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(Newser)   It's time to end the 60 hour work week. It really doesn't do anybody any good   (newser.com) divider line 146
    More: Interesting, Ford Motor Company, child labor laws  
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6851 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 May 2012 at 3:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-06 01:28:44 PM  
Then how will Democrats afford to rent property from Republicans?
 
2012-05-06 02:01:06 PM  
There's a 60-hour work week?
 
2012-05-06 02:11:35 PM  
An observation of mine after many a years with a flexible schedule. If you come in 30 minutes after everyone else but end up working many hours after everyone else leaves, you're thought of as a slacker. But if you come in half-hour earlier than everyone and drop whatever you're working on at the time to leave at normal time, you're considered a go-getter.

In other words, it pisses me off because if I'm on a roll, productivity-wise, I'd rather keep the flow going and work very late. By the time I get home and to bed it's like midnight, so give me a break for being a wee bit late the next day, idiots.
 
2012-05-06 03:24:01 PM  
Its does some people good.

Corporate profits and cash reserves are actually pretty high at the moment.
 
2012-05-06 03:30:58 PM  

Corporate Self: Its does some people good.

Corporate profits and cash reserves are actually pretty high at the moment.


and since Obama is in office, that's entirely his fault amirite?
 
2012-05-06 03:32:59 PM  

Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?


I usually work 40, but I'd love to have a schedule that lets me work additional hours on Monday or Tuesday and then leave by 12 pm or 1 pm on Friday. My company doesn't believe in overtime.
 
2012-05-06 03:34:17 PM  
Let me work 40 hours and quit interrupting me for status updates every 10 minutes and you'll be amazed at the productivity.

Mandate 45 hour workweeks and continue to micro manage me and I will quit at the worst possible time like most of the rest of my department.

/jobs around here are surprisingly easy to find
 
2012-05-06 03:35:34 PM  
Get rid of all career based exemptions from overtime, so no exemptions for programmers and other people. Yeah the people at Goldman Sachs will cry they need to have people working 70 hours a week, but they can damn well pay for 30 hours of overtime or just hire up extra people to do the work.
 
hej
2012-05-06 03:37:46 PM  
subby must not be in IT.
 
2012-05-06 03:48:59 PM  

hej: subby must not be in IT.


^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.
 
2012-05-06 03:51:04 PM  
southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com

/unavailable for comment
 
2012-05-06 04:04:57 PM  

Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.


Know how I can tell you are not a veteran ?
 
2012-05-06 04:11:49 PM  

weave: An observation of mine after many a years with a flexible schedule. If you come in 30 minutes after everyone else but end up working many hours after everyone else leaves, you're thought of as a slacker. But if you come in half-hour earlier than everyone and drop whatever you're working on at the time to leave at normal time, you're considered a go-getter.


For me in a previous job it was the opposite, no matter how early I arrived, leaving before the boss did in the evening got me in trouble. Arrived two hours after him but leaving ten minutes after he left was no problem.

It wasn't the number of hours, it was the perception of working hard that mattered.
 
2012-05-06 04:14:17 PM  

One Bad Apple: Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.

Know how I can tell you are not a veteran ?


^this

96 hours straight. 18 downtime then 72 hours straight. Wash, rinse and repeat for 18 months.
 
2012-05-06 04:23:10 PM  

lokis_mentor: One Bad Apple: Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.

Know how I can tell you are not a veteran ?

^this

96 hours straight. 18 downtime then 72 hours straight. Wash, rinse and repeat for 18 months.


Well, my coworkers have yet to fark me over like that. I keep a bag packed in the trunk with clothing, food and toiletries for 3 days just in case.
 
2012-05-06 04:28:55 PM  
At my previous job, I was up for a promotion. I met with the boss in that department. She first say "This is a salaried position. Is that okay?" I said, "So, if things are slow, I can just go home early and not have to worry about a smaller paycheck that week?"

