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(Denver Post)   Lawyer spends 11 years proving inmate's innocence. He offers to pay for her gender-reassignment surgery. "It was a very sweet gesture on his part," she said. "But he really needs to focus on taking care of himself first"   (denverpost.com) divider line 322
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22120 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 May 2012 at 8:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-06 10:20:02 PM

BigJake: Considering how that word has been defined down to mean "saying things I disagree with" I don't see how I could really take offense.


Bigoted assholes with an inflated sense of their own cleverness generally don't, so I didn't come into this thread with any lofty expectations.
 
2012-05-06 10:21:32 PM

BigJake: How precious. You have a touch of the 'burgers, don't you


You haven't even been able to support your own argument so far.
 
2012-05-06 10:22:35 PM

xebeche_tzu: Let me get this straight. If I have a penis, and I pronounce that I am female, the PC thing to do is begin referring to me as "she" and "her"? No wonder Jethro Bodine goes to so may Fox News Tea Party rallies. You liberals are scary sometimes.


No, it is not the politically correct thing to do. It is the polite thing to do.
 
2012-05-06 10:23:16 PM
I put two assholes on ignore over the course of this thread and it's suddenly quite smaller and actually readable.

Huh.
 
2012-05-06 10:25:41 PM
Wow. I actually came in to say the story was nice and not leave a snarky comment. I was surprised to see others agree.
 
2012-05-06 10:28:19 PM

BigJake: Felgraf: Wow, so Socrates was a pedantic truther?

Otherwise, you get "1+1 is 2"! "What? No, 1+1 is 10!", which are both right, but one's using binary and the other's using something that isn't base 2.

How precious. You have a touch of the 'burgers, don't you


... No, I just happen to be a physics grad student who enjoyed his philosophy class way back in undergrad.

I apologize if pointing out how two people can be opposed but still logically 'correct' is that foreign too you. Shall I try to speak in words you'd understand, instead?
 
2012-05-06 10:29:51 PM

saintstryfe: Well thank Christ we don't measure things by your biology, or crack whore parentage on your father's side would be common place.


They might be crack whores, but they're honest crack whores!
 
2012-05-06 10:30:46 PM
Reading the first 20 comments or so here made my blood pressure shoot up 200%.

Some of you are really, really shiatty "human beings".

Sincerely,

A liberal who's apparently scary for being polite to people. If not treating someone like shiat is scary, I'm content to hold that title. Thanks.
 
2012-05-06 10:32:24 PM

Felgraf:

I apologize if pointing out how two people can be opposed but still logically 'correct' is that foreign too you. Shall I try to speak in words you'd understand, instead?


Please god don't. Not so much because s/he's an obtuse sack of monkey dick, but because it's not good fun to watch the valedictorian play chess with the special needs kid.
 
2012-05-06 10:33:06 PM

Marshall Willenholly: For those of you guys who wake up every morning and don't have think "oh fark, another day of being a guy" followed by a day of pretending to the rest of the world that you're somebody you're not, enjoy it. For those of us with gender identity issues, it is an absolute farking nightmare. Be glad that you don't have to constantly question your personal identity and feel like you are living a fake life. It is absolute hell to be like this, and you will never fully understand what we go through.

Recent experiments with brain scans show that the brains of transgender individuals are physically different in the amount of gray matter as well as the active parts of the brain as seen during Functional MRI (FMRI) tests. So it isn't just a mental issue or something made up. Transgender people are physically and chemically different from cis-gender people. Believe me, I've spent my whole life telling myself that it's all in my head and I can just make it go away if I want it to. But now I'm learning that my gender identity was determined before my birth and there's nothing I can do about it now but enjoy it. Tranny-bashing Fark threads like this make me depressed, but it's also great to see other trans folk in here, as well as those wonderful open-minded people who accept us for who we are and love us for who we truly are.


Eff the haters in here, most are trolls anyway. The linked story is awesome and hopefully gives non-trans folk like me the courage to be better people and to accept and love people for how they feel and identify, not what society deems them to be. *hugs*
 
2012-05-06 10:33:16 PM

WhyteRaven74: You haven't even been able to support your own argument so far.


www.freeimagehosting.net
 
2012-05-06 10:34:40 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Anyone who comes away from that story obsessed with the fact that Joffe was born with a penis probably comes away from a good football game pissed off that the hotdogs were so small.


Let's just say they're dicks obsessed with dicks.
 
2012-05-06 10:35:57 PM

Felgraf: I apologize if pointing out how two people can be opposed but still logically 'correct' is that foreign too you.


No apologies needed, but if you're still in the mood to issue them, it should be for missing the point about 3 times in a row

Queensowntalia: If not treating someone like shiat is scary


Again with the scary stuff. It's YOU who find the world too scary, so you insist that either your own or others' fantasies be indulged.
 
