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(Connecticut Post)   "Often, a patient will say to the chaplain, 'No thanks, I am an atheist,' and yet when given the opportunity, will be happy to talk for some time"   (ctpost.com) divider line 293
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9428 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2012 at 9:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-05 09:40:57 PM

Dimensio: accelerus: So just because I might desire human interaction means I automatically have to believe in the sky wizard now?

If there was a god deserving of ANY form of worship I doubt he/she/it would allow the thousands of years of rape/murder/torture to continue here on earth.

And I don't care how hard you believe - there is no way you can put a positive spin on some 2 year old getting raped and killed telling me "its all part of his plan".

If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.


If only we were all lucky enough to get fark-daggered to death at the age of two. Praise be his name!
 
2012-05-05 09:43:49 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: So Christians are now claiming that they invented talking?

/had Christian door-knockers show up the day after my dad's obit hit the papers
//so I guess they troll newspapers looking for weakened people to exploit
///I'll never forgive them for that


It somewhat depends on the Christian, but most of the ones I've known would have done that out of genuine concern for you and your wellbeing, not out of any sinister agenda to convert you.

Maybe that's partly explained by the fact I am Catholic and primarily hung around Catholics - Catholics are more of a "salvation by works" philosophy - faith is important because faith drives good actions, but it's good actions by which we are saved, not faith alone. There's less of an emphasis on converting nonbelievers and more of an emphasis on doing good deeds and being good role models.

I've done many volunteer efforts to help others in my life, and not once, from my most religious to my least, have I ever done that with the intent to convert anyone. If people find good in what I do and are inspired to join the church because of it, that's a happy bonus, but it certainly wasn't the point. Had I knocked on your door in that situation, it would have been out of a genuine desire to express sympathy for your grief and to offer any help I could provide, not out of any desire to take advantage of you. I can't say that is true of all Christians, but it's true of the ones I hang around with. They would offer help because they believe it's the right thing to do, not because they want anything of you in return.
 
2012-05-05 09:43:51 PM

JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry


www.needstolaugh.com
 
2012-05-05 09:43:52 PM

Dimensio: If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.


If you believe this, then you are committing an act of unimaginable cruelty every time you fail to kill a child.

Or, to put it another way, if you believe this, you're not a very clear thinker.
 
2012-05-05 09:45:50 PM

Dimensio: accelerus: So just because I might desire human interaction means I automatically have to believe in the sky wizard now?

If there was a god deserving of ANY form of worship I doubt he/she/it would allow the thousands of years of rape/murder/torture to continue here on earth.

And I don't care how hard you believe - there is no way you can put a positive spin on some 2 year old getting raped and killed telling me "its all part of his plan".

If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.


We should put all children to death before they can sin. It's for the 'infinite good'.


/It's the only way to save them!


Joking aside, if you believe that Jesus was a great teacher, but was not divine (as I do) and you're not sure if there is a 'god' (me, again, but I am sure there's no Yahweh/God watching and judging), then I would say you're an atheistic agnostic. Short version: I don't need Jesus to be divine for his teachings to be relevant to my life and (IMHO) the only true sin lies in doing harm willfully without cause.
 
2012-05-05 09:45:59 PM
/also UU

Lots of us UU's here tonight
 
2012-05-05 09:46:39 PM

Sum Dum Gai: ...the Jesus of the Gospels is a good role model in most respects.


He's the sole reason for the PUSSIFICATION of 'merica! Goddamn liberal poor-lovin' loudmouth hippie pussy that won't fight back!
 
2012-05-05 09:46:39 PM
Chaplains are not missionaries. They're not there to convert you, they're there to comfort you in whatever way they can.

/Atheist
 
2012-05-05 09:47:20 PM

Dimensio: JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry

How, exactly, is an absence of belief in deities an "unknown"?


Oh come one! You can't know whether or not you don't believe in deities!

