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(Newser)   It's time to end the 60 hour work week. It really doesn't do anybody any good   (newser.com) divider line 146
    More: Interesting, Ford Motor Company, child labor laws  
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6851 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 May 2012 at 3:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 02:49:49 AM

douchebag/hater: The 'I work 60/70/even80 hours a week is one of the bigger lies told these days.

If you are working 60 hrs/week you are working 5 12 hour days or 6 10 hour days or 7 8+ hour days per week.

If you are working 70 hrs/week you are working 5 14 hour days or 6 11+ hour days or 7 ten hour days.

What bullshiate. No one except possibly those guys in NDak are working those kind of hours.

I won't even bother with the azzhats that claim to work 80 hours per week.


At my last job I worked normal-ish hours during the off season, but from May to October I generally worked 6:30am-9pm Monday to Friday, 8-6 on Saturdays, and a few hours on Sunday if necessary. When the two managers immediately above me were downsized and I was offered the "exciting opportunity" to do most of their work as well, I left.
 
2012-05-07 02:59:11 AM
What a lot of people are missing here is that more then 40 HURTS the company. I've seen a recent demonstration.

So I work at a software company, and deal with QA and Engineering/ I get to watch this. Prior-40 hr work week with flexible start/end times. Team had a couple slackers, a couple performers, and a bunch of average folks. Good management might have fired a few people and made some big differences...but they don't like firing people.

1st change: start and end times mandated. People are annoyed, and a lot of folks ignore it. Mostly the average folks. The slackers....tended to show up, and the performers did too.

2nd change: 50 hr work week mandated....Oh holy mother of god. At first it was fine...but now the defect counts risen like you would not believe. We've lost 20% of our people in the last 6 months, with 2/3 of them being the good people (and we didnt have a ton of really good people!), and the rest split pretty evenly. 75% of the people I talk to have told me they are applying elsewhere. Day after tomorrow we lose someone else that's been putting in 70's because they don't know how to say no. Lost another due to short term disability that cries when he talks about coming back to work. He is not coming back. Both of those were great employees. We're so farked.

In the meantime management acts like everythings fine except they think people aren't working hard enough, or we wouldn't have these problems. so they yell at people for defects and product delivery issues. Its amazing to watch. And in such a difference compared to other places I have worked. Oh and the obvious solution is to hire MORE managers....not workers....

Now here is the interesting thing. Who makes the 50+ hr work week decision? A combination of management and mid level guys. The mid level guy in question THRIVES on his 80 hr work week. He lost all of his family over it, but its what defines him totally. Give me clones of him and the work week could hit 80. Course they'd all be single and have no life worth living...but they would produce! The management guys? uhmm..yeah..they work 10+ hrs a day.....regularly. But they also don't have to do dishes, laundry, or take care of kids. they can afford for others to do that. Oh and they can take a month off or a week off whenever. They have no financial worries in their multimillion dollar homes with their golden parachutes, so really don't relate. That being said...i've interacted with them enough to know...they are pretty smart, and they generally are trying...they just don't have the relationship there. They may have at one point..but not any more.
 
2012-05-07 03:29:21 AM
I work an average of 4 hours a day, 7 days a week in real estate, so 28 hours. Most of the time I could be anywhere so long as I have a smart phone and/or internet. So most of the time I'm out of the office.

So 28 hours a week for $300k a year.

I think I can handle it.
 
2012-05-07 03:50:46 AM

El Pachuco: I work an average of 4 hours a day, 7 days a week in real estate, so 28 hours. Most of the time I could be anywhere so long as I have a smart phone and/or internet. So most of the time I'm out of the office.

So 28 hours a week for $300k a year.

I think I can handle it.


I both hate you, and am impressed by you. Nice.
 
2012-05-07 04:09:30 AM

Greywar: El Pachuco: I work an average of 4 hours a day, 7 days a week in real estate, so 28 hours. Most of the time I could be anywhere so long as I have a smart phone and/or internet. So most of the time I'm out of the office.

So 28 hours a week for $300k a year.

