TwistedFark: ... how superior they are to automatics regardless of your driving conditions.

They are superior. Quicker off the line, quicker to stop, you can control the gearing better on hills, engine breaking, actually being forced to drive instead of a litany of other stupid things people take advantage of when in automatics. Better gas mileage.

List keeps going, but don't let that stop you from making an excuse of a statement to justify not being a man.

I like this debate.

I drive an '06 Ford Fusion SE (I4 engine) that's a manual tranny. I love that car. Every time I get into my wife's 2010 Sante Fe I instinctively go for the clutch with my foot.

CSB:
I rented a '07 Fusion SEL once (V6) that had an automatic transmission. Totally different driving experience and not a pleasant one.

/I'll stick to the stick, thankyouverymuch

I love my MT car and when its wheels finally fall off I'll get another. Maybe it's an "I like the smell of my own farts" thing, but I don't care. I can't imagine that the AT version of my car would be as fun to drive. I enjoy clutching and shifting as well as being able to engine brake. Even bumper to bumper traffic doesn't bother me.

My father in law gave my wife a trial by fire to learn how to drive manual. Loaded up one of the dump trucks he had from his contracting business, parked it on a hill and told her to have at it...

AbbeySomeone: ericbo84: I learned how to drive in a 5 speed PT Cruiser and my roommate's 5 speed Cobalt. I bought an 04 Mazda3 hatch with a 5 speed for my first car. People are like "What's the big deal about stick?" and the only answer "It's WAY more fun!". They don't get it... would rather drive automatic so they can eat/text/put on makeup/smoke/whatever while driving. Meanwhile I can get close to 40mpg highway, OR have a blast on back country roads. I can see myself getting an auto when I'm in my 60's possibly.

Savvy drivers can smoke and drink coffee while operating a manual/stick vehicle. I've done it.
I learned to drive on an old Volvo 164 with an unforgiving clutch. People should know how to operate both types of vehicles.

Sure they can smoke and drink, but we're fraking Americans. Can we literally inhale those things while driving a stick? I think not, and that's the problem.

/Need mah burgers dammnit
//nomnomnom

Expert systems, no matter how thought out, no matter how 'refined', will never be able to properly cope with open environments.

You cannot put all the occurrences that can (and will) happen into its dictionary. Traction Control, floppy paddle shifting and so on is nice for those who do not know what they're doing, and helps those who've dropped $45k look like they have skill on a track. To quote Clarkson, the car appears competent, but in reality you're being spoon-fed an experience.

One of my friends bought an R32, two years ago. Professional ice racer, one of the best drivers I've ever been with. Couldn't talk enough about the floppy paddles, the predictive traction control, so on. Six months later, he hated it. Launch control almost got him killed twice due to lag, and although the gearchanges were gunshot-fast, the system was constantly overthinking itself.

In short, this friend who was all about the technology and did nothing but scream its praise did one of the quickest about-faces I've ever seen. When the new R32 came out in the states with a real manual gearbox, the old R32 was sold.

And it's so much better. No fighting with a computer. No jumping on the gas and feeling all the subsystems go uh ahm uh er, guess you sure you want to go fast? well, hold on let's uh ah ahem AAAAAAHHHWHOOOOSH.

The driver should have the final say over what's happening with the car. You're the one driving, not it.

Learn the instrument. If the instrument's playing you, you're never going to have fun.

santadog: It's like not knowing how to swim.
Not that hard to learn, and in the right situation it could save your life.

I can see how knowing how to swim could, not clear about the stick, tho.

I prefer sticks, always have, it's the feeling of control, especially on ice & snow.

Last one I had was a Honda Prelude in '94, I think it was.

CV trannys are the best trannys. No worrying about what gear you're in. No auto tranny downshifting or upshifting at bad times. You just turn the throttle or sted on the gas and go

God Is My Co-Pirate: fark right off with that sexist shiat, subby. I learned to drive a manual while pregnant.

FlashHarry: my wife drives a manual acura rsx, and she loves it, btw.

Evenbiggerknickers: I never fell out of love with manual...every car I have ever owned was a stick. And I'm a girl

GGracie: Fark you subby!

I'm a redheaded farkette with large breasts that can drive a stick shift in circles around your dumb sexist ass!

ktybear: Not into automatics at all, and yes I'm female. If I wanted to steer a car I'd play with Go-Carts!

etc.... (I'm sure I could quote you all, but I'll stop there.)

