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(The Atlantic Wire)   Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law means you cannot be prosecuted for using deadly force against an attacker-unless you're a woman who fires a warning shot to stop your husband's attack-then you get 20 years   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 448
    More: Asinine, warning shot, fires  
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15091 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2012 at 8:55 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-02 08:21:16 AM  
Subby, it should read, "unless you're a black woman who fires..."
 
2012-05-02 08:50:54 AM  
I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.
 
2012-05-02 08:54:25 AM  

Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.


The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?
 
2012-05-02 08:56:32 AM  

jbuist: If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court


Forgot to mention she was re-arrested on domestic battery charges during the trial.

So, yeah. Credibility shot.
 
2012-05-02 08:56:54 AM  
women be shoppin'
 
2012-05-02 08:57:24 AM  
Why Couldn't Marissa Alexander Stand Her Ground in Florida?

I didn't even need to read the article.
 
2012-05-02 08:57:27 AM  
20 years for firing a shot that didn't hit anyone?! The US penal system has become a farce. That's just ridiculous.

You could rape and murder someone and be back on the streets faster than that.
 
2012-05-02 08:57:29 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


Yeah, I wouldn't have done anything different if I was on the jury. Fark her.
 
2012-05-02 08:57:53 AM  
It was my understanding that she was in her own home. In many jurisdictions, stand your ground doesn't even apply if you're being attacked in your own home, because you are allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself in the place where you live.

Here, the man was coming after her, and she didn't even fire a shot at him....only at the ceiling to show him she meant business. It worked--he ran away and nobody got hurt. I don't see how that could possibly even constitute using deadly force against an attacker. More like deadly force against the ceiling....
 
2012-05-02 08:58:46 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


I didn't find that information in the article. Maybe it was linked somewhere.
 
2012-05-02 08:59:15 AM  

Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.


Discharging a firearm within a home is, legally, use of deadly force. Firing a "warning shot", rather than a shot directly aimed at an attacker, implies that the shooter did not believe him or herself to be facing imminent death or grievous bodily injury preventable only through immediate application of deadly force. As such, a "warning shot" cannot be legally justified.
 
2012-05-02 08:59:26 AM  
jbuist: The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

 
2012-05-02 08:59:56 AM  

ambassador_ahab: Subby, it should read, "unless you're a black woman who fires..."


My first version of the headline included that word, I edited it out because there's really no evidence this is about race rather than gender politics, and Florida's legal system is stupid enough without throwing out inflammatory potential red herrings.into the mix
 
2012-05-02 09:00:08 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


Plus, it kind of sounds like the immediate threat was over by the time she shot. It's not like she fired while he was choking her.

While it's a strange case and a badly written law, people tend to forget that there's more to any case than which statutes are involved.
 
2012-05-02 09:00:46 AM  
The law is applied differently between African-Americans and whites

Just because his name isn't Manuel Rodriguez doesn't mean he's white
 
2012-05-02 09:00:55 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


jbuist: jbuist: If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court

Forgot to mention she was re-arrested on domestic battery charges during the trial.

So, yeah. Credibility shot.


does now...thanks. Was wondering...20 years for a warning shot??? wtf? but that makes sense...
 
2012-05-02 09:01:10 AM  

ambassador_ahab: It was my understanding that she was in her own home. In many jurisdictions, stand your ground doesn't even apply if you're being attacked in your own home, because you are allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself in the place where you live.

Here, the man was coming after her, and she didn't even fire a shot at him....only at the ceiling to show him she meant business. It worked--he ran away and nobody got hurt. I don't see how that could possibly even constitute using deadly force against an attacker. More like deadly force against the ceiling....


This is one of those "need to read multiple articles" things, because her story had issues.
 
2012-05-02 09:05:18 AM  
This is the charge they are jailing her over because she probably needs to be in jail. 20 years for a warning shot seems harsh but like I think of coworkers (and maybe they of me) 'They'll fire you for being on the internet because they can't just fire you for being a douche.'
 
2012-05-02 09:06:09 AM  

Cythraul: I didn't find that information in the article.