/Agnostics like to biatch about atheists because in their mind, nobody knows. By that definition, everyone would be agnostic. I see atheism as the most sensible choice, being that every other belief system (for lack of a better term) requires you to make a leap of faith based on zero evidence. Agnosticism is for fence-sitting pussies.
 
2012-05-05 09:47:21 PM

jfarkinB: Dimensio: If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.

If you believe this, then you are committing an act of unimaginable cruelty every time you fail to kill a child.

Or, to put it another way, if you believe this, you're not a very clear thinker.


I have never accused Mr. Craig of being a "clear thinker".
 
2012-05-05 09:49:10 PM
Put your trust in Jeebus, but your ass belongs to me.
7films.me.uk
 
2012-05-05 09:49:53 PM

Sum Dum Gai: It somewhat depends on the Christian, but most of the ones I've known would have done that out of genuine concern for you and your wellbeing, not out of any sinister agenda to convert you.


Well they were pushing pamphlets about the after-life, so I doubt their concern was genuine.
 
2012-05-05 09:50:42 PM

Degenz: Put your trust in Jeebus, but your ass belongs to me.
[7films.me.uk image 640x360]


You're being obtuse.
 
2012-05-05 09:52:02 PM
6.66/10, subby.
 
2012-05-05 09:52:05 PM

fusillade762: "Why is God punishing me?"

Because you touch yourself.


This is the reason you post come up highlighted on my account.
 
2012-05-05 09:52:53 PM

blackhonda: /also UU

Lots of us UU's here tonight


Represent, yo.
 
2012-05-05 09:53:19 PM
Most of the clergy I've run into over the years have been damn fine people and a pleasure to talk to. Their flocks are a much more hit and miss group.
 
2012-05-05 09:54:37 PM
I am an atheist, but I have availed myself of Catholic priests when I need a disinterested third party to talk to, for either advice or a sounding board. I don't always have the money for a secular counselor, and priests are an acceptable substitute. I have never been preached at, and they seem to know their stuff. I don't see any problem with atheists taking to hospital, military, or prison chaplains. It's an effective way to get the help you need.
 
2012-05-05 09:56:03 PM

Spazmojack: Agnosticism is for fence-sitting pussies.


Most people are agnostic. My Christian mother is agnostic.

Knowledge ≠ Belief
 
2012-05-05 09:56:12 PM

accelerus: If there was a god deserving of ANY form of worship I doubt he/she/it would allow the thousands of years of rape/murder/torture to continue here on earth.

And I don't care how hard you believe - there is no way you can put a positive spin on some 2 year old getting raped and killed telling me "its all part of his plan"


I think many of the religious would say that's a consequence of free will. We cannot freely choose to do good unless we could also freely choose to do evil. If God were to take that freedom away, prevent us from being evil, we'd become nothing more than puppets acting out God's will; actors simply playing our role on the stage and then exiting when our part was done. There would be little point to our existence then.

The possibility of sin is inseparable from the gift of free will. Anytime you give someone a meaningful choice, they may make the wrong choice, but it's preferable to giving them no choice at all.
 
2012-05-05 09:56:31 PM

Spazmojack: Dimensio: JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry

How, exactly, is an absence of belief in deities an "unknown"?

Oh come one! You can't know whether or not you don't believe in deities!

/Agnostics like to biatch about atheists because in their mind, nobody knows. By that definition, everyone would be agnostic. I see atheism as the most sensible choice, being that every other belief system (for lack of a better term) requires you to make a leap of faith based on zero evidence. Agnosticism is for fence-sitting pussies.


Again, agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive and they are answers to different questions.

Do you believe that the truth of the existence of deities is knowable? Your answer determines if you are agnostic.

Do you believe in the existence of any deities? Your answer determines if you are an atheist.

Yes/yes, yes/no, no/no, no/yes, are all valid combinations of answers.
 