She said "Actually, no. This position is quite busy, requires at least 45 hours a week, and most employees in this department work more than 60 hours, not counting weekends and time spent on company issued laptops working from home."

I asked, "So, how much time do people work, roughly?"

She answered "Probably 80 to 100 hours a week."

I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."

She gave me this look, and said "Well...this is a very important position."

I said, "If it really was that important, there would be more people here so you're not having to be so over worked."

She started to say something, and I stood up and said "Look, I'm not going to be a good person for this job. If you're going to pay me a salary based on 40 hours, I am working only 40 hours. You want someone dumb enough to think that working 90 hours and getting paid for 40 is a great deal. I'm not that stupid."

They found someone. I talked to that person one day, telling them that I interviewed for that job and didn't get it. I asked him how many hours he was working. He said on a good week, only 70. I asked how much that position paid, and he told me, bragging about it because he got the job and I did not. I figured it out and found that he wasn't even making minimum wage when figured in the hours he actually worked against his weekly salary.

Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumbass to take the position. My sister works 80 hours as a store manager for Claires. She's expected to work 80 hours. She only gets salary, no bonuses, no commission, nothing. She is poor. In deep debt, living paycheck to paycheck barely making it. She would get a part time job, but when working 80 hours, there isn't any time to get a part time job. Yeah, Claires owns her.
 
2012-05-06 04:32:56 PM  

Great Janitor: At my previous job, I was up for a promotion. I met with the boss in that department. She first say "This is a salaried position. Is that okay?" I said, "So, if things are slow, I can just go home early and not have to worry about a smaller paycheck that week?"

She said "Actually, no. This position is quite busy, requires at least 45 hours a week, and most employees in this department work more than 60 hours, not counting weekends and time spent on company issued laptops working from home."

I asked, "So, how much time do people work, roughly?"

She answered "Probably 80 to 100 hours a week."

I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."

She gave me this look, and said "Well...this is a very important position."

I said, "If it really was that important, there would be more people here so you're not having to be so over worked."

She started to say something, and I stood up and said "Look, I'm not going to be a good person for this job. If you're going to pay me a salary based on 40 hours, I am working only 40 hours. You want someone dumb enough to think that working 90 hours and getting paid for 40 is a great deal. I'm not that stupid."

They found someone. I talked to that person one day, telling them that I interviewed for that job and didn't get it. I asked him how many hours he was working. He said on a good week, only 70. I asked how much that position paid, and he told me, bragging about it because he got the job and I did not. I figured it out and found that he wasn't even making minimum wage when figured in the hours he actually worked against his weekly salary.

Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumba ...


And yet I get abused when I suggest that the laws should be changed to require everyone be paid hourly. That the entire idea of exempt and non-exempt is unfair and has led to rampant abuse by corporations, especially in the IT area.
 
2012-05-06 04:38:32 PM  
Once you get past entry level, the lines quickly blur in regards to time off.

Always on is the new norm.
 
2012-05-06 04:40:26 PM  

tomWright: Great Janitor: At my previous job, I was up for a promotion. I met with the boss in that department. She first say "This is a salaried position. Is that okay?" I said, "So, if things are slow, I can just go home early and not have to worry about a smaller paycheck that week?"

She said "Actually, no. This position is quite busy, requires at least 45 hours a week, and most employees in this department work more than 60 hours, not counting weekends and time spent on company issued laptops working from home."

I asked, "So, how much time do people work, roughly?"

She answered "Probably 80 to 100 hours a week."

I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."

She gave me this look, and said "Well...this is a very important position."

I said, "If it really was that important, there would be more people here so you're not having to be so over worked."

She started to say something, and I stood up and said "Look, I'm not going to be a good person for this job. If you're going to pay me a salary based on 40 hours, I am working only 40 hours. You want someone dumb enough to think that working 90 hours and getting paid for 40 is a great deal. I'm not that stupid."

