Palooka_Joe: HMS_Blinkin       
 

-Tea partiers didn't give a shiat about the debt until the moment Obama took office. It might not be racism, but these people REALLY hate the guy, on a personal and less-than-reasonable basis.

Tea Party patron saint who was concerned about the debt when the Republican Obama was in office, Reagan.

Link

Yeah, that's one guy who was concerned about the debt before Obama took office. But that one guy is different from the huge mobs of people wearing tricorn hats with tea bags stapled to the sides that we saw spring up in early 2009. If there had been mobs of people out protesting the enormous financial burden of the Iraq War, then they might have had some credibility, but the fact is that the vast majority of tea partiers are more than happy to turn a blind eye when Republicans are the cause of excessive government spending. The government debt problem as been burgeoning for years if not decades. To pretend like it wasn't an issue before Obama became president, as the actions of many TPers seem to suggest (and as some have stated outright) is intellectually dishonest.

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Chimperror2: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

What about chickens? These appear to be the leaders of Occupy Cleveland.

FTFA
"We have a person facing terrorism charges on the lease of our warehouse," said one of the leaders. "If this gets into the media, it would be a disaster."

that is right. Instead of dealing with the issue, they just want to cover things up.

just like how they encouraged people not to report rapes and violence at the camps to the police. they would "handle it" (e.g. cover it up)

Well then I have choice but to vote Tea Party then...because that's the only option I can take if I think OWS was poorly organized.

how would you vote OWS? which candidates do they support? what is the platform?

Criminals, anarchists, and hippies, all rolling around in the mud together.

Heck, I'll bet they're all hopped up on goofballs.

Another gem: The quality that OWS is choosing their leaders. but .. but....but...their leftists!! How can they be burglars and wife beaters??? Apparently Hayne was the best of them if his background was the best for the lease. "Crazy Larry" sounded like the only sane one in the group.

FTFA:
At the time of his arrest, Hayne was wanted by Cuyahoga County for violating his probation. In January, Hayne pleaded guilty to theft and breaking and entering a Lakewood restaurant and stealing $2,000. He was placed on probation for 18 months. A judge issued a warrant for his arrest in April.

He served a year in prison starting in 2007 for beating his wife.

HMS_Blinkin: If there had been mobs of people out protesting the enormous financial burden of the Iraq War, then they might have had some credibility, but the fact is that the vast majority of tea partiers are more than happy to turn a blind eye when Republicans are the cause of excessive government spending.

you mean the Democrats, right? The democrats had the House from 2007 to 2011.

I think it is stupid to complain that they didn't protest the democrat spending earlier. Things take time to get to a boiling point.

Mrtraveler01:

how would you vote OWS? which candidates do they support? what is the platform?

I dunno but that seems to be the Tea Party's argument.

? Really? I thought the Tea Party has been mostly ignoring 0WS? I could be wrong.

"OWS is full of dirty hippies so support us instead!"

Uh no...how about I think both of you are run by morons and I make my own decisions?

which should always be the case. campaigning/marketing how does that worK?

tenpoundsofcheese: HMS_Blinkin: If there had been mobs of people out protesting the enormous financial burden of the Iraq War, then they might have had some credibility, but the fact is that the vast majority of tea partiers are more than happy to turn a blind eye when Republicans are the cause of excessive government spending.

you mean the Democrats, right? The democrats had the House from 2007 to 2011.

I think it is stupid to complain that they didn't protest the democrat spending earlier. Things take time to get to a boiling point.

So the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare part D, and the Bush tax cuts all paid for themselves until the Democrats took over?

Chimperror2: Another gem: The quality that OWS is choosing their leaders. but .. but....but...their leftists!! How can they be burglars and wife beaters??? Apparently Hayne was the best of them if his background was the best for the lease. "Crazy Larry" sounded like the only sane one in the group.

FTFA:
At the time of his arrest, Hayne was wanted by Cuyahoga County for violating his probation. In January, Hayne pleaded guilty to theft and breaking and entering a Lakewood restaurant and stealing $2,000. He was placed on probation for 18 months. A judge issued a warrant for his arrest in April.

