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(Huffington Post)   Just for fun, let's take a peek at some high-level emails that were flying back and forth around the Lehman Bros. offices just before the crash of '08   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 267
    More: Scary, emails  
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33715 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2012 at 4:26 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 10:52:36 AM  
has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.
 
2012-05-07 11:04:42 AM  
Darn Mr. Obama and his infernal time machine!
 
2012-05-07 11:17:03 AM  

FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?


THIS. All of the memos, emails, and presentations don't mean a damn thing if no one is held accountable for their actions.
 
2012-05-07 11:21:20 AM  

FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.


Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.
 
2012-05-07 11:22:26 AM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-05-07 11:55:47 AM  
Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.
 
2012-05-07 12:15:24 PM  

MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.


i found that part quite disturbing.
 
2012-05-07 12:34:07 PM  
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. When bad men walk free something is wrong. It doesn't matter whether or not someone thought to make a rule specific to the situation or not. People should be held accountable for their actions.
 
2012-05-07 12:45:21 PM  
Someday I'm going to become a banker so I don't have to be held responsible for my bad decisions.
 
2012-05-07 01:22:13 PM  
And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?
 
2012-05-07 01:27:00 PM  

MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.


It is as if the comments section of any given Gawker website was running an investment bank.
 
2012-05-07 01:29:07 PM  

Serious Black: Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.


Do you have any evidence of that?
 
2012-05-07 01:30:17 PM  
It wasn't illegal at the time, so no jail time. But, we CAN tax and regulate the living f**k out of the greedy bastards, like preventing the bastards from shorting a product that they created and requiring C-level executives remain liable for the company for ten years after service.
 
2012-05-07 01:31:31 PM  
goo.gl
 
2012-05-07 01:35:24 PM  

kingoomieiii: Serious Black: Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.

Do you have any evidence of that?


Yes! Common sense!

/that video had me rolling on the floor for an hour
 
2012-05-07 01:38:35 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: It wasn't illegal at the time, so no jail time. But, we CAN tax and regulate the living f**k out of the greedy bastards, like preventing the bastards from shorting a product that they created and requiring C-level executives remain liable for the company for ten years after service.


That sounds like communism to me, you red devil.
 
2012-05-07 01:38:41 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: It wasn't illegal at the time, so no jail time. But, we CAN tax and regulate the living f**k out of the greedy bastards, like preventing the bastards from shorting a product that they created and requiring C-level executives remain liable for the company for ten years after service.


I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws and you're saying these idiots can drive a major company into the ground costing investors to lose BILLIONS in value and...nothing happens?

trust me. there's always something they can be charged with. someone wants to get 'em badly enough...they can be brought up on charges of something or other.
 
2012-05-07 01:41:39 PM  

Jackson Herring: [goo.gl image 600x446]


One of those barrels of food is inside that dog, intact.
 
2012-05-07 01:43:54 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: [goo.gl image 600x446]

One of those barrels of food is inside that dog, intact.


Silly dog, all of those barrels contain cat food

cat fud
 
2012-05-07 01:48:55 PM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-05-07 01:50:57 PM  

Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?


Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.
 
2012-05-07 01:51:51 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.


so basically our only recourse is...murder?
 
2012-05-07 01:52:37 PM  

Weaver95: Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.

so basically our only recourse is...murder?


As they said just before the French Revolution - 'Oui'.
 
2012-05-07 01:55:22 PM  

Weaver95: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: It wasn't illegal at the time, so no jail time. But, we CAN tax and regulate the living f**k out of the greedy bastards, like preventing the bastards from shorting a product that they created and requiring C-level executives remain liable for the company for ten years after service.

I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws and you're saying these idiots can drive a major company into the ground costing investors to lose BILLIONS in value and...nothing happens?

trust me. there's always something they can be charged with. someone wants to get 'em badly enough...they can be brought up on charges of something or other.


Does your bank account have 7 figures? Does your bank account in the Caymans have 7 or 8 figures? Than laws apply to you. don't you know how this works?
 
2012-05-07 02:09:23 PM  
goo.gl
 
2012-05-07 02:30:38 PM  
FTFA: Most important, the cache dispels the myth that Dick Fuld, chief executive officer of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., and his close associates were unaware of the risks their business faced in 2007 and 2008.

So, I have to wonder where Mr. Dick Fluid is right now...

/probably not in jail
//probably not on skid row, either
 
2012-05-07 02:33:13 PM  
I became friends with a CEO once (as an IT guy who hobbies in home A/V distribution, i'm quite the nice pet). I asked him after he retired why CEOs make such an exorbitant amount of money. He replied, "CEOs must assume a large risk as head of a company. He or she can be sued or held liable for the errs of his or her company."

Totally. Not. Farking. True.


I have yet to see an executive of Lehman Bros or other company with such gross negligence be reduced to "middle class".
 
2012-05-07 02:33:46 PM  

Tigger: Weaver95: Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.

so basically our only recourse is...murder?

As they said just before the French Revolution - 'Oui'.


Sad thing is, with you having posted that, someone could (if their panties are twisted tight enough) go after you for inciting violence and have you thrown in jail. Or at least make your life hell.

/now, when is the mothership coming to beam me off this rock??
 
2012-05-07 02:35:07 PM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-05-07 02:35:50 PM  

Weaver95: these idiots can drive a major company into the ground costing investors to lose BILLIONS in value and...nothing happens?

trust me. there's always something they can be charged with. someone wants to get 'em badly enough...they can be brought up on charges of something or other.


That's the sort of government regulation that is killing jobs!
 
2012-05-07 02:40:03 PM  

Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.


Isn't fraud illegal?
 
2012-05-07 03:03:04 PM  

sweetmelissa31: [j.wigflip.com image 460x600]


something something fulda gap
 
2012-05-07 03:33:27 PM  

timujin: Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.

Isn't fraud illegal?


It is for the pleb class.

These are job creators, however
 
2012-05-07 04:25:44 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.


as part of the bankruptcy and ensuing litigation a big report was made by an investigator for the bankrupt company that presented a laundry list of colorable claims against lehman executives and their auditors (E&Y i think). no-one has done a thing to act on or further investigate those claims though...
 
Bf+
2012-05-07 04:33:50 PM  

Tigger: Weaver95: Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.

so basically our only recourse is...murder?

As they said just before the French Revolution - 'Oui'.




4.bp.blogspot.com
Ceci.
 
2012-05-07 04:34:43 PM  
It-it- the f - it -flam - flames. Flames, on the side of my face, breathing-breathl- heaving breaths. Heaving breaths... Heathing...
 
2012-05-07 04:34:59 PM  

Tigger: As they said just before the French Revolution - 'Oui'.


I volunteer to drive a tumbril.
 
2012-05-07 04:36:21 PM  
img706.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-07 04:36:51 PM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-05-07 04:37:21 PM  

Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws


Huh?
 
2012-05-07 04:37:53 PM  

theorellior: Tigger: As they said just before the French Revolution - 'Oui'.

I volunteer to drive a tumbril.


I want to drive the Zamboni!!



// wait... what are we doing now?
 
2012-05-07 04:39:35 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?


Penndot is notorious for road construction zones that you literally cannot navigate without breaking traffic laws. fortunuately, MOST state cops understand that Penndot is pure evil and as long as you aren't being a complete dick hole about it, they don't bother you.
 
2012-05-07 04:40:37 PM  
i.imgur.com

Makes you wonder what the Big Education administrators are talking about with each other right now.

A massive crash is coming, and no doubt college administrators around the globe are squeezing every million they can pocket for themselves before things go straight to hell globally.
 
2012-05-07 04:40:39 PM  

This one is full of gems... mostly about nuking California from orbit.


upload.wikimedia.org

Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
 
2012-05-07 04:41:24 PM  

jjwars1: I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. When bad men walk free something is wrong. It doesn't matter whether or not someone thought to make a rule specific to the situation or not. People should be held accountable for their actions.


I can't quote specific text because I'm on my phone, but the part about bad men going free is why I am losing faith in our country. While I agree people should be held accountable for their actions, we shouldn't base our system of justice on the presumption of people being bad. It seems that more and more people disagree with the notion "it's better that ten guilty men go free than one innocent man be jailed."

Which is sad, since the entire idea of our country is founded on liberty, and the rights of the individual.
 
2012-05-07 04:41:51 PM  

luyseyal: This one is full of gems... mostly about nuking California from orbit.


Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
 
2012-05-07 04:43:20 PM  

Ordinary Genius: Which is sad, since the entire idea of our country is founded on liberty, and the rights of the individual.


yeah, but then we let people try and govern according to 'biblical principal' and concepts like 'innocent till proven guilty' got thrown out the door.

plus there was the whole 'war on drugs' thing. that really thwacked our civil rights in the nuts.
 
2012-05-07 04:43:45 PM  
The comments are just lulzy. "Fannie, Freddie... forced poor banks to make loans...." The country is just doomed.
 
2012-05-07 04:44:41 PM  

Aar1012: timujin: Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.

Isn't fraud illegal?

It is for the pleb class.

These are job creators, however


Couldn't we skin, like, 10 or 20 of these "jobs" and then pay an average salary to about 500 average people to do nothing and still get the same results?
 
2012-05-07 04:44:58 PM  

Crusader: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

THIS. All of the memos, emails, and presentations don't mean a damn thing if no one is held accountable for their actions.


One of the head CIA torturers is doing a national book tour, he admits he tortured people, he is also the guy who destroyed the video tapes that the courts order protected as evidence in many trials.

And you want to know when the bankers are going to be held accountable ? it is never going to happen
 
2012-05-07 04:45:52 PM  
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

:|
 
2012-05-07 04:46:07 PM  
look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms. Don't screw people over and then piss on their heads...not when a lot of the peons in this country are pretty heavily armed.

i'm just sayin that it could happen.
 
2012-05-07 04:46:13 PM  
Just for fun, let's round up these yahoos and brake out the tar and feathers!


/wish we had the collective balls to actually do it
 
2012-05-07 04:46:16 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?


There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.
 
2012-05-07 04:47:58 PM  

jjwars1: I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. When bad men walk free something is wrong. It doesn't matter whether or not someone thought to make a rule specific to the situation or not. People should be held accountable for their actions.


They are held accountable. check how much they paid for lobbyist and the bribes ... err donations to congressman and you can see the amount paid.
 
2012-05-07 04:49:44 PM  

Weaver95: look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms. Don't screw people over and then piss on their heads...not when a lot of the peons in this country are pretty heavily armed.

i'm just sayin that it could happen.


Considering most of these CEOs/companies have the ability to hire out their own heavily trained and armed security forces, or just outright buy the police into their private army - how would you go about this? :p
 
2012-05-07 04:50:56 PM  
Meh, what a biased, cherry picking article. Lehman was looking for capital but they thought the prices offered were too low. They saw home prices and mortgage debt prices deteriorating but they didn't think it would get as bad as it did (obviously).

Funny, the people calling lehman criminals because they didn't foresee the financial crisis that killed them would call goldman sachs criminals because they did foresee the crisis and hedged their risk.

Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?


Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.
 
2012-05-07 04:53:06 PM  

MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.


Welcome to every workplace in America.
 
2012-05-07 04:55:16 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Meh, what a biased, cherry picking article. Lehman was looking for capital but they thought the prices offered were too low. They saw home prices and mortgage debt prices deteriorating but they didn't think it would get as bad as it did (obviously).

Funny, the people calling lehman criminals because they didn't foresee the financial crisis that killed them would call goldman sachs criminals because they did foresee the crisis and hedged their risk.


what about all of the repos they were creating in order to hide their mounting losses for the 3-4 quarters leading up to their final crash? what about them doubling down on their MBS holdings going into the summer of 07 under the assumption that they would be bailed out if things went south?
 
2012-05-07 04:55:16 PM  

Weaver95: look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms. Don't screw people over and then piss on their heads...not when a lot of the peons in this country are pretty heavily armed.

i'm just sayin that it could happen.


Luckily, so far anybody who is stupid enough to think that such a "revenge on their own terms" action is warranted or justified is also apparently too much of a pussy to wipe the cheeto crumbs of his mug, climb out of his mom's basement, and put his revenge fantasies into action.
 
2012-05-07 04:55:27 PM  
"in the same breath as LB should go fungoo themselves!!!"

Holy hell, I haven't heard that word in decades.
 
2012-05-07 04:56:31 PM  
Weaver95: look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms.

I truly, honestly, seriously hope that happens. All it would take is for one or two of these ultra-wealthy, Tuscan-villa-owning bankers to be bludgeoned or shot to death in the street by someone who lost their home or their 401(k), and the malfeasant a-holes on Wall Street would begin to pay attention. Because we've already seen how much they don't fear legal repercussions.
 