I think I can handle it.

I both hate you, and am impressed by you. Nice.


I seriously wish more people could do the same. The banks pay me to process short sales. Every month I get people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt at bank expense.

blog.jinbo.net

I have this tattoo on my left shoulder.
 
2012-05-07 06:15:12 AM
Our current "flex time" rules are work 40 hours per week, first 35 hours of OT is a donation to the company and any hours after that get 1.25 pay.......

Which is actually more generous than the norm around here.

/The not-so-hot part about working in Japan
//But the food is great
///and the... scenery... is great
////miniskirt season is back!
 
2012-05-07 06:46:27 AM
That'll difficult. Congressmen are workaholics.
 
2012-05-07 07:11:57 AM
The new economy is self-employment for services that people working 60+ hours a week don't have time to do. Less work and better quality of life means that millions of our nation's college educated elite dog walker, rent-a-personal-assistant, and nannies will be out of business.
 
2012-05-07 07:39:01 AM

Farty McPooPants: Fubini: tomWright: Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.

It is written directly in the federal exempt statute. IT workers are one of the few that are specifically targeted.

Why are they specifically targeted? I can't find any explanation on Google. What about their work makes them different?

It sounds like from reading the law, the intent is to exclude employees that perform high level professional functions where there is no nice professional classification (such as an engineering license) to classify them as such. Maybe this made sense 30 years ago, but today you'd be hard pressed to find someone with the title "computer programmer" who exercises any real authority in a company.

Make sure you are documenting all of your overtime. If there is an overtime request form, fill it out. If you have to submit a timecard (sometimes even exempt employees fill them out) make sure your overtime is captured. Your manager, or payroll (or AP) person can piss and moan about it all they want but no matter, do it. You can tell them it's to make sure your time is accounted for in case you are injured on the job, wherever the job may be. That is a legitimate reason for doing this but it's also to log how much OT you are performing. The BS exemption listing shown used to apply to other pseudo-engineering positions but after the above documentation was done by a large enough number of people, there was a class action lawsuit that overturned the exemption, reclassified the positions and all of the backpay was awarded. So, there is precedent. It's up to you guys. Lawyer up!


If you have any info on that case I would be interested. I am in the same boat and have always wondered why this law exists. It seems like a clear violation of the concept of equal protection under the law.

Why should IT be defined as second class when it comes to overtime protection?
 
2012-05-07 07:59:29 AM

El Pachuco: I work an average of 4 hours a day, 7 days a week in real estate, so 28 hours. Most of the time I could be anywhere so long as I have a smart phone and/or internet. So most of the time I'm out of the office.

So 28 hours a week for $300k a year.

I think I can handle it.


Real estate is a racket so this make sense.
 
2012-05-07 08:09:55 AM
The oilfield laughs at your silly office whining.
 
2012-05-07 08:30:18 AM
I'm happy with my 37.5 hour week with occasional overtime paid at time and a half. Oh, and a reasonable COLA every year on top of step progression in my salary scale. I work at a university where there's plenty of eye candy in warmer weather. The commute is only 15 minutes between home and work too.
 
2012-05-07 09:14:59 AM
when I first started my last job, 50 hour weeks were expected and if you could push it up to 60 that was really loved. I did okay, single, no life, for a while. Then I started getting burned out. At which point in time I realized that I wasn't necessarily being productive every hour of the day, I wasn't getting 10 or 12 hours worth of work done each day. I would end up "screwing around" for the first part of the day, and then kick in around 3 or 4pm and get my work done in time to go home at 8 or 9pm.

So I started cutting back on the hours, quantity of work didn't drop off, it remained the same, quality went up, and I got a life. Bonus was that I was salaried, so my hourly wage actually went up.

Now, I don't mind putting in long hours when necessary. But more than 40 in a week and there better be an emergency, an actual emergency (or big project that has short term heavy demands). And I will take comp time here or there to make up for it.
 
2012-05-07 09:23:30 AM

Galileo's Daughter: Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?

