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(France 24)   Socialist François Hollande elected French president with 51.9% of the vote. Commence with the surrender jokes   (france24.com) divider line 166
    More: News, French Presidents, socialists  
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6504 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 May 2012 at 2:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-05-06 02:40:51 PM
12 votes:
Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.
2012-05-06 02:41:38 PM
10 votes:
Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.
2012-05-06 02:45:59 PM
8 votes:

quatchi: So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?


austerity programs usually translate as 'f*ck the poor/protect the rich'. i'm sure that sort of plan is wildly popular with around 1% of the population.
2012-05-06 02:40:05 PM
8 votes:
The correct headline is "Hollande Conquers France" I just can't find any news sites smart enough to know this though.
2012-05-06 03:08:06 PM
6 votes:

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


You mean left wing ideas like the free market paradises of Ireland and Iceland collapsing? Or the left wing Goldman Sachs who helped Greece hide their debt to get around EU deficit restrictions? Or the left wing housing bubble that's bringing down Spain and Portugal? Or the left wing British banks that are still loaded with toxic assets which are driving the UK back into a recession? Or what about the left wing "Tiger of Eastern Europe" Romania, which was the fastest growing European economy until the global economic contraction took down their government? Exactly which left wing ideas are causing this massive continent-wide failure?
2012-05-06 02:43:47 PM
6 votes:
I think anyone who thinks the France/surrenders hurr durr joke is funny surrendered their sense of humor long ago.
2012-05-06 03:13:55 PM
5 votes:

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


Any American who believes we now have a socialist nation is not someone who should even be given the time of day. These are the same kinds of people who say we have a neegra muslin' for president who wants to take your gun away, and on the opposite side, people who believe jet trails in the sky are means to spy on us.

I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country. Unfortunately, misinformation (24 hour "news" entertainment) has deeply corrupted our collective intelligence. It's farking sad.

I'll believe we are socialist once I stop seeing hundreds of our citizens dying in doorways, on park benches, and in city parks year after year. And when I don't have to not go to my doctor when layoffs happen and I can't afford COBRA.
2012-05-06 03:03:49 PM
5 votes:

Snarfangel: I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.


well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed. so why not try a keynesian approach -- one that has actually worked in the past? (but if they do, let's see if they actually pay it back per the second part of the keynes model).
2012-05-06 02:57:11 PM
5 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.

If the system collapse in Europe it will DEFINITELY impact us here because we do a lot of trading with them. They're a part of the reason our recovery has been so damn slow. Same goes with China which seems to be denying itself that they're on a bubble.


yeah...now all we need is for the chinese bubble to pop and that's it - Great Depression 2.0 and we'll be knee deep in dominionist theocrats and evangelicals.
2012-05-06 02:42:01 PM
5 votes:

Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.


They hated France when Chirac was in charge and he was in the same party as Sarkozy. Fox hates France no matter what they do.

Headline flashing on BBC News:

"Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"

Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.
2012-05-06 06:57:50 PM
4 votes:

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


Practically every government in Europe from the end of WWII to, say, 1995-8 (excepting Spain under Franco, Greece under the US-backed Junta and of course Eastern Europe which was a bunch of imperial puppet regimes)was either run by or had significant input from a Socialist party. So if you want to know how a socialist party does things, just look at Germany, or the Norwegian countries, or England under Labor, or France did things during that period and you'll find out.

Politics is different in every country, so some countries had better policies than others (for instance, socialist, conservative, or personality driven, Italian politics is invariably a swamp). The basic idea behind form of Socialism though is a middle-road between Unfettered Capitalism and Revolutionary Communism. The focus tends to be on ensuring economic relationships are equitable, and that the economy serves society instead of the other way around. Social programs like universal health care or universal health insurance, free K to College Education, public housing and support for the poor, and a dedicated defense of unions in the workplace tend to be a big part of their agenda.
2012-05-06 03:40:56 PM
4 votes:
We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power. We want attractive people who are glib and have nice teeth and we fantasize about them having a beer with us. You know, failed actors and blowhards.
2012-05-06 03:10:24 PM
4 votes:
This just in, "hooray for me, f*ck you, GIMMIE" has turned out to be a failed economic model.
2012-05-06 02:59:01 PM
4 votes:

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


Scandanavia is doing pretty well and they use left-wing ideas.

But you're nothing more than a binary thinking troll so why should I bother?
2012-05-06 02:53:09 PM
4 votes:

Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.


when countries go broke all sudden like, they tend to get stabby. then then start invading other countries and stealing their stuff.

I'd really like to avoid another world war. can't we all just agree that this whole thing is the fault of goldman-sachs and put those greedy f*ckers on trial?
2012-05-06 02:49:27 PM
4 votes:
I hope Hollande not only ends up saving France, but that his policies will become an inspiration/blueprint to the rest of the EU (and dare I say, the US as well)? It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

It would drive the right wing so WHARRGARBL-y to find out that hey, socialism is better than "trickle down" economics after all.
2012-05-06 02:47:25 PM
4 votes:
Hollande makes Obama look like a hardcore Tea Partier, but Fox will still treat them exactly the same.
2012-05-06 02:47:13 PM
4 votes:

Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.


if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.
2012-05-06 02:42:24 PM
4 votes:
Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.
2012-05-06 02:38:55 PM
4 votes:
YAY SOSHALISM!
2012-05-06 07:30:29 PM
3 votes:

i has an internet: DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.

It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.


I'd say the victories of right-wing parties in Europe in the mid 90s to mid 00s were a result less of a general policy shift in Euro thinking, and more a sort of "changing of the guard" combined with rising nationalist feelings brought on by the EU project and heavier immigration.

By the mid-90s, left-wing parties had dominated politics in Europe for decades. Just like with the Tories in Britain, they were seen as old, corrupt, and worn-out. At the same time, right-wing parties could both claim credit for the successful aspects of the Euro(as they'd been advocating privatizing reform for years) while continuing to hold on to the support of nationalist Euro-skeptic parties(as they had also been resisting the "United States of Europe" concept for just as long). If you look at public polls on the issue, there was no drop in support for social programs during the period. The hallmarks of Socialist policy -universal health care, strong unions, a tightly managed export sector- all remained popular, and as the GFC showed, while plenty of voters no doubt liked the sound and propaganda behind "market liberalization" in finance, none of them (even the financiers) really understood what taking anti-fraud laws off the books really meant.

