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(MSNBC)   If the Army wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one. Now get on that plane to go Aghanistan and we'll take care of that pesky wife problem for you   (usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 288
    More: Stupid, United States Army, construction zone, Huntington Beach, Mohave County, court officials, Aghanistan, Bullhead City, NBC News  
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5773 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 May 2012 at 11:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-04 03:23:46 PM

lennavan: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.

I don't disagree with any of this, so I'm not sure what your point is?


It seems to me that people are arguing with you out of emotion rather than logic. I think two days is a long time, and I'm sure it seems even longer when you're being detained, but considering the transfers of custody she went through and the different organizations who were dealing with her and getting her entered into their systems, two days is probably not unreasonable.

As for those arguing that it was, apparently, OK for her to drive without a license since the law made it difficult or impossible for her obtain one, I have to wonder if you would feel the same way about someone who had their drivers license suspended or revoked but was still driving. Do they not have the same need to travel that she does, for some reason? If she was forced to drive without a license because she was legally unable to obtain one and driving was necessary for her because there's no public transportation or other options, then wouldn't anyone else also be able to drive without getting a license, or continue to drive after a judge suspends their license, and claim the same thing? You can be sympathetic to the fact that it may have been difficult for her to get one, but that doesn't change the fact that she was required to have one if she wanted to drive, regardless of whether it was possible or difficult for her to do so. Besides all of that, the drivers license wasn't even why she was detained. She was detained for being a suspected illegal immigrant, and was in fact an illegal immigrant, while they determined her status.

I can understand how people might not like the way the laws are designed and want to see them reformed or changed, but I don't see how they could think that the police acted inappropriately in this case under current law.
 
2012-05-04 03:25:19 PM

wedun:
We call them "thieves" not "illegals"

So now you're saying all undocumented immigrants are the same as theives? As if a 4 year old girl had a choice in where her parents brought her and where she grew up?

You are a disgusting person. It's a shame that your ancstors weren't farking deported by the English.


He really is out of control.
 
2012-05-04 03:27:10 PM

Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .


But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?
 
2012-05-04 03:28:48 PM

PsiChick: Once she produced the card, that should have been the end of it. And if you doubt she produced the card, why not doubt that he wasn't just, y'know, living in Arizona and therefore under the impression that either a) racism would impress his boss or b) all brown people are Teh Scary Messicans?


But from my reading of article, it isn't a fact that she gave them any other identification. She claims she did, and she very well might have, but the police seem to be indicating that she didn't.

"Trish Carter, a spokeswoman for the Mohave County Sheriff's Office, said there was no indication in the police report that Sanchez showed her military spouse card. The deputy "followed standard procedure" in turning her over to the Border Patrol, Carter said."
 
2012-05-04 03:29:05 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.


So, she either waits until she's licensed to drive or she drives illegally and faces the same penalties and fines as everyone else who chooses to do so. The other problem with unlicensed driving is that it's unlikely that she's actually covered under any insurance policy.
 
2012-05-04 03:30:32 PM

lennavan: Why would she see a judge? She was being held for being an illegal while they verified her status. Once verified, she was no longer held. Consider it a charges dropped sorta deal.


Nice deflection. Lets slice that bit with the judge off and I'm happy with "You're right so I don't have anything to respond with to that."

lennavan: I'm making the assumption she cared about becoming a US citizen. Since you know, that was what the entire article was about, you know, how her husband joined the military to help her become a US citizen and whatnot. Alternatively they are full of shiat.


You are aware that government agencies are not renowned for their punctuality.

The argument went from "They had years" to some implication now that "They're full of shiat because there's at least 10 months unaccounted for in there by bare minimum requirement."

It's not even worth it at this point because it's obvious you refuse to admit you just possibly may be in error and the suggestion they they're lazy asses for her not already being a citizen has no legitimate basis.

lennavan: She was not deported. The process worked. There is no disconnect.


There was no reason to begin the deportation process. There is the disconnect. The process did not work, because it should not have started.

Let me explain: It should not have started because she has legal status here.

lennavan: I know this is going to make you really really mad but here it is anyways - if you are not a US citizen you are still allowed to be in the country but you have to have your papers on you at all times. It's actually a current federal law:

Permanent residents of the United States eighteen years of age or older must carry their valid physical green card itself at all times. Failing to do so would be a violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act, carrying the possibility of a fine up to $100 and/or imprisonment for up to 30 days for each offense.[2] Only the federal government can impose these penalties.[3]

She does not have a social security card - therefore she is not a US citizen. No bigs, she might still be here legally, let's see the green card? Wait, where is her green card? You are required to have one on you at all times? She did not have a green card? Awkward. She was then suspected of being an illegal immigrant you say?

