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(Ars Technica)   Virtual shooting games may improve real-world accuracy. That Duck Hunt dog is still gonna laugh at you   (arstechnica.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting, Duck Hunt, dogs, Super Mario Galaxy, center of mass, operant conditions, Anders Behring Breivik, Breivik, Call of Duty  
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1088 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 May 2012 at 4:40 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-03 01:22:14 PM
What a bullshiat study.

Might as well measure gravity at sea level with a charcoal marker, some ticker tape, and a cart on a 45 degree incline for all the scientific value you've just done, ya idjit.
 
2012-05-03 01:29:28 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-05-03 01:53:36 PM
I call BS. I now have a habit of tapping my foot every time I want to reload.
 
2012-05-03 02:25:05 PM
Major bullshiat, for several reasons that aren't mentioned:

1. Real guns are heavier than a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

2. Real guns make a very loud *BANG*! noise when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

3. Real guns recoil when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

I can see some possible benefit, and I might work something like that into my regimen when training for the primitive biathlons*, but realistically it's not going to help much, and if you aren't careful it might actually hinder your shooting.


*Probably using the target shooting "area" of a hunting game right after some cardio.
 
2012-05-03 02:46:01 PM
After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

supplementgenius.com
 
2012-05-03 02:55:40 PM

Fark It: After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

[supplementgenius.com image 260x194]


That's the other thing: I have no experience with airsoft guns, but am I correct in assuming they are about as accurate as a smoothbore BB gun (ie., not accurate at all)?
 
2012-05-03 03:04:08 PM

dittybopper: Fark It: After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

[supplementgenius.com image 260x194]

That's the other thing: I have no experience with airsoft guns, but am I correct in assuming they are about as accurate as a smoothbore BB gun (ie., not accurate at all)?


Less probably. BB guns shoot mostly metal BBs (or so I thought), and airsoft is mostly plastic BBs. This means they weigh less, thus making them less accurate.
 
2012-05-03 03:22:45 PM

Fark It: dittybopper: Fark It: After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

[supplementgenius.com image 260x194]

That's the other thing: I have no experience with airsoft guns, but am I correct in assuming they are about as accurate as a smoothbore BB gun (ie., not accurate at all)?

Less probably. BB guns shoot mostly metal BBs (or so I thought), and airsoft is mostly plastic BBs. This means they weigh less, thus making them less accurate.


My friends and I would have air soft gun wars when I was young. You would aim at your friend, then turn about 30 degrees to the left or right to adjust for the terrible curve that always happened. There's a reason the Brits used to line up in long rows during war, the smooth balls they were shooting were inaccurate as shiat at medium/long range.

Paintball guns offer better accuracy and those also suck for the most part. There's only so much you can do with perfectly spherical ammunition.
 
2012-05-03 04:10:15 PM
I've noticed that since the Call of Duty (and whatever else) games have started the "look down sights" theme I haven't had to explain to a single kid how the sights on an AR-15 work.

Previously every single person that hadn't seen aperture sights were confused.

*shrug*
 
2012-05-03 04:11:19 PM

scottydoesntknow: There's only so much you can do with perfectly spherical ammunition.


Unless, of course, the gun in question is a rifle. Or a rifled pistol.

I shoot .535" lead balls in greased linen patches over 110 grains of 2F powder. When I do my part, the gun shoots fine.
 
2012-05-03 04:50:18 PM
Don't care about realism, but I do miss Virtua Cop.

Those games were really fun.
 
2012-05-03 04:52:32 PM

Virtual Pariah: Don't care about realism, but I do miss Virtua Cop.

Those games were really fun.


www.consoleclassix.com

fark Virtua Cop.
 
2012-05-03 04:58:54 PM
I have found that camping at the top of the stairs in that little house in "Mission" has made me a better shot, so this article is TRUE!
 
2012-05-03 04:59:41 PM
The games may teach you such Ric Romeroesque, non-obvious things as 'fire from cover' and other such pearls of wisdom. I am pretty well positive using a controller, or even the motion controller rigs are not going to do much good teaching you how to shoot.
 
2012-05-03 05:02:39 PM

Quasar: I call BS. I now have a habit of tapping my foot every time I want to reload.


I have a habit of trying to jump in the air with a sniper rifle.
 
2012-05-03 05:02:58 PM
dl.dropbox.com


/Lies, LIES!, LIES!!, THIS ARTICLE IS NOTHING BUT LIES!!
/SUBBY IS A LIAR AND A CHARLATAN!!
 
2012-05-03 05:07:18 PM
Yeah, and im sure driving games make people good drivers too...
 
2012-05-03 05:08:31 PM
the whole reason this article exists is because of the Norwegian mass-murderer stating he used to practice his marksmanship with Call of Duty...

if he never said that, nothing to see here, move along folks...
 
