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(France 24)   Socialist François Hollande elected French president with 51.9% of the vote. Commence with the surrender jokes   (france24.com) divider line 559
    More: News, French Presidents, socialists  
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6504 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 May 2012 at 2:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-06 02:38:50 PM
Mon dieu.
 
2012-05-06 02:38:55 PM
YAY SOSHALISM!
 
2012-05-06 02:39:03 PM
But I am le tired
 
2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still less Socialist than Obama, because Obama keeps it a secret.
 
2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still better than Obama.
 
2012-05-06 02:39:27 PM
Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.
 
2012-05-06 02:39:48 PM

tarheel07: But I am le tired


then take a nap..
Bush: "FIRE ZE MISSILES!!!!"
 
2012-05-06 02:39:58 PM

tarheel07: But I am le tired


well, take a nap, then FIRE ZE MISSILES
 
2012-05-06 02:40:05 PM
The correct headline is "Hollande Conquers France" I just can't find any news sites smart enough to know this though.
 
2012-05-06 02:40:10 PM
Out of all people they had, they elected a farking Norman? WTF is wrong with you people?
 
2012-05-06 02:40:11 PM
Elect a Socialist. Sounds like France has been hitting...

www.entertainingrecipes.org

The sauce.
 
2012-05-06 02:40:16 PM

tarheel07: But I am le tired


Well, have a nap
 
2012-05-06 02:40:51 PM
Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.
 
2012-05-06 02:41:08 PM
Sacre bleu! C'est tragique!
 
2012-05-06 02:41:38 PM
Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.
 
2012-05-06 02:41:42 PM
When do they surrender to Spain?
 
2012-05-06 02:41:48 PM

Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.


Did they ever stop?

I think a lot of electoral chaos will be sweeping across Europe. Asia will stay on its various courses at least until economic collapse hits China, and naturally nothing ever improves in the USA.

♫ What a wonderful world ♫
 
2012-05-06 02:42:00 PM
Oh, this thread is gonna be good...

*Grabs popcorn*
 
2012-05-06 02:42:01 PM

Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.


They hated France when Chirac was in charge and he was in the same party as Sarkozy. Fox hates France no matter what they do.

Headline flashing on BBC News:

"Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"

Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.
 
2012-05-06 02:42:06 PM
Dammit. OK. Here's mine

France surrenders to the March of History

Why that was not trollish enough for a green, I do not know
 
2012-05-06 02:42:19 PM
Gotta say this should be fun to watch.
 
2012-05-06 02:42:24 PM
Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.
 
2012-05-06 02:42:50 PM
So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?
 
2012-05-06 02:42:54 PM
This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.
 
2012-05-06 02:43:18 PM

cman: Out of all people they had, they elected a farking Norman? WTF is wrong with you people?


Maybe France were fans of Greg
 
2012-05-06 02:43:29 PM
Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.
 
2012-05-06 02:43:46 PM

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


its really very simple - if you aren't a pro-Jesus republican then you are a dirty atheist socialist. that's the Republican way! which is like the chicago way, only with more tax breaks and less murder.

as for the article...if France elects a socialist does that mean we have to invade them?
 
2012-05-06 02:43:47 PM
I think anyone who thinks the France/surrenders hurr durr joke is funny surrendered their sense of humor long ago.
 
2012-05-06 02:44:15 PM
I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.
 
2012-05-06 02:44:31 PM

jagabaya: Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.


I did respect the man's taste when it came to women's posteriors.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-06 02:44:37 PM
It's back to freedom fries for this here red-blooded American.
 
2012-05-06 02:44:38 PM
submitter sounds insecure about his own country.
 
2012-05-06 02:44:40 PM
Let them eat Eggs Benedict!

/Got nothing.

So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?
 
2012-05-06 02:44:45 PM

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


From the NY Times:

"Analysts have said Mr. Sarkozy will need the votes of an overwhelming majority of Ms. Le Pen's supporters to win. But the latest surveys show the president getting little more than 50 percent of the National Front vote."
 
2012-05-06 02:44:48 PM
Well so much for the EU the way Germany wants it.
 
2012-05-06 02:45:22 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.
 
2012-05-06 02:45:31 PM
France was Socialist before. But now it's Double Socialist.
 
2012-05-06 02:45:39 PM
a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com
 
2012-05-06 02:45:47 PM
I'll always remember Sarkozy for giving us this moment, which led to one of my best headlines:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-06 02:45:59 PM

quatchi: So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?


austerity programs usually translate as 'f*ck the poor/protect the rich'. i'm sure that sort of plan is wildly popular with around 1% of the population.
 
2012-05-06 02:46:00 PM

leevis: I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.


I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe. The only reason they're in trouble is that they own a good bit of the debt in the countries that are actually sucking right now (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.)

Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
2012-05-06 02:46:05 PM
Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.
 
2012-05-06 02:46:09 PM

cman: Out of all people they had, they elected a farking Norman? WTF is wrong with you people?


Hey at least this time they didn't just burn the city and announce their over-lordship. The really important question here is whether the new guy's wife is hot.

/I'm betting that's a big no
 
2012-05-06 02:46:12 PM
Well, the euro is farked.
 
2012-05-06 02:46:28 PM
You mean that N'z in Paris ad worked??!
 
2012-05-06 02:47:01 PM
thecargoculte.com

/?
 
2012-05-06 02:47:05 PM

Mrtraveler01: I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe.


Depends on the metric. I mean, they are a large country so they have a lot of stuff, but they do have very high unemployment and they have serious social problems.
 
2012-05-06 02:47:07 PM

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


came here to say this.
 
2012-05-06 02:47:13 PM

Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.


if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.
 
2012-05-06 02:47:25 PM
Hollande makes Obama look like a hardcore Tea Partier, but Fox will still treat them exactly the same.
 
2012-05-06 02:47:29 PM
What Wall St Firm did he work for?
 
2012-05-06 02:47:38 PM
 
2012-05-06 02:48:00 PM

Weaver95: as for the article...if France elects a socialist does that mean we have to invade them?


We've certainly established a precedent that we believe it is our right to do so. And the rest of the world didn't really do much to stop us other than some grumbling here and there. So I really don't see why we shouldn't. You know, for national security.
 
2012-05-06 02:48:03 PM

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


My understanding is that Marine Le Pen gave the finger to Sarkozy and said she would cast a blank ballot.
 
2012-05-06 02:48:05 PM
So has he been promising change and going to give billions of dollars in stimulus funds and not have it do anything?
 
2012-05-06 02:48:06 PM

quickdraw: Well so much for the EU the way Germany wants it.


Apparently there isn't enough excitement in the EU.

This will fix that nicely.
 
2012-05-06 02:48:56 PM

Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:


Doe this even matter? No offense to the Greeks, but it seems like their fate is sort of out of their control.
 
2012-05-06 02:49:27 PM
I hope Hollande not only ends up saving France, but that his policies will become an inspiration/blueprint to the rest of the EU (and dare I say, the US as well)? It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

It would drive the right wing so WHARRGARBL-y to find out that hey, socialism is better than "trickle down" economics after all.
 
2012-05-06 02:50:08 PM
Monseiur Hollande already has a plan. In order to feed the proletariat, he is going to reduce the size of France's standing army. He should get a good return on that program though.


de-motivational-posters.com
 
2012-05-06 02:50:20 PM

Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.


Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.
 
2012-05-06 02:50:58 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


He opposes the european austerity measures and wants to actually try and rebuild the economy before trying to pay down debts. I'm sure he has other goals, but that's what he was elected on. Sarkozy was for austerity and the German plan, Hollande was opposed.
 
2012-05-06 02:51:01 PM
According to some articles, it appears the French 'wealthy' are eyeing a surrender across the channel...

...just like Alec Baldwin fled when GWB was elected...
 
2012-05-06 02:51:47 PM
Still better than Hitler
 
2012-05-06 02:53:03 PM

Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.


If the system collapse in Europe it will DEFINITELY impact us here because we do a lot of trading with them. They're a part of the reason our recovery has been so damn slow. Same goes with China which seems to be denying itself that they're on a bubble.
 
2012-05-06 02:53:09 PM

Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.


when countries go broke all sudden like, they tend to get stabby. then then start invading other countries and stealing their stuff.

I'd really like to avoid another world war. can't we all just agree that this whole thing is the fault of goldman-sachs and put those greedy f*ckers on trial?
 
2012-05-06 02:53:44 PM

quickdraw: Well so much for the EU the way Germany wants it.


It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
 
2012-05-06 02:53:45 PM

DamnYankees: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

Doe this even matter? No offense to the Greeks, but it seems like their fate is sort of out of their control.


No, they've dug too deep. They're pretty much only delaying the inevitable at this point.
 
2012-05-06 02:53:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party could enter parliament for the first time if the exit poll prediction of it winning 6.5 -7.5% of the vote comes to fruition.


wat.
 
2012-05-06 02:54:44 PM
i.dailymail.co.uk

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"
 
2012-05-06 02:55:34 PM
and the French are still not going to win L' Tour d' France!
 
2012-05-06 02:55:50 PM

smooshie: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party could enter parliament for the first time if the exit poll prediction of it winning 6.5 -7.5% of the vote comes to fruition.

wat.


We never learned from the 1930's did we?
 
2012-05-06 02:56:13 PM
So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?
 
2012-05-06 02:57:11 PM

Mrtraveler01: Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.

If the system collapse in Europe it will DEFINITELY impact us here because we do a lot of trading with them. They're a part of the reason our recovery has been so damn slow. Same goes with China which seems to be denying itself that they're on a bubble.


yeah...now all we need is for the chinese bubble to pop and that's it - Great Depression 2.0 and we'll be knee deep in dominionist theocrats and evangelicals.
 
2012-05-06 02:57:13 PM

Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?


Makes for good soccer games though.
 
2012-05-06 02:57:29 PM
How the far-right was the real winner in French elections.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but... I'll miss Carla Bruni.
 
2012-05-06 02:57:32 PM
Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.
 
2012-05-06 02:57:56 PM
img689.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-06 02:59:01 PM

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


Scandanavia is doing pretty well and they use left-wing ideas.

But you're nothing more than a binary thinking troll so why should I bother?
 
2012-05-06 02:59:04 PM
"But, but.. .SOSHLIZMS!" If you can install a government whose actual mission is to support the society it portends to serve while maintaining a robust but regulated capitalist engine and not steal or get fat with pelf on the public's dime, you will have done what every other leader in history said they wanted to do, and would do, but didn't. I don't care if you call it the burnt waffle and cheese sandwich party. "You can call the band 'sh*t' if the record sells" - Craig Balzer.
 
2012-05-06 02:59:38 PM
I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.
 
2012-05-06 02:59:50 PM

Mrtraveler01: randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.

Scandanavia is doing pretty well and they use left-wing ideas.

But you're nothing more than a binary thinking troll so why should I bother?


No no that doesn't count whenever it works.
 
2012-05-06 03:00:17 PM
Means nothing until the results of the parliamentary elections are in come June 17th.
 
2012-05-06 03:00:41 PM

WizardofToast: smooshie: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party could enter parliament for the first time if the exit poll prediction of it winning 6.5 -7.5% of the vote comes to fruition.

wat.

We never learned from the 1930's did we?


we DID learn a number of lessons form the 30's. what we DIDN'T do is remember those lessons. And you can't even blame one particular party or age group for this mess. a whole lot of people over a couple of decades all got together and denied reality, then stripped out all the common sense restrictions that got put into place to prevent another Great Depression from happening.
 
2012-05-06 03:00:57 PM

TV's Vinnie: I hope Hollande not only ends up saving France, but that his policies will become an inspiration/blueprint to the rest of the EU (and dare I say, the US as well)? It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

It would drive the right wing so WHARRGARBL-y to find out that hey, socialism is better than "trickle down" economics after all.


shiat, actually doing nothing is probably better for the economy than "trickle down" economics.
 
2012-05-06 03:01:05 PM

cptjeff: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

He opposes the european austerity measures and wants to actually try and rebuild the economy before trying to pay down debts. I'm sure he has other goals, but that's what he was elected on. Sarkozy was for austerity and the German plan, Hollande was opposed.


I think he's right about premature austerity and the damage that has already done to Europe, but things like rolling back the retirement age to 60 from 62 are unsustainable in the long term if you want to be able to pay down debt between crisis rather than ending up like Greece where all counter-cyclical capability is gone.
 
2012-05-06 03:02:15 PM

T-Servo: How the far-right was the real winner in French elections.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but... I'll miss Carla Bruni.


So the far right was able to pull the losers farther right. Yep, big winners there, manipulating the people who end up with no power. I predict similar "big wins" by the Tea party this fall here in the US.
 
2012-05-06 03:02:17 PM

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


Goldman-Sachs are left wing liberals...?

this collapse has nothing to do with socialism. its the fault of banks and investors running around without controls or even common sense.
 
2012-05-06 03:02:29 PM
The whole world economy needs to crash so we can start over
 
2012-05-06 03:03:22 PM
Surrender? If I remember right the true socialists from WW2 did pretty well for themselves and surrender was never really an option.
 
2012-05-06 03:03:47 PM

TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.


The part that seems to have you confused is that it was socialist policies that caused their problems in the first place. It's not like the austerity measures were in place for the past 30 years while debt piled up.
 
2012-05-06 03:03:49 PM

Snarfangel: I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.


well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed. so why not try a keynesian approach -- one that has actually worked in the past? (but if they do, let's see if they actually pay it back per the second part of the keynes model).
 
2012-05-06 03:04:22 PM
if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.
 
2012-05-06 03:04:29 PM
Commie French, Nazi Greeks and Marxist Americans. Well played Mayans.
 
2012-05-06 03:04:43 PM

quatchi: Let them eat Eggs Benedict!

/Got nothing.

So... austerity programs not particularly popular.

Heh, who'da thunk?


Not to mention counterproductive. Decades from now, people will look back on the austerity measures and wonder what the hell they were thinking.
 
2012-05-06 03:04:46 PM
Hollande was endorsed by the

flynn80: What Wall St Firm did he work for?


he didn't, but he was endorsed by the CEO of Lazard.
 
2012-05-06 03:04:48 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

The part that seems to have you confused is that it was socialist policies that caused their problems in the first place. It's not like the austerity measures were in place for the past 30 years while debt piled up.


It doesn't help when you don't enforce your tax policies either (ie: Greece).
 
2012-05-06 03:04:49 PM

Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?


Nuclear war by the end of 2014. You heard it here first, folks.
 
2012-05-06 03:05:21 PM

TravisBickle62: Still better than Hitler


I snickered.
 
2012-05-06 03:05:35 PM

FlashHarry: well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed.


It obviously failed because it wasn't conservative ENOUGH.

/standard conservative excuse for their failures
 
2012-05-06 03:06:16 PM

Mrtraveler01: Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.

They hated France when Chirac was in charge and he was in the same party as Sarkozy. Fox hates France no matter what they do.

Headline flashing on BBC News:

"Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"

Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.


I'm pretty sure you hear every American politician say that. Before and after which they tell their audience that half of the country wants to destroy everything that America stands for.
 
2012-05-06 03:06:42 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Marxist Americans


i wonder how many actual "marxist" americans there are in 2012. i'm guessing somewhere around 20 or so.
 
2012-05-06 03:06:50 PM

Hagbardr: Decades from now, people will look back on the austerity measures and wonder what the hell they were thinking.


And five years after, everyone will have forgotten and try it again.
 
2012-05-06 03:07:15 PM

Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.


The global economy is now an etch a sketch with no silver on the screen. Time to shake it and start over. We need to stop blowing bubbles and the people who crate them.
 
2012-05-06 03:07:21 PM

dehehn: Mrtraveler01: Free Radical: Finally, FOX can go back to hating the French again.

They hated France when Chirac was in charge and he was in the same party as Sarkozy. Fox hates France no matter what they do.

Headline flashing on BBC News:

"Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"

Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.

I'm pretty sure you hear every American politician say that. Before and after which they tell their audience that half of the country wants to destroy everything that America stands for.


Good point.
 
2012-05-06 03:07:29 PM

FlashHarry: Snarfangel: I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.

well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed. so why not try a keynesian approach -- one that has actually worked in the past? (but if they do, let's see if they actually pay it back per the second part of the keynes model).


No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.
 
2012-05-06 03:08:01 PM

Serious Black: Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?

Nuclear war by the end of 2014. You heard it here first, folks.


only in your dreams
 
2012-05-06 03:08:06 PM

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


You mean left wing ideas like the free market paradises of Ireland and Iceland collapsing? Or the left wing Goldman Sachs who helped Greece hide their debt to get around EU deficit restrictions? Or the left wing housing bubble that's bringing down Spain and Portugal? Or the left wing British banks that are still loaded with toxic assets which are driving the UK back into a recession? Or what about the left wing "Tiger of Eastern Europe" Romania, which was the fastest growing European economy until the global economic contraction took down their government? Exactly which left wing ideas are causing this massive continent-wide failure?
 
2012-05-06 03:08:35 PM
On 26 January he outlined a full list of policies in a manifesto containing 60 propositions, including the separation of retail activities from riskier investment-banking businesses, raising taxes for big corporations, banks and the wealthy, creating 60,000 teaching jobs, bringing the official retirement age back down to 60 from 62, creating subsidised jobs in areas of high unemployment for the young, promoting more industry in France by creating a public investment bank, granting marriage and adoption rights to same-sex couples, and pulling French troops out of Afghanistan in 2012.

Wouldn't it be nice...
 
2012-05-06 03:09:25 PM

Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"


Tomorrow's headline "Bruni divorces Sarkozy, realizes he is an ugly little man with no power or influence"
 
2012-05-06 03:09:37 PM

Serious Black: FlashHarry: Snarfangel: I look forward to seeing another French experiment in socialism. No matter how it turns out, it will be a good lesson for the rest of the world.

/unless Hollande wimps out and runs to the center.

well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed. so why not try a keynesian approach -- one that has actually worked in the past? (but if they do, let's see if they actually pay it back per the second part of the keynes model).

No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.

...you mean step two isn't decry Keynesianism as a failure, then proceed to cut taxes for the rich and increase spending?
 
2012-05-06 03:09:45 PM

Mrtraveler01: Fox hates France no matter what they do.


not quite. they're so dumb that they actually "liked" france when sarkozy won - for one reason only: because he's a self-proclaimed "conservative."

the fact that he's to the left of obama on just about everything means nothing to them. it's the same reason they think nazis were left-wing - because they have the word "socialist" in their name. (no word on how they feel about the DPRK)
 
2012-05-06 03:09:54 PM

Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.


They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.
 
2012-05-06 03:10:00 PM

TravisBickle62: Still better than Hitler


You mean Le Pen?
 
2012-05-06 03:10:07 PM
As much as I'm intrigued by Hollande's positioning on economic policy (hooray for somebody who actually read an econ text!), I worry about whether or not he'll be able to successfully navigate foreign policy.

Sarko's proved a master of mitigating German tendencies, and he's been a staunch pro-US ally. He's disgusting wrt French Arabs, but in the grand scheme, he's prevented the Germans from really punishing the PIIGS and he brought France back into NATO. I should only hope Hollande is as facile politically.
 
2012-05-06 03:10:24 PM
This just in, "hooray for me, f*ck you, GIMMIE" has turned out to be a failed economic model.
 
2012-05-06 03:10:25 PM

DamnYankees: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.


You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?

/tomorrow the flight of the wealthy begins from France
 
2012-05-06 03:10:34 PM

Martonio: Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"

Tomorrow's headline "Bruni divorces Sarkozy, realizes he is an ugly little man with no power or influence"


Unless he's packin'.

/If you know what I mean...
 
2012-05-06 03:11:12 PM
Does Hollande have a smokin' hot wife?
 
2012-05-06 03:11:13 PM

Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"


Divorce papers in quatre...trois...deux...
 
2012-05-06 03:11:14 PM

Serious Black: No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.


yup.

except we did complete step two in the 50s and 60s, when we taxed the shiat out of everyone. and what happened? america's standard of living rose exponentially.
 
2012-05-06 03:11:15 PM
From the BBC's article:

"The socialist candidate has promised to raise taxes on big corporations and people earning more than 1m euros a year."

OMG! the SOSHALUSM!!

wont someone please think of the poor millionaires and the multinationals?

clearly the bolsheviks have taken power in france, and we'll have Red Terror and Death Panels in hours.
 
2012-05-06 03:11:39 PM

NaziKamikaze: I think anyone who thinks the France/surrenders hurr durr joke is funny surrendered their sense of humor long ago.


My sense of humor is perfectly functional.

Of course, I also think Jerry Lewis is hilarious.
 
2012-05-06 03:12:42 PM

Robo Beat: Means nothing until the results of the parliamentary elections are in come June 17th.


Actually, the President of France is pretty damn powerful relative to the parliament. The parliament was more powerful in the third (and fourth, which was pretty much the same as the third) republic, but on more than one occasion they couldn't stop squabbling long enough to actually defend the country. When they were begging De Gaulle to come back to lead the nation through the algiers crisis, he insisted on being allowed to implement a few constitutional reforms as a condition to taking it. Which is why the fifth republic has a ridiculously strong presidency.

And that said, I don't think there's much reason to expect something other than a socialist plurality given how this election turned out.
 
2012-05-06 03:12:44 PM

Overfiend: You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?


worked for america in the 50s and 60s.
 
2012-05-06 03:13:12 PM

LordOfThePings: TravisBickle62: Still better than Hitler

You mean Le Pen?


potato, pomme de terre, tomato, tomate...
 
2012-05-06 03:13:23 PM

FlashHarry: Serious Black: No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.

yup.

except we did complete step two in the 50s and 60s, when we taxed the shiat out of everyone. and what happened? america's standard of living rose exponentially.


ill never understand why americans are so scared of taxes
no wonder their infrastructure is shiat
 
2012-05-06 03:13:27 PM

Father_Jack: From the BBC's article:

"The socialist candidate has promised to raise taxes on big corporations and people earning more than 1m euros a year."

OMG! the SOSHALUSM!!

wont someone please think of the poor millionaires and the multinationals?

clearly the bolsheviks have taken power in france, and we'll have Red Terror and Death Panels in hours.


I've though long and hard about the poor millionaires and multinationals. So far, none of it can be printed here.
 
2012-05-06 03:13:53 PM
Hollande will have to face reality just like Sarkozy did. And embrace the loving hug of Mother Merkel.
 
2012-05-06 03:13:55 PM

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


Any American who believes we now have a socialist nation is not someone who should even be given the time of day. These are the same kinds of people who say we have a neegra muslin' for president who wants to take your gun away, and on the opposite side, people who believe jet trails in the sky are means to spy on us.

I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country. Unfortunately, misinformation (24 hour "news" entertainment) has deeply corrupted our collective intelligence. It's farking sad.

I'll believe we are socialist once I stop seeing hundreds of our citizens dying in doorways, on park benches, and in city parks year after year. And when I don't have to not go to my doctor when layoffs happen and I can't afford COBRA.
 
2012-05-06 03:15:17 PM
So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.
 
2012-05-06 03:15:56 PM
Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.
 
2012-05-06 03:16:07 PM

Mentat: Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.

They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.


well...that's what the new rulers will do. the old rulers will die badly and leave their heads to rot on pikes outside the burned out shell of wall street buildings.
 
2012-05-06 03:16:37 PM

randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.


