Splinshints: Splish: So, no, but we're trying so gosh darn hard to prove that it is.

Are pencils cheese? According to current data, no, although recent evidence suggests that they may be. A meta analysis shows that both cheese and pencils are frequently solid, yellow, and found in most households. Further research is clearly indicated.

I'm going to need you to clarify your ignorance so I can mock you accurately. Are you implying that all genetic and brain structure factors that have been discovered are all just a long string of improbable coincidences, or are you implying that complex social behavior such as sexual preference can only be explain by nature OR nurture?

Or are you one of those dumb people who says stupid things like "it's just a theory"?

I'd hate to make fun of you for the wrong thing here...

I guess I'm one of those people who dislikes when things are stated as fact when the reality is there's as much or more evidence disproving the theory as there is supporting it. "Homosexuality is not a choice" is a theory, and a pretty poorly supported one at this point, at least as far as scientific (including psychological) evidence goes. If you say "There's some evidence that homosexuality may not be a choice" I'd agree with you. Hope that helps, mock away.

Next week will be the follow-up article: "Acrophobic? Maybe You're Tall."

poot_rootbeer: Proteios1: I have even responded with comments like, but your gay and were friends. I get more rhetoric in reply.

I know! Why would your gay friends be upset that you don't think they should have the right to marry or serve in the armed forces?!

If you're referring to other gay "politico issues" than those, please elucidate.

He may mean specifically gay politics. You know, who succeeds the the of Fabulosita and Butchesta in the Bright Lands.

Another Government Employee: The adage: "Methinks he protesteth too much" applies frequently here. It is not absolute, by any means. But if somebody really rails about something, I start looking for the opposite behavior.

Yeah, but sometimes you really just dislike a thing or a behavior or a lifestyle or get creeped out by it. Doesn't mean you have to actually /act/ on it, don't be a douche. But my wife hates spiders. Does that mean she actually, secretly wants to /be/ a spider?

That being said, people who've got nothing on their mind but what other people do in their bedrooms and think it's any of their business have got a screw loose. And Rick Perry is as gay as a blossomy tree full of monkeys in clown suits.

The linked study is weak.

This one is better, and reaches the same conclusion.

RedTank: Well... Hilter sure hated himself some Jews while at the same time technically being one himself....

Was not.

I'm not attracted to guys.

But I'm not attracted to girls either unless they wear leather from head to toe, chain me up, stomp on my balls with stilletto heels, stick their feet in my face, then spray on men's cologne, strap on a big black dildo and violate me while I pretend not to like it. That seems to be the only way I can get off. I don't remember ever choosing that, I must have been born this way.

I've also tried to choose mushrooms, I force myself to eat them once a day even though it makes me gag. I'm still trying to choose to like them, maybe someday.

There's a problem with these sorts of reports:

Homoerotic attraction ≠ homosexual

So a homophobe may or may not be a very closeted gay or he/she may just be exhibiting a fearful, rejecting response to his/her own normal homoerotic attractions.

I think everyone should have gay sex - as an adult, not as a teenager - at least once so that, like it or not, they can learn for themselves that it really isn't that big of a deal.

JackieRabbit: So a homophobe may or may not be a very closeted gay or he/she may just be exhibiting a fearful, rejecting response to his/her own normal homoerotic attractions.

I think everyone should have gay sex - as an adult, not as a teenager - at least once so that, like it or not, they can learn for themselves that it really isn't that big of a deal.

But you should also do it as a teenager, just so your gay teenaged cohorts can let off some steam. A lot of the overdramatic teenaged gay shiat is because many don't get the opportunity to healthily dip their wick like their straight counterparts and realize that sex is a healthy, normal thing.

It seems kinda obvious, really. I ask someone who is outspoken against gay rights why they are so vocal about it, and I get answers like "it's not natural." So I ask, do you think it's a choice, and they say yes. Ding! There you have it. Anybody who thinks sexual preference is a choice is admitting that they made that choice. The anger results from the realization that they can't make that choice.

God Is My Co-Pirate: Proteios1: One confusing point I have that I'd like sincere feedback on, if possible, is this:
I'm not gay. I don't dislike homosexuals. But because I don't automatically support all of the politico issues homosexual friends of mine have, I am automatically anti-. Which in itself seems to be a buzzword....but I'm antigay. I have even responded with comments like, but your gay and were friends. I get more rhetoric in reply. This is not much different than republican friends or democrat firms I have that we get to talking about politically charged topics and they all adopt a very, you're either for us or against us mentality.

Ah, I think I see your problem there.

My guess is: "English as a second language." But I could easily have gone with: "My school failed to teach me anything about spelling."