2012-05-07 04:56:44 PM  
These people run the world, they will not be held accountable because the ones who could hold them accountable are the same type.
 
2012-05-07 04:57:32 PM  

thomps: summer of 07


summer of 08.
 
2012-05-07 04:57:58 PM  
Frontline has been doing an investigation into this. Here's a link to the shows.

I watched them when they aired and I'm still shaking my head over what these douchebags not only got a way with, but continue to get away with.

/Line them up and shoot them one by one. It's the only way these guys will understand.
 
2012-05-07 04:58:18 PM  
Just confirms what I've known for a long time: Wall St. is where most of the a**hole frat boys end up...the remainder become lawyer/politicians. Yup, these are the "millionaire job creators" the Koch brothers would have you worship.

If these scumbags had any brains, they would beg to be regulated up the wazoo now. They would get to keep their stolen trillions, and as the economy gradually improved, Joe 99% would forget about them. That's what Joseph Kennedy did. He swindled every mook who crossed his path on Wall St. prior to Depression 1.0. When the entire thing imploded, he had himself installed as the first chairmen of the SEC, and then went about outlawing everything he did during his career as a high finance swindler. It was a genius move. He got to keep both the money he stole and he lived to a ripe old age.

This current gang of grifters haven't got 10% of the brain power old Joe had. They are going to keep with the status quo until the lucky ones catch a load of OO buck to the face. You don't even what to know what's going to happen to the unfortunate ones.
 
2012-05-07 04:59:19 PM  

thomps: Debeo Summa Credo: Meh, what a biased, cherry picking article. Lehman was looking for capital but they thought the prices offered were too low. They saw home prices and mortgage debt prices deteriorating but they didn't think it would get as bad as it did (obviously).

Funny, the people calling lehman criminals because they didn't foresee the financial crisis that killed them would call goldman sachs criminals because they did foresee the crisis and hedged their risk.

what about all of the repos they were creating in order to hide their mounting losses for the 3-4 quarters leading up to their final crash? what about them doubling down on their MBS holdings going into the summer of 07 under the assumption that they would be bailed out if things went south?


The repos were them taking advantage of an accounting rule. Not sure if that reaches the level of illegality, after all the repos did comply with GAAP (which has since been changed to close the loophole), but yeah it was a pretty shiatty thing to do.

Doubling down on MBS holdings in 2007? Citation please. In any event, nobody in the financial industy was relying on betting bailed out. The shareholders and senior execs (who held a ton of stock) got crushed in BS, LEH, and AIG.
 
2012-05-07 05:00:01 PM  

Crusader: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

THIS. All of the memos, emails, and presentations don't mean a damn thing if no one is held accountable for their actions.


Is gross negligence a criminal offense? Or should Fuld be facing a massive shareholder suit?
 
2012-05-07 05:01:14 PM  
You don't even what to know what's going to happen to the unfortunate ones.


they need to be raped raped by rabid burros until they are a quivering pile of shredded flesh

These assholes really screwed up the country and they are going to get away with it? They need a dose of street justice.

/likes rape, in this case
 
2012-05-07 05:02:59 PM  

Jackson Herring: sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: [goo.gl image 600x446]

One of those barrels of food is inside that dog, intact.

Silly dog, all of those barrels contain cat food

cat fud


I think there were several cats, and he/she/it ate all of them.
 
2012-05-07 05:03:01 PM  

Weaver95: look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms. Don't screw people over and then piss on their heads...not when a lot of the peons in this country are pretty heavily armed.

i'm just sayin that it could happen.


I'm with you...but think about it. A large percentage of the voters will be perfectly willing to cast a vote in November for one of these arrogant insiders who prides himself on destroying perfectly sound businesses. It's pretty much hopeless. The American people have gotten that dumb.
 
2012-05-07 05:03:09 PM  

Bio-nic: downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?

There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.


Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

I understand the sheer majority of drivers go 5 over, and cops almost always look the other way until you approach 10-ish over.

I don't though (because by and large, our ancient streets aren't too safe to speed on).
 
2012-05-07 05:03:45 PM  
I love the argument that they have to be paid more than your average nobody since "how will we attract top talent?"

If this is top talent they need better HR.

My high school students sound exactly like this. We shud get A's cause were ausome sauce!!!!!
 
2012-05-07 05:04:02 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.


oh there's over 10k laws on the books, not counting tons of rules, regulations and whatnot at the state level. if we wanted to push it, we could find something they did wrong.
 
2012-05-07 05:04:21 PM  
It occurs to me that if this type of douchebaggery happened in my father's era, he and his like-minded friends would have dragged these a-holes out of their Wall St. offices by their faces and Beat.The.Living.shiat. out of them for their irresponsible behavior. Crimes committed or not. This is partly what made them the "Greatest Generation"
 
2012-05-07 05:05:05 PM  
 
2012-05-07 05:06:07 PM  
img716.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-07 05:06:46 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: The repos were them taking advantage of an accounting rule. Not sure if that reaches the level of illegality, after all the repos did comply with GAAP (which has since been changed to close the loophole), but yeah it was a pretty shiatty thing to do.


the repos did not comply with GAAP, they were determined to have been created solely for the purpose of manipulating financial information. and senior executives were aware of this because one of their VPs blew the whistle on the practice to both them and their auditors but was ignored.

Debeo Summa Credo: Doubling down on MBS holdings in 2007? Citation please.


my citation is the valukas report, which gives multiple citations for instances where Fuld expressed a sincere belief that the government would step in to help lehman were things to go south, so the upside potential of the market recovering outweighed the potential collapse.
 
2012-05-07 05:07:25 PM  
They have to have picked the dumbest shiat they could find out of everything. I mean, I expexted dumb from financial sec. CEOs but goddamn.

I wouldn't team up with someone writing at that level for a doubles game of MtG, much less put them at the helm of the farking global economy.
 
2012-05-07 05:08:14 PM  
Anyone else go through the directory of pdf files and look for anything worth reading?

I found one doc where they just went through & changed the performance numbers in pen, like a teacher marking a rough draft. "No no. That's too low. This number looks better."
 
2012-05-07 05:10:41 PM  

downstairs: Bio-nic: downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?

There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.

Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

I understand the sheer majority of drivers go 5 over, and cops almost always look the other way until you approach 10-ish over.

I don't though (because by and large, our ancient streets aren't too safe to speed on).


Have some dirt on your plate? Driving with an obscured tag.
Driving below the speed limit under "normal" conditions? Checking for the safety of the drivers.
Driving at night? Checking for impairment.

It doesn't matter if it's LEGAL - it's a JUSTIFICATION.
 
2012-05-07 05:13:09 PM  

elffster: These assholes really screwed up the country and they are going to get away with it?


Yes. Yes they are.

If the angry shouts of the mob get so loud that someone's head is going to roll, they will throw some middle manager scapegoat out and that will be the end of it. We will never get any meaningful reform out of the financial sector because Socialism.
 
2012-05-07 05:13:38 PM  

schief2: [img716.imageshack.us image 640x480]


According to Google: 呆氣
 
2012-05-07 05:15:33 PM  

thomps: Debeo Summa Credo: The repos were them taking advantage of an accounting rule. Not sure if that reaches the level of illegality, after all the repos did comply with GAAP (which has since been changed to close the loophole), but yeah it was a pretty shiatty thing to do.

the repos did not comply with GAAP, they were determined to have been created solely for the purpose of manipulating financial information. and senior executives were aware of this because one of their VPs blew the whistle on the practice to both them and their auditors but was ignored.


Then why did the FASB change sale accounting rules to eliminate the excess collateral loophole that Lehman used? Why did their auditors sign off on it? It's high hurdle to reach criminality when your financials technically comply with GAAP.

Debeo Summa Credo: Doubling down on MBS holdings in 2007? Citation please.

my citation is the valukas report, which gives multiple citations for instances where Fuld expressed a sincere belief that the government would step in to help lehman were things to go south, so the upside potential of the market recovering outweighed the potential collapse.


Fuld may have expected a similar Bear Stearns like bailout for Lehman, but are you telling me that they were actually going LONG RMBS in 2008 or 2008? The Bear Stearns bailout went pretty shiattily for senior management, their stock price dropped by 90% or something and they lost their jobs. Even if he did expect a governmental bailout that would protect his creditors, Fuld wouldn't have taken on additional risk that would increase the likelyhood of that bailout that would have been professionally and economically catastrophic for him anyway.
 
2012-05-07 05:17:34 PM  
So basically these companies are populated by frat boys? Kinda what I thought.
 
2012-05-07 05:17:43 PM  

timujin: Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.

Isn't fraud illegal?


Not for the past few years. SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to convict Jeff Skilling of "depriving shareholders of honest efforts" or something similar (Enron crook)

So. Vote republican and appoint more criminals to the bench
 
2012-05-07 05:18:02 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Rent it. Watch it. Weep.
 
2012-05-07 05:18:18 PM  

Magnanimous_J: elffster: These assholes really screwed up the country and they are going to get away with it?

Yes. Yes they are.

If the angry shouts of the mob get so loud that someone's head is going to roll, they will throw some middle manager scapegoat out and that will be the end of it. We will never get any meaningful reform out of the financial sector because Socialism.


If they were gonna toss out a sacrificial lamb the woulda done it at the height of the occ protests. For whatever reason, TPTB are feeling more bludgeon-y than conciliatory.
 
2012-05-07 05:19:51 PM  
Someone at least managed to punch Fuld in the face right after LB bancruptcy announced.
 
2012-05-07 05:20:11 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.


If the represented financial products that were risky as A+ there are still some regulations for securities fraud. There are also some grounds for just outright fraud.

The really amazing cases are the banks that were outsourcing mortgage documents to 'signing warehouses.' People were paid $6 an hour to sign mortgage & bank officer names to documents. Boxes and boxes of mortgages and financial papers signed by temp workers in rented office space.
I know different subject, but related.

A few luckily people have been foreclosed upon only to find that the bank can't figure out who owns what because there a papers signed by *BANK NAME HERE* (not kidding. It really says that). These people may live in their homes for free for decades.
 
2012-05-07 05:21:01 PM  
If what they did wasn't illegal when they did it, I hope to hell it is now. I understand the desire for revenge here, but I think a worthier goal is to try to ensure this kind of clusterfark never happens again.
 
2012-05-07 05:21:32 PM  

downstairs: Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.


suspicion of drunk driving, resisting arrest, failure to obey posted traffic signs.

not joking.
 
2012-05-07 05:21:42 PM  

Bio-nic: downstairs: Bio-nic: downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?

There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.

Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

I understand the sheer majority of drivers go 5 over, and cops almost always look the other way until you approach 10-ish over.

I don't though (because by and large, our ancient streets aren't too safe to speed on).

Have some dirt on your plate? Driving with an obscured tag.
Driving below the speed limit under "normal" conditions? Checking for the safety of the drivers.
Driving at night? Checking for impairment.

It doesn't matter if it's LEGAL - it's a JUSTIFICATION.


Oh, you can think of more than that.

How about having a sticker on your window?
How about having an unrepaired ding on your car?
How about having insufficient tread on your tires?
Did you start using your turn signal at least 500 feet before the intersection?

A couple of decades ago, Minneapolis cops started randomly stopping black drivers to check IDs. The Minnesota Supreme Court said not to do it. So they started citing black drivers for anything they could think of, and letting them go with a warning if they weren't wanted or carrying drugs. Some reporter made a list of everything people were being stopped for. The one I remember the best was having too many mirrors on the car, but all the ones I listed were used too.
 
2012-05-07 05:21:55 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Then why did the FASB change sale accounting rules to eliminate the excess collateral loophole that Lehman used? Why did their auditors sign off on it? It's high hurdle to reach criminality when your financials technically comply with GAAP.


well we'll see, the SEC started investigating the repo 105 treatment after its use at lehman was exposed, and E&Y is currently facing fraud charges from the NYAG over its assistance in lehman's use of it.

Debeo Summa Credo: Fuld may have expected a similar Bear Stearns like bailout for Lehman, but are you telling me that they were actually going LONG RMBS in 2008 or 2008? The Bear Stearns bailout went pretty shiattily for senior management, their stock price dropped by 90% or something and they lost their jobs. Even if he did expect a governmental bailout that would protect his creditors, Fuld wouldn't have taken on additional risk that would increase the likelyhood of that bailout that would have been professionally and economically catastrophic for him anyway.


i'm almost positive that they did continue to go long MBS post-bear. fuld was super optimistic about a recovery. he wasn't banking on a bailout as a preferred exit but saw it as a great safety net as he worked on other capitalization avenues.
 
