Just give them a bunch of fire water and it will shut them up.

And of course, I mean the people at the UN.

Seen some pretty smart people MAKE IT.

goddamnitsomuch

The Sioux came from Minnesota. They stole that land from the Absoroka (Crow) nation in the 1820s. They have no greater "ancestral" claim than the United State does. Less in fact. We have occupied it for nearly three times longer than they did. Fark 'em.

Eh, the Indians get treated a lot better than a lot of other losers to the avarice of federal government expansion. Just look at how the union treated the south after subjugating them in the war of northern aggression.

Sounds like the UN is trying to get an easy fluff on their Prestige with a forced revocation, and needs to manufacture a Casus Belli to avoid the stability/infamy hit.

// obscure?

All they wanted is that Mayan(?) temple made out of gold.

/Not obscure

I'm wildly liberal, but once you're conquered, it's best to just accept it. This applies to Native Americans, the "South," WWII losers and everyone else. I'm not saying I approve of 100 percent of what has been done to you in the name of freedom. Just that once you're in a headlock, it's best to act as though you are the headlockee and not as if you are the headlocker.

You can punch them in the balls later, when they loosen their grip. But the solution is not to act hard when they can clearly pummel you at will.

JRoo: Why not give it to them?

Most white people are going to leave for space as soon as we get the technology anyway.

Well then they can have it back then.

People lose land when they are conquered. It's been that way throughout time. If you want it back, take it back. That's how the world turns.

Coelacanth: Add a Native American face up there.

They're working on adding a Crazy Horse monument 17 miles away.

Link

But then why stop with Mt.Rushmore? Why not make the claim to give the entire country back? I made my high school history blow a fuse after he gave lecture on how the Soviet annexation of the Baltic states we're illegal because they weren't recognized by the United Nations, when I asked him how many of the "treaties" handing everything over from the Indians to the US Government were ratified by the UN.

I'm sure this thread will soon be packed with numerous examples of countries being stolen over history, all claims more or less ending up equally valid or invalid, depending on which stance you want to take. But the point is that they're all equally valid or invalid. You don't get to pick & choose the one's that just happen to benefit you the most and then vilify all the others as being "immoral." Either conquest/annexation/assimilation/whatever you want to call it is okay for everyone and we can drop the issue, or it's not okay for everyone and we can start going through the history books and reshuffling all the maps back to the way they were in... oh crap, now we've brought dates into it. What date are settling on, guys? Are we splitting up Britain into England & Scotland? Are we splitting Wales off from England? Are we giving Portugal back to Spain? Giving Bangladesh & Pakistan back to India? Breaking Manchuria off from China? Splitting Vietnam back in two? Turning Germany back into the Holy Roman Empire? Selling Alaska back to Russia? Giving Texas back to Mexico (they once owned?

Maybe some people want to open this can of worms, but frankly I'd rather just move on and think about the future, not the past. What's done is done. We can't spend our lives trying to fix the mistakes of the past. We can only promise ouorselves not to repeat them again.

Amper: Sounds like the UN is trying to get an easy fluff on their Prestige with a forced revocation, and needs to manufacture a Casus Belli to avoid the stability/infamy hit.

// obscure?

Obscure? Hardly. But would you prefer something along these lines?



Or something a bit closer to this?

JRoo: Why not give it to them?

Most white people are going to leave for space as soon as we get the technology anyway.

The Rapture?

Dear UN Dickweed

Pay your parking fines then get the fark out.

Sincerly
US

P.S. Indians lost, we won. Get over it!

All I can say about Mt. Rushmore is that like the Statue of Liberty it is much smaller in real life than it is in the movies. A tad underwhelming, but still pretty cool.

MacWizard: Coelacanth: Add a Native American face up there.

They're working on adding a Crazy Horse monument 17 miles away.

Link

You forgot the quotation marks around "working".

Link 2: Electric Wrath of Khan

Oh, the UN is impotently stamping its feet and demanding to be treated as relevant again? How cute...

NephilimNexus: But then why stop with Mt.Rushmore? Why not make the claim to give the entire country back? I made my high school history blow a fuse after he gave lecture on how the Soviet annexation of the Baltic states we're illegal because they weren't recognized by the United Nations, when I asked him how many of the "treaties" handing everything over from the Indians to the US Government were ratified by the UN.