Of course not. It wouldn't fit the narrative.

Here's a link. Sebastian dug through the court records to figure out WTF went wrong with her case.

Long story short: Everything.
 
2012-05-02 09:07:44 AM  
Stupid broad. If she fired towards him, she should have told the police, "I shot at him and missed. He didn't wait around for me to correct my aim. Since he ran, I didn't fire again.

Stand your ground would have covered her, all except for her idiotic reconciliation with him.
 
2012-05-02 09:08:14 AM  

Magorn: ambassador_ahab: Subby, it should read, "unless you're a black woman who fires..."

My first version of the headline included that word, I edited it out because there's really no evidence this is about race rather than gender politics, and Florida's legal system is stupid enough without throwing out inflammatory potential red herrings.into the mix


Or it might have something to do with the actual facts of the case. That article was so devoid of actual facts it may as well be a farking editorial.

SharkTrager: jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?

Plus, it kind of sounds like the immediate threat was over by the time she shot. It's not like she fired while he was choking her.

While it's a strange case and a badly written law, people tend to forget that there's more to any case than which statutes are involved.


Quoting this because it contains the facts of the case and your statement is oh so very true.
 
2012-05-02 09:09:20 AM  
Actually Florida's SYG law means that you can use deadly force provided that a) you're not the initial aggressor, b)you've attempted to defuse the situation and c)after following the criteria in a and b and you're still under duress and your life is in grave danger then feel free to stand your ground.

And the what the hell is a warning shot? If you shoot, shoot to maim/kill.
 
2012-05-02 09:09:33 AM  
Rule #1: Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destory
Rule #2: NEVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT

/if you're facing a real imminent threat to your life you do not have time to fire a warning shot
//plus a gun is not a precision weapon and you don't know where that bullet will end up
 
2012-05-02 09:10:54 AM  
20 years is a bit much.

Firing a warning shot is a pretty damn stupid idea.
 
2012-05-02 09:11:06 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't find that information in the article.

Of course not. It wouldn't fit the narrative.

Here's a link. Sebastian dug through the court records to figure out WTF went wrong with her case.

Long story short: Everything.


Making mistakes before or after the incident doesn't change the facts of the original case. She fired a gun at a guy who was attacking her. That's not illegal under Florida law.
 
2012-05-02 09:13:10 AM  
Ok, if i'm reading this right, she's getting 20 years for a WARNING SHOT that didn't even connect? Wtf is this sorcery?
 
2012-05-02 09:13:21 AM  

jbuist: jbuist: If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court

Forgot to mention she was re-arrested on domestic battery charges during the trial.

So, yeah. Credibility shot.


IANAL, but I don't believe that would have come up during her trial for the 3 charges of aggravated assault for which she was found guilty.

I served on a jury for auto theft once. It seemed fairly obvious the guy was wasted when he was arrested but this was not mentioned at all - just that he was found passed out in the car which had crashed into a cul-de-sac and was still running. We weren't considering any other charges (and did not know if any other charges had been brought).

This article didn't even say what she was charged with. It's fairly one-sided and relies on her own words. Some people actually believe she got 20 years for firing a gun into a ceiling.
 
2012-05-02 09:13:41 AM  

BurnShrike: 20 years for firing a shot that didn't hit anyone?! The US penal system has become a farce. That's just ridiculous.

You could rape and murder someone and be back on the streets faster than that.


Really? Time to get my arse to Florida and get my rape on.

But it would only be date rape, not rape rape.
 
2012-05-02 09:13:58 AM  
Warning shot is the issue. If you can fire just a warning then you are no longer in fear for your life.

This is not rocket surgery.
 
2012-05-02 09:14:08 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Rule #1: Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destory
Rule #2: NEVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT

/if you're facing a real imminent threat to your life you do not have time to fire a warning shot
//plus a gun is not a precision weapon and you don't know where that bullet will end up


Never fire a warning shot? Okay, quick scenario:

Guy with a butcher knife is coming towards me, threatening my life. I have a gun in my hand, but I think maybe if I just scare the shiat out of him, taking his life will not be necessary. If I can't fire a warning shot in the air, or the ground, do I menacingly show him my weapon without pointing it at him, or something?
 
