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(The American Conservative)   Conservatives are starting to realize that opposition to gay marriage is a hopeless attempt to stop the tides   ( theamericanconservative.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, opposition  
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3243 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 May 2012 at 1:13 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-04 11:19:48 AM  
Hey subby, did you read any of the comments to that article? At least 90% of them were people promising to double down on their opposition to marriage equality.
 
2012-05-04 11:22:48 AM  
Just like how they lost the abortion thing. Oh wait...
 
2012-05-04 11:31:31 AM  
rather it is a consequence of a shift in the foundations of Western civilization that has been taking place over centuries-a shift from Christian to liberal foundations.

So devious. So subtle.
 
2012-05-04 11:45:42 AM  
Another 15, 20 years and maybe they'll figure it out
 
2012-05-04 11:50:33 AM  
There is no logical reason to legalize homosexual marriage. Legal marriage exists for the purpose of protecting the mother (and children). Since homosexual couples cannot have natural children of their own -nor should they be able to adopt children- marriage would not apply.

Why would homosexual couples desire to get married anyway? Would that give them the delusion that they have become normal?


This person has never formed an independent thought. Ever.
 
2012-05-04 12:01:33 PM  
These are people who believe that a magic man is going to come down from the sky and kill all their enemies. They're not going to give up so long as they think the end is near.
 
2012-05-04 12:02:00 PM  
A mule is natural. A mule is alive. A mule is useful. In fact, mules can do lots of things that neither horses nor donkeys can do-except make other mules. And that's why mules can never really get married.

soqueaocontrario.com.brView Full Size
 
2012-05-04 12:05:33 PM  
Being in the same relationship with my partner for over 13 years now must frighten them terribly. I lie awake at night thinking of all the marriages we've ruined by staying happy together for so long when the average life of a breeder marriage is 6 years. Sometimes I can't look in the mirror at our-self, to see the face of a happy same-sex couple and know that those smiles are the root-cause of breaking apart someone's marriage, family, and causing breeder spouses to cheat on one-another.

Someone please help! what should we do to get over this bad feeling?
 
2012-05-04 12:15:29 PM  

mauricecano: breeder


When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.
 
2012-05-04 12:39:05 PM  

Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.


We're way beyond goodwill at this point in the debate and time has proven again and again that its fun to rile up the conservatives with selectively injected words on fark and watch the reaction.
 
2012-05-04 12:55:13 PM  
There will come a time when gay marriage is fully legal and accepted. And When that time comes, conservatives will tell us about how they were always in favor of gay marriage, how they fought tooth & nail against evil obstructionist liberals to gain marriage equality. Yes, they did it all despite the liberal's objections.
 
2012-05-04 01:02:17 PM  

mauricecano: We're way beyond goodwill at this point in the debate and time has proven again and again that its fun to rile up the conservatives with selectively injected words on fark and watch the reaction.


You risk alienating support from sympathetic heterosexual parties by insulting them in that generalization. Heterosexual doesn't mean anti-gay and your post seems to class this as gay vs not-gay, when in reality it's bigots vs. everyone else. For a group of people who doesn't want to suffer discrimination anymore, that's awfully hypocritical.
 
2012-05-04 01:08:17 PM  

mauricecano: Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.

We're way beyond goodwill at this point in the debate and time has proven again and again that its fun to rile up the conservatives with selectively injected words on fark and watch the reaction.


Just say "raise taxes." You'll see a nuclear bomb go off.
 
2012-05-04 01:17:33 PM  

mauricecano: Being in the same relationship with my partner for over 13 years now must frighten them terribly. I lie awake at night thinking of all the marriages we've ruined by staying happy together for so long when the average life of a breeder marriage is 6 years. Sometimes I can't look in the mirror at our-self, to see the face of a happy same-sex couple and know that those smiles are the root-cause of breaking apart someone's marriage, family, and causing breeder spouses to cheat on one-another.

Someone please help! what should we do to get over this bad feeling?


Pray away the gay, obviously.
 
2012-05-04 01:18:15 PM  

Relatively Obscure: A mule is natural. A mule is alive. A mule is useful. In fact, mules can do lots of things that neither horses nor donkeys can do-except make other mules. And that's why mules can never really get married.

[www.soqueaocontrario.com.br image 500x326]


Mules are against nature!

