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(The Fiscal Times)   Economists now predicting a "lost decade" in the U.S., characterized by high unemployment, sluggish growth and rising inequality. Welcome to the Obama Economy   (thefiscaltimes.com) divider line 399
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2020 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 May 2012 at 4:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 05:09:54 AM
i249.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-07 05:14:45 AM

wademh: In the US it is popular to whine about the growing inequity between the rich and the poor but it's rather myopic.
Worldwide, there's been a redistribution of wealth from "middle-class" Americans to the rest of the world, China, India, Brazil and elsewhere. Yes, there's an imbalance in the ultrarich in the US but the pull comes from multiple directions and was inevitable.
Joe Average is simply no longer going to achieve the relatively luxurious lifestyle that US citizens enjoyed in the past.



Screw luxurious lifestyles.
How about being able to afford a place to live, decent food, and seeing a doctor once in awhile?
 
2012-05-07 05:27:47 AM
The GOP really needs to invest in a sticker brand of spaghetti if they want anything they are throwing against the wall to actually stick there.
 
2012-05-07 05:38:40 AM
I'm not sure if the subby is a troll or just didn't RTFA.
 
2012-05-07 05:44:29 AM
I am so sick and tired of the GOP having shat the bed and trying to blame it on Obama.

Yes, we get it. You're mouthbreathing retards who think you can convince the majority who, while not being as loud, are smart enough to remember what Bush did to this country.
 
2012-05-07 05:45:34 AM

Meatwad42: I'm not sure if the subby is a troll or just didn't RTFA.


Can't it be both?
 
2012-05-07 05:49:06 AM
Presidents *propose* a budget, congress *votes* on it, and can make amendments. They can also draft and pass spending laws without presidential involvement.

The president at best has only indirect involvement with the health of the economy, and all of government combined still only has indirect control. We don't live in a country where the government can force businesses to expand, or move. They can't force people to save or invest. They can't force people to have x number or children, or to take "good" majors in college. They can incentivize all of these things, but incentives don't always work.
 
2012-05-07 05:54:49 AM
Don't panic. It's based on statements by Krugman so the opposite is more likely to happen.
 
2012-05-07 05:57:11 AM

edmo: My retirement already looks like a lost decade with my latest statement looking suspiciously like one from 2002, and that's with me piling it in there.


Dow Jones on Dec 31, 2002 - 10073.40
Dow Jones on April 20. 2012 - 13,029.26

You are quite the shrewd investor. Mine, including contributions, has more than tripled.
 
2012-05-07 06:12:23 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

Approves of a mismanaged economy.
 
2012-05-07 06:13:55 AM
Ten easy things the US/Fed should be doing to prevent this lost decade if we didn't have a bunch of bought and sold chucklefarks in charge of our political systems.

1) Reinstate Glass Steagall, along with letting the Consumer protections agency have some serious teeth.
2) Have the Fed set a long term target inflation rate of 3-4% to encourage investment and get that two trillion companies are hoarding moving around the economy.
3) Raise the Federal minimum wage. Seriously. $10 isn't going to put your small business under. If it will, you suck at business.
4) Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts. Seriously. Putting the top marginal tax rate back to 39.4% isn't going to bankrupt you.
5) Scrap the Healthcare bill and get serious about doing single payer/Medicare for All.
6) Create a serious WPA style program putting a serious investment into infrastructure/high speed broadband across the US.
7) Create an after high school higher education program that helps high schoolers get some form of higher education - whether it's from a traditional four year state school or a Trade School.
8) Get the unions going again.
9) Repeal Citizens United and get the money out of politics.
10) Renew Community (OK, I just threw that last one in there for me)

/KOTWC OUT!
 
2012-05-07 06:13:55 AM
You didn't have to be an economist to predict a lost decade.

But yeah, more tax cuts for the wealthiest, cut benefits to the poor while raising their taxes, and spend more on War. Should fix things right up. We'll have full employment and no debt in a week.
 
2012-05-07 06:14:15 AM

themindiswatching: Fark it, I'm almost okay with President Romney. Mainly because we don't deserve anyone better.