Which way were you leaning?

doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

I think the word you're looking for is xenophobia.

Splish: Splinshints: Splish: So, no, but we're trying so gosh darn hard to prove that it is.

Are pencils cheese? According to current data, no, although recent evidence suggests that they may be. A meta analysis shows that both cheese and pencils are frequently solid, yellow, and found in most households. Further research is clearly indicated.

I'm going to need you to clarify your ignorance so I can mock you accurately. Are you implying that all genetic and brain structure factors that have been discovered are all just a long string of improbable coincidences, or are you implying that complex social behavior such as sexual preference can only be explain by nature OR nurture?

Or are you one of those dumb people who says stupid things like "it's just a theory"?

I'd hate to make fun of you for the wrong thing here...

I guess I'm one of those people who dislikes when things are stated as fact when the reality is there's as much or more evidence disproving the theory as there is supporting it. "Homosexuality is not a choice" is a theory, and a pretty poorly supported one at this point, at least as far as scientific (including psychological) evidence goes. If you say "There's some evidence that homosexuality may not be a choice" I'd agree with you. Hope that helps, mock away.

But the opposing theory, that homosexuality is a choice, means essentially that the only thing stopping you from sucking dick is choosing not to. In a moment of weakness, the likelihood of you sucking dick is quite high.
Now, which theory sounds more appealing to you?

I have my own hypothesis on this situation:

Disclaimer: This hypothesis is based on anecdotal observed evidence only and I am no scientist or researcher.

Observation:
Men I have observed who bash "gays" tend to fall into 2 personality types. Alpha Male and Pseudo-Alpha male types. To clarify, the Pseudo-Alpha males act like alpha males when a true alpha male is not present, when a true alpha male is present, they tend to goad/instigate alpha males into a more aggressive behavior in order to participate in alpha male behavior they are denied by being in the presence of a true alpha male.

These A/PA male types usually only seem to project the aggressive negativity towards gays primarily at gay and bi-sexual men. When confronted with the idea of gay or bi-sexual women, they turn towards becoming stimulated or excited by the prospect of observing or participating in the sexual act by 2 women. The exception to this seems to be limited only to those males who consider themselves devout in a religion or ideology that has a negative view towards all gay human beings.

Theory:
This behavior indicates that these male types do not see being gay as actually being the problem. This behavior suggests that these males see being gay as an affront or violation of that which makes men "men". The A/PA types of males see sexual acts as a form of conquest rather than a mutual act of bonding. The A/PA personalities are fueled by conquest: sports, fights, careers, and women. They tend to see everything as a competition and thus treat those around them as competitors. Inserting a penis into someone is by their definition an act of conquest, the idea that their most prized possession has penetrated the body of another human being is the ultimate form of conquest. Thus, the idea that willingly letting another male insert themselves into their body is tantamount to surrendering to the competition, but worse. Since sex is to the A/PA male the second highest form of conquest (second to destroying or killing their enemies), then the only act worse to an A/PA male than letting another male insert themselves into their body, would be to surrendering their life to an enemy without a fight.

Conclusion:
The common projection of others that alpha and pseudo-alpha males are in fact gay themselves, is, in this observers opinion, a passive aggressive beta male tactic to reduce the alpha male position and lacks an understanding of the alpha male mind. The alpha male brain works in such a way that they are motivated by conquest, and the idea of willingly letting someone else conquer them, especially sexually, is the lowest shame of all...

Wow one of the more well-researched and actually interesting oped article on Slate. It would be nice to not label people that do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle as homophobes, though. They can have any number of reasons to not think it is normal, and that is their right. Both parties also should have the courtesy to not shove each others' values down the others throat (duh huh) and be able to live alongside each other. Just as a casual reader of MSM and such there needs to be a stop to the PC thuggery. Who(m)ever you decide to pork, don't let sex rule your life. It makes you a terribly boring person to the rest of the world outside of the person you are farking. Get a hobby. Be interested in something. The rest will fall into place at some point. Ignore the MSM as they seem to still be stuck on your sexuality in a "teehee" middle school way, and cheapen you as an individual, no matter who you love. Also, with about 1 in 6 'mericans carrying an STD, be choosy everybody.

I think we can all agree that this "study" is tainted with the researchers' own homosexuality and is therefore empirically irrelevant. They are just trying to justify their existence in academia and in the world to their parents and it absolutely reeks of horseshiat.

Splish: santadog: Homosexuality is not a choice.

Has this ever been proven? Or is it just one of those things that gets repeated so much that it's now a "fact"? Like "Homophobes are secretly gay."