This is my shocked face :-O


She stated she had her Military Spouse ID card, as has been explained to you several times. Your entire argument for this is based on: I bet she's lying, despite neither the sheriff's office nor immigration even attempting to contact her husband or allow him contact with her. So that entire part of your argument rests on He Said/She Said, in order to begin the legal process of her prosecution under federal law.

Which did not happen, and she was not convicted, and - well hey - never saw a judge. I guess you pointing out that federal law did make the judge part relevant after all.

So your shocked face means very little to me. You are still wrong on every single count and now failing desperately for something to grab on to so you can be right about at least one thing.

I'll give you the one thing you are partially right about so you won't have to feel bad: She should have been appropriately charged for her traffic violation.
 
2012-05-04 03:31:17 PM

lennavan: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.

I don't disagree with any of this, so I'm not sure what your point is?


I was posting that in reference to your green card remark. You have to be 18 to get a green card and it takes an average of 4-5 years to get that. And it takes an average of 5 years to acquire U.S. citizenship.
 
2012-05-04 03:32:41 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?


She married a U.S. citizen and began the process of naturalization, which takes several years. You're required to stay in the country to do so. So the answer to your question actually yes, in a way.
 
2012-05-04 03:33:22 PM

I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: People complaining about this are morons. She married a US citizen. She could have had this taken care of already and then she wouldn't need to worry about it. Instead she decided to ignore her legal issues and continue on, then when she gets pulled over for breaking numerous laws its all "OMG!! NAZIS@@@!!!!".

You sound suspicious. Please present proof of citizenship immediately or we will be forced to detain you.

I have it in my pocket. If asked by law enforcement I could present it. I also wouldn't feel butt hurt for being asked to do so.

You carry proof of citizenship in your pocket at all times. Fascinating. In what form?

Hint: Don't say "Drivers license"

My birth certificate. I used to cross the border a lot and the easiest way to prove who I was to have my birth certificate on me. Even though I don't need it anymore with an enhanced drivers license its still in there. I also had a passport until they came out with the enhanced drivers license and I haven't renewed it.


Is it the long form certificate?
 
2012-05-04 03:33:29 PM

StaleCoffee: tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?

She married a U.S. citizen and began the process of naturalization, which takes several years. You're required to stay in the country to do so. So the answer to your question actually yes, in a way.


she was married at 18?
really??
 
2012-05-04 03:34:46 PM

StaleCoffee: tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?

She married a U.S. citizen and began the process of naturalization, .


btw, then why did she not have any ID or paperwork to show to the police that would show that she is in the process?
 
2012-05-04 03:35:08 PM

vrax: So, she either waits until she's licensed to drive or she drives illegally and faces the same penalties and fines as everyone else who chooses to do so. The other problem with unlicensed driving is that it's unlikely that she's actually covered under any insurance policy.


I know, there are A LOT of people on here who, apparently, have no problem with people driving around without licenses, because.... driving is important or something like that. I'm sure that these same people would all jump to the defense of someone, let's say a white man, who had their drivers license revoked by a judge but was caught driving. I mean, obviously they shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until the suspension/revocation of his license is over, he can't get a drivers license, and it's not reasonable to expect that someone not drive simply because they don't have a drivers license.
 
2012-05-04 03:36:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: StaleCoffee: tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?

She married a U.S. citizen and began the process of naturalization, which takes several years. You're required to stay in the country to do so. So the answer to your question actually yes, in a way.

she was married at 18?
really??


Yes, some people do that. They even have a 3 year old kid, not 5 year old, for their 4 year marriage.

I know, the implied restraint is the most unbelievable part, to me.
 
2012-05-04 03:38:26 PM

runin800m: PsiChick: Once she produced the card, that should have been the end of it. And if you doubt she produced the card, why not doubt that he wasn't just, y'know, living in Arizona and therefore under the impression that either a) racism would impress his boss or b) all brown people are Teh Scary Messicans?

But from my reading of article, it isn't a fact that she gave them any other identification. She claims she did, and she very well might have, but the police seem to be indicating that she didn't.

