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(CBC)   Student suspended for wearing shirt that promotes a) alcohol, b) drugs, or c) Jesus   (cbc.ca) divider line 85
    More: Asinine, William Swinimer, Nova Scotia, students  
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8033 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2012 at 2:51 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-05-03 11:22:23 AM
6 votes:
He sounds like a particularly obnoxious brand of Bible thumper. That said, he should totally be allowed to be an obnoxious brand of Bible thumper.
2012-05-03 01:35:18 PM
4 votes:

Tatsuma: Nowhere does it say in the passuk that Hashem created at this time all the animals,


So I guess when it says "god formed all the animals" - you know, right in the sentence itself - that's the Devil playing tricks on my mind.

Tatsuma: What, you think he just created say 300,000 different lions at once, then 250,000 sparrows, and so on?


No, I think none of this happened. It's, you know, not true.
2012-05-03 11:22:34 AM
4 votes:
From the far more detailed, but redlit article about this story:

Student Lucas Reeves wrote there is more to the story than what Swinimer is sharing.

"Please take your head out of the sand and realize that people are being affected by this and it needs to stop," he writes.

He claims Swinimer wore the shirt for about two weeks straight and repeatedly "verbally attacked other students about their religions."

Another student, Lianne Lenihan, says wearing a T-shirt with a religious slogan is not an issue, but this situation is much different.

"NO ONE has had a problem with William wearing any of his other t-shirts that support Christianity," she says in a Facebook post. "They have all been welcomed, and I've heard compliments on them."

"It is just this one shirt that people have found offensive," Lenihan says, "because of the other situations that have led up to this incidence."
2012-05-03 12:57:42 PM
3 votes:

kingoomieiii: We're on the same page here. For all the lip service he gets, Jesus's philosophy doesn't factor into Christianity much anymore.


It shouldn't be called 'xianity', it should be called 'Paulianity'
2012-05-03 12:54:37 PM
3 votes:

Tatsuma: DammitIForgotMyLogin: According to your own words earlier, it's not hateful because it's stating an opinion.

BECAUSE ITS NOT A HATEFUL OPINION, UNLIKE SAYING ALL BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD BE SLAVE


What the fark is wrong with you people?


We're sick of being told that not having an invisible friend makes us worthless?
2012-05-03 12:20:35 PM
3 votes:
Swinimer says he never intended to attack anyone else's beliefs.

Then maybe your slogan shouldn't be an attack on EVERYONE else's beliefs. You douche.
2012-05-03 04:50:10 PM
2 votes:

I alone am best: I think the answer is yes. If you believe in God and you are doing it to spread his word and your only bringing the attention to yourself because of that then God would not look down on you. This passage is just for people who are doing it for the sole purpose of convincing others of their piety.

Also, I am not defending the kid. I think he is an attention whore. I just think that people who don't understand what it means should tell Christians that they should go pray in their bedroom and only in their bedroom should be spouting off about it.


I think this is an interesting reading, mostly because it adds meaning that the chapter doesn't contain to excuse the behavior of current Christians. It's essentially an eisegesis that allows the current practices to continue even though they're clearly in violation of Matthew 6. After all, the passage clearly doesn't delineate between true believers and false believers who pray in public. If anything, it suggests that praying in public is actually a problem itself, even if you are being otherwise righteous and believing while doing so.

Then you say, "I just think that people who don't understand what it means should tell Christians that they should go pray in their bedroom and only in their bedroom should be spouting off about it." That assumes that the people who understand this passage differently =/= Christians, which is a laughable claim. After all, the assumption (or presumption) that Christians have a special understanding of the Bible granted by God basically precludes the existence of more than a few splinter major splinter groups . . . and we can look around to see the falsity of that assumption. There's just no way to reconcile special revelation with our actual, living world, or with the understanding that Christians are sinners too.

Inerrancy and infallibility are weird things, even when talking about just the limited claims that the Pope makes. That some Christians in the United States claim that they apply to the average Christian on the street in any matter involving salvation are . . . .bizarre. Not especially Christian, anyway.
2012-05-03 03:07:08 PM
2 votes:
I can't wait until I can watch this on Fox News where they omit the part about it happening in Canada in order to blame Obama.
2012-05-03 02:07:43 PM
2 votes:

TNel: He's saying that, in order to resolve the contradition, he's imagining context for that verse. He has decided that God, having already populated the Earth with animals, conjured one of each for Adam to name.