2012-05-03 05:12:50 PM
i4.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-03 05:15:26 PM
Americas Army was developed to indocrinate future conscripts for the war against ************CARRIER LOST**********
 
2012-05-03 05:19:17 PM
Maaaan I thought this thread had excellent potential for some light gun arcade game nostalgia.

/leaving disappointed.
 
2012-05-03 05:21:14 PM

dittybopper: Major bullshiat, for several reasons that aren't mentioned:

1. Real guns are heavier than a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

2. Real guns make a very loud *BANG*! noise when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

3. Real guns recoil when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

I can see some possible benefit, and I might work something like that into my regimen when training for the primitive biathlons*, but realistically it's not going to help much, and if you aren't careful it might actually hinder your shooting.


*Probably using the target shooting "area" of a hunting game right after some cardio.


Fark It: After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

[supplementgenius.com image 260x194]




These.

The one and only bit of shooting skill you can glean from video games is sight picture. Everything else - body position, grip, trigger discipline, recoil management, etc. - cannot be taught without the real thing. Try popping off seven shots from my 1911 without any prior proper training, and you aren't hitting a man-sized target at any range without a huge amount of luck.
 
2012-05-03 05:22:03 PM
Can't wait to hear Marine snipers complaining about lag compensation.
 
2012-05-03 05:23:49 PM

Strategeryz0r: Virtual Pariah: Don't care about realism, but I do miss Virtua Cop.

Those games were really fun.

[www.consoleclassix.com image 256x224]

fark Virtua Cop.




www.arcade-museum.com

Fark Lethal Enforcers
 
2012-05-03 05:24:45 PM

Kuroshin: dittybopper: Major bullshiat, for several reasons that aren't mentioned:

1. Real guns are heavier than a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

2. Real guns make a very loud *BANG*! noise when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

3. Real guns recoil when fired, unlike a Wii controller with a plastic gun frame around it.

I can see some possible benefit, and I might work something like that into my regimen when training for the primitive biathlons*, but realistically it's not going to help much, and if you aren't careful it might actually hinder your shooting.


*Probably using the target shooting "area" of a hunting game right after some cardio.

Fark It: After playing the games, participants were given a realistic airsoft gun

[supplementgenius.com image 260x194]



These.

The one and only bit of shooting skill you can glean from video games is sight picture. Everything else - body position, grip, trigger discipline, recoil management, etc. - cannot be taught without the real thing. Try popping off seven shots from my 1911 without any prior proper training, and you aren't hitting a man-sized target at any range without a huge amount of luck.


Light gun games can actually do wonders for muscle memory. But call of duty? Not so much. Like you said might help with sight picture, but you wont learn a damn thing about shooting from that. A real life AR-15 weighs a whole hell of a lot more than a controller. Conversely a real handgun weighs a lot more than a light gun, but the light gun at least gives you the feel and the motion(without the recoil).

I just can't get over how they used airsoft guns for their real world test. You call that a study? Not even close! Airsoft guns are nowhere near as heavy as their real life counterparts, and none of them(save for the green gas guns) have anything that resembles real weapon recoil.

Bad study is bad. Lets talk about shooty video games instead :P
 
2012-05-03 05:25:25 PM

Giltric: Strategeryz0r: Virtual Pariah: Don't care about realism, but I do miss Virtua Cop.

Those games were really fun.

[www.consoleclassix.com image 256x224]

fark Virtua Cop.



[www.arcade-museum.com image 226x421]

Fark Lethal Enforcers


k I'll give you that one, it is pretty fun. Even if you look like a dumbass for the entire arcade to poke fun at.
 
2012-05-03 05:36:13 PM
As someone with both, no, no they don't. A real gun has a different feeling in terms of weight, recoil, trigger pull, length of pull, sighting, bullet drop/windage, etc.

Took me a long time to learn how to properly shoot a real gun, and even today I still have some accuracy issues. In a videogame, I could shoot the wings of a fly.
 
2012-05-03 05:45:26 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Yeah, and im sure driving games make people good drivers too...


Actually... they do.

I was sponsored by SIMBIN for quite some time. I tweaked the software extensively so that the physics and engine dynamics were exactly like the F1 rig that I raced. We then practiced on tracks we'd not been to yet on the race schedule so we could figure out brake markers, turn in points, and get the gearing dialed in. I went as far as to build a full size F1 'joystick' for the game with all the controls of a real F1 rig

Gamespot actually did a three part story on us, and followed us out to Road America, a track we practiced a great deal in the 'simulator'. We took a 4th place having never seen the track before, and we took 2nd overall in the National Series that year... partly due to all the setup and testing time in the 'simulator'.