2012-05-07 05:26:35 PM  
well.


is everyone happy....being a serf? i hope at some point we wake up and realize what is happening.
 
2012-05-07 05:29:00 PM  

Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?


They're all filled with OWS protesters.
 
2012-05-07 05:30:26 PM  

Weaver95: downstairs: Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

suspicion of drunk driving, resisting arrest, failure to obey posted traffic signs.

not joking.


Reasons for stopping, not reasons for arrest.

I guess I'm lucky to live in a city where every cop either:

1. Doesn't care to do their job, and spends half the shift sleeping in their car.

2. Cares more about murder and stuff.

Rarely does anyone get pulled over for DUI here.
 
2012-05-07 05:30:58 PM  

bionicjoe: Debeo Summa Credo: Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.

If the represented financial products that were risky as A+ there are still some regulations for securities fraud. There are also some grounds for just outright fraud.


Not if they really thought these were good assets. These banks didn't go under because they sold all their risky assets. They went under because they held on to risk that bit them in the ass. Why did they hold on to it? Because they thought they were good assets.

The really amazing cases are the banks that were outsourcing mortgage documents to 'signing warehouses.' People were paid $6 an hour to sign mortgage & bank officer names to documents. Boxes and boxes of mortgages and financial papers signed by temp workers in rented office space.
I know different subject, but related.


This is a technical point and bad practice, but I really don't see any reason for outrage. 99.99% of people being foreclosed upon were being foreclosed upon because they were many months behind on their mortgage. Who cares whether a $6 per hour clerk signed the docs rather than a lawyer. And the other .01% should be made whole. Maybe its because I' live in the northeast where liberal laws make it very difficult to foreclose, but I just can't see a situation where someone who is current on their mortgage could actually get kicked out of their house. The law gives mortgagors a half dozen chances to go to court to get things straigtened out before foreclosing.

A few luckily people have been foreclosed upon only to find that the bank can't figure out who owns what because there a papers signed by *BANK NAME HERE* (not kidding. It really says that). These people may live in their homes for free for decades.

The bank probably knows who owns it because the mortgage payments were being sent to pools to pay off certain RMBS bonds that were held by investors (401ks, insurers, pensions), but they don't have the legal documentation to prove it in court, so the RMBS bond suffers.

So those 'lucky people' are stealing.
 
2012-05-07 05:33:59 PM  

thomps: Debeo Summa Credo: Then why did the FASB change sale accounting rules to eliminate the excess collateral loophole that Lehman used? Why did their auditors sign off on it? It's high hurdle to reach criminality when your financials technically comply with GAAP.

well we'll see, the SEC started investigating the repo 105 treatment after its use at lehman was exposed, and E&Y is currently facing fraud charges from the NYAG over its assistance in lehman's use of it.


Okay. Interesting about fraud charges for E&Y.


Debeo Summa Credo: Fuld may have expected a similar Bear Stearns like bailout for Lehman, but are you telling me that they were actually going LONG RMBS in 2008 or 2008? The Bear Stearns bailout went pretty shiattily for senior management, their stock price dropped by 90% or something and they lost their jobs. Even if he did expect a governmental bailout that would protect his creditors, Fuld wouldn't have taken on additional risk that would increase the likelyhood of that bailout that would have been professionally and economically catastrophic for him anyway.

i'm almost positive that they did continue to go long MBS post-bear. fuld was super optimistic about a recovery. he wasn't banking on a bailout as a preferred exit but saw it as a great safety net as he worked on other capitalization avenues.


Alright, I'd be shocked if it were so.
 
2012-05-07 05:36:44 PM  

thomps: Debeo Summa Credo: Then why did the FASB change sale accounting rules to eliminate the excess collateral loophole that Lehman used? Why did their auditors sign off on it? It's high hurdle to reach criminality when your financials technically comply with GAAP.

well we'll see, the SEC started investigating the repo 105 treatment after its use at lehman was exposed, and E&Y is currently facing fraud charges from the NYAG over its assistance in lehman's use of it.

Debeo Summa Credo: Fuld may have expected a similar Bear Stearns like bailout for Lehman, but are you telling me that they were actually going LONG RMBS in 2008 or 2008? The Bear Stearns bailout went pretty shiattily for senior management, their stock price dropped by 90% or something and they lost their jobs. Even if he did expect a governmental bailout that would protect his creditors, Fuld wouldn't have taken on additional risk that would increase the likelyhood of that bailout that would have been professionally and economically catastrophic for him anyway.

i'm almost positive that they did continue to go long MBS post-bear. fuld was super optimistic about a recovery. he wasn't banking on a bailout as a preferred exit but saw it as a great safety net as he worked on other capitalization avenues.


Part of me is also thinking that CEOs were looking at the carcasses and carcasses-to-be of Big Financials all over Wall St and (believing in their hubristic way that surely they'd come out OK), started salivating at all those workers and corporate pieces they could buy for 80 cents on the dollar and 25 cents on the dollar respectively.

Like, if Fuld believed Lehman could weather the storm, they could buy large sections of whoever failed, and hire some of their workforce, for far cheaper than they would have pre-September 2008.
 
2012-05-07 05:38:45 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.




You would have voted to acquit at Nuremburg.
 
2012-05-07 05:38:45 PM  

luyseyal: This one is full of gems... mostly about nuking California from orbit.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 148x218]

Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room


THIS! That movie is awesome and I watch it every now and then because it is well made.

Also checkout Startup.com

Both of those movies do a really good job of showcasing hubris at it's highest level. Enron, they were just farking evil. They completely cooked their books and couldn't even produce a basic balance sheet (Business School 1301 students can) and all their lawyers and all the auditors and all the investment bankers buying into their scheme to defraud wouldn't call them out. But they got rich doing so.

The movie Statup.com follows a small Dot Com that raised and pissed their way through something like $165M in a year and a half with absolutely nothing to show for their efforts other than a string of broken relationships. The founders thought they were great business men yet they knew nothing about running a company other than raising and blowing through money. Dumbasses built a web application but didn't have any idea about requirements or testing and of course the site didn't do what it needed to do to earn money. The investors put money into a company with no business plan on how to build and sell a product. Typical Dot Com nonsense.

The little start up company I've been with the last 13 years raised a total of $45M in all that time and we've been paying dividends to our investors religiously. We've been profitable for 6 years in a down economy. We have a proven business model and accelerating revenues. Everyone makes a decent salary with modest bonuses each year, yet no one's gotten rich (at least until our stock is worth something).

Hey, maybe that's why our little company hasn't imploded yet. You can't spend more than you can earn. Ooh, that's something they must not teach at business school anymore.

/sarcasm off
 
2012-05-07 05:40:19 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

suspicion of drunk driving, resisting arrest, failure to obey posted traffic signs.

not joking.

Reasons for stopping, not reasons for arrest.

I guess I'm lucky to live in a city where every cop either:

1. Doesn't care to do their job, and spends half the shift sleeping in their car.

2. Cares more about murder and stuff.

Rarely does anyone get pulled over for DUI here.


did you know you can be arrested for resisting arrest? think about that for a moment. that's the sort of country we've become.
 
2012-05-07 05:42:31 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: So those 'lucky people' are stealing.


To quote you, "you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime." Tiny fists, pound away.
 
2012-05-07 05:42:55 PM  

Jacobin: timujin: Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.

Isn't fraud illegal?

Not for the past few years. SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to convict Jeff Skilling of "depriving shareholders of honest efforts" or something similar (Enron crook)


well that's depressing
 
2012-05-07 05:45:00 PM  
Their lobbyists got the regulations lifted just so they WOULDN'T go to jail for pulling this shiat. That was the plan and it worked.

And they pay a much lower tax rate than most of the people in this thread.

And there's a major political party in the US that wants to make things even better for them. Angry yet?
 
2012-05-07 05:45:09 PM  

swaxhog: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x326]

Rent it. Watch it. Weep Get worked up into a murderous rage.


============

Fixed it for you.
 
2012-05-07 05:46:18 PM  

Bio-nic: Considering most of these CEOs/companies have the ability to hire out their own heavily trained and armed security forces, or just outright buy the police into their private army - how would you go about this?
:p


www.qsmsilencers.com

With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way....

If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....
 
2012-05-07 05:47:10 PM  

Weaver95: did you know you can be arrested for resisting arrest? think about that for a moment. that's the sort of country we've become.


So you're cool with people resisting a legitimate arrest? Yeah, if a cop tries to put me in cuffs... I'm going to shut up, so what he says, and let my lawyer take it from there.
 
2012-05-07 05:47:28 PM  
As long as there's something to distract the commoners, i.e. American Idol, DTWS, pro sports, the latest celebrity "scandal", nothing is going to change.

/Bread and circuses for the masses
//working for the man
 
2012-05-07 05:50:03 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: did you know you can be arrested for resisting arrest? think about that for a moment. that's the sort of country we've become.

So you're cool with people resisting a legitimate arrest? Yeah, if a cop tries to put me in cuffs... I'm going to shut up, so what he says, and let my lawyer take it from there.


He's not talking about it as an additional charge (like DUI and resisting arrest), he's talking about it as the only charge. In that you're arrested for resisting the arrest to arrest you for resisting the arrest to arrest you for...
 
2012-05-07 05:53:33 PM  

Dr Dreidel: thomps: Debeo Summa Credo: Then why did the FASB change sale accounting rules to eliminate the excess collateral loophole that Lehman used? Why did their auditors sign off on it? It's high hurdle to reach criminality when your financials technically comply with GAAP.

well we'll see, the SEC started investigating the repo 105 treatment after its use at lehman was exposed, and E&Y is currently facing fraud charges from the NYAG over its assistance in lehman's use of it.

Debeo Summa Credo: Fuld may have expected a similar Bear Stearns like bailout for Lehman, but are you telling me that they were actually going LONG RMBS in 2008 or 2008? The Bear Stearns bailout went pretty shiattily for senior management, their stock price dropped by 90% or something and they lost their jobs. Even if he did expect a governmental bailout that would protect his creditors, Fuld wouldn't have taken on additional risk that would increase the likelyhood of that bailout that would have been professionally and economically catastrophic for him anyway.

i'm almost positive that they did continue to go long MBS post-bear. fuld was super optimistic about a recovery. he wasn't banking on a bailout as a preferred exit but saw it as a great safety net as he worked on other capitalization avenues.

Part of me is also thinking that CEOs were looking at the carcasses and carcasses-to-be of Big Financials all over Wall St and (believing in their hubristic way that surely they'd come out OK), started salivating at all those workers and corporate pieces they could buy for 80 cents on the dollar and 25 cents on the dollar respectively.

Like, if Fuld believed Lehman could weather the storm, they could buy large sections of whoever failed, and hire some of their workforce, for far cheaper than they would have pre-September 2008.


which is also pretty hilarious considering the massive bargain that barclays got for lehman's corpse. basically gave them a ready-built american presence for pennies on the dollar.
 
2012-05-07 05:54:06 PM  
Why do you all hate America and the free market?

Remember, these guys are doing God's work.
 
2012-05-07 05:57:09 PM  

Aarontology: Someday I'm going to become a banker so I don't have to be held responsible for my bad decisions.


Or a Meteorologist like me ;)
 
2012-05-07 05:58:10 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: did you know you can be arrested for resisting arrest? think about that for a moment. that's the sort of country we've become.

So you're cool with people resisting a legitimate arrest? Yeah, if a cop tries to put me in cuffs... I'm going to shut up, so what he says, and let my lawyer take it from there.


no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.
 
2012-05-07 05:58:13 PM  
And it all was started by people who didn't pay for their mortgages.
 
2012-05-07 06:00:54 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: The bank probably knows who owns it because the mortgage payments were being sent to pools to pay off certain RMBS bonds that were held by investors (401ks, insurers, pensions), but they don't have the legal documentation to prove it in court, so the RMBS bond suffers.

So those 'lucky people' are stealing.


Many of these banks used predatory lending to give a loan they knew was never going to be paid back.
Who cares who signed it? The farking courts care. That's why when I got my house I signed my documents with a lawyer representing the mortgage company. That's how it's done. The banks were paying people to sign thousands of documents per day because there was no humanly way to review and process the loans fast enough to shore up their bullshiat holdings.

Then when the shiat hit the fan the banks started harassing the hell out of people that had lost their jobs and savings. They were giving absolutely throwing the book at these people not because they were wrong, but because the bank was up shiat creek. A few lucky people who put up a fight and didn't take more of the banks' shiat found out how unscrupulous and criminal the banks had been.

Just because your behind in house payments doesn't make you a criminal. Fighting a bank in the courts is part of the legal process, and the banks screwed themselves by not having their paperwork in order.
The bank signed away hundreds of thousands of dollars without putting their name on basic mortgage documents. Who is stealing and who is a corporation of dumbasses?
 