Wouldn't that take like forever to give a name to every single animal on earth, I mean there are people that believe that everything in the bible is real but that would take an unreal amount of time. Did he form them as a hologram or a painting? Sounds like a waste to form a bunch of sea creatures just to have them die from being out of the water.


Not to mention there were clearly no Hebrew words for a ton of animals. For example, the Hebrew for for Kangaroo is Kangaroo. They just took it from the English, who took it from the Aboriginals. What was Adam doing if not naming these things?
2012-05-03 01:29:45 PM
2 votes:

Tatsuma: No, it does not say that 'all the animals were created after man', its saying that after man was created, he formed in front of him one animal of each and every species so he'd give them name.


Haha, no it doesn't. It literally says "And god said it is not good for Adam to be alone", and so he decided to make for him buddies - aka animals as it says in the next sentence.

I look forward to you now citing Rashi to explain how "alone" means he wasn't actually alone, but actually there were tons of animals already around and he just couldn't see them!
2012-05-03 12:30:06 PM
2 votes:

superdolfan1: And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context


Taken directly from KJV:

6:5= And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6= But thou, when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to they Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Bible disagrees with you, sparky.
2012-05-03 11:32:31 AM
2 votes:
We had a guy in our high school who wore a shirt that read something along the lines of "Proud Christian -- I will pray when I want to where I want to. Stop me at YOUR peril."

He was a little upset when, despite his attention-whoring, nobody bothered stopping him from praying when he felt like it, except when he was clearly trying to disrupt classes and it was explicitly explained to him that ANY loud public displays would be stopped.
2012-05-04 12:05:47 AM
1 votes:

retrograde: Boatmech: You're the one making threats preacher man.

Threat? Okay. Be forewarned God Haterman we are not going quietly into the execution chambers if you ever get the upper hand.


Strange, all the god haters I know don't really give a crap about your fantasies as long as you don't try to force them on us.
And once again bible thumper - YOU are the one making threats about executions.
/but what the hell, You did kill your own messiah.
2012-05-03 07:40:58 PM
1 votes:

retrograde:
Moral relativism. Atheism. Two great evils which go hand in hand. Anything the state claims is good is good. Evil. Unspeakable evil.


You have no idea how full of shiat you are! Wow!
2012-05-03 07:23:35 PM
1 votes:

retrograde: Mock26: Do you have any evidence that proves that all those atrocities committed by atheists were committed because they were atheists? Because christians and other religious people have committed various atrocities in the name of their higher being(s). What is the difference?

Moral relativism flows from atheism. Moral relativism, the idea that man, the state, determines the "good" directly led to the murder of 100 MILLION people in China and Russia in the last century. It has led to the murder of uncounted millions of unborn human beings in the United States alone in this century. This "moral relativism" is the greatest evil to befall mankind in recent history. It entirely removes the restraints of conscience from those in power. Hence, this thread and all of the comments that the oppression of believers is a good thing and to be desired. Atheism is evil for this reason. Everywhere atheism has ever held sway atrocities have been the result. That is why they are so despised.


And every where theists have held sway (theocracies) has been a wonderful bed of roses. Need we point out the dark ages, the different inquisitions, Saudi Arabia, Iran, slavery in the christian south, Bosnia etc, etc, etc.

Let's just say it, people are dicks and will use any excuse they can to wipe each other out. It has however gotten better as countries have become more secular.
2012-05-03 06:58:42 PM
1 votes:

Mock26: Just as I suspected, you have no proof to back up your claim.


Okay, "proof". First, that is the wrong term. You want "evidence". Presumably, a personal note admitting culpability signed before a notary public by Chairmen Mao and Stalin. Well, I have that in my safe deposit box along with President Obama's birth certificate. So, I will offer you evidence from history instead:

Stalin deliberately targeted Eastern Orthodox clergy. He put them in camps for no other reason that they were priests and bishops and then brutally tortured them and murdered them almost to the last man. He destroyed priceless religious artworks, demolished churches and melted down the golden altars for bullion to pay for war. He then turned on the highly devout class of middle class property owners and farmers known as the "Kulaks" using the fact that they supported the clergy to brand them as enemies of the state to murder them and seize their farms and the subsequent mismanagement of these confiscated farms led to a famine which killed an estimated ten to fifteen million MORE Russians.