I usually work 40, but I'd love to have a schedule that lets me work additional hours on Monday or Tuesday and then leave by 12 pm or 1 pm on Friday. My company doesn't believe in overtime.


Uhhh this is a 60 hour work week that doesn't make you any more money than the 40 hour week.

Incidentally, your 40 hour week is something you really shouldn't take for granted. A lot of people would kill for it.
 
2012-05-07 10:01:09 AM
My first job when I got out of college was for a major defense contractor. The project fell way behind schedule, so management decreed that all of the engineers had to work a minimum of 50 hours per week.

This did NOT help the project catch up. In hindsight, I doubt that the management thought it would help the project catch up. It was just something they could do to make it appear to the Navy that they were "doing something" about the schedule slippage.
 
2012-05-07 10:12:48 AM

Great Janitor: Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumbass to take the ...


This made me laugh a bit. I got thrown into mainframe operations in my IT career. Mainframe Operators are hourly, not salary, a very common occurance. Most programmers in IT don't realize this, and thus, you often have mainframe operators that make more than programmers because of all the overtime pay.

In the end, the hours STILL aren't worth it. At some point, you just want to go home and enjoy time with the family.
 
2012-05-07 10:12:57 AM
I did 75 last week (12 of it driving)

50-60 is the norm for me

/salary
 
2012-05-07 10:35:15 AM
I get paid hourly, double time after 8 hours in a day. Same for weekends and holidays. Less than 8 hours between shifts whole next day is double bubble :)

/crane operator
//feet up looking at the horizon
 
2012-05-07 10:49:51 AM
I like my job, good-paying IT for a small shop but usually not much more than 40 hours a week except for the odd crunch time.

I dream of becoming a contractor/independent business owner eventually. I'm 23 right now and this is the job I got out of college... would like to save up some cash for a few years and need to do some research about how to go about doing all that.

For you contractors in the thread, how did you do it? Do you just get a couple certs, quit your job and start handing out business cards? I hope to do that sometime in the next 5 years or so but it seems like an intimidating plunge, not knowing much about it.
 
2012-05-07 10:55:08 AM

low.dose: douchebag/hater: The 'I work 60/70/even80 hours a week is one of the bigger lies told these days.

If you are working 60 hrs/week you are working 5 12 hour days or 6 10 hour days or 7 8+ hour days per week.

If you are working 70 hrs/week you are working 5 14 hour days or 6 11+ hour days or 7 ten hour days.

What bullshiate. No one except possibly those guys in NDak are working those kind of hours.

I won't even bother with the azzhats that claim to work 80 hours per week.

Don't ever become a project manager...


My record month as a contract project manager... 284 hours billed in a month (overseas project with dev team in north america. Worked 7days/week).

/not sustainable. Took 2 weeks off the following month.
 
2012-05-07 11:10:22 AM
weave: An observation of mine after many a years with a flexible schedule. If you come in 30 minutes after everyone else but end up working many hours after everyone else leaves, you're thought of as a slacker. But if you come in half-hour earlier than everyone and drop whatever you're working on at the time to leave at normal time, you're considered a go-getter.

In other words, it pisses me off because if I'm on a roll, productivity-wise, I'd rather keep the flow going and work very late. By the time I get home and to bed it's like midnight, so give me a break for being a wee bit late the next day, idiots.


bonus points: Leaving 30 min early, and never getting slack, because you have kids.

/Bad managers watch the clock
//Only metric their small brains can handle
///Keep a log of their bad habits, it'll come in handy
 
2012-05-07 11:50:58 AM
Alternate 40 hours over 3 nights one week, 52 hours over 4 nights the next.

/Salaried
 
kab
2012-05-07 12:04:56 PM
The 40 hour work week is an artifact of manual labor that just needs to go away, as most industries would do just fine shaving at least 6 hours off this.

Then again, that would be a step in the right direction towards improving quality of life for the employed, and capitalism simply isn't about that.
 
2012-05-07 12:36:29 PM

One Bad Apple: Donnchadha:


You know how I can tell none of you are mothers?