Yeppers.
 
2012-05-07 06:15:30 AM
Well, you can expect this after not having the courage to let the banks die in 2008. Japan's lost decade was caused by the same thing, but ours is fantastically worse.
 
2012-05-07 06:16:23 AM
Yes subby, blame all the bad on Obama. Inequality that started in 1981. All his fault.
Unless that was sarcasm, then you need to have a better setup.
 
2012-05-07 06:21:31 AM

Lionel Mandrake: I blame Bush.

No, seriously, I blame Bush


Well, I blame Clinton.

No, seriously, I blame Clinton. Well, Bush and Clinton. Clinton created the bubble, and Bush popped it. A competent president, unlike Bush, would have slowly deflated it.

I think Bush deserves more blame, but you wouldn't have read this far down had I simply agreed with the other dude.
 
2012-05-07 06:22:12 AM

rev. dave: Yes subby, blame all the bad on Obama. Inequality that started in 1981. All his fault.
Unless that was sarcasm, then you need to have a better setup.


Never actually MET a Republican, eh?
 
2012-05-07 06:23:21 AM
The funny thing is the right will somehow blame it on Obama making a half-assed attempt to help poor people. Do these farking people honestly not have the insight to see the system is bought completely and has been explicitly impoverishing everyone for thirty years? The cognitive dissonance has stopped being funny and now it's just frightening.
 
2012-05-07 06:31:09 AM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Ten easy things the US/Fed should be doing to prevent this lost decade if we didn't have a bunch of bought and sold chucklefarks in charge of our political systems.

1) Reinstate Glass Steagall, along with letting the Consumer protections agency have some serious teeth.
2) Have the Fed set a long term target inflation rate of 3-4% to encourage investment and get that two trillion companies are hoarding moving around the economy.
3) Raise the Federal minimum wage. Seriously. $10 isn't going to put your small business under. If it will, you suck at business.
4) Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts. Seriously. Putting the top marginal tax rate back to 39.4% isn't going to bankrupt you.
5) Scrap the Healthcare bill and get serious about doing single payer/Medicare for All.
6) Create a serious WPA style program putting a serious investment into infrastructure/high speed broadband across the US.
7) Create an after high school higher education program that helps high schoolers get some form of higher education - whether it's from a traditional four year state school or a Trade School.
8) Get the unions going again.
9) Repeal Citizens United and get the money out of politics.
10) Renew Community (OK, I just threw that last one in there for me)

/KOTWC OUT!


I generally agree, but there are a couple of issues here.

-federal mininum wage ends up distorting things a bit, as there are very different costs of living in different states. i'd rather see that set at the state level, despite the risk of a race to the bottom in wages.

-the problem with the consumer protection agency is not that it is weak, but that it exists in the first place. One of the problems that led to the credit crisis was regulator shopping among firms, and confusion as to which regulator had juristiction. creating the CPA just adds to the alphabet soup of financial regulators: Fed, CFTC, SEC, OCC, FDIC, etc.

give the powers of the CPA and OCC to FDIC, and merge the SEC and CFTC together with some of the Fed's regulatory powers.

both the Retail and Investment banks would have one official, national regulator for each of them.
 
2012-05-07 06:40:23 AM

ghare: You didn't have to be an economist to predict a lost decade.

But yeah, more tax cuts for the wealthiest, cut benefits to the poor while raising their taxes, and spend more on War. Should fix things right up. We'll have full employment and no debt in a week.


Where exactly were taxes raised on the 'poor'?
 
2012-05-07 06:41:58 AM
The obama economy is the result of many factors that started before obama and bush jr were in office.

In the 90's, the shadowy derivatives market was overlooked for regulation and the repeal of existing many regulations is what resulted in the banks losing so much money. Banks, insurance companies, and investment banks were allowed to merge to become so large that we needed to bail out their loses and risks.

During bush's term, lenders and politicians thought that home values would continue to rise is what hit house prices and the construction so badly. On that mess's coattails is the commercial real estate market failing and taking away chunks of local and state taxes.