I'm sure this thread will soon be packed with numerous examples of countries being stolen over history, all claims more or less ending up equally valid or invalid, depending on which stance you want to take. But the point is that they're all equally valid or invalid. You don't get to pick & choose the one's that just happen to benefit you the most and then vilify all the others as being "immoral." Either conquest/annexation/assimilation/whatever you want to call it is okay for everyone and we can drop the issue, or it's not okay for everyone and we can start going through the history books and reshuffling all the maps back to the way they were in... oh crap, now we've brought dates into it. What date are settling on, guys? Are we splitting up Britain into England & Scotland? Are we splitting Wales off from England? Are we giving Portugal back to Spain? Giving Bangladesh & Pakistan back to India? Breaking Manchuria off from China? Splitting Vietnam back in two? Turning Germany back into the Holy Roman Empire? Selling Alaska back to Russia? Giving Texas back to Mexico (they once owned?

Maybe some people want to open this can of worms, but frankly I'd rather just move on and think about the future, not the past. What's done is done. We can't spend our lives trying to fix the mistakes of the past. We can only promise ouorselves not to repeat them again.

Give Pangaea back to... umm... the Pangaeans!

TheHappyCanadian: LordJiro: Who the fark cares who owns the land on paper? I find it highly unlikely that the local tribe will do anything to Mount freaking Rushmore. Indians like tourist cash as much as anyone.

three words: "Mount Rushmore Casino"

Might as well. The site's already been turned into the National Parks equivalent of the world's biggest ball of string. Between the 3- to 4-story parking structure, and the ridiculous overkill of granite archways and flags distracting from the sculpture, a casino genuinely couldn't be any worse.






Also, I would like to live in a nation that has enough honor to stand by its treaties. This isn't a "sins of the father" issue. This is an "honoring our agreements" issue. It's a "The United States government isn't above the law just because America-fark-ya!" issue. There's probably too much nitty gritty detail and water under the bridge to realistically expect the US to hand over the lands it violated its own agreements to claim. But people getting their shorts in a bunch because the UN has toothlessly recommended the US abide by its own treaties? Those are the kinds of people who think country is more important than right and wrong.

Gah,

We should have taken a lesson from the Chinese. When they conquered a people, they wiped out every man, woman and child. In this way, there was no eventual uprising and reclamation of taken territory.

The Aboriginal people need to understand that they are a defeated people. Everything they have is a gift, from the land we let them have, to their very lives.

If they want their mountain back, they need to stop smoking mighty peacepipe in Grandmothers house, and break out the tools of revolution and start a new civil war to take back "their" lands. If they are not willing to fight, kill, and die for their territory, then they do not have a right to claim it is theirs.

Personally, I think when they saw those first ships sailing towards the shore so many years ago, they should have slit the throats of every person who set boots in the sand.

Oznog: Al Khazneh at Petra in Jordan (showed up in the first Indiana Jones movie).

That's actually the third movie. In release order, the Indiana Jones movies are Radiers of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom (actually a prequel), The Last Crusade, and The One that Shalt Not Be Mentioned.

cman: What is the right thing to do in this situation?

Having been to mount Rushmore I'd say, burn all the sleazy hotels, nasty restaurants, and souvenir shops to the ground, tear down the buildings the park service put in and plow under the five acre parking lot.

I'd say then give it back to the Indians, but they'd just build an ugly Casino.

In general George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln don't need a farking monument in their honor, the farking United States is their farking monument.

MacWizard...........the crazy horse thingy is being done by a polish mad man....but now he is dead and someone else has found a way to make a living carving a perfectly good rock into a spectacle.

Only monuments Indians want are casinos and cigarette stands.

NephilimNexus: But then why stop with Mt.Rushmore? Why not make the claim to give the entire country back?

Did the US ever sign a treaty giving the American Indians ownership of the entire country? If not, your question isn't relevant.

Again, this isn't a matter of who conquered whom. The issues at hand came after the conquering. The US signed treaties with American Indian tribes and did not honor them.