He served a year in prison starting in 2007 for beating his wife.

and as a loyal 0WS person, he is going to blame the government and the trilateral commission for why there is an income disparity between him and some wall street guy.

cman:

I agree with you, the bank bailouts were emotionally...infuriating...to deal with. They made mistakes and deserved to fail for it. But logically, I get it. If those big banks had all gone down, they would have taken almost everything else with them. The only reason I can even tolerate those bailouts is because we ran the experiment of letting the failing banks lie in the bed they made---in 1929. Letting the investors and banks fail is surely emotionally satisfying, but what a price to pay for it. That said, there is NO excuse for letting ANY employee of ANY of the bailed-out banks make more than $60,000/year. There really should have been a strict salary-cap law that went with the bailouts, like no bonuses or pay above a certain level for 5 years or something.

In any case, with regard to the Tea Party, I just never had a good feeling about them---and as you mentioned, they appeared in 2009, and because they didn't start protesting at the beginning of the bailouts in late 2008, they lost some credibility in my mind. Maybe I am biased, but the TP felt too much like a re-branding of the same fundie BS we'd been hearing for years anyway----and that seems to have proven true to some extent.

tenpoundsofcheese: and people are surprised by this, why? why??

have you heard the violence that these people at these rallies promote? have you seen them throwing the molotov cocktails?

only surprised that it didn't happen sooner...but that is probably since they have such poor organization skills.

The Occupy movement is inherently, avowedly non-violent.

The violence is caused entirely by the police, and by opportunists unrelated to Occupy.

The only way you can disprove the above is by posting any General Assembly anywhere advocating violence. And you can't do that, because it doesn't exist.

Right-winger activists - your team - actually kill people. Occupy is non-violent.

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Chimperror2: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

What about chickens? These appear to be the leaders of Occupy Cleveland.

FTFA
"We have a person facing terrorism charges on the lease of our warehouse," said one of the leaders. "If this gets into the media, it would be a disaster."

that is right. Instead of dealing with the issue, they just want to cover things up.

just like how they encouraged people not to report rapes and violence at the camps to the police. they would "handle it" (e.g. cover it up)

Well then I have choice but to vote Tea Party then...because that's the only option I can take if I think OWS was poorly organized.

If he wasn't being sarcastic, he was being an idiot. That is exactly the opposite of the stated and acted on OWS policy. They reported rapes to the police, sent member with the victims to the station, and worked with the cops to catch the bastards. They also reported anyone in their midst causing violence and property damage.

Little things Faux News doesn't want you to know.

LordJiro: tenpoundsofcheese: HMS_Blinkin: If there had been mobs of people out protesting the enormous financial burden of the Iraq War, then they might have had some credibility, but the fact is that the vast majority of tea partiers are more than happy to turn a blind eye when Republicans are the cause of excessive government spending.

you mean the Democrats, right? The democrats had the House from 2007 to 2011.

I think it is stupid to complain that they didn't protest the democrat spending earlier. Things take time to get to a boiling point.

So the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare part D, and the Bush tax cuts all paid for themselves until the Democrats took over?

Thanks for covering that. This, folks, is what defines the difference between an honest poster (for either side) and a troll. The honest conservative will freely admit that their side has made mistakes or done things they disagree with. The troll simply pretends that every single bad thing that has happened has been caused by the other side.

as the actions of many TPers seem to suggest (and as some have stated outright) is intellectually dishonest

they are farking retarded. how can someone whine about debt that was handed to Obama without blaming the previous administration that spent money we just could not afford to spend?

how? by being a farking retard, thats how.

El Pachuco: tenpoundsofcheese: and people are surprised by this, why? why??

have you heard the violence that these people at these rallies promote? have you seen them throwing the molotov cocktails?

only surprised that it didn't happen sooner...but that is probably since they have such poor organization skills.

The Occupy movement is inherently, avowedly non-violent.

The violence is caused entirely by the police, and by opportunists unrelated to Occupy.

The only way you can disprove the above is by posting any General Assembly anywhere advocating violence. And you can't do that, because it doesn't exist.

Right-winger activists - your team - actually kill people. Occupy is non-violent.

It's also run by college students treating it like an experiment. They have no intention of getting anything done. Their discussion procedures are a farce and "vote" is a four letter word.

