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(Yahoo)   We're so broke we can't even afford to go bankrupt anymore   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 41
    More: Fail, Americans, average cost, medical emergency, National Bureau of Economic Research, legal advice, bankruptcy, snowballs  
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5019 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 May 2012 at 10:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 09:08:09 AM
At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!
 
2012-05-07 09:18:35 AM
Sheesh! Why are you making this so hard, people!? Just put the cost of the filing on credit. Seems like a simple solution to me.
 
2012-05-07 10:15:25 AM

EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!


Threadshiat early, threadshiat often.
 
2012-05-07 11:01:12 AM
I'm so f**king poor, I can't even afford to pay attention! *rimshot*
 
2012-05-07 11:04:55 AM
I hope the banks and their cronies have enjoyed themselves, because we're fast approaching the day when they will starve, because there is no more blood to suck out of their muppets.

The parasites are overtaking the host.
 
2012-05-07 11:08:50 AM

EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!


I challenge you to go a single day of posting without mentioning Obama.

I bet you can't do it.
 
2012-05-07 11:12:45 AM
Corporations and banks don't want a strong middle class. They want a desperate working class:

People that will sign liar loans.

People that will use Payday lenders.

People that are so desperate they will work long hours in deplorable conditions to survive.

People with no power and no say in their own lives.
 
2012-05-07 11:13:25 AM
Yes, thank you Republicans. I'm running out of sympathy though because a lot of people who needed bankruptcy voted Republican over stupid wedge issues.

TFA: And think twice before you decide to go it alone, said Gerri Detweiler, director of consumer education for Credit.com/. "It's too complicated now, and too much of a minefield. Make a mistake and your case is dismissed," she said. "A dismissed bankruptcy hurts your credit just as badly as one you complete. So you have all the downside without the fresh start."

Translation: Don't do it yourself because that would cut into our revenue stream.

My first option whenever filing legal paperwork is to do it alone. That's not going to change as long as paid "professionals" are making more mistakes than I am.
 
2012-05-07 11:17:07 AM

Corporate Self: EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!

I challenge you to go a single day of posting without mentioning Obama.

I bet you can't do it.


He just can't quit him, can he?
 
2012-05-07 11:21:26 AM

Corporate Self: EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!

I challenge you to go a single day of posting without mentioning Obama.

I bet you can't do it.


That's perhaps the safest bet in FARK Politics' history.
 
2012-05-07 11:29:52 AM

dragonchild: Yes, thank you Republicans. I'm running out of sympathy though because a lot of people who needed bankruptcy voted Republican over stupid wedge issues.

TFA: And think twice before you decide to go it alone, said Gerri Detweiler, director of consumer education for Credit.com/. "It's too complicated now, and too much of a minefield. Make a mistake and your case is dismissed," she said. "A dismissed bankruptcy hurts your credit just as badly as one you complete. So you have all the downside without the fresh start."

Translation: Don't do it yourself because that would cut into our revenue stream.

My first option whenever filing legal paperwork is to do it alone. That's not going to change as long as paid "professionals" are making more mistakes than I am.


Very true. Lawyers suck, and could care less about making mistakes while representing you because THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.
 
2012-05-07 11:30:11 AM

mainstreet62: EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!

Threadshiat early, threadshiat often.


He's just getting out front on making excuses for Romney losing.
 
2012-05-07 11:55:34 AM
So I should go ahead and file for bankruptcy now while I can afford it instead of waiting until I don't have any money?
 
2012-05-07 12:03:55 PM

Oliver Twisted: So I should go ahead and file for bankruptcy now while I can afford it instead of waiting until I don't have any money?


The greatest thing that could happen to this country would be a bankruptcy filing en masse. It would take months for the courts to sort out the logjam, and all the while everyone who files will be protected from collections by the automatic stay.

In order to make quick and easy cash, the parasite class borrows the maximum against everything it holds. Several months of nonpayment from an enormous amount of debtors would collapse the system. Even if the government wanted to bail them out, it couldn't cover losses that high.
 
2012-05-07 12:12:24 PM
Communist China ain't poor...................
 
2012-05-07 12:20:07 PM

Oliver Twisted: So I should go ahead and file for bankruptcy now while I can afford it instead of waiting until I don't have any money?


I waited until I got my tax return.
 
2012-05-07 12:24:10 PM

Oliver Twisted: So I should go ahead and file for bankruptcy now while I can afford it instead of waiting until I don't have any money?


I suspect you're being snarky but you're on to something, more than you probably realize. Bankruptcy is a recourse for the desperate, but if you're desperate then it only makes your problems more manageable. Getting to that point in the first place implies there are fundamental cash flow problems that also need fixing.

