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(Some Guy)   "LONG LIVE COMMUNISM" and other Occupy Chicago pictures you won't see in the mainstream media   ( libertynews.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Occupy Chicago, communist revolution, Chicago School, Joseph Stalin, apartheid, May Day, religion and politics, International Workers of the World  
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3504 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 May 2012 at 1:39 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-03 02:47:00 PM  

skullkrusher: I have a lathe. I can produce 100 chair legs a day with it.
Business is going well so I take 2 months worth of profits and buy a 2nd lathe and hire someone to work that one while I work the first.

Did I just hire an employee or a business partner?


Are they paid a wage, or share profits?
 
2012-05-03 02:48:32 PM  

skullkrusher: libertarianism hasn't killed anyone (yet)


it's more like smoking where it takes years or decades off your life.
 
2012-05-03 02:49:08 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.


The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.
 
2012-05-03 02:49:20 PM  

JerseyTim: As much as this guy is a jackass, you have to admit it takes a special kind of asshole to have a flag with Stalin on it.


We got people in this country that worship Hitler and jerk off to Mein Kampf, so it stands to reason there are assholes on the other side as well.

What I want to know is when it become illegal or immoral to express your political viewpoint in this country, no matter how kooky it may be.
 
2012-05-03 02:49:25 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Your product has no value unless labor was put into my friend. Kiss your worker's collective asses because you are nothing without them.

and the value of labor is miniscule without capital. It's almost as if both are important, Mr Bang Two Rocks Together To Sharpen A Stick :)

/crap, rocks are capital
//as are sticks

Capital is not as important as you may think. If all the money in the world just vanished into thin air, would people stop working? No. People will work and continue to change their surroundings (i.e. labor) in order to live and survive. Labor is a natural, capital is not.


Without currency (in this case, capital), people switch to a barter system (trading labor for food or products directly). Capital is hardly necessary for labor, though it does make trading labor for goods or services far more efficient.
 
2012-05-03 02:49:45 PM  
A few dumb kids wearing communist slogans doesn't bother me, this is farking America.

A Wal-Mart filled head to toe with Communist Chinese merchandise does.

/Jus' sayin.
 
2012-05-03 02:51:13 PM  

lunogled: Not a fan of Stalin, Churchill, and especially people who dont understand that history is not a good-bad guys story


What does that have to do with the fact that flying a flag of Stalin as a model ideal for this country is just stupid? No one is claiming history is good vs. bad guy, but I think you'd have a hard time finding people that would find Stalin's methods of leadership preferable to what we have today in U.S. I'd take the Republicans over Stalin any day.
 
2012-05-03 02:51:56 PM  

Jackson Herring: It's pretty sad that after all of these years, the first image macro I ever made is the one that people will remember the most.


It's classic, but I prefer your more high-brow version

i194.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-03 02:53:32 PM  
And I just remembered I made this one

i194.photobucket.com

You know, in case anyone wants to post it again in the future
 
2012-05-03 02:54:00 PM  

gulogulo: I'd take the Republicans over Stalin any day.


THIS IS WHAT REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEIR OPTIONS ARE.
 
2012-05-03 02:55:22 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: What I want to know is when it become illegal or immoral to express your political viewpoint in this country, no matter how kooky it may be.


No one is saying it's illegal or immoral to express your opinion. I might express my opinion to think an opinion is immoral and stupid, though. My personal opinion means that if I am supporting a group, it means I'm always willing to turn a critical eye inwards to make sure I agree with what's being said and how it's being said. Wasn't that the cry of the left when the right didn't denounce their wackos?
 
2012-05-03 02:56:28 PM  

gulogulo: lunogled: Not a fan of Stalin, Churchill, and especially people who dont understand that history is not a good-bad guys story

What does that have to do with the fact that flying a flag of Stalin as a model ideal for this country is just stupid? No one is claiming history is good vs. bad guy, but I think you'd have a hard time finding people that would find Stalin's methods of leadership preferable to what we have today in U.S. I'd take the Republicans over Stalin any day.


