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(MSNBC)   If the Army wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one. Now get on that plane to go Aghanistan and we'll take care of that pesky wife problem for you   (usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 288
    More: Stupid, United States Army, construction zone, Huntington Beach, Mohave County, court officials, Aghanistan, Bullhead City, NBC News  
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5773 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 May 2012 at 11:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-04 01:36:32 PM  

wedun: You need to be certified to fly a plane, but you can only get an airplane certification if you are the living descendent of a former pilot. Otherwise they will find you, and they will lock you up and take your plane away.


So I can't legally be a pilot, so of course that means I have a right to fly a plane anyway because I really want to, and if I get caught I shouldn't face any consequences.
 
2012-05-04 01:40:12 PM  

wedun: Okay let's do some choose your own adventure style roleplaying.

You are an undocumented immigrant and the mother of a baby girl.

Do you:

a. Wait indefinately for the right to live a normal life?
b. Risk offending the reactionary, anti-immigrant elements of this country?


c. Not commit traffic infractions while driving without a license?
 
2012-05-04 01:40:22 PM  
Mexicans bombed the WTC!
 
2012-05-04 01:41:27 PM  
A propos of nothing, I grew up in Arizona but I have no idea where Mohave County is.
 
2012-05-04 01:43:21 PM  

StaleCoffee: Either you're trolling or just a complete ass to think that 2 days silent detention is okay for a traffic violation.


Either you're trolling or just a complete ass to completely forget she is in this country illegally and that is why she was detained for 2 days.

StaleCoffee: She was 4 years old, and as I explained, legal residency takes awhile.


How long does it take to become a resident after you marry someone?
How long has she been married?
When was her paperwork to become a resident filed?

Shame what just happened to your argument.

StaleCoffee: She had identification.


She said she did. The cops said she didn't.

StaleCoffee: When they toss your stupid ass in lockup because you forgot your wallet I'll try to shed a tear.


Wait, wait. Now you think this woman was locked up because she forgot her wallet? Either you're trolling or you're a complete ass.

StaleCoffee: The long form birth certificate was part of a discussion earlier in this thread. Apparently you're incapable of researching anything more than five minutes old, I guess.


Your idea of "research" is to read and apply different Fark.com forum discussions to this current discussion? Wow.

StaleCoffee: It shouldn't have taken two days detention without bail


I also am shocked that a woman who illegally immigrated here did not get bail. I don't know why not!

StaleCoffee: it's okay to detain someone for 2 days because they're illegal, even though it's more or less next to impossible to prove anyone is illegal


Well, you mean other than she openly admits she entered the country illegally? That was super tough.
 
2012-05-04 01:43:48 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: if I get caught I shouldn't face any consequences.


It's clear that you don't have any immigrants in your life when you say shiat like this. You will tacitly support a flawed system that erects giant barriers to other people. I bet you don't know any gay folks either and you're completely fine with gay marriage being illegal. If you're religious, understand that when pain and misfortune falls upon you, there will be a reason god is not happy with you.
 
2012-05-04 01:44:12 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: wedun: You need to be certified to fly a plane, but you can only get an airplane certification if you are the living descendent of a former pilot. Otherwise they will find you, and they will lock you up and take your plane away.

So I can't legally be a pilot, so of course that means I have a right to fly a plane anyway because I really want to, and if I get caught I shouldn't face any consequences.


You should be locked away for two days where nobody can contact you while they deport you, until someone makes enough noise to get them to look for your identification.
 
2012-05-04 01:46:02 PM  

lennavan: Well, you mean other than she openly admits she entered the country illegally? That was super tough.


If you are a firm believer in the punishment and deportation of undocumented immigrants...

I seriously wish your ancestors were punished and deported so I wouldn't have to deal with your racist bullshiat.
 
2012-05-04 01:47:56 PM  

Magorn: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: Philip Francis Queeg: I alone am best: People complaining about this are morons. She married a US citizen. She could have had this taken care of already and then she wouldn't need to worry about it. Instead she decided to ignore her legal issues and continue on, then when she gets pulled over for breaking numerous laws its all "OMG!! NAZIS@@@!!!!".

You sound suspicious. Please present proof of citizenship immediately or we will be forced to detain you.

I have it in my pocket. If asked by law enforcement I could present it. I also wouldn't feel butt hurt for being asked to do so.

You carry proof of citizenship in your pocket at all times. Fascinating. In what form?