"Trish Carter, a spokeswoman for the Mohave County Sheriff's Office, said there was no indication in the police report that Sanchez showed her military spouse card. The deputy "followed standard procedure" in turning her over to the Border Patrol, Carter said."


Again: When they have every motive to lie (looking good, standing in solidarity with their brother, no one losing a job), why do you assume they aren't lying? If I offered you a hundred dollars to make a pizza, you'd make a pizza, right? Not that different.
 
2012-05-04 03:38:40 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: StaleCoffee: tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?

She married a U.S. citizen and began the process of naturalization, .

btw, then why did she not have any ID or paperwork to show to the police that would show that she is in the process?


She stated that she did.

Even so, it appears they never tried to contact anyone to verify before starting the deportation process either way.
 
2012-05-04 03:50:23 PM
Am I the only one here who thinks that although the police should have had better cause to pull her over, the fact that they scrutinize the legitimacy of people without a DL or SSC is just fine by me?
 
2012-05-04 03:54:12 PM

ChaffedTitty: Am I the only one here who thinks that although the police should have had better cause to pull her over,

an illegal turn is an okay reason to pull someone over.

the fact that they scrutinize the legitimacy of people without a DL or SSC is just fine by me?

it is racist

 
2012-05-04 04:09:39 PM

skullkrusher: Giltric: Aren't there mechanisms in place for situations when a citizen marries a non citizen?


They were married years ago......way to procrastinate....of course its all Arizonas fault and not the lazy illegal immigrant who tried cutting through a parking lot to avoid construction traffic.

at least you got to say "lazy illegal immigrant" though


What would you call someone who hasn't gotten their shiat together in regards to citizenship after 4 years? Industrious? Diligent?
 
2012-05-04 04:13:48 PM
As many of you don't understand the Legal Process to getting a Green Card for Legal Residency here is a flow chart.

Link

Now after that you have 5-7 towards citizenship.

So what part of LEGAL immigration do you not understand???


If at any point in the process paperwork gets lost, wrong forms go to wrong depts (USCIS, DOL, SS etc.) or right department wrong location, you start over again.

How about we fix LEGAL immigration before we get all up in arms about illegal immigration???

Many LEGAL immigrants become illegal during this process and don't even know it. Then you have to pay the fees just to get the paper work processed. A couple of grand $$$. If there is a problem you retain a lawyer, a good one will cost you $250 hr. Because many of these people live such extravagant lifestyles this of course is so easy, right. I mean they're not paying taxes, right????

Myself and my wife have between us 12 years of post secondary education. Having gone through the process, with English (English English) as my first language, it is not as easy as many of you dickwads think.

Go to any US immigration office and I guarantee you the people yelling at the workers there are US Citizens who don't understand the process; nor, the history of their own country.
 
2012-05-04 04:14:49 PM

Giltric: skullkrusher: Giltric: Aren't there mechanisms in place for situations when a citizen marries a non citizen?


They were married years ago......way to procrastinate....of course its all Arizonas fault and not the lazy illegal immigrant who tried cutting through a parking lot to avoid construction traffic.

at least you got to say "lazy illegal immigrant" though

What would you call someone who hasn't gotten their shiat together in regards to citizenship after 4 years? Industrious? Diligent?


Poor.
 
2012-05-04 04:17:28 PM

vrax: Giltric: skullkrusher: Giltric: Aren't there mechanisms in place for situations when a citizen marries a non citizen?


They were married years ago......way to procrastinate....of course its all Arizonas fault and not the lazy illegal immigrant who tried cutting through a parking lot to avoid construction traffic.

at least you got to say "lazy illegal immigrant" though

What would you call someone who hasn't gotten their shiat together in regards to citizenship after 4 years? Industrious? Diligent?

Poor.


How much does it cost to request, fill out, and submit the paperwork?
 
2012-05-04 04:26:07 PM

Giltric: vrax: Giltric: skullkrusher: Giltric: Aren't there mechanisms in place for situations when a citizen marries a non citizen?


They were married years ago......way to procrastinate....of course its all Arizonas fault and not the lazy illegal immigrant who tried cutting through a parking lot to avoid construction traffic.

at least you got to say "lazy illegal immigrant" though

What would you call someone who hasn't gotten their shiat together in regards to citizenship after 4 years? Industrious? Diligent?

Poor.

How much does it cost to request, fill out, and submit the paperwork?