Mange merde un morte.
 
2012-05-06 03:16:41 PM

ontariolightning: ill never understand why americans are so scared of taxes
no wonder their infrastructure is shiat


a major part of the problem is we don't see any of the benefits of taxes (or very few, anyway). i've lived in sweden, finland, france and switzerland. there, you see great roads, nice schools, cheap education, free healthcare, etc. etc. so, yes, you pay high taxes, but you get something for it.

here we see elective wars and bridges to nowhere.

it's been 80 years since the new deal and 60 since eisenhower built the interstates. people have forgotten that government can do good.
 
2012-05-06 03:16:51 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


Yeah, but New FeudalismTM has been working just awesome for this nation, right?
 
2012-05-06 03:17:02 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


it could have been worse. Le Pen is to the left of the Socialists on economic policies.
 
2012-05-06 03:17:27 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


France reacts to the failure of austerity measures to improve the economy by... electing a socialist.
 
2012-05-06 03:17:43 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


this has been covered. do try to keep up.
 
2012-05-06 03:17:44 PM

Hollie Maea: dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?

My understanding is that Marine Le Pen gave the finger to Sarkozy and said she would cast a blank ballot.


My opinion of Sarkozy just jumped.
 
2012-05-06 03:18:00 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.


To be fair, their "socialists" tend to be technocratic graduates of elite French educational institutions.

El Brujo: I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country


Typo or awesome play on words?

I'm appropriating this for the forces of literacy.
 
2012-05-06 03:19:39 PM

kevinatilusa: Hollie Maea: dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?

My understanding is that Marine Le Pen gave the finger to Sarkozy and said she would cast a blank ballot.

My opinion of Sarkozy just jumped.


I've long had a soft spot for the guy. Granted, mine was more for him being one of the most powerful people in the world, married to a supermodel, and still being incredibly self conscious of his height, which I got a laugh at, but still.
 
2012-05-06 03:20:21 PM

Weaver95: Mentat: Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.

They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.

well...that's what the new rulers will do. the old rulers will die badly and leave their heads to rot on pikes outside the burned out shell of wall street buildings.


Nah. After Rome fell, it was the wealthy landowners who set up the first fiefdoms. I guess I'll have to choose between the Holy Republic of Kochistan or the Boone Pickens Memorial Autocracy.
 
2012-05-06 03:20:33 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


well...the right wing bankers DID cause the problem in the first place. might as well try something else, right?

or did you seriously mean to suggest that the world needs to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, while hoping that THIS time things will be different?
 
2012-05-06 03:22:17 PM

fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.


It's all debt. Money, property, federal budgets, revenues, the ground you're standing on. Somebody owns it and has whored it out to a bank and the bank turned it into a lot of gymnastic stock issues and billed you for it. It's. All. Debt.

The about to be shaken etch a sketch, let me show it to yas.

We're all sitting on our asses fighting over which outstanding failed, brief glitch in how money and governance works will obviously prevail, when it's as plain as the balls on a tall dog that pretty much every socioeconomic ideology in use for the last 3000 years manged to crawl up it's own ass before copping a major lean and sinking into the swamp.

Don't worry, we never learn from this, so we're completely immune.
 
2012-05-06 03:22:27 PM
A monument of some damn French woman surrendering. Fark them those socialist basturds.


mw2.google.com
 
2012-05-06 03:22:34 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

To be fair, their "socialists" tend to be technocratic graduates of elite French educational institutions.



such as my school. :)
 
2012-05-06 03:22:46 PM

Weaver95: or did you seriously mean to suggest that the world needs to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, while hoping that THIS time things will be different?


i believe this is the entire republican platform in a nutshell.
 
2012-05-06 03:23:11 PM

Mentat: Nah. After Rome fell, it was the wealthy landowners who set up the first fiefdoms. .


the ones who survived the invasions, waves of diseases and riots (plus harsh winters and starvation) then sure....

but our robber barons pf tpdau aren't exactly prepared to survive in that sort of world. they usually run away from their problems and hire lawyers to deal with the fallout. when the world economy implodes this time around, the lawyers and their clients are gonna have some harsh new realities to face....
 
2012-05-06 03:23:31 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed where these retarded "austerity" measured have failed.

The part that seems to have you confused is that it was socialist policies that caused their problems in the first place. It's not like the austerity measures were in place for the past 30 years while debt piled up.


Yeah, right. 30 years of Reagan/Thatcher type policies were "socialist". Sure.
 
2012-05-06 03:24:08 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

To be fair, their "socialists" tend to be technocratic graduates of elite French educational institutions.

El Brujo: I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country

Typo or awesome play on words?

I'm appropriating this for the forces of literacy.


Unintended pun about the French. You know what I mean...talking about palin-americans.
Good on ya though for pointing that out! I must need another cup of coffee, because I'm not a French hater and don't understand why any American in their right mind would be. Totally misguided and undeserved.
 
2012-05-06 03:24:37 PM

MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.


Wow. There is so much ignorance in that statement, I don't know where to start.

/why bother?
 
2012-05-06 03:24:43 PM

Weaver95: Mentat: Nah. After Rome fell, it was the wealthy landowners who set up the first fiefdoms. .

the ones who survived the invasions, waves of diseases and riots (plus harsh winters and starvation) then sure....

but our robber barons pf tpdau of today aren't exactly prepared to survive in that sort of world. they usually run away from their problems and hire lawyers to deal with the fallout. when the world economy implodes this time around, the lawyers and their clients are gonna have some harsh new realities to face....


seriously. WTF was that!? i'm either too sober or too drunk.
 
2012-05-06 03:24:57 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

/Meh, they're all neoliberals anyway.
 
2012-05-06 03:25:09 PM

Weaver95: Mentat: Weaver95: if the euro zone goes boom, it'll take the US economy with it. China's bubble might very well burst and then we all fall down together.

what then? the rich folks won't have anywhere to run to anymore...and they'll be surrounded by a bunch of very pissed off people looking for scapegoats to hang on the fenceposts outside those gated communities.

They'll do exactly like they did after the fall of Rome. Neo-feudalism.

well...that's what the new rulers will do. the old rulers will die badly and leave their heads to rot on pikes outside the burned out shell of wall street buildings.


Salut, mes amis!

bastille-day.com

Ce qui se passe?
 
2012-05-06 03:25:36 PM
Ppl stop acting like americans dont know what a socialist is or that Obama isnt. If it wasnt for the checks and balances of the US govt the US would be in a complete socialist state right now. You know if Obama could literally do whatever he wanted w/o approval of others. That being said idgaf bc now that we know the republican candidate, we are completely farked.
/not even voting
//americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in
 
2012-05-06 03:25:59 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com

Bon. Bon.
 
2012-05-06 03:26:15 PM

Weaver95: fickle floridian: So France reacts to the European Debt Crisis by... electing a socialist.

That's some good political work there, Louis.

well...the right wing bankers DID cause the problem in the first place. might as well try something else, right?

or did you seriously mean to suggest that the world needs to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, while hoping that THIS time things will be different?


Of course things will be different! We just weren't sufficiently on board with the corporate socialism. Going whole-hog will fix everything.
 
2012-05-06 03:26:47 PM

montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.


the weird thing is, if you take out the moronic sarcasm, he's right.
 
2012-05-06 03:28:41 PM

ontariolightning: Serious Black: Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?

Nuclear war by the end of 2014. You heard it here first, folks.

only in your dreams


Idk as we learned yesterday, Iran's missles are being controlled by jar jar binks and the dark side, as clearly shown in their picture
 
2012-05-06 03:28:51 PM

El Brujo: Unintended pun about the French. You know what I mean...talking about palin-americans.
Good on ya though for pointing that out! I must need another cup of coffee, because I'm not a French hater and don't understand why any American in their right mind would be. Totally misguided and undeserved.



Because Freedom fries.

(I can't believe that actually happened.)
 
2012-05-06 03:29:09 PM
Call me when the western world pulls it's head out of it's ass, waves it's arms, and shouts "DO OVER!". Until then the dog and pony show is just trying to convince people that we're supposed to be in this hand basket.
 
2012-05-06 03:31:56 PM
Here's a question. Why would electing a socialist be a bad thing? I'm not for the idea or against it, simply because the knowledge that I have of the current state of France is borderline ignorant. Sure they're pretty much #2 in the Euro Zone and have a lot of say with the power of the purse, but my knowledge of the situation is equal to that of knowing how to do chemistry (knowing more than some, but not enough to grasp it and make it easy).

This may be what Europe needs or not need.

Why yes, I am in America. That is beside the point if you think you are going to come up with some witty remark about how Americans are ignorant, you can stop. Enlighten me on the situation rather than make a mockery of what I don't know, simply because I'm asking a simple question.
 
2012-05-06 03:32:09 PM
So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?
 
2012-05-06 03:32:51 PM
Maybe the French voters were tired of paying for Carla Bruni's terrible plastic surgery and Botox.

I mean really. How does this:
imstars.aufeminin.com

Turn into this:
static.blogo.it
 
2012-05-06 03:34:12 PM
Urinal Cake Mix: Turn into this:

Dear Women,

No.
 
2012-05-06 03:34:47 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: //americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in


He couldn't even get the GOP nomination; I'd start there with the "sheeple" histrionics.
 
2012-05-06 03:34:54 PM

FlashHarry: montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

the weird thing is, if you take out the moronic sarcasm, he's right.


Is there no amount of evidence that could convince you otherwise? It's all around you.

You are just "Socialism - Full speed ahead!" no matter what, right?
 
2012-05-06 03:36:07 PM

xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?


Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.
 
2012-05-06 03:36:17 PM

ultraholland: Urinal Cake Mix: Turn into this:

Dear Women,

No. Take the ride, get off when it stops. Dignity is a lot more beautiful than silicone.


FIFM
 
2012-05-06 03:37:32 PM

Weaver95: quatchi: So... austerity programs not particularly popular?

Heh, who'da thunk?

austerity programs usually translate as 'f*ck the poor/protect the rich'. i'm sure that sort of plan is wildly popular with around 1% of the population.


It's funny how the GOP are basically preaching austerity but the A word has never been attached to their rhetoric.

Actually it only seems that way until you consider the corporate nature of America's highly concentrated media.

Mrtraveler01: quatchi: So... austerity programs not particularly popular?

Heh, who'da thunk?

If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

Early results in Greece's parliamentary election suggest the two main parties have suffered dramatic losses.

With 11% of the vote counted, centre-right New Democracy is in the lead with 22%, down from 33.5% in 2009.

Centre-left Pasok is in second place with 16%, down from 43.9% in the last elections. Syriza, a left-wing coalition, is in third place with 15%.

Pasok and New Democracy, in coalition since last November, were expected to lose support to anti-austerity parties


Greece is totally farkied but it's only 3% of the Eurozone.

A lot of people are predicting Greece being ousted.

While Greece's economy is definitely in need of some radical reform the measures instituted by the IMF and the rest of the Eurozone are more than a little bit onerous and draconian.

Francois Hollande has considerably more leverage, more options and more time to act before facing an inevitable backlash when anti-austerity sentiment meets post campaign reality.

Interesting times.
 
2012-05-06 03:38:03 PM

enforcerpsu: When do they surrender to Spain?


So that's why they waited until after 2 May.
 
2012-05-06 03:38:04 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Ppl stop acting like americans dont know what a socialist is or that Obama isnt. If it wasnt for the checks and balances of the US govt the US would be in a complete socialist state right now. You know if Obama could literally do whatever he wanted w/o approval of others. That being said idgaf bc now that we know the republican candidate, we are completely farked.
/not even voting
//americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in


Account created: 2012-01-14 20:37:18
 
2012-05-06 03:38:57 PM

xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?


People with brains realize every industrial nation has a mixed economy. Socialism and capitalism don't exist in any pure form.
 
2012-05-06 03:39:15 PM
Allons-y!
 
2012-05-06 03:39:16 PM

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.


He already mentioned the military.
 
2012-05-06 03:39:27 PM

MeinRS6: FlashHarry: montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

the weird thing is, if you take out the moronic sarcasm, he's right.

Is there no amount of evidence that could convince you otherwise? It's all around you.

You are just "Socialism - Full speed ahead!" no matter what, right?


Money tends to create more money when it's transacted. That's the point - someone's gaining. Right now, huge amounts of money are tied up with very few people/entities/processes. If an amount of that were freed up and allowed to be transacted broadly across the economy, much more gain would be gotten from it.

That's the idea. It's not moving under the current status quo. That could be corrected.

(I know, I know, free market, not socialism, gobbeldygook)
 
2012-05-06 03:40:06 PM

Overfiend: DamnYankees: HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.

His positions are all on his wikipedia page. Nothing insane as far as I can see, though certainly he'd be a far leftist in America.

You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?

/tomorrow the flight of the wealthy begins from France


1 million euros. With differences in level of living + currency rate, that's equivalent to $3M. Very few people will be impacted.
 
2012-05-06 03:40:25 PM

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.


I am struggling to see how that is a counter-point to what he said.
 
2012-05-06 03:40:56 PM
We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power. We want attractive people who are glib and have nice teeth and we fantasize about them having a beer with us. You know, failed actors and blowhards.
 
2012-05-06 03:41:13 PM
Mentat: Account created: 2012-01-14 20:37:18

Gee, I wonder why RON PAUL has such a strong online presence.
 
2012-05-06 03:42:18 PM

gameshowhost: Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.

He already mentioned the military.


i7.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-06 03:42:20 PM
I can only think of the words of Le Nouvel Observateur when Mitterand was elected in 1981, "Quel fête! Quel délivrance!"
 
2012-05-06 03:42:41 PM

Mrtraveler01: DamnYankees: Mrtraveler01: If you think it was bad in France, check out what happened in Greece today:

Doe this even matter? No offense to the Greeks, but it seems like their fate is sort of out of their control.

No, they've dug too deep. They're pretty much only delaying the inevitable at this point.


Great, just farking great. Balrogs. I hate these guys.
 
2012-05-06 03:42:56 PM

Sabyen91: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

People with brains realize every industrial nation has a mixed economy. Socialism and capitalism don't exist in any pure form.


Capitalism does -- it was shown on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom every Sunday night.
 
2012-05-06 03:43:06 PM

Malivon: Here's a question. Why would electing a socialist be a bad thing?


In this one case it may not be. France trying to pump-prime it's way out of debt by borrowing yet more may be the straw the break's the Euro's back. Just maybe the EU will halt it's slide towards a socialist superstate and go back to being a free trade area.
 
2012-05-06 03:45:18 PM

Mentat: So, it looks like it's going to be France vs. Germany for the future of Europe. What could possibly go wrong?


To be fair, hasn't it been France vs. Germany for the future of Europe with Russia, Britain, and the US acting as spoilers since 1870 or so?

/Except Cold War which was US vs. Russia, but France was certainly trying to be involved to a certain extent, and Germany was split, occupied, and recovering from WWII.
 
2012-05-06 03:45:52 PM

gameshowhost: Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.

He already mentioned the military.


Fun fact: the combined budget of the three main U.S. Socialist programs (DoD + SS + Medicare) exceeds the GDP of France.
 
2012-05-06 03:46:35 PM

bunner: We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power.


I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.
 
2012-05-06 03:48:33 PM

Captain Couscous: gameshowhost: Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: xebeche_tzu: So maybe someone can explain this to me. What exactly is it that makes The United States NOT a socialist country already? The government runs EVERYTHING. Five military branches, the roads, the schools, the postal system, and the following seven hundred gigantic agencies: FDA, ATF, etc

How could the US become any more socialist? Government bacon?

Our P.O.S. welfare state, to start.

He already mentioned the military.

Fun fact: the combined budget of the three main U.S. Socialist programs (DoD + SS + Medicare) exceeds the GDP of France.


Considering the US GDP is about 6 times France's I am not sure what that says.
 
2012-05-06 03:48:42 PM

jagabaya: Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.


THIS

Sarkozy is an asshole, and has all kinds of court dates and trials awaiting his corrupt ass. For some reason the French president is immune from investigations while in office. Now, I hope they hang his ass out to dry in the next few months.
 
2012-05-06 03:49:01 PM

Mrtraveler01: I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.


Who's a clever boy?
 
2012-05-06 03:50:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: jagabaya: Good.

Sarcozy is a tool.

I did respect the man's taste when it came to women's posteriors.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 411x310]


Still one of my favorite pictures between Obama looking, and Sarcozy's expression.
 
2012-05-06 03:50:29 PM
Elle ne veut pas travailler, elle ne veut pas dejeuner, elle veut seulement sociolizer, et puis elle fume.
 
2012-05-06 03:51:40 PM

LordBollocks: Malivon: Here's a question. Why would electing a socialist be a bad thing?

In this one case it may not be. France trying to pump-prime it's way out of debt by borrowing yet more may be the straw the break's the Euro's back. Just maybe the EU will halt it's slide towards a socialist superstate and go back to being a free trade area.


and how would life under another Sarkozy presidency be any different?

newsflash: there is very little difference between political parties in France when it comes to economic policies.

I guess Fark Independents have collective amnesia. A couple of years ago Eurostar decided to not order trains from a French company, buying them from Siemens instead. Sarkozy's government tried to sue Eurostar to force it to buy French trains, despite there not being ANY contractural obligations to for Eurostar to do so.
 
2012-05-06 03:52:20 PM

Akpr8: A monument of some damn French woman surrendering. Fark them those socialist basturds.


[mw2.google.com image 500x375]


Oh my god, the Statue of Liberty should be banned!
 
2012-05-06 03:53:11 PM

Mrtraveler01: bunner: We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power.

I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.


Oh, and to address your inference with a bit of honesty, he's the only dog in the pack who isn't coasting on sketchy laurels or a complete tool shed. I didn't call these people, they're just the ones who showed up and filled out the forms.
 
2012-05-06 03:53:23 PM

montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.

Wow. There is so much ignorance in that statement, I don't know where to start.

/why bother?


MeinRS6 is a notorious goosestepper here on Fark. His comments make Skinnyhead's seem rational.
 
2012-05-06 03:58:11 PM

bunner: Oh, and to address your inference with a bit of honesty, he's the only dog in the pack who isn't coasting on sketchy laurels or a complete tool shed.


No, he's a complete toolshed who lacks the grasp of even the most basic of economics.

This is a guy who complains about the Federal Government getting too involved but doesn't mind it when pork or any subsidy comes to his district.

But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian".
 
2012-05-06 03:58:49 PM

Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.


you are hoping we go down? because if the EU does so do we. this is about Caterpillar Europe has performed well for Caterpillar, too, and, even though it sees a mild recession in Europe - which it doesn't expect to spill over to other parts of the world - it expects capital spending in the area to increase, and sales of machines into Europe to be about the same as in 2011.

their sales in south east asia and china won't save them if the EU collapses.
 
2012-05-06 03:58:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: FlashHarry: well, the austerity experiment that cameron's conservatives have put forth in the UK has failed.

It obviously failed because it wasn't conservative ENOUGH.

/standard conservative excuse for their failures


/projector.jpg
 
2012-05-06 03:59:44 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: bunner: We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power.

I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.

Oh, and to address your inference with a bit of honesty, he's the only dog in the pack who isn't coasting on sketchy laurels or a complete tool shed. I didn't call these people, they're just the ones who showed up and filled out the forms.


Huh. I've never seen you say something stupid before. First for everything I guess.
 
2012-05-06 03:59:53 PM
During the previous French election 2 weeks ago the Euro fell amid speculation of Sarkozy's defeat. Since he has been defeated today, and since the Euro has already been falling across the board with all the other majors during the last few weeks, the market will probably have some really nice setups for multiple pairs to go short.
 
2012-05-06 03:59:57 PM
Hey look, it's a group of people pretending to know what French political parties and politicians are about.

I can only imagine you sound as stupid to the French as when foreigners talk about American politics and what's best for us.

(I don't know shiat about French politics either, mais j'apprends le francais. Yes, I know a c cedille is on there, but I'm too lazy to look up the alt-code for it.
 
2012-05-06 04:01:17 PM

TV's Vinnie: montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.

Wow. There is so much ignorance in that statement, I don't know where to start.

/why bother?

MeinRS6 is a notorious goosestepper here on Fark.


In what way am I a goosestepper, moron? None of my opinions are in line with national socialism.

You Farklibs are the only goosesteppers around here.
 
2012-05-06 04:01:27 PM

MeinRS6: Is there no amount of evidence that could convince you otherwise? It's all around you


Okay. Name some of it. Seeing as how it's "all around you"

Is it the fact that Germany has a socialist healthcare system and is one of the strongest economies in the world?

Could it be the fact that the Scandinavians have some of the highest standards of living in the world?
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:02:18 PM

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


The far-right vote often splits down traditional left/right views. In England we have the far-right British National Party, but it is disaffected working-class Labour (left-wing) voters that they pick up when they are doing well, not disaffected Conservatives. Disaffected conservatives go the UK Independence Party.

France just has all one party for its jingoistic racist loons, so when that vote splits it goes both ways. Working class types who think what is best for them will be a socialist in power will have voted for Hollande, and those racists for whom low taxes/protecting their own personal wealth was top of the agenda will have voted for Sarkozy.

/all of the above may be bullshiat, but hey, I tried.
 
2012-05-06 04:02:34 PM

Mrtraveler01: But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian


Also "smart"
 
2012-05-06 04:02:46 PM

Mrtraveler01: But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian".


No he isn't. Nor does he portend to be. I like to think of him as the man who may be the progenitor of the "cut the f*cking horesh*t" party. We need one. There's a lot of ostensibly etched in stone bad ideas extant in the economic an political landscape and nobody else mentions this. That's hardly a lack of any grasp of economic principles, that's a very lucid grasp of the fact that if you're gong over a cliff, you don't argue about who didn't empty the ashtrays.
 
2012-05-06 04:03:07 PM

Mentat: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Ppl stop acting like americans dont know what a socialist is or that Obama isnt. If it wasnt for the checks and balances of the US govt the US would be in a complete socialist state right now. You know if Obama could literally do whatever he wanted w/o approval of others. That being said idgaf bc now that we know the republican candidate, we are completely farked.
/not even voting
//americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in

Account created: 2012-01-14 20:37:18


Really got me with the account created argument there. U proved that i didnt know fark existed until a short time ago.
/ not sure how that relates to my argument at all
// all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl and protecting those rights. Over the last 20yrs our govt over and over violates our rights
 
2012-05-06 04:03:11 PM

topcon: Hey look, it's a group of people pretending to know what French political parties and politicians are about.

I can only imagine you sound as stupid to the French as when foreigners talk about American politics and what's best for us.

(I don't know shiat about French politics either, mais j'apprends le francais. Yes, I know a c cedille is on there, but I'm too lazy to look up the alt-code for it.


Hey man, I'm just here to see if I have to start calling my French Fries "Freedom Fries" again or not
 
2012-05-06 04:03:30 PM

topcon: Yes, I know a c cedille is on there, but I'm too lazy to look up the alt-code for it.


Here, have mine: ç
I'm having smuggled out of the country before the commies take it.

/ save "à" "é", "è" and "ê" too if you can
 
2012-05-06 04:05:27 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl and protecting those rights.


except when it comes to women and their bodies
 
2012-05-06 04:05:31 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Huh. I've never seen you say something stupid I disagreed with enough to be insulting about before. First for everything I guess.