Mao, targeted all religions including Buddhists and Christians. Imprisoned, tortured and killed them wholesale. Burned temples and churches. To this day, in Tibet the persecution of the faithful as "enemies of the state" persists and the Chinese government has desecrated or destroyed hundreds of prayer wheels, statues and shrines in Tibet. They are still murdering priests and nuns. It is going on as we speak.

Moral relativism. Atheism. Two great evils which go hand in hand. Anything the state claims is good is good. Evil. Unspeakable evil.
2012-05-03 06:34:35 PM
1 votes:
The school has a legitimate and compelling interest in maintaining a comfortable learning environment for all students. The school has determined that while messages of personal religious devotion don't undermine that environment, messages which explicitly or implicitly criticize other religions do. The school could reasonably determine that this student's shirt implicitly criticized other religions, and is therefore inappropriate for school.

The school is wholly right. The student is wholly wrong. And if the student returns to school with the shirt, he should be expelled. And if other students come to school wearing the same shirt, they should be subject to the same hierarchy of disciplinary action to which the student here was. Starting with "politely being asked not to wear it again."

Next.
2012-05-03 05:22:56 PM
1 votes:
He wasn't suspended for wearing the shirt, he was suspended for being an asshole.
2012-05-03 05:17:42 PM
1 votes:
Dear World,

Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.

Sincerely, tired of hearing your religious guff
2012-05-03 05:13:56 PM
1 votes:

ArkAngel: freedom of speech


I thought we'd settled this: high school students don't have any freedom of anything on school grounds.
2012-05-03 04:47:04 PM
1 votes:
So sad. Poor kid thinks he's some kind of martyr.

Maybe his parents should have him read the bible and see how Jesus spread his message without being a douche about it and shoving it peoples' faces every damn day. He's showing exactly how not to spread the message.

It's hard to read the bible when you're stuck in that Jesus Christ pose.
2012-05-03 04:28:05 PM
1 votes:

dbutts: liam76: "But I didn't go for that because I have my rights as a Canadian citizen," Swinimer said.


You have no right to free speechin canada silly.

Unless of course you are a muslim insulting christians, jews or homosexuals.

Why can't we send all the religious people to an island with guns, like Hunger Games or something, and figure out who the true God is? Kinda like what they wanna do with the gays.


images.askmen.com
"Sure, let's talk about Jesus..."
2012-05-03 04:13:30 PM
1 votes:

dbutts: TNel: dbutts:

Let the dude dress and act like a douche. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him, if he harasses you, contact authorities.

Problem solved, try the fish.

He did harass people and they did contact authorities.

One person claimed that, on Facebook...not exactly solid evidence, and no mention of contacting authorities. I stand by my post....

/I stick to ma story, I am from Jamaica mon!


Here is a better article about the story and student He comes across as a fundy that enjoys pushing his religion on other people.
2012-05-03 04:10:09 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: kingoomieiii: "LIFE IS WASTED WITHOUT JESUS" isn't hateful? If you don't believe in Jesus, you're wasting your life?

No, its stating an opinion.


Legally speaking, at least within the US, stating an opinion in an inappropriate manner in an inappropriate setting can constitute harassment. Something's status as an opinion doesn't grant it super-rights or anything.
2012-05-03 04:07:28 PM
1 votes:

Crotchrocket Slim:
People with his sort of attitude are why such rules are drafted in many places.

And what's your attitude for when they do adopt such a rule?


There is no rule in my handbook saying I am not allowed to shiat in the center of the bathroom I guess I need to go and do it now.
2012-05-03 04:05:42 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: kingoomieiii: Yeah nothing hateful with 'Your life is pointless if you don't agree with me'

Do you even know what the word 'hateful' means?


A student who repeatedly harasses other students about their beliefs and uses a slightly-irritating slogan to proclaim that he will continue to do so?
2012-05-03 04:04:56 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Oh boohoo. Something on a t-shirt I disagree with!

The three most offensive things (in order) about this article:

1) The fact that someone would try to prevent him from wearing it
2) the color of the t-shirt
3) the fact he wore it every day for months (seriously?)


He has every right to wear that t-shirt, or one about Islam, or about being a Jedi, as long as there are no specific school rules that makes it forbidden to specifically wear clothes or accessories that display religious messages.

And he would have every right to take the school to court to fight those rules.


People with his sort of attitude are why such rules are drafted in many places.

