What sucks is that Cosmo and the others never ever answer the one really big question about sex etiquette. Ladies, what if you're in the middle of sucking on his meat snorkel during a mask-fogging session of scuba sex, you're getting oxygen-starved, and you need to take a hit off your reg at about the same time you sense that he's about to climax?

No, instead there's articles like "148 Ways to Bring Him to the Edge of Ecstasy with Alligator Clips" or some crappola like that...

/Hmmmph...

This just in, the best advice seldom comes from the bleachers and it's usually not dispensed during the game. Opportunity costs, how to they work?

sycraft:

Well she clearly isn't being true to herself about who she is and what she wants. You are not simultaneously someone who is free and open to sex right away, and someone who is reserved and really gets to know someone before they are ready for sex. One of those sides of her is a lie, and it is fairly easy to guess which. For some reason though, she has to play games when she likes the guy. Thus far, it hasn't worked so well for her.

And these are the women who give me a bad name. I won't sleep with you if I don't feel just a little bit of something more. It doesn't have to be "OMG THIS IS MY FOREVER LOVE". but at the same time, I don't do "strictly casual no strings sex". I've had many a "no second date" because I didn't put out on the first. I also don't expect the man to pay for the first date. I'm perfectly happy paying my share on the first date. He owes me nothing. If I thought I could get away with it, most times I'd be happy paying for ALL the first date if he asked me out. It takes alot to put yourself out there and ask. I've asked men out, and I've been turned down, and taken up on the offer. It's not easy to ask someone out. They put themselves out there, and even if I decide to not go out with them again, I'm totally down with paying. it's not a scorecard, just honest appreciation of the effort it took.

Men get a raw deal from women who expect THEM to do the asking out.

WhippingBoy: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a guy, nor have you spent a lot of time around them...

Nope, not a guy, but spent a LOT of time around them, usually in very "male" settings (the military, strip clubs, etc.). It's always been very fascinating to me to see how guys behave when there aren't a lot of women around, or when there are very FEW women around. They definitely behave differently!

My point (as it ALWAYS is in these threads!) is that men and women need to be honest with one another. Period. This isn't rocket science, for heavens' sake! It's about human relationships, and that's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.

But that means NOT playing passive-aggressive little games. It means speaking openly and honestly about the relationship and about each other. And it also means being confident enough with yourself that you're able to be honest.

If I'm looking for a FWB/booty call, I'm confident enough in myself to simply ASK for it. I'm comfortable enough with my own sexuality and sexual desires to be able to say, "I really just want a one-night stand. So just so we're clear, this is NOT a prelude to a relationship, ok?" And if he thinks that's too forward or he thinks I'm a slut, then I'm confident enough to KNOW that I can easily get a little dick from any of a dozen other guys in the same room who are at least as hot as he is. If, on the other hand, I'm looking for a relationship, I'm confident enough in myself to say, "You know, I'm really not interested in a one-night stand. What I'm really looking for is to get to know you with an eye to the possibility that the two of us could build a lasting relationship together if we both feel that we're compatible." And I know that if he thinks that's too forward or is put off by the fact that I'm not beating around the bush, he's not the right guy for me, and I can easily find somebody else in a matter of days or weeks.

But what I've found is that MOST OF THE TIME, when a woman approaches a man honestly like that, he admires her honesty and her openness. He might not be looking for the same thing (he may respond to the second of the above by saying, "That's cool, but I'm not really wanting a relationship right now."), but he usually at least respects and appreciates the way that she goes about it.

I may not be a guy, but I've been around enough guys to know that VERY FEW OF THEM like playing those stupid games and having them played on them.

Quinsisdos: Pilikia:So I have to wonder what search terms you're using to get to these particular tumblrs. HMMMMM?! ;-)

Oh, no search terms, just a random broadside from farking nowhere.

I know I shouldn't be surprised by anything you read on the internet these days, but dayum.

No doubt. Somebody's dad (and mom?) must have farked her over hard. Or maybe some frat boy raped her - that happens often enough. Or maybe both plus a bunch of other things. Or maybe it's just (like you pointed out) people say shiat on the internet they would never say or do IRL.

/shrugs helplessly

Ladies, remember sometimes a guy just wants to get laid, just plain raw sex, we don't want to "make love" every time.

morgantx: Nogale: Contrabulous Flabtraption: How to Land a Man in 5 Easy Steps

1. Don't have some sort of horrific mutation
2. Don't be grotesquely fat
3. Put a little effort into your appearance
4. Don't be a raging biatch
5. Put out

By following these 5 steps you can have your pick of 75% of available men.

I answer all these criteria and yet the guys I like aren't interested. They appreciate me, they value me, they tell me I'm "amazing" and "wonderful" but they just don't want to be with me.

My list is a bit different than C.F.'s

1. Enjoy sexytime
2. Pay your bills
3. Talk less
4. Shower more
5. Learn to love to cook
6. Focus and finish
7. Don't gossip
8. Learn to love to fish or hunt or camp or canoe, etc.
9. Don't obsess
10. Become selfless

If a woman can do all ten of these things, not only will she make her partner happy, she can be guaranteed to be successful as well.

cig-mkr: Ladies, remember sometimes a guy just wants to get laid, just plain raw sex, we don't want to "make love" every time.

you've been around the wrong women. sex is ALWAYS raw, if it's any good. Pillows and silk and posing, you're just playing at it.

