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(Investors Business Daily)   Now that unemployment benefits running out for so many, disability claims are skyrocketing   (news.investors.com) divider line 126
    More: Scary, unemployment benefits, social status, economic recovery, disability, nonfarm payrolls, Social Security Administration  
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1497 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 May 2012 at 12:16 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-05 12:17:29 PM
Meh, disability is now the new welfare. And with the proliferation of disabilities, pretty soon everyone will qualify.
 
2012-05-05 12:19:18 PM
Clearly the solution to this is to raise interest rates on student loans, cut taxes for millionaires, defund planned parenthood, and abolish the EPA.
 
2012-05-05 12:21:40 PM

sgtlejeune: Clearly the solution to this is to raise interest rates on student loans, cut taxes for millionaires, defund planned parenthood, and abolish the EPA.


Or just cut disability benefits entirely. With that, lazy people will just get out of their wheelchairs and start finding a job.
 
2012-05-05 12:23:26 PM

WizardofToast: sgtlejeune: Clearly the solution to this is to raise interest rates on student loans, cut taxes for millionaires, defund planned parenthood, and abolish the EPA.

Or just cut disability benefits entirely. With that, lazy people will just get out of their wheelchairs and start finding a job.


As long as they have wheelchairs there will be no incentive for them to walk!
 
2012-05-05 12:23:26 PM

sgtlejeune: Clearly the solution to this is to raise interest rates on student loans, cut taxes for millionaires, defund planned parenthood, and abolish the EPA.


Don't forget to fire all the gays.
 
2012-05-05 12:25:40 PM
meh. Unless you are having one of the ten or so disabilities they recognize instantly, having qualified for unemployment alone at any time seems reason to be turned down for disability.

The new disability "trick" is for the government to continuously move your case to "being reevaluated." It stops you from ever being able to go before a judge.
 
2012-05-05 12:33:07 PM

FlyPanAm: Don't forget to fire all the gays.


By fire you of course mean to round them up and incinerate them.
 
2012-05-05 12:34:43 PM
We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.
 
2012-05-05 12:36:04 PM
More proof that supply-side economics is disastrous. I'm sure throwing another few million dollars in tax cuts on the trillion or so corporations are sitting on will suddenly start making jobs, though. Just keep blaming the poor, that'll fix it.
 
2012-05-05 12:36:12 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.


I don't think a universal dole would be good in the long run
 
2012-05-05 12:39:40 PM
CSB: knew a woman in southern California who was a proto-Tea Partier 10 years ago, railed against all government expenses and welfare. Then I found out that not only was she a Cal State student, but was receiving generous disability payments from the state.

Later at a private company, a guy in another office had his leg amputated because of diabetes complications, so he asked for some time off (short-term accommodation) until he could get a prosthetic fitted. The evil HR rep responded, "You have a desk job, why would you need time off? Get back to work." (Think of commuting in Jersey.)
 
2012-05-05 12:40:27 PM
If only the poor and unemployed would starve to death quietly in the corner like they're supposed to rather than frantically seeking alternative means of staying alive! Frankly I don't think they've thought this through. Why lie and cheat to get on disability when it's far easier to kidnap, rob and kill wealthy people? The worst that could happen is that you go to jail, where you're guaranteed food and medical care, while your appeals slowly work their way through the system.
 
2012-05-05 12:41:00 PM

loonatic112358: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.

I don't think a universal dole would be good in the long run


In the long run, it's probably the only viable way to keep the unemployable and the chronically unemployed from starving and turning violent. Keep them fed, give them somewhere dry to sleep, and feed them reality television punctuated with military recruitment commercials.
 
2012-05-05 12:43:38 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.


Everything that we've learned from the 1960s-onward has taught us that this idea doesn't work. A large percentage of the population would take your offer up, and would quit menial jobs to do so.

The problem is not just the joblessness, but the horribly dysfunctional subculture it creates, with unintended consequences like high crime, drug use, and broken families.
 
2012-05-05 12:44:08 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.


