Non-evil Monkey: Of course once electric cars take over

Keep that crap on the golf course, Jimmy Neutron.

Did see a LOT of electrics at the auto show this year, though. It's gonna suck (even more) to be blind, when you can't hear 'em coming!

For now I'm enjoying the crap outta my 6 cyl. AWD w/ manual trans. Chip is NOT optimized for fuel economy. The planet is my biatch.

Late to the party but my second car was a 93 Dodge Daytona with manual, 3.0L Mitsubishi engine. It even got 28 miles to the gallon highway.

God, I miss that car, but I couldn't afford to keep up with repairs anymore since I didn't know how to do that stuff myself =/ - sold it to a local kid who fixed it up which at least gave it a new lease on life for a while...

I bet there are few young'uns around who know the phrase, "If you can't find 'em, grind 'em!"

'Nuff said.

fenianfark: DarkVader: Given how good computer control and dual-clutch automatic gearboxes are, there's no reason for manual transmissions to be built anymore. The computer is better at shifting than you are. Really. And the dual-clutch boxes don't have the lossy torque converters, so gas mileage/power to wheels is actually better than a stick. You CAN'T shift as fast as the computer.

As a friend of a friend who owned a two year old R32 with the exact configuration you speak of, I can tell you it flat out sucked.

It wasn't better at shifting. It was faster, but who cares? Again, quoting Clarkson, it's .8 seconds faster than you - and that's not enough to really give a damn. The genuine horror story was the Haldex lag, the computer's talented ability to pick exactly the wrong gear for the corner, or to upshift entirely at the wrong time. Launch control was a total writeoff.

The friend, the professional Ice Racer, hated it. It also speaks volumes, VOLUMES, that VW's next iteration of the R32, did away with flappy paddles and put in a proper gearshift. After VW's research, development, etc. their engineers confirmed that technology isn't an answer upon itself. Waiting for a chain of subsystems to argue to a conclusion proved to be hair-raising the times we needed to accelerate quickly - like when merging.

The old R32 was sold, the new one with the 'real' gearbox was purchased, and to quote the ice racer, what an improvement.

And that's exactly why cars that focus on a genuine driving experience will have a real manual box. Lotus has always known this, and it's why the Elise does not spoon-feed a computer-corrected experience to the driver.

392Zaphod: SpamBot:

I assume you've got a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. If that's actually the case it's no wonder you don't care to actually drive it. Driving involves corners too you know....
It's a 2011 Challenger SRT8
[i47.tinypic.com image 640x480]

You're not helping your case.

I learned to drive on a manual and prefer the manual. But the last two (larger family) cars I bought did not have a manual option. Give me a smaller car with a manual transmission and I would enjoy driving more.

My 9-yr old son can already accurately explain what's required to operate a manual transmission and my wife is capable of driving one. Despite that, she does prefer the "point and shoot" feel an automatic. I expect that as long as we have "his and hers", we'll have one of each in the driveway. If/once we downsize to one vehicle, then there will be a problem (someone is gonna get seriously butt-hurt at the dealer).

/Junior likes to say he prefers the automatic
// If I'm donating ANY resources to Junior's first car, then it WILL be a manual.
/// Oh yeah, save the manuals and stuff.

Kiss my 2 X chromosomes, subby.

Love, love, love manual transmission vehicles.

oh, and my truck is 5 speed.

:p

Dictatorial_Flair: I love my stick shift. It lets me actually get some acceleration out of my tiny-ass engine. I drove the automatic version of my car once and it was total weaksauce. It could really use a sixth gear for highway speeds though, it runs at like 3600 rpm if you're going 65 mph.

I've noticed that in recent years, automatics and manuals tend to be geared differently. I mentioned the Honda Fit above - the manual transmission has MUCH shorter gearing. If I remember correctly, at 70 mph, the manual is at about 3500 mph, and the automatic around 2500. I'm guessing it's because the manual drivers tend to prefer a sportier experience, but it raises questions about the whole "automatics are just as efficient as manuals these days" line of thought. Are there any modern cars with gear ratios fairly close comparing the manual to automatic?

cedarpark: But how the hell are you supposed to drink coffee while on the phone, put on mascara and steer AND SHIFT at the same time?
_
_____________________

1. Coffee - if you're a 'Murican, like me, then you use a cup holder. If You're-a-pee'n, then you don't drink or eat in the car anyway. That's what we're told over here, anyway.
2. Phone - use a farking cradle already, dammit.
3. Mascara - I get pretty before the show and so should you.