Skr: ZMugg: Tried to read one of those magazines. Gave up after 35 pages of advertising. It was hard to tell where the ads ended and the magazine started.

BUY VERSACE

BUY COACH

BUY AVEDA

Table of contents

BUY GAP

BUY DIOR

You make a good point.

This this this and more this.

I opened some women's special issue catalogs that was ~200, I believe it was some Cosmo "Fashion" edition, literally 54 pages in was the first non-advertising content and it was the letter from the editor saying "thanks for buying this"

CUZN_Ovoids: morgantx: Nogale: Contrabulous Flabtraption: How to Land a Man in 5 Easy Steps

1. Don't have some sort of horrific mutation
2. Don't be grotesquely fat
3. Put a little effort into your appearance
4. Don't be a raging biatch
5. Put out

By following these 5 steps you can have your pick of 75% of available men.

I answer all these criteria and yet the guys I like aren't interested. They appreciate me, they value me, they tell me I'm "amazing" and "wonderful" but they just don't want to be with me.

My list is a bit different than C.F.'s

1. Enjoy sexytime
2. Pay your bills
3. Talk less
4. Shower more
5. Learn to love to cook
6. Focus and finish
7. Don't gossip
8. Learn to love to fish or hunt or camp or canoe, etc.
9. Don't obsess
10. Become selfless

If a woman can do all ten of these things, not only will she make her partner happy, she can be guaranteed to be successful as well.

you know that goes both ways, right?

/hunts
//cooks
///loves fellatio
////shops like a man (get in, get what you want, check out)

morgantx: WhippingBoy: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a guy, nor have you spent a lot of time around them...

My point (as it ALWAYS is in these threads!) is that men and women need to be honest with one another. Period. This isn't rocket science, for heavens' sake! It's about human relationships, and that's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.


Bravo. Took my wife and I 10 years of marriage to figure that one out, and 6 more years of marriage for each of us to distill the basic lesson into a useful two-column list. One column is things that motivate us, the other is things that make us roll our eyes and leave the room. Surprise, surprise, both lists are very similar. Except hers doesn't have blowjobs on it anywhere, which I choose to take as a sign that I may receive at least one more before I die. ;-)

CUZN_Ovoids:
My list is a bit different than C.F.'s

1. Enjoy sexytime
2. Pay your bills
3. Talk less
4. Shower more
5. Learn to love to cook
6. Focus and finish
7. Don't gossip
8. Learn to love to fish or hunt or camp or canoe, etc.
9. Don't obsess
10. Become selfless

If a woman can do all ten of these things, not only will she make her partner happy, she can be guaranteed to be successful as well.

Just need to point out that a few of those are going to be hard to find in the same person. For example, you mention #6 and #9; it's going to be hard to find a woman who is able to focus on a single task (to be "mindful" rather than "multi-tasking") and does not have at least a few areas that she can become obsessive about. Likewise, it's going to be hard to find a woman who is #8 (an outdoorswoman) who is also obsessed with frequent showers (#4). A woman comfortable enough with getting dirty to enjoy hunting, fishing, camping, and boating is a woman who is more likely to shower every other day than twice a day.

I would also point out that #10 (being selfless) might not be as great as you think when that selflessness comes in a form that you don't approve of. I think what you really mean is, "Don't be selfish when it comes to our relationship," which is a GOOD thing. But I would ask, what about you? If one side of the relationship cares more about his/her partner than himself/herself, and the OTHER side also cares more about his/her partner than himself/herself, it's a GREAT relationship! But if one partner is playing by the rules and the other isn't, it's just not fair.

/Not a criticism, just a few questions about your list
//What about, "Not an anti-gun zealot"? If you like to hunt, you don't want to be married to a lobbyist for the Brady Organization!

morgantx: I can see your point, but I don't think that's as much of the issue here. The OP seems relatively intelligent herself (at least judging by her grammar, her obvious assertiveness, etc.), so a match of unequals would be her going for somebody stupid. She says she doesn't want a man threatened by a woman in better condition than him, so I'm guessing she's probably some sort of bodybuilder or fitness buff? And she's TALL - it's understandable that she doesn't want to be in a relationship where she's going to be towering over some short, fat, stupid guy like some Amazon princess. Maybe I'm giving OP too much credit, but it looks like she's looking for an equal match - not looking to date "up" - just to date on the same level.

Sure, but 5'8"+ guys that are reasonably intelligent and can manage to walk a few miles without collapsing are all over the farking place.

shiat, that's probably 30-50% of males, much more in urban areas in the States. She's not in the states, and I can't say the dating market outside the States is anything anywhere near what I care about, but if average-ish height, reasonably intelligent men that are in shape can pull all the poon they want there, then starting up something long term is going to be tricky. Maybe they'll settle down when older, but Tel Aviv doesn't sound like a settle down kind of place. I wouldn't know.

I'm assuming that men in Israel are at least as intelligent as men in the States and probably generally prettier and in better shape, so even more men to choose from.