Came here to ring in a vote for my wife's stick shift. I believe every car she's owned since before I met her has been a stick-shift, and at least one of them was a hand-me-down from her mother. My mom, given the choice, will take a stick shift every time. Me? I can drive a stick, but I default to automatics. Ditto with my dad.

The only way subby's headline makes sense to me is if subby meant the number would be higher if they asked women only.

I'm so old, I had to take my driver's education classes using a car with manual transmission back in the 80's.

And I had to show the cop/instructor that I could change a tire before I passed. I doubt that happens anymore.

First car was a manual, sucked ass constantly shifting in traffic. Never again. Second car was an automatic, was nice not having to shift, but sometimes the computer couldn't decide when to shift. Now I have a CVT. Will never buy anything but. Perfect smooth acceleration, always the right "gear," just much more enjoyable.

Financed a brand new 2011 Camaro last May. Was sooooo tempted to get the 6-speed manual, but then I remembered I live in NYC. I don't commute with her, did two road trips to Vermont and D.C, just about to break 6k miles.

Also, haven't driven manual in over a decade - learned on my Uncle's T-bird when I was 15. Was afraid to kill the new car's clutch, although I hear driving stick is like riding a bike.

we'refromthesamestory: //Maybe I'll just go back to TFD. People there can take a joke.

I bought my wife a 2001 New Beetle with a manual trans. She had not driven a stick before. I put her in the car, told her how it works, and made her drive home hills and all.

Lucky for her that car has the easiest manual transmission to drive I've even driven. She drove that car for 5 years.

For me sports cars need to be manuals. Economy cars and sedans need to be automatics. Jeeps need to be stick for trail driving but automatic for serious off roading. (Mud, hills and rock climbing)

ecmoRandomNumbers: If you can't drive a manual transmission, you don't know how to drive, IMO.

Once upon a time, it was required to get a driver's license. I had to learn on one before I was allowed to drive an automatic. Dad's rules.

I would want a manual for a sports car, but nothing else.

AbbeySomeone: remotecody: Driving automatic is like pouring hollandaise sauce or gravy out of a can.

Bullsh*t! I make my own sauces from scratch and drive an automatic. That is a stupid comparison.

Similes -- how do they work?

I've driven manual since 1983.

But they are getting hard to find.

Rasraf Mekerk: difrancopsycho: just bought a '12 volkswagen gti, manual
:oD


How do you like it? I'm getting one in the next couple of weeks. Can't wait!

I have an '07 GTI stick, had it for years. To describe it in a word: AWESOME! The car will want to go and go and go!! As the right foot goes down, the smile will get bigger and bigger. :-D

But I would highly suggest getting the APR stage 1 chip (sooooo much more power but wait until it goes on sale which happens ever few months), upgrading the diverter valve to a stronger-than-stock one (mine blew out pre-chip at about 40k miles, under warranty free replacement, but I don't want it to ever happen again), and get a catch can installed. With the direct fuel injection bypassing the valves, the tops of the valves can build up lots of gunk that will need to be manually cleaned out every 50k to 60k miles. The catch can will likely extend that cleaning to 100k to 120k miles or so.

Either way, stock or chipped, you will have LOTS of fun! ^_^

Phade.

WhippingBoy: I can drive a stick with a beer in one hand, and a McDonald's Big Mac in the other. It's not that hard.

Driving tests should include driving a manual while rolling a doob.

remotecody: Oh yeah... Let us not forget about snow. Automatic cars getting out of a parking spot that is heavy wet snow and ice? Good luck. I can rock the car back and forth.

Total control of the car.

I suppose your ECU is a bank of dials and switches on the dash too, right?

I'm male and I can barely drive a manual I had no one to teach me so my ability with a manual is strictly from understanding how transmissions work and applying that logic to operating one. I'm not very good.

JackieRabbit: ecmoRandomNumbers: If you can't drive a manual transmission, you don't know how to drive, IMO.

Once upon a time, it was required to get a driver's license. I had to learn on one before I was allowed to drive an automatic. Dad's rules.

I would want a manual for a sports car, but nothing else.

You know, I had forgotten about that. Here in NC, you had to take your driving test on a manual when I was learning to drive, but by the time both kids learned to drive, you could take your test on whatever you had. Since they had both learned to drive on the manual Toyota I bought them, I felt like they had it covered and was surprised when the guy at the DMV said it was no longer necessary.

But, you know, you guys getting all macho about your manual skills - you need to stop using that electric starter. Those are for pussies. Go back to the days of Real Men (tm) and crank that biatch.