I fully agree. I think this country should offer womb-to-tomb social welfare to anyone who wants it, male, female, young, old, able-bodied or disabled, on one condition: you have to go to school. Eight hours a day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year, you want your free services, you go to school. Study whatever you like, study basketweaving if you want, but you have to go to school.

This would clear the welfare rolls in five years.
 
2012-05-05 12:46:53 PM

T-Servo: CSB: knew a woman in southern California who was a proto-Tea Partier 10 years ago, railed against all government expenses and welfare. Then I found out that not only was she a Cal State student, but was receiving generous disability payments from the state.

Later at a private company, a guy in another office had his leg amputated because of diabetes complications, so he asked for some time off (short-term accommodation) until he could get a prosthetic fitted. The evil HR rep responded, "You have a desk job, why would you need time off? Get back to work." (Think of commuting in Jersey.)


Amazing. I'm getting ready to start at UCSD, and you know what I'm getting, absolute zero.

/has his first student loan ever after working 40+ hours to pay for his undergrad and partial Bachelors
//at least he won't come out mega poor at the end as he still works hard with school and work
///csb slashies
 
2012-05-05 12:49:00 PM
MyRandomName: Meh, disability is now the new welfare. And with the proliferation of disabilities, pretty soon everyone will qualify.

Disability is actually very hard to get. Not a lot of people qualify, and even less actually get in. Sometimes people slip through the cracks, but not always. And they always get tips on people lying and police the service quite well.

I know a lot of boomers with the normal aches and pains think they're entitled to it, but that's just getting old. They got a hard reality coming, after wasting years of pay, their nest eggs, and having saved nothing. Disability ain't gonna help them.
 
2012-05-05 12:49:03 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: In the long run, it's probably the only viable way to keep the unemployable and the chronically unemployed from starving and turning violent. Keep them fed, give them somewhere dry to sleep, and feed them reality television punctuated with military recruitment commercials.


yea, but at some point those on the bread and circus plan will out number those who work

I think companies will have to look at changing how they work people, i like the idea of switching to a 30, 6 hours a day and run 4 shifts if they need to be 24 hour
 
2012-05-05 12:57:00 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.


Interesting that the idea of stopping paying for people who don't want to work doesn't even make it into the discussion any more.
 
2012-05-05 12:57:39 PM

clambam: If only the poor and unemployed would starve to death quietly in the corner like they're supposed to rather than frantically seeking alternative means of staying alive!


Have you ever met poor people? They're not starving. They're disproportionately obese.

Every American, including the most black-hearted Republican, favors a safety net to keep people alive.

The great threat to poor people today is not material want, nor starvation, but unaffordable health care costs, and those are largely borne of preventable causes.

It's far easier to kidnap, rob and kill wealthy people... The worst that could happen is that you go to jail, where you're guaranteed food and medical care

These threads always have a post like this. "The rich should pay more taxes or we'll kill them! First against the wall!" etc. I can't think of a better way to win a political argument than by espousing anarchy, amorality, and violence.
 
2012-05-05 12:57:53 PM

T-Servo: CSB: knew a woman in southern California who was a proto-Tea Partier 10 years ago, railed against all government expenses and welfare. Then I found out that not only was she a Cal State student, but was receiving generous disability payments from the state.


I recall someone here talking about either his brother or his brother in law being a staunch conservative. When republicans started going after unemployment benefits he suddenly became much less vocal in his support. Completely silent almost.
 
2012-05-05 01:00:11 PM
so... hypocrites are idiots?

who knew?

/my lawn..wheel your ass off it..
 
2012-05-05 01:05:12 PM

loonatic112358: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.

I don't think a universal dole would be good in the long run


It certainly would have it's downside, but that was one of the few times he's posted something I agree with. If there's one thing I've learned during my years, it's that there is no way to stop people who want to game the system. I'm not suggesting removal of all oversight, but I think we're way past the point where returns start diminishing for the effort spent trying to stop fraud.

clambam: If only the poor and unemployed would starve to death quietly in the corner like they're supposed to rather than frantically seeking alternative means of staying alive! Frankly I don't think they've thought this through. Why lie and cheat to get on disability when it's far easier to kidnap, rob and kill wealthy people? The worst that could happen is that you go to jail, where you're guaranteed food and medical care, while your appeals slowly work their way through the system.