/Unless they're short.

morgantx: WhippingBoy: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a guy, nor have you spent a lot of time around them...

Nope, not a guy, but spent a LOT of time around them, usually in very "male" settings (the military, strip clubs, etc.). It's always been very fascinating to me to see how guys behave when there aren't a lot of women around, or when there are very FEW women around. They definitely behave differently!

My point (as it ALWAYS is in these threads!) is that men and women need to be honest with one another. Period. This isn't rocket science, for heavens' sake! It's about human relationships, and that's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.

But that means NOT playing passive-aggressive little games. It means speaking openly and honestly about the relationship and about each other. And it also means being confident enough with yourself that you're able to be honest.

If I'm looking for a FWB/booty call, I'm confident enough in myself to simply ASK for it. I'm comfortable enough with my own sexuality and sexual desires to be able to say, "I really just want a one-night stand. So just so we're clear, this is NOT a prelude to a relationship, ok?" And if he thinks that's too forward or he thinks I'm a slut, then I'm confident enough to KNOW that I can easily get a little dick from any of a dozen other guys in the same room who are at least as hot as he is. If, on the other hand, I'm looking for a relationship, I'm confident enough in myself to say, "You know, I'm really not interested in a one-night stand. What I'm really looking for is to get to know you with an eye to the possibility that the two of us could build a lasting relationship together if we both feel that we're compatible." And I know that if he thinks that's too forward or is put off by the fact that I'm not beating around the bush, he's not the right guy for me, and I can easily find somebody else in a matter of days or weeks.

But what I've found is that MOST OF THE TIME, when a woman approaches a man honestly like that, he admires her honesty and her openness. He might not be looking for the same thing (he may respond to the second of the above by saying, "That's cool, but I'm not really wanting a relationship right now."), but he usually at least respects and appreciates the way that she goes about it.

I may not be a guy, but I've been around enough guys to know that VERY FEW OF THEM like playing those stupid games and having them played on them.

Personally, if you came up to me and said you wanted sex outright, no games, no strings attached, my first though would be of disease and that you've done this many times before with lots of men. That's a turn off.

No, men (and women) don't like games, yet we know it's necessary. Pre-sex games, I mean. Playing games while in a relationship spells disaster.

Tyranicle: No, men (and women) don't like games, yet we know it's necessary. Pre-sex games, I mean. Playing games while in a relationship spells disaster.

True but there are several obvious games of that sort that allow everyone to play along, not lose face, and generally know what's on offer.

/Like inviting someone back to your place for coffee when its 1 am.
//Hot coffee.

Pilikia: morgantx: WhippingBoy: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a guy, nor have you spent a lot of time around them...

My point (as it ALWAYS is in these threads!) is that men and women need to be honest with one another. Period. This isn't rocket science, for heavens' sake! It's about human relationships, and that's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.


Bravo. Took my wife and I 10 years of marriage to figure that one out, and 6 more years of marriage for each of us to distill the basic lesson into a useful two-column list. One column is things that motivate us, the other is things that make us roll our eyes and leave the room. Surprise, surprise, both lists are very similar. Except hers doesn't have blowjobs on it anywhere, which I choose to take as a sign that I may receive at least one more before I die. ;-)

I wish more couples would actually sit down with a pen and paper and MAKE A LIST!!! Or write down the agreements that you make! It's amazing how many arguments this will solve/prevent. There's something about sitting down with a notepad and a pen that changes the dynamic of the situation. It takes you from thinking emotionally and talking in generalities to thinking rationally and talking in specifics. When you're just talking, it's easy to say, "I want you to spend more time with me!" which really means nothing at all! But when you're taking notes, you're more likely to say, "I want you to spend five days a week with me and then you can spend two days a week with your friends," because that makes a lot more sense to write down. You have to DEFINE "more", "less", "never", "always", "often", "seldom", "rarely", etc. It really changes things a lot!

morgantx: "I want you to spend five days a week with me and then you can spend two days a week with your friends,"

Heh. Five? That sounds like a lot.

I was with this great girl for a bit and we just hung out and lived and worked and ate and f*ked together all the time and laughed about sh*t and sometimes we were sad but mostly we were happy. I miss her.

Tyranicle: Personally, if you came up to me and said you wanted sex outright, no games, no strings attached, my first though would be of disease and that you've done this many times before with lots of men. That's a turn off.

No, men (and women) don't like games, yet we know it's necessary. Pre-sex games, I mean. Playing games while in a relationship spells disaster.

Perhaps it's a regional thing, but frankly, I've found that the women who are HONEST about their sexual desires are LESS likely to have STDs.

Around here (Texas, and not one of the cool parts!), there are lots of people of both genders that like having sex, and lots of those like having sex outside of the relationship. Yet there's this stigma associated with women who are "sluts". So when a woman wants to have casual sex, she has a few drinks and says she was "drunk", which allows her to have sex. BUT if she's carrying condoms, then she was obviously "planning it", which means that she can't use the "I'm drunk" excuse or the "Whoops! It just happened!" excuse. Which means that in the long run, she ends up with far MORE unplanned pregnancies & STDs because all of her sex "just happened".