2012-05-02 09:14:11 AM  

BurnShrike: 20 years for firing a shot that didn't hit anyone?! The US penal system has become a farce. That's just ridiculous.

You could rape and murder someone and be back on the streets faster than that.


Mandatory minimums can be a biatch. The problem is they sound good in campaigns. Not sure if that is the case here though.
 
2012-05-02 09:14:51 AM  

imontheinternet: jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't find that information in the article.

Of course not. It wouldn't fit the narrative.

Here's a link. Sebastian dug through the court records to figure out WTF went wrong with her case.

Long story short: Everything.

Making mistakes before or after the incident doesn't change the facts of the original case. She fired a gun at a guy who was attacking her. That's not illegal under Florida law.


Did you read his post? No, it doesn't change the facts of the original case, but it ruined her credibility, which is kind of necessary if you want the jury to believe you. The sentence does seem overly harsh considering the amount of harm done, but I don't necessarily think the guilty verdict was wrong.
 
2012-05-02 09:15:47 AM  
Can we start another "I hate skittles, tea, and black people so let's shoot them all" thread? To late? Righteo man righteo.
 
2012-05-02 09:16:44 AM  

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: Rule #1: Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destory
Rule #2: NEVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT

/if you're facing a real imminent threat to your life you do not have time to fire a warning shot
//plus a gun is not a precision weapon and you don't know where that bullet will end up

Never fire a warning shot? Okay, quick scenario:

Guy with a butcher knife is coming towards me, threatening my life. I have a gun in my hand, but I think maybe if I just scare the shiat out of him, taking his life will not be necessary. If I can't fire a warning shot in the air, or the ground, do I menacingly show him my weapon without pointing it at him, or something?


You shoot him in the face.

kim jong-un: BurnShrike: 20 years for firing a shot that didn't hit anyone?! The US penal system has become a farce. That's just ridiculous.

You could rape and murder someone and be back on the streets faster than that.

Mandatory minimums can be a biatch. The problem is they sound good in campaigns. Not sure if that is the case here though.


It is the case. She turned down a plea though.
 
2012-05-02 09:16:51 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


Still, no.

What the hell kind of lawyer did she enlist that would even allow most of your details into the trial?

Whether or not she returned to her abuser is not relevant. Returning doesn't mean she was in less danger or is under less fear.

I'd also argue that she never lied to the police. She thought she fired at the ceiling (drtfa).

The only significant detail in your rant is that she fired in the direction of her kids (which is a negligent action). It's not a 20 years detail.
 
2012-05-02 09:16:53 AM  
she shoulda been in the kitchen makin' sammiches.
 
2012-05-02 09:17:47 AM  

jaybeezey:
Really? Time to get my arse to Florida and get my rape on.


you clearly haven't been following the news

/somebody's going to stand their ground on your ass
 
2012-05-02 09:17:49 AM  
She fired a warning shot across her bo?
 
2012-05-02 09:18:03 AM  

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: Rule #1: Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destory
Rule #2: NEVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT

/if you're facing a real imminent threat to your life you do not have time to fire a warning shot
//plus a gun is not a precision weapon and you don't know where that bullet will end up

Never fire a warning shot? Okay, quick scenario:

Guy with a butcher knife is coming towards me, threatening my life. I have a gun in my hand, but I think maybe if I just scare the shiat out of him, taking his life will not be necessary. If I can't fire a warning shot in the air, or the ground, do I menacingly show him my weapon without pointing it at him, or something?


No, you aim center of mass and keep shooting until he's no longer a threat. Hesitating in that situation can cost you your life, attackers can cover ground pretty quickly and be on top of you before you know it.
 
2012-05-02 09:18:31 AM  

jbuist: jbuist: If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court

Forgot to mention she was re-arrested on domestic battery charges during the trial.

So, yeah. Credibility shot.


Again, not information that should have been introduced during the trial.
 
2012-05-02 09:20:04 AM  
DUMBmitterdid a nice job of picking an article with no facts and then writing a trolling/misleading headline.
 