LordJiro: tenpoundsofcheese: HMS_Blinkin: If there had been mobs of people out protesting the enormous financial burden of the Iraq War, then they might have had some credibility, but the fact is that the vast majority of tea partiers are more than happy to turn a blind eye when Republicans are the cause of excessive government spending.

you mean the Democrats, right? The democrats had the House from 2007 to 2011.

I think it is stupid to complain that they didn't protest the democrat spending earlier. Things take time to get to a boiling point.

So the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare part D, and the Bush tax cuts all paid for themselves until the Democrats took over?

Did Democrats not vote for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Medicare Part D? Or the Bush Tax Cuts? Who signed off on the 0bama Tax Cuts? Or right, that was 0bama, a democrat.

HMS_Blinkin: Tea partiers didn't give a shiat about the debt until the moment Obama took office.

We were out here agitating about massive government spending long before BHO, and before the Tea Party for that matter, but nobody paid us any attention until, galvanized by the incredible jump in spending that came in the last months of Bush and early months of Obama, we organized and started terrifying incumbents. Nothing makes the establishment and its co-dependents more nervous than when the voters start eyeing their throats, electorally speaking.

What's really funny is how hysterical the Fark left-wingers get when the grass roots comes down against their side.

WizardofToast: OWS is a leaderless barely organized mass of young people that can easily bend out of control.

OWS is leaderless, but by design cannot "bend out of control" as you put it. It can turn inactive due to vetos, but it can't spiral into riot.

And no, it is not "just the other side"'s Tea Party equivalent. The TPs are very clearly anti-Obama Republicans. OWS is not aligned with any party.

WizardofToast: El Pachuco: tenpoundsofcheese: and people are surprised by this, why? why??

have you heard the violence that these people at these rallies promote? have you seen them throwing the molotov cocktails?

only surprised that it didn't happen sooner...but that is probably since they have such poor organization skills.

The Occupy movement is inherently, avowedly non-violent.

The violence is caused entirely by the police, and by opportunists unrelated to Occupy.

The only way you can disprove the above is by posting any General Assembly anywhere advocating violence. And you can't do that, because it doesn't exist.

Right-winger activists - your team - actually kill people. Occupy is non-violent.

The Tea Party is an organized mass of old people who are easily uninformed and in fact ignorant.

OWS is a leaderless barely organized mass of young people that can easily bend out of control.

Damnit, you kids and gramps can't organize anything properly.

yeah, but gramps got people elected and drove the shellacking of the dems in 2010 and are even challenging some of their own long term incumbents in the 2012 elections.

the kids, are doing the wavey finger thing and pooping on cop cars when they aren't throwing molotov cocktails at the police.

jjorsett: We were out here agitating about massive government spending long before BHO, and before the Tea Party for that matter

You were out here? Out where? The mean streets of Fark?

Lol.

You were most likely pissing your pants over Al Qaeda.

All this proves is what little cohesion there is amongst the OWS. I sympathize with their most of their ideas and absolutely support the original raison d'etat, which was criminal charges for the suits and ties that caused the financial collapse and regulations for corporate political influence, derivatives, etc. I don't like the camping tactic as a means of protest though and there are many flakes and crazies. IMHO they should get some sort of of "demands" or goals and do a huge rally or march. That level of organization would be hard to accomplish though, as they don't get their talking points from fox and friends.

ordinarysteve: All this proves is what little cohesion there is amongst the OWS. I sympathize with their most of their ideas and absolutely support the original raison d'etat, which was criminal charges for the suits and ties that caused the financial collapse and regulations for corporate political influence, derivatives, etc. I don't like the camping tactic as a means of protest though and there are many flakes and crazies. IMHO they should get some sort of of "demands" or goals and do a huge rally or march. That level of organization would be hard to accomplish though, as they don't get their talking points from fox and friends.

This. I agree with the movements anger, but thier outright refusal to create a list of specific reasonable demands, like "reverse FCC vs. Citizens United ruling" and "criminal charges against financial institution executives responsible for the crash," and take action to nail their thesis to the door so to speak disillusioned me very quickly. They can dictate stupid hand signs and play comittee, but they refuse to actually DO anything focused and constructive.