Devolving_Spud: The VW salesman really, really wanted to know why I wanted a manual. Like it was the only one he'd ever sold. I also ride a motorcycle, and I like to know exactly what gear I'm in. I also get better highway mileage, and I got to dick around and get a good price on the car when I bought it because manuals are a tough sell in my area, apparently.

Easy answer: he didn't have one in stock and wanted to make a sale by pushing the automatic. The Honda guy I talked to did they same thing before I bought my stick GTI. I luvz my GTI. ^_^

I might as well chime in.

I had an old 2-speed auto 60's Tempest (with Manual brakes!), so I got myself a 5 speed Impreza Outback Sport at 18, and DID take it off road. I taught myself (not hard to do) and taught my wife to drive standard (and partly how to drive, the Captain's Girl at the time didn't have her license).

When she wrecked it, I talked her into a TDI (diesel) Jetta, and now she loves standards. She commutes in Pittsburgh, land of hills and bridges, and has almost 200,000 on the original clutch, so hills don't always kill clutches (and diesels run forever). It's actually a wonderful car for commuting and for long trips, and if you're careful you can go from a stop to about 30 in 5th without touching the accelerator.

Myself, I got an old AMC Eagle (They're nearly all automatic...) and drove it for a while, then picked up a 3 speed with overdrive, column shift (Three on the tree!) AMC Pacer. No, they're not slow and awkward, mine will hit triple digits and it's not a V8. I commute in it, but the Mrs. and I carpool now so I only drive it about twice a week to work and I have to say the heavier clutch in it is much better on my knee then the Jetta clutch in traffic, but the manual brakes can get annoying when traffic stops moving for too long and your leg gets tired.

I have to say, after driving two cars with manual brakes that I do prefer them. There is more feedback and road feel, and I've never had a problem locking them up in a panic.

All that said, if I had to do something stupid like drive every day in a city with (or without) a perfectly good mass transit system and an average commute speed of less then 20 mph on a twelve lane highway I'd have a generic sedan with an automatic new enough to be reliable but old enough not to care about. I know that's what a lot of people out there do, and all they do with their cars.

SpamBot:

I assume you've got a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. If that's actually the case it's no wonder you don't care to actually drive it. Driving involves corners too you know....

It's a 2011 Challenger SRT8

I drive a manual.

My wife has a VW Jetta with the auto DSG. I will say, the new VW automatic is nice in that you touch the break and the car downshifts for you and stays in gear. This is nice going downhill, around curves. Good comprise for the wife and her fancy shoes, lack of comprehending manual, etc.

I can't imagine be proud of something as mundane as knowing how to drive a manual transmission.

As a woman I am not afraid to admit to being the worst driver ever. Think of all the snarky remarks aimed at women, the elderly, and oriental drivers... that 's me. Here I come, just get out of the way, it's safer.

Anyway...

driving a manual makes me a much better, and safer driver. Mostly because I have to pay more attention to driving instead of other distractions.

Yes, you can imfallen_angel: ohokyeah: Oh yeah, a human can tell when a hill is upcoming or they need to pass another vehicle and can promptly downshift as needed. An automatic transmission takes a second or two to realize you need more power after you've throttled the gas pedal before it will downshift. The computer might be better at shifting for initial acceleration issues, but it's not better at knowing when you need more power due to environmental changes.

hmmm... no.

If you know how to drive, you can control your transmission and the switching of gears by how you press your gas pedal... and if you need an extra speed burst, you just floor it, causing the system to downshift (go in overdrive), it's just as fast (or faster) as someone with a manual is, taking the time to clutch and switch the gear (even with clutch-less shifting)..

I specifically mentioned the throttling which is the same thing as "flooring it." I'm pretty sure it's still slower to throttle and wait for automatic downshift than just downshifting is in a manual. If you're an automatic only driver, you probably would think an automatic would be faster to downshift than you would be. I've owned seven cars so far, four of them were manual transmission vehicles so I think I can make a fairly informed comparison between the two transmission types and their ability to downshift when needed. Also overdrive is the highest gear. It will drop out of overdrive, not go in to it to downshift.