Hint: Don't say "Drivers license"

As was established in Oral Arguments in from of the US Supreme Court about two weeks ago, if you are a native-born US citizen who has never had the need to obtain a passport, there is NO document that exists by which you can PROVE you are a US citizen. Apparently even a birth Certificate does not suffice since in cases of adoption they can be altered to reflect the adopted parents names as the natural parents


Citation please?
(really. I haven't heard of this and would really like to read up on it. (I really wish I was asking for a citation because I don't believe you (no offense) but they way things have been going, I'm not surprised by this.)
 
2012-05-04 01:48:08 PM  

PsiChick: lennavan: PsiChick: Because clearly trying to earn citizenship for your wife and not having public transportation to rely on to take care of your child is a crime.

Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

PsiChick: This was the result of a culture that is ridiculously racist.

Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

PsiChick: This wasn't the police policy at all.

Arresting people who commit crimes. Police policy?
Yes/No

PsiChick: It could have, and should have, been prevented.

How should we prevent arresting illegal immigrants who commit crimes?

1) Immigrate legally
2) Stop committing crimes
3) Fark the police

Clearly, yes\no questions and black-and-white thinking makes complete and total sense when the woman was going out of her way to not commit a crime and had circumstances conspiring against her.


Yes, there is a lot of gray area when it comes to driving without a license being a crime. That is definitely not a yes/no issue.

Further, I do not have a license and I want to make sure I go out of my way to not commit a crime, so clearly I'm going to go drive a car. That makes sense.

xbradtc.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-04 01:50:32 PM  

wedun: It's clear that you don't have any immigrants in your life when you say shiat like this.


Ha!

You will tacitly support a flawed system that erects giant barriers to other people. I bet you don't know any gay folks either and you're completely fine with gay marriage being illegal. If you're religious, understand that when pain and misfortune falls upon you, there will be a reason god is not happy with you.

Who said it is flawed, the people who want to break the law. The only reason it is "flawed" is because it was not enforced for over 25 years. Can I declare the speed limit flawed so I can go as fast as I want?

StaleCoffee: You should be locked away for two days where nobody can contact you while they deport you, until someone makes enough noise to get them to look for your identification.


If I choose to break laws I understand that there will be consequences if I'm caught.
 
2012-05-04 01:51:25 PM  

Magorn: Somebody who supports AZ's state bill 1070 step up to the plate an answer a question for me:

The authorities discover that someone is here "illegally". Further investigation reveals that they are gainfully employed, productive, tax-paying citizens with no criminal record. Why SHOULDN'T our response be to grant them a green card on the spot and start them on a path to citizenship? They've proven their ability to live within our society and laws and make postive contribution. Other than rank racism, what possible reason would we have for not welcoming them to stay at that point? (and BTW if your kin got here before about 1920 that's how it worked for them )


A real, non-snarky, devil's advocate answer? Hmmm....

Here's 3:

1. Chances are low that the subject has been a "productive citizen." Ignoring drug mules and illegal border crossings the subjects most likely still crossed the border illegally and just because you don't have a record doesn't mean they haven't simply "gotten away with it." "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to individuals, but not necessarily to groups or we wouldn't have laws against m-80 firecrackers.

2. For the same meta-reason people pay unemployment insurance and taxes in general. If people follow the jobs it further stands to reason they will only come to America as long as times are good, if times get lean again they will jump ship and run back to Mexico (it's actually happened) and essentially be reaping benefits without sowing beforehand.

3. Light racism (as opposed to rank racism). If you accept (as many do) the theory that we as a species are overpopulated and if your haplogroup has managed to get its reproduction "under control," then having the offspring of another, "uncontrolled" haplogroup move in and start over-populating YOUR territory instead of locking them into their territory to force their population to start controlling its numbers makes logical sense. It's still racist though.

I didn't say they were good reasons.

*"haplogroup" is used instead of "race" because it sounds science-y
 
2012-05-04 01:53:27 PM  

wedun: lennavan: Well, you mean other than she openly admits she entered the country illegally? That was super tough.

If you are a firm believer in the punishment and deportation of undocumented immigrants...

I seriously wish your ancestors were punished and deported so I wouldn't have to deal with your racist bullshiat.


Uh, I'm actually okay with deporting people of all races. By the way, my ancestors immigrated here legally. HOLYSHOCKANDAWE
 
2012-05-04 01:56:43 PM  

lennavan: PsiChick: lennavan: PsiChick:

Clearly, yes\no questions and black-and-white thinking makes complete and total sense when the woman was going out of her way to not commit a crime and had circumstances conspiring against her.