I-130 Filing Fee = $355
I-485, I-131, I-765 Filing Fee $930+ $80 Biometrics = $1,010
Medical Exam by USCIS designated doctors; some where from $150 to $200 if you insurance doesn't cover and all the vaccination up to $300 need to take all the shots and insurance doesn't cover.
I-751 Filing Fee $465 + $80 Biometrics = $545

Attorney's fees if necessary for green card process = somewhere from $2,000 to 4000.

Also, you need to prove that you make enough money to support your foreign spouse, which is 125% above of Federal poverty line, that is $17,112 for the household of 2 in most of states.

That's just for the 2 yr probation process. After that you continue with other fees.
 
2012-05-04 04:57:41 PM
I don't drive when I don't have my license on me, let alone if I don't have it at all (had it suspended briefly at 17). If you don't have a license then you don't drive. That's it. Driving isnt a farking right. Plus you would think that if you did drive you would be extra careful. At any rate, why didn't she just go to Germany with the hubby? I'm moving to Germany with mine even though he is deploying. Better than staying in a country illegally.

/white and have been pulled over and ticketed for violations other than speeding.
 
2012-05-04 05:00:48 PM

wotthefark: As many of you don't understand the Legal Process to getting a Green Card for Legal Residency here is a flow chart.

Link

Now after that you have 5-7 towards citizenship.

So what part of LEGAL immigration do you not understand???

If at any point in the process paperwork gets lost, wrong forms go to wrong depts (USCIS, DOL, SS etc.) or right department wrong location, you start over again.

How about we fix LEGAL immigration before we get all up in arms about illegal immigration???

Many LEGAL immigrants become illegal during this process and don't even know it. Then you have to pay the fees just to get the paper work processed. A couple of grand $$$. If there is a problem you retain a lawyer, a good one will cost you $250 hr. Because many of these people live such extravagant lifestyles this of course is so easy, right. I mean they're not paying taxes, right????

Myself and my wife have between us 12 years of post secondary education. Having gone through the process, with English (English English) as my first language, it is not as easy as many of you dickwads think.

Go to any US immigration office and I guarantee you the people yelling at the workers there are US Citizens who don't understand the process; nor, the history of their own country.


I wholeheartedly agree .
 
2012-05-04 05:04:11 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?


tenpoundsofcheese: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. .

But when she was 18 she had plenty of ability to go back to Mexico and no longer be here illegally.

Or are you implying that she was forced to stay here?


If she wanted to become a U.S. citizen, then yes. First thing that she has to do is apply for a green card. Since the article says that she & her husband were in the process of getting U.S. citizenship for her, I'm assuming that's what they're doing now.

After that's acquired (and getting a green card can take as much as 4-5 years time), the next step is applying for U.S. citizenship. For both you have to be residing in the U.S. Acquiring U.S. citizenship can take as long as 5 years in most cases. Longer for both processes if the immigration office loses/misplaces paperwork, etc.
 
2012-05-04 05:27:58 PM

PsiChick: Again: When they have every motive to lie (looking good, standing in solidarity with their brother, no one losing a job), why do you assume they aren't lying? If I offered you a hundred dollars to make a pizza, you'd make a pizza, right? Not that different.


Why would I assume that they are lying? If you want to get into motives for lying, then, from my perspective, she has at least as much motive to lie as the police would. It seems to me that all the police really did in this situation was turn her over to ICE when they discovered she wasn't a citizen and couldn't show her green card to prove she was here legally. Maybe I'm not understanding something correctly, but isn't that exactly what the police are supposed to do anytime they are dealing with someone they know isn't a citizen and can't show/doesn't have a green card? I mean, would it even matter if it was a known fact that she showed them her spouse ID card or whatever it's called? Maybe this is a big assumption for me to make, but I would assume that they are supposed to turn over anyone they know isn't a citizen to ICE if that person can't show a green card and then let ICE deal with determining their legal status and deciding what to do with them. Does anyone know if there is anything else, such as the military spouse id thing, that can satisfy the always having green card on you requirement, or are the police simply supposed to turn you over to ICE if you don't have your green card, period.

Regardless, I'm not saying that I think she's lying but I'm not ready to take it as a fact that she showed that to them when the police don't are disputing it. Doesn't she also have motive for lying and saying she presented it, even if she didn't? Wouldn't she also want to present the situation so that she looks as blameless as possible, just like the police? I just don't see automatically believing one party over the other in this situation.
 
