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(American Thinker)   "When individuality asserts itself, we find that household incomes are nearly always the product of factors other than inequality. Anyone who believes otherwise should spend time with someone in the lowest household income quintile"   (americanthinker.com) divider line 153
    More: Fail, median household income, wage gap, progressive taxes, Joseph Stalin, Organization for Economic Cooperation  
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2959 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 May 2012 at 10:36 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-05 11:29:18 AM  

Mrtraveler01: HairBolus: the author is writing about Hong Kong

I'm guessing he didn't mention the fact they have universal health care either huh?


Having universal health care in Hong Kong is like being world-famous in Poland.
 
2012-05-05 11:29:59 AM  

o5iiawah: you mean to tell me that a lifestyle of frugality, thrift and conscientious spending will more often than not lead to financial stability later on in life? Color me shocked.

Case in point:

You spent how much on Prom?

But the statistic that Visa describes as "troubling" is how prom spending differs by family income. In general, the lower the income bracket, the more Americans are likely to spend on prom. For parents who make more than $75,000 a year, for example, prom spending averages about $850. For those making between $20,000 and $29,999, average prom spending leaps to $2,635 - the most of any income bracket.


To make additional assumptions: I grew up in a rural neighborhood where for many of my classmates, high school graduation was it. they were not going to college. Therefore, prom and graduation were a. big. deal.

Poorer = more likely to be uneducated beyond high school = prom being a bigger deal.
 
2012-05-05 11:31:10 AM  
I know several illegal Mexicans who work from sun up to sun and then have to take public transportation for hours to get home.

Hey white entitled bigot, would rise at 3 AM to take a bus 2 hours to clean a house for $50?
 
2012-05-05 11:31:19 AM  

Katie98_KT: o5iiawah: you mean to tell me that a lifestyle of frugality, thrift and conscientious spending will more often than not lead to financial stability later on in life? Color me shocked.

Case in point:

You spent how much on Prom?

But the statistic that Visa describes as "troubling" is how prom spending differs by family income. In general, the lower the income bracket, the more Americans are likely to spend on prom. For parents who make more than $75,000 a year, for example, prom spending averages about $850. For those making between $20,000 and $29,999, average prom spending leaps to $2,635 - the most of any income bracket.

To make additional assumptions: I grew up in a rural neighborhood where for many of my classmates, high school graduation was it. they were not going to college. Therefore, prom and graduation were a. big. deal.

Poorer = more likely to be uneducated beyond high school = prom being a bigger deal.


Well that does it then, we need to cut the taxes for the rich EVEN MORE!!!
 
2012-05-05 11:33:34 AM  
It's sad to watch system men make lame excuses when their beloved system falls apart. Such desperation and insecurity is very unflattering.
 
2012-05-05 11:33:46 AM  
Cowperthwaite knew that statistics provided the raw input for interventionist mischief. He also knew that an organic, messy, free wealth-producing economy is too confounding and too replete with innumerable combinations of human action to be improved by mere mortals.

You, sir, are an idiot. And you just shouted it to the world.
 
2012-05-05 11:35:10 AM  

gameshowhost: I love this paragraph since it fails so goddamned hard:

"But one could just as persuasively argue that the millionaire experiences little drop in marginal utility on the next dollar earned, or he wouldn't consistently drive himself to success. The day laborer's inconsistent work habits could just as easily reflect his low marginal utility for that next dollar earned. (George Bernard Shaw, in his masterly play Pygmalion, provides an excellent example of money's low marginal utility to the working poor. Money actually held negative marginal utility to Alfred Doolittle, who preferred Henry Higgins' five-pound offer to Higgins' ten-pound offer.)"

/ceteris parabis violations
//tard-like grasp on marginal analysis
///self-anointed persuasiveness
//using an anecdote from a work of fiction as economic data
/... oh lawd


No kidding. Does this guy think that a millionaire works as hard to make his next $10K as someone pulling minimum wage?

"But I worked for my money! That last deal I made at the gold course, to swap derivative securities... do you think I could have done that if I hadn't been practicing on the golf course, week after week, since I was a kid? You think I could leverage my family contacts without that handicap?"