Yes, there is a lot of gray area when it comes to driving without a license being a crime. That is definitely not a yes/no issue.

Further, I do not have a license and I want to make sure I go out of my way to not commit a crime, so clearly I'm going to go drive a car. That makes sense.

[xbradtc.files.wordpress.com image 640x512]


Fine. I will draw you a damn chart.

First, the woman was brought to the US as a child. She was not able to enter legally because she was, hey, a small child, which is a small humanoid too stupid to typically be able to put their clothes on right-side-out.

Of course, as an adult, she had a choice in the matter--she then went to correct this problem. However, immigration takes a very long time. One of my friends has spent the past 5 years at a lowball estimate doing this. So in the meantime, in an area with no public transportation, she cannot legally obtain a driver's license.

Driving, if you don't know, is very very important if you do not live in a city. In a high desert like Arizona, the major disasters you need to be prepared for are drought and earthquakes. There are typically very few roads in high desert 'towns'--my own town, in the neighboring state, has a major river with exactly one bridge, and five incidences of the bridge being taken out and stranding the people on the other side of the occasionally-flooding river. (Flash floods are occasionally part of the desert climate. Ironic, but true.)

This woman was doing everything in her power to balance legal actions with safety for her family. Was picking up paper plates part of that? No--but the police policy for situations like this, as kindly stated by another Farker, was to say 'get a license as soon as possible' and drop the matter, not to farking threaten her with deportation and force her to abandon her daughter. The police themselves violated their own rules. This woman was certainly no saint, but the majority of the blame can be placed squarely on the people who violated their own rules.

/Notice how all of this was conveniently outlined in TFA...
 
2012-05-04 01:56:48 PM  

lennavan: StaleCoffee: it's okay to detain someone for 2 days because they're illegal, even though it's more or less next to impossible to prove anyone is illegal

Well, you mean other than she openly admits she entered the country illegally? That was super tough.


She was a child when it happened (ergo not a crime SHE committed), and now that she's married she's here legally.

Didn't argue the rest because the rest wasn't bolded. I am lazy despite being pasty white!
 
2012-05-04 01:59:50 PM  

lennavan: StaleCoffee: Either you're trolling or just a complete ass to think that 2 days silent detention is okay for a traffic violation.

Either you're trolling or just a complete ass to completely forget she is in this country illegally and that is why she was detained for 2 days.


Only, she's here legally, working towards resident status.


StaleCoffee: She was 4 years old, and as I explained, legal residency takes awhile.

How long does it take to become a resident after you marry someone?


3 years minimum.


How long has she been married?


4 years. It doesn't magically come to pass just because time elapses. The process moves to the next steps. Guess what? They did so.


When was her paperwork to become a resident filed?


March.


Shame what just happened to your argument.


Other than demonstrating your ignorance I don't see anything wrong with my argument.


StaleCoffee: She had identification.

She said she did. The cops said she didn't.


At which point they need to investigate and verify. It does not take two days and several prison transfers to do that.


StaleCoffee: When they toss your stupid ass in lockup because you forgot your wallet I'll try to shed a tear.

Wait, wait. Now you think this woman was locked up because she forgot her wallet? Either you're trolling or you're a complete ass.


According to the police. According to her she had her identification and showed it to them.

Have to break this into two posts, so here.
 
2012-05-04 02:00:35 PM  
And, continued.


StaleCoffee: The long form birth certificate was part of a discussion earlier in this thread. Apparently you're incapable of researching anything more than five minutes old, I guess.

Your idea of "research" is to read and apply different Fark.com forum discussions to this current discussion? Wow.


I suppose that was unnecessary, sure. Fact remains it was not hyperbole. It was meant to contrast "papers please" expectations.


StaleCoffee: It shouldn't have taken two days detention without bail

I also am shocked that a woman who illegally immigrated here did not get bail. I don't know why not!


I'm not shocked to discover you don't know the difference between "illegal immigrant" and "here legally."


StaleCoffee: it's okay to detain someone for 2 days because they're illegal, even though it's more or less next to impossible to prove anyone is illegal

Well, you mean other than she openly admits she entered the country illegally? That was super tough.


Again, you appear to not understand the difference between "illegal immigrant" and "here legally."
 
2012-05-04 02:03:09 PM  

DrewCurtisJr:

StaleCoffee: You should be locked away for two days where nobody can contact you while they deport you, until someone makes enough noise to get them to look for your identification.

If I choose to break laws I understand that there will be consequences if I'm caught.


Yes.

It's the magnitude of consequences here that is in question, not that there are any.
 