I more or less see the entire process as a "natural" development. Socialist govs rule for a long time, pile up inevitable scandals, and get voted out. Con parties get voted in but, because the Euro public is still widely supportive of Socialist policies, don't really change much outside banking and the structure of the EU where they don't need public support. The fraud that pseudo-Friedmanism naturally produces starts rearing its ugly head (first ~2002 with housing bubbles in Spain and Ireland), and when it finally explodes in 2007, people begin to think they've had enough of the right-wing. Initially, the governments that presided over the GFC took the blame (outside of German and the Nordic countries which have largely come through the crisis unscathed and without austerity), but as the rightist solutions preferred by the ECB have failed, the support for these parties of the neo-liberal consensus that the EU exemplifies has been slowly falling away.

I would say that in the next decade we will likely see a left-ward shift much like the right-ward one that ushered in the century. The success of Nationalist parties tends, in my view, to be the result of specifics; in Greece the voters are rebelling against outside influence, in the Netherlands, the problem has been and remains immigration and economic dislocation, while Hungary is a melange of EU resentment, Russian resentment, Russian nostalgia, xenophobia, and concern over their intractable economic stagnation.
2012-05-06 05:28:51 PM
3 votes:

Heb: Elephantman:

It's very strange the way "socialism" is now used in the US. It seems to have just replaced the vacuum that the "communism" bogeyman held, but at least communism was usually used accurately. Socialism seems to be a catch-all for "not as right-wing as me".


current day Republicans use the word 'socialism' in much the same way as members of the spanish inqusition used the word 'heretic'.
2012-05-06 03:58:11 PM
3 votes:

bunner: Oh, and to address your inference with a bit of honesty, he's the only dog in the pack who isn't coasting on sketchy laurels or a complete tool shed.


No, he's a complete toolshed who lacks the grasp of even the most basic of economics.

This is a guy who complains about the Federal Government getting too involved but doesn't mind it when pork or any subsidy comes to his district.

But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian".
2012-05-06 03:34:12 PM
3 votes:
Urinal Cake Mix: Turn into this:

Dear Women,

No.
2012-05-06 03:09:45 PM
3 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Fox hates France no matter what they do.


not quite. they're so dumb that they actually "liked" france when sarkozy won - for one reason only: because he's a self-proclaimed "conservative."

the fact that he's to the left of obama on just about everything means nothing to them. it's the same reason they think nazis were left-wing - because they have the word "socialist" in their name. (no word on how they feel about the DPRK)
2012-05-06 03:08:35 PM
3 votes:
On 26 January he outlined a full list of policies in a manifesto containing 60 propositions, including the separation of retail activities from riskier investment-banking businesses, raising taxes for big corporations, banks and the wealthy, creating 60,000 teaching jobs, bringing the official retirement age back down to 60 from 62, creating subsidised jobs in areas of high unemployment for the young, promoting more industry in France by creating a public investment bank, granting marriage and adoption rights to same-sex couples, and pulling French troops out of Afghanistan in 2012.

Wouldn't it be nice...
2012-05-06 03:06:42 PM
3 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Marxist Americans


i wonder how many actual "marxist" americans there are in 2012. i'm guessing somewhere around 20 or so.
2012-05-06 03:04:22 PM
3 votes:
if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.
2012-05-06 03:02:17 PM
3 votes:

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


Goldman-Sachs are left wing liberals...?

this collapse has nothing to do with socialism. its the fault of banks and investors running around without controls or even common sense.
2012-05-06 03:00:57 PM
3 votes:

TV's Vinnie: I hope Hollande not only ends up saving France, but that his policies will become an inspiration/blueprint to the rest of the EU (and dare I say, the US as well)? It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

It would drive the right wing so WHARRGARBL-y to find out that hey, socialism is better than "trickle down" economics after all.


shiat, actually doing nothing is probably better for the economy than "trickle down" economics.
2012-05-06 03:00:41 PM
3 votes:

WizardofToast: smooshie: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party could enter parliament for the first time if the exit poll prediction of it winning 6.5 -7.5% of the vote comes to fruition.

wat.

We never learned from the 1930's did we?


we DID learn a number of lessons form the 30's. what we DIDN'T do is remember those lessons. And you can't even blame one particular party or age group for this mess. a whole lot of people over a couple of decades all got together and denied reality, then stripped out all the common sense restrictions that got put into place to prevent another Great Depression from happening.
2012-05-06 02:59:38 PM
3 votes:
I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.
2012-05-06 02:59:04 PM
3 votes:
"But, but.. .SOSHLIZMS!" If you can install a government whose actual mission is to support the society it portends to serve while maintaining a robust but regulated capitalist engine and not steal or get fat with pelf on the public's dime, you will have done what every other leader in history said they wanted to do, and would do, but didn't. I don't care if you call it the burnt waffle and cheese sandwich party. "You can call the band 'sh*t' if the record sells" - Craig Balzer.
2012-05-06 02:57:56 PM
3 votes:
img689.imageshack.us
2012-05-06 02:45:22 PM
3 votes:

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.
2012-05-06 02:44:15 PM
3 votes:
I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.
2012-05-06 02:41:48 PM
3 votes:

Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.


Did they ever stop?

I think a lot of electoral chaos will be sweeping across Europe. Asia will stay on its various courses at least until economic collapse hits China, and naturally nothing ever improves in the USA.

♫ What a wonderful world ♫
2012-05-07 02:15:16 AM
2 votes:
OK education time. Lets talk about whats called effective tax rates. Its hard to get good numbers using Google going that far back, but multiple sources say that in the 1940's-1960's the effective tax rate was around 30%. Even for the rich guys. Yes their marginal hit 90%+, but their investment income didnt get hit that hard. So one side benefit of that was it was a better idea to invest in a company then to pull money out(which may explain some of the success back then). Currently (IE as of this last year or so) that number for the richest is around 17-18% I think. (you can Google this as well). So the richest pay half as much now as they did then. As does the average American.....The middle class incidentally get slammed the worst of all, which kinda sucks for us because it means transitioning from poor to middle class to rich is almost impossible.