And a whole lot of repeats if you read these posts enough. Snotty will never equal intellectual acuity. I'm over it. You should be, too.
 
2012-05-06 04:05:48 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl states and protecting those rights unless those states say otherwise.


FTFY

/Now THAT'S Honesty!
 
2012-05-06 04:06:47 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: But I will give him credit for fooling his supporters into thinking he's actually a "libertarian".

No he isn't. Nor does he portend to be. I like to think of him as the man who may be the progenitor of the "cut the f*cking horesh*t" party. We need one. There's a lot of ostensibly etched in stone bad ideas extant in the economic an political landscape and nobody else mentions this. That's hardly a lack of any grasp of economic principles, that's a very lucid grasp of the fact that if you're gong over a cliff, you don't argue about who didn't empty the ashtrays.


So we should be supportive of Ron Paul's horribly bad ideas because they're different?
 
2012-05-06 04:07:04 PM

MeinRS6: In what way am I a goosestepper, moron? None of my opinions are in line with national socialism


You don't know what National Socialism was, do you.
 
2012-05-06 04:07:31 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: topcon: Hey look, it's a group of people pretending to know what French political parties and politicians are about.

I can only imagine you sound as stupid to the French as when foreigners talk about American politics and what's best for us.

(I don't know shiat about French politics either, mais j'apprends le francais. Yes, I know a c cedille is on there, but I'm too lazy to look up the alt-code for it.

Hey man, I'm just here to see if I have to start calling my French Fries "Freedom Fries" again or not


that doesn't bother French people that much. if anything, it prompts them to laugh at Americans even harder. (fries are from Belgium anyway)

what really hurts them? seeing their wines dumped on the street.
 
2012-05-06 04:07:59 PM

dumbobruni: and how would life under another Sarkozy presidency be any different?


Sarkozy wanted to stick with the German austerity plan. Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Assuming France manages to borrow the money then in a little while they will be in the same condition as Greece and Spain and there will be no more ECB/IMF money left for bailouts
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:08:22 PM

MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.

I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment, but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?
 
2012-05-06 04:08:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: bunner: We won't elect Ron Paul because we don't want honest or smart people in positions of power.

I see your point but I don't see what Ron Paul has to do with any of that.


Hes been telling us for 30yrs that the federal reserve was gonna fark us and that the constitution doesnt give a private company the right to print money.
/ no one listened
// now the whole US economy is farked
 
2012-05-06 04:08:32 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: Is there no amount of evidence that could convince you otherwise? It's all around you

Okay. Name some of it. Seeing as how it's "all around you"

Is it the fact that Germany has a socialist healthcare system and is one of the strongest economies in the world?

Could it be the fact that the Scandinavians have some of the highest standards of living in the world?


TBH, up here in Maine, it aint exactly a shiathole. This state is one of the safest states in the US. Violent crime is not a big issue up here.

Why is this? We are not a liberal state. We are a moderate state that does lean to the left, but no where close to anywhere near Mass. liberalism. Our standard of living for our homeless is higher than some children who live in Philadelphia.

Could it be cultural? I dont know. Could it be that we have more money? Well, no, in fact we receive more federal funds than we pay in. So why are we like this? Are we more armed up here? Well, we are above average, but that wont account fully for the lack of serious crime. What makes my state so special?
 
2012-05-06 04:08:43 PM

Pincy: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl and protecting those rights.

except when it comes to women and their bodies


Naw if you want to join a psychotic death cult fixating on the right to infanticide go ahead.
 
2012-05-06 04:08:45 PM

Mrtraveler01: So we should be supportive of Ron Paul's horribly bad ideas because they're different?


Do you know what that particular debate device is called? Look it up. It's widely held to be terribly sophomoric and disingenuous. And you probably know why.
 
2012-05-06 04:08:54 PM

bunner: That's hardly a lack of any grasp of economic principles, that's a very lucid grasp of the fact that if you're gong over a cliff


Just because you recognize the obvious doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're just barely above retarded.

If Person 1 recognizes that there's a fire in the kitchen, and puts it out, he's smart

If Person 1 recognizes that there's a fire in the kitchen, and recommends going out to eat, he's not.

It's that simple
 
2012-05-06 04:09:17 PM
Does this mean that France will be losing their single payer health care system?
 
2012-05-06 04:10:21 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Hes been telling us for 30yrs that the federal reserve was gonna fark us and that the constitution doesnt give a private company the right to print money


That's great. Show me where the Fed is privately-owned.

/hint
//it's not
 
2012-05-06 04:11:14 PM

Herschel Pinkus Yerucham Shmoikel Krustofsky: El Brujo: Unintended pun about the French. You know what I mean...talking about palin-americans.
Good on ya though for pointing that out! I must need another cup of coffee, because I'm not a French hater and don't understand why any American in their right mind would be. Totally misguided and undeserved.


Because Freedom fries.

(I can't believe that actually happened.)


That was...unbelievable. And those are our elected officials. Have you seen Idiocracy? It's in full-farking-swing and it makes me sad. That movie is prophetic.
 
2012-05-06 04:11:15 PM

LordBollocks: Sarkozy wanted to stick with the German austerity plan. Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.


So in other words, the EU will be in an even bigger deadlock than before.

Goody...
 
2012-05-06 04:11:44 PM
www1.pictures.zimbio.com

RIP
French
 
2012-05-06 04:11:50 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: So we should be supportive of Ron Paul's horribly bad ideas because they're different?

Do you know what that particular debate device is called? Look it up. It's widely held to be terribly sophomoric and disingenuous. And you probably know why.


So you have no defense for Ron Paul's bad ideas?
 
2012-05-06 04:11:57 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Just because you recognize the obvious doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're just barely above retarded.

If Person 1 recognizes that there's a fire in the kitchen, and puts it out, he's smart

If Person 1 recognizes that there's a fire in the kitchen, and recommends going out to eat, he's not.

It's that simple


That has to be the most inapplicable analogy I've ever read. Seriously. I mean, I don't give a rat's fanny who yo vote for or don', but... no. Sorry, no.
 
2012-05-06 04:12:34 PM

Cheese eating surrender monkey: topcon: Yes, I know a c cedille is on there, but I'm too lazy to look up the alt-code for it.

Here, have mine: ç
I'm having smuggled out of the country before the commies take it.

/ save "à" "é", "è" and "ê" too if you can


I've got to learn how to type those fluidly and without thought at some point.
 
2012-05-06 04:13:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: So you have no defense for Ron Paul's bad ideas?


Same device, plus a rally clapped out posture of authority pose. : ) whoever you're trying to rally to your "team", here, focus on them. Not me.
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:14:13 PM

Delay: Does this mean that France will be losing their single payer health care system?


No country with a single payer health care system would willingly give it up, whether ruled by a liberal or conservative government. You'd have to be mad.
 
2012-05-06 04:15:03 PM

Heb: I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment


Yeah. I feel really bad about posting sarcasm on Fark. The horror.

but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?

Does google not work at your house?
 
2012-05-06 04:15:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Hes been telling us for 30yrs that the federal reserve was gonna fark us and that the constitution doesnt give a private company the right to print money

That's great. Show me where the Fed is privately-owned.

/hint
//it's not


It definently is, not ran by our govt. 8 th grade education dude? I learned that shiat in HS AND THEY MAKE A PROFIT BASICALLY SELLING MONEY TO BANKS
/ and they over printed it to keep making those profits, and thats what causes a little thing called INFLATION, which then put us in a RECESSION
/hope those words arent to big for u, u may have to look them up in a dictionary
 
2012-05-06 04:16:59 PM

bunner: That has to be the most inapplicable analogy I've ever read. Seriously. I mean, I don't give a rat's fanny who yo vote for or don', but... no. Sorry, no


Why not? Please tell me how Ron Paul's ideas are the former and not the latter.
 
2012-05-06 04:17:20 PM
Hollande invades France.
 
2012-05-06 04:18:13 PM

LordBollocks: dumbobruni: and how would life under another Sarkozy presidency be any different?

Sarkozy wanted to stick with the German austerity plan. Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.



no, not really.

Despite fears that he will pursue a "dangerous" economic policy featuring a return to Keynesian tax-and-spend practices, Hollande and his campaign team have told the Germans that this has been ruled out. "We can't do Keynesianism twice in 10 years," Michel Sapin, the former finance minister who wrote Hollande's economic programme, told senior German diplomats, according to a confidential note obtained by the Guardian.

Link
 
2012-05-06 04:18:41 PM
I wonder how the GOP will react to this news? do you think they'll even notice?
 
2012-05-06 04:20:48 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: It definently is, not ran by our govt. 8 th grade education dude? I learned that shiat in HS AND THEY MAKE A PROFIT BASICALLY SELLING MONEY TO BANKS


No you didn't.

Are you saying there is no Congressional oversight of the FED?

Because you are incorrect, sir.
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:21:19 PM

MeinRS6: Heb: I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment

Yeah. I feel really bad about posting sarcasm on Fark. The horror.

but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?

Does google not work at your house?


I had always understood that the point of sarcasm was to make fun of something else, rather than to make yourself look like an idiot.

Still, by all means carry on.
 
2012-05-06 04:21:28 PM

cameroncrazy1984: bunner: That has to be the most inapplicable analogy I've ever read. Seriously. I mean, I don't give a rat's fanny who yo vote for or don', but... no. Sorry, no

Why not? Please tell me how Ron Paul's ideas are the former and not the latter.


Why? You've already made up your mind that he's a nincompoop and, looking at the sea of sheep twats littering the rest of the political landscape, I'm sort of fine with that.
 
2012-05-06 04:21:55 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: So you have no defense for Ron Paul's bad ideas?

Same device, plus a rally clapped out posture of authority pose. : ) whoever you're trying to rally to your "team", here, focus on them. Not me.


So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.
 
2012-05-06 04:22:17 PM
drewsclues 2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still less Socialist than Obama, because Obama keeps it a secret.

steamingpile 2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still better than Obama.


Now THAT is a simulpost!
 
2012-05-06 04:22:30 PM

Krymson Tyde: It's back to freedom fries for this here red-blooded American.


Freedom fries are *sooo* last decade. Behold, tornado fries!
www.festivals-and-shows.com
 
2012-05-06 04:22:58 PM

Thorndyke Barnhard: drewsclues 2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still less Socialist than Obama, because Obama keeps it a secret.

steamingpile 2012-05-06 02:39:07 PM
Still better than Obama.


Now THAT is a simulpost!


they're reading from the same script.
 
2012-05-06 04:23:16 PM

bunner: Why? You've already made up your mind that he's a nincompoop and, looking at the sea of sheep twats littering the rest of the political landscape, I'm sort of fine with that


And this is why RON PAUL supporters are terrible supporters. They can't name a single idea of his that they like. They can only complain that people don't pay attention to him because he's different.

It's too bad, really.

If you knew any of his ideas, you wouldn't support him in the first place.
 
2012-05-06 04:23:32 PM
I hate it when media outlets declare the winner of an election and state they won with the current vote percentages, because Hollande is winning by seven points currently, not four...

/vote freak
 
2012-05-06 04:23:43 PM

MadMagnum: Pincy: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: // all im saying ron paul believes in the rights of the american ppl and protecting those rights.

except when it comes to women and their bodies

Naw if you want to join a psychotic death cult fixating on the right to infanticide go ahead.


There are people killing babies?

Why are you wasting valuable time here?

You should call your local police station and inform then right away!

Ron Paul isn't any kind of libertarian, btw, he's a "state's right's" advocate who's overly cozy with racist RW elements, who wants to take away a woman's autonomy, feels uncomfortable with the Civil rights act allowing black folks to eat in public, who would perfectly happy to let the state's become inhumane authoritarian clusterfarks as long as the "right kind of people" are in charge.

His chats about withdrawing the military apparatus that backs up American economic hegemony are useful but beyond that I have little use for him or his nutty kid.
 
2012-05-06 04:24:36 PM

Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.


1.bp.blogspot.com

I think we're done here. I know I am.
 
2012-05-06 04:24:39 PM
Of course you're not a goosestepper Mein - it's just that farkers are horribly unfair and think you're a morally bankrupt asshole because of your moderate center right approach.
 
2012-05-06 04:25:44 PM

El Pachuco: Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.


Especially the ones that had nothing to do with that success.
 
2012-05-06 04:25:52 PM

quatchi: Ron Paul isn't any kind of libertarian, btw, he's a "state's right's" advocate who's overly cozy with racist RW elements, who wants to take away a woman's autonomy, feels uncomfortable with the Civil rights act allowing black folks to eat in public, who would perfectly happy to let the state's become inhumane authoritarian clusterfarks as long as the "right kind of people" are in charge


Also, he wants to bring back the gold standard, which would destroy the US economy, OR he wants each state to decide its own currency, which would do the same thing.

Who wants to bet that Bunner didn't know any of that?
 
2012-05-06 04:26:30 PM

El Brujo: kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.

Any American who believes we now have a socialist nation is not someone who should even be given the time of day. These are the same kinds of people who say we have a neegra muslin' for president who wants to take your gun away, and on the opposite side, people who believe jet trails in the sky are means to spy on us.

I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country. Unfortunately, misinformation (24 hour "news" entertainment) has deeply corrupted our collective intelligence. It's farking sad.

I'll believe we are socialist once I stop seeing hundreds of our citizens dying in doorways, on park benches, and in city parks year after year. And when I don't have to not go to my doctor when layoffs happen and I can't afford COBRA.


t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-05-06 04:26:44 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]

I think we're done here. I know I am.


It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.
 
2012-05-06 04:27:37 PM

MeinRS6: TV's Vinnie: montex: MeinRS6: Raise taxes and increase gov't spending! That will fix everything.

Thank Allah for socialism.

Wow. There is so much ignorance in that statement, I don't know where to start.

/why bother?

MeinRS6 is a notorious goosestepper here on Fark.

In what way am I a goosestepper, moron? None of my opinions are in line with national socialism.

You Farklibs are the only goosesteppers around here.


www.threadbombing.com
 
2012-05-06 04:29:07 PM

cameroncrazy1984: bunner: Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]

I think we're done here. I know I am.

It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.


I like his idea to drop the embargo on Cuba.
 
2012-05-06 04:29:13 PM

Snarfangel: Krymson Tyde: It's back to freedom fries for this here red-blooded American.

Freedom fries are *sooo* last decade. Behold, tornado fries!
[www.festivals-and-shows.com image 400x300]


That looks delicious. Moving on, no one really has answered my question up thread in a way that I feel that it answers the question.
 
2012-05-06 04:30:02 PM
ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR:

It definently is, not ran by our govt. 8 th grade education dude? I learned that shiat in HS AND THEY MAKE A PROFIT BASICALLY SELLING MONEY TO BANKS
/ and they over printed it to keep making those profits, and thats what causes a little thing called INFLATION, which then put us in a RECESSION
/hope those words arent to big for u, u may have to look them up in a dictionary


What the fark did I just read?
 
2012-05-06 04:30:52 PM

cameroncrazy1984: quatchi: Ron Paul isn't any kind of libertarian, btw, he's a "state's right's" advocate who's overly cozy with racist RW elements, who wants to take away a woman's autonomy, feels uncomfortable with the Civil rights act allowing black folks to eat in public, who would perfectly happy to let the state's become inhumane authoritarian clusterfarks as long as the "right kind of people" are in charge

Also, he wants to bring back the gold standard, which would destroy the US economy, OR he wants each state to decide its own currency, which would do the same thing.

Who wants to bet that Bunner didn't know any of that?


I'd put a silver dime down on that!

^__^
 
2012-05-06 04:30:54 PM

bunner: Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]

I think we're done here. I know I am.


Wait, how is that projecting again?
 
2012-05-06 04:31:18 PM

SenorPez: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR:

It definently is, not ran by our govt. 8 th grade education dude? I learned that shiat in HS AND THEY MAKE A PROFIT BASICALLY SELLING MONEY TO BANKS
/ and they over printed it to keep making those profits, and thats what causes a little thing called INFLATION, which then put us in a RECESSION
/hope those words arent to big for u, u may have to look them up in a dictionary

What the fark did I just read?


I am leaning toward meta.
 
2012-05-06 04:31:49 PM

SenorPez: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR:

It definently is, not ran by our govt. 8 th grade education dude? I learned that shiat in HS AND THEY MAKE A PROFIT BASICALLY SELLING MONEY TO BANKS
/ and they over printed it to keep making those profits, and thats what causes a little thing called INFLATION, which then put us in a RECESSION
/hope those words arent to big for u, u may have to look them up in a dictionary

What the fark did I just read?


My guess? A 9th grader's essay.
 
2012-05-06 04:34:15 PM
Sarkozy may have had his faults and flaws but Hollande is a total retard. His plans are for a 75% top tax rate and basically to ignore already negotiated treaties. But because he is a leftist, 90% of fark is now doubt fapping to the fact that he was elected
 
2012-05-06 04:34:28 PM

cameroncrazy1984: And this is why RON PAUL supporters are terrible supporters. They can't name a single idea of his that they like.


Wowee, you sure got ME nailed. Hoo boy!

cameroncrazy1984: If you knew any of his ideas, you wouldn't support him in the first place.


I'll never be able to thank you for resorting to cheap shots like calling me ignorant or an idiot for liking a political candidate you do not. Its precisely the robust sort of debate methods that have made America what it is today. A failing sh*hole full of poor people barking at each others flags while the same monkeys clean out the safe.
 
2012-05-06 04:35:09 PM
IamalsoOKwiththis.jpg
 
2012-05-06 04:35:09 PM

mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate


I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.
 
2012-05-06 04:36:04 PM

bunner: I'll never be able to thank you for resorting to cheap shots like calling me ignorant or an idiot for liking a political candidate you do not. Its precisely the robust sort of debate methods that have made America what it is today. A failing sh*hole full of poor people barking at each others flags while the same monkeys clean out the safe


You know, it'd be so much easier for you to defend Ron Paul's ideas if you weren't up there on that cross.

Because all you've done so far is complain that we're being unfair for asking you why different with crap ideas is better.
 
2012-05-06 04:38:13 PM

cameroncrazy1984: It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.


So, you're trying to attack ME and not Ron Paul? Why should I try and sell you something you turned your nose up at? I don't give a William nor Nilliam polly wolly doo dah f*ck if you vote for a character from the Simpsons and frankly, it would matter about as much if you did. You don't like Ron Paul. I get it. Now then, do I owe you money or something?
 
2012-05-06 04:39:33 PM
I wonder if this will cause people to research the true definition of socialism and then compare it to how our current president has been portrayed vs. what he actually is doing. Not holding my breath.
 
2012-05-06 04:39:35 PM

cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.


And, in the 1950's we also had Jim Crow laws and no Medicare. Are you advocating for those things as well?
 
2012-05-06 04:39:37 PM

Allen. The end.: randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.

Mange merde un morte.


Tsk Tsk, non. C'est impossible; mange merde ET mort, pas 'un'. Ou, peut-être mange merde en flambé, par example.
 
2012-05-06 04:40:40 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Because all you've done so far is complain that we're being unfair for asking you why different with crap ideas is better.


Of course I have, dear. just complain, complain, complain. Mmmhmm.

*The next installment of "Trolling With Cameron" will not be presented because Cameron has lost his sponsor.
 
2012-05-06 04:41:39 PM

bunner: cameroncrazy1984: It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.

So, you're trying to attack ME and not Ron Paul? Why should I try and sell you something you turned your nose up at? I don't give a William nor Nilliam polly wolly doo dah f*ck if you vote for a character from the Simpsons and frankly, it would matter about as much if you did. You don't like Ron Paul. I get it. Now then, do I owe you money or something?


I'm just interested to find out why you think "he's different" is a reason for supporting him, and not "his ideas would work," because you've spent this entire thread saying that "the same people" don't work and that Ron Paul isn't "the same people" so somehow that means he's the better choice. Especially considering there are a lot of other politicians who recognize the same problems with the economy and government that Ron Paul appears to, however their ideas aren't as radical as "end the fed" and "use the gold standard."

What makes Ron Paul "different" from other politicians who recognize that the same issues exist, if not his ideas?
 
2012-05-06 04:41:58 PM

mikemoto: And, in the 1950's we also had Jim Crow laws and no Medicare.


You support Medicare? Typical, "Big Government" loving lib... makes my American stomach sick!
 
2012-05-06 04:42:01 PM

mainsail: Allen. The end.: randomjsa: Trust the French to take a look around at left wing ideas falling apart all around them and decide, hey, we need more of this.

Mange merde un morte.

Tsk Tsk, non. C'est impossible; mange merde ET mort, pas 'un'. Ou, peut-être mange merde en flambé, par example.


I have to go, my grandmother is on fire....

/Je suis le president de Burundi!
 
2012-05-06 04:42:03 PM

bunner: cameroncrazy1984: It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.

So, you're trying to attack ME and not Ron Paul? Why should I try and sell you something you turned your nose up at? I don't give a William nor Nilliam polly wolly doo dah f*ck if you vote for a character from the Simpsons and frankly, it would matter about as much if you did. You don't like Ron Paul. I get it. Now then, do I owe you money or something?


lol, you guys are crazy.

/Ron Paul is a senile old coot with a broken ideology and no understanding of economics and his rabid fan base is composed of halfwits and pseudo anarchists
 
2012-05-06 04:42:19 PM

Vindibudd: El Pachuco: Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.

Especially the ones that had nothing to do with that success.


And what did you do to deserve to drive on my paved roads?
 
2012-05-06 04:42:50 PM

mikemoto: cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.

And, in the 1950's we also had Jim Crow laws and no Medicare. Are you advocating for those things as well?


Uh, no. We know why Jim Crow and no Medicare are a bad idea. Why is a 75% top tax rate also a bad idea, one that makes you compare it to those other two things?
 
2012-05-06 04:44:38 PM

bunner: cameroncrazy1984: Because all you've done so far is complain that we're being unfair for asking you why different with crap ideas is better.

Of course I have, dear. just complain, complain, complain. Mmmhmm.

*The next installment of "Trolling With Cameron" will not be presented because Cameron has lost his sponsor.


You certainly haven't given any positive reason for anyone to support Ron Paul.

Oh, and it's "trolling" now to ask questions about why a poster supports a certain candidate? You have a weird definition of trolling.o
 
2012-05-06 04:45:28 PM

Heb: MeinRS6: Heb: I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment

Yeah. I feel really bad about posting sarcasm on Fark. The horror.

but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?

Does google not work at your house?

I had always understood that the point of sarcasm was to make fun of something else, rather than to make yourself look like an idiot.


/facepalm

It's not my problem if you don't get the joke.
 
2012-05-06 04:45:47 PM
The wife's boss has dual citizenship - voted in the French elections and will vote in the US elections this fall.

Don't want to put words in his mouth - generalizing tends to skew the intent - but, at least for him, the big difference between the two was: what to do about the economy, and what to do about the increasingly large number of disaffected and 'un-assimilated' Muslim populace.

Generalized description of his opinion:
Sarkozy - austerity, honoring obligations, ride it out until the economy rights itself. Immigrants: assimilate - public safety trumps religious right to hide your women's face in public.
Hollande - austerity and honoring obligations... up to a point, but requires careful consideration of 'pain' short term vs long term. Immigrants: more government leverage to improve their situation. Give them a voice and let them actively participate in shaping their and France's future.