2012-05-06 10:36:33 PM

BigJake: www.freeimagehosting.net


Actually I have supported my position. Not that I need to, seeing as you were the one who made the initial statement and it is up to you to defend it first. Me, I can say the sky is pink and so long as you don't support your argument, it doesn't matter.
 
2012-05-06 10:36:51 PM
I demand that you curtsy to my invisible friend, Teena. What? You won't? BIGOT
 
2012-05-06 10:37:26 PM

WhyteRaven74: Actually I have supported my position


No, you have not.
 
2012-05-06 10:37:27 PM

BigJake: so you insist that either your own or others' fantasies be indulged.


The only one expecting a fantasy to be indulged here is you. You're the one who wants to ignore entire fields of study.
 
2012-05-06 10:38:10 PM

BigJake: No, you have not.


So the mentions of DNA, brain structure and all that, don't count? Really?
 
2012-05-06 10:38:39 PM

Frank N Stein: bobbette: people will support and celebrate you for being you

Oh God. We're all precious snowflakes where we must attain people's support and everyone must celebrate us. It's a crime against humanity if people don't celebrate us.


That's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that in places that are trans-friendly there are often support networks and decent human beings who will react positively instead of losing their sh*t when they find out someone's trans. This makes a big difference in people's lives.
 
2012-05-06 10:40:05 PM

WhyteRaven74: So the mentions of DNA, brain structure and all that, don't count? Really?


Really. You haven't even decided whether or not DNA is important yet, for crying out loud (it is, and as with many other things, the confusion exists only in your mind)
 
2012-05-06 10:41:23 PM

BigJake: it is, and as with many other things, the confusion exists only in your mind


You're the one who insists that DNA is a black and white issue, even though that's not actually how it works. But do keep trying, it's entertaining. Or something.
 
2012-05-06 10:43:05 PM

WhyteRaven74: You're the one who insists that DNA is a black and white issue, even though that's not actually how it works. But do keep trying, it's entertaining. Or something.


Keep on duckin'!
 
2012-05-06 10:43:36 PM

BigJake: Keep on duckin'!


So care to support your argument?
 
2012-05-06 10:44:18 PM

bobbette: Frank N Stein: bobbette: people will support and celebrate you for being you

Oh God. We're all precious snowflakes where we must attain people's support and everyone must celebrate us. It's a crime against humanity if people don't celebrate us.

That's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that in places that are trans-friendly there are often support networks and decent human beings who will react positively instead of losing their sh*t when they find out someone's trans. This makes a big difference in people's lives.


And frankly, I'd argue it is a crime against humanity if you're not judged on the content of your character, but rather the gender identifier of your choice.
 
2012-05-06 10:45:44 PM

WhyteRaven74: So care to support your argument?


I have, and you have not. I'm not going to re-post every post I've made. Try re-reading the thread. Happy journey!
 
2012-05-06 10:45:56 PM

BigJake: WhyteRaven74: Actually I have supported my position

No, you have not.


You two need to get a room.
I'll record it.
and fap.
 
2012-05-06 10:46:26 PM
Also, while reading, maybe you could decide in your own mind (not that it will have any bearing on reality) whether or not DNA is important. You seem to be terribly confused.
 
2012-05-06 10:47:02 PM

CK2005: BigJake: WhyteRaven74: Actually I have supported my position

No, you have not.

You two need to get a room.
I'll record it.
and fap.


You have an iron stomach in both instances
 
2012-05-06 10:48:48 PM

Repo Man: El Freak: I've noticed that this never seems to bother biological women, but sure bugs the fark out of the tiny-penised dudebro morons. Why is that?

I'd say it doesn't seem to bother nearly as many women. But there was that recent case where a transgender woman was beaten by a couple of women for using the women's restroom in a McDonald's. And some very hardline feminists seem to have an issue with them.


And, in turn, I have an issue with them. Of course, in turn, I'd be called not a real feminist or some other BS.

I also have my own personal can't-use-Google-tonight issue that means I can't find the non-fiction short piece that covers this in my own damn state (it was in one of the Best American books, this isn't it but the same controversy. I understand all women festival, level of comfort, etc., but if someone has gotten to the point that your license now says 'female' then I'm sorry, womyn, they're one of us).

Christ, if your mind is so decided that you are a woman that you take drastic, drastic measures so your mind and your body finally match, darlin, you're a woman. Maybe we don't get to bond over memories of our first period but who the f--k cares.

That said, if I knew you as a guy and I slip up on the pronouns from time to time, a bit of forgiveness in advance.
 
2012-05-06 10:49:41 PM

BigJake: I have, and you have not. I'm not going to re-post every post I've made. Try re-reading the thread. Happy journey!