Would you take Churchill over Stalin? If you were an Indian suffering from famine in the 1940s, I would not be so sure.
(India, by the way, would be the example of a country where Stalin is pretty popular as a historical figure More than Churchill)
 
2012-05-03 02:58:53 PM  

EyeballKid: gulogulo: I'd take the Republicans over Stalin any day.

THIS IS WHAT REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEIR OPTIONS ARE.


I'm a Democrat. Way to take out of context the entire point of what I was saying and be just as bad as the guys on the far right. Anyone flying the flag with Stalin as a model for America's future really is an idiot. As a Democrat, I recognize how stupid that is. As a Democrat I recognize that my opposition is still preferable to that level of stupidity. However, I do not believe that it's that dichotomous choice. They have a right to express themselves, but they don't represent me.
 
2012-05-03 03:00:18 PM  

lunogled: Would you take Churchill over Stalin? If you were an Indian suffering from famine in the 1940s, I would not be so sure.
(India, by the way, would be the example of a country where Stalin is pretty popular as a historical figure More than Churchill)


What is this red-herring you're presenting? I'm for neither Churchhill or Stalin in this argument. I'm not sure what this has to do with the fact that flying a Stalin flag as a representation of the direction you want American to go in is -stupid-.
 
2012-05-03 03:00:28 PM  

QU!RK1019: skullkrusher: I have a lathe. I can produce 100 chair legs a day with it.
Business is going well so I take 2 months worth of profits and buy a 2nd lathe and hire someone to work that one while I work the first.

Did I just hire an employee or a business partner?

Are they paid a wage, or share profits?


tomato tomahto. Whatever I pay him reduces my profits so he is sharing profits already.
 
2012-05-03 03:00:31 PM  

gulogulo: I might express my opinion to think an opinion is immoral and stupid, though. My personal opinion means that if I am supporting a group, it means I'm always willing to turn a critical eye inwards to make sure I agree with what's being said and how it's being said. Wasn't that the cry of the left when the right didn't denounce their wackos?


You're presuming that the OWS movement speaks with a single voice, which it doesn't, as opposed to the Tea Party and other Right Wing ventures, which do.

/There's a big difference between being inclusive and accepting everyone no matter how crazy their are, and embracing the ideas of the most insane and making them your groups' rallying cry.
 
2012-05-03 03:01:31 PM  

mongbiohazard: 1. I say this as a committed, unrepentant capitalist: The robber baron scumbag crony capitalism which is slowly impoverishing most of us and weakening our national economy is what the OWS people are pissed about AND is the strongest recruiting tool communism may ever have had. We really have a system of oligarchic corruption being perpetuated between our political and business elites... but it's being masqueraded as true blue capitalism, even when it isn't, and that's giving actual well regulated capitalism a bad name.


Crony capitalism is the only capitalism America has ever known. It's why Karl Marx said "government is the executive committee of the capitalist class." I don't know what you mean by "true blue capitalism." Maybe it's similar to the kind of "true blue communism" extreme leftists say never really existed either.
 
2012-05-03 03:01:47 PM  

gulogulo: Anyone flying the flag with Stalin as a model for America's future really is an idiot.


You're presuming to know why the guy was flying that flag. How is that possible?
 
2012-05-03 03:01:48 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.

The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.


why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?
 
2012-05-03 03:03:23 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: You're presuming that the OWS movement speaks with a single voice, which it doesn't, as opposed to the Tea Party and other Right Wing ventures, which do.

/There's a big difference between being inclusive and accepting everyone no matter how crazy their are, and embracing the ideas of the most insane and making them your groups' rallying cry.


And maybe that's a reason not to support the OWS movement any more. Accepting every crazy idea no matter how crazy it is isn't exactly a unifying direction for society or government. I would not support, either, the embracing of an insane idea either.
 
2012-05-03 03:05:15 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: gulogulo: Anyone flying the flag with Stalin as a model for America's future really is an idiot.

You're presuming to know why the guy was flying that flag. How is that possible?


You're right. He should make his position more clear so it can't be taken so out of context, as it is shown with a flag of Che (who incidentally is worn on shirts by hipsters everywhere whom have no idea that he didn't represent merely freedom as much as he did mass murder and violent oppression).
 