2012-05-04 02:04:28 PM  

skullkrusher: Lost Thought 00: Krymson Tyde: Jackson Herring: Christ. I was having dinner in a Mexican restaurant last night, and some tiny-dicked shiatweasel walked in wearing this farking shirt right here:

I wonder if he enjoyed his spit and feces burrito?

no, no. The cooking staff was probably all white teenagers. Mexicans staff the upscale itlaian and seafood joints

shock of my young life was going to a Chinese restaurant for the first time in Worcester, MA while in college and seeing that everyone working there was a roundeye.


I'm a health inspector; my biggest Chinese restaurant's kitchen is staffed almost entirely by Mexicans, including the sushi chef.
 
2012-05-04 02:05:05 PM  

lennavan: I can't think of a single reason why an officer might take an illegal immigrant driving around in a car without a drivers license into custody either.


I can. She was driving without a license. This is the part of the article you either didn't read or don't want to address.

She was turned over to the Border Patrol, which then handed her over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE began legal proceedings to deport her, according to her lawyer, immigration attorney Richard Green of Huntington Beach, Calif.

'Parole in place'

Green told msnbc.com that Sanchez should never have been turned over to immigration agents in the first place because she produced a military spouse ID card.


It shouldn't have taken two days to release after she produced the military spousal ID.
 
2012-05-04 02:11:00 PM  

Krymson Tyde: skullkrusher: Lost Thought 00: Krymson Tyde: Jackson Herring: Christ. I was having dinner in a Mexican restaurant last night, and some tiny-dicked shiatweasel walked in wearing this farking shirt right here:

I wonder if he enjoyed his spit and feces burrito?

no, no. The cooking staff was probably all white teenagers. Mexicans staff the upscale itlaian and seafood joints

shock of my young life was going to a Chinese restaurant for the first time in Worcester, MA while in college and seeing that everyone working there was a roundeye.

I'm a health inspector; my biggest Chinese restaurant's kitchen is staffed almost entirely by Mexicans, including the sushi chef.


Let me guess, their menu includes sushi with avocado.

/Latin America's been doing interesting things with Sushi
//Not really a sushi fan, but I know some
 
2012-05-04 02:11:10 PM  

lennavan: my ancestors immigrated here legally.


Kinda like the folks who got guns before the liberal gun-grabbing regulations required documentation.
 
2012-05-04 02:12:09 PM  

StaleCoffee: Yes.

It's the magnitude of consequences here that is in question, not that there are any.


Hey she got off easy, she should have been deported and would have been before Obama recently changed his policy to pander to Latinos.
 
2012-05-04 02:12:27 PM  

TheBigJerk: Krymson Tyde: skullkrusher: Lost Thought 00: Krymson Tyde: Jackson Herring: Christ. I was having dinner in a Mexican restaurant last night, and some tiny-dicked shiatweasel walked in wearing this farking shirt right here:

I wonder if he enjoyed his spit and feces burrito?

no, no. The cooking staff was probably all white teenagers. Mexicans staff the upscale itlaian and seafood joints

shock of my young life was going to a Chinese restaurant for the first time in Worcester, MA while in college and seeing that everyone working there was a roundeye.

I'm a health inspector; my biggest Chinese restaurant's kitchen is staffed almost entirely by Mexicans, including the sushi chef.

Let me guess, their menu includes sushi with avocado.

/Latin America's been doing interesting things with Sushi
//Not really a sushi fan, but I know some


eel avocado rolls are dee-lish-us
 
2012-05-04 02:12:39 PM  
According to her lawyer, Sanchez came to the U.S. illegally at age 4 with her parents and has no criminal record. Garcia was also born in Mexico but is a U.S. citizen. The couple were married four years ago.

Garcia and the lawyer both said the couple was in the process of applying for legal status for Sanchez. Garcia said he enlisted in the military in part because he thought it might help his wife's case.


Uh, she's here legally. Move along.


Sanchez was stopped for driving onto private property to avoid a traffic control device, according to sheriff's records. Her husband says he was told by family members that she made an illegal turn trying to get around a construction zone near the store.

Her car was just making the turns American cars don't want to. Right libtards?
 
2012-05-04 02:13:57 PM  

PsiChick: Fine. I will draw you a damn chart.



Seriously, take a second for some self reflection. In an argument, you refuse to agree with me that driving a car on public roads without a license is a crime. We both know you know it is. Aren't you better than this?

