Zavulon: remotecody: Oh yeah... Let us not forget about snow. Automatic cars getting out of a parking spot that is heavy wet snow and ice? Good luck. I can rock the car back and forth.

Total control of the car.

I suppose your ECU is a bank of dials and switches on the dash too, right?

And definitely doesn't have power-steering. Total control, right?

After about 10 years of driving an auto I'm now back with a stick.

Honestly? As much as I like driving a manual again - especially a nice, short-throw six speed - I kinda wish for a DSG system which would allow me to left-foot brake and keep the revs up with the right. Sure, I heel-toe it like a mofo but there's no way I can do it as quickly or smoothly as a DSG gearbox can.

/first world problems...

I don't even notice when I shift gears anymore. "I'm in fourth gear? When did that happen?" I'll say as I reach cruising velocity.

Getting rid of an inconvenience that I don't even notice is not worth the thousands of extra dollars a slushbox would have cost, and having an extra life skill and a means of cheap fun is a bonus.

Izunbacol: Dictatorial_Flair: I love my stick shift. It lets me actually get some acceleration out of my tiny-ass engine. I drove the automatic version of my car once and it was total weaksauce. It could really use a sixth gear for highway speeds though, it runs at like 3600 rpm if you're going 65 mph.

I've noticed that in recent years, automatics and manuals tend to be geared differently. I mentioned the Honda Fit above - the manual transmission has MUCH shorter gearing. If I remember correctly, at 70 mph, the manual is at about 3500 mph, and the automatic around 2500. I'm guessing it's because the manual drivers tend to prefer a sportier experience, but it raises questions about the whole "automatics are just as efficient as manuals these days" line of thought. Are there any modern cars with gear ratios fairly close comparing the manual to automatic?

In my Sonic, 6th gear does 2000RPM @ 70 mph. American cars are like that though, because of the direct connection between engine and trans in a manual you need more torque to pull a longer gear. American manufacturers seem to care more about torque than hp, which suits me. The turbo in my Sonic spools at less than 2000RPM, and it makes peak torque @ 1850RPM, and that's with a 1.4L. Its kinda like a diesel.

/Currently getting 38.9 mpg city
//45+ highway

ADHD Librarian: What is wrong with learning to drive on a manual? My daughter is getting ready to get her learner's permit and she will be learning on a manual (I'm not buying a new car for her to learn on).

Good for you. My 17 year old daughter's car is a 9 year old Honda Civic with manual transmission. Taught her and her older sister how to drive stick right off the bat. My older daughter told me that boys are really impressed that she can drive manual.

Manual transmissions save gas, save your brakes, and could help traffic flow better, if people learned how to use them.

I rarely use my brakes on the highway - I can drop from 6th to 5th and COAST (it's that place where your feet aren't on the gas or brake) - down to the speed of the car ahead. Thus, no gas, no brake.

The problem with autos is that everyone just dumps it into 'D', which is an overdrive gear. The car always wants to move forward and there is no engine braking, so it traffic it's gas/brake/gas/brake/gas/brake... Use the shifter and drop into '3' when in traffic. then you can use the engine to slow you down. you'll save gas, save your brakes and keep moving - instead of just coming to a complete stop.

Mini Cooper S 6-speed manual. love it!

Meh, if I'm not on a race track I don't care about having a manual transmission...

The automatic in my Dodge Ram does just fine by me for daily driving.

Winterssnowykiss: Sticks are obsolete. But so is sex for reproduction. Both are still the most fun way to do it. Technology cannot replace joy.

This pretty much sums it up.

moike: Meh, if I'm not on a race track I don't care about having a manual transmission...

The automatic in my Dodge Ram does just fine by me for daily driving.

Actually a lot of the drag racers prefer an automatic. A heavy-duty auto gear box and break-torquing and you'll beat most manuals...

EWreckedSean: moike: Meh, if I'm not on a race track I don't care about having a manual transmission...

The automatic in my Dodge Ram does just fine by me for daily driving.

Actually a lot of the drag racers prefer an automatic. A heavy-duty auto gear box and break-torquing and you'll beat most manuals...

The racing I do has turny bits... So I like my six speed sequential gearbox for that, and the full-throttle ignition cutout shifter, and the slipper clutch doesn't hurt either.

If I'm drag racing, I'd prefer to use a Lenco. Which is still manual.

This is why I had to give up my manual. Although I got the noob-friendly fake, no-clutch computer manual (Mazda 3.) Leave the auto on when you're parking commuting to work, and when you actually get some open road you can pick your gears w/o mistiming your clutch, b/c you haven't driven a manual since you were a kid.

Serious question: Why does there seem to be so many manual transmission cars in Washington D.C.?

Incontinental_Drift: ADHD Librarian: What is wrong with learning to drive on a manual? My daughter is getting ready to get her learner's permit and she will be learning on a manual (I'm not buying a new car for her to learn on).

Good for you. My 17 year old daughter's car is a 9 year old Honda Civic with manual transmission. Taught her and her older sister how to drive stick right off the bat. My older daughter told me that boys are really impressed that she can drive manual.