A human can proactively downshift before a hill or passing another car, a car with an automatic transmission "reactively" downshifts. It is inherently less efficient simply because it's a reaction as opposed to planning for the change in need. It's also less efficient for other reasons such as higher RPM is required to maintain the downshift. Some cars seem to need throttling for longer periods of time before they'll downshift. A car is stupider than a human in many situations. It will do stupid things like switch back and forth between two gears on a mountain pass even if it's been manually downshifted. A manual transmission is in the gear you put it in. An automatic isn't smart enough to innately downshift when coming down the other side of that pass to reduce brake wear and fade. Not all drivers seem to know that they should be doing this, but an automatic transmission isn't smart enough to know it either. I've seen countless drivers riding their brakes when going down mountain passes.

Automatic transmissions have made great strides in the fuel economy gap in the last five or so years, but you still will have more control in a manual transmission. They're still around $1,000 more expensive than a manual initially which really eats up that fuel economy cost savings for those cars that have automatics that are more fuel efficient, and automatics are generally more costly when repairs are needed. Knowing how to drive a manual also makes you better prepared to travel internationally since any car you rent in another country is almost guaranteed to be a manual transmission.

indarwinsshadow: 5 speed '97 Saturn SL1, 186,000 km and still runs like a top. Costs me $34 to fill from empty, and averages 487 km per tank. Yes, I just spent $1200, but I replaced the rear brake lines, the front lower ball joint, had an alignment and put new tires on the front for that price. And that's the most I've ever spent on this car. It has some minor perforations at the floor pan in the back which I fixed, but the car looks and runs like it's new otherwise. The paint is in excellent shape and the body will long out last the car. I love my Saturn.

I'm envious. I had a 97 SC2 and it seemed like I was dropping another thousand every couple of months. My mechanic said to me, "it's not a sports car and you can't shift it like one." He was right. Over the course of a year I put in a new clutch and a used (but better) transmission, and then the farking cable went, which was almost as much as the clutch. I put a small fortune into brakes, shocks, "minor" engine repairs, etc.

What really did the car in was living in Pittsburgh. In the city it's constant downshifting and lane switching.

I don't think I want to own an auto again, but man people here are sensitive. I can't understand the whole "when you take it from my cold, dead hand" nonsense. I agree that manuals allow more control and are more fun to drive. A heavy clutch isn't fun in stop-and-go traffic, but other than that I don't see why someone would hate a manual. As automatics have gotten better, performance and mileage has improved, so it's now down to (mostly) personal preference.

I do have a running theory that academics are more likely to own manual transmissions because we are all control freaks. Still, why would anyone care what transmission someone else prefers? I like my coffee black, but I'm not going to tell people that have lattes that they aren't drinking coffee. My mother loves Starbucks, I don't, it doesn't bother me.

Of course once electric cars take over (we are still a couple generations of the technology away from it happening, but make no mistake, it will happen), manual transmission goes out the window forever.

Due to the nature of electric engines, there is no real gearing system to speak of. As long as the engine has power to it, it's generating 100% torque whether you are going 0 mph or 150 mph. If you want to go in reverse (unless I'm mistaken) the engine just spins backwards. Something that's extremely impracticable in an internal combustion engine, but very simple in an electric engine.



As for me personally I'm an automatic driver. I'm not opposed to driving manual, but I have yet to be in a situation where I had to learn it. I know there are certain benefits to using a manual transmission, but for me those simply aren't worth losing the significantly easier driving on an automatic.

I have a 1938 La Salle with three on the tree. It's the first American car with a column shifter. I love showing off that I know how to drive the thing. None of my friends have ever asked to drive the beast.
As this is the first ever column shifter you should see the instructions for adjusting it when it gets goofy.

orezona: I like this debate.

I drive an '06 Ford Fusion SE (I4 engine) that's a manual tranny. I love that car. Every time I get into my wife's 2010 Sante Fe I instinctively go for the clutch with my foot.

CSB:
I rented a '07 Fusion SEL once (V6) that had an automatic transmission. Totally different driving experience and not a pleasant one.

/I'll stick to the stick, thankyouverymuch

'11 Fusion automatic rental a few months back. Terrible automatic, in every way. (shudder)... more on that in a moment.

100 Watt Walrus: Pray 4 Mojo: I understand the "cool-ness" of being able to... and driving a stick. Ride a motorcycle... couldn't imagine it being an automatic... ewwww....

But... the question I have is... for a daily driver (especially if you're unlucky enough to commute on a crowded highway) why the FARK would you WANT/PREFER a stick?

People who live in towns with a lot of steep hills (hello, Seattle and SF!) get a pass. People with headache-inducing stop-and-go freeway commutes get a pass.