Yes, it has been proven. Studies have shown that under double-blind sniff-tests, homosexuals report liking the smell of sweat from someone of the same sex versus the opposite. Since sweat is one of those things we tend not to go around sniffing and knowing consciously what gender sweat comes from, it demonstrated something unconscious that one cannot "choose" to like one gender over another. There's many studies like it, it's pretty much science fact now.

kimmygibblershomework: Wow one of the more well-researched and actually interesting oped article on Slate. It would be nice to not label people that do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle as homophobes, though. They can have any number of reasons to not think it is normal, and that is their right. Both parties also should have the courtesy to not shove each others' values down the others throat (duh huh) and be able to live alongside each other. Just as a casual reader of MSM and such there needs to be a stop to the PC thuggery. Who(m)ever you decide to pork, don't let sex rule your life. It makes you a terribly boring person to the rest of the world outside of the person you are farking. Get a hobby. Be interested in something. The rest will fall into place at some point. Ignore the MSM as they seem to still be stuck on your sexuality in a "teehee" middle school way, and cheapen you as an individual, no matter who you love. Also, with about 1 in 6 'mericans carrying an STD, be choosy everybody.

I think we can all agree that this "study" is tainted with the researchers' own homosexuality and is therefore empirically irrelevant. They are just trying to justify their existence in academia and in the world to their parents and it absolutely reeks of horseshiat.

you sound gay. (saved the trolls the trouble)

Digital Communist: doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

Xenophobe?


Only when it comes to these, appropriately enough:

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uncle Pim: Guess what? Having strong feelings (negative or positive) is a much bigger indicator of attraction than being neutral about something.

So people who get squeamish while watching SAW movies are secret murderers. Give up, you sound like a moron.

Humans (like all other animals) are programmed for four things: eating, sleeping*, screwing, and raising kids. Sometimes people fight for more, and sometimes people fight for better (whatever they think better is).

I don't see how decrying homosexuality affects eating or sleeping. You could think that it'll infect your kids, I suppose. Or you could be crazy. The third possibility is that it has to do with sex. Either you think you'll get more sex by going after gays, or you're gay and you're afraid that by not going after gays people will discover that you're gay, and therefore get less sex. Which is the same thing when you get down to it.

It's not whether you dislike gays or not. That doesn't make any difference. It's if you spend a lot of effort on something, and you aren't crazy, it has to do with one of those four things.

So to answer your question, disliking SAW movies doesn't mean anything. Spending lots of effort on banning SAW movies means at least one of:

-You become nauseous when you see or hear about it (food)
-It gives you nightmares (sleep)
-You're afraid your kids will see it and get scarred (raising kids)
-You're afraid that if you don't protest it you'll get less sex, most likely because people would see that you get turned on by it and not want to have sex with you (sex).

*Better sleep includes survival and safety. Tough to sleep if you don't feel safe.

doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

xenophobia?

Who can argue with a study called "he-who-smelt-it-dealt-it theory of sexuality"
I thought mind reading was just for 1-800 numbers and suckers?

Rootus: It seems kinda obvious, really. I ask someone who is outspoken against gay rights why they are so vocal about it, and I get answers like "it's not natural." So I ask, do you think it's a choice, and they say yes. Ding! There you have it. Anybody who thinks sexual preference is a choice is admitting that they made that choice. The anger results from the realization that they can't make that choice.

I always counter with "so, when did you choose not to be gay?".

Christians who believe that God condemns homosexuals to Hell MUST believe it is a choice.

If they ever could admit that it isn't, then they would have to admit that their God is an asshole that condemns people to Hell for something that they have no choice over.

Since they can't allow themselves to believe that they are choosing to worship an asshole, they absolutely must believe that I am choosing to be this way.
Or, they could choose to believe that the Bible, or their understanding of it, is not inerrant.

It's much easier to insist that I am choosing to be gay because it requires no thinking on their part, and no cognitive dissonance.

Digital Communist: doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

Xenophobe?

Most of the gay haters I know are extremely nice people and I doubt very much they are closet homos. There is one thing they seem to have in common though, which is: religion.


You see, I find that funny. Most of the gays I know (and most of the people who vehemently support them) are extremely nice people and I doubt very much they are closet homos. There is one thing they seem to have in common though, which is: religion.

So I'm not sure what your point is. Religious people sometimes hate gays. Religious people sometimes love gays. Religious people sometimes ARE gays. I know a number of gay ministers in fact, and even went to services at one church with a gay minister for a number of years. So your statement appears to be completely irrelevant, other than to say that you know a lot of religious people, which is hardly extraordinary.

Let me fix it for you.

Most of the gay haters I know are extremely nice people and I doubt very much they are closet homos. There is one thing they seem to have in common though, which is: hate.

/which you obviously share too
//blind hatred for any group makes you no better than any other hate group
///try love sometime, it does a body good.