He's fairly conservative, so he hates Hollande w/ the power of a thousand suns... lol.
 
2012-05-06 04:46:03 PM
Something can be socialIST without being socialISM. Some people in here don't know the difference between the adjective and the noun. You can describe someone or something as socialist even if it doesn't fit every letter of a long textbook definition. That is why it is possible to warn against socialist policies in America even though we're not as extreme as parts of Old Europe.
 
2012-05-06 04:46:23 PM
Aside from giving a middle finger to the austerity pushers and beefing up the existing public sector, what is really socialist about this guy?

People with the American definition of "socialism" need not apply.
 
2012-05-06 04:47:17 PM

ontariolightning: ill never understand why americans are so scared of taxes


Because we don't trust the government to spend it wisely. Other entities may not as well, but we *know* the government will fark it up.

Ref: multiple idiot wars, fraud, shiat we don't need but benefits some senators bro in law, etc, etc
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:49:11 PM

cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.


The US had a 70% top rate of tax in 1981. 75% isn't unreasonable at all, though I've no idea at what amount he is suggesting the top rate kicks in.
 
2012-05-06 04:49:57 PM

STRYPERSWINE: That is why it is possible to warn against socialist policies in America even though we're not as extreme as parts of Old Europe


Why would you warn people about socialist policies in America?
 
2012-05-06 04:51:06 PM

Heb: cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.

The US had a 70% top rate of tax in 1981. 75% isn't unreasonable at all, though I've no idea at what amount he is suggesting the top rate kicks in.


1 million Euros.
 
2012-05-06 04:51:50 PM

cameroncrazy1984: STRYPERSWINE: That is why it is possible to warn against socialist policies in America even though we're not as extreme as parts of Old Europe

Why would you warn people about socialist policies in America?


Because it is socialism!...oh, wait, it is only socialistic.

/I believe it was some sort of rationalization for something.
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:51:58 PM

MeinRS6: Heb: MeinRS6: Heb: I appreciate that others have pointed out quite how stupid you have made yourself look with this comment

Yeah. I feel really bad about posting sarcasm on Fark. The horror.

but out of curiosity have their been (or indeed are there) any socialist Islamic countries?

Does google not work at your house?

I had always understood that the point of sarcasm was to make fun of something else, rather than to make yourself look like an idiot.

/facepalm

It's not my problem if you don't get the joke.


I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke. Crying that the audience is laughing at you instead of with you isn't helping your cause either.
 
2012-05-06 04:52:25 PM

dumbobruni: Despite fears that he will pursue a "dangerous" economic policy featuring a return to Keynesian tax-and-spend practices, Hollande and his campaign team have told the Germans that this has been ruled out. "We can't do Keynesianism twice in 10 years," Michel Sapin, the former finance minister who wrote Hollande's economic programme, told senior German diplomats, according to a confidential note obtained by the Guardian.

Link


So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.
 
2012-05-06 04:54:03 PM

blueviking: /Je suis le president de Burundi!


aimez-vous prendre du café ?
 
Heb
2012-05-06 04:55:50 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Heb: cameroncrazy1984: mikemoto: His plans are for a 75% top tax rate

I'm sorry, you're going to have to convince me that a 75% top tax rate is a bad idea. It was 90% here in the 1950s.

The US had a 70% top rate of tax in 1981. 75% isn't unreasonable at all, though I've no idea at what amount he is suggesting the top rate kicks in.

1 million Euros.


Seems pretty reasonable. The US is 81 had the top rate kick in somewhere around the $100k mark.

The Republicans seem to love "how things were" but if they only put taxes back as they were the US would be sorted in next to no time.
 
2012-05-06 04:56:33 PM

LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.


Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?
 
2012-05-06 04:57:40 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?


I'd rather have a strong middle class than a strong wealthy class.
 
2012-05-06 04:58:06 PM

T-Servo: How the far-right was the real winner in French elections.

I'm not sure I'd agree, but... I'll miss Carla Bruni.


All I have been reading lately is that the hard right in France were winning, and a socialiste pulls the win.
 
2012-05-06 04:58:25 PM

Heb: I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke.


I'm entirely certain that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Do you even know what you are trying to attack me about now? Just STFU. No one cares.
 
2012-05-06 04:58:51 PM
Interesting times indeed.
 
2012-05-06 04:59:26 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?


"Not true! It is CRUCIAL to kowtow to the wealthy of we have no future!" - The Wealthy™
 
Heb
2012-05-06 05:00:36 PM

MeinRS6: Heb: I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke.

I'm entirely certain that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Do you even know what you are trying to attack me about now? Just STFU. No one cares.


I'm not trying to attack you at all. Why would I? I was just helpfully pointing out that you've made yourself look like an idiot, but willingly concede that it is your right to continue to do so.

And may I say, you are doing a grand job.
 
2012-05-06 05:06:14 PM

LordBollocks: dumbobruni: Despite fears that he will pursue a "dangerous" economic policy featuring a return to Keynesian tax-and-spend practices, Hollande and his campaign team have told the Germans that this has been ruled out. "We can't do Keynesianism twice in 10 years," Michel Sapin, the former finance minister who wrote Hollande's economic programme, told senior German diplomats, according to a confidential note obtained by the Guardian.

Link

So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.


Sarkozy was planning on taxing people on income earned from overseas, which is a tax that mostly hits higher earners, and raising VAT again (by 10%). last year, Sarko put in an annual wealth tax on assets above €790k.

how exactly is Hollande the worse alternative here?
 
2012-05-06 05:06:59 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?


If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.
 
2012-05-06 05:07:22 PM

dumbobruni: Sarkozy was planning on taxing people on income earned from overseas, which is a tax that mostly hits higher earners, and raising VAT again (by 10%). last year, Sarko put in an annual wealth tax on assets above €790k.

how exactly is Hollande the worse alternative here


Because he calls himself a Socialist, and that is ebil.
 
2012-05-06 05:08:26 PM

LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country


Which people? And why didn't that happen to the US when it was at 75% in 1981?

Do you have studies to cite?
 
2012-05-06 05:09:02 PM

cameroncrazy1984: ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Hes been telling us for 30yrs that the federal reserve was gonna fark us and that the constitution doesnt give a private company the right to print money

That's great. Show me where the Fed is privately-owned.

/hint
//it's not


The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government. In the time it took you to write this misleading and condescending comment you could have looked this up yourself.

I'm a Bernanke fan myself, by the way, so no ad hominem attacks please.
 
2012-05-06 05:10:08 PM

Weaver95: kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.

its really very simple - if you aren't a pro-Jesus republican then you are a dirty atheist socialist. that's the Republican way! which is like the chicago way, only with more tax breaks and less murder.

as for the article...if France elects a socialist does that mean we have to invade them?


Why bother? Summer is coming up and I have fishing and camping to do. Let them deal with the fallout.
 
2012-05-06 05:10:54 PM

moran: The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government. In the time it took you to write this misleading and condescending comment you could have looked this up yourself


Please cite me where you find this information. Thank you.
 
2012-05-06 05:11:38 PM
sorry, was a bit confused. the wealth tax on assets was not a sarko invention.

Sarko instead had a rise in corporate taxes in his re-election plan.

Link
 
2012-05-06 05:13:45 PM

dumbobruni: LordBollocks: dumbobruni: Despite fears that he will pursue a "dangerous" economic policy featuring a return to Keynesian tax-and-spend practices, Hollande and his campaign team have told the Germans that this has been ruled out. "We can't do Keynesianism twice in 10 years," Michel Sapin, the former finance minister who wrote Hollande's economic programme, told senior German diplomats, according to a confidential note obtained by the Guardian.

Link

So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Sarkozy was planning on taxing people on income earned from overseas, which is a tax that mostly hits higher earners, and raising VAT again (by 10%). last year, Sarko put in an annual wealth tax on assets above €790k.

how exactly is Hollande the worse alternative here?


I wasn't aware of the 790K wealth tax. Agreed that's a bad idea also.
 
2012-05-06 05:14:59 PM

moran: The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government.


Why does it get a cool ".gov" website?

Link

Can I get a .gov address for my inane Ugly Betty fan fiction website?
 
2012-05-06 05:15:48 PM

LordBollocks: The_Gallant_Gallstone: LordBollocks: So he plans on balancing the books through taxation alone while simultaneously discouraging private investment and driving the wealthiest citizens out of the country. That's an even worse plan.

Kowtowing to the uberwealthy doesn't seem to do anyone any good... so why not?

If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.


Slightly joking, but I wonder if Quebec and parts of the US are going to see an uptic in immigration for a few years.
 
2012-05-06 05:16:00 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: moran: The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government.

Why does it get a cool ".gov" website?

Link

Can I get a .gov address for my inane Ugly Betty fan fiction website?


I'm also wondering why a private bank is willing to give up all of its profits to the US Government. That seems odd to me.
 
2012-05-06 05:16:39 PM

cameroncrazy1984: STRYPERSWINE: That is why it is possible to warn against socialist policies in America even though we're not as extreme as parts of Old Europe

Why would you warn people about socialist policies in America?


because socialism that benefits the masses is evil and wrong, while socialism that benefits the corporations is good and warm and fuzzy. we can't have people going for the whole 'benefit the unwashed masses' kind of socialisms. we need to have people voting for the corporate socialisms. because f*ck you, that's why!
 
2012-05-06 05:17:05 PM

LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.


Despite the fact that the goose then promptly tucks that egg straight back up it's ass and bills you for the delivery room.

www.aaanything.net
 
2012-05-06 05:17:13 PM

cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country

Which people? And why didn't that happen to the US when it was at 75% in 1981?

Do you have studies to cite?


Arguing taxes and only quoting rates demonstrates ignorance of the tax code as a whole.

I would wager that you know very little about the current tax code(because you don't pay much, if anything) and even far less about the tax code and regs from 25-50yrs ago. Maybe you should look into that instead of thinking that people were actually paying 80-90% income taxes.
 
2012-05-06 05:19:55 PM

MeinRS6: would wager that you know very little about the current tax code(because you don't pay much, if anything


I would argue that you have no idea what you're talking about since I interned at the accounting firm my father owns in college.

Additionally, I would wager that I paid more than you did in taxes this year.
 
2012-05-06 05:20:07 PM
ts3.mm.bing.net
 
2012-05-06 05:21:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: leevis: I think at this point they're screwed no matter who's in charge.

I thought France was one of the better off countries in Europe. The only reason they're in trouble is that they own a good bit of the debt in the countries that are actually sucking right now (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc.)

Correct me if I'm wrong though.


By "better off" you mean *relatively* right?

Let me break it down - in the US the way money is created is what we call pulling it out of our ass. Treasury sells a bill of credit(bond, t-bill), our private corporate central bank the Federal Reserve imagines that it has money and then transfers it to the Treasury department that then prints/distributes. When commercial banks loan money, they do exactly the same imagining thing. Since every dollar printed comes with a built in interest rate, it means that the debt is mathematically unpayable using only the wealth within the system.

Now imagine every single economy in the world uses a system similar to this and you start to understand why any government that relies on debt spending to attempt to get out of a crisis is completely farked. It can't be done, quite literally. The whole mess has to be defaulted on sooner or later, either through hyper-inflation or through an outright bankruptcy.

Also, systems like this tend to exaggerate the already present imperialistic tendencies of governments because it allows the countries at the top to bring more wealth into their economy than what they created, thus easing the debt burden.

Debt eventually builds to the point of being unserviceable, happens all the time, and the thought that governments are somehow immune is laughable- they are economic actors that have taken the power to improv, but they aren't capable of changing the direction of the piece.

Euro is going down. Thanks to the work by the Trilateral Commission of integrating our economies, it will then domino into the dollar and probably the yen. Expect a new global currency to be offered up at G8 and G20 meetings.

Snarfangel: cameroncrazy1984: bunner: Mrtraveler01: So he's just trolling the American political system?

I can accept that. At least you seem smart enough to realize a lot of his ideas are pretty idiotic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]

I think we're done here. I know I am.

It's just simply too bad that, when asked to name one of Ron Paul's ideas, or defend them, you leave.

I like his idea to drop the embargo on Cuba.


Me, too.

I like his idea to redeploy all US troops to US soil. I like F.A. Hayeks idea to legalize private mints to begin coining their own currencies to compete with government ones which Doc is pushing and Paul Krugman has never even heard of by his own admission. I like his budget proposal with defunds five cabinet departments effective immediately. I like the idea of getting rid of DHS, TSA, and most other alphabet soup agencies. I like the idea of giving 25 year olds and younger the ability to opt out of Social Security and Medicare(I'm 33 so I get nothing out of this except a better future for my kids). I like the idea of repealing the entire HMO system created by US Congress. I like idea of a federal budget that a trillion dollars lighter than the previous year. I like the idea of repealing the two executive orders that took the US off of the gold standard and the slowly phasing in a gold and silver standard again(fun fact, the executive order that resulted in the Kennedy silver certificates in the 60's has never been rescinded). I like the idea of having US Treasury stop printing up T-bills and instead start simply printing "U.S. NOTES", which come with no interest attached at all. I like the idea of ending all foreign aid to all countries effective immediately.

I could go on, but why bother, you're just going to respond with the word "derp" as though that were an actual argument. Keep doing that all you want, but the young-ins are reading up on fractional reserve banking, Austrian School economics, and the basic texts of liberty by authors like Bastiat and Locke. The pendulum is swinging our way.
 
2012-05-06 05:23:25 PM

Jarhead_h: sells a bill of credit(bond, t-bill), our private corporate central bank the Federal Reserve imagines that it has money and then transfers it to the Treasury department


This is where I stopped reading. You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2012-05-06 05:23:41 PM

cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country

Which people?


Those with salaries over 1 million Euros (duh)

And why didn't that happen to the US when it was at 75% in 1981?

People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)
 
2012-05-06 05:25:14 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: would wager that you know very little about the current tax code(because you don't pay much, if anything

I would argue that you have no idea what you're talking about since I interned at the accounting firm my father owns in college.

Additionally, I would wager that I paid more than you did in taxes this year.


Wow. An intern. You mean, like, a real intern? Wow. You probably understand the tax code from the 1950-present perfectly then. I stand corrected. Now go get me some coffee.

And you would lose that wager. I recall you posting your job and there is no way that you paid more in taxes than I did, unless you also won the lottery this year. But hey, it's the interweb. You can pretend whatever you like.
 
2012-05-06 05:25:33 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Jarhead_h: sells a bill of credit(bond, t-bill), our private corporate central bank the Federal Reserve imagines that it has money and then transfers it to the Treasury department

This is where I stopped reading. You have no idea what you're talking about.


what he's referring to is 'fiat currency'. and while his explanation is rather simplistic it does hit a few key points that should make everyone very uncomfortable.
 
2012-05-06 05:25:54 PM

Elephantman: [ts3.mm.bing.net image 300x240]


You do realize that America, like all western nations, has an economy and political system that is a hybrid of both socialism and capitalism and that you could just as easily say "capitalism, making everyone equally poor since 1917" and make the same amount of sense?

You didn't know that? Oh, dear. Well, never mind. Carry on then.
 
2012-05-06 05:26:08 PM

LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)


It's clear that the tax rate on affluent, cosmopolitan folks who can travel on a whim should be reduced to 0%. Only by levying exorbitant sales taxes on folks too poor to relocate can we hope to finance our pointless foreign aggression and bail-out banks.
 
2012-05-06 05:26:36 PM

LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)


If it's so well-documented, you wouldn't be so lazy.
 
2012-05-06 05:27:29 PM

MeinRS6: And you would lose that wager. I recall you posting your job and there is no way that you paid more in taxes than I did, unless you also won the lottery this year. But hey, it's the interweb. You can pretend whatever you like


Fine. You made the accusation. post a photograph of your W-2 with your Fark handle next to it.

And what is my job, as you understand it?
 
Heb
2012-05-06 05:27:33 PM

Elephantman:


It's very strange the way "socialism" is now used in the US. It seems to have just replaced the vacuum that the "communism" bogeyman held, but at least communism was usually used accurately. Socialism seems to be a catch-all for "not as right-wing as me".
 
2012-05-06 05:27:46 PM

Elephantman: [ts3.mm.bing.net image 300x240]


Odd how this is a photo from the Depression Era when the Great Depression was created by rampant, un-regulated, laissez-faire, market-economy capitalism. Funny thing about that.
 
2012-05-06 05:28:33 PM

Jarhead_h: I could go on, but why bother, you're just going to respond with the word "derp" as though that were an actual argument.


Your first mistake is assuming the fantasy land described in your scenario isn't just a less efficient way to type "derp."
 
2012-05-06 05:28:51 PM

Heb: Elephantman:

It's very strange the way "socialism" is now used in the US. It seems to have just replaced the vacuum that the "communism" bogeyman held, but at least communism was usually used accurately. Socialism seems to be a catch-all for "not as right-wing as me".


current day Republicans use the word 'socialism' in much the same way as members of the spanish inqusition used the word 'heretic'.
 
2012-05-06 05:29:14 PM

quatchi: You do realize that America, like all western nations, has an economy and political system that is a hybrid of both socialism and capitalism and that you could just as easily say "capitalism, making everyone equally poor since 1917" and make the same amount of sense?


You can say it's a hybrid, but that might create an impression that the two parts are equally mixed. If our society is some sort of "capitalist-socialist" hybrid, capitalism is the dominant component.
 
2012-05-06 05:29:19 PM

Weaver95: Styro Foam: Weaver95: Styro Foam: Oh man, this and the election in Greece are going to have huge ramifications for Europe. Maybe they'll reject austerity and bring the financial you of cards down. I can only hope.

if europe implodes, that'll screw over the US (and eventually China). this would not be good for any of us.

Yes, it would be terrible, but it might be the catalyst for some big changes the world needs. I really shouldn't be so optimistic about it since I live in the US. If the system collapses here I'm screwed.

when countries go broke all sudden like, they tend to get stabby. then then start invading other countries and stealing their stuff.

I'd really like to avoid another world war. can't we all just agree that this whole thing is the fault of goldman-sachs and put those greedy f*ckers on trial?


No one's going to do anything about the banksters unless things fall apart. That's what I'm talking about. People won't take action until their lives are actually threatened. It's cliche but as long as American Idol stays on the air no one will do anything.
 
2012-05-06 05:31:24 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Jarhead_h: I could go on, but why bother, you're just going to respond with the word "derp" as though that were an actual argument.

Your first mistake is assuming the fantasy land described in your scenario isn't just a less efficient way to type "derp."


um...he's not entirely wrong. i'm not sure what point Jarhead_h was trying to make...but the US dollar and the euro are both fiat currency. their value isn't tied to any objective standard. which has both good and bad aspects to it.
 
2012-05-06 05:33:43 PM
Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy.

thatsglitchy.com

/keep rehashing those old talkin' points tho!
//brainwashing amurikans ftw!!!
 
2012-05-06 05:35:17 PM

FlashHarry: Serious Black: No shiat. Everybody loves step one. Nobody likes step two. They rush right to step three: profit.

yup.

except we did complete step two in the 50s and 60s, when we taxed the shiat out of everyone. and what happened? america's standard of living rose exponentially.


In 1955 corporate taxes were 30% of the federal budget. In 2010 they were 9%. Our biggest corporations pay hardly anything in taxes. We need to fix that.
 
2012-05-06 05:35:35 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran


Here is one of the relevant sections of the Federal Reserve Act: http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section5.htm

To see who the member banks are, you can look under a particular district, e.g., http://www.richmondfed.org/banking/federal_reserve_membership/state_me mber_banks/index.cfm

Note that the stock pays a fixed dividend, with any excess going to the U.S. Treasury. Still I think it is fair to say that the Fed is privately owned, but with some special restrictions having been placed on it by the government because it was created by a government charter.

Does this help?
 
2012-05-06 05:35:47 PM

MeinRS6: cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: If you want to raise more tax you need to a) have a prosperous private sector to tax and b) not kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country

Which people? And why didn't that happen to the US when it was at 75% in 1981?

Do you have studies to cite?

Arguing taxes and only quoting rates demonstrates ignorance of the tax code as a whole.

I would wager that you know very little about the current tax code(because you don't pay much, if anything) and even far less about the tax code and regs from 25-50yrs ago. Maybe you should look into that instead of thinking that people were actually paying 80-90% income taxes.




cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2012-05-06 05:36:18 PM

Overfiend: You mean taxing earnings at 75% over 1 million dollars is not insane to you?


Eisenhower taxed people at 90%.
 
2012-05-06 05:36:22 PM

Weaver95: um...he's not entirely wrong. i'm not sure what point Jarhead_h was trying to make...but the US dollar and the euro are both fiat currency. their value isn't tied to any objective standard. which has both good and bad aspects to it means it's essentially just debt that is backed by nothing more than your great great great grand kids sweat equity.

Protip. If you're 16 trillion in hock and you're still writing checks, those are called "IOUs".
 
2012-05-06 05:36:57 PM

wildhalcyon: .

In 1955 corporate taxes were 30% of the federal budget. In 2010 they were 9%. Our biggest corporations pay hardly anything in taxes. We need to fix that.


And yet, my conservative friends on facebook continue to repeat the lie that the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world.
 
2012-05-06 05:37:19 PM

moran: Note that the stock pays a fixed dividend, with any excess going to the U.S. Treasury. Still I think it is fair to say that the Fed is privately owned


So what you're actually saying is that it's publicly owned with a fixed dividend going to its member banks, and controlled by a federally-appointed official whose salary is fixed and paid for by the US government
 
2012-05-06 05:37:54 PM

Weaver95: um...he's not entirely wrong. i'm not sure what point Jarhead_h was trying to make...but the US dollar and the euro are both fiat currency. their value isn't tied to any objective standard. which has both good and bad aspects to it.


I really wouldn't call gold or silver an objective standard. It's just as arbitrary as fiat currency. The only difference is we have a history of rules associated with it. Proper regulation of fiat currency would be just as effective.
 
2012-05-06 05:37:54 PM

cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)

If it's so well-documented, you wouldn't be so lazy.


Reading comprehension fail

1) US citizens giving up their citizenship in record numbers (new window)

2) Google "tax exiles". There are lots of articles like this one (new window)
 
2012-05-06 05:38:41 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: moran: The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government.

Why does it get a cool ".gov" website?

Link

Can I get a .gov address for my inane Ugly Betty fan fiction website?


I suppose it has something to do with having been created by an act of government. But do you know what "owned" means?
 
2012-05-06 05:38:54 PM

bunner: Protip. If you're 16 trillion in hock and you're still writing checks, those are called "IOUs"


Uh, no.

You have zero idea how T-Bills and bond issues work.
 
2012-05-06 05:40:14 PM

moran: I suppose it has something to do with having been created by an act of government. But do you know what "owned" means?


I think if you keep arguing that the FED is a private institution, you will discover the definition of "owned" soon enough.
 
2012-05-06 05:41:44 PM

LordBollocks: cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)

If it's so well-documented, you wouldn't be so lazy.

Reading comprehension fail

1) US citizens giving up their citizenship in record numbers (new window)

2) Google "tax exiles". There are lots of articles like this one (new window)


Not that, you idiot.