PsiChick: First, the woman was brought to the US as a child. She was not able to enter legally because she was, hey, a small child, which is a small humanoid too stupid to typically be able to put their clothes on right-side-out.



Let's back the fark up - I'm not advocating deporting the woman. I think the situation happened exactly as it should have.

Here are the facts: An illegal immigrant currently in the process of becoming a legal citizen was caught driving without a license. She spent two days in custody while her legal status was being verified. I say this is okay, you say that is too long. That's what we are arguing.

PsiChick: This woman was doing everything in her power to balance legal actions with safety for her family.



The hell she was. You made that up entirely. You even know that.

PsiChick: Was picking up paper plates part of that? No



See? You know damn well she was not doing "everything in her power to balance legal actions with the safety for her family." Paper plates had nothing to do with any of that crap. Now let me add two more facts you completely ignored:

The couple were married four years ago.
Garcia and the lawyer both said the couple was in the process of applying for legal status for Sanchez.


Let me add another fact - she either did not have a green card or was not carrying it on her at the time, which she would be required to do. She could have gotten a farking green card the day she got married.

Now lets return to your "doing everything in her power" bullshiat. Do you still believe that?



PsiChick: So in the meantime, in an area with no public transportation, she cannot legally obtain a driver's license.

Driving, if you don't know, is very very important if you do not live in a city.


So farking what? You're making the argument - if you live in an area with poor public transportation, you do not need a drivers license to drive because driving is very very important. Do you actually believe that? Why should anyone in her area get a drivers license? Do you even remember why we require a drivers license? You know, the whole bit about making sure people know the laws and can drive safely on our roads and whatnot? What a load of shiat. Why don't we just allow 12 year olds to drive. Do we not care about their safety?
 
2012-05-04 02:15:03 PM  

Guidette Frankentits: According to her lawyer, Sanchez came to the U.S. illegally at age 4 with her parents and has no criminal record. Garcia was also born in Mexico but is a U.S. citizen. The couple were married four years ago.

Garcia and the lawyer both said the couple was in the process of applying for legal status for Sanchez. Garcia said he enlisted in the military in part because he thought it might help his wife's case.

Uh, she's here legally. Move along.


Sanchez was stopped for driving onto private property to avoid a traffic control device, according to sheriff's records. Her husband says he was told by family members that she made an illegal turn trying to get around a construction zone near the store.

Her car was just making the turns American cars don't want to. Right libtards?


sounds like she got profiled.
 
2012-05-04 02:17:44 PM  

wedun: sounds like she got profiled.


Cops never ask white people for their driver's license when they pull them over? I don't think that's the case.
 
2012-05-04 02:19:17 PM  
They've had AMPLE time to get this sorted out to get her legal residency status. Four years is plenty of time to fill out paperwork. They could have gone to immigration immediately after getting married to get the ball rolling, but no, she figured she can stay in just because she's farking a guy in uniform. Know what? Apparently doing things the right way didn't sit well with her. She's shiat in her nest and that's all their damn fault. It's not the law's fault with this one, no matter how you look at it. It was purely her inaction.
 
2012-05-04 02:20:59 PM  

lennavan: PsiChick: Fine. I will draw you a damn chart.

Seriously, take a second for some self reflection. In an argument, you refuse to agree with me that driving a car on public roads without a license is a crime. We both know you know it is. Aren't you better than this?

PsiChick: First, the woman was brought to the US as a child. She was not able to enter legally because she was, hey, a small child, which is a small humanoid too stupid to typically be able to put their clothes on right-side-out.

Let's back the fark up - I'm not advocating deporting the woman. I think the situation happened exactly as it should have.

Here are the facts: An illegal immigrant currently in the process of becoming a legal citizen was caught driving without a license. She spent two days in custody while her legal status was being verified. I say this is okay, you say that is too long. That's what we are arguing.

PsiChick: This woman was doing everything in her power to balance legal actions with safety for her family.

The hell she was. You made that up entirely. You even know that.

PsiChick: Was picking up paper plates part of that? No

See? You know damn well she was not doing "everything in her power to balance legal actions with the safety for her family." Paper plates had nothing to do with any of that crap. Now let me add two more facts you completely ignored:

The couple were married four years ago.
Garcia and the lawyer both said the couple was in the process of applying for legal status for Sanchez.

Let me add another fact - she either did not have a green card or was not carrying it on her at the time, which she would be required to do. She could have gotten a farking green card the day she got married.

Now lets return to your "doing everything in her power" bullshiat. Do you still believe that?



PsiChick: So in the meantime, in an area with no public transportation, she cannot legally obtain a driver's license.