2012-05-03 03:05:17 PM  

bugontherug: Crony capitalism is the only capitalism America has ever known. It's why Karl Marx said "government is the executive committee of the capitalist class." I don't know what you mean by "true blue capitalism." Maybe it's similar to the kind of "true blue communism" extreme leftists say never really existed either.



I know you're stupid, but you shouldn't make your ignorance so obvious in public.

It's a historical fact that no nation has ever attempted Marxist-style Communism.

It's also a historical fact that the United States in the 19th century came as close to the libertarian capitalist ideal as any nation has ever come, and that it was a time of EXTREME economic chaos because of the lack of regulation and control.
 
2012-05-03 03:05:26 PM  

skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: skullkrusher: dude, point was that the automakers were collapsing because of their own fault

The point is that if the credit market was there instead of being devastated, GM could have gone through a normal restructuring without government stepping in as a last resort.

facts straight outta yer bum - also irrelevant to the tangent we were on


Apparent my bum and a whole slew of Financial experts. Not sure how wearing a UAW hoodie is ironic to poor management by GM either since they don't represent them. Maybe if he were wearing a Dodge jacket...
 
2012-05-03 03:05:37 PM  

EyeballKid: skullkrusher: EyeballKid: Uh huh.

Say, where's the thread about the neo-Nazi affiliated with the OWS movement who murdered his family? Oh, that's right....

you want a thread about neo-Nazis being bad? Bold.

You're right. That wouldn't be bold. But, he wasn't just a Nazi, was he?


Anybody got a link to this thread?
 
2012-05-03 03:06:10 PM  

skullkrusher: tomato tomahto. Whatever I pay him reduces my profits so he is sharing profits already.


It's different than that, man. Is his wage a fixed rate or a percentage of the profit?
 
2012-05-03 03:06:49 PM  
The signs on the left are always funnier.

img338.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-03 03:08:28 PM  

DozeNutz: Sorry, but openly calling for communism/socalism, after its complete failure all over the world, and human rights violations,.


Yeah, "libertarian" economics are so much better. I mean, in the late 19th/early 20th century, America was just peachy for anyone who wasn't obscenely wealthy.
 
2012-05-03 03:09:33 PM  

gulogulo: And maybe that's a reason not to support the OWS movement any more. Accepting every crazy idea no matter how crazy it is isn't exactly a unifying direction for society or government.


Who said OWS was supposed to be a unifying direction for our society?

gulogulo: You're right. He should make his position more clear so it can't be taken so out of context


You're still making assumptions. He may well have been carrying the banner as an anti-fascist protest. He may have been carrying it because he thought it looked cool.

I will tell you with absolute certainty that the flag in question dates to the 1980s and was made before the fall of the Soviet Union. It is a relic, and relics carry all sorts of meaning.

gulogulo: (who incidentally is worn on shirts by hipsters everywhere whom have no idea that he didn't represent merely freedom as much as he did mass murder and violent oppression).


Meh. You'd have a better argument there if that hadn't been said a thousand times and if hipsters venerated Casto and not Che.
 
2012-05-03 03:11:39 PM  
Holy shiat, there was socialists and communists out protesting on May Day?

www.itusozluk.com
 
2012-05-03 03:12:14 PM  

Fart_Machine: Not sure how wearing a UAW hoodie is ironic to poor management by GM either since they don't represent them.


Somehow it's the unions fault that the management of GM gave the unions whatever the hell they asked for for decades, even though the unions were happy to start making concessions the moment (in the 1980s) it became clear the good times were over.
 
2012-05-03 03:12:31 PM  

Captain_Ballbeard: Capitalism is the collectivization of Capital.

Communism is the collectivization of Labor.

whats the problem? Except that Labor is real and Money is an artificial construct.


You are mistaking Money for Capital. A common mistake among people of your political persuasion.
/If communists had a better understanding of Capital, they wouldn't be communists.
 
2012-05-03 03:13:00 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.

The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.

why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?


Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.
 
2012-05-03 03:14:07 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Who said OWS was supposed to be a unifying direction for our society?

You're still making assumptions. He may well have been carrying the banner as an anti-fascist protest. He may have been carrying it because he thought it looked cool.