/if the author can use fiction, so can I
 
2012-05-05 11:38:35 AM  

T-Servo: That last deal I made at the gold course,


I see what you accidentally did there. :)
 
2012-05-05 11:41:16 AM  

hillbillypharmacist: These are the sorts of folks who take it on faith that people get what they deserve.

If you make that your initial assumption, then all conservatism follows.


Hey growing up is no fun. Better to stay in that adolescent stage where 8th grade humor still makes you laugh and your politics are as uncomplicated as "USA USA USA".
 
2012-05-05 11:44:42 AM  

Corporate Self: I know several illegal Mexicans who work from sun up to sun and then have to take public transportation for hours to get home.


And I know several white shiatheads who find this kind of work below them and wouldn't do it if their life depended on it but will damn sure biatch about their lot in life.

I have more respect for the illegal Mexicans who would do the work that you wouldn't.

Corporate Self: Hey white entitled bigot, would rise at 3 AM to take a bus 2 hours to clean a house for $50?


Not you I'm willing to bet.
 
2012-05-05 11:46:05 AM  
I would say it is more like "Stop the ABUSE AND MANIPULATION" of statistics.

By both sides.

/tv is already turned off news stations till after first week in november, my bullshiat toleration level is already pegged out.
 
2012-05-05 11:53:00 AM  

Make More Hinjews: T-Servo: That last deal I made at the gold course,

I see what you accidentally did there. :)


Oops. Freudian slip of the fingers. Apparently there is a 'Gold Course' for golf, located in Maui. So, that works.
 
2012-05-05 11:57:52 AM  
More abstract bullshiat from another worm-farming "economist".
Human life simplified, for those with limited reasoning skills.
Carry on, then.
 
2012-05-05 12:05:09 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: I know several illegal Mexicans who work from sun up to sun and then have to take public transportation for hours to get home.

And I know several white shiatheads who find this kind of work below them and wouldn't do it if their life depended on it but will damn sure biatch about their lot in life.

I have more respect for the illegal Mexicans who would do the work that you wouldn't.

Corporate Self: Hey white entitled bigot, would rise at 3 AM to take a bus 2 hours to clean a house for $50?

Not you I'm willing to bet.


Dancin_In_Anson defending bigots with logical fallacies and ad-homiem since 2003.
 
2012-05-05 12:06:52 PM  
At least the stupid arguments have moved from "There is no inequality, it's not gotten worse, things are fine" to "there is inequality, but it's fine".
 
2012-05-05 12:09:12 PM  

Corporate Self: defending bigots with logical fallacies and ad-homiem since 2003.


Indeed. Now keep on that high road biatching about the guy that isn't afraid of working to further himself.
 
2012-05-05 12:11:08 PM  
Lotsa red herrings being served up in this thread.

The article's author makes a valid point: there are individual factors of one's financial stability that are either overlooked or ignored when economic statistics are gathered and analyzed. People in this thread are indirectly asserting that lower class workers are there due to factors outside their control, and need government help. I'm sure many are.

Many others, though, are indeed complete deadbeats because of their ignorant choices.

Lazy, worthless, irresponsible drunkards and/or junkies who not just won't work but CAN'T because they haven't even the interest in developing even the simplest of useful skills, like sacking groceries. They won't work because doing so is "retarded," so they concoct massive lies so they can con every welfare agency or charity organization in sight. Their subsistence is beer, and cigarettes purchased with money "borrowed" from what few friends or relatives who have been guilted into not leaving their leeching broke asses on the side of the road. They're always around for dinner, but somehow have to be somewhere else when it's time to clean the kitchen. They have an excuse for everything except why they won't bother to take responsibility for their own lives.

I know these people. They're in my f*cking family; they're most of my extended family. Not a single one of them has anything wrong with them they can't flip burgers, mop floors, stock shelves, wait tables, lick stamps, mow lawns, collect refuse, run a cash register, or get any of a million other jobs in the world that don't require more than a middle school education, minimal human courtesy, and the ability to follow simple instructions.

They are not the "exceptions," either. Their leeching is encouraged by social workers who show people how to game the system for even more handouts. The welfare system can't thrive if it takes care of the tiny fraction of those who truly cannot work - it feeds parasites and thus becomes a parasite itself.