Znuh: Haldex

Thanks for dropping the H-word on a perfectly good discussion.

Khellendros: Once again, a personal preference turns into a discussion about quality, moral judgements, and how "I'm better than you". Welcome to Fark.

Agreed. Who knew it could cause so much rage and butthurt?

Oh, wait, again, welcome to Fark ^TM

I know I'm not the first here, but another hand up in the "women who drive manual" section. I won't drive an automatic unless it's some sort of emergency.

(Unfortunately most of the fire trucks on our department are automatic... *grumble*. Well, that counts as an emergency.)

FlashHarry: my new (manual) car has a hill-assist brake, which i find extremely useful. but i also feel like i'm cheating. anyone else experience this?

I'll admit, I cheat intentionally using the parking brake. So many people nowadays (who drive automatics) don't think of the possibility of a stick-shift in front of them or don't know why it would matter, so they pull right up behind you. I'm pretty good at not rolling, but if there's an asshat right on your bumper it's worth a precaution.

Long ago I had a Chevy C-60 truck. It had a four speed and a high-low stick. Put it in first-low to move, then first-high, then second-low, second-high. Sheesh! OTOH reverse low was so low I used the truck to pull a '70's era Lincoln off a beach after it was buried up to it's axles in sand.

Dictatorial_Flair: I love my stick shift. It lets me actually get some acceleration out of my tiny-ass engine. I drove the automatic version of my car once and it was total weaksauce.

Even on an automatic, you can manually downshift when needed.

sinanju: Smelly Pirate Hooker: fark manual transmission. I don't want to dick around with a stick while I'm driving. It's hard enough to keep from being killed on the highways in Dallas without worrying about shifting.

You know how we can tell you're a bad driver?

Not necessarily. If you stick to the tollways, traffic is relatively sane. There's stretches of US75 and I635, though, that seem to be entirely composed of Evel Knievel wannabes, distracted cell phone jockies, traffic heroes and oblivious old farts pulling into the fast lane at 10MPH below the speed limit. (Not to mention all the construction fun on I635.) I-35E and the Mixmaster are just a mess with lanes coming and going around hills and curves. Nobody's ever in the correct lane for long, because the correct lane keeps changing.

At least Woodall Rodgers is getting a little more sane now that its major construction work is done.

StrangeQ:

You're not helping your case.

I'm not trying to make a case. I like driving my AutoStick. Just pure Automatic sucks and you are at the relentless heel of being forced to shift when the car wants. The future of cars is AutoStick. I can force a Gear and grind it out to 6.5k RPMs if I want.

Just sayin, you can use BetaMax all you want, but when I want smooth, I'll go with BlueRay ;)

Shocktopus: FlashHarry: i had to order mine and have it shipped. there wasn't a single manual in the country.

I've had the same experience three times with two different makes. One existed in an awful color 1000 miles away, but I'd rather wait.

I had my 6 speed Accord shipped from Chicago to Sacramento when i bought it. It was the only one that i could find at the time. Manuals are great. Nobody ever asks to borrow my car or truck, better mileage, better control, and almost no need to replace brakes. My last accord went 213,000 miles with the brake pads changed only once. Still ran fine when i sold it.

cedarpark: But how the hell are you supposed to drink coffee while on the phone, put on mascara and steer AND SHIFT at the same time?

All while eating a doughnut and negotiating a New Jersey traffic circle. You practice! Also In my case I had to fend off the weird looks for putting mascara on an ugly guy!

I learned to drive with one of these:



Shift on the steering column.

/get off my lawn

GGracie: Fark you subby!

I'm a redheaded farkette with large breasts that can drive a stick shift in circles around your dumb sexist ass!

Honey, is that you?

Mrs. Dingers is a large-breasted redhead who prefers to drive standard. She even double clutches on the downshifts.

