lohphat: Sid_6.7: lohphat: ArcadianRefugee: Nidabriz: Pfft what a buncha sexist shiat. :P I learned how to drive on a manual & all 3 cars I've owned have been sticks. Never owned an automatic til hubby bought his car ;) i'm still shocked at all of the people who don't know how to drive a stick.

Given that, as of Nov '10, "6.7% Of Vehicles Sold in U.S. Have Manual Transmissions" - down from 7.7% in 2007 and 22.4% in 1985 - I am not sure why you should at all be surprised. That's like being surprised that "No one really speaks Latin any more".

And conversely, disengaged, inattentive driving has skyrocketed int the same time period.

The entire "manual better" argument is like an absurd No True Scotsman fallacy, with the "True Scotsman" making up a tiny minority of the whole.

Are you against ABS, because no one "really knows how to use brakes unless they know how to use non-ABS"? What about airbags? "No one really knows how to survive a crash unless they don't use those wimpy airbags!"

We could keep stripping tech off of cars, until we're left with the crap they sold way back when. Would that you make you all happy? Have fun getting 8 MPG and dying if you hit a wooden fence at 25 MPH that you couldn't avoid because your brakes locked up.

Well Mr. Strawman, since you feel that because it's newer it's better, you subsist on HFCS and hydrogenated oils. Because they must be better than the old solutions.

The reason automatic transmissions were invented was for low skilled drivers. Otherwise they add weight, result in lower mileage, are more expensive to repair/replace, and insert another feedback barrier to gauge the performance of the vehicle. So no, I do not consider it a technical improvement but a boondoggle to attract underskilled customers.

Uh no.

Look, if you want to pretend that you're better, more efficient and smoother at shifting the gears in your car manually than a modern day computer, then that's fine.

Also, I have a great investment for you in gold coins and hummel plates. Please message me.

remotecody: People are severely overusing the word hipster. It has gotten so broad that it basically is reduced to meaning young people without business casual attire.

Much like pop music in the 1980s, hipsterism is still in that "experimental stage" where big business hasn't yet figured out a reliable formula. My latest guess is that applying the high-school alternative-conformist mentality to mass consumerism would be a good bet.

The driving habits of hundreds of millions of women in Europe (for one) apparently not contemplated by trollmitter when "thinking" about this.

just bought a '12 volkswagen gti, manual
:oD

and my ol' '88 saab is manual too

/never owned an automatic
//has vagina

KrispyKritter: as for many Jeeps i think it doesn't matter anymore. they've become pussified cushiony comfort-laden vehicles for fat ass soccer moms. from what i've read some 98% of 4WD vehicles in America are never taken off road. if you live in an area where there is real winter weather you've seen plenty of Jeeps spun out, buried in snow drifts and smashed up because the owners don't have enough common sense to drive slowly and with care.

I fully agree. Many of those owners are the idiots who put "It's a Jeep thing you wouldn't understand" on their Wrangler that has pristine paint and chrome wheels. I'm sorry but when my Liberty has been off road more times than your Wrangler you should take the damn sign down and hang your head in shame. I put their intelligence right about the level of those who drive around in a rusted out Ford with a sticker of Calvin peeing on "Imports".

Sticks are obsolete. But so is sex for reproduction. Both are still the most fun way to do it. Technology cannot replace joy.

/09' Liberty has horrible ground clearance, can barely tow a trailer, and didn't come in stick.
//Never owning another Jeep again.

Driving automatic is like pouring hollandaise sauce or gravy out of a can.

Got an Injun car when I turned 11. Plenty of roads and no cops. My dad told me I could keep it but ai had to teach all 3 of my sisters to drive in trade. 1956 VW with the smallest rear window you ever saw. Well, all three of those girls now know how to drive a stick. Not only that, but they can start it on glare ice, drive it into a controlled skid, and stop it safely, too.
Traded the car for 25 dhickens when I turned 18. I've driven sticks a plenty since then. Like my current LAV now, though.

I learned on a manual and have been driving a manual for the past 5 years or so. I can't wait to get back to an automatic. It's nice to have a free hand to sip on a beverage while you're stuck in traffic. It's also nice not to have to remember what gear you're in in an emergency just in case you have to downshift to get the fark out of some idiot's way. I always get flustered and almost get myself killed.