/And psychohistory
 
2012-05-04 01:20:44 PM  
The thing against which supporters of same-sex marriage have committed their aggression is tradition, specifically the West's traditional understanding of marriage dating back a thousand years and more.

Fallacy of tradition. What else you got?
 
2012-05-04 01:22:19 PM  
Jesus Christ, I don't know what's more infuriating. The bawwwwing about tradition or the fact that the author has nary a farking clue as to Rome's history with "barbarians".
 
2012-05-04 01:22:31 PM  

Serious Black: Hey subby, did you read any of the comments to that article? At least 90% of them were people promising to double down on their opposition to marriage equality.


Reading those comments makes me sad. They are, for the most part, thoughtful and articulate posts (a rare find for a conservative discussion thread), and completely oblivious to the point the author was trying to make.

My prediction: same-sex marriage will be completely legal in all 50 states within 15 years.
 
2012-05-04 01:22:49 PM  
Tide goes in.
Tide goes out.
You can't explain that.
 
2012-05-04 01:23:08 PM  
tl;dr

summary: lots of butthurt
 
2012-05-04 01:23:55 PM  
This part of the culture wars is over. It was been for a while. The gays won. The right has it's dead-enders that refuse to accept it, but it's over.

There's still work to do -- changing unfair and discriminatory laws and practices, but that'll happen, and the only resistance will be from those that the rest of the country will roll their eyes at and sigh about how this country is a much better place now that the rest of the country grew up and started doing the right thing. Like when we banned racial discrimination.
 
2012-05-04 01:25:09 PM  
Bigotry is a learned behavior.

:)
 
2012-05-04 01:25:26 PM  
So damn predictable (from the comments): "Human anatomy and physiology does not naturally provide for homosexual procreation. A man cannot get pregnant, and a woman cannot impregnate another woman. There is not even a physiologically intended method for coitus between the same sexes."

Oh look. It's another conservative with a weird fascination for the mechanics of gay sex. I bet that NEVER manifests itself as a secret obsession with gay porn.
 
2012-05-04 01:26:04 PM  

StopLurkListen: This part of the culture wars is over. It was been for a while. The gays won. The right has it's dead-enders that refuse to accept it, but it's over.


Yup, it is the GOP's gun control.
 
2012-05-04 01:27:10 PM  

Elandriel: mauricecano: We're way beyond goodwill at this point in the debate and time has proven again and again that its fun to rile up the conservatives with selectively injected words on fark and watch the reaction.

You risk alienating support from sympathetic heterosexual parties by insulting them in that generalization. Heterosexual doesn't mean anti-gay and your post seems to class this as gay vs not-gay, when in reality it's bigots vs. everyone else. For a group of people who doesn't want to suffer discrimination anymore, that's awfully hypocritical.


Let me know the next time a group of angry gay people drags a heterosexual person behind a truck for being straight while screaming "breeder!" and I'll worry about the so-called offensive implications of the term.

Until then, I'm really sorry if your delicate sensibilities are injured through the use of not-really-insulting designations for straight people.
 
2012-05-04 01:27:24 PM  

make me some tea: Serious Black: Hey subby, did you read any of the comments to that article? At least 90% of them were people promising to double down on their opposition to marriage equality.

Reading those comments makes me sad. They are, for the most part, thoughtful and articulate posts (a rare find for a conservative discussion thread), and completely oblivious to the point the author was trying to make.

My prediction: same-sex marriage will be completely legal in all 50 states within 15 years.


I don't know if it will be 15 years...that seems a little too fast unless SCOTUS issues another Loving v. Virginia/Lawrence v. Texas decision. Barring a judicial decision that same-sex marriage bans are unconstitutional, I'd expect somewhere close to half of the country having marriage equality on the books and DOMA to be repealed in that timeframe.
 
2012-05-04 01:28:11 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Another 15, 20 years and maybe they'll figure it out most of the people who are opposed to equal rights for gays will be dead and the rest of us will be able to fix this embarrassment.


Fixed.
 
2012-05-04 01:28:16 PM  
The sad thing is that once the Republicans finally DO realize that it's a dead-end battle, they're going to claim (much as they do now with blacks) that they're the real defenders of gay equality, and it's those damn Democrats who are actually responsible for trying to keep gays down.
 
2012-05-04 01:28:59 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: So damn predictable (from the comments): "Human anatomy and physiology does not naturally provide for homosexual procreation. A man cannot get pregnant, and a woman cannot impregnate another woman. There is not even a physiologically intended method for coitus between the same sexes."