Some links:
Link
Link

So here is an interesting thing-gutting the middle class results in lowering the tax receipts as both the poor and the rich can most easily avoid paying taxes. Ouch.

Also of note as taxes as a % of GDP have gone steadily down. Corporate taxes especially dropping. So really we have a tax collection problem....on corporations and the wealthy.

Funny thing how multiple people here talk about Greek extravagance. Obviously they haven't paid attention. Greece did have some extravagant things, but as a % of their GDP they spent less then the average EU country, instead their problem came about from....you guessed it. Not collecting enough taxes. Yes they spent less then the average EU country:

http://www.tax.com/taxcom/features.nsf/5379826c02267cd485257173000d68 e 0/ce758cb00a0cf6dd85257737005ac0d4/$FILE/figure_1.pdf

Wow those free spending....greeks? not so much. If we end up being like the greeks it won't be because we spent too much, it will be because we collected too little. funny thing, looking at greek spending as a % of GDP you could also argue they didst spend enough. I'm not mind you...but you could.

But but they're the job creators! Yes they are...when they are re-investing in themselves and in R&D. But guess what? They're profit seeking to the point where they hurt their environment, and DON'T create good jobs. IE Ford had it right when he said he wanted to pay his workers a wage high enough to buy what they made. How many folks making iPhone's right now can afford one? Yeah. I don't recall seeing any of those employees using them when I was there last, but I admit its been quite a few years now. But what goes on now hurts everyone, but none of them can stop because it benefits them individually, even while killing the prosperous economy around them.

So do we need higher taxes? yup. And corporations and the wealthy need to pay them so that we encourage re-investment in their business, and the middle and lower class make enough money to spend it on products that make us all more wealthy. Trickle down is a proven failure, trickle UP has historically worked well for capitalistic economies, however it takes good government to make that happen. Weird huh?

Now is the US broke? Uhmmm...no not really. What we are is greedy and selfish to the point that we're killing our economy. IE we're in deep water and instead of co-operating and working together, people are trying to stand on each other. Yes we have debt. 14.6 trillion I think it is? Rough estimate give or take a couple trillion, and give or take how you calculate it. in 2005 our total real estate was valued at 25 trillion, our GDP is 15 million. We are one year into GDP debt. For me thats about 107K if the last mail from my employer is accurate. That hurts. even worse is...we're paying interest on it. to who? Oh mostly ourselves. uhmmm...wait what?

Banks have a lot of that debt, and social security has purchased about 2.6 Trillion of that debt.
Link

in fact heres a good breakdown of that:
Link

And at truly low rates as well. Still not a good thing. BUT doable. Japans at 220%:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/government-debt-to-gdp

And still surviving. BUT we should avoid that level of debt. Heres the real problem....Keynesian economics say that in order to get out of the situation we are in you spend like a drunken sailor on projects that have long term benefits to your country. IE national road systems, dams, infrastructure. Bailing out auto factories is probably good, but bailing out AIG? Not so much. I do understand the thinking at the time however, and it may break even, dunno. And you go big or you go home. Problem 1: We haven't gone big. Problem 2 is about what you do when you are doing good, and when things go good the answer is "OMG deficits!" THATS when you pay it down. But instead Reagen, and many others said "deficits don't matter". Of course they matter, you need low deficits so that when things are bad you can spend your way out of them. I can probably find links to this, but I have no urge to cover economics for people, for gods sake folks-take a college class, and really get in depth and study this stuff. Its not rocket science, but it is occasionally counter-intuitive.

France has just elected a president that understands economics hopefully. And the first thing he is going to do is probably try and solve the crisis by encouraging EU re-investment. Only problem is that Germany really doesn't WANT the crisis solved in some ways. their on top of the ball, and really don't want to share. And who can blame them really? they entered the EU that way. They're better off spouting the austerity line all the way up until the end up in the toilet as a group. Then Germany can bail.

Greece is going to go freaking nuts. Yeah they've elected some neo-nazi's, big whoop, its the overall picture of their government thats going to be fascinating to watch. By not leaving the EU they've condemned their countrymen and women to chaos and suffering. They should be shot. And if things go badly enough they just might be. Because its going to continue to worsen.

The UK btw has clearly tried austerity and demonstrated just how horrifically dumb of an idea it is. Analogy: you're income is too low, and you sell your car to pay rent resulting in losing your job. Derp!

Anyways Good luck EU, you need it, and I hope things get better. Maybe this socialist in France will help, or maybe he will drag it all down. But I actually don't think he is going to hurt.

My fellow Americans, study this stuff. Don't repeat sound bites, don't fall into the belief that economics is the same as your household finances. Its not. Yes some politicians act that way. And when politicians say they will wave their wand and fix the economy, listen for facts and specifics. Saying "we will reduce loopholes" isn't enough(both sides say this). Seriously some of those loopholes serve a purpose-the R&D one for example, others though not so much. Saying they will cut safety net programs is a invitation to disaster UK style.

The Republican selection has been awesomely horrific, the democratic one seems slightly misled. Maybe 4 yrs from now we will see a better candidate, or maybe a president unworried by re-election will get his act together. I suspect the feeling I have now is exactly how the French people felt going into their election.
2012-05-06 06:34:22 PM
2 votes:

MeinRS6: jibberish


You are by far one of the dumbest, most insecure people to post on this site. Please stop posting - I'm pretty sure it's giving the rest of us ass cancer.
2012-05-06 05:27:46 PM
2 votes:

Elephantman: [ts3.mm.bing.net image 300x240]


Odd how this is a photo from the Depression Era when the Great Depression was created by rampant, un-regulated, laissez-faire, market-economy capitalism. Funny thing about that.
2012-05-06 05:21:40 PM
2 votes:

Mrtraveler01: leevis: I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.

I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe. The only reason they're in trouble is that they own a good bit of the debt in the countries that are actually sucking right now (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.)

Correct me if I'm wrong though.


By "better off" you mean *relatively* right?