I will tell you with absolute certainty that the flag in question dates to the 1980s and was made before the fall of the Soviet Union. It is a relic, and relics carry all sorts of meaning.

Meh. You'd have a better argument there if that hadn't been said a thousand times and if hipsters venerated Casto and not Che.


Yet, we see a Che banner after a brief lesson in history proves he wasn't someone I think of when I think of "freedom." And yes, I am making assumptions, perhaps it does mean something else. Lastly, what's the point of a movement if not a unifying idea? Just for the sake of protesting? There has to be a point, no, or otherwise it's an exercise in futility. I'm not much for wasting time.
 
2012-05-03 03:14:18 PM  

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.

The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.

why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.


ooh, with vanilla frosting!
 
2012-05-03 03:15:05 PM  

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.

The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.

why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.

ooh, with vanilla frosting!


And you all wonder why I'm a socialist! It's for the farking cake people. Though your recipe for bagel chips did sound damn good.
 
2012-05-03 03:15:59 PM  

FarkedOver: why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.


You'll have to excuse me as I have Skull on ignore because he swings from wilful ignorance to outright belligerence with nothing between, but when in the hell did the standard for contentment in society become "you have enough to eat"? If we'd stopped there, we'd still be living in the river valleys and planting grain with our bare hands.
 
2012-05-03 03:16:20 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: bugontherug: Crony capitalism is the only capitalism America has ever known. It's why Karl Marx said "government is the executive committee of the capitalist class." I don't know what you mean by "true blue capitalism." Maybe it's similar to the kind of "true blue communism" extreme leftists say never really existed either.


I know you're stupid, but you shouldn't make your ignorance so obvious in public.

It's a historical fact that no nation has ever attempted Marxist-style Communism.

It's also a historical fact that the United States in the 19th century came as close to the libertarian capitalist ideal as any nation has ever come, and that it was a time of EXTREME economic chaos because of the lack of regulation and control.


Communism and Libertarianism have the same problem; both philosophies are EXTREMELY easy to abuse, and, given human nature, they WILL be abused to give a few people extreme power over others. And that leads to oppression and general shiattiness.
 
2012-05-03 03:16:54 PM  

QU!RK1019: skullkrusher: tomato tomahto. Whatever I pay him reduces my profits so he is sharing profits already.

It's different than that, man. Is his wage a fixed rate or a percentage of the profit?


heh just snarkin'. Depending on how it was structured. Either is possible. Could be based on production, hourly, % of profits, whatever. The important distinction is that he is not entitled to an equal share of the profits - he isn't the one who saved up to buy the lathe and taking the risk - of course I am free to give it to him but there is no obligation.
 
2012-05-03 03:17:01 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: FarkedOver: why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.

You'll have to excuse me as I have Skull on ignore because he swings from wilful ignorance to outright belligerence with nothing between, but when in the hell did the standard for contentment in society become "you have enough to eat"? If we'd stopped there, we'd still be living in the river valleys and planting grain with our bare hands.


I think it was a Marie Antoinette joke.
 
2012-05-03 03:17:55 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: FarkedOver: why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.

You'll have to excuse me as I have Skull on ignore because he swings from wilful ignorance to outright belligerence with nothing between, but when in the hell did the standard for contentment in society become "you have enough to eat"? If we'd stopped there, we'd still be living in the river valleys and planting grain with our bare hands.


you have me on ignore because you're a joyless farkwit. Poe's Law is the last refuge of the lazy scoundrel who just wants more cake.
 
2012-05-03 03:19:29 PM  

Fart_Machine: Apparent my bum and a whole slew of Financial experts


slew away, my good man. Of course, bad loans is a big part of what got us into this mess so perhaps they would've thrown some GM's stumbling way after all.
 
2012-05-03 03:19:43 PM  

gulogulo: Yet, we see a Che banner after a brief lesson in history proves he wasn't someone I think of when I think of "freedom."


Then you should consider reading up on the history of Cuba.
 
2012-05-03 03:20:27 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: FarkedOver: why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.