They haven't resorted to those things yet because we've got enough social safety nets in place that they don't feel completely hopeless. If the GOP succeeds and the poor no longer have anything to lose, and no reasonable hope of bettering their situation within the current system, things will get very nasty.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." Janis Joplin
"Every age yearns for a more beautiful world. The deeper the desperation and the depression about the confusing present, the more intense that yearning." Johan Huizinga
"If we were really tough on crime, we'd try to save our children from the desperation and deprivation that leave them primed for a life of crime." Carrie P. Meek
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy
"Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime." Aristotle
 
2012-05-05 01:05:55 PM

Captain Dan: Every American, including the most black-hearted Republican, favors a safety net to keep people alive.


Well that's just blatantly and obviously untrue.
 
2012-05-05 01:06:40 PM

jjorsett: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Interesting that the idea of stopping paying for people who don't want to work doesn't even make it into the discussion any more.


Look, it's a well known fact around here that every time you discuss the option of not giving people money from the government Chuck Norris punches a Mexican baby in the face.

And you're a racist for even bringing it up.


/Or so I heard
 
2012-05-05 01:10:14 PM
This article is misleading and full of crap and the author should feel like crap about it.

Getting on Disability is a very, verrrrry difficult process. In many cases, it can take over two years of one denial after another before you're allowed to appeal to literally make a Federal case of it.

People don't just put on a hockey helmet a la Cartman and stagger into a Social Security office saying "Gimmeh money!" and it happens. You have to truly be Disabled in order to qualify, with a sh*tton of paperwork backing you up proving that you're not only disabled, but you're so disabled that you'll never be able to find decent employ ability for the rest of your life.
 
2012-05-05 01:11:39 PM

TV's Vinnie: This article is misleading and full of crap and the author should feel like crap about it.

Getting on Disability is a very, verrrrry difficult process. In many cases, it can take over two years of one denial after another before you're allowed to appeal to literally make a Federal case of it.

People don't just put on a hockey helmet a la Cartman and stagger into a Social Security office saying "Gimmeh money!" and it happens. You have to truly be Disabled in order to qualify, with a sh*tton of paperwork backing you up proving that you're not only disabled, but you're so disabled that you'll never be able to find decent employ ability for the rest of your life.


Wait... That doesn't work?!?!?

/Looks like my afternoon just opened up.
 
2012-05-05 01:12:12 PM

sgtlejeune: Clearly the solution to this is to raise interest rates on student loans, cut taxes for millionaires, defund planned parenthood, and abolish the EPA.


Don't forget gutting NPR...
 
2012-05-05 01:12:37 PM

winterwhile: welcome to the Obama modern American economy

it sucks big time


This didn't start in 2008, or 2004, or 2002, the roots of these issues go back further
 
2012-05-05 01:13:24 PM

clambam: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.

I fully agree. I think this country should offer womb-to-tomb social welfare to anyone who wants it, male, female, young, old, able-bodied or disabled, on one condition: you have to go to school. Eight hours a day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year, you want your free services, you go to school. Study whatever you like, study basketweaving if you want, but you have to go to school.

This would clear the welfare rolls in five years.


If I could spend my life in academic pursuit and collect degrees like Pokemon cards, I'd take you up on that offer.

Dr Snarcoleptic, PhD MBA MD CPA RN EE at your service
 
2012-05-05 01:13:57 PM

TV's Vinnie: This article is misleading and full of crap and the author should feel like crap about it.

Getting on Disability is a very, verrrrry difficult process. In many cases, it can take over two years of one denial after another before you're allowed to appeal to literally make a Federal case of it.

People don't just put on a hockey helmet a la Cartman and stagger into a Social Security office saying "Gimmeh money!" and it happens. You have to truly be Disabled in order to qualify, with a sh*tton of paperwork backing you up proving that you're not only disabled, but you're so disabled that you'll never be able to find decent employ ability for the rest of your life.


Willing to bet that some people do try it though.
 
2012-05-05 01:15:44 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.