Because I can parallel park
?


i533.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-07 12:36:30 PM
Well, I've been working on the railroad all the livelong day.
 
2012-05-07 12:57:21 PM

douchebag/hater: The 'I work 60/70/even80 hours a week is one of the bigger lies told these days.

If you are working 60 hrs/week you are working 5 12 hour days or 6 10 hour days or 7 8+ hour days per week.

If you are working 70 hrs/week you are working 5 14 hour days or 6 11+ hour days or 7 ten hour days.

What bullshiate. No one except possibly those guys in NDak are working those kind of hours.

I won't even bother with the azzhats that claim to work 80 hours per week.


One more note, when I worked in operations (Data Center, Mainframe Ops, etc.) it was standard practice to have 12-hour shifts on a 3/4 alternating schedule (3 days one week, 4 days the next). When I started working for one company, it was exactly that, with occasional call-outs to cover a sick worker, so 36-48 hours a week with the occasional 60 hour or 72 hour week (6-days during a planned data-recovery exercise).

The last company I worked at in operations, I was told it was the same setup. I was on nights, 6pm to 6am. It quickly moved to call-in's and required show-up time to 6, 7 days a week. If a batch schedule ran longer than intended, or if one of my systems had problems during the night, I was required to stay until the morning status-update conference call, which started at 8am. So I was working 12-hour days 6-7 days a week, with the occasional 14/15-hour day (conference call STARTED at 8am, 2 hours after my shift). That's not counting my commuting time, just the time I was at my desk.

There are people that work those hours, and live at the job like that. It's not hard to get to 60 hours in a week.

And that's just in IT. You get into construction work during the summer, and you can find people working those insane hours easily. Your whole comment either strikes me as a troll, or someone who is inexperienced.
 
2012-05-07 01:22:06 PM
Went to an interview recently where they straight up told me 70-80 hr work weeks were expected, and that the Harvard MBA boss expected a lot from their employees. I basically told them to fark off.

Also got offered a job to fly ten days straight to different cities for work and be home four days straight. Would have been cool if I didn't have my own place and lived at home, but that schedule made it seem like it'd be easy to become very depressed.
 
2012-05-07 01:31:36 PM
What if you work 60hrs a week but 20hrs of that is now just trying to get to your job because the company moved to a "cheaper" location?
 
2012-05-07 01:41:00 PM

Great Janitor: When I was in car sales, I worked open to close six days a week, and closing took at least an hour. And that was commission, so I wasn't getting paid for what I did when closing, but it had to be done.


I remember those. At our dealership, we were on alternating schedules so we were supposed to get off at 5 on either Friday or Saturday, so we could theoretically have some kind of social or family life. The catch was, you had to sneak out because if a sales manager caught you trying to leave they would try to guilt you into staying longer.

About 3 out of 4 days off, you would have to come in for some reason or another. Forget that noise.

These days I am paid hourly + comm. I get an allotted couple hours a week for overtime, and if I come in 15-20 minutes early every day, I get to leave at 3 on fridays! It's the best of both worlds, and its amazing how much more productive people are when they get to actually enjoy their lives.
 
2012-05-07 01:44:17 PM
This is such a pathetic game...... bragging about the "hours you work".

I look at it this way. I LIKE my job (IT). I LIKE doing my job. When specifications are clearly laid out, the product is always perfect.

I HATE pretending to work; people who brag about how many hours they work; spending the day BSing and calling it "work".

I work when I have work and am fortunate enough to be able to not work (most times) when I don't. Salary works for me.
 
2012-05-07 02:38:57 PM
I know its been said in this thread, specifically of IT workers, that your skills are in demand. Go talk to a recruiter / head hunter if you're miserable at work.

I'm good at what I do, I love it, but I hated who I did it for. I was so fed up with it my production started slipping and I was constantly biatching about my boss. Talked to a recruiter, and two weeks later had a job offer with a much better environment making a bunch more money.
 
2012-05-07 06:29:42 PM

Electromax: I like my job, good-paying IT for a small shop but usually not much more than 40 hours a week except for the odd crunch time.