The CEO of SIMBIN was so impressed with our success using their software that as a nod to us when they released GTR Evolution they put both of us in the game as AI drivers.

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-05-03 05:48:52 PM

moike: Dead for Tax Reasons: Yeah, and im sure driving games make people good drivers too...

Actually... they do.

I was sponsored by SIMBIN for quite some time. I tweaked the software extensively so that the physics and engine dynamics were exactly like the F1 rig that I raced. We then practiced on tracks we'd not been to yet on the race schedule so we could figure out brake markers, turn in points, and get the gearing dialed in. I went as far as to build a full size F1 'joystick' for the game with all the controls of a real F1 rig

Gamespot actually did a three part story on us, and followed us out to Road America, a track we practiced a great deal in the 'simulator'. We took a 4th place having never seen the track before, and we took 2nd overall in the National Series that year... partly due to all the setup and testing time in the 'simulator'.

The CEO of SIMBIN was so impressed with our success using their software that as a nod to us when they released GTR Evolution they put both of us in the game as AI drivers.

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 640x400]


I was going to say, I've heard that a lot of pro race drivers actually use Gran Turismo to practice tracks prior to actually getting to them. They'll even have their pit crews spec out a car in the game that's identical to what they're actually racing. Supposedly it's an extremely accurate representation.

And there's another PC specific racing game that came out sometime in the last 5 years. It's online only if I remember, and it's not uncommon for professional drivers to hop on there because of how realistic it supposedly is.
 
2012-05-03 06:03:16 PM
I think it's a bit different for driving.
What they want to practice is memorizing the track and where to hit the gas or brake. They aren't practicing the feel for balance in the car itself.
A game will help you find a good line, but if you don't have a touch for the controls then that's not gonna do you much good.

Shooting is more kinematics like archery or darts. You are practicing how to deal with the weight of the weapon, the recoil, sighting, and your taming muscle movements.
You could study a map for a shooting course with a game. Learn the layout and all the best vantage points. But if you don't already have a feel for the gun...
 
2012-05-03 06:19:07 PM
You know, in my younger days I had names for when I was intoxicated and playing FPS games. Seems that if someone wants to get better, get drunk. Stats and all that.

/Thanks again for the email ditty, still on the fence so to speak. A friend has recommend going the DOD route and contracting out
 
2012-05-03 06:44:45 PM
I keep playing those games but it doesn't seem to help my shooting any.

t1.gstatic.com

Maybe I should try a different game.
 
2012-05-03 07:06:23 PM

moike: Dead for Tax Reasons: Yeah, and im sure driving games make people good drivers too...

Actually... they do.

I was sponsored by SIMBIN for quite some time. I tweaked the software extensively so that the physics and engine dynamics were exactly like the F1 rig that I raced. We then practiced on tracks we'd not been to yet on the race schedule so we could figure out brake markers, turn in points, and get the gearing dialed in. I went as far as to build a full size F1 'joystick' for the game with all the controls of a real F1 rig

Gamespot actually did a three part story on us, and followed us out to Road America, a track we practiced a great deal in the 'simulator'. We took a 4th place having never seen the track before, and we took 2nd overall in the National Series that year... partly due to all the setup and testing time in the 'simulator'.

The CEO of SIMBIN was so impressed with our success using their software that as a nod to us when they released GTR Evolution they put both of us in the game as AI drivers.


These people have never fired a real gun. Someone who has never driven a car to play a video game then drive is not going to know how a real car will feel as compared to a controller or more advanced sim

Yeah, I watch video before racing at a track so I don't go in blind, which helps as is what you are talking about but you need the knowledge of the physics behind actually driving/shooting

Playing a flight sim won't help me land a 747 I've never flown though
 
2012-05-03 07:24:52 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Playing a flight sim won't help me land a 747 I've never flown though


I think the FAA counts certain sims flight time as logged flight hours for IFR.

Not sure but the old ms flight sim might have been one of them......

DCS A-10 should count as logged hours too if it doesn't hehe....haven't gotten off the runway in months without grenading my engines but If I ever get some sort of DFC from DCS A-10 they better send me the real frakking thing in the mail.
 
2012-05-03 07:40:29 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons:
Playing a flight sim won't help me land a 747 I've never flown though


Oddly enough my Dad just got done building this...

i.imgur.com

It's essentially a Cessna 172 cockpit. He's using it along with three 24" widescreens to act as the 'horizon' to train for his CFI.

But yeah, I get what you're saying... I know what a car feels like at speed, what the kick of a real gun feels like (Hk USP/Taurus Magnum) and I've been behind the yoke of a real aircraft. I look at the 'simulators' as training tools to improve practical experience, they're not substitutes for the real thing.