2012-05-05 09:56:56 PM
A kind word and a compassionate ear are still a kind word and a compassionate ear.

Just because someone doesn't believe in god doesn't mean the are a soulless asshole.

I also think people confuse people who don't believe in a specific god or theology as atheists.

Just because we don't buy into your crap doesn't mean we're arrogant enough to assume we are the be all and end all of sentient existence or that the universe has no higher meaning.

I'd imagine there are very few truly pure atheists roaming around this planet.
 
2012-05-05 09:57:15 PM
Atheist
Happy to talk to anyone that wants to chit chat.
You start preaching, I show you the door.
 
2012-05-05 10:00:25 PM

twat_waffle: I don't see any problem with atheists taking to hospital, military, or prison chaplains. It's an effective way to get the help you need.


I'm wondering if there would be the same openness to an atheist councilor, though. I am obviously not the pinnacle of charisma but if I were to go around a hospital telling the patients, "Hey, once you're dead you're gone but it's okay it happens to everyone. All that is going to be left is your impact on the people around you... and your corpse." I don't think you would get the same favorable response.
 
2012-05-05 10:00:44 PM

Sum Dum Gai: I think many of the religious would say that's a consequence of free will. We cannot freely choose to do good unless we could also freely choose to do evil. If God were to take that freedom away, prevent us from being evil, we'd become nothing more than puppets acting out God's will; actors simply playing our role on the stage and then exiting when our part was done. There would be little point to our existence then.


That two year old got fark-daggered to death for all of us! Praise be His name!
 
2012-05-05 10:01:36 PM

Gonad the Ballbarian: As an Atheistic Catholic


You said "Catholic" twice.
 
2012-05-05 10:01:57 PM

Brainsick: Dimensio: accelerus: So just because I might desire human interaction means I automatically have to believe in the sky wizard now?

If there was a god deserving of ANY form of worship I doubt he/she/it would allow the thousands of years of rape/murder/torture to continue here on earth.

And I don't care how hard you believe - there is no way you can put a positive spin on some 2 year old getting raped and killed telling me "its all part of his plan".

If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.

We should put all children to death before they can sin. It's for the 'infinite good'.


www.atheistconnect.org
 
2012-05-05 10:02:41 PM

Spazmojack: Dimensio: JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry

How, exactly, is an absence of belief in deities an "unknown"?

Oh come one! You can't know whether or not you don't believe in deities!

/Agnostics like to biatch about atheists because in their mind, nobody knows. By that definition, everyone would be agnostic. I see atheism as the most sensible choice, being that every other belief system (for lack of a better term) requires you to make a leap of faith based on zero evidence. Agnosticism is for fence-sitting pussies.


It's still considered horrifying among many to identify as an "atheist". It generally means you're a militant, polemic douchebag at war with all churches and all attempts to good in the world, in favor of a narcissistic, every-man-for-himself philosophy.

I don't blame so many for refusing to identify with that label. Even though a label doesn't change how you identify with yourself, it'll define how others relate to you. That's a problem. Consequently, the label gets primarily used by those who ARE militant, polemic douchebags and have no problem being seen as such. Wear it like a badge, and all.
 
2012-05-05 10:03:02 PM

Cake Hunter: A lot of chaplains are nice people and on-the-job trained therapists.


And really, who else in the hospital has the time to talk to you? Not the doctor or the nurse. They're too damned busy.
 
2012-05-05 10:03:05 PM

buckler: blackhonda: /also UU
Lots of us UU's here tonight
Represent, yo.


One of my recently-retired-due-to-stroke UU Minister's frequent topics was famous folks who acted UU, but weren't known to be. Lincoln, Gandhi, Jefferson, ...
 
2012-05-05 10:03:18 PM

tjsands1118: fusillade762: "Why is God punishing me?"

Because you touch yourself.

This is the reason you post come up highlighted on my account.