Driving, if you don't know, is very very importan ...


My argument is not that driving without a license is a crime. My argument is that she is currently in a situation where throwing her in jail was not the right response.

I am supported by the police department's own policies. What exactly are you supported by other than 'IT'S A CRIME NO TOLERANCE'?
 
2012-05-04 02:22:58 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: wedun: sounds like she got profiled.

Cops never ask white people for their driver's license when they pull them over? I don't think that's the case.


white people get pulled over for speeding, that's about it.

//white person.
 
2012-05-04 02:23:28 PM  

lennavan: Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No


And how can that person get a license if the laws are so backwards that the person cannot get a license? It's a catch-22.
 
2012-05-04 02:25:06 PM  

rebelyell2006: lennavan: Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

And how can that person get a license if the laws are so backwards that the person cannot get a license? It's a catch-22.


She can get a license as soon as she's granted resident status, which she does not need a driver's license to do.
 
2012-05-04 02:26:40 PM  

StaleCoffee: Only, she's here legally, working towards resident status.


Which is why she was not deported and she was released. Duh.

StaleCoffee: Other than demonstrating your ignorance I don't see anything wrong with my argument.


I don't know how the fark you could answer "requires three years, married four years ago, and applied two months" and not figure it out. I'm at a loss dude.

StaleCoffee: At which point they need to investigate and verify. It does not take two days and several prison transfers to do that.


Apparently it does. Who are you to question that? Are you suggesting some sort of tinfoil hat nefarious scheme here? I think what you meant to write is it SHOULD not take two days.

StaleCoffee: It was meant to contrast "papers please" expectations.


Let's be clear, I'm completely against SB1070. But I got no beef with asking the driver for papers when you get pulled over. You know, your drivers license papers. I'm not going to get upset the cop asked her for a license.

StaleCoffee: I'm not shocked to discover you don't know the difference between "illegal immigrant" and "here legally."


I'm not shocked to discover you don't understand the difference between past and present tense:

StaleCoffee: a woman who illegally immigrated here


StaleCoffee: Again, you appear to not understand the difference between "illegal immigrant" and "here legally."


Again, you appear to not understand the difference between past and present tense:

StaleCoffee: she entered the country illegally

 
2012-05-04 02:27:15 PM  

qorkfiend: rebelyell2006: lennavan: Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

And how can that person get a license if the laws are so backwards that the person cannot get a license? It's a catch-22.

She can get a license as soon as she's granted resident status, which she does not need a driver's license to do.


Yeah she had like two years or something to get it, so she should have had it already.

You know, because that process is usually finished within two years, and not five or eight or forever.
 
2012-05-04 02:29:03 PM  

wedun: white people get pulled over for speeding, that's about it.

//white person.


That explains all those white people I see blowing stop signs and stop lights.
 
2012-05-04 02:29:03 PM  

PsiChick: My argument is not that driving without a license is a crime.


Why the F didn't you just agree to that in the first place then, rather than give me some BS about laws not being black and white?

PsiChick: My argument is that she is currently in a situation where throwing her in jail was not the right response.


To driving without a license? Are you shiatting me? You just agreed it is a crime, right? So now we're at you saying "Yes she was busted for a crime, how dare they jail her for it?" What the hell?

PsiChick: What exactly are you supported by other than 'IT'S A CRIME NO TOLERANCE'?


How about once they verified her legal status they let her go. What did I win?
 
2012-05-04 02:30:31 PM  

wedun: qorkfiend: rebelyell2006: lennavan: Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

And how can that person get a license if the laws are so backwards that the person cannot get a license? It's a catch-22.

She can get a license as soon as she's granted resident status, which she does not need a driver's license to do.

Yeah she had like two years or something to get it, so she should have had it already.

You know, because that process is usually finished within two years, and not five or eight or forever.


Yeah because the only way to stay in the country legally is to become a full citizen.

That's why everyone who lives here is a US citizen.
 
2012-05-04 02:31:11 PM  

wedun: Guidette Frankentits: According to her lawyer, Sanchez came to the U.S. illegally at age 4 with her parents and has no criminal record. Garcia was also born in Mexico but is a U.S. citizen. The couple were married four years ago.

Garcia and the lawyer both said the couple was in the process of applying for legal status for Sanchez. Garcia said he enlisted in the military in part because he thought it might help his wife's case.

Uh, she's here legally. Move along.


Sanchez was stopped for driving onto private property to avoid a traffic control device, according to sheriff's records. Her husband says he was told by family members that she made an illegal turn trying to get around a construction zone near the store.