Let me break it down - in the US the way money is created is what we call pulling it out of our ass. Treasury sells a bill of credit(bond, t-bill), our private corporate central bank the Federal Reserve imagines that it has money and then transfers it to the Treasury department that then prints/distributes. When commercial banks loan money, they do exactly the same imagining thing. Since every dollar printed comes with a built in interest rate, it means that the debt is mathematically unpayable using only the wealth within the system.

Now imagine every single economy in the world uses a system similar to this and you start to understand why any government that relies on debt spending to attempt to get out of a crisis is completely farked. It can't be done, quite literally. The whole mess has to be defaulted on sooner or later, either through hyper-inflation or through an outright bankruptcy.

Also, systems like this tend to exaggerate the already present imperialistic tendencies of governments because it allows the countries at the top to bring more wealth into their economy than what they created, thus easing the debt burden.

Debt eventually builds to the point of being unserviceable, happens all the time, and the thought that governments are somehow immune is laughable- they are economic actors that have taken the power to improv, but they aren't capable of changing the direction of the piece.

Euro is going down. Thanks to the work by the Trilateral Commission of integrating our economies, it will then domino into the dollar and probably the yen. Expect a new global currency to be offered up at G8 and G20 meetings.

Snarfangel: cameroncrazy1984: bunner: Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]

I think we're done here. I know I am.

It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.

I like his idea to drop the embargo on Cuba.


Me, too.

I like his idea to redeploy all US troops to US soil. I like F.A. Hayeks idea to legalize private mints to begin coining their own currencies to compete with government ones which Doc is pushing and Paul Krugman has never even heard of by his own admission. I like his budget proposal with defunds five cabinet departments effective immediately. I like the idea of getting rid of DHS, TSA, and most other alphabet soup agencies. I like the idea of giving 25 year olds and younger the ability to opt out of Social Security and Medicare(I'm 33 so I get nothing out of this except a better future for my kids). I like the idea of repealing the entire HMO system created by US Congress. I like idea of a federal budget that a trillion dollars lighter than the previous year. I like the idea of repealing the two executive orders that took the US off of the gold standard and the slowly phasing in a gold and silver standard again(fun fact, the executive order that resulted in the Kennedy silver certificates in the 60's has never been rescinded). I like the idea of having US Treasury stop printing up T-bills and instead start simply printing "U.S. NOTES", which come with no interest attached at all. I like the idea of ending all foreign aid to all countries effective immediately.

I could go on, but why bother, you're just going to respond with the word "derp" as though that were an actual argument. Keep doing that all you want, but the young-ins are reading up on fractional reserve banking, Austrian School economics, and the basic texts of liberty by authors like Bastiat and Locke. The pendulum is swinging our way.
2012-05-06 05:17:05 PM
2 votes:

LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.


Despite the fact that the goose then promptly tucks that egg straight back up it's ass and bills you for the delivery room.

www.aaanything.net
Heb
2012-05-06 04:51:58 PM
2 votes:

MeinRS6: Heb: MeinRS6: Heb: I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment

Yeah. I feel really bad about posting sarcasm on Fark. The horror.

but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?

Does google not work at your house?

I had always understood that the point of sarcasm was to make fun of something else, rather than to make yourself look like an idiot.

/facepalm

It's not my problem if you don't get the joke.


I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke. Crying that the audience is laughing at you instead of with you isn't helping your cause either.
2012-05-06 04:05:48 PM
2 votes:

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl states and protecting those rights unless those states say otherwise.


FTFY

/Now THAT'S Honesty!
2012-05-06 04:05:27 PM
2 votes:

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl and protecting those rights.


except when it comes to women and their bodies
2012-05-06 04:02:34 PM
2 votes:

Mrtraveler01: But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian


Also "smart"
2012-05-06 03:46:35 PM
2 votes:

bunner: We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power.


I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.
2012-05-06 03:39:16 PM
2 votes:

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.


He already mentioned the military.
2012-05-06 03:38:57 PM
2 votes:

xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?


People with brains realize every industrial nation has a mixed economy. Socialism and capitalism don't exist in any pure form.
2012-05-06 03:36:17 PM
2 votes:

ultraholland: Urinal Cake Mix: Turn into this:

Dear Women,

No. Take the ride, get off when it stops. Dignity is a lot more beautiful than silicone.


FIFM
2012-05-06 03:31:56 PM
2 votes:
Here's a question. Why would electing a socialist be a bad thing? I'm not for the idea or against it, simply because the knowledge that I have of the current state of France is borderline ignorant. Sure they're pretty much #2 in the Euro Zone and have a lot of say with the power of the purse, but my knowledge of the situation is equal to that of knowing how to do chemistry (knowing more than some, but not enough to grasp it and make it easy).

This may be what Europe needs or not need.

Why yes, I am in America. That is beside the point if you think you are going to come up with some witty remark about how Americans are ignorant, you can stop. Enlighten me on the situation rather than make a mockery of what I don't know, simply because I'm asking a simple question.
2012-05-06 03:29:09 PM
2 votes:
Call me when the western world pulls it's head out of it's ass, waves it's arms, and shouts "DO OVER!". Until then the dog and pony show is just trying to convince people that we're supposed to be in this hand basket.
2012-05-06 03:26:47 PM
2 votes:

montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.


the weird thing is, if you take out the moronic sarcasm, he's right.
2012-05-06 03:20:33 PM
2 votes:

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


well...the right wing bankers DID cause the problem in the first place. might as well try something else, right?

or did you seriously mean to suggest that the world needs to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, while hoping that THIS time things will be different?
2012-05-06 03:16:41 PM
2 votes:

ontariolightning: ill never understand why americans are so scared of taxes
no wonder their infrastructure is shiat


a major part of the problem is we don't see any of the benefits of taxes (or very few, anyway). i've lived in sweden, finland, france and switzerland. there, you see great roads, nice schools, cheap education, free healthcare, etc. etc. so, yes, you pay high taxes, but you get something for it.

here we see elective wars and bridges to nowhere.

it's been 80 years since the new deal and 60 since eisenhower built the interstates. people have forgotten that government can do good.
2012-05-06 03:13:53 PM
2 votes:
Hollande will have to face reality just like Sarkozy did. And embrace the loving hug of Mother Merkel.
2012-05-06 03:07:15 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.