If you toss out the social assumptions about it and just look at the paperwork, a bankruptcy is just a legal procedure for debt. The conditions and results are all detailed in the paperwork, and if you understand them well enough you can -- and people do -- use them to your advantage. I'm not just talking about deadbeats who spend money, declare bankruptcy and start over. Entrepreneurs will use bankruptcy to hit the reset button on a failed venture; if they spent too much money then sometimes liquidation doesn't cover all their debts. Sure, getting financing for the next project is tougher, but some investors actually like the rates junk bonds pay. A corporation that declares bankruptcy isn't necessarily desperate, either. They crunch the numbers and if it turns out bankruptcy law allows them to shed financial obligations that improve their profitability, they'll do it in a heartbeat even if they're solvent.

Consider the implications that businessmen and corporations think of bankruptcy as just a law to be exploited. . . and the Republicans went after the desperate in the name of busting "deadbeats". The deadbeat may clear tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. A corporation can clear billions in debt, in addition to re-negotiating contracts and shedding pension obligations, causing a lot more social damage than that guy in Section 8 with an Escalade.
 
2012-05-07 12:50:26 PM
So if you don't file for bankruptcy and still don't have any money...what exactly is different?
 
2012-05-07 02:24:13 PM

Nuclear Monk: So if you don't file for bankruptcy and still don't have any money...what exactly is different?


Filing bankruptcy ends collection calls (peace of mind for the debtor), and successful bankruptcy discharges part or all of debt. From a lender's standpoint, the case that has filed bankruptcy in the past but is currently clean is a better risk than someone with a bunch of festering garbage all over their credit report. The festering case is still liable for the debt, and that has to be considered in debt-to-income calculations. All things being equal, that's a worse repayment scenario than someone who has no liabilities anymore, even though the likelihood of default is high in both cases.
 
2012-05-07 02:27:50 PM

Nuclear Monk: So if you don't file for bankruptcy and still don't have any money...what exactly is different?


If there's any chance that you may have money in the future, creditors will eventually sue you, and get a judgment. That will hang over your head for a very, very long time. When that day comes that you have money again, or assets that can be attached or subject to a lien, those creditors are going to come looking for it.

Now, some people are judgment-proof. They do not and never will have wealth or income. So suing them is a waste of time, so such people don't need to file bankruptcy.

As for the rest of us, if you file bankruptcy, then when you have money again your old creditors won't be able to collect.

That's what bankruptcy is for. Do not put yourself in a position where a money judgment is filed against you. Better to just file bankruptcy. Life is easier that way.
 
2012-05-07 02:52:03 PM
As somebody who's bankruptcy will be approved / finalized / happyhappyjoyjoy in 7-8 more days I'm getting a kick out of this.

I had to file due to schenanigans by the ex-wife, a dishonest bill collector and a judge that doesn't give a rat's ass about due process. The fun part is almost nobody filed their proof of claim so nearly 3/4 of my debt is gone forever. Chapter 13 with dumbass creditors FTW.

Come October 2014 I will be 100% debt free with every legitimate debt 100% paid off. But yeah, filing isn't cheap. Between legal fees and paying the trustee, I'm spending more money on that then on my previous debt. But who cares? I'm only paying a quarter of what I owed in the first place so it worked out great.
 
2012-05-07 03:10:04 PM
$1500 for a bankruptcy? BS for a simple Ch 7 it shouldn;t cost anywhere NEAR that, and yo can pay the filing fees in stallments or get them waived. Ch7 forms really aren't that difficult. If you can do your taxes, you can probably do your own Ch7, with just a lttle help from a pro who doesn't necessarily ahve to be a lawyer.

Hell if money is the only thing keeping some farker from getting out from under message me (EIP) and I'll give you a hand with the thing (but I will NOT be your lawyer of give you anything that could be construed as legal advice, merely technical advice on how to fill out the forms and file-sorry necessary disclaimer)
 
2012-05-07 03:11:24 PM

Corporate Self: Corporations and banks don't want a strong middle class. They want a desperate working class:

People that will sign liar loans.

People that will use Payday lenders.

People that are so desperate they will work long hours in deplorable conditions to survive.

People with no power and no say in their own lives.


The former CEO of Providian said it best in a memo: Their ideal customer is one who has developed "a taste for credit" and "is bad at math"
 
2012-05-07 03:42:15 PM

Magorn: Corporate Self: Corporations and banks don't want a strong middle class. They want a desperate working class:

People that will sign liar loans.

People that will use Payday lenders.

People that are so desperate they will work long hours in deplorable conditions to survive.