They found someone. I talked to that person one day, telling them that I interviewed for that job and didn't get it. I asked him how many hours he was working. He said on a good week, only 70. I asked how much that position paid, and he told me, bragging about it because he got the job and I did not. I figured it out and found that he wasn't even making minimum wage when figured in the hours he actually worked against his weekly salary.

Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find s ...


I have a very technical background. People get surprised when I tell them that I've never worked an IT job. When they get amazed by that fact, I tell them "I refuse to work salary, so I've never worked an IT job."

I don't feel sorry for those who take salary jobs and then get abused by their corporate masters. They willingly took that job, knowing exactly what they were getting themselves into. It's not like anyone ever put a gun to the backs of their head and said "You will take this salaried position."
 
2012-05-06 04:40:35 PM  
How can I be smug about being being the 53% if I can't work more than 70 hours a week while barely getting by but you don't see me complaining about it?
 
2012-05-06 04:44:34 PM  

Great Janitor: Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumbass to take the position. My sister works 80 hours as a store manager for Claires. She's expected to work 80 hours. She only gets salary, no bonuses, no commission, nothing. She is poor. In deep debt, living paycheck to paycheck barely making it. She would get a part time job, but when working 80 hours, there isn't any time to get a part time job. Yeah, Claires owns her.


It's not just that. Try getting two minimum wage jobs. Both will expect you to be available 100% of the time, think nothing of consistent scheduling, and often expect you to stick around after your allotted time because 'things need to get done'. It's criminal.
 
2012-05-06 04:46:01 PM  

Great Janitor: I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."


Ding ding, and just think, it's also screwing out the extra person that should have a job doing those extra hours and is currently unemployed.

I don't mind busting my arse once in a while to squeeze out a project but not when it becomes expected every week.

A favor repeated often enough becomes an obligation, which leads to resentment.
 
2012-05-06 04:46:51 PM  
I have a salary position that gets paid overtime. Yay me! If I work less than forty I still get paid if I work more, I get more.
 
2012-05-06 04:54:40 PM  
Occasionally putting in 60 hours? Not a big deal. On a regular basis? Time to hire someone else.
 
2012-05-06 05:00:44 PM  
I love 60 hr weeks since I'm a consultant and bill hourly. I do feel bad for the salaried employees I work with at clients. They are universally getting screwed.
 
2012-05-06 05:09:27 PM  

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: I love 60 hr weeks since I'm a consultant and bill hourly. I do feel bad for the salaried employees I work with at clients. They are universally getting screwed.


Yeah, pretty much this. I spent many years in management, working 60-70 hour weeks, always on call, always having to not only perform skilled work but deal with the headaches of managing people. I gave all that up and resigned this year, went into contract work. I have never had so little stress in my life. I go in, have specific tasks to do, and I leave when I want. If I only feel like working 6 hours that day, that's fine, I just don't get paid and if I work a 60, I get paid for every hour.

/I'm going to end up making more money than when I was in management too, which is kind of humorous.
 
2012-05-06 05:13:52 PM  
Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.
 
2012-05-06 05:14:45 PM  
I get paid hourly as well as commission. So basically I go home when we close every day and if I'm staying late it's because I'm finishing a sale and I'll be making more both in the wage and the commission I know I'll be getting from the sale. Not a bad gig.
 
2012-05-06 05:15:36 PM  

Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.


It is written directly in the federal exempt statute. IT workers are one of the few that are specifically targeted.
 
2012-05-06 05:22:52 PM  

tomWright: Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.

It is written directly in the federal exempt statute. IT workers are one of the few that are specifically targeted.


PDF warning: Fact Sheet #17A: Exemption for Executive, Administrative, Professional, Computer & Outside Sales Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

"Computer Employee Exemption
To qualify for the computer employee exemption, the following tests must be met:
• The employee must be compensated either on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a
rate not less than $455 per week or, if compensated on an hourly basis, at a rate not less than $27.63 an
hour;
• The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software
engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below;
• The employee's primary duty must consist of:
1) The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to
determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
2) The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer
systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design
specifications;
3) The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to
machine operating systems; or
4) A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of
skills."
 