Friedman and Hayek like the cut of your jib: Link
 
2012-05-05 01:17:30 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Shifting people around from welfare program to welfare program just creates a hell of a lot more paperwork and the end result is simply that people who don't want to work find new and creative ways to get money from the government. Just make it all above board and let people stay on for as long as they want.


This. I find it the height of silliness for example that I need to pretend that I'm looking for work to collect unemployment benefits, even if I'm trying to go to school.
 
2012-05-05 01:18:45 PM
There is a less sinister reason that the disability rolls rise when the labor market is bad. In good economic times, employers will employ people with real health problems and no skills that will work for $8 an hour, even if they call in sick due to their health problems 3-4 times a month. Hell, they're only paying them $8 an hour and no one else will work for that. In bad economic times, there are plenty of healthy people that will work that job and never call in sick. Those people who call in sick 3-4 times a month are unemployable now and are seeking disability because their health problems prevent them from sustaining work on a regular basis.

I'm not saying this is the only reason the rolls grow, but it is a factor.
 
2012-05-05 01:18:49 PM
You want to end long-term unemployment? Implement a statutory 35 hour week with required overtime pay for all workers, get rid of the anti-labor provisions of Taft-Hartley, pull all publicly contracted work back to the public sector and implement human rights tariffs so that companies can no long externalize the real costs of outsourcing production to slave camps like the Chinese SEZs.
 
2012-05-05 01:20:45 PM
You know, it's always comforting to see winterwhile posting more bullshiat. Every once in a while I wonder what might happen if he actually posted something that wasn't completely retarded, and I suspect it would result in matter meeting antimatter in a universe-ending cataclysm.
 
2012-05-05 01:21:15 PM

jjorsett: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Interesting that the idea of stopping paying for people who don't want to work doesn't even make it into the discussion any more.


Probably because rational people realize its cheaper to have a social system that a few people might take advantage of rather than having none and dealing with the problems that an unemployed hungry and angry population tend to exacerbate.. If more of the Ayn Rand crowd actually left their country and saw the state of some of their dream places that don't have social systems, perhaps they would be able to make this obvious connection as well.
 
2012-05-05 01:22:54 PM

Emposter: You know, it's always comforting to see winterwhile posting more bullshiat. Every once in a while I wonder what might happen if he actually posted something that wasn't completely retarded, and I suspect it would result in matter meeting antimatter in a universe-ending cataclysm.


obama's america...........

millions of people............annihilated in a universe ending cataclysm

best part...............total matter-energy conversion
 
2012-05-05 01:23:56 PM
Yesterday it was welfare abuse. Today it's disability abuse.

News flash: neither of them are going to solve our national deficit problems.
 
2012-05-05 01:23:59 PM

Gunther: Captain Dan: Every American, including the most black-hearted Republican, favors a safety net to keep people alive.

Well that's just blatantly and obviously untrue.


No, it's actually true. I'm the most black-hearted Republican of all, according to the accusations of various Farkers.

I think it's backwards to complain about unemployment benefits at a time when there's only 1 job available for every 4 applicants. But in normal times, unemployment ought to be strongly disincentivized. There are horrible pathologies associated with long-term welfare dependency.

Granted: some people, even in robust economic times, will never find work, because they're unfit (physically, mentally, temperamentally). Once we rule out killing them for food, the only thing left to do is to create a humane system that keeps them alive with minimal comfort. It's far from ideal, but if unemployment became too comfortable, then marginally employed people would come to rationally prefer it.
 
2012-05-05 01:25:29 PM

jjorsett: AverageAmericanGuy: We could just drop all the pretense and create a simple welfare system that didn't rely on pretending to look for jobs or somehow paid for as "insurance" by working stiffs. If people don't want to work, let them collect. Let them live in squalor if they prefer that kind of life.

Interesting that the idea of stopping paying for people who don't want to work doesn't even make it into the discussion any more.


Don't give my employer any ideas about not paying people just because they don't want to work.
Oh, wait. You're not talking about people who don't want to work; you're talking about people who can't work. Yeah, that's not in the discussion anymore, because it's not 1930.
 