I'm talking about evidence that French people would leave if the marginal rate on income over 1 million Euros was at 75%.
 
2012-05-06 05:42:07 PM

mikemoto: Sarkozy may have had his faults and flaws but Hollande is a total retard. His plans are for a 75% top tax rate and basically to ignore already negotiated treaties. But because he is a leftist, 90% of fark is now doubt fapping to the fact that he was elected


I support Hollande as a conservative in Spain because the double right alliance between France and Germany is killing us right now. Hollande has a more European vision and realises that the German fear of any inflation is absolutely ridiculous and the continent truly needs an active ECB to make sure they have markets to sell their shiat to. Basically the Eurozone really needs an informed debate about ideas for the union, not just lock-step behind the Germans.
 
2012-05-06 05:42:28 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: moran: I suppose it has something to do with having been created by an act of government. But do you know what "owned" means?

I think if you keep arguing that the FED is a private institution, you will discover the definition of "owned" soon enough.


I don't always use the Funny button on Fark, but when I do, I have soda in my nose.
 
2012-05-06 05:42:48 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: cman: Out of all people they had, they elected a farking Norman? WTF is wrong with you people?

Hey at least this time they didn't just burn the city and announce their over-lordship. The really important question here is whether the new guy's wife is hot.

/I'm betting that's a big no


Oddly, Francois Hollande's wife (well, "domestic partner") was Segolene Royal - the Socialist candidate in 2007, who was embarrassingly defeated in the first round by Sarkozy and Jean-Marie Le Pen. They did split up soon after the election, due to Hollande's affair with a journalist.
 
2012-05-06 05:42:52 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: um...he's not entirely wrong. i'm not sure what point Jarhead_h was trying to make...but the US dollar and the euro are both fiat currency. their value isn't tied to any objective standard. which has both good and bad aspects to it.

I really wouldn't call gold or silver an objective standard. It's just as arbitrary as fiat currency. The only difference is we have a history of rules associated with it. Proper regulation of fiat currency would be just as effective.


I'd have to go look it up to be sure, but as I recall gold and silver backed currencies are more stable over a given time period. the problem is that sometimes they can be TOO stable. not to mention that hard currency (i.e. non-fiat currency) doesn't lend itself well to complex financial instruments that most of the modern world depends on to function.

i'm not saying fiat money is better than hard currency...but both types of money have their strengths and weaknesses.

anyways - the argument over fiat vs hard currency is pointless digression. the issue that got all of us into trouble wasn't the type of money we all use, it's the fact that we have some very bad actors out there who gamed the system for their own personal benefit then when it came time to pay up they stuck the rest of us with the check.
 
2012-05-06 05:43:54 PM
The Federal Reserve Banks have an intermediate legal status, with some features of private corporations and some features of public federal agencies. The United States has an interest in the Federal Reserve Banks as tax-exempt federally-created instrumentalities whose profits belong to the federal government, but this interest is not proprietary.[93] In Lewis v. United States,[94] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that: "The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." The opinion went on to say, however, that: "The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes." Another relevant decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City,[93] in which the distinction is made between Federal Reserve Banks, which are federally-created instrumentalities, and the Board of Governors, which is a federal agency.
 
2012-05-06 05:44:29 PM

cameroncrazy1984: The_Gallant_Gallstone: moran: The Fed is owned by its member banks, not the government.

Why does it get a cool ".gov" website?

Link

Can I get a .gov address for my inane Ugly Betty fan fiction website?

I'm also wondering why a private bank is willing to give up all of its profits to the US Government. That seems odd to me.


All of its profits, after the dividends that go to the member banks, you mean. I suppose it's willing because those were the terms of the Federal Reserve Act that created it. Also notice that I'm just saying that it's privately owned, not "a private bank".

As long as we're wondering about things, I'm wondering how I can receive a dividend from capital stock that I don't own.
 
2012-05-06 05:45:29 PM

bunner: The Federal Reserve Banks have an intermediate legal status, with some features of private corporations and some features of public federal agencies


Here's a hint for you: because an agency has private member banks does not make an agency "owned" by private banks.

Now you've learned something.
 
2012-05-06 05:46:36 PM

moran: All of its profits, after the dividends that go to the member banks, you mean. I suppose it's willing because those were the terms of the Federal Reserve Act that created it. Also notice that I'm just saying that it's privately owned, not "a private bank"


By what evidence does getting a fixed dividend from the Federal Reserve but no control constitute "ownership"?
 
2012-05-06 05:49:20 PM

cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)

If it's so well-documented, you wouldn't be so lazy.

Reading comprehension fail

1) US citizens giving up their citizenship in record numbers (new window)

2) Google "tax exiles". There are lots of articles like this one (new window)

Not that, you idiot.

I'm talking about evidence that French people would leave if the marginal rate on income over 1 million Euros was at 75%.


Why don't you post your evidence that French people are somehow dumber than the rest of the world and will simply fork over?

And resorting to name calling merely shows you have run out of ideas. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
2012-05-06 05:50:10 PM

El Pachuco: Vindibudd: El Pachuco: Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.

Especially the ones that had nothing to do with that success.

And what did you do to deserve to drive on my paved roads?


How do you know they aren't mine?
 
Heb
2012-05-06 05:50:33 PM

LordBollocks: cameroncrazy1984: LordBollocks: People becoming tax exiles is a well documented phenomenon. Maybe it doesn't happen in the US so much because unlike the rest of the world you tax your citizens even when they are working overseas. See the article yesterday about people giving up their US citizenship (too lazy to find the link)

If it's so well-documented, you wouldn't be so lazy.

Reading comprehension fail

1) US citizens giving up their citizenship in record numbers (new window)

2) Google "tax exiles". There are lots of articles like this one (new window)


You can of course make it less attractive for tax exiles. Not sure the suggestion that acquiescing to their ruthlessly unpatriotic selfishness is a route any sensible government should take. Rather if they want to go, let them go, but introduce further consequences to their actions.
 
2012-05-06 05:50:35 PM

LordBollocks: Why don't you post your evidence that French people are somehow dumber than the rest of the world and will simply fork over


I'm not the one who made the bare assertion that French people would leave.

Oh, who am I kidding, I should have known that you wouldn't be able to prove your whackjob theories.
 
2012-05-06 05:50:55 PM

Weaver95: anyways - the argument over fiat vs hard currency is pointless digression. the issue that got all of us into trouble wasn't the type of money we all use, it's the fact that we have some very bad actors out there who gamed the system for their own personal benefit then when it came time to pay up they stuck the rest of us with the check.


No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.
 
2012-05-06 05:51:39 PM

Vindibudd: El Pachuco: Vindibudd: El Pachuco: Socialism - the wacky idea that everyone should benefit from an improving economy.

No wonder it'll never work.

Especially the ones that had nothing to do with that success.

And what did you do to deserve to drive on my paved roads?

How do you know they aren't mine?


Isn't that the beauty of it? Everyone contributes, everyone benefits.
 
2012-05-06 05:52:36 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars


Excellent comment.
 
2012-05-06 05:53:16 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran: Note that the stock pays a fixed dividend, with any excess going to the U.S. Treasury. Still I think it is fair to say that the Fed is privately owned

So what you're actually saying is that it's publicly owned with a fixed dividend going to its member banks, and controlled by a federally-appointed official whose salary is fixed and paid for by the US government


That's close to what I'm saying, except for the "publicly owned" part. It's a lot like the member banks own preferred stock (i.e., with fixed dividends) in the Fed, and the U.S. Treasury owns common stock. Except I don't think the government ponied up any cash in the first place, so I'm not sure it's accurate to call the government a shareholder in the Fed. In any case, surely you must concede that the Fed has issued capital stock to its member banks?

Also notice that I'm not saying that the U.S. government does not control the Fed. Of course it does. But ownership and control are different things.
 
2012-05-06 05:57:29 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: moran: I suppose it has something to do with having been created by an act of government. But do you know what "owned" means?

I think if you keep arguing that the FED is a private institution, you will discover the definition of "owned" soon enough.


Actually I am arguing that it is privately owned, not "a private institution." But still a funny comment.
 
2012-05-06 05:57:38 PM

moran: Also notice that I'm not saying that the U.S. government does not control the Fed. Of course it does. But ownership and control are different things


In what respect, Charlie?

I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing that member banks who get a fixed dividend are in any way owners of the federal reserve. Having a stake in a company does not make you an owner. It makes you a stakeholder.
 
2012-05-06 05:58:05 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: anyways - the argument over fiat vs hard currency is pointless digression. the issue that got all of us into trouble wasn't the type of money we all use, it's the fact that we have some very bad actors out there who gamed the system for their own personal benefit then when it came time to pay up they stuck the rest of us with the check.

No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.


yup. if we'd been using gold back dollars they would have changed up the scams a bit and we'd STILL be several trillion in the hole. well, several trillion coverted to whatever number you'd use to convert fiat money to the gold standard currency rate.

that's one of the things that bothers me about our current situation...we KNOW we've got bad actors mucking up the system. but we won't conduct an investigation, nor will we revise our regulatory status. we spend more going after legal cannabis distributors than we do investigating the banks who robbed THE ENTIRE WORLD of several trillion dollars.
 
2012-05-06 05:59:26 PM
OMG SOCIALISM IS SPREADING
INVADE EUROPE
 
2012-05-06 05:59:48 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: And you would lose that wager. I recall you posting your job and there is no way that you paid more in taxes than I did, unless you also won the lottery this year. But hey, it's the interweb. You can pretend whatever you like

Fine. You made the accusation. post a photograph of your W-2 with your Fark handle next to it.

And what is my job, as you understand it?


IIRC, you're a network admin or something. I could be thinking of someone else.

And that's cute that the only form you know for income is a W-2. And that's probably all you'll ever know. You make a fine intern though.

And who in their right mind would post a pic of any of their taxes online?
 
2012-05-06 06:01:41 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: No argument from me.
I just balk at anyone who says the gold standard would fix or have prevented all of the problems we're now having. It has some inborn limitation that would have prevented excess, but it's nothing fiat currency can't do with a few well-established and enforced rules. Like you said, it's not what dollars we used, but what we let people do with their dollars.


oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.
 
2012-05-06 06:03:23 PM
I am not by any means a socialist, but if it results in a turn away from the 'hit the brakes on a train that already reached the gorge bottom' stupidity of austerity measure politics then it will be a good thing.
 
2012-05-06 06:04:43 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran: All of its profits, after the dividends that go to the member banks, you mean. I suppose it's willing because those were the terms of the Federal Reserve Act that created it. Also notice that I'm just saying that it's privately owned, not "a private bank"

By what evidence does getting a fixed dividend from the Federal Reserve but no control constitute "ownership"?


I don't know what you mean by "evidence" in this context, but I think that holding capital stock in an entity constitutes ownership. Otherwise, how do you explain the dividends? Are they an entitlement? If so, why do you only get them after you buy in to the Fed?
 
2012-05-06 06:04:49 PM

Heb: You can of course make it less attractive for tax exiles. Not sure the suggestion that acquiescing to their ruthlessly unpatriotic selfishness is a route any sensible government should take. Rather if they want to go, let them go, but introduce further consequences to their actions.


I thought that was the purpose of taxing US citizens while abroad. It's a strong disincentive to leave.

No one else in the world does it though as far as I am aware.
 
2012-05-06 06:05:27 PM
www.breederretriever.com

RIP FRENCHIES
 
2012-05-06 06:06:54 PM

willyfreddy: Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy,

until the foreigners come and take all the jobs.

FTFY. As someone who spent quite a bit of time in Europe as a kid, if I had a Deutschmark for every time I saw, "Auslander Raus" spraypainted on something, I wouldn't need to work anymore.



Time to add an F to "PIIGS." Frau Merkel will have fun with this.

But they could have looked to see how well it worked out for the Spanish in 2005.
 
2012-05-06 06:09:13 PM

LordBollocks: I thought that was the purpose of taxing US citizens while abroad. It's a strong disincentive to leave.

No one else in the world does it though as far as I am aware.


I suspect the days of US power inviolate are coming to a close. we've made too many mistakes over the past 40 years, spent too much money, fought too many wars. we're ripping ourselves apart with domestic feuds, our infrastructure is crumbling and we've got endemic corruption at all levels of government.

I'll consider us lucky if we avoid breaking up into 8 or 9 seperate geo-political states. even if we DO manage to hold it together over the next century, we're going to have to take a step back from being the main leader on the world stage.
 
2012-05-06 06:11:28 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran: Also notice that I'm not saying that the U.S. government does not control the Fed. Of course it does. But ownership and control are different things

In what respect, Charlie?

I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing that member banks who get a fixed dividend are in any way owners of the federal reserve. Having a stake in a company does not make you an owner. It makes you a stakeholder.


Well, a CEO can have control over a company without owning any of it, and a non-voting stockholder can have an ownership interest in a company without any control over it. So that would be one respect. But if you want to use the word "own" to mean "own and control" then I can't stop you. Do you have a word that means to you what "own" means to me? This might make communication easier in the future.
 
2012-05-06 06:12:08 PM

hurdboy: Time to add an F to "PIIGS." Frau Merkel will have fun with this.


France isn't that bad off is it?
 
2012-05-06 06:14:58 PM

MeinRS6: IIRC, you're a network admin or something. I could be thinking of someone else.

And that's cute that the only form you know for income is a W-2. And that's probably all you'll ever know. You make a fine intern though.

And who in their right mind would post a pic of any of their taxes online


I guess you just don't have the cojones to back up your big talk. Fine. Post your 1099, then.

I've got both.

It's alright, I don't need to see your W-2 to know how much a guy who works at Wendy's makes. It's because of us socialists that you make the minimum wage that you do.
 
2012-05-06 06:16:44 PM

Weaver95: oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.


Also, no argument.
 
2012-05-06 06:18:34 PM

LordBollocks: A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.


A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.
 
2012-05-06 06:18:48 PM
He wants to tax the rich 75%. It's going to be funny watching a mass exodus of French businesses.
 
2012-05-06 06:20:14 PM

Frank N Stein: He wants to tax the rich 75%. It's going to be funny watching a mass exodus of French businesses.


Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?
 
2012-05-06 06:21:38 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: He wants to tax the rich 75%. It's going to be funny watching a mass exodus of French businesses.

Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?


What is the current tax rate there?
 
2012-05-06 06:21:39 PM

Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.


I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.
 
2012-05-06 06:22:35 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.

Also, no argument.


another weird thing? the Occupy movement (among others) wants to reinstate Glass-Steagal. quite a lot of very smart people who's job it is to study this exact issue agree that we really should put something very much like Glass-Steagal back into place. But wall street (and the Republicans, to be specific) won't do agree to it. many of our systemic issues started shortly after the repeal of Glass-Steagal. things worked very well when Glass-Steagal was in place....plenty of experts thing Glass-Steagal should be put back into place....but we're not even going to discuss the issue. To my knowledge, a replacement to Glass-Stegal isn't even in the legislative queue, nor will it be so in the future.

why? well...I think I know the answer to that one...but I'll throw it out to the masses to chew on for a bit and see what reponse I get.
 
2012-05-06 06:23:05 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?


Cuba.
 
2012-05-06 06:23:58 PM

Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.


Here's a guy who doesn't understand marginal tax rates.
 
2012-05-06 06:24:11 PM
ts1.mm.bing.net
 
2012-05-06 06:24:42 PM

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.


[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.
 
2012-05-06 06:25:46 PM

Frank N Stein: I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.


If money were earned in a vacuum, you might be right. But since that greedy fark isn't willing to pay for the services, protections, and other citizens that make his millions possible, he doesn't deserve them.
 
2012-05-06 06:27:27 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.


You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world
 
2012-05-06 06:27:52 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran: Also notice that I'm not saying that the U.S. government does not control the Fed. Of course it does. But ownership and control are different things

In what respect, Charlie?

I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing that member banks who get a fixed dividend are in any way owners of the federal reserve. Having a stake in a company does not make you an owner. It makes you a stakeholder.


Here is a court decision that supports my view: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/680/680.F2d.1239.80-5905.html . Of course I'm not saying that you have to agree with the courts about everything.

If you don't want to read it all, you can search for the word "owned" (skipping the first one, which refers to a vehicle.)
 
2012-05-06 06:28:32 PM

Frank N Stein: I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.


so do you think we should put Glass-Steagal back into place?
 
2012-05-06 06:29:25 PM

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.

You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world


What's the top marginal tax rate in Cuba?
 
2012-05-06 06:29:32 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: IIRC, you're a network admin or something. I could be thinking of someone else.

And that's cute that the only form you know for income is a W-2. And that's probably all you'll ever know. You make a fine intern though.

And who in their right mind would post a pic of any of their taxes online

I guess you just don't have the cojones to back up your big talk. Fine. Post your 1099, then.

I've got both.

It's alright, I don't need to see your W-2 to know how much a guy who works at Wendy's makes. It's because of us socialists that you make the minimum wage that you do.


So I take it that you are an admin and you have no idea what I do. Got it.

And no, me not posting my taxes online doesn't mean that admins in their 20s pay more in taxes than I do. But you keep on thinking that if you like. It makes no difference to me.

Back to the point, you don't know how the wealthy sheltered their income from the rates that you were quoting earlier. That demonstrates your ignorance of the tax code during those decades. One could easily argue that most are paying more, with closed loopholes, despite the rates being lower. I'm not in the mood to teach the tax code to you, but you get the point.
 
2012-05-06 06:30:42 PM

moran: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/680/680.F2d.1239.80-5905.htm l


That is in reference to the 12 regional Federal Reserve banks, not the Federal Reserve as a whole.
 
2012-05-06 06:30:51 PM

willyfreddy: Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy.

[thatsglitchy.com image 400x275]

/keep rehashing those old talkin' points tho!
//brainwashing amurikans ftw!!!


That's amusing. Much of my family is Danish and some Portugese. They don't like socialism at all.
 
2012-05-06 06:32:18 PM

MeinRS6: So I take it that you are an admin and you have no idea what I do. Got it.

And no, me not posting my taxes online doesn't mean that admins in their 20s pay more in taxes than I do. But you keep on thinking that if you like. It makes no difference to me.


I find it very interesting that you can make claims that you pay more taxes than I do, but don't want to back those claims up. Very interesting.

MeinRS6: Back to the point, you don't know how the wealthy sheltered their income from the rates that you were quoting earlier. That demonstrates your ignorance of the tax code during those decades. One could easily argue that most are paying more, with closed loopholes, despite the rates being lower. I'm not in the mood to teach the tax code to you, but you get the point


If you can so easily argue that the wealthy are paying more in taxes with a 35% top marginal rate than they were with a 70% or 90% marginal rate, please do cite me a source on that.
 
2012-05-06 06:32:33 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

Here's a guy who doesn't understand marginal tax rates.


Is it bad that I read that in John Madden's voice?
 
2012-05-06 06:33:50 PM

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.

You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world


Tax rates were the least of their worries my friend.
 
2012-05-06 06:33:58 PM

dahmers love zombie: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

Here's a guy who doesn't understand marginal tax rates.

Is it bad that I read that in John Madden's voice?


Nope, because that's EXACTLY how I meant it.
 
2012-05-06 06:34:22 PM

MeinRS6: jibberish


You are by far one of the dumbest, most insecure people to post on this site. Please stop posting - I'm pretty sure it's giving the rest of us ass cancer.
 
2012-05-06 06:34:51 PM

MeinRS6: One could easily argue that most are paying more, with closed loopholes, despite the rates being lower.


One could also easily argue that one was a little teapot, short and stout. One could demonstrate this by bending one arm to make the "handle", and the other arm into the "spout". This would not, in fact, make it the truth.
 
2012-05-06 06:35:22 PM

Weaver95: I wonder how the GOP will react to this news? do you think they'll even notice?


Nah. Not at all.

Link

Care for some Freedom Fries?
 
2012-05-06 06:35:27 PM

Mrtraveler01: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.

You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world

Tax rates were the least of their worries my friend.


Nuh-uh. They left because of tax rates. Period.
 
2012-05-06 06:35:48 PM

Weaver95: Sergeant Grumbles: Weaver95: oh, and for the record - we DID have well established and enforced rules...but Clinton (at Republican insistence) repealed those rules. within two years, we started to see signs of severe looting and corruption.

Also, no argument.

another weird thing? the Occupy movement (among others) wants to reinstate Glass-Steagal. quite a lot of very smart people who's job it is to study this exact issue agree that we really should put something very much like Glass-Steagal back into place. But wall street (and the Republicans, to be specific) won't do agree to it. many of our systemic issues started shortly after the repeal of Glass-Steagal. things worked very well when Glass-Steagal was in place....plenty of experts thing Glass-Steagal should be put back into place....but we're not even going to discuss the issue. To my knowledge, a replacement to Glass-Stegal isn't even in the legislative queue, nor will it be so in the future.

why? well...I think I know the answer to that one...but I'll throw it out to the masses to chew on for a bit and see what reponse I get.


Cause the banks like making the world's largest economy into a giant casino.
 
2012-05-06 06:36:21 PM

dahmers love zombie: MeinRS6: One could easily argue that most are paying more, with closed loopholes, despite the rates being lower.

One could also easily argue that one was a little teapot, short and stout. One could demonstrate this by bending one arm to make the "handle", and the other arm into the "spout". This would not, in fact, make it the truth.


Alright, now that is hilarious.
 
2012-05-06 06:36:52 PM

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.

You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world


Hey fark up, you do realize there is an economic embargo by the largest economy in the region against them, right?
 
2012-05-06 06:37:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: What's the top marginal tax rate in Cuba?


Oh, apparently I have to withdraw my earlier post. I cannot find any clear rules regarding taxation/economy of Cuba, and just based my opinion off the exodus of Cuban businessmen after the revolution.

Kinda wish I didn't sound dickish in my previous statement

Weaver95: Frank N Stein: I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

so do you think we should put Glass-Steagal back into place?


I do
 
2012-05-06 06:38:30 PM
Also, I don't know if anyone is discussing the Greek election in here. But all I have to say is:

Democracy is all fun and games until someone elects a Nazi.
 
2012-05-06 06:38:43 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Ppl stop acting like americans dont know what a socialist is or that Obama isnt. If it wasnt for the checks and balances of the US govt the US would be in a complete socialist state right now. You know if Obama could literally do whatever he wanted w/o approval of others. That being said idgaf bc now that we know the republican candidate, we are completely farked.
/not even voting
//americans are dumb & ignorant for not getting Ron Paul in


WHHHARRRRRRRGARRRRBLLLLLLLLLLLL
 
2012-05-06 06:39:14 PM
Maybe we'll finally see that Eurozone crash.

The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried. A few countries merely "scaled back" their unsustainable, welfare-state-driven budget deficits; none eliminated them. Those "severe" Greek budget cuts? They reduced the budget deficit from from 9% to 7.5% of GDP. So they didn't even make Greece stop digging, they just forced them to dig slightly slower...
 
2012-05-06 06:39:42 PM

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Hes been telling us for 30yrs that the federal reserve was gonna fark us and that the constitution doesnt give a private company the right to print money.
/ no one listened
// now the whole US economy is farked



Ssshhhh, that doesn't matter. He's all old and sh*t and I read on the internet that he wants to kill all the kneegrahs and that guy on Cake Wars could totally kick his ass.
 