On the jobs' front so many corporations sent good paying jobs away to china and mexico. Those fired workers got paid less while upper management in turn was paid bonuses for increasing profits. When the economy tanked, many blue collars jobs went away and will not return.

I would fault obama for not calling out republicans. He should have attacked the gop over the job creator label for high income earners from the start, because the only jobs they create are servants. The lion's share of job growth is from corporations and companies owned by shareholders. He also should have attacked state and local governments for the cuts that they made because those cuts also deepened private sector job loses. Look at the how scott walker's cuts caused Wisconsin to be one of the only states to lose jobs in the last year.
 
2012-05-07 06:42:10 AM

dumbobruni:
I generally agree, but there are a couple of issues here.

-federal mininum wage ends up distorting things a bit, as there are very different costs of living in different states. i'd rather see that set at the state level, despite the risk of a race to the bottom in wages.


I agree with you on this... but it was simpler to blanket it with the fed minimum wage and let the state make it rise depending on cost of living. For instance, $10 an hour in SoCal or New York wouldn't help anyone all that much, and if I recall, the minimum wage in California/New York is already around that rate too. But remember, a Fed minimum wage is already there to prevent a race to the bottom in terms of wages. So maybe I'm overshooting it a bit, but I figure the nationwide average should at least be around $10 an hour.



-the problem with the consumer protection agency is not that it is weak, but that it exists in the first place. One of the problems that led to the credit crisis was regulator shopping among firms, and confusion as to which regulator had juristiction. creating the CPA just adds to the alphabet soup of financial regulators: Fed, CFTC, SEC, OCC, FDIC, etc.

give the powers of the CPA and OCC to FDIC, and merge the SEC and CFTC toge ...


Except none of those agencies are accomplishing what the CPA is designed (or rather, should be designed) to do. The FDIC should have those types of powers, but they don't, hence the creation of a new agency.

Don't get me started on the freaks at the SEC. I'd rather see that building burnt to the ground and rebuilt from scratch.
 
2012-05-07 06:53:48 AM
The Fiscal Times appears to be to the Financial Times what Sorny is to Sony... or am I missing something?
 
2012-05-07 06:54:36 AM

Meatwad42: I'm not sure if the subby is a troll or just didn't RTFA.


Welcome to Fark. When does subby ever RTFA?
 
2012-05-07 06:56:50 AM

Mike_LowELL: Taxbongo created zero jobs from 2013 to 2020. This is a fact.


Also a fact that Fartbongo has not killed any Bin Ladens between 2013 to 2020 as well. I think this is grounds for impeachment amirite?
 
2012-05-07 06:58:50 AM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: 1) Reinstate Glass Steagall, along with letting the Consumer protections agency have some serious teeth.
2) Have the Fed set a long term target inflation rate of 3-4% to encourage investment and get that two trillion companies are hoarding moving around the economy.
3) Raise the Federal minimum wage. Seriously. $10 isn't going to put your small business under. If it will, you suck at business.
4) Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts. Seriously. Putting the top marginal tax rate back to 39.4% isn't going to bankrupt you.
5) Scrap the Healthcare bill and get serious about doing single payer/Medicare for All.
6) Create a serious WPA style program putting a serious investment into infrastructure/high speed broadband across the US.
7) Create an after high school higher education program that helps high schoolers get some form of higher education - whether it's from a traditional four year state school or a Trade School.
8) Get the unions going again.
9) Repeal Citizens United and get the money out of politics.
10) Renew Community (OK, I just threw that last one in there for me)


Not bad. Only one wrong!
 
2012-05-07 07:04:00 AM

andrewagill: Lionel Mandrake: I blame Bush.

No, seriously, I blame Bush

Well, I blame Clinton.

No, seriously, I blame Clinton. Well, Bush and Clinton. Clinton created the bubble, and Bush popped it. A competent president, unlike Bush, would have slowly deflated it.

I think Bush deserves more blame, but you wouldn't have read this far down had I simply agreed with the other dude.


The power the average American believes the president has shows the depth of ignorance of our populous. There's this thing called congress. Now this might be a surprise to the average Farker, but they create law and pass the budget. Our President is actually very limited in what he can and can't do.