2012-05-04 07:01:22 PM

wotthefark: Giltric: vrax: Giltric: skullkrusher: Giltric: Aren't there mechanisms in place for situations when a citizen marries a non citizen?


They were married years ago......way to procrastinate....of course its all Arizonas fault and not the lazy illegal immigrant who tried cutting through a parking lot to avoid construction traffic.

at least you got to say "lazy illegal immigrant" though

What would you call someone who hasn't gotten their shiat together in regards to citizenship after 4 years? Industrious? Diligent?

Poor.

How much does it cost to request, fill out, and submit the paperwork?

I-130 Filing Fee = $355
I-485, I-131, I-765 Filing Fee $930+ $80 Biometrics = $1,010
Medical Exam by USCIS designated doctors; some where from $150 to $200 if you insurance doesn't cover and all the vaccination up to $300 need to take all the shots and insurance doesn't cover.
I-751 Filing Fee $465 + $80 Biometrics = $545

Attorney's fees if necessary for green card process = somewhere from $2,000 to 4000.

Also, you need to prove that you make enough money to support your foreign spouse, which is 125% above of Federal poverty line, that is $17,112 for the household of 2 in most of states.

That's just for the 2 yr probation process. After that you continue with other fees.


You forgot ......Becoming a US citizen: Priceless.

Just think of it this way......they pay that much cause others come here illegally...it should be like the analogy in regards to illegals or the uninsured using hospitals and sticking the rest of us insured with the bill.


People are willing to die to come here in order to breathe in the freedom that our country offers....2k to 4k is pretty cheap, they will probably more then make up for it in entitlements.
 
2012-05-04 08:08:49 PM

runin800m: PsiChick: Again: When they have every motive to lie (looking good, standing in solidarity with their brother, no one losing a job), why do you assume they aren't lying? If I offered you a hundred dollars to make a pizza, you'd make a pizza, right? Not that different.

Why would I assume that they are lying? If you want to get into motives for lying, then, from my perspective, she has at least as much motive to lie as the police would. It seems to me that all the police really did in this situation was turn her over to ICE when they discovered she wasn't a citizen and couldn't show her green card to prove she was here legally. Maybe I'm not understanding something correctly, but isn't that exactly what the police are supposed to do anytime they are dealing with someone they know isn't a citizen and can't show/doesn't have a green card? I mean, would it even matter if it was a known fact that she showed them her spouse ID card or whatever it's called? Maybe this is a big assumption for me to make, but I would assume that they are supposed to turn over anyone they know isn't a citizen to ICE if that person can't show a green card and then let ICE deal with determining their legal status and deciding what to do with them. Does anyone know if there is anything else, such as the military spouse id thing, that can satisfy the always having green card on you requirement, or are the police simply supposed to turn you over to ICE if you don't have your green card, period.

Regardless, I'm not saying that I think she's lying but I'm not ready to take it as a fact that she showed that to them when the police don't are disputing it. Doesn't she also have motive for lying and saying she presented it, even if she didn't? Wouldn't she also want to present the situation so that she looks as blameless as possible, just like the police? I just don't see automatically believing one party over the other in this situation.


And yet you believe the police told the truth and not the woman...

/I understand you're coming from an authoritarian mindset, but really, dude. Don't be a hypocrite.
 
2012-05-05 01:00:32 AM

PsiChick: And yet you believe the police told the truth and not the woman...

/I understand you're coming from an authoritarian mindset, but really, dude. Don't be a hypocrite.


No, I don't believe the police told the truth and not her. I said that I wasn't ready to just take it as fact, since the police spokesperson disputed that. If you actually want to know the truth about what I believe, the specific wording that the spokesperson used actually made me more inclined to believe the woman did show the military spouse ID. I felt like she was careful to not actually directly dispute that the woman showed the ID and just said something to the effect of the police report not mentioning her showing another ID.

That is part of the reason that I asked if it was possible that it was simply standard procedure for them to turn people over to ICE if they know that they aren't citizens and can't show a green card. With what little I know of the situation from that article, I would guess (and this is nothing more than a guess) that they stopped her and she did show them the military ID that she claims she showed them but they weren't sure what to do in the situation and just turned her over to ICE and let them handle it. For whatever this is worth, my mom works in records at a regional jail and sees illegal aliens brought in on a fairly regular basis. She said that when they bring someone into the jail that they know, or believe, is an illegal alien then they immediately call ICE to come and deal with the person. At that point, the jail has basically washed their hands of the situation and has absolutely nothing else to do with the person other than waiting and holding them until someone comes to get them, which she says doesn't usually happen very quickly.
 