2012-05-07 06:01:05 PM  

Aarontology: Someday I'm going to become a banker so I don't have to be held responsible for my bad decisions.


It's better than being a teacher. Because you can fark everyone and get away with it!
 
2012-05-07 06:01:40 PM  

Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.


Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?
 
2012-05-07 06:02:00 PM  
Can't we just kill them already? Work like their maids, their cleaners, their drivers, their bodyguards, wait for the right moment and a kick neck-snapping.

justinsomnia.org
 
2012-05-07 06:02:48 PM  

CygnusDarius: Can't we just kill them already? Work like their maids, their cleaners, their drivers, their bodyguards, wait for the right moment and a kick quick neck-snapping.

[justinsomnia.org image 380x159]

 
2012-05-07 06:08:08 PM  

CygnusDarius: Can't we just kill them already? Work like their maids, their cleaners, their drivers, their bodyguards, wait for the right moment and a kick neck-snapping.

[justinsomnia.org image 380x159]


You could. Most of the rest of us don't speak Spanish well enough to get in close like that.
 
2012-05-07 06:09:57 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: The shareholders and senior execs (who held a ton of stock) got crushed in BS, LEH, and AIG.


That's true for the senior execs if "Crushed" now means "walked away with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars".

Bear Sterns CEO James Cayne: Sold stake for $61 million

Lehman Brother CEO Dick Fuld: Paid approximately $500 million in the 7 years prior to the bankruptcy ( that's the estimate that doesn't include his unsold shares at the time of the collapse.)

AIG CEO Martin J. Sullivan: $25 million in severance pay

We could only hope to be so lucky as to be crushed like that.
 
2012-05-07 06:11:56 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?


it happens to a lot of OWS protesters. they get arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else.
 
2012-05-07 06:14:30 PM  

downstairs: Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest.


Keep in mind that 'resisting arrest' includes refusal to comply with detainment or attempt to escape police control. If a policeman thinks you're drunk in public and you refuse to talk to him or wait when he tells you to, that's resisting arrest even if you're not drunk or committing any other crime.
 
2012-05-07 06:14:32 PM  

Weaver95: so basically our only recourse is...murder?


This! It's crazy, but this is the role i see the Tea Party handling for society, unfortunately they're probably only interested in blowing up abortion clinics, gay weddings or mosques. If our laws can't touch these guys.. then you get vigilante justice.
 
2012-05-07 06:14:43 PM  

Weaver95: downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?

it happens to a lot of OWS protesters. they get arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else.


No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

Again, we can debate if someone should be arrested, or if cops are lying, all that.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?
 
2012-05-07 06:14:55 PM  
Sticky Hands Smartest
Funniest
2012-05-07 06:08:08 PM


CygnusDarius: Can't we just kill them already? Work like their maids, their cleaners, their drivers, their bodyguards, wait for the right moment and a kick neck-snapping.

[justinsomnia.org image 380x159]

You could. Most of the rest of us don't speak Spanish well enough to get in close like that.


So you're nominating Cygnus Darius to get in there with piano wire?

I did corporate law for a few years. Working with i-bankers and all that. Nice wonderful warm people.
 
2012-05-07 06:16:39 PM  

downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.


and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.
 
2012-05-07 06:19:03 PM  

Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.


[Citation Needed]

Seriously. Sounds like BS, at least back it up with an example.
 
2012-05-07 06:21:41 PM  
And just think, all the money that was "lost" in 2008 went somewhere. Couldn't have ended up with these jokers, they're all a bunch of dumbasses, aren't they?
 
2012-05-07 06:23:42 PM  

Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.


Pretty Much This. They arrest you for resisting, or "disorderly conduct", or "interfering with a police officer". They have a lot of judgment call laws that the police can use to arrest or detain you for pretty much anything.
 
2012-05-07 06:23:44 PM  
If the public is the disturbance, what is the public disturbing?
 
2012-05-07 06:23:52 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?


Holy farking shiat! I think this guy was really and actually born yesterday. holy farking shiat!
 
2012-05-07 06:25:48 PM  

Avery614: With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way....
If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....


They are greatly outnumbered. How come the crazy militia guys can't focus on people like this, instead of the gubmint and people in black helicopters?

I know, it's probably too complex for them. And not nearly as interesting as most of the conspiracy theories.
 
2012-05-07 06:26:23 PM  

Nick Nostril: And just think, all the money that was "lost" in 2008 went somewhere. Couldn't have ended up with these jokers, they're all a bunch of dumbasses, aren't they?


If everyone and every country is broke or near broke, then it's all a sham. But, then the question is: why?
 
2012-05-07 06:26:47 PM  

Weaver95: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: It wasn't illegal at the time, so no jail time. But, we CAN tax and regulate the living f**k out of the greedy bastards, like preventing the bastards from shorting a product that they created and requiring C-level executives remain liable for the company for ten years after service.

I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws and you're saying these idiots can drive a major company into the ground costing investors to lose BILLIONS in value and...nothing happens?

trust me. there's always something they can be charged with. someone wants to get 'em badly enough...they can be brought up on charges of something or other.


You're such a totalitarian asshole.
 
2012-05-07 06:27:52 PM  
Avery614: With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way.... If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....

The only part of your plan that I have a problem with is the notion that you could "kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on.... " I think after the second Wall Street f#cker got a pink mist haircut from 500 yards away they'd put it together. Although I hasten to add that despite this minor quibble I am in no way objecting to this proposed course of action.
 
2012-05-07 06:28:20 PM  
http://philly.barstoolsports.com/around-barstool/bike-cop-shoves-guy- t hen-arrests-him-for-resisting-arrest/

There is one. Just google resisting arrest arrests, this shiat is too numerous for someone to be seriously asking if this is possible and how it happens.
 
2012-05-07 06:29:16 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.

[Citation Needed]

Seriously. Sounds like BS, at least back it up with an example.


Here is an example
Link
 
2012-05-07 06:29:23 PM  
yeah but put soda in your water cup at mc donalds and your ass is going up the river
 
2012-05-07 06:30:55 PM  

thomps: Dr Dreidel: thomps: i'm almost positive that they did continue to go long MBS post-bear. fuld was super optimistic about a recovery. he wasn't banking on a bailout as a preferred exit but saw it as a great safety net as he worked on other capitalization avenues.

Part of me is also thinking that CEOs were looking at the carcasses and carcasses-to-be of Big Financials all over Wall St and (believing in their hubristic way that surely they'd come out OK), started salivating at all those workers and corporate pieces they could buy for 80 cents on the dollar and 25 cents on the dollar respectively.

Like, if Fuld believed Lehman could weather the storm, they could buy large sections of whoever failed, and hire some of their workforce, for far cheaper than they would have pre-September 2008.

which is also pretty hilarious considering the massive bargain that barclays got for lehman's corpse. basically gave them a ready-built american presence for pennies on the dollar.


I'm not surprised. These guys all thought THEY were the geniuses who would make it out alive to feast on the remains, when it's plain fact that there were going to be winners and losers.

They're just as subject to hubris, groupthink, bad decision making (based on bad intel, decisions made out of self-interest rather than corporate interest, a misreading of their own or market circumstances), and yes, a screwing by process (the circumstances exposed a systemic flaw that not even they recognized) as the rest of us.

Eight figures a year doesn't make your brain special.
 
2012-05-07 06:31:37 PM  
link got thrown out. here is url

http://www.pixiq.com/article/i-was-arrested-covering-the-occupy-miami - evacuation
 
2012-05-07 06:35:08 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.


I agree.

It's also more proof that rich does not equal smart, and that we shouldn't call even the financial heads of large investment banks "financial gurus."
 
2012-05-07 06:35:27 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.

[Citation Needed]

Seriously. Sounds like BS, at least back it up with an example.


Link

Link

Link

and sometimes it can get you killed.... especially if you have mental issues

Link
 
2012-05-07 06:38:03 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.



You would have voted to acquit at Nuremburg.


No, because the Nazis were criminals. See the difference, mr Godwin?
 
2012-05-07 06:38:06 PM  

MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.


Being in IT, I have been privy to see the emails of everybody from the top on down. It seems that the ones at the top are the worst at it.

The last manager I had who reported directly to a SVP never heard of a salutation or a period and did not know what the SHIFT key was for.
 
2012-05-07 06:40:37 PM  

Weaver95: Ordinary Genius: Which is sad, since the entire idea of our country is founded on liberty, and the rights of the individual.

yeah, but then we let people try and govern according to 'biblical principal' and concepts like 'innocent till proven guilty' got thrown out the door.

plus there was the whole 'war on drugs' thing. that really thwacked our civil rights in the nuts.


I agree.
 
2012-05-07 06:42:26 PM  

Avery614: downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.

[Citation Needed]

Seriously. Sounds like BS, at least back it up with an example.

Link

Link

Link

and sometimes it can get you killed.... especially if you have mental issues

Link


thanks dude! I was out grabbing dinner and just got back.
 
2012-05-07 06:42:37 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Cubicle Jockey: Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.



You would have voted to acquit at Nuremburg.

No, because the Nazis were criminals. See the difference, mr Godwin?


Only because they lost.
 
2012-05-07 06:43:58 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.

Being in IT, I have been privy to see the emails of everybody from the top on down. It seems that the ones at the top are the worst at it.

The last manager I had who reported directly to a SVP never heard of a salutation or a period and did not know what the SHIFT key was for.


eh, probably just quickly tapping out from blackberries
 
2012-05-07 06:44:14 PM  
Here's a book about it by a buddy of mine, who was the head ETF trader there:

Street Freak: Money and Madness at Lehman Brothers.

i184.photobucket.com

Really good read.
 
2012-05-07 06:45:48 PM  

Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.


any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?
 
2012-05-07 06:45:51 PM  

someonelse: Debeo Summa Credo: So those 'lucky people' are stealing.

To quote you, "you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime." Tiny fists, pound away.


Oh, I'm not advocating for their arrest or prosecution.

I am in favor of stopping them from stealing and putting the house in the hands of the rightful owners.

I know the banks farked up, but if the bank puts an extra $100 in your account is it yours? If your employer gives you two paychecks accidentally can you say "tough shiat boss it's your mistake", if the clerk give you change for a $20 when you paid with a $10 are you morally entitled to keep the extra? Of course not, and staying in a home that you've stopped paying the mortgage on but haven't been foreclosed on because the servicer cant get the paperwork in order is no more justified than any of the other scenarios. You are taking something that doesn't belong to you.
 
2012-05-07 06:46:17 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: The last manager I had who reported directly to a SVP never heard of a salutation or a period and did not know what the SHIFT key was for.


Duh, it's the key you hold down when composing e-mails that go to shift workers.
 
2012-05-07 06:46:42 PM  

cryinoutloud: Avery614: With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way....
If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....

They are greatly outnumbered. How come the crazy militia guys can't focus on people like this, instead of the gubmint and people in black helicopters?

I know, it's probably too complex for them. And not nearly as interesting as most of the conspiracy theories.



Maybe they know something we don't... paradigms of logic, rationality and sanity that they are...*sigh* They can't even be bothered to figure out who the bad guys are. They remind me of an attack dog or a thug, you just point them at something and yell KILL killer KILL(yo). Just don't expect them to make decent judgement calls, think on their feet, or display good cooperative problem solving skills.
 
2012-05-07 06:49:02 PM  

Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?


The little guy is already not free, and you want to make even more people less free... yes that makes you the bad guy.
 
2012-05-07 06:50:33 PM  

Sticky Hands: Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?

The little guy is already not free, and you want to make even more people less free... yes that makes you the bad guy.


oh c'mon...just 1% more....what can it hurt?
 
2012-05-07 06:55:25 PM  

Weaver95: Sticky Hands: Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?

The little guy is already not free, and you want to make even more people less free... yes that makes you the bad guy.

oh c'mon...just 1% more....what can it hurt?


It might hurt my trickle down dammit!!!!
 
2012-05-07 06:56:54 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I know the banks farked up, but if the bank puts an extra $100 in your account is it yours? .


except in this case, it went something like this:

customer: 'um, excuse me...but you gave me an extra $100 that isn't mine.'
bank: 'I have no idea what you're talking about.'
customer: 'no, really - I want to give it back,'
bank: 'get lost kid, yer bothering me.'
customer: 'no, really - this isn't mine!'
bank: 'I have nothing on record about what you're blathering about. now get the hell outta here.'
customer: 'fine. i'll put this aside.'