And what's your attitude for when they do adopt such a rule?
2012-05-03 04:04:51 PM
1 votes:

skullkrusher:

I did indeed read the article. I don't see why his is obligated to prepend the shirt with a "My". If you go home crying to your mom because some kid's shirt says "Life is wasted without Jesus", they should be sending you to the guidance counselor, not making the kid change his shirt


He was also verbally abusing other people about their religions. Kid is nothing more than an AW who just got his outlet.
2012-05-03 04:01:24 PM
1 votes:

genner: dj_bigbird: I guess this guy hasn't read his own Bible, Matthew 6:5-7

Since when is a t-shirt the equivalent to prayer.


Actually a t-shirt is greater than prayer.
A T-shirt will:
Provide some protection from the sun.
Provide a bit of warmth in cold weather.
`
Prayer :
??
??
2012-05-03 04:00:48 PM
1 votes:
A. Is there a Canadian Civil Liberties Union?

B. Tats posting in a non Israel thread? SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE!
2012-05-03 04:00:21 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma:

He has every right to wear that t-shirt, or one about Islam, or about being a Jedi, as long as there are no specific school rules that makes it forbidden to specifically wear clothes or accessories that display religious messages.

And he would have every right to take the school to court to fight those rules.


Are you an expert on Canadian law now? The shirt's message "Life is Wasted without Jesus" could easily be considered proselytizing and offensive to other religions that don't recognize Jesus as divine. The principle said he would have been fine with a shirt that said "My life was wasted without Jesus". The school decided they don't want to allow clothes that condemn other religions the student disagrees.
2012-05-03 03:57:29 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Oh boohoo. Something on a t-shirt I disagree with!

The three most offensive things (in order) about this article:

1) The fact that someone would try to prevent him from wearing it
2) the color of the t-shirt
3) the fact he wore it every day for months (seriously?)


He has every right to wear that t-shirt, or one about Islam, or about being a Jedi, as long as there are no specific school rules that makes it forbidden to specifically wear clothes or accessories that display religious messages.

And he would have every right to take the school to court to fight those rules.


Well now that the supporter of an apartheid theocracy has chimed in, I think the discussion is over.
2012-05-03 03:56:08 PM
1 votes:
Pretty sure the problem was the kid being a dickhead about it, not the shirt. Just that easy.
2012-05-03 03:49:35 PM
1 votes:

I alone am best: Its a metaphor for saying if you're praying in public for the sole purpose of letting other people see you then you and think you are holy then you are a hypocrite. It has nothing to do with people who are praying in public for the reason of practicing their faith.


Yeah. It doesn't actually say that.
2012-05-03 03:45:41 PM
1 votes:

dbutts:

Where do you get this secret info? I see nothing here regarding such...


3rd comment in has a link.

"He claims Swinimer wore the shirt for about two weeks straight and repeatedly "verbally attacked other students about their religions.""
2012-05-03 03:40:48 PM
1 votes:

DammitIForgotMyLogin: I know which of those 3 is responsible for the most human misery throughout history.


humans are responsible for human misery. use any paint brush you want, but its people dooshing other people. their logic or reasoning is not the point because we should not be hurting or killing each other, period.
2012-05-03 03:40:12 PM
1 votes:

kid_icarus: That's racist. It's obviously just because Jesus is a middle-eastern man.


Learn something every day - I thought jesus was hispanic *shrug* oh well
2012-05-03 03:38:57 PM
1 votes:

superdolfan1: Again, I say, read the entire chapter, not just the two verses. Atheists/Agnostics/Freethinkers/et al enjoy taking those two verses out of context and use it to solidify their argument against public prayer.

Guess I'll have to have a brief Sunday School lesson here for those who are to lazy to read the entire chapter. Jesus, like the rest of us, hated disliked hypocrites, especially those who wore their faith on their sleeves, like the Pharisees. He felt prayer needed to be sincere, not an act of showmanship, which is what the Pharisees seemed to do every chance they got.

Matthew 6 talks about hypocrisy in giving to the poor, praying, fasting, etc. and was directed at those who do it to bring attention to themselves, instead of what it's really for, which is to glorify the Father. Romans 14:11 reads "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God.". Obviously somebody will be in a public place when this takes place.

And yes, the closet part is being used as a metaphor in Matt. 6:5-7.


Huh. A metaphor for what? All of the rest of us are reading this passage about being humble with your faith in God. How exactly is this metaphor you mention getting around that?
2012-05-03 03:36:29 PM
1 votes:
Stupid Canada
2012-05-03 03:36:18 PM
1 votes:

superdolfan1: Again, I say, read the entire chapter, not just the two verses. Atheists/Agnostics/Freethinkers/et al enjoy taking those two verses out of context and use it to solidify their argument against public prayer.