2012-05-06 06:39:54 PM

Frank N Stein: Also, I don't know if anyone is discussing the Greek election in here. But all I have to say is:

Democracy is all fun and games until someone elects a Nazi.


Greece is farked.
 
2012-05-06 06:41:36 PM

LawrencePerson: Maybe we'll finally see that Eurozone crash.


I hope you're not rooting for that. Because it will fark us over as well.

/BTW: Your blog sucks
 
2012-05-06 06:42:21 PM

LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried


You realize that's the same argument that Communists use, right?
 
2012-05-06 06:42:33 PM

LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried.


It's about time someone trotted out this excuse.
 
2012-05-06 06:42:54 PM

BeSerious: WHHHARRRRRRRGARRRRBLLLLLLLLLLLL


Needs more vowels.
 
2012-05-06 06:44:17 PM

cameroncrazy1984: LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried

You realize that's the same argument that Communists use, right?


Proving once and for all that the political spectrum is circular.
 
2012-05-06 06:45:20 PM

dahmers love zombie: So, French Farkers (or people who simply know more about politics than I do): Did Marine LePen's supporters not vote, or weren't they enough, or what? They sure as hell wouldn't have supported Hollande, right?


I don't think she qualified for the second round of elections. It seems like Sarkozy and Hollande were the only two who reached the vote cut off to qualify, and Le Pen didn't endorse Sarkozy so I assume the NF voters either just stayed home, or weren't a big enough block to make a difference for Sarkozy.

Having said that, the Socialists winning in France isn't a surprise. IIRC, the Socialist party was pretty dominant politically before the 90s when Chirac and the Neo-Liberals pushed them out.
 
2012-05-06 06:45:24 PM

Serious Black: cameroncrazy1984: LawrencePerson: The problem with "austerity" in Europe isn't that it's failed, it's that it hasn't even been tried

You realize that's the same argument that Communists use, right?

Proving once and for all that the political spectrum is circular.


I feel more dumb after reading his blog.
 
2012-05-06 06:46:44 PM

cameroncrazy1984: moran: http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/680/680.F2d.1239.80-5905.htm l

That is in reference to the 12 regional Federal Reserve banks, not the Federal Reserve as a whole.


True, and the regional banks are where the money is in the Federal reserve system. When someone says "the Fed is privately owned" I interpret that to mean that the Federal Reserve Banks are privately owned. Of course the Board of Governors isn't privately owned; it's not owned by anyone. It's just a board. If you were talking about who owns the chairs in the meeting room, then I apologize for the mix-up.
 
2012-05-06 06:48:26 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: So I take it that you are an admin and you have no idea what I do. Got it.

And no, me not posting my taxes online doesn't mean that admins in their 20s pay more in taxes than I do. But you keep on thinking that if you like. It makes no difference to me.

I find it very interesting that you can make claims that you pay more taxes than I do, but don't want to back those claims up. Very interesting.


Actually, if you scroll back up and look, it was you - not me - that made such a claim. So I guess you will be posting up your W-2 any second now. If you don't, then I'll be forced to post meaningless comments followed by "Very interesting".


If you can so easily argue that the wealthy are paying more in taxes with a 35% top marginal rate than they were with a 70% or 90% marginal rate, please do cite me a source on that.

You want me to post a hypothetical tax scenario for you, using decades old tax law, then run that same scenario using current law? You'd have to pay me for that type of lesson, boy. Besides, no matter what I posted, you would just say "that's not true" due to your ignorance of tax code and regs. How would you even know the difference? It would be similar to an engineer telling you the forces that had to be dealt with when building a bridge. You would have no way of knowing if his calculations were correct or not.

Consider this, do you think that there are more tax laws and regs now than there were 50yrs ago? Do you think that all of the new stuff that was passed was to capture less revenue for the Treasury? With a few sections in 1986, passive income was wiped out. That's one example of many. Once you start looking at the sections of the code on international taxes, then things really pick up compared to where they used to be. The list goes on and on. Rates do not tell the complete story by any stretch of the imagination.
 
2012-05-06 06:49:47 PM

DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.


It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.
 
2012-05-06 06:52:46 PM

i has an internet: So, this is probably a positive development for France.


Hopefully.

Being Germany's biatch wasn't helping I don't think.
 
2012-05-06 06:55:56 PM

dahmers love zombie: One could also easily argue that one was a little teapot, short and stout. One could demonstrate this by bending one arm to make the "handle", and the other arm into the "spout". This would not, in fact, make it the truth.


A+ post. Will LOL again!
 
2012-05-06 06:57:50 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: Question: What does an actual Socialist leader want as reform? And what changes HAD he already made in France?

I'm American so Socialist is, literally, a bad word here. But I'm curious about countries where it is an actual political platform.


Practically every government in Europe from the end of WWII to, say, 1995-8 (excepting Spain under Franco, Greece under the US-backed Junta and of course Eastern Europe which was a bunch of imperial puppet regimes)was either run by or had significant input from a Socialist party. So if you want to know how a socialist party does things, just look at Germany, or the Norwegian countries, or England under Labor, or France did things during that period and you'll find out.

Politics is different in every country, so some countries had better policies than others (for instance, socialist, conservative, or personality driven, Italian politics is invariably a swamp). The basic idea behind form of Socialism though is a middle-road between Unfettered Capitalism and Revolutionary Communism. The focus tends to be on ensuring economic relationships are equitable, and that the economy serves society instead of the other way around. Social programs like universal health care or universal health insurance, free K to College Education, public housing and support for the poor, and a dedicated defense of unions in the workplace tend to be a big part of their agenda.
 
2012-05-06 06:58:45 PM
The Jokes will Write themselves.
 
2012-05-06 07:00:32 PM
Politics is the craft of deciding how today's elk kill is divvied up without getting a spear in your ass. Unfortunately, we tend to vote for the douchebag who has the most engaging sound bites concerning elk.

At some point, a bunch of we the people pointed at the hired hands we sent off to write down what we wanted them to do and gave them cushy civil service gigs and said "They're the government". To which they replied "No sh*t? THANKS! Oh, and about all this 'we' jazz..." It pretty much took a huge dump soon thereafter.

Then the sh*t started stacking up to the ceiling and so, every four years or so, we send in another guy with a mop who says he knows about elk and cleaning up messes and none of us get any elk meat and they emerge four to eight years later with a pristine mop. There is an old saw about the definition of insanity.

Now it's just like everything else around here. He who spends the most money wins and he who has none to spend can hold his hand on his ass and hope for some elk scraps. Anybody who thinks that the system isn't fundamentally corrupt, broke as f*ck, dysfunctional and laden with enough hypocrisy to make Caligula vomit is, for my money, a clinical imbecile or getting fat off of promoting the lie.
 
2012-05-06 07:00:33 PM

MeinRS6: cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: So I take it that you are an admin and you have no idea what I do. Got it.

And no, me not posting my taxes online doesn't mean that admins in their 20s pay more in taxes than I do. But you keep on thinking that if you like. It makes no difference to me.

I find it very interesting that you can make claims that you pay more taxes than I do, but don't want to back those claims up. Very interesting.

Actually, if you scroll back up and look, it was you - not me - that made such a claim. So I guess you will be posting up your W-2 any second now. If you don't, then I'll be forced to post meaningless comments followed by "Very interesting".


If you can so easily argue that the wealthy are paying more in taxes with a 35% top marginal rate than they were with a 70% or 90% marginal rate, please do cite me a source on that.

You want me to post a hypothetical tax scenario for you, using decades old tax law, then run that same scenario using current law? You'd have to pay me for that type of lesson, boy. Besides, no matter what I posted, you would just say "that's not true" due to your ignorance of tax code and regs. How would you even know the difference? It would be similar to an engineer telling you the forces that had to be dealt with when building a bridge. You would have no way of knowing if his calculations were correct or not.

Consider this, do you think that there are more tax laws and regs now than there were 50yrs ago? Do you think that all of the new stuff that was passed was to capture less revenue for the Treasury? With a few sections in 1986, passive income was wiped out. That's one example of many. Once you start looking at the sections of the code on international taxes, then things really pick up compared to where they used to be. The list goes on and on. Rates do not tell the complete story by any stretch of the imagination.



So, it's come down to "Why should I have to back up my assertions?" again? Color me shocked.
 
2012-05-06 07:02:54 PM

Mrtraveler01: i has an internet: So, this is probably a positive development for France.

Hopefully.

Being Germany's biatch wasn't helping I don't think.


Indeed not. I'm not sure what Hollande will do, although he did seem to indicate at various times that he'd like to tell Germany to piss off. The 'probably' was mostly based on my estimation of Sarkozy's policy trajectory than on thorough knowledge of Hollande's future policies. Then again, "he couldn't be worse" hasn't always panned out that great, so my overall response is pretty moderated.
 
2012-05-06 07:08:32 PM

MindfulModeration: MeinRS6:
So, it's come down to "Why should I have to back up my assertions?" again? Color me shocked.


To be fair, have you ever actually tried to back up specious reasoning? He'll say anything short of the truth to justify being a parasite on American society.
 
2012-05-06 07:17:25 PM

MeinRS6: You want me to post a hypothetical tax scenario for you, using decades old tax law, then run that same scenario using current law? You'd have to pay me for that type of lesson, boy. Besides, no matter what I posted, you would just say "that's not true" due to your ignorance of tax code and regs. How would you even know the difference? It would be similar to an engineer telling you the forces that had to be dealt with when building a bridge. You would have no way of knowing if his calculations were correct or not


Sounds like you, again, don't want to back up your claim. Are you not aware that the internet exists, and a "decades-old" tax code isn't some apocryphal thing that no longer exists?

So, who's manning the fryer while you're in here not backing up your claims?
 
2012-05-06 07:18:53 PM

MindfulModeration: So, it's come down to "Why should I have to back up my assertions?" again? Color me shocked.


That's not it at all. Not everything can be quickly demonstrated by posting some link. Some things are more complicated than that. I guess I could look around and try to find old sections of the tax code online, but you wouldn't know what it meant relative to what I'm saying.

Also, I don't see you asking Cameron for a link to back up his assertion that people were actually paying 90% on their income. Is there a link to some old dupe's tax filing online that actually did that? I doubt it. And I gave a couple of examples of how the tax code has changed over the years to capture more income and different types of income as well. So the rates could go down and a person still have to pay more in taxes. If you cannot understand that concept, that's because you don't understand the tax code. It's as simple as that.
 
2012-05-06 07:21:23 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: You want me to post a hypothetical tax scenario for you, using decades old tax law, then run that same scenario using current law? You'd have to pay me for that type of lesson, boy. Besides, no matter what I posted, you would just say "that's not true" due to your ignorance of tax code and regs. How would you even know the difference? It would be similar to an engineer telling you the forces that had to be dealt with when building a bridge. You would have no way of knowing if his calculations were correct or not

Sounds like you, again, don't want to back up your claim.


Where is the picture of your W-2. You claimed that you paid more in taxes than I did.

So you talk big, but you refuse to back up your claims. Very interesting.
 
2012-05-06 07:21:40 PM

MeinRS6: That's not it at all. Not everything can be quickly demonstrated by posting some link. Some things are more complicated than that. I guess I could look around and try to find old sections of the tax code online, but you wouldn't know what it meant relative to what I'm saying


Try us. This is Fark, not Free Republic. We actually understand the tax code and marginal rates.
 
2012-05-06 07:22:00 PM
I am probably the only one who thinks, in response to French surrender jokes, that it was French fur traders who were the first white men to venture into a lot of North America. Hard to be a frightened surrender monkey if you're roughing it in a strange land inhabited by people who don't speak anything remotely like your language.

Also wasn't there a situation in Africa a few years ago where French marines evacuated a bunch of Westerners while the U.S. stood around with its hands behind its backs?
 
2012-05-06 07:22:40 PM

MeinRS6: Where is the picture of your W-2. You claimed that you paid more in taxes than I did.

So you talk big, but you refuse to back up your claims. Very interesting


I claimed I would wager that I did. I didn't say I actually did.
 
2012-05-06 07:23:40 PM
Is anyone comparing him to Hitler yet?
 
2012-05-06 07:29:51 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: That's not it at all. Not everything can be quickly demonstrated by posting some link. Some things are more complicated than that. I guess I could look around and try to find old sections of the tax code online, but you wouldn't know what it meant relative to what I'm saying

Try us. This is Fark, not Free Republic. We actually understand the tax code and marginal rates.


I love how he hasn't responded to the graphic I posted showing that the very richest people in America used to pay a 70% effective tax rate and now pay somewhere close to 30%.
 
2012-05-06 07:30:29 PM

i has an internet: DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.

It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.


I'd say the victories of right-wing parties in Europe in the mid 90s to mid 00s were a result less of a general policy shift in Euro thinking, and more a sort of "changing of the guard" combined with rising nationalist feelings brought on by the EU project and heavier immigration.

By the mid-90s, left-wing parties had dominated politics in Europe for decades. Just like with the Tories in Britain, they were seen as old, corrupt, and worn-out. At the same time, right-wing parties could both claim credit for the successful aspects of the Euro(as they'd been advocating privatizing reform for years) while continuing to hold on to the support of nationalist Euro-skeptic parties(as they had also been resisting the "United States of Europe" concept for just as long). If you look at public polls on the issue, there was no drop in support for social programs during the period. The hallmarks of Socialist policy -universal health care, strong unions, a tightly managed export sector- all remained popular, and as the GFC showed, while plenty of voters no doubt liked the sound and propaganda behind "market liberalization" in finance, none of them (even the financiers) really understood what taking anti-fraud laws off the books really meant.

I more or less see the entire process as a "natural" development. Socialist govs rule for a long time, pile up inevitable scandals, and get voted out. Con parties get voted in but, because the Euro public is still widely supportive of Socialist policies, don't really change much outside banking and the structure of the EU where they don't need public support. The fraud that pseudo-Friedmanism naturally produces starts rearing its ugly head (first ~2002 with housing bubbles in Spain and Ireland), and when it finally explodes in 2007, people begin to think they've had enough of the right-wing. Initially, the governments that presided over the GFC took the blame (outside of German and the Nordic countries which have largely come through the crisis unscathed and without austerity), but as the rightist solutions preferred by the ECB have failed, the support for these parties of the neo-liberal consensus that the EU exemplifies has been slowly falling away.

I would say that in the next decade we will likely see a left-ward shift much like the right-ward one that ushered in the century. The success of Nationalist parties tends, in my view, to be the result of specifics; in Greece the voters are rebelling against outside influence, in the Netherlands, the problem has been and remains immigration and economic dislocation, while Hungary is a melange of EU resentment, Russian resentment, Russian nostalgia, xenophobia, and concern over their intractable economic stagnation.
 
2012-05-06 07:36:00 PM

Serious Black: I love how he hasn't responded to the graphic I posted showing that the very richest people in America used to pay a 70% effective tax rate and now pay somewhere close to 30%


Because then he wouldn't get to feel superior and make like he knows something we all don't.

Facts have a way of doing that to Republicans.
 
2012-05-06 07:42:50 PM

Egalitarian: I am probably the only one who thinks, in response to French surrender jokes, that it was French fur traders who were the first white men to venture into a lot of North America. Hard to be a frightened surrender monkey if you're roughing it in a strange land inhabited by people who don't speak anything remotely like your language.

Also wasn't there a situation in Africa a few years ago where French marines evacuated a bunch of Westerners while the U.S. stood around with its hands behind its backs?


Ssshhh! Nahn wun wun! Cheese eaters! Stop screwing around with decade old propaganda talking points, you commie terr'ist!

70 odd years ago, half of western Europe was bombed into oblivion and they manned up and rebuilt it and we helped kick out the bad guys, but it didn't happen on our soil, so the world kept turning.

About 40 years ago, we were ass deep in Viet Nam, but that was just on TeeVee and not three blocks over from the corner store, so the world kept turning. Then we lost a few thousand lives and a couple of buildings and IT HAPPENED HOLY SH*T IN NEW YORK!!! And we decided that the world stopped turning then and there. And the rest of the world decided it didn't.

But we held fast and watched decade of Keystone Cops vignettes play out while hunting down the alleged perpetrators - when we weren't listening to our president tell us that "finding Bin Laden isn't important", that is - and our patriotic job creators used this rather useful distraction to empty out our coffers and f*k off to Asia with the money and we're still told that anybody who isn't hiding under their beds is a traitor. Today's terrorist alert level is brown. But that doesn't stop us from trying to pass judgment on what some other country sees as the best way to pilot their national ship of state. America. Is was this a great country, or what?
 
2012-05-06 07:43:27 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: Where is the picture of your W-2. You claimed that you paid more in taxes than I did.

So you talk big, but you refuse to back up your claims. Very interesting

I claimed I would wager that I did. I didn't say I actually did.


LOL. Nice.

That is the pedantry that you are famous for. Well done.
 
2012-05-06 07:46:54 PM

MeinRS6: cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: Where is the picture of your W-2. You claimed that you paid more in taxes than I did.

So you talk big, but you refuse to back up your claims. Very interesting

I claimed I would wager that I did. I didn't say I actually did.

LOL. Nice.

That is the pedantry that you are famous for. Well done.


Says the guy who thinks it would be "too complicated" to back up his own claims.

I think there's someone at the drive thru. You should probably go get them their burger.
 
2012-05-06 07:48:13 PM

cameroncrazy1984: We actually understand the tax code and marginal rates.


Oh, bs. I've already posted things that you don't understand and haven't responded to.

Just the simple principle that your rate could go down and with changes in the code what you have to pay could go up seems to be beyond you. It has to do with different kinds of income, where it is earned, etc. You know about your W-2 and your 1040-EZ. After that, you sound pretty much lost.
 
2012-05-06 07:51:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Says the guy who thinks it would be "too complicated" to back up his own claims.


You haven't backed up your claim that people were paying 90% income taxes either. Don't think I haven't noticed.

The published rates and what people were paying are two different things. Remember the whole Buffet "I pay less taxes than my secretary" bullshiat? Imagine what someone like Buffett could have done in the years of your precious 90% tax rates. But you can't, can you? Because you don't know anything about the tax code or regs.
 
2012-05-06 07:56:24 PM

MeinRS6: You haven't backed up your claim that people were paying 90% income taxes either. Don't think I haven't noticed


I also never said that. I said the top marginal rate was 90%

YOU are the one who said they were paying less than they are at a 35% top marginal rate and have thus far failed to prove that claim.
 
2012-05-06 07:58:22 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: You haven't backed up your claim that people were paying 90% income taxes either. Don't think I haven't noticed

I also never said that. I said the top marginal rate was 90%

YOU are the one who said they were paying less than they are at a 35% top marginal rate and have thus far failed to prove that claim.


More pedantry from you.

Ok, so what % rate are you saying that people paid? Please provide a link to support whatever number you pull out of your ass.
 
2012-05-06 08:03:07 PM

Heron: i has an internet: DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.

It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.

I'd say the victories of right-wing parties in Europe in the mid 90s to mid 00s were a result less of a general policy shift in Euro thinking, and more a sort of "changing of the guard" combined with rising nationalist feelings brought on by the EU project and heavier immigration.

By the mid-90s, left-wing parties had dominated politics in Europe for decades. Just like with the Tories in Britain, they were seen as old, corrupt, and worn-out. At the same time, right-wing parties could both claim credit for the successful aspects of the Euro(as they'd been advocating privatizing reform for years) while continuing to hold on to the support of nationalist Euro-skeptic parties(as they had also been resisting the "United States of Europe" concept for just as long). If you look at public polls on the issue, there was no drop in support for social programs during the period. The hallmarks of Socialist policy -universal health care, strong unions, a tightly managed export sector- all remained popular, and as the GFC showed, while plenty of voters no doubt liked the sound and propaganda behind "market liberalization" in finance, none of them (even the financiers) really understood what taking anti-fraud laws off the books real ...


I think this is a pretty spot-on analysis. I wasn't meaning to suggest that France (or others) had broadly gone right-wing. More what I was suggesting was that people may be a bit surprised just given recent history. I think in broad terms the result makes sense. Still, a more nuanced take on the situation is more helpful on analyzing the historical context of this election, and is much-appreciated.
 
2012-05-06 08:04:20 PM

MeinRS6: More pedantry from you.

Ok, so what % rate are you saying that people paid? Please provide a link to support whatever number you pull out of your ass


I'm not saying they paid any rate. I'm just telling you what it was. You're the one who started talking about "paid"
 
2012-05-06 08:07:14 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: More pedantry from you.

Ok, so what % rate are you saying that people paid? Please provide a link to support whatever number you pull out of your ass

I'm not saying they paid any rate. I'm just telling you what it was. You're the one who started talking about "paid"


If you have no opinion on the rate paid, then what the hell are you disagreeing with me about then?

All I did was point out that the published rates did not tell the whole story. Are you starting to realize that now? It sounds like you are.
 
2012-05-06 08:07:44 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: More pedantry from you.

Ok, so what % rate are you saying that people paid? Please provide a link to support whatever number you pull out of your ass

I'm not saying they paid any rate. I'm just telling you what it was. You're the one who started talking about "paid"


However, Serious Black did post a graphic showing that the effective rate used to be 70% and now it's somewhere around 30%. So, go look at that.
 
2012-05-06 08:08:28 PM

MeinRS6: If you have no opinion on the rate paid, then what the hell are you disagreeing with me about then


I'm not disagreeing at all. I'm simply asking you to back up your claims. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to do.
 
2012-05-06 08:08:33 PM
bunner

You are right, as your history of posting some of the most interesting and thoughtful comments here should have led me to refrain from snark. I apologize.
 
2012-05-06 08:14:41 PM
talking about 75%+ taxes... my google search foo is weak apparently. But I seem to remember my Dad being shocked that the 'guaranteed' $2.5m purse of the first Ali vs. Frazier fight, (where they beat the everliving crap out of ea. other), that Ali - after taxes, and respective cuts to manager et. al. - iirc was significantly under six figures.

While the current rates are inequitable, that's not right.

/but then again, I have a problem w/ 'superstars'/CEOs gaming exorbitant salaries out of the system - I have no problem w/ raises/bonuses, but they need to be linked and capped to the other employees' salaries. You run a company into the ground, you don't walk away with a golden parachute. And avoiding the word accountability when it pertains to their political base is not in a political party's long term best interest. Unfortunately, most politicians seem unable to think beyond the next election.
//and if you deliberately game the system and break the world economy, you should at least get 'grounded'. Come on.
 
2012-05-06 08:15:37 PM

Tired_of_the_BS: talking about 75%+ taxes... my google search foo is weak apparently. But I seem to remember my Dad being shocked that the 'guaranteed' $2.5m purse of the first Ali vs. Frazier fight, (where they beat the everliving crap out of ea. other), that Ali - after taxes, and respective cuts to manager et. al. - iirc was significantly under six figures.

While the current rates are inequitable, that's not right.


I hope you realize your problem is with the boxing system, and it has nothing to do with government, right?
 