[later]

bank: 'hey! you owe us $100. we want it back! with interest!'
customer: 'can you prove you gave me this money?'
bank: 'um...well....you said we gave it to you.'
customer: 'I dont' recall having that conversation.'
bank: 'well...you owe it to us! or we'll SUE!'
courts: 'can you prove you gave him that money?'
bank: 'um...well...no. but we're the BANK!'
courst: 'I don't care. customer, I find you not guilty and you are free to go'
customer: 'thanks!'
bank: 'I hate you.'
 
2012-05-07 06:57:34 PM  

FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.


Jail? Are you kidding? Jail is for little people. Fuld sold his $13 million dollar mansion to his wife for $100 so all those broke assed peasants he created couldn't get it in a lawsuit, and is right now rolling around in a swimming pool full of $100 bills drinking margaritas and laughing at you.

Jail! Really, you guys kill me some times.
 
2012-05-07 06:58:54 PM  

Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?


Because they're reliable campaign contributors. That's...why.
 
2012-05-07 07:08:57 PM  
Meanwhile, millions of Americans will cast their ballot for Mittens Rmoney who is nothing if not everything these asshats aspire to be.
 
2012-05-07 07:11:47 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: Avery614: With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way.... If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....

The only part of your plan that I have a problem with is the notion that you could "kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on.... " I think after the second Wall Street f#cker got a pink mist haircut from 500 yards away they'd put it together. Although I hasten to add that despite this minor quibble I am in no way objecting to this proposed course of action.



Hmmm, my cunning plan.....perhaps if we keep it to 1 per year, you know make a holiday of it, we could off a few more before they catch on. I have to agree with you though, 5 or 6 is probably pushing it in one year....
 
2012-05-07 07:12:27 PM  

xanadian: FTFA: Most important, the cache dispels the myth that Dick Fuld, chief executive officer of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., and his close associates were unaware of the risks their business faced in 2007 and 2008.

So, I have to wonder where Mr. Dick Fluid is right now...

/probably not in jail
//probably not on skid row, either


After Lehman :
`
On November 10, 2008 Fuld transferred his
Florida mansion to his wife Kathleen for $100
in order to protect the house from potential
legal actions against him. They had bought it
four years earlier for $13.56 million.
`
In late March 2009, Fuld had an email sent out
stating that he joined Matrix Advisors, a New
York-based hedge fund.
`
In May 2010, Fuld was registered by the
Financial Industry Regulatory Authority
(FINRA) as employed by Legend Securities, a
securities brokerage and investment banking
firm in New York.
/check out the wiki page this guy - 100% asshole
 
2012-05-07 07:14:36 PM  

Weaver95: thanks dude! I was out grabbing dinner and just got back.


No prob dude, I usually enjoy reading what you have to say and I have stolen your "knowledge is God" for use in conversation so it's all good. ;-)
 
2012-05-07 07:14:59 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

and they also get arrested for resisting arrest.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?

they put down 'resisting arrest' and the process moves merrily along it's way.

[Citation Needed]

Seriously. Sounds like BS, at least back it up with an example.


http://www.fark.com/comments/7088775/Most-awesome-response-ever-after - a-cop-asks-for-a-mans-ID-just-because-he-was-walking-through-a-neighbo rhood-known-as-a-high-crime-area-Expletive-you-thats-for-you-to-figure -out#new


FORT WALTON BEACH - A 47-year-old man was charged April 23 with misdemeanor resisting officer without violence.

According to the Okaloosa County Sheriff's report, a deputy spotted the man walking in the middle of Tilden Avenue, which is known to be a high-crime area.

When the deputy stopped the man and asked for his identification, the man replied, "(Expletive) you, that's for you to figure out."


I can understand why you didn't remember this thread, as it was all the way back on...Saturday.
 
2012-05-07 07:19:36 PM  
img267.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-07 07:21:06 PM  

MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.


There's just something about email that makes people 'tarded. I used to work with people who made their living crafting words for publication and many of them wrote atrocious emails. Punctuation, grammar, and spelling went right out the window. Ironic since, as the IT guy, I cut my teeth typing open gate through gate close gate which evolved to o gate n c gate.
 
2012-05-07 07:21:36 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?

it happens to a lot of OWS protesters. they get arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else.

No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

Again, we can debate if someone should be arrested, or if cops are lying, all that.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?



Ya, I've met quite a few people who were going through the system for that.
 
2012-05-07 07:21:38 PM  

Avery614: Weaver95: thanks dude! I was out grabbing dinner and just got back.

No prob dude, I usually enjoy reading what you have to say and I have stolen your "knowledge is God" for use in conversation so it's all good. ;-)


I found the idea whole idea perverse - you can literally be arrested for nothing more than resisting arrest. now, odds are you could probably get the charge thrown out...but that means lawyers, a court date and at least $2000 worth of effort.

but that's the kind of country we live in now. just sitting in a room somewhere you are probably violating half dozen laws and you don't even know it.
 
2012-05-07 07:23:16 PM  

jtown: MrDebacle: Their e-mail writing skills appear on par with a typical pre-teen.

There's just something about email that makes people 'tarded. I used to work with people who made their living crafting words for publication and many of them wrote atrocious emails. Punctuation, grammar, and spelling went right out the window. Ironic since, as the IT guy, I cut my teeth typing open gate through gate close gate which evolved to o gate n c gate.


It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
 
2012-05-07 07:23:25 PM  

Weaver95: Darth_Lukecash: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Technically, no law was broken. And thanks to a 1987 Supreme court ruling, you can't sue them-but have to enter arbitration-which is not under public preview like the court system.

so basically our only recourse is...murder?


That is such a harsh word.
Think of it as a financial correction.
We simply need to redistribute the family holdings to the next generation a wee bit sooner than planed.
 
2012-05-07 07:26:02 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

It's almost amusing how the current economic shenanigans are almost identical to what Ben Elton wrote in his novel. Great read if you haven't yet.
 
2012-05-07 07:26:36 PM  
turboninjas.com
 
2012-05-07 07:34:39 PM  
*sharpening pitchfork*

*yet again*

;)
 
2012-05-07 07:37:13 PM  
If u let ppl who send emailz like dis manage yo greenz den u gets whut u dizerve!
 
jvl
2012-05-07 07:37:33 PM  
People with 20/20 hindsight would like to jail people who lacked 20/20 foresight.

I saw much of the bubble coming. I was treated as a nutcase, and I completely understood why since my view of the financial risks were so far from mainstream. To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming" I'd just like to say: fark you for not listening and fark you for trying to blame a scapegoat. The problem was caused by everyone who didn't see it coming but invested in housing, sold housing, built housing, financed housing, or just told a coworker "you should buy."
 
2012-05-07 07:38:12 PM  

Sticky Hands: CygnusDarius: Can't we just kill them already? Work like their maids, their cleaners, their drivers, their bodyguards, wait for the right moment and a kick neck-snapping.

[justinsomnia.org image 380x159]

You could. Most of the rest of us don't speak Spanish well enough to get in close like that.


Don't think so. I'm registered in a few left-leaning organizations. My record would be too shifty for anything.

/Unless I made a new identity
 
2012-05-07 07:38:39 PM  
Avery614: Hmmm, my cunning plan.....perhaps if we keep it to 1 per year, you know make a holiday of it, we could off a few more before they catch on. I have to agree with you though, 5 or 6 is probably pushing it in one year....

Okay, now I'm picturing me as the spotter, you as the shooter, and both of us wearing Santa hats.
 
2012-05-07 07:40:16 PM  
Why did it take 4 years for these email to come out now?
 
2012-05-07 07:42:58 PM  
This is why I rent.
 
2012-05-07 07:46:10 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?


"Resisting Arrest Without Violence":

http://www.pixiq.com/article/south-florida-politician-arrested-for-re s isting-arrest-without-violence

Yes, you can be legally arrested for anything.
 
2012-05-07 07:47:31 PM  

ThreeEdgedSword: Nick Nostril: And just think, all the money that was "lost" in 2008 went somewhere. Couldn't have ended up with these jokers, they're all a bunch of dumbasses, aren't they?

If everyone and every country is broke or near broke, then it's all a sham. But, then the question is: why?


Where do you think the two trillion in liquidity Big Business is sitting on? The farking sky? The only reason they aren't spending (or hiring) is that would lead to hyper inflation if they were to. They are using it as leverage against the fed from putting any sort of regulation whatsoever to deal with it.

Big business has become the Mafia. To farking big to go after. Well almost. Until we go after then with pitchforks and guns.
 
2012-05-07 07:50:40 PM  

Weaver95: Debeo Summa Credo: I know the banks farked up, but if the bank puts an extra $100 in your account is it yours? .

except in this case, it went something like this:

customer: 'um, excuse me...but you gave me an extra $100 that isn't mine.'
bank: 'I have no idea what you're talking about.'
customer: 'no, really - I want to give it back,'
bank: 'get lost kid, yer bothering me.'
customer: 'no, really - this isn't mine!'
bank: 'I have nothing on record about what you're blathering about. now get the hell outta here.'
customer: 'fine. i'll put this aside.'

[later]

bank: 'hey! you owe us $100. we want it back! with interest!'
customer: 'can you prove you gave me this money?'
bank: 'um...well....you said we gave it to you.'
customer: 'I dont' recall having that conversation.'
bank: 'well...you owe it to us! or we'll SUE!'
courts: 'can you prove you gave him that money?'
bank: 'um...well...no. but we're the BANK!'
courst: 'I don't care. customer, I find you not guilty and you are free to go'
customer: 'thanks!'
bank: 'I hate you.'


Umm, no. Each person who got a loan filled out an application for the loan and bought a house which they used as collateral against that loan.

So your narrative is completely incorrect and not based on reality.
 
2012-05-07 07:52:34 PM  
Wait wait wait!

Are you going to try and tell me that a bunch of greedy cock suckers with no regard for anyone or thing but their bank accounts didn't listen to warnings about the dangers of their actions on the economy at large? Say it ain't so!
 
2012-05-07 07:53:34 PM  

Weaver95: I found the idea whole idea perverse - you can literally be arrested for nothing more than resisting arrest. now, odds are you could probably get the charge thrown out...but that means lawyers, a court date and at least $2000 worth of effort.

but that's the kind of country we live in now. just sitting in a room somewhere you are probably violating half dozen laws and you don't even know it.



They have these bullshiat charges even in relation to "real" crime.

CSB- When I was 21 or 22 I was with three friends in a car driving through Overbrook Park in Phila. We get pulled over for a busted tail light and my friend in the front passenger seat didn't have his ID on him. They use this as P. C. to remove him from the car and search him. They find about 1/2 gram of pot and arrest him for it. They don't search me or the driver of the vehicle. Later that night when we picked Mike up from the station he had an insane amount of charges. Possession, paraphernalia, disorderly conduct were all no surprise. Now they don't do this in Philly anymore as anything under 30 grams is a non-summary offense but they gave him "possession with intent to distribute but not sell." When Mike asked the cop what that was, the cop explains that it was presumed he was going to smoke that pot with us so it was intent to distribute but not sell. His lawyer got it dropped but if he didn't, it would have been a distribution charge with jail time attached.

/but hey at least all the lawyers, judges and cops got paid right?
//couldn't have even rolled a joint let alone share it
 
2012-05-07 07:56:31 PM  

Bio-nic: downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?

There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.


Ok so you get a few of them charged with not coming to a complete stop - now what?
 
2012-05-07 07:57:01 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: Avery614: Hmmm, my cunning plan.....perhaps if we keep it to 1 per year, you know make a holiday of it, we could off a few more before they catch on. I have to agree with you though, 5 or 6 is probably pushing it in one year....

Okay, now I'm picturing me as the spotter, you as the shooter, and both of us wearing Santa hats.


www.gunslot.com

You wear the hat, I'm sporting antlers and a red nose.
 
2012-05-07 07:57:17 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?

"Resisting Arrest Without Violence":

http://www.pixiq.com/article/south-florida-politician-arrested-for-re s isting-arrest-without-violence

Yes, you can be legally arrested for anything.


Yep, the conviction part is the tricky one for the officers...
 
2012-05-07 07:57:40 PM  
I expect to see similar e-mails involving my law firm in a couple of years.

/yes I'm still there, at least for another week
//yes it's depressing as hell
 
2012-05-07 07:59:20 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Umm, no. Each person who got a loan filled out an application for the loan and bought a house which they used as collateral against that loan..


yeah, but the banks chopped up those loans, rolled them into other products that were almost entirely comprised of other chopped up loans and then sold that financial sausage product to a bunch of suckers who didn't really know what it was they were buying.

when the whole thing fell apart, nobody knew who owned what anymore. that's why the banks really don't want to talk about this mess. they cannot legally prove they own half the loans they sold.
 