The sources are a joke. Any legit source for this?

And we send millions of our dollars to the UN for WHAT reason now?

Mr. UN guy. Please feel free to try to come there and force the issue. Make sure to wear one of those nice blue berets. They make such nice targets. Who was it that said, "a rifle behind every blade of grass"?. Oh, and Mr. Canadian, feel free to call in sick that day, we like you and would feel bad about putting unnecessary holes in your head.

Wolf892: If they want their mountain back, they need to stop smoking mighty peacepipe i

No, what they need to do is to spin commonly held stereotypes into something awesome.

"There are two things I know about white people: they love Matchbox 20, and they are terrified of curses".

JPINFV: Oznog: Al Khazneh at Petra in Jordan (showed up in the first Indiana Jones movie).

That's actually the third movie. In release order, the Indiana Jones movies are Radiers of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom (actually a prequel), The Last Crusade, and The One that Shalt Not Be Mentioned.

I use the mnemonic NINJA to remember, for Nazis, INdia, Jesus, Aliens.

HotWingAgenda: In that case, I demand the English and their descendants get the fark out of Ireland. Those 'snakes' that Padraig vanquished from Eire were my damn druid ancestors...

There's just one slight problem with that (I mean, aside from claiming the druid's as ancestors)...

WhippingBoy: ...

I call the highlands of Scotland. "Clearances" my ass.

... and there it is. See, if we're playing this game, all the descendents of the Scotti have to fark off back to Ireland.

I'm sure that it will work out fine.

/Last one back to East Africa's a rotten egg.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Rescind sovereign nation status. Then the Indians would be just plain American citizens and they'd own as much of Mt. Rushmore as any of us

/problem solved

===========================

Well, the whole idea of Indian Nations being sovereign is a misnomer at best anyway. If they were truly sovereign nations, then they wouldn't be subject to federal law. They are however, and as such the "sovereign" part is little more than lip-service.

Just disband the U.N. They're completely useless, just like the League of Nations before them. Step one: The U.S. leaves. Step Two: The U.S. evicts them from that nice building in New York. Step Thee: The U.N. disbands while bickering about where to set up shop next.

filter: The sources are a joke. Any legit source for this?

It's legit.


Still quite stupid, however. There's a reason the concept of a statute of limitations exists- modern society cannot account for every past wrong. Yes, bad shiat happened. Get over it and try to move forward. Whining about how they took desert land you consider sacred is not how you move forward, it's how you wind up with people moving into land some of their ancestors occupied 2000 years before, displacing the existing residents with armed force and destabilizing a region.

How about focusing on how you can improve the lives for your people now instead of how you were wronged 150 years ago? There are a lot of problems on those reservations, how about trying to deal with those rather than focusing on some stupid crusade you know will get exactly nowhere?

Weaver95: cman: Weaver95: cman: This whole situation is disheartening.

What is the right thing to do in this situation?

well...we could stop screwing over the native american indian tribes.

Should the sins of the father be placed upon the son?

I know, its not so simple. There is just no way for anyone to win this.

no, we're still screwing the indians out of money we owe 'em. the BIA is an incredibly corrupt organization that STILL can't account for a couple/few billion dollars that should have gone to the tribal councils. we really need to stop screwing over the native tribes. the way we've pissed all over 'em is a continuing disgrace.

I personally had about a $2,000 check from the US gov't (after some mismanagement of tribal funds and resources came to light) that was stolen out of the mail from me shortly after I turned 18.

By the time I learned about it, I was told "Too bad, statue of limitations has passed. Also, someone cashed your check already."

At no time, as $2,000 not been a lot of money to me.

/not a cool story
//but just pointing out, they're not all "sins of the father to the son" issues.
///I have now asked my mom to tell me any time we that are supposed to be receiving money through the mail, so I can check up on it.
//off rez

The UN can suck my bleeding hemroids while I'm having a bout of explosive diariah. That damn building ought to be bull dozed into the east river.

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: HotWingAgenda: In that case, I demand the English and their descendants get the fark out of Ireland. Those 'snakes' that Padraig vanquished from Eire were my damn druid ancestors...