2012-05-06 08:16:34 PM

Tired_of_the_BS: But I seem to remember my Dad being shocked that the 'guaranteed' $2.5m purse of the first Ali vs. Frazier fight, (where they beat the everliving crap out of ea. other), that Ali - after taxes, and respective cuts to manager et. al. - iirc was significantly under six figure


Maybe your google-fu is weak because your dad didn't understand how marginal tax rates work. A top rate of 75% means that it's 75% of everything over a certain amount (whatever the top bracket is)
 
2012-05-06 08:30:28 PM
LoL. No, I'm pretty certain my Dad was shocked - not because of his misunderstanding of tax code, or inequities of either the boxing system or government tax codes - but because the two of them literally destroyed each other, and their compensation was... inadequate. For a multi-million dollar purse, he could understand why a man would do that to himself/others, but for what they took home... it wasn't worth it. Which, to my understanding, has been Fox's mantra over raising the upper tax bracket.

/I think they've deliberately overblown the line of where it's 'worth it', but that's just me. Do you really think most people making 250k+ are going to chuck it in if their tax rate goes up 10%?
 
2012-05-06 08:35:12 PM

Salt Lick Steady: bunner


Meh. S'okay. I guess I'll always be a little less than enthusiastic about the degree to which one of the most useful discussion resources on the net gets so cheaply used, but everybody gets all worked up about THEIR pony in the dog and pony show, it seems. All I've ever asked of those who would bring the ad hominem is to step back a few feet from the tree they're focused on and see they notice the forest fire. A strong opinion often contains lot of reasoning and reflective thought. Thanks.
 
2012-05-06 08:39:26 PM
Je suis canard gigantesque.
 
2012-05-06 08:48:27 PM

Mrtraveler01: France isn't that bad off is it?


S&P already downgraded them (shortly after the US downgrade). Whether or not you believe S&P is another matter.....but nobody in Europe is really in great shape. Eighteen months of a spend-your-way-to-prosperity government won't help matters. The US is a pretty good example of that.
 
2012-05-06 08:53:43 PM

cameroncrazy1984: MeinRS6: If you have no opinion on the rate paid, then what the hell are you disagreeing with me about then

I'm not disagreeing at all. I'm simply asking you to back up your claims. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to do.


I've explained it to you already. Go learn something about the tax code and get back to me.

Perhaps in your study you will notice how the code has changed over the years. That's not something that I can put in a single post on Fark. It's massive. I can assure you that there used to be A LOT of things you could do to avoid US taxes that are now no longer available.
 
2012-05-06 08:59:01 PM
images.midilibre.fr

the new french first lady
 
2012-05-06 09:00:30 PM

ricochet4: [images.midilibre.fr image 510x255]

the new french first lady


They broke up years ago.
 
2012-05-06 09:07:21 PM
Wouldn't it be fantastic if France rebuilt its economy to a level of prosperity not seen in decades, if not centuries, under a socialist government? I wonder where all the people making quick puns about bankruptcy would be then...

/ain't gonna happen, but there is always a chance
 
2012-05-06 09:16:06 PM

fanbladesaresharp: willyfreddy: Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy.

/keep rehashing those old talkin' points tho!
//brainwashing amurikans ftw!!!

That's amusing. Much of my family is Danish and some Portugese. They don't like socialism at all.


You know some Danish people who don't like socialism? NO WAI! I guess that totally invalidates my point then. GOSH DARN IT!!

/sigh
 
mhd
2012-05-06 09:16:46 PM

Heron: By the mid-90s, left-wing parties had dominated politics in Europe for decades.


Which Europe are we speaking about here? Are you including the former eastern bloc in this statistic to achieve that result?

Just looking at the UK, France and Germany, it's been mostly centrist/right-wing since the end of WW2. Sure, there was Miterrand at the time, but I would call neither Kohl nor Major (or gosh forbid, Thatcher) "left-wing".
 
2012-05-06 09:35:33 PM

El Brujo: Have you seen Idiocracy? It's in full-farking-swing and it makes me sad. That movie is prophetic a documentary.

 
2012-05-06 09:51:51 PM

Mrtraveler01: "Sarkozy: Let's be a united and patriotic France"
Won't see any Americans politicians saying anything like that.


Uh, have you ever seen Obama's 2008 victory speech?

--Obama on his rival: "Sen.McCain fought long and hard in this campaign, and he's fought even longer and harder for the country that he loves. We are better off for the service rendered by this brave and selfless leader. I congratulate him; I congratulate Gov. Palin for all that they've achieved. And I look forward to working with them to renew this nation's promise in the months ahead.

--Obama on being united: "...Democrat and Republican, black and white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, gay, straight, disabled and not disabled. Americans have sent a message to the world that we have never been just a collection of individuals, or just a collection of red states and blue states. We are, and we always will be, the United States of America."

So yea, saying "Let's all come together and be patriotic and work as one for the good of us all" is pretty common election day rhetoric.
 
2012-05-06 10:10:31 PM
471 comments and nobody has yet made a joke about Sarkozy coming up short?
 
2012-05-06 10:13:54 PM
Cue the big time stock market losses now that Greece & France are now Anti Europe Austerity
 
2012-05-06 10:16:22 PM

ontariolightning: Cue the big time stock market losses now that Greece & France are now Anti Europe Austerity


It's already starting in Asia.

But give it a few days and it'll be back up because of something totally unrelated.
 
2012-05-06 10:18:34 PM
This is bad for Obama.
 
2012-05-06 10:19:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: ontariolightning: Cue the big time stock market losses now that Greece & France are now Anti Europe Austerity

It's already starting in Asia.

But give it a few days and it'll be back up because of something totally unrelated.


Excellent
 
2012-05-06 10:20:15 PM

ontariolightning: Cue the big time stock market losses now that Greece & France are now Anti Europe Austerity


This is a lock. Monday should be a good day to be short.
 
2012-05-06 10:38:44 PM

MeinRS6: Also, I don't see you asking Cameron for a link to back up his assertion that people were actually paying 90% on their income.


I don't care about the argument at hand.

Inherently, the statement you make is the very reason why idiots in this country don't support tax increases on the rich (aside from the fact that they're simpletons who are duped by the mass media and by Goebbels-like propaganda campaigns): they believe the highest moderate tax rates are what the wealthy would pay on all of their income.
 
2012-05-06 10:42:09 PM
Peugot last seen packing up and heading to Germany.
 
2012-05-06 11:22:57 PM

i has an internet: Heron: i has an internet: DamnYankees: This isn't that weird. The French president in the nineties was socialist.

It is relatively against-trend, though, and so I think some surprise is at least marginally warranted. Most EMU member-states have shifted rightward over the past 15 years, and several of them have responded to their economic crises by electing 'serious' right-wing deficit-hawks and the like because of the general mythology that such politicians know more about how to repair economies and stabilize growth. Sarkozy appeared to be on path to consigning france to years of the sort of ECB-backed economic suicide that several other countries (in particular Ireland and Greece) had undertaken. So, this is probably a positive development for France.

I'd say the victories of right-wing parties in Europe in the mid 90s to mid 00s were a result less of a general policy shift in Euro thinking, and more a sort of "changing of the guard" combined with rising nationalist feelings brought on by the EU project and heavier immigration.

By the mid-90s, left-wing parties had dominated politics in Europe for decades. Just like with the Tories in Britain, they were seen as old, corrupt, and worn-out. At the same time, right-wing parties could both claim credit for the successful aspects of the Euro(as they'd been advocating privatizing reform for years) while continuing to hold on to the support of nationalist Euro-skeptic parties(as they had also been resisting the "United States of Europe" concept for just as long). If you look at public polls on the issue, there was no drop in support for social programs during the period. The hallmarks of Socialist policy -universal health care, strong unions, a tightly managed export sector- all remained popular, and as the GFC showed, while plenty of voters no doubt liked the sound and propaganda behind "market liberalization" in finance, none of them (even the financiers) really understood what taking anti-fraud laws off the boo ...


Oh, ok cool. I guess I agree with you then :p
 
2012-05-06 11:24:12 PM

MeinRS6: I've explained it to you already


If you'd have explained it to me already, there'd be citations in any of your posts. You don't explain things with bare assertions.
 
2012-05-06 11:26:59 PM

MeinRS6: I can assure you that there used to be A LOT of things you could do to avoid US taxes that are now no longer available.


Also, great. Does that mean that the wealthy did enough to pay less than a 30% effective rate when the highest marginal rate was at 90%?

You may think you've proven a point, but you haven't. You need data for that.
 
2012-05-06 11:30:12 PM

AngryDragon: Monseiur Hollande already has a plan. In order to feed the proletariat, he is going to reduce the size of France's standing army. He should get a good return on that program though.


[de-motivational-posters.com image 540x432]


As most special forces guys who've worked with them in the field will tell you, the French are actually pretty hardcore, standup guys when it comes to fighting, and as the Libyans and Africans generally will tell you, they don't tend to fark around when it comes to killing people for profit either. But keep pretending their wusses just because they didn't have the population to throw another 1.7 million bodies into the meat-grinder twice in twenty years almost a century ago.
 
2012-05-06 11:43:57 PM
But I liked it when Sarkozy spoke with the moron Palin. Good times.

/ Nailin'
// Not obscure here.
 
2012-05-06 11:59:44 PM
C'est une mauvaise nouvelle...pour Obamer.
 
2012-05-07 12:02:36 AM
So LePen isn't mightier?
 
2012-05-07 12:02:47 AM

Hector Remarkable: C'est une mauvaise nouvelle...pour Obamer.


Je vois que vous avez fait là
 
2012-05-07 12:04:01 AM

Mrtraveler01: i has an internet: So, this is probably a positive development for France.

Hopefully.

Being Germany's biatch wasn't helping I don't think.


Makes me wonder sometimes if some of the same people of that mindset just didn't move 500 miles west and retry things. borders are just lines in sand right?
 
2012-05-07 12:06:47 AM
WHAR BIRTH CERTIFICIT FARTCOIS WHAR
\ O /
|
/\
 
2012-05-07 12:14:54 AM

HaywoodJablonski: I'll always remember Sarkozy for giving us this moment, which led to one of my best headlines:


My first reaction to that picture was...she should have bought the blue, green or white version of that dress b/c that color looks like crap against her hair color.

My second reaction was that she has no farking taste in shoes. Beige flats with that dress? Sacre blu!

/if i was a guy I'd be gay
//NTTAWWT
 
2012-05-07 12:24:55 AM
Wow, I knew Sarko was in trouble but this is a surprise.
 
2012-05-07 12:50:16 AM

Tax Boy: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 468x433]

"Well, at least now I shall have more time to devote to sex with my incredibly hot wife"


Rumor has it that Sarko requires Viagra.
 
2012-05-07 01:11:19 AM

drewsclues: because Oba


Just clicked to make sure you're from the deep south. Carry on.
 
2012-05-07 01:15:18 AM

Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Frank N Stein: cameroncrazy1984: Hey since that other guy won't do it, can you point me to where this has ever happened in history?

Cuba.

[citation needed]

Not that I'll get it.

You're right. All those Cubans in Miami were just peasant farmers and laborers. The Cuban business leaders stayed after Castro took power, and Cuba is now one of the most prosperous countries in the world


==

Back in power, Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike. He then aligned with the wealthiest landowners who owned the largest sugar plantations, and presided over a stagnating economy that widened the gap between rich and poor Cubans. Batista's increasingly corrupt and repressive regime then began to systematically profit from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, by negotiating lucrative relationships with the American mafia, who controlled the drug, gambling, and prostitution businesses in Havana, and with large multinational American corporations that had invested considerable amounts of money in Cuba. To quell the growing discontent amongst the populace-which was subsequently displayed through frequent student riots and anti-Batista demonstrations-Batista established tighter censorship of the media, while also utilizing his anti-Communist secret police and U.S.-supplied weaponry to carry out wide-scale violence, torture and public executions; ultimately killing as many as 20,000 Cubans.

Catalyzing the resistance to such tactics, for two years (December 1956 - December 1958) Fidel Castro's July 26 Movement and other nationalist rebelling elements led an urban and rural-based guerrilla uprising against Batista's regime, which culminated in his eventual defeat by rebels under the command of Che Guevara at the Battle of Santa Clara on New Year's Day 1959. Batista immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune to the Dominican Republic, where strongman and previous military ally Rafael Trujillo held power. Batista eventually found political asylum in Portugal, where he lived until dying of a heart attack on August 6, 1973 near Marbella, Spain.


But you know, it was probably just high taxes.
 
2012-05-07 01:20:47 AM
So, who's going to loan money to France to pay for their new programs?

The Germans have money, and are now being vilified by just about every member of the EU, just because they may want theior money back someday.

The Greeks are broke, the Spanish, the Italians, the Irish, and Portugese are in the same boat.

The UK has admitted just this week that they are sinking back into recession, some are arguing if they ever really were out of one.

The US, have you noticed how we just gave our last few trillion to those that successfully curried favor from our politicians, and we may be completely and utterly broke?

Asia could come up with about $3,000,000,000,000.00, which would buy the EU about a year before collapse.

Here is my plan: let it all fail now. It's going too happen sooner or later. Let's plan on a global failure, and how to pick up the pieces in a manner that doesn't involve burning up a generation.

/'scuse me. i've got to get to my bunker. but i'm hopeing it all turns out ok for you.
 
2012-05-07 01:42:09 AM

Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.


If you make $32million a year, you're not gonna miss it, unless you're a greedy bastard.
 
2012-05-07 01:57:20 AM

The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

If you make $32million a year, you're not gonna miss it, unless you're a greedy bastard.


If I made that much, it'd be mine. To take it from me because you think you know better what to do with it, makes you a thief. A greedy one at that.

Don't be a thief, the Government doesn't like the competition.
 
2012-05-07 02:15:16 AM
OK education time. Lets talk about whats called effective tax rates. Its hard to get good numbers using Google going that far back, but multiple sources say that in the 1940's-1960's the effective tax rate was around 30%. Even for the rich guys. Yes their marginal hit 90%+, but their investment income didnt get hit that hard. So one side benefit of that was it was a better idea to invest in a company then to pull money out(which may explain some of the success back then). Currently (IE as of this last year or so) that number for the richest is around 17-18% I think. (you can Google this as well). So the richest pay half as much now as they did then. As does the average American.....The middle class incidentally get slammed the worst of all, which kinda sucks for us because it means transitioning from poor to middle class to rich is almost impossible.

Some links:
Link
Link

So here is an interesting thing-gutting the middle class results in lowering the tax receipts as both the poor and the rich can most easily avoid paying taxes. Ouch.

Also of note as taxes as a % of GDP have gone steadily down. Corporate taxes especially dropping. So really we have a tax collection problem....on corporations and the wealthy.

Funny thing how multiple people here talk about Greek extravagance. Obviously they haven't paid attention. Greece did have some extravagant things, but as a % of their GDP they spent less then the average EU country, instead their problem came about from....you guessed it. Not collecting enough taxes. Yes they spent less then the average EU country:

http://www.tax.com/taxcom/features.nsf/5379826c02267cd485257173000d68 e 0/ce758cb00a0cf6dd85257737005ac0d4/$FILE/figure_1.pdf

Wow those free spending....greeks? not so much. If we end up being like the greeks it won't be because we spent too much, it will be because we collected too little. funny thing, looking at greek spending as a % of GDP you could also argue they didst spend enough. I'm not mind you...but you could.

But but they're the job creators! Yes they are...when they are re-investing in themselves and in R&D. But guess what? They're profit seeking to the point where they hurt their environment, and DON'T create good jobs. IE Ford had it right when he said he wanted to pay his workers a wage high enough to buy what they made. How many folks making iPhone's right now can afford one? Yeah. I don't recall seeing any of those employees using them when I was there last, but I admit its been quite a few years now. But what goes on now hurts everyone, but none of them can stop because it benefits them individually, even while killing the prosperous economy around them.

So do we need higher taxes? yup. And corporations and the wealthy need to pay them so that we encourage re-investment in their business, and the middle and lower class make enough money to spend it on products that make us all more wealthy. Trickle down is a proven failure, trickle UP has historically worked well for capitalistic economies, however it takes good government to make that happen. Weird huh?

Now is the US broke? Uhmmm...no not really. What we are is greedy and selfish to the point that we're killing our economy. IE we're in deep water and instead of co-operating and working together, people are trying to stand on each other. Yes we have debt. 14.6 trillion I think it is? Rough estimate give or take a couple trillion, and give or take how you calculate it. in 2005 our total real estate was valued at 25 trillion, our GDP is 15 million. We are one year into GDP debt. For me thats about 107K if the last mail from my employer is accurate. That hurts. even worse is...we're paying interest on it. to who? Oh mostly ourselves. uhmmm...wait what?

Banks have a lot of that debt, and social security has purchased about 2.6 Trillion of that debt.
Link

in fact heres a good breakdown of that:
Link

And at truly low rates as well. Still not a good thing. BUT doable. Japans at 220%:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/government-debt-to-gdp

And still surviving. BUT we should avoid that level of debt. Heres the real problem....Keynesian economics say that in order to get out of the situation we are in you spend like a drunken sailor on projects that have long term benefits to your country. IE national road systems, dams, infrastructure. Bailing out auto factories is probably good, but bailing out AIG? Not so much. I do understand the thinking at the time however, and it may break even, dunno. And you go big or you go home. Problem 1: We haven't gone big. Problem 2 is about what you do when you are doing good, and when things go good the answer is "OMG deficits!" THATS when you pay it down. But instead Reagen, and many others said "deficits don't matter". Of course they matter, you need low deficits so that when things are bad you can spend your way out of them. I can probably find links to this, but I have no urge to cover economics for people, for gods sake folks-take a college class, and really get in depth and study this stuff. Its not rocket science, but it is occasionally counter-intuitive.

France has just elected a president that understands economics hopefully. And the first thing he is going to do is probably try and solve the crisis by encouraging EU re-investment. Only problem is that Germany really doesn't WANT the crisis solved in some ways. their on top of the ball, and really don't want to share. And who can blame them really? they entered the EU that way. They're better off spouting the austerity line all the way up until the end up in the toilet as a group. Then Germany can bail.

Greece is going to go freaking nuts. Yeah they've elected some neo-nazi's, big whoop, its the overall picture of their government thats going to be fascinating to watch. By not leaving the EU they've condemned their countrymen and women to chaos and suffering. They should be shot. And if things go badly enough they just might be. Because its going to continue to worsen.

The UK btw has clearly tried austerity and demonstrated just how horrifically dumb of an idea it is. Analogy: you're income is too low, and you sell your car to pay rent resulting in losing your job. Derp!

Anyways Good luck EU, you need it, and I hope things get better. Maybe this socialist in France will help, or maybe he will drag it all down. But I actually don't think he is going to hurt.

My fellow Americans, study this stuff. Don't repeat sound bites, don't fall into the belief that economics is the same as your household finances. Its not. Yes some politicians act that way. And when politicians say they will wave their wand and fix the economy, listen for facts and specifics. Saying "we will reduce loopholes" isn't enough(both sides say this). Seriously some of those loopholes serve a purpose-the R&D one for example, others though not so much. Saying they will cut safety net programs is a invitation to disaster UK style.

The Republican selection has been awesomely horrific, the democratic one seems slightly misled. Maybe 4 yrs from now we will see a better candidate, or maybe a president unworried by re-election will get his act together. I suspect the feeling I have now is exactly how the French people felt going into their election.
 
2012-05-07 02:16:22 AM

Rising Ape: LordBollocks: A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.

A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.


Except they aren't really giving up much of anything. Ask Michael Schumacher how much it sucks to live in Switzerland, and to go back to Germany as often as he pleases.
Same thing happened in Greece - everyone with serious money in the bank has "moved" to Cyprus.


Switzerland has a sizable French speaking population as well. Just saying.
 
2012-05-07 02:18:20 AM

Slam1263: The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

If you make $32million a year, you're not gonna miss it, unless you're a greedy bastard.

If I made that much, it'd be mine. To take it from me because you think you know better what to do with it, makes you a thief. A greedy one at that.

Don't be a thief, the Government doesn't like the competition.


Its yours? so all the things like police, fire, ambulance, military defense, infrastructure.....NONE of that contributed to your success? Public education?

OK you must have inherited a ton...and you made all of that money entirely by yourself with no employees? WOW you sir are amazing!

Look the society you are in made it all possible, without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%.

Oh and guess what! If you re-invest that money into your company, growing it...you wont pay 75%!

In fact miracles of miracles...it might pay off long term even more! For everyone! WHOA!
 
2012-05-07 02:24:13 AM
Alas, there's no brown color for the background. "Right-wing schitthead" it is. And no, the filter doesn't apply.
 
2012-05-07 02:26:53 AM

neaorin: Rising Ape: LordBollocks: A 75% top level income tax coming in at 1 million Euros will actually raise very little because those people will simply leave the country.

A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

Except they aren't really giving up much of anything. Ask Michael Schumacher how much it sucks to live in Switzerland, and to go back to Germany as often as he pleases.
Same thing happened in Greece - everyone with serious money in the bank has "moved" to Cyprus.


Switzerland has a sizable French speaking population as well. Just saying.


Maybe because in Switzerland French is one of the 4 official languages of the country? that being said, while Michael Schumacher doesnt mind losing his citizenship, I think French folks might mind more on the average. They're just as patriotic as Americans are i seem to recall.

But wait! EVEN BETTER! Someone DID ask him about how much it sucks...turns out he likes living in switzerland (and hey I dont blame him) but even of more value is his German citizenship. and I qoute:
""Rubbish! Of course I'm German, I have a German passport, and I look forward to it every time I come to Germany," he said. "

So yeah other countries can be nice to live in, but it turns out...in some ways there is no place like home.
 
2012-05-07 02:31:00 AM

Greywar:

Its yours? so all the things like police, fire, ambulance, military defense, infrastructure.....NONE of that contributed to your success? Public education?

OK you must have inherited a ton...and you made all of that money entirely by yourself with no employees? WOW you sir are amazing!


He's already paid taxes for all the public services he got - a lot more than you did in fact, especially if we're talking Europe.
Likewise, he's already paid his workers before counting his profit (presumably).


Look the society you are in made it all possible, without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%.


If that's the logic then why stop at 75%? Why not make it 99%?
Or is that for later, when we run out of other people's money again?


Oh and guess what! If you re-invest that money into your company, growing it...you wont pay 75%!


Which is exactly what is going to happen, at least on paper.
 
2012-05-07 03:01:23 AM

Greywar: while Michael Schumacher doesnt mind losing his citizenship, I think French folks might mind more on the average.


Nobody said anything about losing citizenship. Both France and Switzerland (and a host of other countries) allow dual citizenship.
 
2012-05-07 03:14:06 AM

neaorin: Greywar:

Its yours? so all the things like police, fire, ambulance, military defense, infrastructure.....NONE of that contributed to your success? Public education?

OK you must have inherited a ton...and you made all of that money entirely by yourself with no employees? WOW you sir are amazing!

He's already paid taxes for all the public services he got - a lot more than you did in fact, especially if we're talking Europe.
Likewise, he's already paid his workers before counting his profit (presumably).


Look the society you are in made it all possible, without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%.


If that's the logic then why stop at 75%? Why not make it 99%?
Or is that for later, when we run out of other people's money again?


Oh and guess what! If you re-invest that money into your company, growing it...you wont pay 75%!


Which is exactly what is going to happen, at least on paper.