I definitely support teaching them on the manual trans. Forcing a kid to think about each move they make keeps their focus where it needs to be. I haven't heard of anyone smashing into a building due to wrong gear in a manual drive. I have noticed a lot younger drivers don't get the concept of dragging the gear. I pulled away from a riceburner once before I noticed he was trying to out run me. He was short shifting too fast to get through the gears and by the time I was up to speed, I had a 100 yards on him. It wasn't till he shot pass me that he was trying to race. I would say he was shifting at 1500rpms. The car chugged more than accelerated.

I miss the control of a stick. My van sucks for shifting. The worst part is when I need to really get going while already moving, the van takes a moment to down shift. Then once I lift off the gas once the problem is over the engine races a little bit while it readjust. I miss being able to drop a gear and punching it when I need it. I drove in city and delivered pizza with stick. If chevy venture came with a stick I would've got it. At the time having a van meant more than a manual drive.

im14u2c: Dictatorial_Flair: I love my stick shift. It lets me actually get some acceleration out of my tiny-ass engine. I drove the automatic version of my car once and it was total weaksauce.

Even on an automatic, you can manually downshift when needed.

There is usually a decent amount of lag time, but it's been a while since I really drove an automatic. Most of the ones I drove also would shift up at around 2800-3000 rpm or so, it was almost impossible to just leave it in a particular gear for a little longer to get better acceleration. Maybe I just don't know how to control an automatic transmission as well.

lack of warmth: I drove in city and delivered pizza with stick.

Cool. The aforementioned daughter delivered pizza for her college job. She drove my old Subaru Outback wagon. Worked well for delivering on the muddy roads during winter.

I know what you mean about the delayed downshifting with automatics. I really enjoy driving a stick and was happy to purchase my hybrid, even thought it was two years old when I bought it. 2005 was the last year Honda made the manual transmission Civic Hybrids. I went in to buy a new car, but I wasn't going to pass up the chance to drive a Hybrid/manual.

I'll probably be ready for a new car in a few years. I'm really hoping the new Subaru hybrids will come with a manual transmission option, but I'm probably being overly optimistic.

My wife never drove an automatic transmission until we got a minivan. The first time we pulled up to a stop sign and she tried to tramp on the clutch nearly pulled my eyeballs out.

I don't know anyone who can't drive a stick-shift, really.

If you use a truck enough to justify owning a truck you will see a huge fuel mileage boost by buying a manual instead of a slush box (like 5-6 mpg with the same engine), not to mention with the granny first you can move a shiat ton more weight with a small engine than you would with a auto.

V6 with manual has more 1st gear torque than the big small block 8 in half tons

Small block 8 with a manual has more 1st gear torque than a Big block or V10 or diesel with an auto on 3/4 and 1 tons.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Bongo Blue: Automatics are only good for eating an ice cream cone while driving.
Can't think of any other reason.

Road head.

In 30 years of driving, I've only owned 1 auto. I don't get the hate for manual transmissions in traffic. I drove a stick in LA for 20 years. I think it's actually easier because you can pick a gear and just use your right foot. With an auto, you're constantly on and off the gas and brakes.

/My lawn.. stop driving on it.

Honestly, I only think I want an auto for ice cream.
Never enters my head for that other thing.

My son is driving my 1995 Honda with 262,000 miles on the original clutch. Bought the car in 2005 when it had 133,000 miles. Best five grand I ever spent on a car.

Trocadero: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x435]
This is why I had to give up my manual. Although I got the noob-friendly fake, no-clutch computer manual (Mazda 3.) Leave the auto on when you're parking commuting to work, and when you actually get some open road you can pick your gears w/o mistiming your clutch, b/c you haven't driven a manual since you were a kid.

At that point, why not take a surface road or state route? Even if it has lights, it's moving...

twrfan: My son is driving my 1995 Honda with 262,000 miles on the original clutch. Bought the car in 2005 when it had 133,000 miles. Best five grand I ever spent on a car.

Funny, I got an automatic 1995 Honda Civic with about the same mileage that I bought used about 4 years ago as a beater to go to work with ... the body is rusting out bit by bit, there's a few more thins hat would need fixing, but it's also faced every winter's snow, salt and grime....

Bought it for 1K with the assumption that I wanted it to last me at least a year before I'd get something new (or newer)... never found a reason to... put a few thousands for repairs and maintenance (old parts breaking down, brakes, overall normal stuff), but it's still cheaper than getting something new. Love the little go-kart appeal it's got, plus it's a tiny car outside, but very large inside (don't even hit my Fedora in the roof).

nicoffeine: DarkVader: Given how good computer control and dual-clutch automatic gearboxes are, there's no reason for manual transmissions to be built anymore. The computer is better at shifting than you are. Really. And the dual-clutch boxes don't have the lossy torque converters, so gas mileage/power to wheels is actually better than a stick. You CAN'T shift as fast as the computer. You CAN'T shift as smoothly as the computer. And you are NOT more in control of the car. The limitations of the stick mean that the car is more in control of you.

/Yes, I can drive a stick just fine, thanks.
//And yes, a stick is in many ways better than a hydraulic slushbox.