There's just one slight problem with that (I mean, aside from claiming the druid's as ancestors)...

WhippingBoy: ...

I call the highlands of Scotland. "Clearances" my ass.

... and there it is. See, if we're playing this game, all the descendents of the Scotti have to fark off back to Ireland.

I'm sure that it will work out fine.

/Last one back to East Africa's a rotten egg.

That's exactly the problem with this sort of crap. How far back you go is exactly dependant on how far back it takes for the person speaking to benefit most. For example, if it was me, I would go back to ~400AD, since with old Celtic noble blood from high kings, I would be eligible for election to the high kingship. Me and about 40 million others, estimated as half of the irish diaspora- if you have celtic (as coming from actual celts, not norman stock) blood, you probably qualify, but hey.

NephilimNexus: But then why stop with Mt.Rushmore? Why not make the claim to give the entire country back? I made my high school history blow a fuse after he gave lecture on how the Soviet annexation of the Baltic states we're illegal because they weren't recognized by the United Nations, when I asked him how many of the "treaties" handing everything over from the Indians to the US Government were ratified by the UN.

I'm sure this thread will soon be packed with numerous examples of countries being stolen over history, all claims more or less ending up equally valid or invalid, depending on which stance you want to take. But the point is that they're all equally valid or invalid. You don't get to pick & choose the one's that just happen to benefit you the most and then vilify all the others as being "immoral." Either conquest/annexation/assimilation/whatever you want to call it is okay for everyone and we can drop the issue, or it's not okay for everyone and we can start going through the history books and reshuffling all the maps back to the way they were in... oh crap, now we've brought dates into it. What date are settling on, guys? Are we splitting up Britain into England & Scotland? Are we splitting Wales off from England? Are we giving Portugal back to Spain? Giving Bangladesh & Pakistan back to India? Breaking Manchuria off from China? Splitting Vietnam back in two? Turning Germany back into the Holy Roman Empire? Selling Alaska back to Russia? Giving Texas back to Mexico (they once owned?

Maybe some people want to open this can of worms, but frankly I'd rather just move on and think about the future, not the past. What's done is done. We can't spend our lives trying to fix the mistakes of the past. We can only promise ouorselves not to repeat them again.

=================================================

Well this concept seems to be working pretty well for Israel, regardless of the FACT that most of those who settled there when the Brits basically gave it to them in 1948 were not Semitic Jews (who actually would have some reasonable claim to an "ancestral homeland") but rather European Jews, descendants of non-Semitic people who converted to Judaism. If the Zionists had any shred of integrity or character, they would admit to this, but they clearly don't so...

The article is focusing on Mount Rushmore but if you read it, the actual sacred land is the Black Hills.
If one studies the history the Sioux were driven out of Minnesota by the Chippewa in fights over the wild rice growing area. As one poster noted, the Indians tend to make all the land 'sacred'.

Well, being that it has been many many years since we have had armed conflicts with the native americans, and we have allowed them to enjoy our technological advances such as electricity and automobiles. I think that it may be time for them to get on board and become part of our society.

They want to hunt whales? Hey, not a problem! But you will be paddling that canoe out yourself and will be using the weapons of your ancestors. No .50 cal rifle and an outboard. You don't like? Tough. Why should you get to use modern technology to harvest game with little or no limits? You are native american but you lost the war. You are American now. Welcome aboard! You get to enjoy the same thing that the rest of the U.S. citizens enjoy. Be proud of your heritage and do everything you can to prosper. Just like every other American.

Back to enjoying some cold barley soup......

1. Great headline Subby.

2. James Anaya is a pretty interesting guy. I know this is fark, but what he is working on is good stuff.

3. And most important, remember Farkers it's awesome being white! (sfw)

SOUND: Knocking at door.

MORRIE: I'll get it.

SOUND: Door opens.

BABE: Telegram fo' you, Miss DiAngelo! ... Oh, uh-I'm sorry-I didn't know ... This is for you, Ma'm ...

LURLENE: Thank you, son. just a minute, boy! Come here ...

BABE: Yes?

LURLENE: Where are you from?

BABE: Nairobi, Ma'm. Isn't everybody?