A woman like me, who actually PLANS on having sex? Let's just say that despite my extensive experience, I've never had an STD. Not once. And I've never had an unplanned pregnancy with a casual sex partner. Not ONCE. Because I use protection EVERY SINGLE TIME I have sex (unless I'm in a monogamous marriage). Yet my sister, who's supposedly a "good girl" and has only had a handful of sexual partners? At least three STDs that I know of (that she's told me about). So that's my take on the STDs thing.

You also mentioned being "turned off" by a woman who's had a lot of sexual partners? That's fine. Because from my perspective, my experience means that I know what I like and what I enjoy, and I'm obviously honest enough to help my partners (even casual ones) know how to please me. Any man who is intimidated by that is probably not good enough in bed to be worth my time anyways. Men who have in the past taken me up on the offer (who were NOT too intimidated by a woman with a very high sex drive) were often men who had a very high level of self-confidence. Men who are more self-conscious tend to be turned off, but that's okay. It's just an easy way for me to tell who's worth my time and energy.

morgantx: Pilikia: morgantx: WhippingBoy: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a guy, nor have you spent a lot of time around them...

My point (as it ALWAYS is in these threads!) is that men and women need to be honest with one another. Period. This isn't rocket science, for heavens' sake! It's about human relationships, and that's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.


Bravo. Took my wife and I 10 years of marriage to figure that one out, and 6 more years of marriage for each of us to distill the basic lesson into a useful two-column list. One column is things that motivate us, the other is things that make us roll our eyes and leave the room. Surprise, surprise, both lists are very similar. Except hers doesn't have blowjobs on it anywhere, which I choose to take as a sign that I may receive at least one more before I die. ;-)

I wish more couples would actually sit down with a pen and paper and MAKE A LIST!!! Or write down the agreements that you make! It's amazing how many arguments this will solve/prevent. There's something about sitting down with a notepad and a pen that changes the dynamic of the situation. It takes you from thinking emotionally and talking in generalities to thinking rationally and talking in specifics. When you're just talking, it's easy to say, "I want you to spend more time with me!" which really means nothing at all! But when you're taking notes, you're more likely to say, "I want you to spend five days a week with me and then you can spend two days a week with your friends," because that makes a lot more sense to write down. You have to DEFINE "more", "less", "never", "always", "often", "seldom", "rarely", etc. It really changes things a lot!

Right? The one from my list that has so far solved the most arguments reads something like, "I have nasty bouts of insomnia pretty regularly. If I leave our bed and spend the night on the family room couch, it has nothing to do with you (unless you sent me there). It usually just means I don't want to lay there in the dark. Nagging me constantly about it because it makes you feel insecure just makes it worse, so either ask me if I got enough sleep or just let it ride."

The one from her list said, I think, "something something something STOP SPENDING MONEY ON STUPID shiat something something something..." ;-)

/I am at work right now
//a lot of my longer days involve lots of waiting
///hence posting on Fark instead of hanging with my family

morgantx: You also mentioned being "turned off" by a woman who's had a lot of sexual partners? That's fine. Because from my perspective, my experience means that I know what I like and what I enjoy, and I'm obviously honest enough to help my partners (even casual ones) know how to please me. Any man who is intimidated by that is probably not good enough in bed to be worth my time anyways. Men who have in the past taken me up on the offer (who were NOT too intimidated by a woman with a very high sex drive) were often men who had a very high level of self-confidence. Men who are more self-conscious tend to be turned off, but that's okay. It's just an easy way for me to tell who's worth my time and energy

I only took one woman up on such an offer many years ago, and she was the most interesting, craziest person I have ever spent time with.

/Not entirely in a good way.
//Of course, there's direct and then there's direct.

morgantx: I wish more couples would actually sit down with a pen and paper and MAKE A LIST!!! Or write down the agreements that you make! It's amazing how many arguments this will solve/prevent. There's something about sitting down with a notepad and a pen that changes the dynamic of the situation. It takes you from thinking emotionally and talking in generalities to thinking rationally and talking in specifics. When you're just talking, it's easy to say, "I want you to spend more time with me!" which really means nothing at all! But when you're taking notes, you're more likely to say, "I want you to spend five days a week with me and then you can spend two days a week with your friends," because that makes a lot more sense to write down. You have to DEFINE "more", "less", "never", "always", "often", "seldom", "rarely", etc. It really changes things a lot!

It also forces people to clarify their ideas, and perhaps reflect on what they really want. Also can help people see if they are being a little unreasonable. As you said "more" is pretty nebulous. If someone has to sit and write down specifics, they can clarify what it is that they really want.

Heck one thing I think many couples really should do a list on is chore responsibility lists. The reason is I've seen it as a point of contention far too often. One person, usually the wife, feels the other needs to "do more to help". However that is an extremely vague statement. Also there's not a way to know if that is a reasonable request until things have been enumerated. So making a list of "things I am responsible for getting done" and "things you are responsible for getting done" can go a long way to clarifying what both people think they should be doing and making sure things really are fair.

A friend's brother badly needs that. He has a stay at home wife who is constantly on him about not helping enough. Now I don't know all the details, but from what I do know, she's probably being unreasonable. A way to sort that out would be to make a list and discuss who should do what.