2012-05-07 08:00:01 PM  

Serious Black: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.


I mentioned this when the Occupy movement got going: Everything they did was 100% legal. Paying your CEOs gazillions of dollars for no reason? Legal. Knowing the market is (probably) going to tank and not telling anyone? Legal. Voting to dump shares in your company as long as it's more than six months after you bought them? Legal. Everything else these bottomsuckers did? Legal.

Just like being stupid isn't a crime, being greedy isn't a crime. You want to change this crap, we need financial reform at the top, not the bottom.
 
2012-05-07 08:00:02 PM  
Margin Call is a great movie if a bit simplistic. It perfectly captures the attitude of what was going on.
 
2012-05-07 08:01:25 PM  

jvl: To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming"


How about just those who we have evidence saw it coming and decided to double down on their shady business practices?
 
2012-05-07 08:03:31 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: Debeo Summa Credo: I know the banks farked up, but if the bank puts an extra $100 in your account is it yours? .

except in this case, it went something like this:

customer: 'um, excuse me...but you gave me an extra $100 that isn't mine.'
bank: 'I have no idea what you're talking about.'
customer: 'no, really - I want to give it back,'
bank: 'get lost kid, yer bothering me.'
customer: 'no, really - this isn't mine!'
bank: 'I have nothing on record about what you're blathering about. now get the hell outta here.'
customer: 'fine. i'll put this aside.'

[later]

bank: 'hey! you owe us $100. we want it back! with interest!'
customer: 'can you prove you gave me this money?'
bank: 'um...well....you said we gave it to you.'
customer: 'I dont' recall having that conversation.'
bank: 'well...you owe it to us! or we'll SUE!'
courts: 'can you prove you gave him that money?'
bank: 'um...well...no. but we're the BANK!'
courst: 'I don't care. customer, I find you not guilty and you are free to go'
customer: 'thanks!'
bank: 'I hate you.'

Umm, no. Each person who got a loan filled out an application for the loan and bought a house which they used as collateral against that loan.

So your narrative is completely incorrect and not based on reality.


Yes, but what do you do when no one can prove who owns the loan? If I pay Party A, but Party B owns the loan, Party B can come back when the dust settles and ask for repayment of ALLLLLLL those outstanding payments that you made in good faith to someone else. How easy is it gonna be to get Party A to pay Party B?

Same scenario, only now, neither A nor B can prove they own the loan. Settled law says as soon as I make a payment, I'm admitting I owe on that account. So I have to refuse to pay both A and B until one of them can prove who owns my loan. If neither of them did the paperwork correctly to transfer ownership, or their hired paper-signers didn't write the actual name of the client bank hiring them to write clear paperwork, TFB; I get a free house.

Yeah, it's a technicality, but there are real legal reasons for that to be so. These documents exist for a reason, and to fail to write them accurately is asking to lose lots of money. You can bet your sweet bippy that the homeowner would lose no less than the house and most of their life savings (as well as gain a bankruptcy filing and/or big legal bill on top) if they failed to write clear paperwork, or failed to hold up their end of the deal.
 
2012-05-07 08:04:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Knowing the market is (probably) going to tank and not telling anyone? Legal.


How about knowing you're selling a turd wrapped in pretty paper and calling it a present?
 
2012-05-07 08:04:46 PM  
I've seen enough.

The banking industry needs serious oversight, and the only Presidential candidate who will even attempt this is Barack Obama. Sure, he played the game when he came into office, but so would've I and you in that clusterfark of a crisis...Mitt-knee is not the answer. He laps bank spit. Just ask him.

;)

P.S. Barack Obama to heal some of this trauma against the non-banks, please. Next term. Game's on.
 
2012-05-07 08:07:43 PM  

timujin: Gyrfalcon: Knowing the market is (probably) going to tank and not telling anyone? Legal.

How about knowing you're selling a turd wrapped in pretty paper and calling it a present?


It's AAA credit... In Moody's opinion. It's only an opinion, you shouldn't make financial choices based on it, at least in their opinion.
 
2012-05-07 08:09:12 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.



You would have voted to acquit at Nuremburg.


That actually happened. Some of the nazis were not guilty, and were acquited. They didn't just say "fark it we'll find something to get you on". They let them go.
 
2012-05-07 08:10:53 PM  
FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

personally, i think the justice dept should go after some of these CEOs and CFOs for multiple-count grand theft and seek triple-digit sentences.

Serious Black: Unfortunately, as Aasif Mandvi pointed out on TDS last week, you can't get convicted of a crime for something that isn't illegal.


William K. Black, a law professor, litigator and white collar crime expert, said the following:

"I can no longer say that not a single senior executive of one of the major nonprime lenders whose frauds hyper-inflated the housing bubble and caused the Great Recession has been convicted of his frauds. A single senior executive of one of the hundreds of fraudulent nonprime lenders was convicted yesterday, April 19, 2011. A jury found Lee Farkas, Chairman of the Board of Taylor, Bean & Whitaker (TBW), guilty of fraud. TBW was a large mortgage banking firm that made many nonprime loans, but the prosecution does not address the fraudulent nonprime lending. "

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/once-is-never_b_851442.h tml
 
2012-05-07 08:14:03 PM  
Welcome to Obama's Amerika.

/The one he inherited from the Republicans
 
jvl
2012-05-07 08:14:50 PM  

timujin: jvl: To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming"

How about just those who we have evidence saw it coming and decided to double down on their shady business practices?


You mean the ones who were warned by people who appeared to be crazy as a loon? The kind of person who had been warning for years and was never right?

Oh, they were right this time? Bring on the firing squad!

As one of those loons let me tell you this: it is completely understandable that people ignored me. Everyone thought things were fine. Everyone thought housing prices "only go up" and have "never gone down nationwide" thereby ensuring that in the worst case scenario, all loans would be paid back in full.
 
2012-05-07 08:20:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Meh, what a biased, cherry picking article. Lehman was looking for capital but they thought the prices offered were too low. They saw home prices and mortgage debt prices deteriorating but they didn't think it would get as bad as it did (obviously).

Funny, the people calling lehman criminals because they didn't foresee the financial crisis that killed them would call goldman sachs criminals because they did foresee the crisis and hedged their risk.

Weaver95: And these people aren't in a jail cell...why?

Because they didn't commit any crimes. No matter how angry you are, or how many times you pound your tiny fists of rage into the table screaming for the heads of bankers, you can't prosecute anyone who hasn't committed a crime. And making poor business decisions (orawriting emails in the style of a 12-year old) isn't a crime.


Trolling hard.
failing harder.

1/10
 
2012-05-07 08:21:10 PM  
Follow the idiot logic:

The clear message: Lehman would use a similar approach through the 2008 downturn. At the board meeting in January, Lehman management explained that while other Wall Street firms were raising "significant capital" in the "past three months," for Lehman "aggressive capital raising is not necessary" because the firm "remains strongly capitalized" thanks to capital "generated by earnings."

So they refused to raise capital to offset losses if their earnings dried up, because they were making capital from "earnings."

Translation: we don't have to worry unless the money train stops, but that would NEVER happen!
 
2012-05-07 08:23:32 PM  

Indubitably: I've seen enough.

The banking industry needs serious oversight, and the only Presidential candidate who will even attempt this is Barack Obama. Sure, he played the game when he came into office, but so would've I and you in that clusterfark of a crisis...Mitt-knee is not the answer. He laps bank spit. Just ask him.

;)

P.S. Barack Obama to heal some of this trauma against the non-banks, please. Next term. Game's on.


P.P.S. Oh, and for you PBS scathers, I just finished the recent four part Frontline piece, and, well, shiatae.

P.P.P.S. I expect more Elizabeth Warrenesque next term, Mr. President. Seriously. Oh, and some Krugman mixed with a Volker and a hearty dose of education and student debt forgiveness. We should educate first, destroy second, period. We can afford it. Just cut homeland terrorism...heh;)
 
2012-05-07 08:31:03 PM  

downstairs: Weaver95: downstairs: Weaver95: no, i'm saying that you can be arrested for resisting arrest. you commited no crime, but you can be arrested for resisting arrest for...not commiting any crime.

Never heard of anyone arrested for ONLY resisting arrest. Yes, I know cops have trumped up charges, placed drugs on people, all that fun stuff. But can you tell me a story of where this actually happened. Someone being arrested for nothing?

What if they didn't resist? What would the cop put down on their report?

it happens to a lot of OWS protesters. they get arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else.

No, they get arrested for disturbing the public.

Again, we can debate if someone should be arrested, or if cops are lying, all that.

But I've never heard of someone being arrested just for resisting arrest. Because, again, what if they DIDN'T resist... what would the cop put down on the report?


Disorderly Conduct.
 
2012-05-07 08:36:11 PM  

jvl: People with 20/20 hindsight would like to jail people who lacked 20/20 foresight.

I saw much of the bubble coming. I was treated as a nutcase, and I completely understood why since my view of the financial risks were so far from mainstream. To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming" I'd just like to say: fark you for not listening and fark you for trying to blame a scapegoat. The problem was caused by everyone who didn't see it coming but invested in housing, sold housing, built housing, financed housing, or just told a coworker "you should buy."


So you being an industry outsider could see it coming, yet the insiders couldn't.

Ok then.
 
2012-05-07 08:37:08 PM  
 
2012-05-07 08:45:38 PM  

Avery614: Barricaded Gunman: Avery614: With a suppressor and a spotter, from a rooftop, over 1/2 mile from the target, would be one way.... If you keep your mouth shut about why (ie. no letters to the press regarding your GRAND PLAN) you could probably kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on....

The only part of your plan that I have a problem with is the notion that you could "kill 5 or 6 of the bastards before they figure out what's going on.... " I think after the second Wall Street f#cker got a pink mist haircut from 500 yards away they'd put it together. Although I hasten to add that despite this minor quibble I am in no way objecting to this proposed course of action.


Hmmm, my cunning plan.....perhaps if we keep it to 1 per year, you know make a holiday of it, we could off a few more before they catch on. I have to agree with you though, 5 or 6 is probably pushing it in one year....


Maybe if you can catch them all in different cities while on vacation it will take awhile to notice the pattern.
 
2012-05-07 08:58:59 PM  
jvl: People with 20/20 hindsight would like to jail people who lacked 20/20 foresight.

I saw much of the bubble coming. I was treated as a nutcase, and I completely understood why since my view of the financial risks were so far from mainstream. To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming" I'd just like to say: fark you for not listening and fark you for trying to blame a scapegoat. The problem was caused by everyone who didn't see it coming but invested in housing, sold housing, built housing, financed housing, or just told a coworker "you should buy."

ThePastafarian:So you being an industry outsider could see it coming, yet the insiders couldn't.

Ok then.


It wasn't rocket science. The Economist magazine, one of the world's premier magazines about business and current events, was raising an alarm in 2003, with their cover story about the worldwide real estate / debt bubble. The title was "House Of Cards." There are multiple links under the "In this special report" heading.

The reason so many looked the other way was because they were making lots of money. Both politicians who were getting lots of contributions and tax revenue, as well as business insiders. Recall Fabrice Tourre, the Goldman Sachs executive. In an e-mail dated Jan. 23, 2007, Tourre described himself as "the only potential survivor" of a collapsing market for complex deals based on mortgage-backed securities.

Lots of people knew something was going to happen. The insiders knew precisely what. The rest of us who were at all interested watched the warning signs of a coming storm.
 
2012-05-07 08:59:08 PM  

ThePastafarian: jvl: People with 20/20 hindsight would like to jail people who lacked 20/20 foresight.

I saw much of the bubble coming. I was treated as a nutcase, and I completely understood why since my view of the financial risks were so far from mainstream. To those of you who saw nothing but think the titans of industry should be jailed since they "must have seen it coming" I'd just like to say: fark you for not listening and fark you for trying to blame a scapegoat. The problem was caused by everyone who didn't see it coming but invested in housing, sold housing, built housing, financed housing, or just told a coworker "you should buy."

So you being an industry outsider could see it coming, yet the insiders couldn't.

Ok then.


Hmm, I saw something coming as well. Everyone driving brand new SUV's, buying boats and owning multiple houses. I was pretty sure that was unsustainable, but then again I'm not an MBA.
 
2012-05-07 09:02:16 PM  

ThePastafarian: So you being an industry outsider could see it coming, yet the insiders couldn't.


The insiders new it was coming and they didn't care. There were risk managers all over the place trying to stop things but being ignored and even fired in some cases.
 
2012-05-07 09:07:20 PM  
I'm waiting to see how Republicons spin this into reasoning for even less regulation.
 