Men drivers are not better than women drivers. Men drivers speed more. That's not good driving despite what the Top Gear [middle-aged] boys will lead you to believe.

hipsterism is still in that "experimental stage" where big business hasn't yet figured out a reliable formula.

Or we're already post hipster, the gold has been mined, and the laggards can't even see it.

Pomplamoose.

A lot of the shiat people are just catching onto and making fun of is already 15 to 20 years old. Some of this culture that gets defined as hipster is from the way back days of punk.

When I got my license if you took the road test with an automatic they put a code on your license so you could only drive automatics. Folks would snicker at you.

392Zaphod: Automatic transmissions have surpassed the Manual Transmission as far as performance and maintenance... there is a reason there is progress. I can drive manual, doesn't mean I choose to. My current car is a 470 horsepower beast with an AutoStick. I can shift it into gears manually if I wanted to, but guess what? In stop and go traffic, it's extremely annoying... I'd rather feel up my wife while I drive than sit there and shift between gears at every 10 feet. You get smoother and faster shifts into gear with the AutoStick... don't get me wrong, I completely understand that manual "could" be more fun to drive, but at this point in technology, the AutoStick is much more advanced. Also, if you were a strip racer, you get faster performance out of the AutoStick.

I assume you've got a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. If that's actually the case it's no wonder you don't care to actually drive it. Driving involves corners too you know....

i've only ever driven sticks, driving an automatic isn't even driving

As somebody that his driven trucks across the country and been stuck in stop and go traffic for hours manual transmission can fark off.

It's nearly impossible to buy a car with a stick nowadays. Your selection of cars immediately gets cut in third. And cut again when manual is only offered on the base model, no options.

There's some good smaller cars that have it (WRX, Mazdaspeed 3), but once you start looking at full size cars you run out of options real quick.

My first car was a '70 Maverick with column mounted stick shift. Boy was that a bear to learn on. Since then I've typically owned automatics but knowing how to drive a manual has been a lifesaver a number of times -- The time the rental place lost our reservation and all they had left was an old truck with manual, driving drunk friends home in their sweet sports cars when I was piss poor, having my pick of cars when traveling, and getting to drive the big rig to move the trailers around instead of having to load them during a summer gig at RPS.

It's not hard to learn so just hijack a friend with a stick shift some weekend and figure it out.

around 40 of my cars have been manual transmissions, I'm just more comfortable with them. I taught my wife to drive a manual transmission and will be teaching my kids the same.

My current daily driver is a manual transmission car with no power locks, no power windows and no ABS. Everything works, all the time.

One of the things that I hate about an automatic is that if you own it long enough you will rebuild or replace the transmission and rebuilding an automatic trans sucks. The only automatics that I have owned recently that haven't given me any grief were in 50+ year old cars.

Autos require less attention while driving. But the manuals are cheaper.

They're cheaper to maintain: I drive my cars until the wheels fall off. Previous owner had ragged the transmission and I bought a new-to-me one when 3rd gear died. Had the shop replace the clutch plate while they had it apart (duh!). 200,000 miles later same clutch going strong.

They're cheaper to drive: Shift as late as possible without lugging the engine; get almost 40 MPG as long as you drive the speed limit. No hypermiling douchbaggery or expensive, polluting battery (ok, hundreds of little batteries) required.

I fell in love with the Honda Element and test drove a bunch of them....all automatics. None of them had any real balls....no get-up-and-go. I don't need it to be a racecar, but it just seemed to not be able to get out of its own way.

I was about ready to go with something else when I found a manual and test drove it. Just about left the parking lot sideways.

Came back 20 minutes later and had them start the paperwork on it.

You should learn to drive a standard when learning to drive. You also should learn to fly in a tail dragger when learning to fly. If you don't your limiting yourself and not really learning nothing

difrancopsycho: just bought a '12 volkswagen gti, manual
:oD


How do you like it? I'm getting one in the next couple of weeks. Can't wait!

The VW salesman really, really wanted to know why I wanted a manual. Like it was the only one he'd ever sold. I also ride a motorcycle, and I like to know exactly what gear I'm in. I also get better highway mileage, and I got to dick around and get a good price on the car when I bought it because manuals are a tough sell in my area, apparently.

The best thing about owning a manual: NOBODY WANTS TO BORROW MY CAR.