2012-05-02 09:20:47 AM  
Only white people fire "warning shots", subby. Black people "get their gat on".
 
2012-05-02 09:20:51 AM  

Cythraul: Voiceofreason01: Rule #1: Don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destory
Rule #2: NEVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT

/if you're facing a real imminent threat to your life you do not have time to fire a warning shot
//plus a gun is not a precision weapon and you don't know where that bullet will end up

Never fire a warning shot? Okay, quick scenario:

Guy with a butcher knife is coming towards me, threatening my life. I have a gun in my hand, but I think maybe if I just scare the shiat out of him, taking his life will not be necessary. If I can't fire a warning shot in the air, or the ground, do I menacingly show him my weapon without pointing it at him, or something?


You shoot and don't stop shooting until you are out of bullets. Police say an attacker can cover 21 feet before you can draw and shoot your weapon if someone is running at you they are likely already closer than that. By the time you "fire a warning shot" you likely won't have time to aim and fire again if he doesn't stop.
 
2012-05-02 09:21:04 AM  
Had subby paid attention in the Zimmerman threads, SYG applies to use of lethal force, not use of warning shots. If you can fire a warning shot, you must believe you can get away, or are sure you would not, at that point, need to use deadly force to get away. Perception and how one's actions speak to one's perception is what the law is framed around.
 
2012-05-02 09:21:52 AM  

jbuist: Cythraul: I didn't know firing a warning shot was illegal. Maybe some sort of violation of firearms code where you're not allowed to fire a weapon within city limits? But 20 years, for that? This just doesn't make any sense.

The "warning shot" was in the general direction of the abusive husband and children. Not up into the ceiling which is what they initially told police.

If you shoot at children, lie about it, then hook back up with the abusive husband after the trial starts despite being told not to by the court... well, yeah, the jury ain't gonna be nice to you.

Make a little more sense now?


Yeah, not saying you're right, but TFA lacks a lot of information.
 
2012-05-02 09:22:42 AM  

Bontesla: Whether or not she returned to her abuser is not relevant. Returning doesn't mean she was in less danger or is under less fear.


Yeah, women (and men) return to abusive relationships all the time. Just being in an abusive relationship can fark with your head.

This doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether or not she should be arrested for shooting, though 20 years seems like a lot considering people frequently serve shorter sentences for manslaughter.
 
2012-05-02 09:23:03 AM  

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: Can we start another "I hate skittles, tea, and black people so let's shoot them all" thread? To late? Righteo man righteo.


NEVER FORGET!

brightcove01.brightcove.com
 
2012-05-02 09:23:10 AM  

Cythraul:
Never fire a warning shot? Okay, quick scenario:

Guy with a butcher knife is coming towards me, threatening my life. I have a gun in my hand, but I think maybe if I just scare the shiat out of him, taking his life will not be necessary. If I can't fire a warning shot in the air, or the ground, do I menacingly show him my weapon without pointing it at him, or something?


Personally and morally I agree with you but firing a warning shot drastically increases your chances of going to jail pretty much anywhere in the US. Firing a warning shot is not legally self defense because if you have time to fire a warning shot you did not consider lethal force necessary to defend yourself and firing a gun(even a warning shot) is very likely to be interpreted as lethal force in a court room. Brandishing is also a bad idea(unless you're in your own house in a State with a strong castle law).

/this is like day 1 stuff in CC class
 
2012-05-02 09:23:36 AM  

s2s2s2: Had subby paid attention in the Zimmerman threads, SYG applies to use of lethal force, not use of warning shots. If you can fire a warning shot, you must believe you can get away, or are sure you would not, at that point, need to use deadly force to get away. Perception and how one's actions speak to one's perception is what the law is framed around.


Retrial, new defense: I have terrible aim!
 
2012-05-02 09:24:08 AM  
Let that be a lesson to you. If you are going to use a gun, SHOOT THE S. O. B.

You fire a warning shot, you give them a chance to call the cops and spin their own story

Shoot him in the face, and then it is your word against the corpse. And the last I heard, corpses don't do much talking
 
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