2012-05-07 09:11:08 PM  

Cyclonic Cooking Action: Hmm, I saw something coming as well. Everyone driving brand new SUV's, buying boats and owning multiple houses. I was pretty sure that was unsustainable, but then again I'm not an MBA.


The surest sign of trouble ahead, the man who helped created mortgage backed securities, Larry Fink, was having nothing to do with them. Interestingly his company is the one major financial company that managed to just sail through the financial crisis without their situation going to hell.
 
2012-05-07 09:14:12 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Cyclonic Cooking Action: Hmm, I saw something coming as well. Everyone driving brand new SUV's, buying boats and owning multiple houses. I was pretty sure that was unsustainable, but then again I'm not an MBA.

The surest sign of trouble ahead, the man who helped created mortgage backed securities, Larry Fink, was having nothing to do with them. Interestingly his company is the one major financial company that managed to just sail through the financial crisis without their situation going to hell.


One of two. Goldman Sachs made billions.
 
2012-05-07 09:15:22 PM  
How do you spell Stupidity in Chinese?

愚蠢
 
2012-05-07 09:18:04 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: One of two. Goldman Sachs made billions.


one of many. anyone trading volatility in 2008 made a mint.
 
jvl
2012-05-07 09:18:55 PM  

JungleBoogie: It wasn't rocket science. The Economist magazine, one of the world's premier magazines about business and current events, was raising an alarm in 2003, with their cover story about the worldwide real estate / debt bubble. The title was "House Of Cards." There are multiple links under the "In this special report" heading.


Quite correct. But do not also forget this: they were treated like tin-foil hatters

The reason so many looked the other way was because they were making lots of money.

Close. Look at it this way; Pointed-Headed Boss hires Dilbert and Wally. Dilbert says we're doomed and avoids risky bets. Wally says "whatever" and invests like a man possessed. Question: Does Pointed-headed Boss tell Wally to invest more conservatively? Of course not! Wally makes money by the bucketful so obviously Dilbert is a moron.

The "Planet Money" podcast had some great interviews with some of the top MBS guys on Wall Street. They were horrified at what happened and absolutely did not see this coming. One of then had completely changed his life around for the better, and was clearly willing to honestly explain exactly how he saw things at the time with nothing left to hide.

When you say "this could easily be seen" you are 100% right. Wall-Street heads just aren't as smart as you give them credit for: they too suffer from the human tendency to view trends above a certain number of years as permanent trends. They may have read stuff that worried them. But then they went to the Golf Club where everybody was talking about how great things are and why is he worrying about that tin-foil hat nonsense.

What makes the reports from "The Economist" truly brave, in my opinion, is just how completely they refuted accepted wisdom. And how they maintained their position in the face of derision and apparent failure of their position.
 
2012-05-07 09:25:57 PM  

Weaver95: Debeo Summa Credo: Umm, no. Each person who got a loan filled out an application for the loan and bought a house which they used as collateral against that loan..

yeah, but the banks chopped up those loans, rolled them into other products that were almost entirely comprised of other chopped up loans and then sold that financial sausage product to a bunch of suckers who didn't really know what it was they were buying.

when the whole thing fell apart, nobody knew who owned what anymore. that's why the banks really don't want to talk about this mess. they cannot legally prove they own half the loans they sold.


Think of the products as green slime, it started out as money, but got fungibled to it's lowest common denominator.
 
2012-05-07 09:45:17 PM  

Weaver95: look - if we let a group of arrogant insiders run billion dollar corporations into the ground then walk away from the flaming wreckage with golden parachutes and go on to their next million dollar an hour jobs without facing any consequences then eventually the people who keep getting screwed over are going to start looking for payback. And if they don't have recourse to satisfaction via the courts, then they're eventually going to just start looking for revenge on their own terms. Don't screw people over and then piss on their heads...not when a lot of the peons in this country are pretty heavily armed.

i'm just sayin that it could happen.


God, I hope so.
 
2012-05-07 09:47:19 PM  

thomps: The Jami Turman Fan Club: One of two. Goldman Sachs made billions.

one of many. anyone trading volatility in 2008 made a mint.


Only as long as that money means anything really...

;)
 
2012-05-07 09:56:35 PM  

Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?


You think it SHOULD be okay to arrest at whim. Yes, you're the bad guy.
 
2012-05-07 10:15:32 PM  
Anyone ever seen the HBO movie about the crash called "Too Big To Fail?"

It's a touching rendition of how difficult this situation was on people like Fuld, Paulson and Bernanke and how they all became unwilling heroes trying to save the Western world from its own excess.

Wait, did I say touching? What I meant is disgusting in a way that makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about that piece of shiat movie. Those are the farkers that caused this problem in the first place and they got paid millions of dollars to throw billions of tax dollars away fixing it!

We should have let them all go under and spent that money building new institutions. This idea that the world will collapse if wall-street executives stopped getting million dollar bonuses has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Banking is almost as old as prostitution, a farking monkey could figure out how to lend money. Hell, we could just fall back on loan sharks for a while, the down side is about the same as propping up the existing banks.
 
2012-05-07 10:21:24 PM  

historycat: I love the argument that they have to be paid more than your average nobody since "how will we attract top talent?"

If this is top talent they need better HR.

My high school students sound exactly like this. We shud get A's cause were ausome sauce!!!!!


No, it'd be more like your students saying that their five best friends, who they've appointed onto their own grade evaluation committee, have said that even though they never did any homework and couldn't work half the exam problems, they're like totally as smart as Linus Pauling, Albert Einstein, and Emily Noether, and so should get at least the grades those geniuses would get or else the school might lose their amazing talent. Then, instead of the teacher laughing them out the door, they say, well, if your five best friends think you're that awesome, we'd better do what they say to keep you around.
 
2012-05-07 10:24:51 PM  
Treason? Couldn't we get them for treason? Bush told us it was our patriotic duty to spend money, they profiteered on it and probably cost us the war. Is there, like, a negligence aspect of treason? Like treason in the third degree? A reasonable person should have foreseen that these actions would have brought at the very least comfort to the enemy. I mean, we're in the middle of a war and these farkers crashed the economy. They knew it was coming and their only thought was how to make money off of it? In the middle of a war? Not to prevent it and try and mitigate the damage to the war effort, but to make money? For themselves?

My gut feeling is that we ever revolted they'd vanish down secret hatches and kick off World War Three.
 
2012-05-07 10:27:13 PM  
www.aaanything.net
 
2012-05-07 10:32:29 PM  

Wangiss: Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?

You think it SHOULD be okay to arrest at whim. Yes, you're the bad guy.



I took the statement as more "the rules should apply to all of us or none of us". 99% of us are already able to be arrested for pretty much anything. Why is that reality not the same for these assholes?
 
2012-05-07 10:34:25 PM  
thisnerdinglife.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-07 10:39:05 PM  

Digital Communist: Anyone ever seen the HBO movie about the crash called "Too Big To Fail?"


"Too Big To Fail" is a phrase which has become popular during the Great Recession.

However, a term many don't know about is Too Connected To Jail.
 
2012-05-07 11:14:34 PM  

Bio-nic: downstairs: Bio-nic: downstairs: Weaver95: I can't drive down the f*cking street to work without breaking at least 2 or 3 laws

Huh?

There is almost no law that a police officer cannot bring a person up on charges of - legitimately. Almost anything is illegal SOMEWHERE. It's just making the charges stick that's the problem.

/I say just throw them in a holding pen for 24 hours and tell the regular inmates that the CEOs rape babies and run over grandmas... problem solved.

Still not getting it. If I drive just under the speed limit, make complete stops, and always use a signal... what can you get me on? Serious question.

I understand the sheer majority of drivers go 5 over, and cops almost always look the other way until you approach 10-ish over.

I don't though (because by and large, our ancient streets aren't too safe to speed on).

Have some dirt on your plate? Driving with an obscured tag.
Driving below the speed limit under "normal" conditions? Checking for the safety of the drivers.
Driving at night? Checking for impairment.

It doesn't matter if it's LEGAL - it's a JUSTIFICATION.


Pffftt..., not even worth the effort of faking the paperwork.

1. Initiate contact with citizen.
2. Arrest citizen for "disorderly conduct".
3. Mmmmm.. donuts!
 
2012-05-07 11:23:38 PM  

Avery614: Wangiss: Weaver95: Wangiss: You're such a totalitarian asshole.

any of us little people can be arrested at any time on a whim and I point out that hey, why not do the same to the rich assholes who are destroying our economy and suddenly i'm the bad guy?

You think it SHOULD be okay to arrest at whim. Yes, you're the bad guy.


I took the statement as more "the rules should apply to all of us or none of us". 99% of us are already able to be arrested for pretty much anything. Why is that reality not the same for these assholes?


exactly. if 99% of us can be arrested on a whim...why exempt the 1%? my point is that either all the rules apply to all of us all the time...or NONE of the rules apply to any of us ever.

tell you what tho...if we DID start treating the 1% with the same sort of authoritarian whimsy that affects the bulk of this society...I'll bet a lot of those asinine rules would get changed in a hurry.
 
2012-05-07 11:24:54 PM  
I say sentence them to passing over a four lane bridge in Cleveland!

The Occurtards will take care of them!
 
2012-05-07 11:27:30 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Weaver95: Debeo Summa Credo: I know the banks farked up, but if the bank puts an extra $100 in your account is it yours? .

except in this case, it went something like this:

customer: 'um, excuse me...but you gave me an extra $100 that isn't mine.'
bank: 'I have no idea what you're talking about.'
customer: 'no, really - I want to give it back,'
bank: 'get lost kid, yer bothering me.'
customer: 'no, really - this isn't mine!'
bank: 'I have nothing on record about what you're blathering about. now get the hell outta here.'
customer: 'fine. i'll put this aside.'

[later]

bank: 'hey! you owe us $100. we want it back! with interest!'
customer: 'can you prove you gave me this money?'
bank: 'um...well....you said we gave it to you.'
customer: 'I dont' recall having that conversation.'
bank: 'well...you owe it to us! or we'll SUE!'
courts: 'can you prove you gave him that money?'
bank: 'um...well...no. but we're the BANK!'
courst: 'I don't care. customer, I find you not guilty and you are free to go'
customer: 'thanks!'
bank: 'I hate you.'

Umm, no. Each person who got a loan filled out an application for the loan and bought a house which they used as collateral against that loan.

So your narrative is completely incorrect and not based on reality.


In many cases, you're wrong. You're describing how the process was SUPPOSED to work. That's why some people...including judges...are irate at robo-signing, and worse practices.

Many of these mortgage applications were literally filled in by temps...not applicants...and then misplaced. Others, some mortgage firms actually used white-out to change the info the applicant supplied.

It's nice to be a bank though...if you or I did that, we'd be in jail for fraud.
 
2012-05-07 11:27:37 PM  
Meanniss: Maybe if you can catch them all in different cities while on vacation it will take awhile to notice the pattern.

I love the idea that multiple long distance public sniping murders of prominent investment bankers would be treated as completely unrelated crimes because they happened in Miami, Los Angeles and Seattle. You're on the team!



Avery614: You wear the hat, I'm sporting antlers and a red nose.

There is simply no possible way for this to end badly. I'm certain of it.
 
2012-05-07 11:27:52 PM  

Weaver95: exactly. if 99% of us can be arrested on a whim...why exempt the 1%? my point is that either all the rules apply to all of us all the time...or NONE of the rules apply to any of us ever.

tell you what tho...if we DID start treating the 1% with the same sort of authoritarian whimsy that affects the bulk of this society...I'll bet a lot of those asinine rules would get changed in a hurry.


Oh look the liberal Brown Shirt shows up.

Again.

I guess the rules don't apply! Get yer C-4!
 
2012-05-07 11:29:54 PM  
My intelligence is insulted.


AH yes, want a skapegoat. It was those guys who DIDN'T get bailed out. Yes yes, that's the ticket. The guys who got bailed out were totally upstanding and didn't do anyhting unethical at all. It was Lehman Bros who did it all. . . Nothing to see here. Kindly vote for your Goldman Sachs candidate in the next election. He will surely spank those nasty local banks to help Goldman Sa... umm I mean, he loves you and wants you to be happy. Goldman Sachs approved this message.
 
2012-05-07 11:31:15 PM  

JungleBoogie: However, a term many don't know about is Too Connected To Jail.


Naw, c'mon, Barack's lender is in jail.

So is his buddy the Governor.
 
2012-05-07 11:33:37 PM  

halfof33: Weaver95: exactly. if 99% of us can be arrested on a whim...why exempt the 1%? my point is that either all the rules apply to all of us all the time...or NONE of the rules apply to any of us ever.

tell you what tho...if we DID start treating the 1% with the same sort of authoritarian whimsy that affects the bulk of this society...I'll bet a lot of those asinine rules would get changed in a hurry.