People with no power and no say in their own lives.

The former CEO of Providian said it best in a memo: Their ideal customer is one who has developed "a taste for credit" and "is bad at math"


No joke there. And for the last 10 years most of us would fall into that category. Household debt has finally leveld off some, but it is still a very big problem from an economic standpoint
 
2012-05-07 04:21:41 PM

SDRR: Very true. Lawyers suck, and could care less about making mistakes while representing you because THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.


BS. It's called 'malpractice.'

Magorn: $1500 for a bankruptcy? BS for a simple Ch 7 it shouldn;t cost anywhere NEAR that, and yo can pay the filing fees in stallments or get them waived. Ch7 forms really aren't that difficult. If you can do your taxes, you can probably do your own Ch7, with just a lttle help from a pro who doesn't necessarily ahve to be a lawyer.

Hell if money is the only thing keeping some farker from getting out from under message me (EIP) and I'll give you a hand with the thing (but I will NOT be your lawyer of give you anything that could be construed as legal advice, merely technical advice on how to fill out the forms and file-sorry necessary disclaimer)


Eh. It used to be simple. Ever since the 2005 reforms, not so much. Depending on the region, not even all the attorneys and trustees have sorted out all the problems yet. Also, the court's are getting slammed with bankruptcy filings right now. In times past if you self filed and there was a minor paperwork error, the court might simply notify you and ask you to correct it. Now they dismiss the claim and make you refile (and keep your original filing fee).

For a person with assets the rules about what is and is not exempt are complicated enough that paying a lawyer $1000 to make sure you keep the most you can, and discharge the most you can, is going to be worth it. Just how complicated the rules are vary by state. If you're in a community property state, do both you and your spouse have to declare bankruptcy to discharge debts you incurred while you were married or not? What if you sell your home after you go through bankruptcy, will you forfeit your homestead exemptions? (in some states yes, in others no).

Now, if you rent an apartment, rent all your furniture, don't have a retirement account, don't have an automobile worth more than the loan, don't have much in the way of secured loans, etc, then maybe it's not worth having someone guide you through the process.

If you hire an attorney and the attorney screws up, you can at least sue the attorney. If you screw up on your own, you're risking losing assets you don't need to lose, or failing to get all of your debts discharged, or worse, ending up with a threat of a criminal prosecution.

CSB: An acquaintance of mine filed for bankruptcy, but spent the six proceeding months shifting assets into the names of her parents and ex-spouse. Person did not disclose this to the court. The bankruptcy was dismissed (meaning none of the debts got discharged) and the case referred to the US Attorney (who declined to prosecute, but still scared the crap out of the person). Worst thing about it, 90% of the assets they were trying to protect by giving them to other people would have been exempt anyway.
 
2012-05-07 04:28:17 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-07 04:59:03 PM

Talondel: For a person with assets the rules about what is and is not exempt are complicated enough that paying a lawyer $1000 to make sure you keep the most you can, and discharge the most you can, is going to be worth it. Just how complicated the rules are vary by state. If you're in a community property state, do both you and your spouse have to declare bankruptcy to discharge debts you incurred while you were married or not? What if you sell your home after you go through bankruptcy, will you forfeit your homestead exemptions? (in some states yes, in others no)....


Yeah, this. When I went through mine in '08 I had tried hard to educate myself about the process (I even got a PACER account to keep up with the filings), but even despite that I was still amazed by what my attorney had to do that I hadn't realized needed to be done to protect our assets. And besides that it was a good feeling to know that someone competent had my back through the whole ordeal. His fee was money well spent.
 
2012-05-07 05:33:22 PM

Corporate Self: EnviroDude: At last, a campaign issue that Obama can capitalize and use to buy enough votes for reeelection (in addition to food stamps)!

I challenge you to go a single day of posting without mentioning Obama.

I bet you can't do it.


Sure, I can do it....and if the bet were right.....I would think about taking you up on it.

In the interim, don't get mad at me for reminding others of the newest "crisis" facing the US (last month it was student loans, the month before that was condoms for coeds).
 
2012-05-07 06:49:34 PM
As someone who can't legally file for bankruptcy protection because I made a made investment at 18 trying to educate myself. Yep. This country is a sad joke.
 