OgreMagi: cman: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

fark you

You gave no slack calling the Tea Party racist. Why should slack be given to OWS?

Why should they live by the same standard? Sure, that guy at the tea party rallies with that incredible racist sign that keeps getting posted in Fark threads was told to leave by the tea party organizers of that event and they publicly denounced him. Sure he had no affiliation with the tea party other than having registered a tea party related website for his personal use (which any idiot with a computer and ten bucks can do). He represents all tea party members just because.

To me, signing the lease for their building seems to be a bit more associated than waving a sign and owning a computer.

And what about the Tea Party leaders who have been caught making racist comments?

cman: I understand your POV. But, when things happen to us, we cannot put aside our principles for temporary gains. When 9/11 happened, I drank the cool-aid. I said "Torture those assholes" and such. I was young and I did not appreciate the value of principles. Though systemic risk was a very, very big and bad thing, I just could not put aside my belief that the Government should not bail them out. Bailouts for corporations goes against the very grain of my belief system. These companies deserved to die. They deserved the horrible death that awaited them, and they got saved to fark us up another day and drag us into another bullshiat recession.

I know it may be a stretch to compare torture to bank bailouts. But, I just wanted to show you my thought processes so you can understand why I feel this way.

Wow did I leave out an important word. FTFM and bolded so you do not skip over it.

I get it, and I appreciate the principle. We're not going to agree, but I can respect your opinion---because it holds up to a principle. Too many shills on both sides around here proclaim "principles" that always and only support what their team is doing. By having principles that you actually stand behind, you're doing better than about 95% of fark and 99% of the politics tab!

TheShavingofOccam123: I'm not sure what people think will happen when peaceful protesters are beaten, tased, gassed, and otherwise subjected to violence at the hands of authorities.

The authorities certainly knew what the eventual reaction would be.









BTW, the pepper spray dispenser Lt John F. Pike of the University of California Davis police force is using is non-issue. The report of the UC Davis investigation panel said the pepper spray Pike used was in a larger can with a more forceful nozzle than the variety officially approved for the police department.

You know. If blowing up a bridge is your idea of "fairness", I don't give a f*ck what your message is.

/would be just as happy to tell a Teabagger to kick rocks

Lionel Mandrake: ole prophet: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

Just remember that the next time a Teabagger thread comes up.

/not a supporter of either
//just saying

Um, OK

Wasn't really calling you out, but no-one uses the "smartest" button Fark.

OgreMagi: KiplingKat872: OgreMagi: cman: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

fark you

You gave no slack calling the Tea Party racist. Why should slack be given to OWS?

Why should they live by the same standard? Sure, that guy at the tea party rallies with that incredible racist sign that keeps getting posted in Fark threads was told to leave by the tea party organizers of that event and they publicly denounced him. Sure he had no affiliation with the tea party other than having registered a tea party related website for his personal use (which any idiot with a computer and ten bucks can do). He represents all tea party members just because.

To me, signing the lease for their building seems to be a bit more associated than waving a sign and owning a computer.

And what about the Tea Party leaders who have been caught making racist comments?

I don't follow them much since I am not a tea partier, but if true, they should be called out for it. Note, however, that tea party groups are very regional. The groups here in California would not have tolerated racist comments, the groups in Independence Kansas would probably be applauded for that shiat.

Google "Mark Williams Tea Party." This guy was one of the big organizers and thought it would be utterly acceptible to publish a racially charged rant.

And these are not the only incidents. I tried to be generous towards the Tea Patry, but after a couple years of stories like this from a party who members who, in addition, many if whom are "birthers" and some of whom have made threats against the presidents life, against his children's lives and it seems most Tea Partiers seem to think that is acceptible, it is obvious there is a strong current of racism in the Tea Party's motivations.

cman: HMS_Blinkin: cman: I understand your POV. But, when things happen to us, we cannot put aside our principles for temporary gains. When 9/11 happened, I drank the cool-aid. I said "Torture those assholes" and such. I was young and I did not appreciate the value of principles. Though systemic risk was a very, very big and bad thing, I just could not put aside my belief that the Government should not bail them out. Bailouts for corporations goes against the very grain of my belief system. These companies deserved to die. They deserved the horrible death that awaited them, and they got saved to fark us up another day and drag us into another bullshiat recession.