Oh look the liberal Brown Shirt shows up.

Again.

I guess the rules don't apply! Get yer C-4!


'liberal brown shirt'?

that's a new one. i'll put that next to 'atheist muslim'.

*scribbles it down*
 
2012-05-07 11:33:53 PM  

Crusader: FlashHarry: has anybody gone to jail yet?

THIS. All of the memos, emails, and presentations don't mean a damn thing if no one is held accountable for their actions.


But. . . Goldman Sachs has it's ex CEOs all in regulator positions over the financial system. . . but then again, yes, Lehman Brothers is the rogue bank of them all, which is why it was not bailed out by the Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan Chase ex executives in positions over the bailout/regulatory process.


Go about your lives. Nothing to see here.
 
2012-05-07 11:35:08 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: Welcome to Obama's Amerika.

/The one he inherited from the Republicans


Which was inhereted by Clinton who got rid of Glass Stegal. . . ;)
 
2012-05-07 11:40:13 PM  

Weaver95: 'liberal brown shirt'?

that's a new one. i'll put that next to 'atheist muslim'.

*scribbles it down*


I'm not sure but I think he is calling you a liberal Nazi SA Stormtrooper or something....reminded me of this pic tho...

worldofpopculture.com
 
2012-05-07 11:41:17 PM  

Weaver95: scribbles it down*


Scribble it next to: Non douchebag Occupier
 
2012-05-07 11:46:01 PM  

gobstopping: AssAsInAssassin: Welcome to Obama's Amerika.

/The one he inherited from the Republicans

Which was inhereted by Clinton who got rid of Glass Stegal. . . ;)


Well if we are going back in time I still blame the Bushes. All this shiat started with our 14th president Franklin Pierce and it's been downhill ever since.....
George W. is a, however many times, great nephew of Franklin Pierce, on his mothers side. I blame Pierce.

/sarcasm off
 
2012-05-07 11:46:09 PM  

halfof33: Weaver95: scribbles it down*

Scribble it next to: Non douchebag Occupier


I don't understand what you think you're trying to say....
 
2012-05-07 11:50:47 PM  

Weaver95: I don't understand what you think you're trying to say....


I'm trying to say: stop being an apologist for anarchist dick whistles, Josef.
 
2012-05-07 11:53:18 PM  

halfof33: Weaver95: I don't understand what you think you're trying to say....

I'm trying to say: stop being an apologist for anarchist dick whistles, Josef.


this literally makes no sense to me.
 
2012-05-07 11:55:26 PM  

halfof33: lulz, it takes a special kind of stupid to think that "liberals" can't be authoritarian meat balls.

They are just more Staliny.

Like Weaver.


Poor recovery. You could have used Bolshevik, if you meant Staliny, or a Maoist if you wanted to go the Pol Pot route. Instead you called him a liberal Nazi. You loose, good day sir.

For future reference...

Communist------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------moderate------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------Nazi

There is the scale. If you are going to go the route of insulting someone by painting them as an extremist at least understand which side of the spectrum their views come from.
 
2012-05-07 11:57:34 PM  

Weaver95: this literally makes no sense to me.


Read a book about the French Revolution, that might shed some light on the authoritarian "liberals" you don't think exist.
 
2012-05-08 12:05:01 AM  

Avery614: There is the scale. If you are going to go the route of insulting someone by painting them as an extremist at least understand which side of the spectrum their views come from.


The belief that the "scale" runs from left to right in a straight line is quaint.

It is fact a circle, with the "left" wing authoritarians indistinguishable in fact from the "right" wing authoritarians.

Their propaganda differs, but their tactics and the result is the same.

See Robespierre
Hitler
Mao
Stalin
Obama.

/just kidding about Obama. He's Chicago Machine Democrat, whole another thing.
 
2012-05-08 12:42:34 AM  

halfof33: Weaver95: this literally makes no sense to me.

Read a book about the French Revolution, that might shed some light on the authoritarian "liberals" you don't think exist.


I still don't understand what point it is you are trying to make.
 
2012-05-08 12:43:57 AM  

Weaver95: halfof33: Weaver95: scribbles it down*

Scribble it next to: Non douchebag Occupier

I don't understand what you think you're trying to say....


You're not alone...
 
2012-05-08 12:51:45 AM  

gobstopping: AssAsInAssassin: Welcome to Obama's Amerika.

/The one he inherited from the Republicans

Which was inhereted by Clinton who got rid of Glass Stegal. . . ;)


I think your timeline is a tad off kilter.
 
2012-05-08 12:58:37 AM  

Barricaded Gunman:
I truly, honestly, seriously hope that happens. All it would take is for one or two of these ultra-wealthy, Tuscan-villa-owning bankers to be bludgeoned or shot to death in the street by someone who lost their home or their 401(k), and the malfeasant a-holes on Wall Street would begin to pay attention. Because we've already seen how much they don't fear legal repercussions.


Lets say the mob did, in fact, manage to nail one of the 1% (for want of a better term) to the wall. Not the idiots in the buildings who put up the "We are the 1%" sign... because they aren't... not even in the same country let along ball park but an actual Director of one of these mega-banks.

These are the same people who, on a whim, can fund a police department sufficiently to go out and break heads on protesters and they can do it from what amounts to their petty cash. What, exactly, do you think the response would be and out of interest just how many days do you think it'd take for the laws to be edited and bills passed to facilitate that response?

There are some fish who really are too big... no matter how many zerglings you've got. Need to scrape their influence out of government and then get them to deal with it... by GL with that one.
 
2012-05-08 01:02:54 AM  

Vaneshi:

There are some fish who really are too big... no matter how many zerglings you've got. Need to scrape their influence out of government and then get them to deal with it... by GL with that one.


y'know...that's exactly what the king of france was saying right up to the point where the mob chopped off his head.
 
2012-05-08 02:34:33 AM  

Ambivalence: I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

:|


fc01.deviantart.net
 
2012-05-08 04:57:51 AM  

halfof33: Oh look the liberal Brown Shirt shows up


Is 16.5 your IQ or metric penis size ?

You honestly want to equate liberalism with fascism ?

halfof33: See Robespierre
Hitler
Mao
Stalin
Obama


OK Ill play, which ones do you consider "left wing" ?
 
2012-05-08 06:21:01 AM  

jvl:
As one of those loons let me tell you this: it is completely understandable that people ignored me. Everyone thought things were fine. Everyone thought housing prices "only go up" and have "never gone down nationwide" thereby ensuring that in the worst case scenario, all loans would be paid back in full.


I'm sorry. Anyone who told you that house prices would "only go up" is, fundamentally, a moran. Now I would agree that it was exceptionally unlikely that they'd return to say 1990's prices, however I think everyone had, at least, some incling that this was a bubble and sooner or later it'd pop.

If only because it was becoming increasingly difficult for first time buyers to raise a deposit so the housing market was already beginning to shiat itself before the sub-prime business really kicked off.
 
2012-05-08 06:30:28 AM  

Weaver95:
y'know...that's exactly what the king of france was saying right up to the point where the mob chopped off his head.


So you're advocating an armed insurrection against your own elected representatives, why not elect more honest ones instead? That wasn't really an option the French had at the time and it seems far less messy than civilians being mowed down by the military.
 
2012-05-08 09:12:34 AM  

Slartibartfaster: OK Ill play, which ones do you consider "left wing" ?


I don't discuss things in term of "left wing." I discuss things in terms of authoritarian.

I understand that some of you don't understand that.

It is either a defect of intellect or the lack of self awareness on your part.

Yay, everything is black or white, yay, now lets chop off their heads! I'm a "liberal"! Yay!
 
2012-05-08 09:17:51 AM  

Digital Communist: Anyone ever seen the HBO movie about the crash called "Too Big To Fail?"

It's a touching rendition of how difficult this situation was on people like Fuld, Paulson and Bernanke and how they all became unwilling heroes trying to save the Western world from its own excess.

Wait, did I say touching? What I meant is disgusting in a way that makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about that piece of shiat movie. Those are the farkers that caused this problem in the first place and they got paid millions of dollars to throw billions of tax dollars away fixing it!

We should have let them all go under and spent that money building new institutions. This idea that the world will collapse if wall-street executives stopped getting million dollar bonuses has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Banking is almost as old as prostitution, a farking monkey could figure out how to lend money. Hell, we could just fall back on loan sharks for a while, the down side is about the same as propping up the existing banks.


You are a biased idiot who cherishes his stupidity so much that he refuses to consider any evidence or viewpoints that don't support his moronic preconceptions.

"Too Big to Fail" (the book anyway, never saw the movie), was one of the least biased and most informative narratives on the crisis available. Read that and Paulson's book, at least, to get a balanced view from the inside on what actually went on.

"Inside Job" and "The Big Short" are entertaining, but clearly biased and structured specifically to identify specific villians that the general public can scapegoat. Authors/producers know what the average idiot wants to see/read, and that's what they write. And morons like you lap it up, happily wallowing in your own ignorance.
 
2012-05-08 09:23:45 AM  

Vaneshi: Weaver95:
y'know...that's exactly what the king of france was saying right up to the point where the mob chopped off his head.

So you're advocating an armed insurrection against your own elected representatives, why not elect more honest ones instead? That wasn't really an option the French had at the time and it seems far less messy than civilians being mowed down by the military.


They don't have the votes. Look what happened in the elections 18 months ago - the country swung right, not left. Since democratically elected change is out, they talk of armed insurrection. I don't know what they're waiting for... maybe these guys are just the ITG Revolutionary Advanced Guard and the true rising will have to wait until they can stockpile adequate cheeto and twinkie rations.
 
2012-05-08 11:17:09 AM  
I assume the scary tag is because the government doesn't have the balls to prosecute these guys.
 
2012-05-08 12:52:02 PM  
Digital Communist: Anyone ever seen the HBO movie about the crash called "Too Big To Fail?"

It's a touching rendition of how difficult this situation was on people like Fuld, Paulson and Bernanke and how they all became unwilling heroes trying to save the Western world from its own excess.

Wait, did I say touching? What I meant is disgusting in a way that makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about that piece of shiat movie. Those are the farkers that caused this problem in the first place and they got paid millions of dollars to throw billions of tax dollars away fixing it!

We should have let them all go under and spent that money building new institutions. This idea that the world will collapse if wall-street executives stopped getting million dollar bonuses has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Banking is almost as old as prostitution, a farking monkey could figure out how to lend money. Hell, we could just fall back on loan sharks for a while, the down side is about the same as propping up the existing banks.

Debeo Summa Credo: You are a biased idiot who cherishes his stupidity so much that he refuses to consider any evidence or viewpoints that don't support his moronic preconceptions.

"Too Big to Fail" (the book anyway, never saw the movie), was one of the least biased and most informative narratives on the crisis available. Read that and Paulson's book, at least, to get a balanced view from the inside on what actually went on.

"Inside Job" and "The Big Short" are entertaining, but clearly biased and structured specifically to identify specific villians that the general public can scapegoat. Authors/producers know what the average idiot wants to see/read, and that's what they write. And morons like you lap it up, happily wallowing in your own ignorance.



Here's the government's official report on the Financial Crisis of 2008:

http://fcic.law.stanford.edu/report/conclusions

Of the various movies made, Inside Job is actually among the most accurate accountings of what went on, the one that aligns most closely with the facts. It's true that any reporting on a subject is going to reflect some author bias. But Inside Job is among those closest to the mark.

Ultimately, people need to look at the facts and decide for themselves.
 
2012-05-08 02:00:51 PM  
Did anyone ever figure out what those entitled Occupy Wall Street pricks were whining about?
 
2012-05-09 05:56:04 PM  

Avery614: halfof33: lulz, it takes a special kind of stupid to think that "liberals" can't be authoritarian meat balls.

They are just more Staliny.

Like Weaver.

Poor recovery. You could have used Bolshevik, if you meant Staliny, or a Maoist if you wanted to go the Pol Pot route. Instead you called him a liberal Nazi. You loose, good day sir.

For future reference...

Communist------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------moderate------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------Nazi

There is the scale. If you are going to go the route of insulting someone by painting them as an extremist at least understand which side of the spectrum their views come from.


Apologies in advance: but ripe fruit hanging lowish is too too sweetish,
and you might lose your "loose" by trying the former in place of your latter...
Adverbs.
;)
 
2012-05-10 02:08:49 PM  

Indubitably: Apologies in advance: but ripe fruit hanging lowish is too too sweetish,
and you might lose your "loose" by trying the former in place of your latter...
Adverbs.
;)


Oh FFS I hate when I do that.....
 
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