You truly are a master of "I know you are but what am I?".
 
2012-05-06 10:50:22 PM

WhyteRaven74: BigJake: it is, and as with many other things, the confusion exists only in your mind

You're the one who insists that DNA is a black and white issue, even though that's not actually how it works. But do keep trying, it's entertaining. Or something.


Sadly you are wasting your time on him, his mind is made up (in my opinion much like the Flat Earth people's!)

Kudos to the attorney and her fight for justice in this case. I hope she can get her surgery and live a happy and full life!
 
2012-05-06 10:51:26 PM
I don't care if that attorney is a she/it/him /black /blue or green, the point is that she worked her arse off to make sure that justice was done.
Good on her.
 
2012-05-06 10:53:28 PM

WhyteRaven74: BigJake: I have, and you have not. I'm not going to re-post every post I've made. Try re-reading the thread. Happy journey!

You truly are a master of "I know you are but what am I?".


He's smoking the good stuff tonight.

I'd let him go. He's got his fingers wedged so far in his ears he's bound to give himself a nasty infection.
 
2012-05-06 10:53:35 PM

WhyteRaven74: You truly are a master of "I know you are but what am I?".


pretend I posted the pot and kettle pic again
 
2012-05-06 10:54:13 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: He's got his fingers wedged so far in his


How dare you use these pronouns to refer to me, bigot
 
2012-05-06 10:55:04 PM

BigJake: Again with the scary stuff. It's YOU who find the world too scary, so you insist that either your own or others' fantasies be indulged.


I was specifically referring to this:

xebeche_tzu: Let me get this straight. If I have a penis, and I pronounce that I am female, the PC thing to do is begin referring to me as "she" and "her"? No wonder Jethro Bodine goes to so may Fox News Tea Party rallies. You liberals are scary sometimes.


Which has possibly been since debunked as idiocy, but I was too pissed off to read the entire thread.

But I should have made reference to it in my original post.

People should be allowed to live how they want to live (provide it harm none). It's part of a civilized society to treat them well, regardless of if you agree or disagree with their standpoint.

If you cannot find it in your hard to do so, you're not much of a person.
 
2012-05-06 10:56:16 PM

Marshall Willenholly: For those of you guys who wake up every morning and don't have think "oh fark, another day of being a guy" followed by a day of pretending to the rest of the world that you're somebody you're not, enjoy it. For those of us with gender identity issues, it is an absolute farking nightmare. Be glad that you don't have to constantly question your personal identity and feel like you are living a fake life. It is absolute hell to be like this, and you will never fully understand what we go through.


Being trans isn't something I'd wish on my worst enemy. It's certainly not something we just flippantly decide on.

bobbette: Why don't you live as the person you really are? Move to a different city, or hell, country. Move somewhere where you can be you and where people will support and celebrate you for being you. It will be hard, but it sounds like things are already terribly hard.


Having done just that, I can say it's often easier said than done, and often other things factor in on it. I won't go into my story in full detail, but trying to move ended 4 months later with me homeless, living out of a car that the bank was trying to repossess. 6 months later I ended up back where I started, staying with the one friend I had who was supportive, and it took several years to try again, this time with slightly more success.
 
2012-05-06 10:59:22 PM

Queensowntalia: It's part of a civilized society to treat them well


It is. This courtesy does not extend to requiring others to speak lies, however. I've never gone up to a transsexual and said "YOU'RE A MAN LOL" like a few in this thread would like to think. I've always been polite and I carefully avoid gendered language when talking with them. But I won't call them a woman because they aren't women, any more than I'm a sea captain.
 
2012-05-06 11:01:39 PM
I find it comforting that I can agree with pretty much everything WhyteRaven74 and BigJake have said. I've had along road towards understanding my transgendered friends and family. On the one hand, I really can respect and identify with the personal emotional, physical and social struggle that comes from it. On the other hand, I do find it frustrating how often I see words simply 're-defined' to support it.

Example: I know a gentleman who dresses in dresses. I like him. He's a nice guy. One day I asked him how long he had been a transvestite. He informed me he was not a transvestite. While I could accept this were there an actual transgender issue at play, I could not accept his rejection of the term as it so clearly applied to him, but because he was clearly male and identified as male, but was dressed as a woman. I will not get into the whole 'Why can't men wear dresses' argument though as that is another can of worms. I will continue to proudly wear my sarong around the house, even when company is coming.

So, in short, while I think BigJake is a bit out of the loop on the topic,but I have to agree with him taking umbrage over people applying personal labels to themselves while misrepresenting the English word associated to it. This infuriates me.

As for WhyteRaven74, there is a reason the posts show up in bright green and most posts force me to smile and nod in agreement.