2012-05-07 07:43:08 PM
Sorry man, you student loans go nowhere during bankruptcy, but you need to contact the Fed Gov's "American Student assistance" division. They have all sorts of loan forgiveness and income based repayment options that private lenders do not, and they are basically taking away the student loans from the private lenders, even ones made a long time ago
 
2012-05-07 07:54:34 PM

Magorn: Sorry man, you student loans go nowhere during bankruptcy, but you need to contact the Fed Gov's "American Student assistance" division. They have all sorts of loan forgiveness and income based repayment options that private lenders do not, and they are basically taking away the student loans from the private lenders, even ones made a long time ago


Already did loan consolidation. Which doesn't matter. They were all federal loans to begin with. When you have no job and no income it really doesn't matter. The only hope I have at this point is immigrating out somehow.
 
2012-05-07 07:58:27 PM

Franco: Magorn: Sorry man, you student loans go nowhere during bankruptcy, but you need to contact the Fed Gov's "American Student assistance" division. They have all sorts of loan forgiveness and income based repayment options that private lenders do not, and they are basically taking away the student loans from the private lenders, even ones made a long time ago

Already did loan consolidation. Which doesn't matter. They were all federal loans to begin with. When you have no job and no income it really doesn't matter. The only hope I have at this point is immigrating out somehow.


Yep, my feelings are similiar to yours but I filed for BK anyway because I simply could not keep up with the student loans and credit card payments.
 
2012-05-08 05:42:19 AM
After having my bankruptcy go through this last January, I can certainly agree with all of the statements. My parents paid for the filing fee (they took pity on me after seeing me bust my ass off the last year and a half working 50+ hours a week for overtime and only being able to afford eating scraps at the local Dollar Tree).

That being said, the process was smooth sailing. What pisses me off is the junk mail I keep getting for payday loans and other scams trying to help me 'rebuild my credit'. Fark you, I was smart and got a $150 credit card limit with 8% interest on, farkwads. I'll use that for a long time to rebuild my credit, and throw whatever money I can into my savings account.

/not so cab time:
/1100 net income month including overtime (this wasn't guaranteed though)
/435 rent
/130 utilities (elec, cell, internet)
/320-month credit card payments AFTER seeing a credit councilor
/30 car insurance
/100 hospital bill payments
 
2012-05-08 05:44:14 AM
Followup: Moved to a cheaper place w/ roomies, saved $200 on utilities/rent alone. Ditched US Bank and went to a credit union as well.
 
2012-05-08 06:49:12 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: I'm so f**king poor, I can't even afford to pay attention! *rimshot*


Do you have a refrigerator? Is it running?


I am so poor, I can't afford a free sample.
 
2012-05-08 08:22:03 AM

Franco: Magorn: Sorry man, you student loans go nowhere during bankruptcy, but you need to contact the Fed Gov's "American Student assistance" division. They have all sorts of loan forgiveness and income based repayment options that private lenders do not, and they are basically taking away the student loans from the private lenders, even ones made a long time ago

Already did loan consolidation. Which doesn't matter. They were all federal loans to begin with. When you have no job and no income it really doesn't matter. The only hope I have at this point is immigrating out somehow.


wont help you unless you surrender your US citizenship. as getting a foreign citizenship is difficult, that'll be a hard one to pull off.

Im american living in switzerland here. the US has strongarmed foreign govts to report income to the IRS. you dont get a w2, but they still tell the Feds how much you make and how you work.

even though i didnt earn a dime in the US, i still have to pay taxes and yes im still paying my student loans.

marry into money. thats your only hope of a quick fix. :)
 
2012-05-08 08:23:18 AM

anwserman: Followup: Moved to a cheaper place w/ roomies, saved $200 on utilities/rent alone. Ditched US Bank and went to a credit union as well.


not living with anyone im not sleeping with or related to is so worth the extra 200 for me.
 
2012-05-08 09:15:23 AM

Talondel: SDRR: Very true. Lawyers suck, and could care less about making mistakes while representing you because THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

BS. It's called 'malpractice.'
...



LMAO, that is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I have seen posted on Fark in a long time.....
 
2012-05-08 10:35:48 AM

mainstreet62: Threadshiat early, threadshiat often.


I have it on ignore. It makes threads much more productive.
 
2012-05-08 10:38:37 AM

Corporate Self: Corporations and banks don't want a strong middle class. They want a desperate working class:

People that will sign liar loans.

People that will use Payday lenders.

People that are so desperate they will work long hours in deplorable conditions to survive.

People with no power and no say in their own lives.


Throw in unable to control your own reproductive rights and you've got the Republican Party platform in a nutshell.
 
2012-05-08 12:04:22 PM
I got out of credit card debt before I got married and it was by far one of the best decisions I ever made. If this financial crisis is the primary driver of the death of the middle class, credit card death is the self-inflicted wound that just takes the normal problems this economy creates and magnifies them 10-fold. And credit card debt is where can't play the babe-in-the-woods routine and claim victimhood.
 
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