The global economy is now an etch a sketch with no silver on the screen. Time to shake it and start over. We need to stop blowing bubbles and the people who crate them.
2012-05-06 03:06:50 PM
2 votes:

Hagbardr: Decades from now, people will look back on the austerity measures and wonder what the hell they were thinking.


And five years after, everyone will have forgotten and try it again.
2012-05-06 03:06:16 PM
2 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.

They hated France when Chirac was in charge and he was in the same party as Sarkozy. Fox hates France no matter what they do.

Headline flashing on BBC News:

"Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"

Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.


I'm pretty sure you hear every American politician say that. Before and after which they tell their audience that half of the country wants to destroy everything that America stands for.
2012-05-06 03:02:29 PM
2 votes:
The whole world economy needs to crash so we can start over
2012-05-06 03:02:15 PM
2 votes:

T-Servo: How the far-right was the real winner in French elections.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but... I'll miss Carla Bruni.


So the far right was able to pull the losers farther right. Yep, big winners there, manipulating the people who end up with no power. I predict similar "big wins" by the Tea party this fall here in the US.
2012-05-06 02:56:13 PM
2 votes:
So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?
2012-05-06 02:53:44 PM
2 votes:

quickdraw: Well so much for the EU the way Germany wants it.


It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
2012-05-06 02:53:03 PM
2 votes:

Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.


If the system collapse in Europe it will DEFINITELY impact us here because we do a lot of trading with them. They're a part of the reason our recovery has been so damn slow. Same goes with China which seems to be denying itself that they're on a bubble.
2012-05-06 02:51:01 PM
2 votes:
According to some articles, it appears the French 'wealthy' are eyeing a surrender across the channel...

...just like Alec Baldwin fled when GWB was elected...
2012-05-06 02:50:58 PM
2 votes:

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


He opposes the european austerity measures and wants to actually try and rebuild the economy before trying to pay down debts. I'm sure he has other goals, but that's what he was elected on. Sarkozy was for austerity and the German plan, Hollande was opposed.
2012-05-06 02:50:20 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.


Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.
2012-05-06 02:47:05 PM
2 votes:

Mrtraveler01: I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe.


Depends on the metric. I mean, they are a large country so they have a lot of stuff, but they do have very high unemployment and they have serious social problems.
2012-05-06 02:46:00 PM
2 votes:

leevis: I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.


I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe. The only reason they're in trouble is that they own a good bit of the debt in the countries that are actually sucking right now (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.)

Correct me if I'm wrong though.
2012-05-06 02:44:48 PM
2 votes:
Well so much for the EU the way Germany wants it.
2012-05-06 02:44:37 PM
2 votes:
It's back to freedom fries for this here red-blooded American.
2012-05-06 02:44:31 PM
2 votes:

jagabaya: Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.


I did respect the man's taste when it came to women's posteriors.

3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-05-06 02:42:50 PM
2 votes:
So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?
2012-05-06 02:39:27 PM
2 votes:
Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.
2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
2 votes:
Still better than Obama.
2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
2 votes:
Still less Socialist than Obama, because Obama keeps it a secret.
2012-05-07 07:19:17 AM
1 votes:
Good.

This is what happens when you try to make the poor and middle classes pay for the excesses and avarice of the wealthy elite.
Heb
2012-05-07 03:20:12 AM
1 votes:

hurdboy: Mrtraveler01: France isn't that bad off is it?

S&P already downgraded them (shortly after the US downgrade). Whether or not you believe S&P is another matter.....but nobody in Europe is really in great shape. Eighteen months of a spend-your-way-to-prosperity government won't help matters. The US is a pretty good example of that.


Eh? The US is an example of spending promoting growth. Obama has managed to save US industry, shrink the public sector, and grow the private sector. He saved the US (and your credit rating downgrade was due to the Republicans political shenanigans).

Outside the US he is widely thought to have done an incredible job. But I appreciate that in the US this may not be as important as abortion or something.
2012-05-06 07:42:50 PM
1 votes:

Egalitarian: I am probably the only one who thinks, in response to French surrender jokes, that it was French fur traders who were the first white men to venture into a lot of North America. Hard to be a frightened surrender monkey if you're roughing it in a strange land inhabited by people who don't speak anything remotely like your language.

Also wasn't there a situation in Africa a few years ago where French marines evacuated a bunch of Westerners while the U.S. stood around with its hands behind its backs?


Ssshhh! Nahn wun wun! Cheese eaters! Stop screwing around with decade old propaganda talking points, you commie terr'ist!

70 odd years ago, half of western Europe was bombed into oblivion and they manned up and rebuilt it and we helped kick out the bad guys, but it didn't happen on our soil, so the world kept turning.

About 40 years ago, we were ass deep in Viet Nam, but that was just on TeeVee and not three blocks over from the corner store, so the world kept turning. Then we lost a few thousand lives and a couple of buildings and IT HAPPENED HOLY SH*T IN NEW YORK!!! And we decided that the world stopped turning then and there. And the rest of the world decided it didn't.

But we held fast and watched decade of Keystone Cops vignettes play out while hunting down the alleged perpetrators - when we weren't listening to our president tell us that "finding Bin Laden isn't important", that is - and our patriotic job creators used this rather useful distraction to empty out our coffers and f*k off to Asia with the money and we're still told that anybody who isn't hiding under their beds is a traitor. Today's terrorist alert level is brown. But that doesn't stop us from trying to pass judgment on what some other country sees as the best way to pilot their national ship of state. America. Is was this a great country, or what?
2012-05-06 06:49:47 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.


It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.
2012-05-06 06:45:24 PM
1 votes:

Serious Black: cameroncrazy1984: LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried

You realize that's the same argument that Communists use, right?

Proving once and for all that the political spectrum is circular.


I feel more dumb after reading his blog.
2012-05-06 06:42:21 PM
1 votes:

LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried


You realize that's the same argument that Communists use, right?
2012-05-06 06:41:36 PM
1 votes:

LawrencePerson: Maybe we'll finally see that Eurozone crash.


I hope you're not rooting for that. Because it will fark us over as well.

/BTW: Your blog sucks
2012-05-06 06:28:32 PM
1 votes:

Frank N Stein: I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.


so do you think we should put Glass-Steagal back into place?
2012-05-06 06:22:35 PM
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.