2012-05-05 01:25:45 PM
And what gets missed is how bad benefits for the disabled are, better to some people to whine about a handful of people abusing the system than how much it actually does for those who need it.
 
2012-05-05 01:26:55 PM
Moar tax cuts for Jeebus!

/and a dino to ride~!
 
2012-05-05 01:26:56 PM
As someone in transition from unemployment to disability, I'm getting a kick out of this thread. One year out of the army, they finally gave me my VA compensation.
 
2012-05-05 01:27:28 PM

loonatic112358: yea, but at some point those on the bread and circus plan will out number those who work


I think you underestimate people's motivations here. There is of course going to be core group of people who will never find work whatever you do, but they are going to find a way to be on dole regardless, so you save money by giving up on the pretense. Most of the rest are going to use that money to better themselves if they an opportunity to do so, regardless of whether you have a bureaucracy setting up conditions on how that is suppose to be done.

This was all confirmed in a Canadian town whose name escapes me where everyone received unconditional welfare if their income fell below a certain threshold. Employment went up for everyone except students and new mothers, and hospital visits went down.
 
2012-05-05 01:31:23 PM
OK, I found it. It was the Mincome program in Dauphin, Canada
 
2012-05-05 01:31:33 PM
see what an island full of disabled people might look like (because the people who live there can't )

If people with disabilities had to beg in the streets we could make sure they were at least working at faking it.
Lower taxes, free entertainment and daily reminders that God loves us more than other people are just some of what we lose with the current system.
 
2012-05-05 01:32:56 PM

Gwyrddu: loonatic112358: yea, but at some point those on the bread and circus plan will out number those who work

I think you underestimate people's motivations here. There is of course going to be core group of people who will never find work whatever you do, but they are going to find a way to be on dole regardless, so you save money by giving up on the pretense. Most of the rest are going to use that money to better themselves if they an opportunity to do so, regardless of whether you have a bureaucracy setting up conditions on how that is suppose to be done.

This was all confirmed in a Canadian town whose name escapes me where everyone received unconditional welfare if their income fell below a certain threshold. Employment went up for everyone except students and new mothers, and hospital visits went down.


Here's the problem: Note the language being used. The arguments against universal welfare are all grounded in neoclassical economic rational actor theory. It is, of course, a wholly inaccurate model and even non-heterodox economists are gradually abandoning it in the wake of the economic crash, in favor of other models like PAE or superrationality.

What they're saying about welfare motivation is "accurate" in a simple game-theoretic model. If humans were all TI calculators from 1968 these would be accurate statements. The only reason, however, that these wrong-headed ideas still used is that they support Friedmanite economics and the field of economics is, by its nature, dominated by right-wing capitalists. IOW, anyone who studies economics is being pumped full of right-wing propaganda from the outset.
 
2012-05-05 01:33:18 PM
I practice Social Secuirty Disability law - I spend 60+ hours a week on this stuff and I've got to say disability is poorly portrayed by the media.

For example, Disability Insurance Benefits require you to have paid enough money into the system recently enough. It's not some free-ride program, it's public disability insurance that's paid by you with your FICA withholding and if your disability shows up too long after you stopped working you won't be covered.

Supplemental Security Income doesn't have a requirement that you paid into the system, but you need to be VERY poor to qualify. If you've got $2,000 on available resources you don't qualify ($3,000 if you're married). If you get income of any kind, including free rent from friends/family, it will offset any possible benefit until you can receive nothing - the maximum benefit is ~$960/month with individuals usually capping out near $750, so it's not hard to hit that limit.

Plus, anyone who is participating in substantial gainful activity will not qualify at all no matter how disabled they are. You could be armless and wheelchair bound an you'd be ineligible if you're working full time OR making at least $1,010/month gross - and full time can include volunteer work or even self-employment.

This stuff is my life and DAMN is it misunderstood.
 
2012-05-05 01:33:58 PM

PirateFreedom: If people with disabilities had to beg in the streets we could make sure they were at least working at faking it.


And then you have to deal with that shiat when you walk down the street on a daily basis. Try going to some shiathole like India and see how much you like making them "work at faking it" then.
 
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