You'll have to excuse me as I have Skull on ignore because he swings from wilful ignorance to outright belligerence with nothing between, but when in the hell did the standard for contentment in society become "you have enough to eat"? If we'd stopped there, we'd still be living in the river valleys and planting grain with our bare hands.


Skull isn't the monster you make him out to be. He's pretty funny. We're probably at opposite ends of the political spectrum on many many issues but funny is funny.
 
2012-05-03 03:23:38 PM  

LordJiro: Communism and Libertarianism have the same problem; both philosophies are EXTREMELY easy to abuse, and, given human nature, they WILL be abused to give a few people extreme power over others. And that leads to oppression and general shiattiness.


Indeed. Events of the last few years have made me into a Socialist of the pre-Marx variety; Capitalism needs strong social controls and Socialism needs money from capital to work. Capital and Labor should work together, not against each other.

Germany is in the midst of proving that a strong Socialist democracy is far more stable than whatever the hell we've got. They're only feeling the effects of the recession because they're having to bail everyone else out.
 
2012-05-03 03:23:47 PM  

Dwight_Yeast:
You're right both that Marxists say true Communism has never been tried, and that libertarians claim true capitalism has never been tried. And by my own admission, both groups are substantively right. But I'm going to call you stupid and quarrel over irrelevancies because I lack the intelligence to grasp that I've just confirmed what you just said.


Why thank you. I agree too that the 19th century America, with its slavery, subjugation of women, wars of imperial aggression, and more comes closest to "true" capitalism the world has ever seen.
 
2012-05-03 03:27:11 PM  

FarkedOver: Dwight_Yeast: FarkedOver: why are the workers always threatening violence? Don't you farks have enough cake to eat?

Our appetite for cake is quite unquenchable. Especially marble cake.

You'll have to excuse me as I have Skull on ignore because he swings from wilful ignorance to outright belligerence with nothing between, but when in the hell did the standard for contentment in society become "you have enough to eat"? If we'd stopped there, we'd still be living in the river valleys and planting grain with our bare hands.

Skull isn't the monster you make him out to be. He's pretty funny. We're probably at opposite ends of the political spectrum on many many issues but funny is funny.


check's in the mail, mom
 
2012-05-03 03:27:35 PM  

FarkedOver: We're probably at opposite ends of the political spectrum


I don't care which end of the spectrum he's on. I've just had one too many arguments where he pretended to not understand a position or issue, and then once it was explained to him in great detail, he got so angry he started threating people in the thread and then stormed out.

It gets old fast, and if I want to have those sort of "discussions" I can just hang out with my drunken and verbally abusive old man.
 
2012-05-03 03:27:44 PM  

bugontherug: mongbiohazard: 1. I say this as a committed, unrepentant capitalist: The robber baron scumbag crony capitalism which is slowly impoverishing most of us and weakening our national economy is what the OWS people are pissed about AND is the strongest recruiting tool communism may ever have had. We really have a system of oligarchic corruption being perpetuated between our political and business elites... but it's being masqueraded as true blue capitalism, even when it isn't, and that's giving actual well regulated capitalism a bad name.

Crony capitalism is the only capitalism America has ever known. It's why Karl Marx said "government is the executive committee of the capitalist class." I don't know what you mean by "true blue capitalism." Maybe it's similar to the kind of "true blue communism" extreme leftists say never really existed either.



Call me idealistic, but I just see it simply as boring, properly regulated capitalism. What we have now is oligarchic bullshiat with politicians bending over backwards to funnel trucks full of cash to each other and their buddies in the elite - that's contrary to healthy capitalism.
 
2012-05-03 03:29:09 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I don't care which end of the spectrum he's on. I've just had one too many arguments where he pretended to not understand a position or issue, and then once it was explained to him in great detail, he got so angry he started threating people in the thread and then stormed out.


when the FARK did that happen?
 
2012-05-03 03:29:37 PM  

FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: LOL. And you have no widget making machine without my capital. Good luck finding enough berries to feed your family if you remove your labor from the workforce.

The workers will stand idly by while you hoard your precious things.


Ah yes "Give us your stuff or we'll kill you".

Why don't communists and other far-left anarchists just start with the extortion angle instead of waiting until all their embarrassing economic arguments are shot down? It would save everyone time.
 
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