Saying Bush should have deflated a global bubble is like saying Obama should have been able to fix the resulting global recession. With what, Bush's stunning intellect and Obama's great smile? If Europe tanks, or the Middle East Explodes, or a hurricane wipes out a major oil producing area, which American president's fault is that?
 
2012-05-07 07:04:21 AM
Another thread where the Obama defenders will rally around their Clueless in Chief. You can always tell because they try to vote the thread down.

Economy suxars and it's bush's fault? I'm sorry, when was the last annual fiscal budget voted for in the Senate? How many trillions have disappeared without any accounting?

Obama would have done better to give us taxpayers the money than the special interest Wall Street and foreign fat cats.
 
2012-05-07 07:04:27 AM
"Krugman said premature budget austerity in the U.S. had forced the destruction of more than a million public sector jobs and lost contracting opportunities from reduced infrastructure investment. [...] Summers, taking a slightly longer view, pointed to the rise in income inequality in the U.S., which on the eve of the Great Recession had reached levels not seen since the eve of the Great Depression."

Definitely 0bama's fault and Republicans would quite obviously have done the exact opposite.
 
2012-05-07 07:05:50 AM
Nice troll, subby. Exquisitely selected, adminny.
 
2012-05-07 07:09:37 AM

EnviroDude: Another thread where the Obama defenders will rally around their Clueless in Chief. You can always tell because they try to vote the thread down.

Economy suxars and it's bush's fault? I'm sorry, when was the last annual fiscal budget voted for in the Senate? How many trillions have disappeared without any accounting?.


...and where are the missing children? Where do those missing socks from my laundry go? And what about MARY LOU!?
 
2012-05-07 07:11:21 AM
Whatever... The financial downturn started for my family and I back in 2004 when I got laid off from a very good job in Boston.

Who was president then, again?
 
2012-05-07 07:12:20 AM

keylock71: Whatever... The financial downturn started for my family and I back in 2004 when I got laid off from a very good job in Boston.

Who was president then, again?


Obama.
 
2012-05-07 07:12:23 AM

EnviroDude: Another thread where the Obama defenders will rally around their Clueless in Chief. You can always tell because they try to vote the thread down.

Economy suxars and it's bush's fault? I'm sorry, when was the last annual fiscal budget voted for in the Senate? How many trillions have disappeared without any accounting?

Obama would have done better to give us taxpayers the money than the special interest Wall Street and foreign fat cats.


the world you live in is small and pathetic. I pity you.
 
2012-05-07 07:12:51 AM

WinoRhino: 9) Repeal Citizens United and get the money out of politics.


Repeal? Just how does one "repeal" a supreme court decision?

Now the court can overturn itself, but the chances of that is astonishing low. We could change the makeup of the court, but again, not going to happen. Side note for the ignorant: congress decides how many justices are on the court; they could in theory double the size of the court.
Or the constitution could be amended. Then again that would require congress to remove their heads from their collected asses.

Which one of those would you consider a repeal?
 
2012-05-07 07:15:45 AM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: dumbobruni:
I generally agree, but there are a couple of issues here.

-federal mininum wage ends up distorting things a bit, as there are very different costs of living in different states. i'd rather see that set at the state level, despite the risk of a race to the bottom in wages.

I agree with you on this... but it was simpler to blanket it with the fed minimum wage and let the state make it rise depending on cost of living. For instance, $10 an hour in SoCal or New York wouldn't help anyone all that much, and if I recall, the minimum wage in California/New York is already around that rate too. But remember, a Fed minimum wage is already there to prevent a race to the bottom in terms of wages. So maybe I'm overshooting it a bit, but I figure the nationwide average should at least be around $10 an hour.



-the problem with the consumer protection agency is not that it is weak, but that it exists in the first place. One of the problems that led to the credit crisis was regulator shopping among firms, and confusion as to which regulator had juristiction. creating the CPA just adds to the alphabet soup of financial regulators: Fed, CFTC, SEC, OCC, FDIC, etc.

give the powers of the CPA and OCC to FDIC, and merge the SEC and CFTC toge ...

