That's too bad, Dan's usually a voice of reason and not prone to tilting at windmills. This sort of thing always winds up being embarassing, unproductive, or both.

433: That's too bad, Dan's usually a voice of reason and not prone to tilting at windmills. This sort of thing always winds up being embarassing, unproductive, or both.

Dan Savage grew up in an evangelical Catholic family and was in Catholic seminary to become a priest before he decided that coming out and living honestly was a better option than being a closeted priest, so I'm going to wager that Savage probably knows the Bible and Catholic theology way better than Brian Brown does. Brown is going to get pwnd, assuming he doesn't find an excuse to back out, that is.

433: That's too bad, Dan's usually a voice of reason and not prone to tilting at windmills. This sort of thing always winds up being embarassing, unproductive, or both.

With these types of debates, both sides will claim victory.

Left leaning Blogs will claim that Savage EVISCERATED Brown.

Right leaning blogs will say that Brown stood his ground against a liberal elite and made him a fool.

No one changes his/her mind.

I would like to hear Brian Brown read Song of Songs.

vernonFL: I would like to hear Brian Brown read Song of Songs.

Please no. I'm already disturbed enough from seeing youtube clips of Mark Driscoll preaching on it.

Would put it on pay per view. Hell I'd buy it.

Although I don't think the NOM guy was serious.

rynthetyn: Brown is going to get pwnd, assuming he doesn't find an excuse to back out, that is.

For those people, victory is merely getting a platform to speak from and the publicity going with it. To Brown, it doesn't matter at all if he wins or loses. He gets to claim victory by saying "Obviously there IS something to debate".

So, from the bible-thumper's point of view, he's already won.

How do you "debate" the Bible? Its a collection of stories and laws and histories of 3000 year old desert tribes.

This will solve nothing.

mamoru:

For those people, victory is merely getting a platform to speak from and the publicity going with it. To Savage, it doesn't matter at all if he wins or loses. He gets to claim victory by saying "Obviously there IS something to debate".

vernonFL: How do you "debate" the Bible?

How do you debate anything?

vernonFL: How do you "debate" the Bible? Its a collection of stories and laws and histories of 3000 year old desert tribes.

Well, I assume the NOM bigot will say that traditional marriage, as per the bible, is between one man and one woman. And I assume Dan Savage will respond by noting that the bible has almost zero examples of such an arrangement. The closest I can think of off my head is Joseph and Mary - and even that example has a Mary cheating on Joseph and going to the altar with some other dude's kid.

rynthetyn: Dan Savage grew up in an evangelical Catholic family

What's an evangelical catholic? I was raised catholic and have never heard of that

Karac: that traditional marriage, as per the bible, is between one man and one woman

Jesus supported traditional marriage so much that he himself never married, and none of his followers did either.

Dan just needs to go up there and say, "Look, it's not about you proving me wrong, it's about you convincing us you're right." These debates never go anywhere because the claim of the religious side is always assumed to be valid, when it's not. The onus isn't on the non-believer to justify not believing an outrageous claim.

vernonFL: I would like to hear Brian Brown read Song of Songs.

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW W WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

WhyteRaven74: verbaltoxin: "Look, it's not about you proving me wrong, it's about you convincing us you're right."

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he does.

Controversial though it would be, if I were Dan, I'd bring out a copy of the Koran, open it up, and state, "There is not God but God, and Muhammad is his Prophet. It says so right here that this book is the inerrant word of God recited to the Prophet. It says that Jesus is not the son of God, but a Prophet of God. It says so right here. That's proof right? Who are you to contradict the word of God?"

Right then and there Brian Brown has to argue, in public, why Islam is false and Christianity is real. And I would go right back to that statement each time he would try to dodge.

The point is, religious folks asserting they're right is old. It's boring and it's stupid. You want to command the megaphone and tell people what to think? Then prove your claims or shut up, and mind your own business. Lots of other Christians get on just fine without having to evangelize, proselytize or demonize everything in sight. I don't know why asshats like Brian Brown continue to be the squeaky wheels.

If you read Savage's advice column, he's pretty conservative and he gives good advice. Also I think he's married and has kids.