2012-05-06 05:23:46 PM  
Oops, forgot to paste the link:

Link
 
2012-05-06 05:28:23 PM  

tomWright: Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.

It is written directly in the federal exempt statute. IT workers are one of the few that are specifically targeted.


Why are they specifically targeted? I can't find any explanation on Google. What about their work makes them different?

It sounds like from reading the law, the intent is to exclude employees that perform high level professional functions where there is no nice professional classification (such as an engineering license) to classify them as such. Maybe this made sense 30 years ago, but today you'd be hard pressed to find someone with the title "computer programmer" who exercises any real authority in a company.
 
2012-05-06 05:35:30 PM  

lokis_mentor: One Bad Apple: Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.

Know how I can tell you are not a veteran ?

^this

96 hours straight. 18 downtime then 72 hours straight. Wash, rinse and repeat for 18 months.


You know how I can tell none of you are mothers? 24/7/365 -- no time off and no pay
 
2012-05-06 05:35:36 PM  

Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?


I just got an offer for a fish-canning job in Alaska. 16-hour days, seven days a week for six weeks, and 100-hour weeks are fairly common. I don't think that's going to happen.
 
2012-05-06 05:50:21 PM  

buckler: Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?

I just got an offer for a fish-canning job in Alaska. 16-hour days, seven days a week for six weeks, and 100-hour weeks are fairly common. I don't think that's going to happen.


Hey that's the sort of gig you take when you just need a reason to get away, I'd think.
 
2012-05-06 05:52:38 PM  
I just turned down a job that required 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, and traveling around the country far from my loved ones. Even though it paid an obscene amount of money, I knew I couldn't do that. No way. No how. And besides, I LIKE being able to spend time with my family.

I'll stick with my low-paid, 5-day-per-week job. Thanks. The money is intriguing, but if I'm unable to have any time to myself or with my family, what's the point of having a crapload of money? Working that much, I might as well be dead.

I work to be with those I love, not to be without them.
 
2012-05-06 05:57:23 PM  

dumbobruni: Corporate Self: Its does some people good.

Corporate profits and cash reserves are actually pretty high at the moment.

and since Obama is in office, that's entirely his fault amirite?


Can we for once not talk about Obama?

I swear he's the new Godwin
 
2012-05-06 06:06:01 PM  

Hot Lunch: buckler: Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?

I just got an offer for a fish-canning job in Alaska. 16-hour days, seven days a week for six weeks, and 100-hour weeks are fairly common. I don't think that's going to happen.

Hey that's the sort of gig you take when you just need a reason to get away, I'd think.


Yeah. Maybe if I were 20 again.
 
2012-05-06 06:08:27 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I just turned down a job that required 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, and traveling around the country far from my loved ones. Even though it paid an obscene amount of money, I knew I couldn't do that. No way. No how. And besides, I LIKE being able to spend time with my family.


This. I work at a university, 35 hours/week, five weeks vacation. I make ~10% less than I could with my job title in the corporate world, but I don't care.
 
2012-05-06 06:29:29 PM  
If I only worked 40 hours a week, I'd have to get a second job to make up for the lost income.
 
2012-05-06 06:33:29 PM  
60 hour weeks, good lord I can't even fathom how people that do that live with themselves unless they're just doing it temporarily for insane money. You gotta be on coke in my opinion.

Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.


Because they don't have any balls, that's why.
 
2012-05-06 06:38:41 PM  
Work 30 - get paid for 50. That's the ticket!

/Actual ticket is work = 0, get 6 figure check. THAT'S the ticket.
 
2012-05-06 06:43:00 PM  
This.