Also, no argument.


another weird thing? the Occupy movement (among others) wants to reinstate Glass-Steagal. quite a lot of very smart people who's job it is to study this exact issue agree that we really should put something very much like Glass-Steagal back into place. But wall street (and the Republicans, to be specific) won't do agree to it. many of our systemic issues started shortly after the repeal of Glass-Steagal. things worked very well when Glass-Steagal was in place....plenty of experts thing Glass-Steagal should be put back into place....but we're not even going to discuss the issue. To my knowledge, a replacement to Glass-Stegal isn't even in the legislative queue, nor will it be so in the future.

why? well...I think I know the answer to that one...but I'll throw it out to the masses to chew on for a bit and see what reponse I get.
2012-05-06 06:21:39 PM
1 votes:

Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.


I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.
2012-05-06 06:18:34 PM
1 votes:

LordBollocks: A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.


A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.
2012-05-06 06:01:41 PM
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.


oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.
2012-05-06 05:58:05 PM
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: anyways - the argument over fiat vs hard currency is pointless digression. the issue that got all of us into trouble wasn't the type of money we all use, it's the fact that we have some very bad actors out there who gamed the system for their own personal benefit then when it came time to pay up they stuck the rest of us with the check.

No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.


yup. if we'd been using gold back dollars they would have changed up the scams a bit and we'd STILL be several trillion in the hole. well, several trillion coverted to whatever number you'd use to convert fiat money to the gold standard currency rate.

that's one of the things that bothers me about our current situation...we KNOW we've got bad actors mucking up the system. but we won't conduct an investigation, nor will we revise our regulatory status. we spend more going after legal cannabis distributors than we do investigating the banks who robbed THE ENTIRE WORLD of several trillion dollars.
2012-05-06 05:52:36 PM
1 votes:

Sergeant Grumbles: No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars


Excellent comment.
2012-05-06 05:50:55 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: anyways - the argument over fiat vs hard currency is pointless digression. the issue that got all of us into trouble wasn't the type of money we all use, it's the fact that we have some very bad actors out there who gamed the system for their own personal benefit then when it came time to pay up they stuck the rest of us with the check.


No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.
2012-05-06 05:42:07 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: Sarkozy may have had his faults and flaws but Hollande is a total retard. His plans are for a 75% top tax rate and basically to ignore already negotiated treaties. But because he is a leftist, 90% of fark is now doubt fapping to the fact that he was elected


I support Hollande as a conservative in Spain because the double right alliance between France and Germany is killing us right now. Hollande has a more European vision and realises that the German fear of any inflation is absolutely ridiculous and the continent truly needs an active ECB to make sure they have markets to sell their shiat to. Basically the Eurozone really needs an informed debate about ideas for the union, not just lock-step behind the Germans.
2012-05-06 05:33:43 PM
1 votes:
Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy.

thatsglitchy.com

/keep rehashing those old talkin' points tho!
//brainwashing amurikans ftw!!!
2012-05-06 05:29:14 PM
1 votes:

quatchi: You do realize that America, like all western nations, has an economy and political system that is a hybrid of both socialism and capitalism and that you could just as easily say "capitalism, making everyone equally poor since 1917" and make the same amount of sense?


You can say it's a hybrid, but that might create an impression that the two parts are equally mixed. If our society is some sort of "capitalist-socialist" hybrid, capitalism is the dominant component.
Heb
2012-05-06 05:27:33 PM
1 votes:

Elephantman:


It's very strange the way "socialism" is now used in the US. It seems to have just replaced the vacuum that the "communism" bogeyman held, but at least communism was usually used accurately. Socialism seems to be a catch-all for "not as right-wing as me".
2012-05-06 05:25:54 PM
1 votes:

Elephantman: [ts3.mm.bing.net image 300x240]


You do realize that America, like all western nations, has an economy and political system that is a hybrid of both socialism and capitalism and that you could just as easily say "capitalism, making everyone equally poor since 1917" and make the same amount of sense?

You didn't know that? Oh, dear. Well, never mind. Carry on then.
Heb
2012-05-06 05:00:36 PM
1 votes:

MeinRS6: Heb: I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke.

I'm entirely certain that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Do you even know what you are trying to attack me about now? Just STFU. No one cares.


I'm not trying to attack you at all. Why would I? I was just helpfully pointing out that you've made yourself look like an idiot, but willingly concede that it is your right to continue to do so.

And may I say, you are doing a grand job.
2012-05-06 04:57:40 PM
1 votes:

The_Gallant_Gallstone: LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?


I'd rather have a strong middle class than a strong wealthy class.
Heb
2012-05-06 04:49:11 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.


The US had a 70% top rate of tax in 1981. 75% isn't unreasonable at all, though I've no idea at what amount he is suggesting the top rate kicks in.
2012-05-06 04:41:39 PM
1 votes:

bunner: cameroncrazy1984: It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.

So, you're trying to attack ME and not Ron Paul? Why should I try and sell you something you turned your nose up at? I don't give a William nor Nilliam polly wolly doo dah f*ck if you vote for a character from the Simpsons and frankly, it would matter about as much if you did. You don't like Ron Paul. I get it. Now then, do I owe you money or something?


I'm just interested to find out why you think "he's different" is a reason for supporting him, and not "his ideas would work," because you've spent this entire thread saying that "the same people" don't work and that Ron Paul isn't "the same people" so somehow that means he's the better choice. Especially considering there are a lot of other politicians who recognize the same problems with the economy and government that Ron Paul appears to, however their ideas aren't as radical as "end the fed" and "use the gold standard."

What makes Ron Paul "different" from other politicians who recognize that the same issues exist, if not his ideas?
2012-05-06 04:39:35 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.


And, in the 1950's we also had Jim Crow laws and no Medicare. Are you advocating for those things as well?
2012-05-06 04:36:04 PM
1 votes:

bunner: I'll never be able to thank you for resorting to cheap shots like calling me ignorant or an idiot for liking a political candidate you do not. Its precisely the robust sort of debate methods that have made America what it is today. A failing sh*hole full of poor people barking at each others flags while the same monkeys clean out the safe


You know, it'd be so much easier for you to defend Ron Paul's ideas if you weren't up there on that cross.