Awww, thanks. I feel all warm and fuzzy. *hugs*
 
2012-05-05 10:04:05 PM

KiplingKat872: Elmo Jones: Boxes subby's ears

Agreed.

When my father was in his last days, he had us bring his copy of the Quran to keep on the tray. He wasn't Muslim, but he knew it would drive the visiting preacher nuts.

Miss you Dad.


You farking rock!
 
2012-05-05 10:04:41 PM

Strongbeerrules: Elmo Jones: [quizilla.teennick.com image 640x426]
Boxes subby's ears

General Steele: "There are no atheists in foxholes!!!"


Wow. Talk about an arrogant prick.
 
2012-05-05 10:06:42 PM
As we all know, atheists don't deserve a kind and comforting voice next to them as they inhale for the last time.
 
2012-05-05 10:07:21 PM
I think all of society has moved beyond the religion of older people. If evolution was correct why hasn't any other species "discovered" fire?
 
2012-05-05 10:07:45 PM

Dimensio: JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry

How, exactly, is an absence of belief in deities an "unknown"?


And how is refusing to make up your mind "logical"?
 
2012-05-05 10:07:46 PM
I have been a staunch athesist since I was 13 years old. When I was 16 I was in a mental hospital for a year. When the chaplain wanted to talk to me, I said, "ok, as long as she doesn't try to convert me". She never did. Just listened to me and supported me. To the point that when my psychiatrist was on vacation for 2 weeks, I asked for her to be my stand in support. That woman was wonderful. She never EVER got on me about spiritual things, just cared about me and gave me someone to talk to. She taught me how to bake bread. I will never forget her. I am still an atheist, but my work in hospice brings me in contact with the hospice chaplains, and they are able to take the time and just listen to patients when the rest of us on the team don't have the time allotted to do so. I very very very much support what they do. One of them is performing my wedding later this year. And I know she will be just as respectful of our beliefs as I have seen her with countless patients. I am thankful for professional chaplains. They do good work.
 
2012-05-05 10:07:50 PM

ZeroCorpse: Degenz: Put your trust in Jeebus, but your ass belongs to me.
[7films.me.uk image 640x360]

You're being obtuse.


Shut up, my ass isn't fat at all.
 
2012-05-05 10:07:51 PM

GhostFish: Spazmojack: Dimensio: JaaVaa: Aren't atheism and [insert religion] all just as much of an unknown? I never understood the whole 'I absolutely know ______ and you're full of crap' stance held by so many people.
/agnostic seems far more logical
//too much bigotry

How, exactly, is an absence of belief in deities an "unknown"?

Oh come one! You can't know whether or not you don't believe in deities!

/Agnostics like to biatch about atheists because in their mind, nobody knows. By that definition, everyone would be agnostic. I see atheism as the most sensible choice, being that every other belief system (for lack of a better term) requires you to make a leap of faith based on zero evidence. Agnosticism is for fence-sitting pussies.

Again, agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive and they are answers to different questions.

Do you believe that the truth of the existence of deities is knowable? Your answer determines if you are agnostic.

Do you believe in the existence of any deities? Your answer determines if you are an atheist.

Yes/yes, yes/no, no/no, no/yes, are all valid combinations of answers.


Ok... I guess if you want to break it down like that. I don't know that most agnostics see it that way, and I also don't think most religious adherents or atheists would also admit to being agnostic. Seems like a pretty impractical way to employ the term.
 
2012-05-05 10:11:02 PM
seems to me the word 'advertisement' should have been at the top of TFA. it was a very well written advertisement.

one of the hospitals where i had to spend time in the mental health ward was of a religious affiliation. the chaplain/priest/minister/whatever he was came around. he asked what religion i was, evidently i wasn't in his gang, and he turned on his heels and scurried away like i was infectious.

after i was released i wrote a letter to the hospital administration letting them know i was saddened by what took place. they wrote back insisting such things do not occur at their facility.
 