Now this doesn't have to be a Written in Stone Contract for All Time(tm), it can certainly be fluid, but it can help give people make sure things are in some kind of balance, and just have a reminder of what to do. Check your list and say "Oh ya, I'm supposed to do X."

OgreMagi: mcwehrle: Ok, that's what I do. And I do chatter, and like you, I have a fairly large vocabulary, and sometimes I use words that others don't know. And like you, if they ask, I'll happily define it. I'm not condescending about it. We all don't know everything everyone else knows. But yes, some people are just offended. That makes me uncomfortable. I'm not a wimp, but I sort of "feel bad" if I've made someone else uncomfortable. Some of the smartest, most capable people I know, far "smarter" than me, barely completed high school or have a GED. It doesn't matter to me, the person does.

The crazy ex (yes, the same one as the previous story) accused me of being a manipulative asshole (her words, not mine) because I happen to be a good speaker with an excellent vocabulary. SAY WHAT!? I'm a good speaker because I spent 20 years as an improvisational actor (hobby, not a job) and I have a good vocabulary because my dad was an English professor who set damn high standards when I was a kid. I'm sure if I wasn't a good speaker and had a limited vocabulary she would have accused me of being ignorant.

Did I know your ex or one of her relatives? I was manipulative if I spoke, or manipulative if I didn't (or was not speaking where Id get the psychological warefare rant?).

Guest: I agree with the reporter about articles that tell women how they can be a good mother, wife and career woman shiat me to tears. Not because I don't believe they can but because of the underlying message that it's a woman's job to do all these things but not the mans. Sorry in today's society men also have to balance their careers with childcare. They also have to tend to home domestic duties as well as the woman. The days of the woman staying at home so that the man can work and be blissfully ignorant of all the extra work that go into running a stable home and life are over. Today they both work, they both take care of their children including both needing to take time off work at times and they both keep the house in order.

I don't believe most men will make good mothers, wives or career women.

sycraft: morgantx: I wish more couples would actually sit down with a pen and paper and MAKE A LIST!!! Or write down the agreements that you make! It's amazing how many arguments this will solve/prevent. There's something about sitting down with a notepad and a pen that changes the dynamic of the situation. It takes you from thinking emotionally and talking in generalities to thinking rationally and talking in specifics. When you're just talking, it's easy to say, "I want you to spend more time with me!" which really means nothing at all! But when you're taking notes, you're more likely to say, "I want you to spend five days a week with me and then you can spend two days a week with your friends," because that makes a lot more sense to write down. You have to DEFINE "more", "less", "never", "always", "often", "seldom", "rarely", etc. It really changes things a lot!

It also forces people to clarify their ideas, and perhaps reflect on what they really want. Also can help people see if they are being a little unreasonable. As you said "more" is pretty nebulous. If someone has to sit and write down specifics, they can clarify what it is that they really want.

Heck one thing I think many couples really should do a list on is chore responsibility lists. The reason is I've seen it as a point of contention far too often. One person, usually the wife, feels the other needs to "do more to help". However that is an extremely vague statement. Also there's not a way to know if that is a reasonable request until things have been enumerated. So making a list of "things I am responsible for getting done" and "things you are responsible for getting done" can go a long way to clarifying what both people think they should be doing and making sure things really are fair.

I once kept a private "diary" for a couple of months detailing the household chores and child-rearing responsibilities I handled each day. My wife was of the vague "you don't do enough" persuasion, so I just kind of wanted to see how much I was actually doing. She found it one day and it was the subject of a dozen or so arguments over the course of the next two or three years. So yeah, I agree, EXPLICIT lists, updated frequently as the situation on the ground changes. I know a couple of couples for whom it just sort of seems to flow telepathically, but just about everyone else needs lists.

/and more lists

RedVentrue: Today they both work, they both take care of their children including both needing to take time off work at times and they both keep the house in order.

And if the proof is in the pudding, we seem to be doing a piss poor job of all of it.

sycraft: Heck one thing I think many couples really should do a list on is chore responsibility lists. The reason is I've seen it as a point of contention far too often. One person, usually the wife, feels the other needs to "do more to help". However that is an extremely vague statement. Also there's not a way to know if that is a reasonable request until things have been enumerated..

This folds into what I have heard from so MANY of my female friends...that I want to just biatch slap them for....."he folded the towels WRONG"..."he didn't hang the shirts IN ORDER" (I don't even know what "in order means".....)

WOMEN....if the man does things....stop biatching. Just because it's not like YOU would do it, it's DONE. For Fark's sake, lighten the fark up!!!! Are the towels folded and put away? Yes? Then shut the FARK UP. Did the floor get swept? the dishes done? Yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP Did the yard get mowed? The snow shoveled? The trash out? yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP!!!!!!

FFS, if things get done, HE'S DOING HIS PART.

FTFA:

Are you a woman who wants to "get ahead"?

No, I'm just a man who wants to get some head.

Wow. Articles in women's magazines are stupid. That's some ace journalism, there, Lou!