2012-05-05 01:34:38 AM

I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: People complaining about this are morons. She married a US citizen. She could have had this taken care of already and then she wouldn't need to worry about it. Instead she decided to ignore her legal issues and continue on, then when she gets pulled over for breaking numerous laws its all "OMG!! NAZIS@@@!!!!".

You sound suspicious. Please present proof of citizenship immediately or we will be forced to detain you.

I have it in my pocket. If asked by law enforcement I could present it. I also wouldn't feel butt hurt for being asked to do so.

You carry proof of citizenship in your pocket at all times. Fascinating. In what form?

Hint: Don't say "Drivers license"

My birth certificate. I used to cross the border a lot and the easiest way to prove who I was to have my birth certificate on me. Even though I don't need it anymore with an enhanced drivers license its still in there. I also had a passport until they came out with the enhanced drivers license and I haven't renewed it.

So you believe that every single person should carry their certified birth certificate with them 100% of the time and happily show it to any law enforcement official that demands to see it or face being detained?

Yes I do think that you should carry around or have a means to verify your citizenship because that would ultimately be the smart thing to do.

Additionally you should be able to prove your citizenship one way or the other. In this case, she couldn't prove her citizenship because... wait for it... she wasn't a citizen. She wasn't detained because she was Mexican, she was detained because she could not provide any ID at all when asked what her soc sec number was she couldn't provide that either. Sounds like the police were willing to go the extra mile by running her social. It seems to me this law worked as intended.

To think that being able to provide proof of citizenship is some sort of burden is ludicrous. Would you want to walk around any other country on the face of the planet without a passport if you were not a citizen?


Well, not that I think being able to provide proof of citizenship is really a ridiculous burden, but yes, I do walk around lots of other countries on this planet without my passport. Only the authoritarian ones do I carry a copy, for example living in Russia or Kazakhstan or visiting SE Asia. Most everywhere in Europe doesn't have such a stick up their ass about providing ID, living in the UK I was never once asked by the police for any form of identification.
 
2012-05-05 01:29:10 PM

PsiChick: Once she produced the card, that should have been the end of it. And if you doubt she produced the card, why not doubt that he wasn't just, y'know, living in Arizona and therefore under the impression that either a) racism would impress his boss or b) all brown people are Teh Scary Messicans?


How the fark did you go from "the cops and lady have different stories about a single specific detail - whether she produced her military wife ID card" to "ALL BROWN PEOPLE ARE TEH SCARY MESSICANS?"

Holy crap is your argument pathetic.
 
2012-05-05 01:31:55 PM

Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.

I don't disagree with any of this, so I'm not sure what your point is?

I was posting that in reference to your green card remark. You have to be 18 to get a green card and it takes an average of 4-5 years to get that. And it takes an average of 5 years to acquire U.S. citizenship.


Why would you take the average of everyone to get a green card? She is married to a US citizen. It doesn't take 4-5 years for the spouse of a US citizen to get a green card.
 
2012-05-05 01:37:33 PM

StaleCoffee: The argument went from "They had years" to some implication now that "They're full of shiat because there's at least 10 months unaccounted for in there by bare minimum requirement."

It's not even worth it at this point because it's obvious you refuse to admit you just possibly may be in error and the suggestion they they're lazy asses for her not already being a citizen has no legitimate basis.


My argument is and always will be two days of this lady in immigration limbo is not poutraegous. She had it comin. She had plenty of opportunity to prevent it, multiple ways. She could have gotten a green card 4 years ago. She could have filed her citizen papers 10 months ago. She could have NOT DRIVEN A CAR WITHOUT A LICENSE. All of these things would have kept her out of jail for two days. Or as you put it "fark the cops."

StaleCoffee: She stated she had her Military Spouse ID card, as has been explained to you several times. Your entire argument for this is based on: I bet she's lying, despite neither the sheriff's office nor immigration even attempting to contact her husband or allow him contact with her. So that entire part of your argument rests on He Said/She Said, in order to begin the legal process of her prosecution under federal law.