I dream of becoming a contractor/independent business owner eventually. I'm 23 right now and this is the job I got out of college... would like to save up some cash for a few years and need to do some research about how to go about doing all that.

For you contractors in the thread, how did you do it? Do you just get a couple certs, quit your job and start handing out business cards? I hope to do that sometime in the next 5 years or so but it seems like an intimidating plunge, not knowing much about it.


First, you need to be able to communicate, and communicate well. Written and oral. You have to be able to talk intelligently about your craft to technical people, but also be able to understand the user's languages, so brushing up on business or getting a MBA isn't a bad route to take.

Second, you need to network your arse off. Make friends with other contractors, make friends with people in regional businesses. Go to user groups, networking events, not with an agenda, just get to know people, spend time listening to them, find out their challenges, give some free advice.

Third, if you get your certs, get a training cert as well. Then go to those user groups and start speaking. That goes a long way towards identifying potential clients, because people will start seeking you out for advice.

Fourth, start moonlighting. Small jobs, little support contracts, gain a reputation for quality. When you start getting more work than you can handle... quit your day job.

Of course, depending on your skill level and your region, you could just quit and go for it. IT is pretty hot in most places and will be for the near to mid term.
 
2012-05-07 06:37:27 PM

Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.



we call that Freedom
 
2012-05-07 06:38:20 PM

lokis_mentor: One Bad Apple: Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.

Know how I can tell you are not a veteran ?

^this

96 hours straight. 18 downtime then 72 hours straight. Wash, rinse and repeat for 18 months.



nothing like being a slave.
 
2012-05-07 06:40:40 PM

Great Janitor: At my previous job, I was up for a promotion. I met with the boss in that department. She first say "This is a salaried position. Is that okay?" I said, "So, if things are slow, I can just go home early and not have to worry about a smaller paycheck that week?"

She said "Actually, no. This position is quite busy, requires at least 45 hours a week, and most employees in this department work more than 60 hours, not counting weekends and time spent on company issued laptops working from home."

I asked, "So, how much time do people work, roughly?"

She answered "Probably 80 to 100 hours a week."

I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."

She gave me this look, and said "Well...this is a very important position."

I said, "If it really was that important, there would be more people here so you're not having to be so over worked."

She started to say something, and I stood up and said "Look, I'm not going to be a good person for this job. If you're going to pay me a salary based on 40 hours, I am working only 40 hours. You want someone dumb enough to think that working 90 hours and getting paid for 40 is a great deal. I'm not that stupid."

They found someone. I talked to that person one day, telling them that I interviewed for that job and didn't get it. I asked him how many hours he was working. He said on a good week, only 70. I asked how much that position paid, and he told me, bragging about it because he got the job and I did not. I figured it out and found that he wasn't even making minimum wage when figured in the hours he actually worked against his weekly salary.

Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumba ...



they call that Freedom. lol salary can be good, but it can also Gimp you so be carefull.
 
2012-05-07 06:42:04 PM

Great Janitor: At my previous job, I was up for a promotion. I met with the boss in that department. She first say "This is a salaried position. Is that okay?" I said, "So, if things are slow, I can just go home early and not have to worry about a smaller paycheck that week?"

She said "Actually, no. This position is quite busy, requires at least 45 hours a week, and most employees in this department work more than 60 hours, not counting weekends and time spent on company issued laptops working from home."

I asked, "So, how much time do people work, roughly?"

She answered "Probably 80 to 100 hours a week."

I said, "So basically, I spend my time in this position working, eating and sleeping, with very little time spent with my wife, and in return, I get paid only for the first 40 hours that I work. The other 40 to 60 hours that I work is for free."

She gave me this look, and said "Well...this is a very important position."

I said, "If it really was that important, there would be more people here so you're not having to be so over worked."

She started to say something, and I stood up and said "Look, I'm not going to be a good person for this job. If you're going to pay me a salary based on 40 hours, I am working only 40 hours. You want someone dumb enough to think that working 90 hours and getting paid for 40 is a great deal. I'm not that stupid."