*eyeroll*

mcwehrle: sycraft: intelligent, reasoned statement that makes me respect sycraft very much

It's funny you mentioned the "above two standard deviations". I am. I don't like when 'some' people have to bring that up. I hate "you're so smart" I'm not. I have an average life, a happy life, but nothing that 99.5% of other people of a similar eco/gender/whatever don't have. But I won't lie about it if directly questioned, and I never turn the discussion there. (this is NOT an everyday occurrence, but it happens more often than I thought it would).

I've read your posts and you seem to be very reasoned and well informed. Do you have any advice on how to gracefully handle a situation like this? I don't really like talking about it, but I get pinned down, and I'll admit, I'm not the most socially gifted gal. I tend to be honest, or factual. Not necessarily blunt. But as I said, I see no reason to lie if asked directly.

If I'm paying just a little attention, I'll probably figure out that you're brighter than I am if that's the case, whether I'm told explicitly or not. So will most other people. You then get to deal with their reaction to that fact. Not much way around it. It would probably cause me to ask for a date. There'd be some novelty in that. I'm used to being somewhere close to the smartest person in the room, but then, I've never had a job that required a PhD, and my acquaintances have run to people that fancied themselves artists, or rock musicians, when they weren't just drunken shiatheads. However, you're a bit far from where I live, so you're safe from my miraculous ability to turn fairly mundane social situations into utter, embarrassing abortions.

Needlessly Complicated: Wow. Articles in women's magazines are stupid. That's some ace journalism, there, Lou!

*eyeroll*

"Women's magazines" are the literary equivalent of cotton candy.

/Men's magazines are like delicious bacon.

1. Be honest.
2. Refer to rule 1
3. Realize people are people and learn to forgive every now and then.
4. After years, maybe decades even, passion turns to compassion. It's not a deal breaker.

mcwehrle: This folds into what I have heard from so MANY of my female friends...that I want to just biatch slap them for....."he folded the towels WRONG"..."he didn't hang the shirts IN ORDER" (I don't even know what "in order means".....)

WOMEN....if the man does things....stop biatching. Just because it's not like YOU would do it, it's DONE. For Fark's sake, lighten the fark up!!!! Are the towels folded and put away? Yes? Then shut the FARK UP. Did the floor get swept? the dishes done? Yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP Did the yard get mowed? The snow shoveled? The trash out? yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP!!!!!!

FFS, if things get done, HE'S DOING HIS PART.

That isn't gender specific, I've seen plenty of guys who have a "It has to be done MY way or it is wrong!" complex. That is ok, but only if you are willing to do it. There are things in life that I want done my way. All of them, I'll do. If nobody else does it right, I will do it because then it is right (according to me). It's not ok when you want someone else to do something, but then get mad because their methodology is different.

Another part of the problem is I think some people are inclined to write off jobs a spouse does, because they'd never to them themselves. I've seen that with home maintenance in particular. A woman will say her man "did nothing to help," when it turns out he was busy replacing a leaky faucet, changing the oil in a car, and fixing a broken bookshelf. To her those are all just silly things guys do, not actual "housework" because she doesn't understand them and/or would never do them herself. So it all counts as "nothing" when it comes to chores.

Again reasons I think the list idea is a good one (in the event chores are a thing of contention). You list out what you each are expected to do, how often that thing generally gets done, and a sort of mean time it takes. That can help give an idea of how much each person is responsible for.

It's funny how there are always articles for women about how to please their man, but you never see articles for men on how to please women. Maybe that should be a clue that men don't waste their time obsessing about how to make women happy so women shouldn't waste their time obsessing about how to make men happy. The fact of the matter is if you're in a loving relationship you should probably BOTH be trying to make the other happy because you want to, not because it's an obligation or manipulation of some sort. But this shouldn't really be effort/work to make it happen, it should just be a natural part of your relationship.

I guess these things have never been difficult to me. You like someone, they like you, you hang out, it either naturally leads somewhere or it doesn't. If your conflicts outweigh your happiness, you move on. If the other person irritates you so much that it gets to the point that they disgust or anger you more than they make you happy, it's not meant to be. Maybe you spend a few months alone, then you meet someone else and repeat the process.

For me, when I met "the one" it was pretty clear from the get-go and has been very clear ever since. If you have to stress over it, it's probably not right. It doesn't mean there aren't conflicts, it just means that those conflicts are fleeting and can't even begin to put a chip into the foundation of your relationship.

morgantx: Tyranicle: Personally, if you came up to me and said you wanted sex outright, no games, no strings attached, my first though would be of disease and that you've done this many times before with lots of men. That's a turn off.

No, men (and women) don't like games, yet we know it's necessary. Pre-sex games, I mean. Playing games while in a relationship spells disaster.

Perhaps it's a regional thing, but frankly, I've found that the women who are HONEST about their sexual desires are LESS likely to have STDs.

Around here (Texas, and not one of the cool parts!), there are lots of people of both genders that like having sex, and lots of those like having sex outside of the relationship. Yet there's this stigma associated with women who are "sluts". So when a woman wants to have casual sex, she has a few drinks and says she was "drunk", which allows her to have sex. BUT if she's carrying condoms, then she was obviously "planning it", which means that she can't use the "I'm drunk" excuse or the "Whoops! It just happened!" excuse. Which means that in the long run, she ends up with far MORE unplanned pregnancies & STDs because all of her sex "just happened".