Oh look. It's another conservative with a weird fascination for the mechanics of gay sex. I bet that NEVER manifests itself as a secret obsession with gay porn.


Slash fic, making gay porn acceptable to middle-aged housewives since 1965.
 
2012-05-04 01:29:02 PM  

YoungSwedishBlonde: Jesus Christ, I don't know what's more infuriating. The bawwwwing about tradition or the fact that the author has nary a farking clue as to Rome's history with "barbarians".


None of them do. They crow about original intent with interpreting the Constitution, but try to apply that to the Bible where the concept of agape love between two men or two women didn't exist and it's like the blinders go up.
 
2012-05-04 01:29:52 PM  
Its amazing the religious freedom argument never occurs to these people. Why should their church be able to tell my church what to worship, who can be a minister, who it can marry, etc.

To them, religious freedom means using the government to force everyone to join their religion.
 
2012-05-04 01:30:39 PM  
Sigh. Article was longer than it needed to be, but complete & (mostly) rational. The comments, on the other hand, OMFG.

I really wish there was some way to expose these farkwits to actual persecution, instead of the imagined stuff they go on & on about. Then, perhaps, they could re-align their priorities and get mad about stuff that actually matters instead of how other citizens choose to conduct their personal relationships.


You are not the guardians of morality and ethics in this country. Get over it, and mind your own goddamn business.
 
2012-05-04 01:31:14 PM  

Serious Black: Hey subby, did you read any of the comments to that article? At least 90% of them were people promising to double down on their opposition to marriage equality.


And they will either soon be dead from old age, or come around to the party line when told. The GOP is in crisis, it's stagnating, and those cynical power players in charge know this.

Marriage equality is going to happen, and going to happen soon. The truth is, the American people will not deny two loving, healthy Americans all the legal benefits and protections the commitment of marriage is given.

This country was founded on freedom, and the younger generations haven't forgotten that cause.
 
2012-05-04 01:31:17 PM  
You'd think the party that supports state's rights (when convenient) and individual liberty (when convenient) would embrace gay marriage as the a state's rights and individual liberty issue.

Why the GOP continues to cater to the fundies is beyond me.
 
2012-05-04 01:32:52 PM  
Gay Marriage? Pfft...

Here in Missouri, we're trying to draft laws that would outlaw Gay and Straight Alliances in our public schools.
 
2012-05-04 01:32:56 PM  

czei: Its amazing the religious freedom argument never occurs to these people. Why should their church be able to tell my church what to worship, who can be a minister, who it can marry, etc.

To them, religious freedom means using the government to force everyone to join their religion.


I think the UCC has actually used that argument in favor of gay marriage.

/Course, they perform them anyways...
 
2012-05-04 01:33:48 PM  

Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.


If you're insulted by the word "breeder", you need to have your head examined. Personally, I've always felt that the main advantage of being a straight white male in America is that there's no way for anyone to insult you unless you are, in fact, exactly the what they're accusing you of being. If someone called me a "cracker", I'd just laugh, because it's such a stupid-sounding insult. If they called me a redneck, I'd just be befuddled, because I'm obviously more of a tech geek, and only an idiot could confuse the two. As for "breeder", well, yes. I have bred. I don't really consider it an insult. And frankly, given the level of overpopulation in the world, maybe people SHOULD be reminded to think before they breed.
 
2012-05-04 01:34:07 PM  

make me some tea: My prediction: same-sex marriage will be completely legal in all 50 states within 15 years.


While that would be fabulous, I don't think it'll be quite such a swish.
 
2012-05-04 01:35:44 PM  
I'm opposed to homosexual marriage.

I 'm also opposed to heterosexual marriage.

I just oppose to marriage in general

// Who , me bitter? Never...
 
2012-05-04 01:36:31 PM  

mauricecano: Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.

We're way beyond goodwill at this point in the debate and time has proven again and again that its fun to rile up the conservatives with selectively injected words on fark and watch the reaction.


I'm pro-gay marriage and I find the term breeder insulting.
 
2012-05-04 01:37:07 PM  
You know what the difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals reasons for wanting to marry the folks they love?

Not a damn thing. Not a Göttverdammt thing.

Instead of opposing marriage equality, the GOP should be leading this fight. Should be standing for equality and freedom of religions to marry those in their congregations who want to make stronger ties to one another and their community. In part, this debate ended my relationship with the party. Killed it even.