Her car was just making the turns American cars don't want to. Right libtards?

sounds like she got profiled.


For being an unsafe driver?

She doesn't have a license, you know? Maybe if she had taken the course and passed the test she would have know the turn was illegal.
 
2012-05-04 02:31:42 PM  

rebelyell2006: lennavan: Driving without a license. Is it a crime?
Yes/No

And how can that person get a license if the laws are so backwards that the person cannot get a license? It's a catch-22.


Just out of curiosity, which specific law about getting a license do you consider backwards?
 
2012-05-04 02:34:46 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: For being an unsafe driver?

She doesn't have a license, you know? Maybe if she had taken the course and passed the test she would have know the turn was illegal.


On a more sane forum, the conversation would have gone like this:

Lenny: Man, this chick is just a whiner. She got busted for driving without a license and got caught up in the system for two days because her immigration status is iffy and she didn't particularly do much to change that.
Fark: Heh yeah.
Lenny: But I got sympathy, I've thought about cutting through parking lots to skip red lights all the time. Guess I'll keep my eyes out for a cop next time I think about it.
 
2012-05-04 02:37:19 PM  

lennavan: PsiChick: My argument is not that driving without a license is a crime.

Why the F didn't you just agree to that in the first place then, rather than give me some BS about laws not being black and white?

PsiChick: My argument is that she is currently in a situation where throwing her in jail was not the right response.

To driving without a license? Are you shiatting me? You just agreed it is a crime, right? So now we're at you saying "Yes she was busted for a crime, how dare they jail her for it?" What the hell?

PsiChick: What exactly are you supported by other than 'IT'S A CRIME NO TOLERANCE'?

How about once they verified her legal status they let her go. What did I win?

That's exactly what I'm farking saying

. They did verify her legal status. She had a card saying as much and explaining the lack of license. They ignored the card and hauled her in anyway..

She was not 'busted for driving without a license'. That would have been a ticket or court summons. She was hauled in for being an illegal immigrant, which she was not. Her license status was secondary, and you were arguing that her license status warranted two days in jail, when in fact her license status was a minor fluke which should have been ignored.
 
2012-05-04 02:37:42 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: StaleCoffee: Yes.

It's the magnitude of consequences here that is in question, not that there are any.

Hey she got off easy, she should have been deported and would have been before Obama recently changed his policy to pander to Latinos.


But latino chicks are so hot.
 
2012-05-04 02:46:09 PM  

PsiChick: She had a card saying as much and explaining the lack of license.


You don't actually know that. It's he said/she said.

PsiChick: She was hauled in for being an illegal immigrant, which she was not.


She was hauled in for being a suspected illegal immigrant.

After Sanchez told the officer she didn't have a driver's license or a Social Security number, she was taken into custody and her car was towed.

Gee, no drivers license, no social security number. Yeah, just give her a ticket for driving without a license and let her drive on home still without a license? The cop thought she was an illegal immigrant, that is no longer his area so he turned her over to the correct people. Those people found she was here legally and let her go. The chain of custody from the police to the border patrol to immigration took two days. What exactly is your beef here? What would you change, what should have been done differently?
 
2012-05-04 02:47:53 PM  

PsiChick: you were arguing that her license status warranted two days in jail


No I wasn't. The police turned her over to border patrol which turned her over to immigration, which then was tasked with figuring out if she is here illegally or not. My argument is two days seems to me a reasonable amount of time. I wish it were faster but then again, I'm sure everyone wishes courts and the police worked faster. I'm sure as hell not calling the cops a bunch of racists.
 
2012-05-04 02:52:00 PM  

lennavan: Which is why she was not deported and she was released. Duh.


You don't know why she was released because nobody knows why she was released. She never saw a judge, never went through due process and they're still trying to figure out WTF was going on.

lennavan: I don't know how the fark you could answer "requires three years, married four years ago, and applied two months" and not figure it out. I'm at a loss dude.


Married at 18.

3 year minimum.

So lets see. Because there was a 3 year minimum, and they applied in March, you think that minimum = exact time frame in which things happen. Further, they haven't heard anything back from immigration since they submitted the application. That two month lapse must be their fault, and there are obviously couldn't be any lapses of any other kind in the other maximum of 12 months there due to immigration. Derp.

lennavan: Apparently it does. Who are you to question that? Are you suggesting some sort of tinfoil hat nefarious scheme here? I think what you meant to write is it SHOULD not take two days.