A woman like me, who actually PLANS on having sex? Let's just say that despite my extensive experience, I've never had an STD. Not once. And I've never had an unplanned pregnancy with a casual sex partner. Not ONCE. Because I use protection EVERY SINGLE TIME I have sex (unless I'm in a monogamous marriage). Yet my sister, who's supposedly a "good girl" and has only had a handful of sexual partners? At least three STDs that I know of (that she's told me about). So that's my take on the STDs thing.

You also mentioned being "turned off" by a woman who's had a lot of sexual partners? That's fine. Because from my perspective, my experience means that I know what I like and what I enjoy, and I'm obviously honest enough to help my partners (even casual ones) know how to please me. Any man who is intimidated by that is probably not good enough in bed to be worth my time anyways. Men who have in the past taken me up on the offer (who were NOT too intimidated by a woman with a very high sex drive) were often men who had a very high level of self-confidence. Men who are more self-conscious tend to be turned off, but that's okay. It's just an easy way for me to tell who's worth my time and energy.

I'm a Texan myself, though not the 'cool' part, semi-lifelong Houstonian.

So, you like to f+ck and you use protection, no problem with that. You're actually a very lucky woman. Around 75% of woman cannot reach orgasm without clittoral stimulation. 25% of the 75% cannot reach orgasm at all, for the rest of their lives.

However, if and when you decide to settle down, my only advice to you would be to not meet some guy in a bar.

Nogale:

There's no template. I don't care about looks, although I prefer that he be at least my height (5'7"). Has to be intelligent and well-informed, naturally curious with interests he's passionate about. Don't care about formal degrees. Prefer someone who's lived a slightly less than conventional life. Must be able to give me some space. No passive-aggressive types. It's best if he's in good shape, but I don't really care so long as he's not threatened by a woman who's in better condition than he is. Of course, there has to be mutual attraction, which is always an X factor.

Honestly I didn't see anything wrong with this list of what you find attractive. It's pretty similar to what I got.

At least your height: Well most women want that (actually I'm 5'4" if I stretch and like 6' and better).
Intelligent, well-informed, naturally curious and passionate: Well heck, who wants stupid, purposefully ignorant, and lackluster? You aren't selecting his interests for him. If you said "must be a doctoral candidate and know everything about fashion!", you'd deserve some of the criticism. Heck "intelligent, etc" could be: watches TopGear on BBC, follows US politics, and can tell you the history of every US gun manufacturer.
Don't care about formal degrees: to me that says the opposite of "must meet my insane list of requirements"
Less than conventional life: My friend in NY knows lots of guys with Peace Corp time :)
Good shape: that can run the gambit from "will go skiing with me" to "marathoner". Nothing wrong with knowing you like to to be active in your spare time and want someone who isn't going to ditch you.

Not sure why you're getting all the derision. I have more respect for having a decent grasp of what would make you happy over the "OMG I'm single, and he's here and bought me a drink, I MUST DATE HIM OR I'LL BE ALONE!!!"

JDJoeE: OgreMagi: mcwehrle: Ok, that's what I do. And I do chatter, and like you, I have a fairly large vocabulary, and sometimes I use words that others don't know. And like you, if they ask, I'll happily define it. I'm not condescending about it. We all don't know everything everyone else knows. But yes, some people are just offended. That makes me uncomfortable. I'm not a wimp, but I sort of "feel bad" if I've made someone else uncomfortable. Some of the smartest, most capable people I know, far "smarter" than me, barely completed high school or have a GED. It doesn't matter to me, the person does.

The crazy ex (yes, the same one as the previous story) accused me of being a manipulative asshole (her words, not mine) because I happen to be a good speaker with an excellent vocabulary. SAY WHAT!? I'm a good speaker because I spent 20 years as an improvisational actor (hobby, not a job) and I have a good vocabulary because my dad was an English professor who set damn high standards when I was a kid. I'm sure if I wasn't a good speaker and had a limited vocabulary she would have accused me of being ignorant.

Did I know your ex or one of her relatives? I was manipulative if I spoke, or manipulative if I didn't (or was not speaking where Id get the psychological warefare rant?).

Well, she did have a twin sister, so it's entirely possible.

LaraAmber: Nogale:

There's no template. I don't care about looks, although I prefer that he be at least my height (5'7"). Has to be intelligent and well-informed, naturally curious with interests he's passionate about. Don't care about formal degrees. Prefer someone who's lived a slightly less than conventional life. Must be able to give me some space. No passive-aggressive types. It's best if he's in good shape, but I don't really care so long as he's not threatened by a woman who's in better condition than he is. Of course, there has to be mutual attraction, which is always an X factor.

Honestly I didn't see anything wrong with this list of what you find attractive. It's pretty similar to what I got.

At least your height: Well most women want that (actually I'm 5'4" if I stretch and like 6' and better).
Intelligent, well-informed, naturally curious and passionate: Well heck, who wants stupid, purposefully ignorant, and lackluster? You aren't selecting his interests for him. If you said "must be a doctoral candidate and know everything about fashion!", you'd deserve some of the criticism. Heck "intelligent, etc" could be: watches TopGear on BBC, follows US politics, and can tell you the history of every US gun manufacturer.
Don't care about formal degrees: to me that says the opposite of "must meet my insane list of requirements"
Less than conventional life: My friend in NY knows lots of guys with Peace Corp time :)
Good shape: that can run the gambit from "will go skiing with me" to "marathoner". Nothing wrong with knowing you like to to be active in your spare time and want someone who isn't going to ditch you.