OBGuns: When I was working on my trigger pull I'd use the Taurus revolver filled with a random load of .357, .38, and snap caps. I'd spin the cylinder and snap it in so I wouldn't know what to expect when I squeezed the trigger. BANG, BANG, click, Pop, BANG, click...

Everybody else at the range just thought I was a really shiatty hobbyist reloader.
 
2012-05-03 08:00:37 PM
ITT: You can see who the real shooters are.

Strategeryz0r: Kuroshin: The one and only bit of shooting skill you can glean from video games is sight picture. Everything else - body position, grip, trigger discipline, recoil management, etc. - cannot be taught without the real thing. Try popping off seven shots from my 1911 without any prior proper training, and you aren't hitting a man-sized target at any range without a huge amount of luck.

Light gun games can actually do wonders for muscle memory. But call of duty? Not so much. Like you said might help with sight picture, but you wont learn a damn thing about shooting from that. A real life AR-15 weighs a whole hell of a lot more than a controller. Conversely a real handgun weighs a lot more than a light gun, but the light gun at least gives you the feel and the motion(without the recoil).

I just can't get over how they used airsoft guns for their real world test. You call that a study? Not even close! Airsoft guns are nowhere near as heavy as their real life counterparts, and none of them(save for the green gas guns) have anything that resembles real weapon recoil.

Bad study is bad. Lets talk about shooty video games instead :P



But those AirSoft guns were realistic!!!


Know what's fun? Embarrassing your wife and amazing the pants off her friends playing Gun Shoot #1 (not the real name) at Ground Kontrol. Damn nagging wenches wouldn't shut up about how hard shooty games were, and the wife wouldn't leave me alone with my Burger Time. Fine. Gun Shoot #1 it is. 80% accuracy with a faulty gun (shoots to the left), no continues, all terrorists dead for the first three segments. Happy now? Let me get back to these damn burgers and peppering this egg.
 
2012-05-03 08:02:31 PM

Giltric: DCS A-10 should count as logged hours too if it doesn't hehe....haven't gotten off the runway in months without grenading my engines but If I ever get some sort of DFC from DCS A-10 they better send me the real frakking thing in the mail.


You might want to check the malfunctions section of your airplane. Sounds like you have failures on. Startup and takeoff is EASY in DCS compared to the rest of the game. No explosions required.
 
2012-05-03 08:12:06 PM
DNRTFA, but the use of airsoft negates this for me...

However, I can see the use of videogames being similar to dry-fire practice, which can be very helpful...though it's of most use if you're dry-firing the weapon you intend to be live-firing.
 
2012-05-03 09:44:35 PM

Giltric: Americas Army was developed to indocrinate future conscripts for the war against ************CARRIER LOST**********


America's Army has taught me one thing and it's this: I will die roughly two minutes after being deployed and it'll probably be a result of a grenade I threw bouncing back at me
 
2012-05-04 12:32:07 AM

The Incredible Sexual Egg: Giltric: Americas Army was developed to indocrinate future conscripts for the war against ************CARRIER LOST**********

America's Army has taught me one thing and it's this: I will die roughly two minutes after being deployed and it'll probably be a result of a grenade I threw bouncing back at me


this
 
2012-05-04 04:01:13 AM

Kuroshin: These.

The one and only bit of shooting skill you can glean from video games is sight picture. Everything else - body position, grip, trigger discipline, recoil management, etc. - cannot be taught without the real thing. Try popping off seven shots from my 1911 without any prior proper training, and you aren't hitting a man-sized target at any range without a huge amount of luck.


Don't get me wrong, i'm not a gun know it all because I've played CoD....but...

1. Sniping in BF2 had no windage, but it did have bullet drop. As did the crossbow in BlackOps.
2. Obviously as others mentioned, tactics, and basics, like prone is better than standing, which is better than running.

It's conceivable that a game could be written with realism in mind, to include windage, drop over distance, and many other such things like a realistic recoil(which could aid in recoil management where you know how far and in what direction a gun will kick).

Wouldn't be popular pvp wise, sure, but it could go a long ways into helping people not be complete morons, and not waste valuable range time what most of us consider to be the glaringly obvious. Reloading could be displayed in detail, as well as assembly.
 
2012-05-04 09:49:29 AM

moike: Dead for Tax Reasons: Yeah, and im sure driving games make people good drivers too...

Actually... they do.


I know that playing Silent Hunter III (with GWX3 Gold, of course) has made me a better U-boat commander.
 
2012-05-04 11:02:37 AM

Strategeryz0r: Maaaan I thought this thread had excellent potential for some light gun arcade game nostalgia.

/leaving disappointed.


t3.gstatic.com
 
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