4 of the 8 cars I've owned in 30 years have had manual transmissions. I'm completely comfortable with either one.

Driving a stick in the UK and Australia was a hoot! :oD

karlandtanya: Autos require less attention while driving.

And that is one of the major downfalls of Automatics.

nicoffeine: SoxSweepAgain: Lunchlady: Just bought a manual a month ago. Had the guy at the Honda dealership give me shiat because I wasn't interested in a single car on his lot if it didn't have a stick, didn't care about price. He asked why that was my sticking point. Told him I'd have the car long after I finished paying it off so for me actually enjoying the car was much more important than what I paid.

Got a Ford.

LOVE this.

Six Fords in a row for me.

I have had an Escort (when I was 21) followed by three Ranger pickups. Then a Mercury (Ford) T-Bird equivalent at the time, and now my MOST reliable (most reliable! wonder car... a 2004 Mustang (with 100,058 miles on it that is still on its original brake pads and shocks, runs like a flipping dream, and in its life has required one alternator, one tie-rod, two batteries and eight tires).

Oil changes every 5,000 (no, not 3,000) miles and just driving it like the wonderful beast that it is.

I LOVE FORDS.

The last nicoffeinemobile was a 1989 5 speed ranger. It would not be killed. My son has it now, it's at 320k and how it made that 10 years of my abuse is beyond me. I should have killed it. IT WON'T DIE.

I freakin' love Rangers. Learned to drive in my dad's when I was in high school. Had a 98' four-banger in the military and in college, sold it to a friend of my dad with 100,000+ miles on it, he tells me it's still running like a champ. Now I have a '07 XLT 4x4 that has the perfect combination of size/features for everything I need. Oh yeah, and both of the ones I've owned have been 5-speeds.

Tenatra: Stick shift drivers are almost my most hated thing on the road

Usual experience -

At a red light waiting for it to change
Green light
Accelerate
oh the guy in front of me accelerates extremely slow so I ride my brake/coast. He shifts
we start getting up to a decent speed (10-15 mph under the farking speed limit) and he shifts. I brake
A little way down the road he shifts and I have to ride my brakes again
We speed up, he shifts, I brake...


/I have had the privilege of driving stick once.
//Friend bought an old 4Runner from the city auction but didn't have his license
///I had to drive the damn thing across the city in rush hour traffic (woohoo somehow managed not to stall it)

Sounds like you might be the crappy driver....

KrispyKritter: manual trans are great fun to drive while giving you a more 'in control' feel of the vehicle: better acceleration & greater control for fast stops. IMHO it is heavy stop and go commuter traffic killing manual tranny sales. becomes a PITA joyless task resulting in the next car being an automatic.

as for many Jeeps i think it doesn't matter anymore. they've become pussified cushiony comfort-laden vehicles for fat ass soccer moms. from what i've read some 98% of 4WD vehicles in America are never taken off road. if you live in an area where there is real winter weather you've seen plenty of Jeeps spun out, buried in snow drifts and smashed up because the owners don't have enough common sense to drive slowly and with care.

I hear ya. Not a manual fan at all anymore. I learned on one, but do enjoy automatic for 99% of the other shiate I do daily. I rarely need to do any tricky towing, and I have 4wd for snow and camping (which as you noted is useless unless you know how to drive in 4wd). Beyond that I was a witness in a "jerky goose" accident 3 weeks ago where some dickless loser had to sit there and goose his pedal and rollback in a nice 6' swath. Ended up rolling back into the guy behind him who was not too impressed. I guess he was probably a bad driver to begin with, but I made sure I noted to the officer that he appeared to be dickless. You are also correct about Jeeps. As I have noted in other threads, they are more suited to bring a Ranch Swiss Chicken melt than towing anything-and all the while bouncing all over the road with their less than ideal shocks/donger springs lol. I cringe to think how thinkgs would look if this place was actually hilly.

Rasraf Mekerk: difrancopsycho: just bought a '12 volkswagen gti, manual
:oD


How do you like it? I'm getting one in the next couple of weeks. Can't wait!

..it's. magical. you're gonna jizz all over it, or vice versa.

Autos require less attention while driving.

And that is one of the major downfalls of Americans

ecmoRandomNumbers: If you can't drive a manual transmission, you don't know how to drive, IMO.

What an enormously stupid opinion to hold.