They are the real sociopaths - those who will take from you without a moment of concern for your rights - not those of us who are working tooth and nail trying to make lives of our own, yet are saddled with the welfare and debts of fark-off nobodies who contribute nothing to this world.
 
2012-05-05 12:11:21 PM  

Corporate Self: Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: I know several illegal Mexicans who work from sun up to sun and then have to take public transportation for hours to get home.

And I know several white shiatheads who find this kind of work below them and wouldn't do it if their life depended on it but will damn sure biatch about their lot in life.

I have more respect for the illegal Mexicans who would do the work that you wouldn't.

Corporate Self: Hey white entitled bigot, would rise at 3 AM to take a bus 2 hours to clean a house for $50?

Not you I'm willing to bet.

Dancin_In_Anson defending bigots with logical fallacies and ad-homiem since 2003.


Sounds like the two of you agree with each other, why is Anson acting like a sandy vagina?
 
2012-05-05 12:11:52 PM  

Bob16: hillbillypharmacist: These are the sorts of folks who take it on faith that people get what they deserve.

If you make that your initial assumption, then all conservatism follows.

Hey growing up is no fun. Better to stay in that adolescent stage where 8th grade humor still makes you laugh and your politics are as uncomplicated as "USA USA USA".


I know a kid who takes offense to that!
 
2012-05-05 12:12:05 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: defending bigots with logical fallacies and ad-homiem since 2003.

Indeed. Now keep on that high road biatching about the guy that isn't afraid of working to further himself.


Good for you.

Also, I love your mustache. Several of my gay friends sport the look. The Ironic Tom Sellek look is popular in the bearish community from what I hear.

Go get 'em Tiger! ;)
 
2012-05-05 12:13:37 PM  

Deneb81: At least the stupid arguments have moved from "There is no inequality, it's not gotten worse, things are fine" to "there is inequality, but it's fine".


And they may be switching from that to "there's inequality, but we don't have enough of it". There's a new book coming out soon by a close friend and campaign donor of Mitt Romney arguing just that. They have the gall to claim they are being mistreated and the victims of a moral injustice.
 
2012-05-05 12:15:06 PM  
NOW I get it! The article is actually conservative humor!
 
2012-05-05 12:15:41 PM  
This guy must be the life of the party.
 
2012-05-05 12:17:08 PM  

SphericalTime: The thrust seems to be that women don't make less than men. But yeah, again, we can actually examine the data and find that women working the same job and the same hours as men take home less money.


Can you point me to that dataset?
 
2012-05-05 12:17:11 PM  
When asked to name the one reform that swelled his pride most, Cowperthwaite replied, "I abolished the collection of statistics."

I think I just figured out why this guy is their hero.

Facts have an uncomfortable liberal bias? Eliminate the collection of facts. Ta da!
 
2012-05-05 12:18:09 PM  

Lernaeus: ...I know these people. They're in my f*cking family;...


Funny, you don't sound blah.
 
2012-05-05 12:25:08 PM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-05-05 12:26:37 PM  

RodneyToady: SphericalTime: The thrust seems to be that women don't make less than men. But yeah, again, we can actually examine the data and find that women working the same job and the same hours as men take home less money.

Can you point me to that dataset?


Does the GAO work for you?


Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts.
 
2012-05-05 12:27:24 PM  

Lernaeus: Lotsa red herrings being served up in this thread.

The article's author makes a valid point: there are individual factors of one's financial stability that are either overlooked or ignored when economic statistics are gathered and analyzed. People in this thread are indirectly asserting that lower class workers are there due to factors outside their control, and need government help. I'm sure many are.

Many others, though, are indeed complete deadbeats because of their ignorant choices.

Lazy, worthless, irresponsible drunkards and/or junkies who not just won't work but CAN'T because they haven't even the interest in developing even the simplest of useful skills, like sacking groceries. They won't work because doing so is "retarded," so they concoct massive lies so they can con every welfare agency or charity organization in sight. Their subsistence is beer, and cigarettes purchased with money "borrowed" from what few friends or relatives who have been guilted into not leaving their leeching broke asses on the side of the road. They're always around for dinner, but somehow have to be somewhere else when it's time to clean the kitchen. They have an excuse for everything except why they won't bother to take responsibility for their own lives.