Guess I'll have to have a brief Sunday School lesson here for those who are to lazy to read the entire chapter. Jesus, like the rest of us, hated disliked hypocrites, especially those who wore their faith on their sleeves, like the Pharisees. He felt prayer needed to be sincere, not an act of showmanship, which is what the Pharisees seemed to do every chance they got.

Matthew 6 talks about hypocrisy in giving to the poor, praying, fasting, etc. and was directed at those who do it to bring attention to themselves, instead of what it's really for, which is to glorify the Father. Romans 14:11 reads "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God.". Obviously somebody will be in a public place when this takes place.

And yes, the closet part is being used as a metaphor in Matt. 6:5-7.


The reason most people use public prayer is indeed to show off just how good a religious person they are, and why they get so angry when someone comes out against it. It's pure vanity, so the freethinkers are spot on here. Most Christians don't seem to know about the verses, or think it's fine when they do it, effectively creating a double standard.
2012-05-03 03:30:09 PM
1 votes:

Jackson Herring: The My Little Pony Killer: And Tats? Saying "Your life is wasted without MY religion/savior/cheesecake" IS hateful, you blind fool.

Seriously, what in the god damned fark is so hard to understand about this?


Meanwhile you just want to waltz around in this shirt all the time

rlv.zcache.com
2012-05-03 03:28:05 PM
1 votes:
How about this. Wear whatever shirt you want to, but

rlv.zcache.com
2012-05-03 03:24:39 PM
1 votes:

doctor wu: All school children should take a course where they discuss and debate the concept of god, santa clause, the tooth fairy......


THIS!
2012-05-03 03:24:20 PM
1 votes:
Kill child and see if Jesus sends him back.

That should end the argument/issue.
2012-05-03 03:23:13 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Jesus got promoted? When did god retire?


he's doing a lifer for offing his kid.
2012-05-03 03:20:39 PM
1 votes:
All school children should take a course where they discuss and debate the concept of god, santa clause, the tooth fairy......
2012-05-03 03:19:11 PM
1 votes:

dbutts: TNel: dbutts:

Let the dude dress and act like a douche. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him, if he harasses you, contact authorities.

Problem solved, try the fish.

He did harass people and they did contact authorities.

SO why is the shirt the issue? It's him, send him to Utah. Please don't make me RTFA!


Because the shirt is another issue being shown that this kid is wearing said shirt to harass others without saying it.
2012-05-03 03:16:29 PM
1 votes:

kid_icarus: krafty420: Swinimer says the principal would have accepted a shirt with the slogan, "My life is wasted without Jesus."

So adding the word "my" could have saved his ass - sounds reasonable

"My life is wasted without Jesus."

Fixed.


Better fix.
2012-05-03 03:15:33 PM
1 votes:
Wow, they'd sure hate the shirt my brother gave me a while back. And I do wear it from time to time when I've got a case of the ass.

images.oldglory.com

/I will never grow up
//older than ARPANet
2012-05-03 03:15:04 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Tatsuma: Yes it does, it says in Bereshis 1 that the animals were created, and then it says that G-d formed every animal in front of Adam so he would name them.

Different words, different contexts.

Ohhh. So animals existed without any plants for them to eat, and yet somehow they were alive. Then Adam named them because god thought he was lonely, and naming the animals would make him less lonely, for some reason. And instead of simply showing him the already-existing animals, god decided to turn dirt into the animals, which again, were already existing.

Tremendous theory.


It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.

/ Written 1600 years ago...
2012-05-03 03:13:37 PM
1 votes:
Tatsuma
Because, guess what? We don't need the translations, because we speak the language, and the few times we translate it, we translate it correctly.

The world's foremost experts in transliterating ancient Hebrew sometimes disagree about certain nuances, but you think because you speak the language, as though the top people in the field don't, you've got a lock on the one true, correct version? huh.
2012-05-03 03:12:35 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Oh boohoo. Something on a t-shirt I disagree with!
.


It's called "disruptive activity." And yeah, when a kid in my future classes is disruptive with a Jesus tshirt, you're damned right I'm going to do something about it. I'm also going to do something about the disruptive kid who's wearing a marijuana leaf. And I'm going to let the kid who's not causing a disruption with her Jesus tshirt do her thang.