Interestingly enough given my income, we're talking about my money to a larger degree then the average person. Why not make it 99%? Because at that point we hit diminishing returns on effort vs income. 75% doesn't. That's like saying "hey I washed my cat, why not go all the way and drown him" Which is what you're trying to make it sound like i am saying. Thats sophomoric, and an excellent example of someone quoting a talking point and letting others do their thinking for them. Nice!

And since deficit spending is occurring then my point is...no he has NOT paid all of his taxes for what he has got. Maybe you've missed basic math here. If you spend $100, and get $110 of services to you, your company, and all of its employees and customers....then no. no you have not paid for all the benefits you got.
 
2012-05-07 03:18:22 AM
t2.gstatic.com
 
Heb
2012-05-07 03:20:12 AM

hurdboy: Mrtraveler01: France isn't that bad off is it?

S&P already downgraded them (shortly after the US downgrade). Whether or not you believe S&P is another matter.....but nobody in Europe is really in great shape. Eighteen months of a spend-your-way-to-prosperity government won't help matters. The US is a pretty good example of that.


Eh? The US is an example of spending promoting growth. Obama has managed to save US industry, shrink the public sector, and grow the private sector. He saved the US (and your credit rating downgrade was due to the Republicans political shenanigans).

Outside the US he is widely thought to have done an incredible job. But I appreciate that in the US this may not be as important as abortion or something.
 
2012-05-07 03:24:09 AM
?
 
2012-05-07 03:26:47 AM

Greywar: Slam1263: The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

If you make $32million a year, you're not gonna miss it, unless you're a greedy bastard.

If I made that much, it'd be mine. To take it from me because you think you know better what to do with it, makes you a thief. A greedy one at that.

Don't be a thief, the Government doesn't like the competition.

Its yours? so all the things like police, fire, ambulance, military defense, infrastructure.....NONE of that contributed to your success? Public education?

OK you must have inherited a ton...and you made all of that money entirely by yourself with no employees? WOW you sir are amazing!

Look the society you are in made it all possible, without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%.

Oh and guess what! If you re-invest that money into your company, growing it...you wont pay 75%!

In fact miracles of miracles...it might pay off long term even more! For everyone! WHOA!


Well, I WAS going to respond, but Greywar just said exactly what I Was going to say, so I'll just say....

^ THIS.
 
2012-05-07 03:30:27 AM
!

t0.gstatic.com lzy cat/wrknprgrss.jpg ; )
 
2012-05-07 03:38:12 AM
t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-05-07 03:41:56 AM

LordBollocks: Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.


Problem is: Nobody will loan Hollande money. At least not at an intereste rate that would make his plans viable. As soon France stops her "efforts" as meek as they may be, the interest rates will rise. In the old battle between socialist politics and reality the score is about 0:89567.
 
2012-05-07 03:42:43 AM

Heb: hurdboy: Mrtraveler01: France isn't that bad off is it?

S&P already downgraded them (shortly after the US downgrade). Whether or not you believe S&P is another matter.....but nobody in Europe is really in great shape. Eighteen months of a spend-your-way-to-prosperity government won't help matters. The US is a pretty good example of that.

Eh? The US is an example of spending promoting growth. Obama has managed to save US industry, shrink the public sector, and grow the private sector. He saved the US (and your credit rating downgrade was due to the Republicans political shenanigans).

Outside the US he is widely thought to have done an incredible job. But I appreciate that in the US this may not be as important as abortion or something.


Shrug. I think he has done a credible job given the situation, but I think he could have done much better. Mostly by spending more, and spending better. But he has been handicapped by the republicans a lot. Too many people think of him as running the country when he doesn't really.

I've always been fascinated by how others perceive us. Danish coworker of mine recently told me our healthcare situation makes us a laughing stock of the world in some ways. He cant understand how we can fail to realize single payer or govt controlled healthcare for all is to our benefit.
 
2012-05-07 03:46:52 AM
VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE!
 
2012-05-07 03:48:20 AM

Monophtalmos: LordBollocks: Hollande wants to tell Merkel where to shove the austerity plan and attempt to "grow" out of trouble by borrowing even more and spending it on an enlarged public sector. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Problem is: Nobody will loan Hollande money. At least not at an intereste rate that would make his plans viable. As soon France stops her "efforts" as meek as they may be, the interest rates will rise. In the old battle between socialist politics and reality the score is about 0:89567.


Currently 2.85%. But you may be right long term, one of the problems is they can't print their own money, and exchange inflation for interest on debt.

But you may be surprised. Believe it or not these business people DO understand economics. they may scream and curse about it and demand austerity because its in their individual benefit, but they may also recognize the other side of the coin-that long term-that spending their way out is the best choice.
 
2012-05-07 03:59:47 AM

Greywar:

Interestingly enough given my income, we're talking about my money to a larger degree then the average person. Why not make it 99%? Because at that point we hit diminishing returns on effort vs income. 75% doesn't. That's like saying "hey I washed my cat, why not go all the way and drown him" Which is what you're trying to make it sound like i am saying. Thats sophomoric, and an excellent example of someone quoting a talking point and letting others do their thinking for them. Nice!


Interestingly enough you are the one who wrote exactly "without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%".
As if society actually can decide to stop existing. You are not the mob, to be able to say "yeah, either give us a large cut or we burn your place down" to business owners. Society benefits from business just as business benefits from society, so the 100% vs 75% "argument" is superfluous.
So yeah, if you don't want people to attribute idiotic ideas to you, stop saying idiotic stuff.


And since deficit spending is occurring then my point is...no he has NOT paid all of his taxes for what he has got. Maybe you've missed basic math here. If you spend $100, and get $110 of services to you, your company, and all of its employees and customers....then no. no you have not paid for all the benefits you got.


First of all, my employees pay their own taxes out of their income which I provide (and I pay on top of that).
Then, my customers are responsible for paying for their own services out of their own income.

I don't know if averages and means factor into your definition of "basic math" but people in the top tax bracket anywhere in Europe pay a lot more in taxes than the value of services they receive. It's those (many) who pay little to no tax who drag down the averages. I'm not saying that's a bad thing and I'm all for progressive taxation, but to argue that the top earners don't pay for their own state-supplied services is idiotic.

"Deficit spending" does not equal "every single person is not paying their fair share". It's more like "those who pay more can't cover for all those who pay less".
There is also the little matter of the services not being worth what you pay for them (used to have this beef with the French myself on occasion), but government waste is another story.

I live in Europe and have worked in France in the past. I have filed tax forms there. France is just about the most egalitarian place there is. The top tax bracket is already 41% and it starts at about 70k euros, which is really not all that much. Even then I'd learn about wealthy people not taking dividends and channeling their money though Switzerland and so on. 75% is just going to encourage more people to do that.
 
2012-05-07 04:12:50 AM

Frank N Stein: He wants to tax the rich 75%. It's going to be funny watching a mass exodus of French businesses.


Two things: You don't understand marginal taxes, and Sarkozy wanted to raise corporate taxes.
 
2012-05-07 04:14:51 AM

neaorin: Greywar:

snip ...


Hi neaorin! I actually have a lot more respect for your response then a lot of the others I get. You're thinking, and I like that.

While tax burden does seem high at the upper end, I would argue that 75% is about right. If you look at it, you even kind of point this out. 70k euros is really not that much....

So should those making 70K euros or less pay more? Because the money has to come from somewhere. This is basic math. But you bring up a good point about tax loopholes etc. If anything the use of those tax loopholes increase the need to increase the percentage. And/OR find a way to close every single darn loophole and still raise taxes.

So if you need more tax income...do you take it from those making less then 70K euros or more?

Short term you need to bring this income in, AND you need deficit spending to stop this downward spiral on the economy, but at the same time long term you need to get the tax money in. That was Greece's problem. Not a spending problem, but a tax one.

Thanks for your thought out and reasoned reply!
 
2012-05-07 07:19:17 AM
Good.

This is what happens when you try to make the poor and middle classes pay for the excesses and avarice of the wealthy elite.
 
2012-05-07 07:20:42 AM

kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.


What are you talking about?

America has been living under the rule of that Socialist Muslim Communist Atheist Fascist Barry Hussein NoBama for over three years now? We've had to fight off Death Panels and the biggest tax hikes in American history and stop him from banning the bible somehow and using "fast and the furious" as an excuse to take away all our guns and are working hard to overturn Obamacare so it won't interfere with God's very own healthcare system of Freedom.

/Poe's Law Disclaimer: Simulated Derp for comic purposes only. Poster is actually an Obama supporter.
 
2012-05-07 07:26:03 AM
Europe can end its problems tomorrow when it just agrees to inflation (by printing money big time). That doesn't sit well with the Germans (and the Dutch) because they have the most in savings to lose. Granted, it's only a temporary measure (immediate relief and lasting pain), but that can be prevented by implementing sensible rules for the future - mostly intent on curbing the inclination of consumers to borrow too much money. The Germans don't trust that - they fear that after the relief, people, being human an' all, would just settle back and do nothing. Which is a legitimate fear.
 
2012-05-07 07:54:46 AM

willyfreddy: Democratic Socialism: Makes people happy.

[thatsglitchy.com image 400x275]

/keep rehashing those old talkin' points tho!
//brainwashing amurikans ftw!!!


Except that most of the countries on that list aren't really socialist.
 
2012-05-07 07:55:20 AM

Greywar: Shrug. I think he has done a credible job given the situation, but I think he could have done much better. Mostly by spending more, and spending better. But he has been handicapped by the republicans a lot. Too many people think of him as running the country when he doesn't really


Nope. He put misplaced faith in two places -- success of the "clean energy" industries, and House Democrats. As a result, the questionable green alchemy projects didn't pan out after energy prices started returning to normal, and the stimulus, aside from things like the unemployment benefits, was a collection of Democratic Reps' pork projects stuck on hold since 1994. Until Scott Brown won Kennedy's seat, the Republicans were basically powerless on Capitol Hill. Today, the hold-up is Harry Reid's Senate, where, when there's a negotiation with the Administration, they treat him like what he was -- a back-bench junior Senator from a state with absolutely no chance of electing a Republican to take his spot.

Greywar: I've always been fascinated by how others perceive us. Danish coworker of mine recently told me our healthcare situation makes us a laughing stock of the world in some ways. He cant understand how we can fail to realize single payer or govt controlled healthcare for all is to our benefit.


He's right. The PP&ACA makes US healthcare even more of a joke. We already have single-payer insurance for a large (and growing every year) segment of the population. It works. People who don't want to use it are free not to. Am I curious to see what Romney ends up proposing? Absolutely. Do I think anything other than a single-payer insurance system can work? No.
 
2012-05-07 08:13:32 AM
At least it's an ethos.
 
2012-05-07 08:44:02 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-07 09:33:30 AM

TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed


Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.
 
2012-05-07 09:40:00 AM

El Brujo: kxs401: Oooh, an actual socialist. So many Americans have no idea what those are.

Any American who believes we now have a socialist nation is not someone who should even be given the time of day. These are the same kinds of people who say we have a neegra muslin' for president who wants to take your gun away, and on the opposite side, people who believe jet trails in the sky are means to spy on us.

I'm willing to bet those that waive this flag have never been to a socialist country. Unfortunately, misinformation (24 hour "news" entertainment) has deeply corrupted our collective intelligence. It's farking sad.

I'll believe we are socialist once I stop seeing hundreds of our citizens dying in doorways, on park benches, and in city parks year after year. And when I don't have to not go to my doctor when layoffs happen and I can't afford COBRA.


What's funny here is that you actually believe socialism will mean no more homeless or poor people. Socialism gives us more of those things, not less. I know in your perfect idea of what socialism is, everyone is happy and equal. But that is NEVER the reality. In reality, you get a LOT of poor people, and a very few, politically connected, powerful and rich people.
 
2012-05-07 10:02:20 AM

pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.


And this "trickle down" stuff. How's that been working for ya so far?
 
2012-05-07 10:43:08 AM

pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.


"Every Single Time"?

Socialist policies have been quite successful in a number of countries including right here in the good ol' US of A.

Why is it so hard for some Americans to see that some issues are better addressed with Socialistic policies while others are better addressed with Capitalistic policies?

Neither Capitalism or Socialism are workable in pure forms, but as part of a mixed economy, they are quite successful.
 
2012-05-07 10:52:30 AM

keylock71: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

"Every Single Time"?

Socialist policies have been quite successful in a number of countries including right here in the good ol' US of A.

Why is it so hard for some Americans to see that some issues are better addressed with Socialistic policies while others are better addressed with Capitalistic policies?

Neither Capitalism or Socialism are workable in pure forms, but as part of a mixed economy, they are quite successful.


I noticed you didn't site any examples.
 
Heb
2012-05-07 11:00:31 AM

pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.


Nonsense. Or at least I think you're talking nonsense. It's so hard to tell with Americans what they mean when they use the word "socialism" these days. But socialist principles and left-leading governments have been demonstrably effective in almost every developed nation.

As of course have right-leaning governments. Which is evidence of the way democracy works best, changing governments and methods over time to adapt to different circumstances, keeping the good and changing the bad.

Anyway, stop being a loon.
 
2012-05-07 11:07:18 AM

TV's Vinnie: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

And this "trickle down" stuff. How's that been working for ya so far?


Pretty good actually.

Link
 
2012-05-07 11:08:20 AM

pnome: I noticed you didn't site any examples.


I provided the exact same number of examples you did...

Do your own homework.

I'll even give you a hint. Have a look at some of the policies in place in Denmark and Finland.
 
2012-05-07 11:08:59 AM

Heb: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

Nonsense. Or at least I think you're talking nonsense. It's so hard to tell with Americans what they mean when they use the word "socialism" these days. But socialist principles and left-leading governments have been demonstrably effective in almost every developed nation.

As of course have right-leaning governments. Which is evidence of the way democracy works best, changing governments and methods over time to adapt to different circumstances, keeping the good and changing the bad.

Anyway, stop being a loon.


...when they give up on socialism and start implementing market based reforms.
 
Heb
2012-05-07 11:17:58 AM

pnome: Heb: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

Nonsense. Or at least I think you're talking nonsense. It's so hard to tell with Americans what they mean when they use the word "socialism" these days. But socialist principles and left-leading governments have been demonstrably effective in almost every developed nation.

As of course have right-leaning governments. Which is evidence of the way democracy works best, changing governments and methods over time to adapt to different circumstances, keeping the good and changing the bad.

Anyway, stop being a loon.

...when they give up on socialism and start implementing market based reforms.


What does "giving up on socialism" mean? Some things the state does better. Just because you don't want the state to do everything doesn't mean you've "given up on socialism" any more than not wanting the market to do everything mean you've "given up on capitalism". None of the developed countries have adopted an entirely market driven approach, because it doesn't work and creates massive injustices, just as none of the developed countries have stuck with an entirely state based approach, because that doesn't work either. But we aren't talking about communism v unfettered capitalism, we are talking about the integration of socialist policies (which you rather foolishly claimed always failed) and an effective regulated market.

There have been plenty of effective left-wing governments enacting socialist principles (and indeed a few duds), just as their have been effective right-wing governments pushing deregulation of the markets (and a few duds). What democracy does best is swing between the two to create effective democracy, where the state does what it does best, and the regulated market does what it does best.

Honestly, you just sound like a fool when you proclaim that socialist policies always fail.
 
Esn
2012-05-07 11:35:44 AM

Malivon: Here's a question. Why would electing a socialist be a bad thing? I'm not for the idea or against it, simply because the knowledge that I have of the current state of France is borderline ignorant. Sure they're pretty much #2 in the Euro Zone and have a lot of say with the power of the purse, but my knowledge of the situation is equal to that of knowing how to do chemistry (knowing more than some, but not enough to grasp it and make it easy).

This may be what Europe needs or not need.

Why yes, I am in America. That is beside the point if you think you are going to come up with some witty remark about how Americans are ignorant, you can stop. Enlighten me on the situation rather than make a mockery of what I don't know, simply because I'm asking a simple question.


It's bad because "socialist" is like "atheist" in America. You can't be elected to public office if you admit you are one. Therefore, somebody actually admitting to being a socialist and nevertheless being elected president is a sign of unimaginable, incomprehensible evil and you should shun the entire nation of France because they're obviously very stupid because Americans hate socialism and know what is good better than the French do.

That is why it's a bad thing.
 
2012-05-07 11:40:02 AM

pnome: TV's Vinnie: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

And this "trickle down" stuff. How's that been working for ya so far?

Pretty good actually.

Link


Yeah. Right!

theeconomiccollapseblog.com
 
2012-05-07 12:00:22 PM
Welcome to the club, France!
 
Heb
2012-05-07 12:07:04 PM

Silverstaff: Lee Jackson Beauregard: MeinRS6: Heb: I'm fairly certain you've turned yourself into the joke.

I'm entirely certain that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Do you even know what you are trying to attack me about now? Just STFU. No one cares.

Hmm, I wonder if the filter applies to favorite tags. I'm about to favorite MeinRS6 as "schitthead".

I have him tagged as "Tatsuma's Alt" after Tats slipped up last year and revealed that they were the same person: Link


That is very, very funny
 
2012-05-07 12:19:58 PM
France is going to be a great demonstration of what is wrong with socialism when Hollande's policies fail disasterously for France. If you think Greece is doing bad, you haven't seen anything yet.
 
2012-05-07 12:40:42 PM
Socialist? What is that? A communist?
 
2012-05-07 12:42:59 PM
Corporations - "We have to stay on top by being plaint in our goods, services, markets, staffing and executive policies. We have to be able to turn on a dime. We're profitable"

Small Business - "Our mission is to meet the needs of your market niche and to always continue learning and changing. We're making making money"

Government - "NO, NO. NO CHANGE! WE ARE AN AUGUST AND TRADITION FESTOONED BODY ETCHED IN STONE!. We're about to be boarded up."

One of these things is not like the others.
 
Heb
2012-05-07 12:52:03 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Socialist? What is that? A communist?


I think, in American parlance, it means anything to the left of Franco.
 
2012-05-07 01:05:06 PM

Lupine Chemist: German fear of any inflation is absolutely ridiculous

It's ridiculous all the way up till you are deep in it, at which point there is close to no escape except very hard and painful medicine.
 
2012-05-07 01:16:09 PM

AngryDragon: Monseiur Hollande already has a plan. In order to feed the proletariat, he is going to reduce the size of France's standing army. He should get a good return on that program though.


[de-motivational-posters.com image 540x432]


Link
 
2012-05-07 02:49:19 PM
who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.
 
Heb
2012-05-07 03:09:23 PM

Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.


The quote is usually attributed to Churchill, though there is no record of him saying it. And it's liberal rather than socialist, which makes no sense from Churchill.
 
2012-05-07 05:31:39 PM

Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.


And if you haven't figured out false dichotomies by 30, stay the hell out of politics.
 
2012-05-07 05:38:41 PM

bunner: Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.

And if you haven't figured out false dichotomies by 30, stay the hell out of politics.


No comment.
 
2012-05-07 05:45:09 PM

bunner: Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.

And if you haven't figured out false dichotomies by 30, stay the hell out of politics.


If you think that massive gov't deficit spending is going to solve all of the country's economic problems going forward, stay the hell out of politics.
 
2012-05-07 05:52:01 PM

Bruxellensis: bunner: Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.

And if you haven't figured out false dichotomies by 30, stay the hell out of politics.

No comment.


Implying that socialism or capitalism isn't sold as a dichotomy in this day and age, and thusly, I haven't figured out false dichotomies? Come on. you can do better that that.
 
2012-05-07 06:33:09 PM

bunner: Bruxellensis: bunner: Bruxellensis: who was it that said this:

"If you are 20 and aren't a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you're still a socialist, you have no brain."

Can't remember where I heard/read that.

And if you haven't figured out false dichotomies by 30, stay the hell out of politics.

No comment.

Implying that socialism or capitalism isn't sold as a dichotomy in this day and age, and thusly, I haven't figured out false dichotomies? Come on. you can do better that that.


Whoa, there, killer. I didn't imply it, and I never said that. I was just asking if anyone knew who was attributed to that quote (if anyone). I don't have a dog in this fight, hence the "no comment."
 
2012-05-07 06:37:22 PM

Bruxellensis: I don't have a dog in this fight, hence the "no comment."


Hard to tell around here, isn't it? : /
 
2012-05-07 06:44:27 PM

bunner: Bruxellensis: I don't have a dog in this fight, hence the "no comment."

Hard to tell around here, isn't it? : /


Indeed, and I don't blame you at all for the flame. Carry on.
 
2012-05-07 11:12:45 PM

Greywar: Slam1263: The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon which baffles me. You'd have to really, really love money a lot for it to be worth leaving your homeland because you can only earn half a million or so (net) before you hit the 75% tax rate. What on earth would that extra money get you that would make it worth what you'd give up? Frankly we'd be well rid of that kind of greedy bastard.

I think the greedy bastard in this case is the government. They want to take 75 cents of every dollar you earn.

If you make $32million a year, you're not gonna miss it, unless you're a greedy bastard.

If I made that much, it'd be mine. To take it from me because you think you know better what to do with it, makes you a thief. A greedy one at that.

Don't be a thief, the Government doesn't like the competition.

Its yours? so all the things like police, fire, ambulance, military defense, infrastructure.....NONE of that contributed to your success? Public education?

OK you must have inherited a ton...and you made all of that money entirely by yourself with no employees? WOW you sir are amazing!

Look the society you are in made it all possible, without us as a society you would lose 100% of that, not 75%.

Oh and guess what! If you re-invest that money into your company, growing it...you wont pay 75%!

In fact miracles of miracles...it might pay off long term even more! For everyone! WHOA!


Wow, like I said any of that.

But do go on with your blithering, your lisp makes it amusing.
 
2012-05-08 01:26:48 PM

pnome: TV's Vinnie: pnome: TV's Vinnie: It would be a hoot to see socialist policies succeed

Yeah, that would be a "hoot." Since they've failed miserably EVERY SINGLE TIME they've been tried.

And this "trickle down" stuff. How's that been working for ya so far?

Pretty good actually.

Link


Idiot! You cannot interpret you own link! E.g. look at the cost of living index!
It is called "Trickle Up Poverty"!
 
2012-05-08 04:04:53 PM

SlothB77: France is going to be a great demonstration of what is wrong with socialism when Hollande's policies fail disasterously for France. If you think Greece is doing bad, you haven't seen anything yet.


What if Hollande turns around France and is at the helm when things turn up?

Is that proving Socialism works then?

Or is it only proof when it's making a left-winger look bad?
 
2012-05-09 12:28:00 AM

Slam1263: Greywar: Slam1263: The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon whic
-------snip----------

Wow, like I said any of that.

But do go on with your blithering, your lisp makes it amusing.


At this point theres so many references there.....lol.

Interestingly enough I don't see where I replied to you, although there is some completely inaccurate comments that might be vaguely entertaining to respond to.
 
2012-05-09 12:59:39 AM

Greywar: Slam1263: Greywar: Slam1263: The Southern Dandy: Frank N Stein: Rising Ape: A phenomenon whic
-------snip----------

Wow, like I said any of that.

But do go on with your blithering, your lisp makes it amusing.

At this point theres so many references there.....lol.

Interestingly enough I don't see where I replied to you, although there is some completely inaccurate comments that might be vaguely entertaining to respond to.


So, I guess I'll excuse you being a oblivious moron. Laugh out loud.
 
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