Not sure why you're getting all the derision. I have more respect for having a decent grasp of what would make you happy over the "OMG I'm single, and he's here and bought me a drink, I MUST DATE HIM OR I'LL BE ALONE!!!"

After reading your profile and agreeing with just about everything you wrote, I have one question. Would you be my future ex-girlfriend?

PillsHere: It's funny how there are always articles for women about how to please their man, but you never see articles for men on how to please women.
....

I just thought that was because men just don't care whether they can make a woman happy or not.

Lenny_da_Hog: CSB

Old girlfriend read one of these women's articles telling her that if a man really loves you, he will share the secret name he has given his penis, as all men give their penises names.

She wouldn't let it go. She kept asking over and over during the course of a couple of weeks, and each time I'd try to explain that no, I have never given my penis a name.

One night we were laying there, and she whispered the question one last time. "Please, just tell me its name."

"Okay," I replied. "It's Brenda."

She was stunned. "But... You gave it a girl's name? That's just WEIRD!"

I told her it was a joke. She wouldn't believe it. She broke up with me a few days later.

/CSB

Imma go out on a limb and say that you dodged a bullet there.

/that *was* a CS, B

Lol @ this thread....

"war between the sexes will never be settled. There's too much fratenizing between the enemy".

-Kissinger

mcwehrle: sycraft: Heck one thing I think many couples really should do a list on is chore responsibility lists. The reason is I've seen it as a point of contention far too often. One person, usually the wife, feels the other needs to "do more to help". However that is an extremely vague statement. Also there's not a way to know if that is a reasonable request until things have been enumerated..

This folds into what I have heard from so MANY of my female friends...that I want to just biatch slap them for....."he folded the towels WRONG"..."he didn't hang the shirts IN ORDER" (I don't even know what "in order means".....)

WOMEN....if the man does things....stop biatching. Just because it's not like YOU would do it, it's DONE. For Fark's sake, lighten the fark up!!!! Are the towels folded and put away? Yes? Then shut the FARK UP. Did the floor get swept? the dishes done? Yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP Did the yard get mowed? The snow shoveled? The trash out? yes? THEN SHUT THE FARK UP!!!!!!

FFS, if things get done, HE'S DOING HIS PART.

This is why I'm in favor of each partner having a "jurisdiction" (to steal a term from the Duggars). Here's the thing: If I am the one who NORMALLY folds the towels, then they're folded in a specific way so that they'll all fit properly in the linen closet. I know how to make them fit. So if he comes along and folds three towels and they're all folded wonky, they don't fit into the linen closet right and my whole "system" is screwed. BUT if his "job" is to fold and put away the towels, he'll eventually learn how to make them all fit into the linen closet. It might not be the way that *I* would do it, but it'll work okay. This way the ONLY thing the wife should have to worry about is whether it got done or not.

Tyranicle: However, if and when you decide to settle down, my only advice to you would be to not meet some guy in a bar.

Oh, I'm already settled down now, with a wonderful guy I met in a coffeeshop! And I still try to be honest with him! :)

Nogale: Well, apparently the ones who don't like me ;-)

There's no template. I don't care about looks, although I prefer that he be at least my height (5'7"). Has to be intelligent and well-informed, naturally curious with interests he's passionate about. Don't care about formal degrees. Prefer someone who's lived a slightly less than conventional life. Must be able to give me some space. No passive-aggressive types. It's best if he's in good shape, but I don't really care so long as he's not threatened by a woman who's in better condition than he is. Of course, there has to be mutual attraction, which is always an X factor.


Nogale: Well, the last guy I asked out (thanks to the prompting of Farkers, oddly enough) got back with his ex-girlfriend after our second date. Which would have been fine, if disappointing - I figure it had more to do with unfinished business between the two of them - but he wasn't up front about it.


I'm beginning to wonder if I have a split personality that posts on Fark as a female...

ph0rk: WhippingBoy: But what do I know? I'm just a lowly brain surgeon. I cannot begin to fathom the complexities of cooking fries.

Both are the occupations of technicians. Soon enough we will have machines to go "beep" when the tumor is fried, and the similarities will be more obvious.

You goddamn bastard, I just spewed coffee EVERYWHERE.

I would do the slowclap except now I need to mop up coffee.

Somacandra: shouldn't we have moved on from expectations of women "serving" men and men as the passive recipients of such service?

Not if they want to keep a man in the barn..... Sorry, but its true.

1) Men want to be served
2) There are women willing to serve them
3) You want to them to be monogomous, right?
4) You cant have it all, its just the way it works. Id have argued with me in my younger years, but hey, unhappy men cheat. Those that are going to argue just havent figured it out yet.

Telling women that they shouldnt have to make their man happy is the same as telling a man they dont have to make their woman happy. What would happen if he stopped trying to make you happy ladies?