Educational environments, how do they work?

/MAT student
//student teaching next year
2012-05-03 03:12:24 PM
1 votes:
I stick to my Malborough T-shirt. I want to kill everybody.
2012-05-03 03:10:29 PM
1 votes:

dbutts:

Let the dude dress and act like a douche. If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him, if he harasses you, contact authorities.

Problem solved, try the fish.


He did harass people and they did contact authorities.
2012-05-03 03:05:18 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: The My Little Pony Killer: superdolfan1: And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context

Taken directly from KJV:

6:5= And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6= But thou, when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to they Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Bible disagrees with you, sparky.

And for good measure, from the NIV:

6:5= "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6:6= But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Yup, still disagrees with you.


NABRE Version

"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you."
2012-05-03 02:59:37 PM
1 votes:
Let's keep church and state (funded schools) separate. If you allow this, then you get what happened here in Gainesville. Retarded zealots burning korans and wearing Islam is of the devil t-shirts to school. Besides, fark jesus.
2012-05-03 02:19:54 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: DamnYankees: Not to mention there were clearly no Hebrew words for a ton of animals.

... except we know why that's the case. We have lost the names of many of those animals, there are even references to animals in the Torah where we go 'Well we lost the tradition of what it means exactly, so uh yeah just avoid eating all of them altogether)


Ahh the "we lost it" defense. I'll remember to use that the next time I get accused of something I didn't do. I'll just claim that it was lost.
2012-05-03 02:18:16 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Yes it does, it says in Bereshis 1 that the animals were created, and then it says that G-d formed every animal in front of Adam so he would name them.

Different words, different contexts.


Ohhh. So animals existed without any plants for them to eat, and yet somehow they were alive. Then Adam named them because god thought he was lonely, and naming the animals would make him less lonely, for some reason. And instead of simply showing him the already-existing animals, god decided to turn dirt into the animals, which again, were already existing.

Tremendous theory.
2012-05-03 02:15:33 PM
1 votes:

JohnBEsq: If this actually happened why didn't all of humanity know about them?


$10 on "Tower of Babel".
2012-05-03 02:13:31 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: It's not my decision, this is literally what the text says.


It's so obvious, none of the English translations over hundreds of years make it clear. That's how blatantly, comically obvious it was.
2012-05-03 02:12:09 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: It's not my decision, this is literally what the text says.


No, it's really not. The text says nothing at all about the animals already existing. You're making that up to fit your theory.
2012-05-03 02:11:57 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: DamnYankees: You are wrong. Genesis 2:18-19 says that God created all the animals after man was already created.

No, it does not say that 'all the animals were created after man', its saying that after man was created, he formed in front of him one animal of each and every species so he'd give them name.

Again, not the same thing at all, and not even a need to fall back on the Oral Torah.

2/10


Ok I have to ask, if Adam named all the animals why didn't everyone in the world know what a platypus or a thylacine was before Australia was explored? Even after Adam these animals were on the Ark, right?

If this actually happened why didn't all of humanity know about them?
2012-05-03 02:09:55 PM
1 votes:

kingoomieiii: Does cut and pasting from biblegateway.com count?


Nothing counts. You are arguing with someone who is Already Right.
2012-05-03 02:04:11 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Is that supposed to be a negative comment? Because I am in fact using information to show your attacks were wrong.


As long as we're arguing dumb semantics, let's be honest here. You're using information to decide he's wrong.

And by the way, even if that particular example isn't a contradiction (it is), the book is no closer to escaping its current status of "Unsupported, poorly-evidenced codswallop".

..."-Used by billions to abuse and fear billions".

..."-And with precious few redeeming messages, most of them pedestrian and obvious".
2012-05-03 01:59:11 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: I'd rather think you were lazy than the alternative.


Less consumed than yourself with an increasingly-irrelevant ancient superstition? That's preferable.
2012-05-03 01:57:55 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: DamnYankees: I would like anyone with a brain to tell me the different between "all animals" and "all the animals" in this context. Please, someone explain to me the difference, which is what Tats seemingly believes changes the meaning of everything.

Don't be so harsh on yourself.

It's really easy:

The Torah doesn't say that G-d created (which is a different verb, yetzer, and not the word used to describe creation ex nihilo) all the animals, it said that G-d formed every animal in front of Adam so he would give them individual names.

That's two completely different things.

Come on, you say you can read Hebrew, how can you pretend that 'kol X' is the same as 'kol haX'


Ladies and gentlemen - apologetics!