Except none of those agencies are accomplishing what the CPA is designed (or rather, should be designed) to do. The FDIC should have those types of powers, but they don't, hence the creation of a new agency.

Don't get me started on the freaks at the SEC. I'd rather see that building burnt to the ground and rebuilt from scratch.


you missed my point. the whole regulatory apparatus needed to be rebuilt. all you are doing by creating a new agency is adding to the complexity and bureacracy of the regulatory framework. you are still not fixing the problems of the FDIC, and since the regulators are seperate, you increase the risk of regulatory arbitrage and/or contradictory rules.
 
2012-05-07 07:17:40 AM

keylock71: Whatever... The financial downturn started for my family and I back in 2004 when I got laid off from a very good job in Boston.

Who was president then, again?


The market got nervous because they heard Obama was in congress at the time.
 
2012-05-07 07:18:02 AM

EnviroDude: Another thread where the Obama defenders will rally around their Clueless in Chief. You can always tell because they try to vote the thread down.

Economy suxars and it's bush's fault? I'm sorry, when was the last annual fiscal budget voted for in the Senate? How many trillions have disappeared without any accounting? You can look up this information, you know. The trillion+ deficit isn't "disappearing without any accounting", that deficit existed in 2008, before Obama was inaugurated. Now the battle is over how to lower the deficit, either we cut public benefits, or we fix healthcare costs, bring the tax levels back to before Bush, and end the wars. That's a choice we have to make.

Obama would have done better to give us taxpayers the money than the special interest Wall Street and foreign fat cats. So socialism? We should tax the rich? I'm sure he'd be willing to work with Boehner and Mcconnell on that right away! More like fat chance, you know as well as everyone that no matter what Obama suggests or tries to do to fix the deficit, he'll have to intentionally break it up or declaw it in order for the Republicans to not fillibuster, or just not do it at all. Party of no, they had that strategy outlined the night he was Inaugurated. Open your eyes, brah

 
2012-05-07 07:20:42 AM

BigBooper: WinoRhino: 9) Repeal Citizens United and get the money out of politics.

Repeal? Just how does one "repeal" a supreme court decision?

Now the court can overturn itself, but the chances of that is astonishing low. We could change the makeup of the court, but again, not going to happen. Side note for the ignorant: congress decides how many justices are on the court; they could in theory double the size of the court.
Or the constitution could be amended. Then again that would require congress to remove their heads from their collected asses.

Which one of those would you consider a repeal?


A couple of different ways.

1) A new case based on the Citizens United decision is brought before the Supreme Court and Kennedy gets his head out of his ass and changes his vote. I don't see why you think the court's makeup won't change. I don't think Thomas has many years left in him...

2) I also wouldn't set aside the possibility of new legislation or a constitutional amendment being brought up post 2012.

We already know court packing won't work. If FDR couldn't do it, I highly doubt in today's political environment Obama could.
 
2012-05-07 07:23:12 AM

dumbobruni:

you missed my point. the whole regulatory apparatus needed to be rebuilt. all you are doing by creating a new agency is adding to the complexity and bureacracy of the regulatory framework. you are still not fixing the problems of the FDIC, and since the regulators are seperate, you increase the risk of regulatory arbitrage and/or contradictory rules.


yeah... I kinda farked up my response... I reread your comment after I added my rebuttal and realized what you were actually saying. You're right. I think after separating the investment banks from the savings banks and having one regulatory agency for each type would be best.
 
2012-05-07 07:24:53 AM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: 1) A new case based on the Citizens United decision is brought before the Supreme Court and Kennedy gets his head out of his ass and changes his vote. I don't see why you think the court's makeup won't change. I don't think Thomas has many years left in him...


I understand how the Constitution was written with intelligent, rational descendants in mind to utilize it, but to have a man who hasn't asked a question in court in years, who's wife is an overtly partisan Teabagger... why couldn't there be a way to enforce neutrality and common sense in the court? We've made a grave mistake in putting so much power in the hands of 9 lifetime appointees, it's no longer a body that can be trusted with that level of control without some sort of watchdog group. Sad, but it has come to that in this modern time.
 