I know it may be a stretch to compare torture to bank bailouts. But, I just wanted to show you my thought processes so you can understand why I feel this way.

Wow did I leave out an important word. FTFM and bolded so you do not skip over it.

I get it, and I appreciate the principle. We're not going to agree, but I can respect your opinion---because it holds up to a principle. Too many shills on both sides around here proclaim "principles" that always and only support what their team is doing. By having principles that you actually stand behind, you're doing better than about 95% of fark and 99% of the politics tab!

This is a...first. I actually had a debate with someone and no one flung mud. That does not happen oft on the Fark politics tab.

And I want to applaud you both. That was very refreshing to read.

tenpoundsofcheese: how would you vote OWS? which candidates do they support? what is the platform?

You don't "vote" for OWS: you pay off their student loans for them. That's the platform.

Which would be a fairly moderate platform if they didn't all decide to go to Columbia and not work until graduation.

All Atheists are responsible for Stalin
No Christians are responsible for the Crusades.

OgreMagi: KiplingKat872: OgreMagi: KiplingKat872: OgreMagi: cman: Lionel Mandrake: News Flash: Large groups often contain bad eggs. Ric Romero reports at 11.

fark you

You gave no slack calling the Tea Party racist. Why should slack be given to OWS?

Why should they live by the same standard? Sure, that guy at the tea party rallies with that incredible racist sign that keeps getting posted in Fark threads was told to leave by the tea party organizers of that event and they publicly denounced him. Sure he had no affiliation with the tea party other than having registered a tea party related website for his personal use (which any idiot with a computer and ten bucks can do). He represents all tea party members just because.

To me, signing the lease for their building seems to be a bit more associated than waving a sign and owning a computer.

And what about the Tea Party leaders who have been caught making racist comments?

I don't follow them much since I am not a tea partier, but if true, they should be called out for it. Note, however, that tea party groups are very regional. The groups here in California would not have tolerated racist comments, the groups in Independence Kansas would probably be applauded for that shiat.

Google "Mark Williams Tea Party." This guy was one of the big organizers and thought it would be utterly acceptible to publish a racially charged rant.

And these are not the only incidents. I tried to be generous towards the Tea Patry, but after a couple years of stories like this from a party who members who, in addition, many if whom are "birthers" and some of whom have made threats against the presidents life, against his children's lives and it seems most Tea Partiers seem to think that is acceptible, it is obvious there is a strong current of racism in the Tea Party's motivations.

FYI, I was sympathetic towards the tea party at first. But when the fundies started to get involved, it left a bad smell. I still agree with their basic principle of reducing the size of the government and taxes and believe the majority of the members are NOT racist, but because of their being infected with racist religious assholes, I choose not to be a member. I also agree with the Occupy stance that big business has too much power in our political process, but there are too many anarchist and communist types involved in that movement for me to associate with them. Plus, multiple instances of the Occupy groups trying to cover up rape and other crimes is just plain wrong.

I never heard of them covering up rape. I did hear about organizers working with police and emergency services to help rape victims and catch rapists.

TheShavingofOccam123:

BTW, the pepper spray dispenser Lt John F. Pike of the University of California Davis police force is using is non-issue. The report of the UC Davis investigation panel said the pepper spray Pike used was in a larger can with a more forceful nozzle than the variety officially approved for the police department.

So what? It's still just pepper spray. Who cares whether he bought it at 7-11 or Costco?

/Probably means the protesters should be able to blow up bridges since this pepper spray nozzle kept them further away from the place they were told to leave.

I'm curious as to the thought process behind that anarchist's master plan. What did he imagine was going to happen as a result? Presumably, he envisioned something like this:


*BOOM* bridge destroyed.

Evil Capitalists: "Oh man, look, that bridge has been wrecked, I guess the only reasonable thing to do now is to dissolve government."

Evil Government: "Yeah, with a blown-up bridge, dissolving government makes the most sense."

Newly Freed Peoples: "Yay! The ruined bridge has caused our evil masters to surrender power and we now are free!"


Is that how it played out in the Evil Midnite Bomber What Bombs At Midnite's mind? How did he imagine we'd make the leap from bridge-bombing to anarchy?