/actually, I don't have anything against people who prefer auto - I just don't understand them

I lived in Monterey, CA for about 6 years, and had a stick most of the time I lived there (I've only owned an automatic once, a mistake I won't make again.) Hills, traffic, and I couldn't wait to get rid of the automatic... Hills are only a concern when you are first learning... if you can't control the rollback, go back to the PRND Taurus!

I was in Washington for about a month on business, and had a Ford Fusion rental car while I was there. It was, of course, an automatic with a 4-banger. Despite being a well appointed SEL model, it did not have any type of manual override of the gear selection... just a "hill mode" button that didn't seem to do much, and a Low selection below Drive on the shifter.

The worst parts of it:
- Driving in stop and go traffic with the idling engine straining against me. I'd put enough pressure on the brake to keep the car from rolling, but the engine was actively trying to push me into the car ahead of me.
- If I shifted to Neutral at a stop, there was a delay between shifting into Drive and having it actually go. Well, two delays - the delay between shifting to D and having forward motion available, and the delay waiting for the thing to start moving once I pushed the throttle pedal.
- With no paddles or manual selection ability, downshifting to pass was fear inducing - I could literally count "one-one-thousand-two-one-thousand-three-one-thou" between flooring the pedal and having any semblance of acceleration.
- It was in the winter, and the battery seemed a bit questionable in the morning. To the best of my knowledge, there's no way to bump-start a slushomatic.
- When entering an urban freeway, I would find myself accelerating while turning. I was never certain when the downshift and surge of extra power would actually come (I'm pretty sure when I pushed the throttle, a tiny captain in the engine sent rang a bell for more "go" from the engine room.)

So, given the choice, even in traffic and hills, I'll take a manual. Part of it is that I enjoy driving, and the experience seems so muted and numb in an automatic. A bigger part of it is that I've almost always had them, and all of my muscle memory and quick reactions that keep me out of traffic tragedies are tuned to operating a wheel, a lever, and three pedals. It takes a conscious effort for me to adapt to an automatic, and I find it distracting, particularly when in an unfamiliar place.

I will admit that automatics have gotten better in recent years. My girlfriend has a Nissan with a CVT, and the overall experience is better than a conventional automatic. Also, some of the Manu-matics have gotten better - the one in the Honda Fit, of all things, is surprisingly responsive.

car - 1988 Chevy S10 - 5 speed
2nd - 1991 Buick Regal - Auto - decent car but I missed shifting
3rd - 1999 Plymoth Breeze - 5 speed
4th (current) - 2006 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V - 6 speed

Manual is just much more fun to drive, I especially love my 6 speed.

I knew it was meant to be when I found out my wife drove a 5-speed and that her car before that was also a stick.

Both of our cars are manuals and we're currently looking at getting a larger car. But it has to be a stick.

DarkVader: Given how good computer control and dual-clutch automatic gearboxes are, there's no reason for manual transmissions to be built anymore. The computer is better at shifting than you are. Really. And the dual-clutch boxes don't have the lossy torque converters, so gas mileage/power to wheels is actually better than a stick. You CAN'T shift as fast as the computer.

In the future a lot of those cars with dual-clutch automatics are going to get scrapped because the transmission failures will be too costly to fix. On top of that, moving the gear selector or flapping a paddle to shift will never feel the same as using a clutch and downshifting 2 gears to make a pass.

/Only mods to my Subaru are a short shifter and shifter bushings

fark manual transmission. I don't want to dick around with a stick while I'm driving. It's hard enough to keep from being killed on the highways in Dallas without worrying about shifting.

I love my stick shift. It lets me actually get some acceleration out of my tiny-ass engine. I drove the automatic version of my car once and it was total weaksauce. It could really use a sixth gear for highway speeds though, it runs at like 3600 rpm if you're going 65 mph.

Smelly Pirate Hooker: fark manual transmission. I don't want to dick around with a stick while I'm driving. It's hard enough to keep from being killed on the highways in Dallas without worrying about shifting.

You know how we can tell you're a bad driver?

probesport


karlandtanya: Autos require less attention while driving.

And that is one of the major downfalls of Automatics.

A terribly good point... people are getting too aclimated to driving simply being 'one of the things' they do in their car. Driving a car should not be a passive act. Treating it as such results in accidents and deaths. Stop trying to multitask and focus on controlling your vehicle...

Once again, a personal preference turns into a discussion about quality, moral judgements, and how "I'm better than you". Welcome to Fark.