/for that and a for myriad of other reasons, she's one cool lady

First manual transmission was a 3 in the tree on a '67 Chevy pickup, steering wheel and gas tank model. No power steering or brakes, real clutch. I still drive a stick (Vue) but miss the feel of the direct clutch as opposed to hydraulic.

offmymeds: I learned to drive with one of these:

[image.rodandcustommagazine.com image 459x345]

Shift on the steering column.

/get off my lawn

I learned to drive a 5-speed in my Dad's Toyota, but was asked to drive an old pickup on a friend's farm and encountered a 3-speed on the column for the first and last time. It was pretty trivial to adjust to. About 7 years later, I drove a rental in Ireland and had to shift with my left hand. It was not only an easy change, I'm pretty sure it kept me on the correct side of the road in several cases.

ohokyeah: A car is stupider than a human in many situations.

Very very debatable.

So really... it comes down to personal beliefs, we could debate which is better and why, and I'm sure that both sides is able to stand strong.

The one thing I'll stick to is:

A bad driver in an automatic is bad, but when they use a stick, they are even worse.

Problem is, everyone believes that they are good drivers, and stick ones, believe themselves even better.

Reality is, there's not that big of a percentage that have driver's licenses that really are good drivers, regardless of what they drive, to the point that driving is more about a dodge and watch-out for the other car. I'm surprised at the fact that I don't see pile-ups more often as there's more and more traffic, more and more bad drivers out there.

_{/did stick for a few cars without problems but in city it got annoying
//motorcycle, so I'm still part of manual driving game}

Years ago the ratio of manual to automatic transmissions for Porsche 911s was 98%/2%. Don't know what it is today.

I'm guessing that that meant that 98% of 911 buyers were men. (Real men.)

the 20 or so stop signs I go through every day on my way to and from work in addition to general LA traffic dictate my choice in an automatic. at least it has a decent manual mode so I can have some sliver of control, better than nothing right?

Is it possible to get a 5-speed minivan???

Manual transmissions, FTW...

sinanju: offmymeds: I learned to drive with one of these:

[image.rodandcustommagazine.com image 459x345]

Shift on the steering column.

/get off my lawn

I learned to drive a 5-speed in my Dad's Toyota, but was asked to drive an old pickup on a friend's farm and encountered a 3-speed on the column for the first and last time. It was pretty trivial to adjust to. About 7 years later, I drove a rental in Ireland and had to shift with my left hand. It was not only an easy change, I'm pretty sure it kept me on the correct side of the road in several cases.

I remember my folks had one of the old Studebaker 'fluid drive' s. It was a push-button type transmission on the dash. That was back in the late '50's.

Hella Fark: the 20 or so stop signs I go through every day on my way to and from work in addition to general LA traffic dictate my choice in an automatic. at least it has a decent manual mode so I can have some sliver of control, better than nothing right?

Being stuck in LA freeway traffic is the cure for wanting to drive a stick. I learned to drive on a stick, my last car was a stick (Volvo S60), but one rainy day in 2005 on the 10 East made me never want to drive a stick again.

weave: I love going to UK. Every rental I've got there was a manual -- I love shifting with the left hand. Gotta love it! (thankfully the clutch is still the left foot)

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 500x375]

My last rental. Good fun. Diesel too!

Funny enough, first time we went to the UK I got... a Ford Focus. It was indeed manual, and while not diesel I was surprised to find I got a good 45 mpg out of that thing. The only trouble I had was when I was driving to Exmoor. There was a warning of the 'steepest incline in England' on the directions, but what it didn't warn was that it was around a blind corner with no warning. Went around the corner in 3rd or 4th gear... and suddenly 85-degree hill! Didn't even have time to downshift before I was going backwards in heavy traffic. We somehow managed NOT to hit the cars, the wall, or fall off the hill... but boy did I feel like a tool XD

/only owned one automatic car since learning to drive

AbbeySomeone: I've driven both. I live in Seattle and we got us some major hills. Automatic is easier.

Suck it up. I live in Seattle too and have driven manual transmissions since I learned to drive.

hagar129: Is it possible to get a 5-speed minivan???

Mazda 5. Seats 6, has sliding rear doors. Six speed manual optional on base model. Base model comes with plenty of features.