This is sadly true. As much as we want to believe that manual transmissions keep us "closer to the road," there's no reason for them to keep being built. A computer-controlled automatic can be built to be more efficient than a human-controlled one. As long as it's able to differentiate street and freeway driving, a human being just isn't good enough. Formula 1 has known this for many years.



My mechanic buddy put it best when he said "car companies try to make everything idiot proof but they're just making more idiots."
Computer controlled is all well and good if you aren't the type to do your own repairs. Personally I would rather spend $200 on parts and a few hours on the weekend than $1000 at a repair shop to do the exact same thing.

SnarfVader: And bring back the straight six.

Dear God, yes! My '67 Chevy had a 292 with a Carter AFB and headers. Sweet engine if you know what to do with it. It's the same story with the 300 Ford and the Dodge Slant Six.

Oldiron_79: If you use a truck enough to justify owning a truck you will see a huge fuel mileage boost by buying a manual instead of a slush box (like 5-6 mpg with the same engine), not to mention with the granny first you can move a shiat ton more weight with a small engine than you would with a auto.

V6 with manual has more 1st gear torque than the big small block 8 in half tons

Small block 8 with a manual has more 1st gear torque than a Big block or V10 or diesel with an auto on 3/4 and 1 tons.

No V6 or V8 has the wonderful bottom end torque of an inline six. V-type engines are better on the highway, but they won't outwork a straight six with a granny gear when it comes to getting a load moving.

/stick it in granny and listen to Grandpa gripe

santadog: Right.. that's why all race cars are automatic.. because it's FASTER than... wait... race cars are not automatic??

I gather that you really do not know about race cars and how they switch gears and making an uneducated guess, so I'll give you a free pass on that one.

santadog: imfallen_angel: ohokyeah: Oh yeah, a human can tell when a hill is upcoming or they need to pass another vehicle and can promptly downshift as needed. An automatic transmission takes a second or two to realize you need more power after you've throttled the gas pedal before it will downshift. The computer might be better at shifting for initial acceleration issues, but it's not better at knowing when you need more power due to environmental changes.

hmmm... no.

If you know how to drive, you can control your transmission and the switching of gears by how you press your gas pedal... and if you need an extra speed burst, you just floor it, causing the system to downshift (go in overdrive), it's just as fast (or faster) as someone with a manual is, taking the time to clutch and switch the gear (even with clutch-less shifting)..

Right.. that's why all race cars are automatic.. because it's FASTER than... wait... race cars are not automatic??

Watch and learn from one of the best drivers, ever. (video, new window)

FlashHarry: it's a thing with bmw, i guess: when you're in gear and on an incline, the brake automatically holds your car for 3 seconds, allowing you to accelerate without rolling back. it's pretty amazing.

Nice! But now you just have to remember when you're *not* driving a BMW :-)

2007 Nissan Xterra 6-speed. Wouldn't have it any other way. I just have to teach the wife to drive it one of these days.

santadog: , I'll say I don't need your pass, but thank you anyhow.

Then all I can say is... well.. hmmm.. wow just wow... it just makes your comment even worse.

You really didn't help yourself with that reply.

santadog: what the cat dragged in: santadog: imfallen_angel: ohokyeah:

[.....]
Right.. that's why all race cars are automatic.. because it's FASTER than... wait... race cars are not automatic??

Watch and learn from one of the best drivers, ever. (video, new window)

I'm not sure what you are showing me. I see a guy driving stick.

Colin McRae's Ford rally car has a DSG transmission, but shifted with a knob vs. 'flappy paddles' as you might find on a DSG-equipped road car. When you see what he's doing with the steering wheel and how quickly he's doing it it's pretty obvious why the paddles would not work out so well.

santadog: imfallen_angel: santadog: , I'll say I don't need your pass, but thank you anyhow.

Then all I can say is... well.. hmmm.. wow just wow... it just makes your comment even worse.

You really didn't help yourself with that reply.

See, that's the thing. I don't need to "help mysel".

Sorry, but making a statement in the attempt to come off as smart and witty, making a show that you don't really know what you are talking about, then trying to justify your comment by doing another comment to prove how knowledgeable you are, but still miss the point that you still don't show that you have a clue to the error of your comment, only to be on the defensive yet again....

I'm trying to be nice and all, but the only thing you've done here is make yourself look pretty sad.

I might as well explain to you, to which I'm sure that you'll attempt to correct me anyways, so to make a show of your superiority, but regardless.

Race cars use something called a crashbox/clutchless tranny. (with the understanding that there's a difference in rally and racing cars' shiftless gearboxes)

They don't need to clutch when changing gears, hence, they only need to handle the gas pedal properly and switch the gears. This makes it very nice when racing (going forward as fast as possible), but is not really useable in street/city driving.

With normal vehicles, anyone that tries to shift without clutching (both in cars and motorcycles) only need to goof up enough times to kiss their transmission goodbye.

So to compare a street car to a racing one, is like comparing an electric knife to a chainsaw...or a plane to a jet.. they have the same principles, but don't work the same... a useless comparison.

AbbeySomeone: manuel

¡1¡¡Manuel Transmiccion es muy bueno!!1!