Because all you've done so far is complain that we're being unfair for asking you why different with crap ideas is better.
2012-05-06 04:35:09 PM
1 votes:

mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate


I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.
2012-05-06 04:25:52 PM
1 votes:

quatchi: Ron Paul isn't any kind of libertarian, btw, he's a "state's right's" advocate who's overly cozy with racist RW elements, who wants to take away a woman's autonomy, feels uncomfortable with the Civil rights act allowing black folks to eat in public, who would perfectly happy to let the state's become inhumane authoritarian clusterfarks as long as the "right kind of people" are in charge


Also, he wants to bring back the gold standard, which would destroy the US economy, OR he wants each state to decide its own currency, which would do the same thing.

Who wants to bet that Bunner didn't know any of that?
2012-05-06 04:23:16 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Why? You've already made up your mind that he's a nincompoop and, looking at the sea of sheep twats littering the rest of the political landscape, I'm sort of fine with that


And this is why RON PAUL supporters are terrible supporters. They can't name a single idea of his that they like. They can only complain that people don't pay attention to him because he's different.

It's too bad, really.

If you knew any of his ideas, you wouldn't support him in the first place.
2012-05-06 04:18:13 PM
1 votes:

LordBollocks: dumbobruni: and how would life under another Sarkozy presidency be any different?

Sarkozy wanted to stick with the German austerity plan. Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.



no, not really.

Despite fears that he will pursue a "dangerous" economic policy featuring a return to Keynesian tax-and-spend practices, Hollande and his campaign team have told the Germans that this has been ruled out. "We can't do Keynesianism twice in 10 years," Michel Sapin, the former finance minister who wrote Hollande's economic programme, told senior German diplomats, according to a confidential note obtained by the Guardian.

Link
Heb
2012-05-06 04:14:13 PM
1 votes:

Delay: Does this mean that France will be losing their single payer health care system?


No country with a single payer health care system would willingly give it up, whether ruled by a liberal or conservative government. You'd have to be mad.
2012-05-06 04:11:14 PM
1 votes:

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: El Brujo: Unintended pun about the French. You know what I mean...talking about palin-americans.
Good on ya though for pointing that out! I must need another cup of coffee, because I'm not a French hater and don't understand why any American in their right mind would be. Totally misguided and undeserved.


Because Freedom fries.

(I can't believe that actually happened.)


That was...unbelievable. And those are our elected officials. Have you seen Idiocracy? It's in full-farking-swing and it makes me sad. That movie is prophetic.
2012-05-06 04:01:27 PM
1 votes:

MeinRS6: Is there no amount of evidence that could convince you otherwise? It's all around you


Okay. Name some of it. Seeing as how it's "all around you"

Is it the fact that Germany has a socialist healthcare system and is one of the strongest economies in the world?

Could it be the fact that the Scandinavians have some of the highest standards of living in the world?
2012-05-06 03:48:42 PM
1 votes:

jagabaya: Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.


THIS

Sarkozy is an asshole, and has all kinds of court dates and trials awaiting his corrupt ass. For some reason the French president is immune from investigations while in office. Now, I hope they hang his ass out to dry in the next few months.
2012-05-06 03:42:56 PM
1 votes:

Sabyen91: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

People with brains realize every industrial nation has a mixed economy. Socialism and capitalism don't exist in any pure form.


Capitalism does -- it was shown on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom every Sunday night.
2012-05-06 03:40:06 PM
1 votes:

Overfiend: DamnYankees: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.

You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?

/tomorrow the flight of the wealthy begins from France


1 million euros. With differences in level of living + currency rate, that's equivalent to $3M. Very few people will be impacted.
2012-05-06 03:36:07 PM
1 votes:

xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?


Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.
2012-05-06 03:34:47 PM
1 votes:

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: //americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in


He couldn't even get the GOP nomination; I'd start there with the "sheeple" histrionics.
2012-05-06 03:25:36 PM
1 votes:
Ppl stop acting like americans dont know what a socialist is or that Obama isnt. If it wasnt for the checks and balances of the US govt the US would be in a complete socialist state right now. You know if Obama could literally do whatever he wanted w/o approval of others. That being said idgaf bc now that we know the republican candidate, we are completely farked.
/not even voting
//americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in
2012-05-06 03:24:57 PM
1 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com

/Meh, they're all neoliberals anyway.
2012-05-06 03:24:37 PM
1 votes:

MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.


Wow. There is so much ignorance in that statement, I don't know where to start.

/why bother?
2012-05-06 03:23:31 PM
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

The part that seems to have you confused is that it was socialist policies that caused their problems in the first place. It's not like the austerity measures were in place for the past 30 years while debt piled up.


Yeah, right. 30 years of Reagan/Thatcher type policies were "socialist". Sure.
2012-05-06 03:23:11 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: Nah. After Rome fell, it was the wealthy landowners who set up the first fiefdoms. .


the ones who survived the invasions, waves of diseases and riots (plus harsh winters and starvation) then sure....

but our robber barons pf tpdau aren't exactly prepared to survive in that sort of world. they usually run away from their problems and hire lawyers to deal with the fallout. when the world economy implodes this time around, the lawyers and their clients are gonna have some harsh new realities to face....
2012-05-06 03:18:00 PM
1 votes:

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.


To be fair, their "socialists" tend to be technocratic graduates of elite French educational institutions.

El Brujo: I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country


Typo or awesome play on words?

I'm appropriating this for the forces of literacy.
2012-05-06 03:17:43 PM
1 votes:

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


this has been covered. do try to keep up.
2012-05-06 03:17:27 PM
1 votes:

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


France reacts to the failure of austerity measures to improve the economy by... electing a socialist.
2012-05-06 03:17:02 PM
1 votes:

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


it could have been worse. Le Pen is to the left of the Socialists on economic policies.
2012-05-06 03:16:07 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.