I know these people. They're in my f*cking family; they're most of my extended family. Not a single one of them has anything wrong with them they can't flip burgers, mop floors, stock shelves, wait tables, lick stamps, mow lawns, collect refuse, run a cash register, or get any of a million other jobs in the world that don't require more than a middle school education, minimal human courtesy, and the ability to follow simple instructions.

They are not the "exceptions," either. Their leeching is encouraged by social workers who show people how to game the system for even more handouts. The welfare system can't thrive if it takes care of the tiny fraction of those who truly cannot work - it feeds parasites and thus becomes a par ...


More proof that the plural of "anecdote" is "data."
 
2012-05-05 12:31:10 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: defending bigots with logical fallacies and ad-homiem since 2003.

Indeed. Now keep on that high road biatching about the guy that isn't afraid of working to further himself.


That guy stroking himself until TFA spurted out counts as "work" now?

i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-05-05 12:31:55 PM  

Corporate Self: Also, I love your mustache. Several of my gay friends sport the look. The Ironic Tom Sellek look is popular in the bearish community from what I hear.


You don't like what I have to say so you insinuate that I'm gay. Is that really the best you can do? What the fark are you, a 5th grader?
 
2012-05-05 12:40:27 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Does the GAO work for you?

Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts.


Erm... from the link you just sent posted:

"Women in the workforce are also less likely to work a full-time schedule and are more likely to leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men, further suppressing women's wages. These differing work patterns lead to an even larger earnings gap between men and women - suggesting that working women are penalized for their dual roles as wage earners and those who disproportionately care for home and family."

Hours worked, both yearly and per job title within an industry, needs to be part of the equation, and it may not be here.

Also, once again, "woman" is being conflated with "mother." Are childless women facing the same pay disparity as mothers are? And, if not, is it due to outright discrimination, or to the fact that some mothers drop out of the working work from time to time due to pregnancy/maternity leave, and the perception is that women in general/mothers-to-be will do that, so they lose chances for promotion/important clients/increasing responsibilities at work that lead to promotions?
 
2012-05-05 12:47:21 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: Also, I love your mustache. Several of my gay friends sport the look. The Ironic Tom Sellek look is popular in the bearish community from what I hear.

You don't like what I have to say so you insinuate that I'm gay. Is that really the best you can do? What the fark are you, a 5th grader?


Because being gay is soooo icky and horrible and wrong.
 
2012-05-05 12:50:28 PM  
To be fair, you would make the exact same observations in the top income quintile. Lower IQ and lazy rich assholes spend a shiatload of time scheming to avoid responsibilty for themselves while consuming other people's wealth (though it's rarely considered stealing). Higher IQ and more ambitious rich assholes go on to find ways to lift themselves into even higher income brackets and hide their income "under the table."
 
2012-05-05 12:50:39 PM  
Having read that entire turd, let me give the TL;DR version: POOR PEOPLE = LAZY PEOPLE and cited with numbers from the Department of Rectally-Derived Statistics.

I like that population based averages with no regard for individual variance count as in-depth analysis.
 
2012-05-05 12:52:24 PM  
voiceseducation.org

What that was like.
 
2012-05-05 12:55:49 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Levitt, in Freakonomics, has an interesting take on wealth disparity, arguing that intelligence is the primary long-term determining factor when it comes to wealth. The higher you score on IQ tests, the more wealth you are likely to have.

If this is the case, then the day to day behavior and actions of the "lowest quintile" is only a reflection of their inherent intelligence and not due to structural problems of society. The outcome of that behavior feeds a cycle of poverty which they can't break out of, but even if they were to suddenly come into wealth, they would soon be back in destitution.

He has a lot of crazy ideas, and this is one of the more controversial ones.


He's right. At least in the US. As a country, we epitomize the idea "work smarter, not harder." Because what could be smarter than to take advantage of people who work hard but are under compensated, keep the extra profits on their increased productivity, and make yourself tons of money while you "manage" them? Or even better! Managing sounds like work...if you're smart enough to be born rich, you can just invest and do no work at all!
 