I'm a shift supervisor working an average 55-60 hour week, weekends not guaranteed (if you want a Saturday or Sunday off you have to request it 2 weeks ahead of time) in a sheet metal building where the average temperature over the last few weeks has been in the high 90s. We get 1 10 minute break at 10, a half hour lunch, then another 10 minutes at 2pm - but even if we work till 830 or 9, we ain't getting any more breaks. The leadership is obsessed with the goal of putting out 40 tons of product a day, but it usually takes us about 12 hours to get there. OTOH if we changed our scheduling practices (for us, a schedule is a sad, pathetic joke) we should be doing it every day and finishing up around 9-10 hours - but the leadership won't do it because if they changed things they might reveal themselves to be flawed and therefore mortal.
While I'm doing all this, my house is falling apart because I can't work on it, my wife's health is becoming more and more problematic (she's waiting for an SSI disability hearing), my own health requires looking after, and the leadership says well, I'd just better suck it up. No problem guys. Tomorrow morning I'll be putting in an app at the local factory of a Fortune 500 company, where if I'm accepted on the bottom rung I'll be making more than I am as a supervisor with 4 years in the job. I'll be working fewer hours and making more money.

And when I tell my supervisors that I'm leaving, they will be genuinely and personally hurt that I am abandoning them because they rely on me to do the jobs they don't trust the OTHER FOUR SUPERVISORS to do.

Tough. Make all the people whose jobs I'm doing for them step up to the plate. I've had it with that farking asylum.
 
2012-05-06 06:55:41 PM  
I'm an IT employee. Salaried. I work minimum 45 and I don't allow myself to work more than 50 in a week, unless it is a major happening (go-live, system update that takes team support). I'm on-call 24x7 approximately once every 6 weeks.

I'm all about being a team player, but 50 hours is the upper limit that I'm willing to give at my current pay grade. Now there are people that stick around an extra hour or more than I do every day, but the way I see it is I hustle my butt off during the day at the office so i *don't* have to feel obligated to do that sort of thing. You can't let your job dominate your life, unless you don't have anything else to live for.
 
2012-05-06 07:07:28 PM  
I'm starting a new job in July as a software developer. All the places I interviewed with claimed to greatly support a good work life balance, with 40 hour weeks as the norm and necessary overtime compensated. The place I chose has 40 hour weeks with time and a half overtime. The recruiter claims most people opt for 45 hour weeks just to make the extra cash.
 
2012-05-06 07:12:16 PM  

weave: An observation of mine after many a years with a flexible schedule. If you come in 30 minutes after everyone else but end up working many hours after everyone else leaves, you're thought of as a slacker. But if you come in half-hour earlier than everyone and drop whatever you're working on at the time to leave at normal time, you're considered a go-getter.


Not sure where you wprk, but that hasn't been the case anywhere I've worked. If you're dedicated to leaving at 5 when there's still work to be done every employer I have worked for would consider you lazy.

/unless you're a mom
//then they always say it's because of the kids
 
2012-05-06 07:15:25 PM  

Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.


I don't know either. I've had that conversation with my boss before a couple of years ago - if you want me to continue working over forty hours then I want to be classified as hourly wage.

He laughed at me and told me it doesn't work that way, so I handed him my notice right then and there to become a consultant.

/i get paid a lot more now, even after factoring in insurance and PTO
//you only get paid what you negotiate for
 
2012-05-06 07:16:21 PM  

Donnchadha:


You know how I can tell none of you are mothers?


Because I can parallel park ?
 
2012-05-06 07:21:52 PM  
no rig hands in this thread eh

/makes me think of eric church's whiney song about 40 hour work week and having to get drunk to cope
//65-75 hour week
///21/3 rotation
 
2012-05-06 07:39:57 PM  

weave: An observation of mine after many a years with a flexible schedule. If you come in 30 minutes after everyone else but end up working many hours after everyone else leaves, you're thought of as a slacker. But if you come in half-hour earlier than everyone and drop whatever you're working on at the time to leave at normal time, you're considered a go-getter.

In other words, it pisses me off because if I'm on a roll, productivity-wise, I'd rather keep the flow going and work very late. By the time I get home and to bed it's like midnight, so give me a break for being a wee bit late the next day, idiots.


This is why I went self employed. fark what other people think... most of them are morons.
 
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