Hate is not a family value.
 
2012-05-04 01:37:13 PM  
while I have gay friends, I'll be damned if I'm going to ever attend any of their weddings.

If you consider going to a friends wedding to be a hell-worthy offense, then they're not really your friend.
 
2012-05-04 01:37:37 PM  
Because gay rights leaders aren't huge cowards like the democrats. Like political folks on the right, they organize, they're loud, and they're unapologetic. They say, "We're right, you're wrong, we're gonna live this way, and you're gonna have to deal with it." In doing so, they're making progress and changing hearts and minds.
 
2012-05-04 01:37:44 PM  

slayer199: Why the GOP continues to cater to the fundies is beyond me.


It's easy: It was first to get the fundy vote (Moral Majority), and then later the fundies started to take positions of power in the government (ie: Bachmann, Perry) and started to transform the GOP into a party of fundies while the establishment sits idly by because they want their votes.
 
2012-05-04 01:38:05 PM  

Mavent: Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

When I am thinking about ways to promote equality and goodwill, and equal treatment under the law, I achieve this result by employing epithets about the people who live differently than me. That definitely won't provoke a passive-aggressive reaction and set the dialogue back.

If you're insulted by the word "breeder", you need to have your head examined. Personally, I've always felt that the main advantage of being a straight white male in America is that there's no way for anyone to insult you unless you are, in fact, exactly the what they're accusing you of being. If someone called me a "cracker", I'd just laugh, because it's such a stupid-sounding insult. If they called me a redneck, I'd just be befuddled, because I'm obviously more of a tech geek, and only an idiot could confuse the two. As for "breeder", well, yes. I have bred. I don't really consider it an insult. And frankly, given the level of overpopulation in the world, maybe people SHOULD be reminded to think before they breed.


It's not the word itself that I find insulting it is the sneering condescension implied when it is used.
 
2012-05-04 01:38:16 PM  
Ok then if marriage is only about children and not about the 300 or so rights and privileges that marriage has legally then--

How many anti-gay marriage people want to
A) get rid of all those current legal rights heterosexual couples have?
B) Make all marriages without natural child birth within a year annulled?

If you fight for these two issues just as hard as banning gay marriage I will agree you have a valid point. Never had a taker so I think their arguments are lies to cover homophobia.
 
2012-05-04 01:39:03 PM  

aevert: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Another 15, 20 years and maybe they'll figure it out most of the people who are opposed to equal rights for gays will be dead and the rest of us will be able to fix this embarrassment.

Fixed.


You are making the understandable but incorrect assumption that there aren't replacement bigots waiting in the wings.
 
2012-05-04 01:39:36 PM  

Mrtraveler01: It's easy: It was first to get the fundy vote (Moral Majority), and then later the fundies started to take positions of power in the government (ie: Bachmann, Perry) and started to transform the GOP into a party of fundies while the establishment sits idly by because they want their votes.


Sure. But GOP membership is shrinking and they've been shedding independent voters like crazy. It's not a strategy for long-term success.
 
2012-05-04 01:39:50 PM  

meat0918: Serious Black: Hey subby, did you read any of the comments to that article? At least 90% of them were people promising to double down on their opposition to marriage equality.

And they will either soon be dead from old age, or come around to the party line when told. The GOP is in crisis, it's stagnating, and those cynical power players in charge know this.

Marriage equality is going to happen, and going to happen soon. The truth is, the American people will not deny two loving, healthy Americans all the legal benefits and protections the commitment of marriage is given.

This country was founded on freedom, and the younger generations haven't forgotten that cause.


Not to mention, the comments section of "The American Conservative" is hardly an accurate cross-section of the Republican Party. That's like going to Free Republic and thinking the GOP's plan is to shoot all the gays and non-whites.
 
2012-05-04 01:39:57 PM  

Mavent: Elandriel: mauricecano: breeder

As for "breeder", well, yes. I have bred. I don't really consider it an insult. And frankly, given the level of overpopulation in the world, maybe people SHOULD be reminded to think before they breed.


I don't know whether it's genuinely intended as an insult in the first place (for most gays), though I have known some try to use it as such. But if it is, I plan to flip it around.

I'm a breeder doodle dandy! A real penis loving gal!

/stuck a condom on his cap and called it matrimony
//never want kids
 
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