2012-05-05 12:57:46 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: Also, I love your mustache. Several of my gay friends sport the look. The Ironic Tom Sellek look is popular in the bearish community from what I hear.

You don't like what I have to say so you insinuate that I'm gay. Is that really the best you can do? What the fark are you, a 5th grader?


I didn't say you were gay. I said my gay friends have your look. You look a lot like my friend Jonny (his spelling, not mine =P).

I'd post Jon's pic, but I think he'd be pissed. Anyway, Relax sweetmeat.
 
2012-05-05 01:00:46 PM  

RodneyToady: Hours worked, both yearly and per job title within an industry, needs to be part of the equation, and it may not be here.


I'm not sure what part of "Women make 80 cents for every dollar earned by men" is confusing to you.
 
2012-05-05 01:01:25 PM  

Corporate Self: I didn't say you were gay.


No shiat. You insinuated it as an insult.

Hetfield: Because being gay is soooo icky and horrible and wrong.

right?
 
2012-05-05 01:03:59 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: I didn't say you were gay.

No shiat. You insinuated it as an insult. Hetfield: Because being gay is soooo icky and horrible and wrong. right?


No you took offense to an innocuous statement. Besides, as you and hetfield point out, being called gay is not insulting.
 
2012-05-05 01:04:47 PM  
Deep thoughts from Der Sturmer.
 
2012-05-05 01:07:47 PM  

Corporate Self: Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: I didn't say you were gay.

No shiat. You insinuated it as an insult. Hetfield: Because being gay is soooo icky and horrible and wrong. right?

No you took offense to an innocuous statement. Besides, as you and hetfield point out, being called gay is not insulting.


I'm glad you didn't insinuate he was black. He'd have turned into the Hulk.
 
2012-05-05 01:09:46 PM  

Hetfield: Corporate Self: Dancin_In_Anson: Corporate Self: I didn't say you were gay.

No shiat. You insinuated it as an insult. Hetfield: Because being gay is soooo icky and horrible and wrong. right?

No you took offense to an innocuous statement. Besides, as you and hetfield point out, being called gay is not insulting.

I'm glad you didn't insinuate he was black. He'd have turned into the Hulk.


ANSON SMASH!
 
2012-05-05 01:10:49 PM  

Corporate Self: No you took offense


I laughed at it. And sent it to a gay friend who commented on E's Hello Kitty shades...but not the mustache. That must be your thing.
 
2012-05-05 01:11:51 PM  

Hetfield: I'm glad you didn't insinuate he was black


You would have a problem with that too eh?
 
2012-05-05 01:13:40 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Hetfield: I'm glad you didn't insinuate he was black

You would have a problem with that too eh?


I have piles and piles of black friends.
 
2012-05-05 01:14:00 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Don't even try to measure economic quantities, because you'll never get it right. But don't worry, the Austrians have it all figured out anyway. And what they've figured out is that the poor should shut the fark up and quit being poor if they don't like it so much.


You know who else was Austrian?
 
2012-05-05 01:14:56 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: RodneyToady: Hours worked, both yearly and per job title within an industry, needs to be part of the equation, and it may not be here.

I'm not sure what part of "Women make 80 cents for every dollar earned by men" is confusing to you.


Because it's not specific. It's a nice sound bite, but it lacks crucial information on how that number was derived. Are these means? Medians? Across all industries? Accurate for every level of every job in every region?

How's this: If you're just starting out in a minimum wage job, you're expected to start at minimum wage. I presume Staples is minimum wage (it was when I worked there over a decade ago). I, a man, made minimum wage. My female coworkers who were just starting, made minimum wage. Therefore, at least for that job level, it may be safe to say that women did not make 80% of my hourly wage.

Some, however, may have worked 24 hours a week to my 30 hours a week. Those women would have been making 80 cents to my dollar, if you ignore hours worked. To me, hours worked would be an important number to factor in.

When looking at complex data sets, a one-sentence summary is rarely comprehensive.
 
2012-05-05 01:16:15 PM  

Hetfield: I have piles and piles of black friends


And your white friends just don't get it!!
 
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