William Lane Craig would be so proud.
2012-05-03 01:52:02 PM
1 votes:

TNel: The My Little Pony Killer:

I would if fark would stop putting http:// inside the button.

/facepalm

Why? I go to the url bar click once and it selects the whole url, I hit ctrl c, go to fark hit the button then have to backspace out that stupid http:// then hit ctrl v. Why can't they just put the code but leave that part out, everysite but https sites work fine without haveing http:// specifically typed.

If you really wanted to read it you can copy paste yourself in less than time than it would take to edit a link in the comment box. If not no big deal it doesn't matter to me.


Because it takes two seconds to click the url button, copy OVER where it already has http:// and paste your link that way. I am not going to do the work when it is a point that YOU want to make.

Stop complaining about it. It takes two seconds.
2012-05-03 01:45:42 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Tatsuma: It says 'Elokim formed every animal'. kol chayot, not kol hachayot.

I would like anyone with a brain to tell me the different between "all animals" and "all the animals" in this context. Please, someone explain to me the difference, which is what Tats seemingly believes changes the meaning of everything.


There is none. If you haven't figured out by now that Tats only believes what Tats wants to believe, well, you're in for a ride.
2012-05-03 01:42:22 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: It says 'Elokim formed every animal'. kol chayot, not kol hachayot.


I would like anyone with a brain to tell me the different between "all animals" and "all the animals" in this context. Please, someone explain to me the difference, which is what Tats seemingly believes changes the meaning of everything.
2012-05-03 01:30:20 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: DamnYankees: I'm fine with the example I chose. Feel pretty confident about it.

I didn't even need to stretch to show why those two are wrong. Just point out you are using bad translations.


There's nothing wrong about the translations I gave. I speak Hebrew, in case you forgot.
2012-05-03 01:02:30 PM
1 votes:

superdolfan1: The My Little Pony Killer: superdolfan1: And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context

Taken directly from KJV:

6:5= And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6= But thou, when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to they Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Bible disagrees with you, sparky.

Again, I say, read the entire chapter, not just the two verses. Atheists/Agnostics/Freethinkers/et al enjoy taking those two verses out of context and use it to solidify their argument against public prayer.

Guess I'll have to have a brief Sunday School lesson here for those who are to lazy to read the entire chapter. Jesus, like the rest of us, hated disliked hypocrites, especially those who wore their faith on their sleeves, like the Pharisees. He felt prayer needed to be sincere, not an act of showmanship, which is what the Pharisees seemed to do every chance they got.

Matthew 6 talks about hypocrisy in giving to the poor, praying, fasting, etc. and was directed at those who do it to bring attention to themselves, instead of what it's really for, which is to glorify the Father. Romans 14:11 reads "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God.". Obviously somebody will be in a public place when this takes place.

And yes, the closet part is being used as a metaphor in Matt. 6:5-7.


Or you can keep ignoring the other poster who gave you the entire chapter, which confirmed exactly what I am telling you here.

But please, keep showing how modern Christians are more ignorant of the bible than Atheists. It's very amusing to me this morning.

Dinki: Glad to see Superdolfan1 is here to give us the 'pick and choose your bible verses' take on what the bible says. Like most religious hypocrites, he can't refute those parts that disagree with his mindset, so he picks a conflicting passage (and the bible is FULL of contradictions) and decides that the other passage is what God really meant, not the inconvenient one.


He also seems to think that he's the only one who could possibly understand what those verses are saying.

Oh, and he seems quite upset that me pointing out that the exact verses from that chapter, which he brought up in the first place, refute what he is claiming. But I'm the one who needs to go back to brainwashing camp sunday school.
2012-05-03 12:59:27 PM
1 votes:

Dinki: (and the bible is FULL of contradictions)


There are only contradictions when you mix in the Bible and the gospels
2012-05-03 12:57:09 PM
1 votes:
Glad to see Superdolfan1 is here to give us the 'pick and choose your bible verses' take on what the bible says. Like most religious hypocrites, he can't refute those parts that disagree with his mindset, so he picks a conflicting passage (and the bible is FULL of contradictions) and decides that the other passage is what God really meant, not the inconvenient one.
2012-05-03 12:56:49 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: As far as that whole passage, explain mega-churches to me.


kingoomieiii: The entire chapter is an almost prescient condemnation of modern Christians. Why are you still digging this hole?