As does yours. Don't you get that? She stated she had it, the cops had no record of it whatosever. Your case is a tinfoil hat "OH MY GOD ALL COPS ARE RACISTS ASSHOLES, CLERALY THERE WAS A BIG SCARY CONSPIRACY AGAINST BROWN PEOPLE AND THEY PURPOSELY IGNORED HER MILITARY SPOUSE ID CARD."

I dunno man, your star witness you find so credible was just busted for driving without a license. She also admitted she has been living in teh country illegally for over a decade. But you go ahead and hedge your bets on her and your tinfoil hat shiat.
 
2012-05-05 08:54:21 PM

lennavan: PsiChick: Once she produced the card, that should have been the end of it. And if you doubt she produced the card, why not doubt that he wasn't just, y'know, living in Arizona and therefore under the impression that either a) racism would impress his boss or b) all brown people are Teh Scary Messicans?

How the fark did you go from "the cops and lady have different stories about a single specific detail - whether she produced her military wife ID card" to "ALL BROWN PEOPLE ARE TEH SCARY MESSICANS?"

Holy crap is your argument pathetic.


Remember TFA? Where a single mother was taken away from her child for two days because, according to the police, there was 'confusion' over her legality?

Now remember the past few years when we've all been watching Arizona decide they really, really, really hate brown people?

Yeah, that's how.
 
2012-05-05 08:55:48 PM

runin800m: PsiChick: And yet you believe the police told the truth and not the woman...

/I understand you're coming from an authoritarian mindset, but really, dude. Don't be a hypocrite.

No, I don't believe the police told the truth and not her. I said that I wasn't ready to just take it as fact, since the police spokesperson disputed that. If you actually want to know the truth about what I believe, the specific wording that the spokesperson used actually made me more inclined to believe the woman did show the military spouse ID. I felt like she was careful to not actually directly dispute that the woman showed the ID and just said something to the effect of the police report not mentioning her showing another ID.

That is part of the reason that I asked if it was possible that it was simply standard procedure for them to turn people over to ICE if they know that they aren't citizens and can't show a green card. With what little I know of the situation from that article, I would guess (and this is nothing more than a guess) that they stopped her and she did show them the military ID that she claims she showed them but they weren't sure what to do in the situation and just turned her over to ICE and let them handle it. For whatever this is worth, my mom works in records at a regional jail and sees illegal aliens brought in on a fairly regular basis. She said that when they bring someone into the jail that they know, or believe, is an illegal alien then they immediately call ICE to come and deal with the person. At that point, the jail has basically washed their hands of the situation and has absolutely nothing else to do with the person other than waiting and holding them until someone comes to get them, which she says doesn't usually happen very quickly.


Fair enough.
 
2012-05-05 11:20:19 PM

lennavan: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.

I don't disagree with any of this, so I'm not sure what your point is?

I was posting that in reference to your green card remark. You have to be 18 to get a green card and it takes an average of 4-5 years to get that. And it takes an average of 5 years to acquire U.S. citizenship.

Why would you take the average of everyone to get a green card? She is married to a US citizen. It doesn't take 4-5 years for the spouse of a US citizen to get a green card.


She has to get a green card before applying to acquire U.S. citizenship.
 
2012-05-06 04:55:36 AM
I'm in the dot-mil and married to a foreign national, so I'm getting a kick etc.

There are, however, a few differences between this case and my own:

1) We researched the immigration paperwork/process before even getting married.
2) Once married, we completed the whole application process and had a "provisional" green card in hand within weeks (even without the advantage of having an "anchor baby" like these guys.
3) THEN she got her driver's license.
4) THEN she started driving.
5) Two years later, when we were able to prove that it wasn't a marriage of convenience, she got full permanent residency.

I'm not going to say that the application process is not time consuming (nor that it's not incredibly expensive -- close to $1k, IIRC).

C'mon, Pfc, the DHS even makes available Spanish translations of the forms' instructions.

This family's whole situation could have been averted if they'd tuned their "laziness" and "incompetence" switches down from the 8-10 range to 2-4... and if this Soldier's chain of command had been a little more intrusive before shipping him out. It's a perfect storm of Fail.
 
2012-05-06 09:48:42 AM

shift_DAWG: This family's whole situation could have been averted if they'd tuned their "laziness" and "incompetence" switches down from the 8-10 range to 2-4...


This is what we like to call "victim blaming"

As in, you're "blaming the victim" for an abuse they recieved at the hands of police. You're saying that it was okay for the police to treat them the way they did, and that's just wrong.
 
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