They found someone. I talked to that person one day, telling them that I interviewed for that job and didn't get it. I asked him how many hours he was working. He said on a good week, only 70. I asked how much that position paid, and he told me, bragging about it because he got the job and I did not. I figured it out and found that he wasn't even making minimum wage when figured in the hours he actually worked against his weekly salary.

Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumba ...



that poor sap who got the job doesn't have enough time to jerk off. don't worry, he'll realise his mistake in a few weeks.
 
2012-05-07 06:43:02 PM

Icey_M: Once you get past entry level, the lines quickly blur in regards to time off.

Always on is the new norm.


ain't Freedom great!
 
2012-05-07 06:44:06 PM

Corporate Self: Its does some people good.

Corporate profits and cash reserves are actually pretty high at the moment.



and worker morale is pretty low.
 
2012-05-07 06:44:16 PM

Linux_Yes:

nothing like being a slave.


Slavery tends to be a permanent gig. Indentured servitude has an expiration date.

/Plus you are being paid
 
2012-05-07 06:44:57 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Great Janitor: Salary pay is the best form of corporate slavery around. Pay you a flat pay, work you as many hours as they want, and if you can't work those hours, fire you and find some other dumbass to take the position. My sister works 80 hours as a store manager for Claires. She's expected to work 80 hours. She only gets salary, no bonuses, no commission, nothing. She is poor. In deep debt, living paycheck to paycheck barely making it. She would get a part time job, but when working 80 hours, there isn't any time to get a part time job. Yeah, Claires owns her.

It's not just that. Try getting two minimum wage jobs. Both will expect you to be available 100% of the time, think nothing of consistent scheduling, and often expect you to stick around after your allotted time because 'things need to get done'. It's criminal.




America is Criminal. just ask its Owners.
 
2012-05-07 06:47:10 PM

tomWright: tomWright: Fubini: Why do IT people allow themselves to be classified as exempt? That's an honest question, I don't know. I though that exempt employees were generally those in supervisory positions, or those generally exercising discretion about company activities and policies.

I've met IT people who spend 90% of their time doing grunt work, and yet they're still classified as exempt.

It is written directly in the federal exempt statute. IT workers are one of the few that are specifically targeted.

PDF warning: Fact Sheet #17A: Exemption for Executive, Administrative, Professional, Computer & Outside Sales Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

"Computer Employee Exemption
To qualify for the computer employee exemption, the following tests must be met:
• The employee must be compensated either on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a
rate not less than $455 per week or, if compensated on an hourly basis, at a rate not less than $27.63 an
hour;
• The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software
engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below;
• The employee's primary duty must consist of:
1) The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to
determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
2) The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer
systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design
specifications;
3) The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to
machine operating systems; or
4) A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of
skills."



god i love Freedom.
 
2012-05-07 06:48:47 PM

buckler: Walker: There's a 60-hour work week?

I just got an offer for a fish-canning job in Alaska. 16-hour days, seven days a week for six weeks, and 100-hour weeks are fairly common. I don't think that's going to happen.




all those Fish represent Freedom. lol
 
2012-05-07 06:51:57 PM
Wow you REALLY regret missing this thread yesterday, huh ?
 
2012-05-07 06:57:07 PM

One Bad Apple: Wow you REALLY regret missing this thread yesterday, huh ?



yes i do. but i got my Freedom back TODAY!!
 
2012-05-08 02:20:14 AM
What ive realized is that no one knows how many hours you work. or if they do, they dont care. your 60 hour work week is appreciated very little, and it says something about you if you allow that to happen.

It actually SCREAMS something about you, and THAT is something your employer notices. If you dont respect your personal life, why would they respect it for you?
 
2012-05-08 02:20:01 PM

Saberus Terras: hej: subby must not be in IT.

^This.

Try working twelve hour shifts for ten days straight.


That's why I audit IT, not do it. Used to, was on call all the time. Now I tell you how to fix your systems, and you work the extra hours :)
 
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