My AWESOME hyundai elantra has a five speed. Wiiiirrrrrr, wirrrrrrrr

How are the new jettas ? Reliable? shiatty ?? Thinking of getting my mom one on the cheap since its nice and small. Time for her to lose her bigass suv.

In France here, the only ones I know who drive automatics are because they have high-end BMWs or Mercedes, with engines torquy enough it would explode a manual transmission, or people that are physically unable to drive a manual (bum leg). So, I can count on the finger of one ends the people I personnally know who drive automatics.

DarkVader: Given how good computer control and dual-clutch automatic gearboxes are, there's no reason for manual transmissions to be built anymore. The computer is better at shifting than you are. Really. And the dual-clutch boxes don't have the lossy torque converters, so gas mileage/power to wheels is actually better than a stick. You CAN'T shift as fast as the computer. You CAN'T shift as smoothly as the computer. And you are NOT more in control of the car. The limitations of the stick mean that the car is more in control of you.

All good till the last line, but I digress. Yes, DCT can shift faster. It also weighs more, and is certainly pricier to fix if / when something goes wrong. And it's still not as engaging / fun as a manual transmission.

drew46n2: I prefer stick but the wife can't drive one, so I got an auto-stick. not the same, but you do what you can.

Dude that's WHY I got the manual transmission!

foxyshadis: DarkVader: Given how good computer control and dual-clutch automatic gearboxes are, there's no reason for manual transmissions to be built anymore. The computer is better at shifting than you are. Really. And the dual-clutch boxes don't have the lossy torque converters, so gas mileage/power to wheels is actually better than a stick. You CAN'T shift as fast as the computer. You CAN'T shift as smoothly as the computer. And you are NOT more in control of the car. The limitations of the stick mean that the car is more in control of you.

/Yes, I can drive a stick just fine, thanks.
//And yes, a stick is in many ways better than a hydraulic slushbox.

CVT has rendered manual completely obsolete, other that the added weight and complexity (which are not negligible, but a worthwhile tradeoff). At any speed you can now ask the computer to rev up if you need to slow down more quickly or speed up in a hurry. The only problem right now is in the interfaces: The only cars with CVT either have no control at all over the RPM, or a stupid pseudo-gearing. You should have a tach throttle that you can pull back to continuously change the gear ratio until it's where you want it. THAT is control. Fiddling with gears is just liking what you grew up with.

Then again, electric cars might make all of this obsolete before manufacturers figure out how to make an interface.

I second the CVT. I always hated automatics for the jerky shifting when you need higher torque. See, in a manual you can see the hill coming and smoothly downshift before you get there. With a CVT you don't have to do anything and the car smoothly increases the RPMs to compensate. It does this on a downhill as well which is really cool.

So, since my wife doesn't drive stick a CVT and/or electric car is a good compromise. For the time being I still have my stick shift car though, but when it comes time to replace that I'll go for one of those. Also, the CVT is more efficient than a stick shift anyway.

What I really want though is self driving cars. Even better, podcars. While the car companies wouldn't want a world in which people don't have much use for cars, I'm sure the take rate on manuals would skyrocket if podcars were the primary form of transportation. Because the stick shift is the most enjoyable driving experience as long as you have an open road.

Some people think in binary. For example, "If you don't want the newest technology in one thing, you must want the oldest technology in all things." So if you don't want to eat that molecular gastronomy stuff, you must be scavenging carrion and eating raw roots, right? And why should anyone own a printed book when there are ebooks?

Life is analog. It's not about the newest or the oldest; it's about the best, and specifically the best for who you are and what you're doing. I drive a stick and own an ebook reader. I use both a tablet computer and a pad of paper on a clipboard (and a fountain pen to write on it with, for that matter). I have a wireless remote camera watching who's ringing my wired-in doorbell (avoids having to leave my desk just to tell the Mormons/JW's/etc. to fark off). As Dean Ing once wrote, "sometimes what you need is just a doorknob."

"It is better because it's new and improved" is no more valid than "it is better because it's old and proven."

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: ecmoRandomNumbers: If you can't drive a manual transmission, you don't know how to drive, IMO.

What an enormously stupid opinion to hold.

In the UK if you do not pass your test in a manual you are not granted a full driving license, you are granted an automatic-only licnese and it is illegal for you to then drive a manual.

so actually he/she's is sort of right.