We're on the same page here. For all the lip service he gets, Jesus's philosophy doesn't factor into Christianity much anymore.
2012-05-03 12:51:39 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Yeah nothing hateful with 'Hitler was right' or 'Black people should be slaves'

I hope you're trolling otherwise there is no curing that brand of stupidity


According to your own words earlier, it's not hateful because it's stating an opinion.
2012-05-03 12:51:04 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: superdolfan1: And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context

Taken directly from KJV:

6:5= And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6= But thou, when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to they Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Bible disagrees with you, sparky.


Again, I say, read the entire chapter, not just the two verses. Atheists/Agnostics/Freethinkers/et al enjoy taking those two verses out of context and use it to solidify their argument against public prayer.

Guess I'll have to have a brief Sunday School lesson here for those who are to lazy to read the entire chapter. Jesus, like the rest of us, hated disliked hypocrites, especially those who wore their faith on their sleeves, like the Pharisees. He felt prayer needed to be sincere, not an act of showmanship, which is what the Pharisees seemed to do every chance they got.

Matthew 6 talks about hypocrisy in giving to the poor, praying, fasting, etc. and was directed at those who do it to bring attention to themselves, instead of what it's really for, which is to glorify the Father. Romans 14:11 reads "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God.". Obviously somebody will be in a public place when this takes place.

And yes, the closet part is being used as a metaphor in Matt. 6:5-7.
2012-05-03 12:44:57 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: And Tats? Saying "Your life is wasted without MY religion/savior/cheesecake" IS hateful, you blind fool.


Seriously, what in the god damned fark is so hard to understand about this?
2012-05-03 12:43:52 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: kingoomieiii: "LIFE IS WASTED WITHOUT JESUS" isn't hateful? If you don't believe in Jesus, you're wasting your life?

No, its stating an opinion.

If I wear a tshirt saying 'Go play outside, video games lead to a wasted life', is that hateful?


"Jesus was retarded"
"Hitler was right"
"Black people should be slaves"

What they are all opinions they can't be hateful since they are my opinion.
2012-05-03 12:40:14 PM
1 votes:
My life is wasted with Jesus.

tshirtgroove.com
2012-05-03 12:31:33 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: superdolfan1: And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context

Taken directly from KJV:

6:5= And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6= But thou, when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to they Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Bible disagrees with you, sparky.


I'm pretty sure a lot of them are in the closet
2012-05-03 12:24:19 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Oh boohoo. Something on a t-shirt I disagree with!

The three most offensive things (in order) about this article:

1) The fact that someone would try to prevent him from wearing it
2) the color of the t-shirt
3) the fact he wore it every day for months (seriously?)


He has every right to wear that t-shirt, or one about Islam, or about being a Jedi, as long as there are no specific school rules that makes it forbidden to specifically wear clothes or accessories that display religious messages.

And he would have every right to take the school to court to fight those rules.


Came to say something like this.

Then saw this

dj_bigbird: I guess this guy hasn't read his own Bible, Matthew 6:5-7


And neither have you. Read Matthew 6 in its entirety and then get back to me as to what verses 5-7 actually say. And no, it has nothing to do with closets.

/Hates it when atheists take Matt. 6:5 out of context
2012-05-03 12:01:11 PM
1 votes:
How would he have felt if someone was wearing a "Life is wasted without Muhammad." Not before he took his stand though of course now he would say everyone has the right to free speech but I'm willing to bet he would have been the first one to run to the Principal's office complaining.
2012-05-03 11:34:08 AM
1 votes:
Swinimer wore the T-shirt every day to class for several weeks. The principal told him repeatedly to stop wearing it, but the student refused to comply.



Maybe he got suspended for being farking disgusting. Seriously, a teenage boy who refuses to change his shirt for weeks? They can probably smell him from Ottowa.
2012-05-03 11:24:51 AM
1 votes:
I know which of those 3 is responsible for the most human misery throughout history.
2012-05-03 11:16:31 AM
1 votes:
Oh boohoo. Something on a t-shirt I disagree with!

The three most offensive things (in order) about this article:

1) The fact that someone would try to prevent him from wearing it
2) the color of the t-shirt
3) the fact he wore it every day for months (seriously?)


He has every right to wear that t-shirt, or one about Islam, or about being a Jedi, as long as there are no specific school rules that makes it forbidden to specifically wear clothes or accessories that display religious messages.

And he would have every right to take the school to court to fight those rules.
 
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