Oh, okay. It should not take two days, several prison transfers and complete blackout of communications to be released for going around a red light through a private lot and not having a DL.

lennavan: Apparently it does. Who are you to question that? Are you suggesting some sort of tinfoil hat nefarious scheme here? I think what you meant to write is it SHOULD not take two days.


Really? If that's your attitude then sit down, shut up and accept the fact I am right, because: Who are you to question that? Because I'm right and that's all that needs to be said, and anything you say is irrelevant because I am better than you. Science has proven this, by the way. I can provide the equations if requested.

lennavan: Let's be clear, I'm completely against SB1070. But I got no beef with asking the driver for papers when you get pulled over. You know, your drivers license papers. I'm not going to get upset the cop asked her for a license.


Failing to present appropriate documents does not equate to deportation.

Her legal status here did not merit deportation.

The deportation process was started and she was held without bail. There is a disconnect there.

lennavan: I'm not shocked to discover you don't understand the difference between past and present tense:


Now you're just not arguing anything at all. What is it you're trying to say, that you realize now she's here legally but you can't find it in yourself to say so? Or are you going to play some nonsense about never having said she wasn't here legally? Just clarify it, don't spin.
 
2012-05-04 02:53:58 PM  

lennavan: re.


She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.
 
2012-05-04 03:00:21 PM  

StaleCoffee: You don't know why she was released because nobody knows why she was released. She never saw a judge, never went through due process and they're still trying to figure out WTF was going on.


Why would she see a judge? She was being held for being an illegal while they verified her status. Once verified, she was no longer held. Consider it a charges dropped sorta deal.

StaleCoffee: Because there was a 3 year minimum, and they applied in March, you think that minimum = exact time frame in which things happen.


I'm making the assumption she cared about becoming a US citizen. Since you know, that was what the entire article was about, you know, how her husband joined the military to help her become a US citizen and whatnot. Alternatively they are full of shiat.

StaleCoffee: Failing to present appropriate documents does not equate to deportation. Her legal status here did not merit deportation. The deportation process was started and she was held without bail. There is a disconnect there.


She was not deported. The process worked. There is no disconnect.

StaleCoffee: Oh, okay. It should not take two days, several prison transfers and complete blackout of communications to be released for not having any way to verify her legal status going around a red light through a private lot and not having a DL.


I know this is going to make you really really mad but here it is anyways - if you are not a US citizen you are still allowed to be in the country but you have to have your papers on you at all times. It's actually a current federal law:

Permanent residents of the United States eighteen years of age or older must carry their valid physical green card itself at all times. Failing to do so would be a violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act, carrying the possibility of a fine up to $100 and/or imprisonment for up to 30 days for each offense.[2] Only the federal government can impose these penalties.[3]

She does not have a social security card - therefore she is not a US citizen. No bigs, she might still be here legally, let's see the green card? Wait, where is her green card? You are required to have one on you at all times? She did not have a green card? Awkward. She was then suspected of being an illegal immigrant you say?

This is my shocked face :-O
 
2012-05-04 03:04:59 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: lennavan: re.

She was 4-years old when her parents brought her to the U.S. She had no say in the matter. You have to be 18 years old to even begin the application process to become a U.S. citizen and if you're married to a U.S. citizen, you must be married 3 years before applying. As the article states, she's in the process of becoming a citizen. However, this isn't something that happens quickly.

Obviously she shouldn't have been driving without a license, but until she becomes a citizen she can't get a driver's license in Arizona.



I don't disagree with any of this, so I'm not sure what your point is?
 
2012-05-04 03:21:32 PM  

lennavan: PsiChick: She had a card saying as much and explaining the lack of license.

You don't actually know that. It's he said/she said.

PsiChick: She was hauled in for being an illegal immigrant, which she was not.

She was hauled in for being a suspected illegal immigrant.

After Sanchez told the officer she didn't have a driver's license or a Social Security number, she was taken into custody and her car was towed.

Gee, no drivers license, no social security number. Yeah, just give her a ticket for driving without a license and let her drive on home still without a license? The cop thought she was an illegal immigrant, that is no longer his area so he turned her over to the correct people. Those people found she was here legally and let her go. The chain of custody from the police to the border patrol to immigration took two days. What exactly is your beef here? What would you change, what should have been done differently?


Once she produced the card, that should have been the end of it. And if you doubt she produced the card, why not doubt that he wasn't just, y'know, living in Arizona and therefore under the impression that either a) racism would impress his boss or b) all brown people are Teh Scary Messicans?
 
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