Tenatra: Stick shift drivers are almost my most hated thing on the road

Usual experience -

At a red light waiting for it to change
Green light
Accelerate
oh the guy in front of me accelerates extremely slow so I ride my brake/coast. He shifts
we start getting up to a decent speed (10-15 mph under the farking speed limit) and he shifts. I brake
A little way down the road he shifts and I have to ride my brakes again
We speed up, he shifts, I brake...


/I have had the privilege of driving stick once.
//Friend bought an old 4Runner from the city auction but didn't have his license
///I had to drive the damn thing across the city in rush hour traffic (woohoo somehow managed not to stall it)

People that brake coming off a green light are idiots
standing waves at a green light drive me crazy
what the fark?

StrangeQ: 392Zaphod: SpamBot:

I assume you've got a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. If that's actually the case it's no wonder you don't care to actually drive it. Driving involves corners too you know....
It's a 2011 Challenger SRT8
[i47.tinypic.com image 640x480]

You're not helping your case.

Guess how I can tell you've never been behind the wheel of of either of those.

DarthBart: My parents wouldn't let me out on the road until I could drive a stick. I plan to do the same with my kid in a few years.

I thought driving a five speed was fun until I got to drive bigger things.

Amen. I learned to drive a stick on trucks. I got a job as a mechanics helper at a truck maintenance shop at 16. I'd service trucks and after a few months the other mechanics got tired of driving trucks into the shop for me to work on so they taught me how to drive one. 10 speed Internationals. I could get them up to about 5th gear in the yard (which means about 15 mph mbe).

Oh, and had to double-clutch the biatches too!

/never did learn to back one up. Luckily there were doors on each side of the shop, drive in and then out.

SoxSweepAgain

I hadn't owned an automatic until my current car, and I only bought an automatic because I was married to a non-stick woman when I bought this one.


*juvenile snicker*

I've been driving a manual for almost 6 years now (and probably won't go back to an auto) but I still occasionally have to drive one of our company pool cars, which are of course auto. One crappy thing about autos is that the brake pedal is wider than on a manual, and your muscle memory dicates that you jam your left foot down after reaching a certain speed. If you should happen to hit the brake pedal in that motion, it won't be fun.
/Luckily there was no-one behind me.

The real answer is to own more than one car. I have two Hoopties that I can't imagine having a straight drive in them. I also have an antique car that would be SO wrong with an automatic since it predates the invention of the automatic. I have had several cars that rate as racers, autos would be WRONG. The fifteen passenger van would be WRONG with a stick.
The transmission should match the application(s).
Anyone besides me ever own a car with a four speed stick on the column? 1964 Fiat 1100D zippity doo dah.
BTW, my dad now has two cars with CVTs. Should we start another thread?

Nothing beats a manual in the snow and on ice. Way more control than an automatic. I would never willingly own an automatic.

akchick1971: Nothing beats a manual in the snow and on ice. Way more control than an automatic. I would never willingly own an automatic.

My '91 Jeep Cherokee Limited w/4WD is automatic and does great on snow, ice and mud.

SnarfVader: The_Sponge: kmmontandon: The_Sponge: IMHO, Wranglers should only be manufactured with manual transmissions.

And never sold to college girls, who try to drive them like sports cars.


And anyone who puts those ultra flashy rims on them will be shot on sight.

And bring back the straight six.

And give us a diesel already FFS!

When I got a "windfall" from my company IPO in 2007 I figured I'd go out and buy a hybrid. I ended up buying a 2 year old 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid because it's the only one with a manual transmission. All the new ones have CVT.

And a big FARK YOU to subby. I taught both my girls to drive manual (on my car, even!) and they both own manual transmission cars.

I love manual transmissions. When you're "driving" an automatic, it's like you're just supervising the car or something. When you're driving a stick shift, it actually feels like you're driving, that you're in control of the car.

Plus, manual transmissions are just more fun.

\female driver
\\perfect driving record

FlashHarry: my new (manual) car has a hill-assist brake, which i find extremely useful. but i also feel like i'm cheating. anyone else experience this?

If the hill is really steep I'll use my parking break with the lock disengaged to help me out. Is this what you're referring to? I don't know that I've come across anything named "hill-assist". Off to google...