They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.


well...that's what the new rulers will do. the old rulers will die badly and leave their heads to rot on pikes outside the burned out shell of wall street buildings.
2012-05-06 03:13:23 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: Serious Black: No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.

yup.

except we did complete step two in the 50s and 60s, when we taxed the shiat out of everyone. and what happened? america's standard of living rose exponentially.


ill never understand why americans are so scared of taxes
no wonder their infrastructure is shiat
2012-05-06 03:12:44 PM
1 votes:

Overfiend: You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?


worked for america in the 50s and 60s.
2012-05-06 03:11:14 PM
1 votes:

Serious Black: No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.


yup.

except we did complete step two in the 50s and 60s, when we taxed the shiat out of everyone. and what happened? america's standard of living rose exponentially.
2012-05-06 03:11:13 PM
1 votes:

Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"


Divorce papers in quatre...trois...deux...
2012-05-06 03:11:12 PM
1 votes:
Does Hollande have a smokin' hot wife?
2012-05-06 03:10:25 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.


You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?

/tomorrow the flight of the wealthy begins from France
2012-05-06 03:10:07 PM
1 votes:
As much as I'm intrigued by Hollande's positioning on economic policy (hooray for somebody who actually read an econ text!), I worry about whether or not he'll be able to successfully navigate foreign policy.

Sarko's proved a master of mitigating German tendencies, and he's been a staunch pro-US ally. He's disgusting wrt French Arabs, but in the grand scheme, he's prevented the Germans from really punishing the PIIGS and he brought France back into NATO. I should only hope Hollande is as facile politically.
2012-05-06 03:09:54 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.


They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.
2012-05-06 03:09:25 PM
1 votes:

Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"


Tomorrow's headline "Bruni divorces Sarkozy, realizes he is an ugly little man with no power or influence"
2012-05-06 03:07:29 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: Snarfangel: I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.

well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed. so why not try a keynesian approach -- one that has actually worked in the past? (but if they do, let's see if they actually pay it back per the second part of the keynes model).


No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.
2012-05-06 03:05:35 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed.


It obviously failed because it wasn't conservative ENOUGH.

/standard conservative excuse for their failures
2012-05-06 03:05:21 PM
1 votes:

TravisBickle62: Still better than Hitler


I snickered.
2012-05-06 03:04:49 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?


Nuclear war by the end of 2014. You heard it here first, folks.
2012-05-06 03:04:48 PM
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

The part that seems to have you confused is that it was socialist policies that caused their problems in the first place. It's not like the austerity measures were in place for the past 30 years while debt piled up.


It doesn't help when you don't enforce your tax policies either (ie: Greece).
2012-05-06 03:04:43 PM
1 votes:

quatchi: Let them eat Eggs Benedict!

/Got nothing.

So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?


Not to mention counterproductive. Decades from now, people will look back on the austerity measures and wonder what the hell they were thinking.
2012-05-06 03:01:05 PM
1 votes:

cptjeff: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

He opposes the european austerity measures and wants to actually try and rebuild the economy before trying to pay down debts. I'm sure he has other goals, but that's what he was elected on. Sarkozy was for austerity and the German plan, Hollande was opposed.


I think he's right about premature austerity and the damage that has already done to Europe, but things like rolling back the retirement age to 60 from 62 are unsustainable in the long term if you want to be able to pay down debt between crisis rather than ending up like Greece where all counter-cyclical capability is gone.
2012-05-06 03:00:17 PM
1 votes:
Means nothing until the results of the parliamentary elections are in come June 17th.
2012-05-06 02:57:32 PM
1 votes:
Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.
2012-05-06 02:57:29 PM
1 votes:
How the far-right was the real winner in French elections.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but... I'll miss Carla Bruni.
2012-05-06 02:57:13 PM
1 votes:

Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?


Makes for good soccer games though.
2012-05-06 02:55:50 PM
1 votes:

smooshie: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party could enter parliament for the first time if the exit poll prediction of it winning 6.5 -7.5% of the vote comes to fruition.

wat.


We never learned from the 1930's did we?
2012-05-06 02:54:44 PM
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"
2012-05-06 02:53:45 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

Doe this even matter? No offense to the Greeks, but it seems like their fate is sort of out of their control.


No, they've dug too deep. They're pretty much only delaying the inevitable at this point.
2012-05-06 02:51:47 PM
1 votes:
Still better than Hitler
2012-05-06 02:48:03 PM
1 votes:

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


My understanding is that Marine Le Pen gave the finger to Sarkozy and said she would cast a blank ballot.
2012-05-06 02:47:38 PM
1 votes:
2012-05-06 02:47:07 PM
1 votes:

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


came here to say this.
2012-05-06 02:47:01 PM
1 votes:
thecargoculte.com

/?
2012-05-06 02:46:28 PM
1 votes:
You mean that N'z in Paris ad worked??!
2012-05-06 02:46:12 PM
1 votes:
Well, the euro is farked.
2012-05-06 02:46:05 PM
1 votes:
Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.
2012-05-06 02:45:47 PM
1 votes:
I'll always remember Sarkozy for giving us this moment, which led to one of my best headlines:

3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-05-06 02:45:39 PM
1 votes:
a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com
2012-05-06 02:44:45 PM
1 votes:

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


From the NY Times:

"Analysts have said Mr. Sarkozy will need the votes of an overwhelming majority of Ms. Le Pen's supporters to win. But the latest surveys show the president getting little more than 50 percent of the National Front vote."
2012-05-06 02:44:40 PM
1 votes:
Let them eat Eggs Benedict!

/Got nothing.

So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?
2012-05-06 02:44:38 PM
1 votes:
submitter sounds insecure about his own country.
2012-05-06 02:43:46 PM
1 votes:

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


its really very simple - if you aren't a pro-Jesus republican then you are a dirty atheist socialist. that's the Republican way! which is like the chicago way, only with more tax breaks and less murder.

as for the article...if France elects a socialist does that mean we have to invade them?
2012-05-06 02:43:29 PM
1 votes:
Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.
2012-05-06 02:42:00 PM
1 votes:
Oh, this thread is gonna be good...

*Grabs popcorn*
2012-05-06 02:40:11 PM
1 votes:
Elect a Socialist. Sounds like France has been hitting...

www.entertainingrecipes.org

The sauce.
2012-05-06 02:39:03 PM
1 votes:
But I am le tired
2012-05-06 02:38:50 PM
1 votes:
Mon dieu.
 
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