You both have very valid points. However, this is Fark, so you're inevitably kinda being dicks to each other whether or not you think " 'e started it!" In my opinion, everything WhyteRaven74 has said is pretty much correct, but everything BigJake is saying is not wrong.

Especially the points on biology. You both are both requiring pedantry while simultaneously assuming the other had the same personal lexicon for specific terms. It's most the 'English' part of the conversation where you two seem to differ.

Now, if it is all well with you both, I shall continue to rule over my cats. I require them both to refer to me as 'Meow' and/or 'Whiiiiiiiirr'. That is all.
 
2012-05-06 11:02:57 PM

bakageta: Having done just that, I can say it's often easier said than done, and often other things factor in on it. I won't go into my story in full detail, but trying to move ended 4 months later with me homeless, living out of a car that the bank was trying to repossess. 6 months later I ended up back where I started, staying with the one friend I had who was supportive, and it took several years to try again, this time with slightly more success.


Hopefully this thread (despite the couple of dumbasses) gives you hope that there are plenty of us out there who support and respect you. I can't even imagine the horrors you must've endured. And the times, they are a'changin'.
 
2012-05-06 11:05:39 PM

BigJake: It is. This courtesy does not extend to requiring others to speak lies, however. I've never gone up to a transsexual and said "YOU'RE A MAN LOL" like a few in this thread would like to think. I've always been polite and I carefully avoid gendered language when talking with them. But I won't call them a woman because they aren't women, any more than I'm a sea captain.


It's impossible to avoid gender neutral language in articles, though. Thus, the she - it's a nicety. Much, much, nicer than calling her an "it."

What does it hurt you to start thinking of said transsexuals as their gender of choice, though? Nothing really. Not that you can ever really discard that knowledge, but you can choose to set it aside instead of letting it dominate your opinion of that person.

/Have only met one transsexual (to my knowledge...)
//am still confused
 
2012-05-06 11:06:47 PM

BigJake: But I won't call them a woman because they aren't women, any more than I'm a sea captain.


wiw.org
Yarrrrrrrrrr!
 
2012-05-06 11:07:20 PM

BigJake: The My Little Pony Killer: He's got his fingers wedged so far in his

How dare you use these pronouns to refer to me, bigot


Okay. That made me laugh quite loudly.

"Ses doigts jusqu'à ses oreilles." Better?
 
2012-05-06 11:08:28 PM
Am I the only one wishing there was a jew, a gun, and an athiest thrown in the mix somehow? Now that would be a thread.
Some of you are so farking crazy, if you were women, I'd have already dated you.
 
2012-05-06 11:08:45 PM

Queensowntalia: It's impossible to avoid gender neutral language in articles, though. Thus, the she - it's a nicety. Much, much, nicer than calling her an "it."


Just switch to German and use "das".
 
2012-05-06 11:11:05 PM

jshine: Queensowntalia: It's impossible to avoid gender neutral language in articles, though. Thus, the she - it's a nicety. Much, much, nicer than calling her an "it."

Just switch to German and use "das".


I can see you and I had the same thought.
 
2012-05-06 11:11:16 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Hopefully this thread (despite the couple of dumbasses) gives you hope that there are plenty of us out there who support and respect you. I can't even imagine the horrors you must've endured. And the times, they are a'changin'.


Thankfully, I'm doing much better now, though certainly not doing well by traditional standards. I've got more than a couple of supportive friends, and an extremely supportive boyfriend. Neither of us has a real job, though we squeak by on money we get from misc work. I've got no idea how I'll ever deal with my medical or credit card debt, but I've got a place to stay and a (crappy) car that I own, so I've certainly been in worse places. On the positive side, no one has ever given me a hard time here, and if I can scrape the money together I should be filing for my official name change late this month.
 
2012-05-06 11:11:33 PM

Acharne: incomprehensible post


So if I understand you, you don't agree that Joffe should be called "she" because you had a closeted transvestite friend? And that Joffe's desire to be called "she" or "a woman" is changing the meaning of the English language, despite that she lives as a woman, dresses as a woman, etc.?

Tell me, should she get the surgery, would you still call her "Mr. Joffe"? Because English.
 
2012-05-06 11:12:14 PM

redsquid: Am I the only one wishing there was a jew, a gun, and an athiest thrown in the mix somehow? Now that would be a thread.
Some of you are so farking crazy, if you were women, I'd have already dated you.


Thread needs moar circumcision and declawing, too .
 
2012-05-06 11:13:49 PM

bakageta: Salt Lick Steady: Hopefully this thread (despite the couple of dumbasses) gives you hope that there are plenty of us out there who support and respect you. I can't even imagine the horrors you must've endured. And the times, they are a'changin'.

On the positive side, no one has ever given me a hard time here, and if I can scrape the money together I should be filing for my official name change late this month.


That's awesome! Good luck to you. :)
 
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