2012-05-07 07:33:45 AM
Wrong subby. It is the downstream effect off all the disastrous economic policies of republicans since eisenhower.
 
2012-05-07 07:34:18 AM

AmorousRedDragon:

I understand how the Constitution was written with intelligent, rational descendants in mind to utilize it, but to have a man who hasn't asked a question in court in years, who's wife is an overtly partisan Teabagger... why couldn't there be a way to enforce neutrality and common sense in the court? We've made a grave mistake in putting so much power in the hands of 9 lifetime appointees, it's no longer a body that can be trusted with that level of control without some sort of watchdog group. Sad, but it has come to that in this modern time.


Politicizing the court is nothing new. That's been happening for years going back all the way to Taft's time. The difference over the last thirty years and what has caused the most damage is how clerks are now selected for their ideological purity/rigidity for each justice. Believe it or not, it's the clerks who have the real unspoken powers in SCOTUS. They help choose which cases to hear and how each judge would react due to their ideological bent. That's the real shift that's happening.

The whole idea of SCOTUS is a good one, there needs to be referees for our system, otherwise, the legislative or executive branch can be imbued with too much power and thus topple the whole system over. Don't lose faith in SCOTUS just because the people who populate it now are a bunch of assholes.
 
2012-05-07 07:35:13 AM

BigBooper: andrewagill: Lionel Mandrake: I blame Bush.

No, seriously, I blame Bush

Well, I blame Clinton.

No, seriously, I blame Clinton. Well, Bush and Clinton. Clinton created the bubble, and Bush popped it. A competent president, unlike Bush, would have slowly deflated it.

I think Bush deserves more blame, but you wouldn't have read this far down had I simply agreed with the other dude.

The power the average American believes the president has shows the depth of ignorance of our populous. There's this thing called congress. Now this might be a surprise to the average Farker, but they create law and pass the budget. Our President is actually very limited in what he can and can't do.

Saying Bush should have deflated a global bubble is like saying Obama should have been able to fix the resulting global recession. With what, Bush's stunning intellect and Obama's great smile? If Europe tanks, or the Middle East Explodes, or a hurricane wipes out a major oil producing area, which American president's fault is that?


A lot of this was the dotcom bubble and other internal US policies, which may not be Clinton's fault solely, but the Clinton administration, Congress and the Fed are pretty much the groups to blame for much of it.
 
2012-05-07 07:37:46 AM
Ah, an "Obama Economy" thread.

This is where we learn that we're all broke, everything sucks and will never get better.

In an OWS thread, the same people will tell you that we're all rich and have no idea how good we have it.
 
2012-05-07 07:39:24 AM

Mike_LowELL: Taxbongo created zero jobs from 2013 to 2020. This is a fact.


He timetraveled back to the 60s to put his birth announcement in a Hawaiin newspaper. I wouldn't put it past him to have already timetraveled into the future to kill jobs.
 
2012-05-07 07:40:45 AM

Mike_LowELL: Taxbongo created zero jobs from 2013 to 2020. This is a fact.


Thanks. I needed that this morning
 
2012-05-07 07:41:40 AM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: the world you live in is small and pathetic. I pity you.


Don't pity me. Pity the people that put their faith in Obama to actually change things for the better.

After 3 years, all we have are democrat apologists throwing their failed explanations as to why we are still in the crapper while people are being paid less, can't afford to retire, can't afford college, can't afford a house, or find jobs.

And when the government boasts "8.1%" unemployment as good news without regard to the number of people that have lost all hope of finding work, you know Orwell was right.


/shooting the messenger?
 
2012-05-07 07:47:57 AM
Part of me wants Romney to win, and have the Democrats let him push his agenda for the next four years. Let them show how their agenda will "help" the country without the Dems to blame, and then crush them in 2016.

/unfortunately, we've proven to be fairly immune to evidence.
 
2012-05-07 07:48:04 AM
No, that "lost decade" started in 2001, when Dubya really started to effect the country.

Keep trying to pin this on Obama, who's been trying to clean up the mess that Bush-Cheney have made, while the republicans keep stealing the housekeeping cart, Subbo.
 
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