2012-05-05 10:11:15 PM

Oznog:
It's still considered horrifying among many to identify as an "atheist". It generally means you're a militant, polemic douchebag at war with all churches and all attempts to good in the world, in favor of a narcissistic, every-man-for-himself philosophy.


I'm at war with the idea that being compassionate & caring of thy fellow man is some kind of special purvey of religions, when often they peddle radical opposites. Be cool because you should be cool, not because XYZ deity will toss you in a pit otherwise. Likewise, punch someone because they're a dick, not because 'god' hates w/e. Geez.
 
2012-05-05 10:11:33 PM

Dimensio: If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.


Where in the Bibles does it say anything like that? Craig is just making shiat up to feel better about worshiping a God that orders the wholesale slaughter of children.
 
2012-05-05 10:11:53 PM

Spazmojack: Ok... I guess if you want to break it down like that. I don't know that most agnostics see it that way, and I also don't think most religious adherents or atheists would also admit to being agnostic. Seems like a pretty impractical way to employ the term.


Only the ones who actually know the difference between "theism" and "gnosticism".

/that is to say, more atheists than believers
//"knowing your own shiat" does not appear to be a requirement for religious worship
 
2012-05-05 10:12:30 PM

Sum Dum Gai:

The possibility of sin is inseparable from the gift of free will. Anytime you give someone a meaningful choice, they may make the wrong choice, but it's preferable to giving them no choice at all.


That fails to address all the horrible suffering NOT caused by human choices..
 
2012-05-05 10:12:58 PM

KiplingKat872:
Agreed.

When my father was in his last days, he had us bring his copy of the Quran to keep on the tray. He wasn't Muslim, but he knew it would drive the visiting preacher nuts.

Miss you Dad.


Your Pop sounds like one of those cool old dudes, who knew that sh*t was the main course, but laughter was always available, as a side.
 
2012-05-05 10:14:03 PM

Ed Grubermann: Dimensio: If you believe, as Mr. William Lane Craig does, that the child will enter heaven upon death, then the child is actually the recipient of an "infinite good" as a result of the termination of his or her life.

Where in the Bibles does it say anything like that? Craig is just making shiat up to feel better about worshiping a God that orders the wholesale slaughter of children.


Don't say that. If you pray hard enough, perhaps God will choose to bless your child by sending a horny maniac to pin him down and rape his orifices until he bleeds to death and then he'll be in Heaven forever. Praise be His name!
 
2012-05-05 10:14:48 PM

ZeroCorpse: Degenz: Put your trust in Jeebus, but your ass belongs to me.
[7films.me.uk image 640x360]

You're being obtuse.


What did you call me?
 
2012-05-05 10:17:01 PM

Spazmojack: Ok... I guess if you want to break it down like that. I don't know that most agnostics see it that way, and I also don't think most religious adherents or atheists would also admit to being agnostic. Seems like a pretty impractical way to employ the term.


Well, that's what the terms mean. Or at least that's what they meant, until people bastardized them.

It's like someone asking what your favorite ice-cream flavor is, and you say "white."
Yeah, everyone around you has been saying "white" to mean "vanilla" for as long as you know (because people that say "vanilla" all act like assholes for some reason), but that doesn't mean your usage is technically correct.
 
2012-05-05 10:18:07 PM

Babwa Wawa: ZeroCorpse: Degenz: Put your trust in Jeebus, but your ass belongs to me.
[7films.me.uk image 640x360]

You're being obtuse.

What did you call me?


Would you put this in your outgoing mail?
 
2012-05-05 10:18:30 PM

KiplingKat872: Elmo Jones: Boxes subby's ears

Agreed.

When my father was in his last days, he had us bring his copy of the Quran to keep on the tray. He wasn't Muslim, but he knew it would drive the visiting preacher nuts.

Miss you Dad.


That's a really great story.
I hope I'm that cool as I get old.
Lighten up, Francis.

/NO sarcasms
 
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