The Jami Turman Fan Club: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Uncle Pim: Guess what? Having strong feelings (negative or positive) is a much bigger indicator of attraction than being neutral about something.

So people who get squeamish while watching SAW movies are secret murderers. Give up, you sound like a moron.

Humans (like all other animals) are programmed for four things: eating, sleeping*, screwing, and raising kids. Sometimes people fight for more, and sometimes people fight for better (whatever they think better is).

I don't see how decrying homosexuality affects eating or sleeping. You could think that it'll infect your kids, I suppose. Or you could be crazy. The third possibility is that it has to do with sex. Either you think you'll get more sex by going after gays, or you're gay and you're afraid that by not going after gays people will discover that you're gay, and therefore get less sex. Which is the same thing when you get down to it.

It's not whether you dislike gays or not. That doesn't make any difference. It's if you spend a lot of effort on something, and you aren't crazy, it has to do with one of those four things.

So to answer your question, disliking SAW movies doesn't mean anything. Spending lots of effort on banning SAW movies means at least one of:

-You become nauseous when you see or hear about it (food)
-It gives you nightmares (sleep)
-You're afraid your kids will see it and get scarred (raising kids)
-You're afraid that if you don't protest it you'll get less sex, most likely because people would see that you get turned on by it and not want to have sex with you (sex).

*Better sleep includes survival and safety. Tough to sleep if you don't feel safe.

Where do asexual people (those who have no desire for physical sex and are not attracted to either sex) fall into that theory? The fourth sexual orientation? (^)

LovingTeacher: doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

xenophobia?

Yes, if you hate foreigners, this means you secretly are one.

Proteios1: One confusing point I have that I'd like sincere feedback on, if possible, is this:
I'm not gay. I don't dislike homosexuals. But because I don't automatically support all of the politico issues homosexual friends of mine have, I am automatically anti-. Which in itself seems to be a buzzword....but I'm antigay. I have even responded with comments like, but your gay and were friends. I get more rhetoric in reply. This is not much different than republican friends or democrat firms I have that we get to talking about politically charged topics and they all adopt a very, you're either for us or against us mentality.

If you want someone to be denied equal rights, you're not their "friend."

PonceAlyosha: JackieRabbit: So a homophobe may or may not be a very closeted gay or he/she may just be exhibiting a fearful, rejecting response to his/her own normal homoerotic attractions.

I think everyone should have gay sex - as an adult, not as a teenager - at least once so that, like it or not, they can learn for themselves that it really isn't that big of a deal.

But you should also do it as a teenager, just so your gay teenaged cohorts can let off some steam. A lot of the overdramatic teenaged gay shiat is because many don't get the opportunity to healthily dip their wick like their straight counterparts and realize that sex is a healthy, normal thing.

Good point. But I just don't think teenagers have enough experience to accurately label themselves. They don't have the maturity to deal with the emotional ramifications of sex adequately. So they may have gay sex and really enjoy it. They may be awkward with the opposite sex. There may be other conflicts that they cannot parse. And decide that they must be gay. This happened to a friend of mine. It took him 25 years to come to terms with the fact that he really wasn't gay. But, but this time, he was 40 years old and a heterosexual virgin, and as you can imagine, this was very problematic for him. So experiment with sex as a teenager, but don't draw any hard and fast conclusions about sexual orientation.

derpdeederp: santadog: Homosexuality is not a choice.

Ive met some people that were born gay, Ive met others that decided to be gay or not later in life. I would say its both predetermined and a choice.

Look at the kinseys report, there are more than two polar decisions on sexuality in it.

No, you didn't. You met gay people in denial for the first part of their lives.

Why Would I Read the Article: I absolutely despise mushrooms. Does that mean I'm a closeted mushroom?

The term is "Fungaphobic."
And yes, you are.

Kar98: LovingTeacher: doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

xenophobia?

Yes, if you hate foreigners, this means you secretly are one.

Because we're closer to the Dark Side when it comes to minorities. We've still got some time with homosexuals.

Fear --> anger,
Anger --> hate,
Hate --> suffering,
and Vader's your uncle.

I_C_Weener: So, by this reasoning, if I find bestiality disgusting and feel the need to post that on a website, I'm a closet bestiality-ist? What if I find Salma Hayek to be disgusting? Can I get a date with her and her two assets?


Not homosexual, but we are willing to learn.

I think the difference is that bestiality is, you know... actually hurting something.

Biliruben: Kar98: LovingTeacher: doubled99: Why is the term :phobia" only used with an aversion to homosexuals?

Dislike of minorities=Hate
Dislike of homosexuals=Fear

xenophobia?

Yes, if you hate foreigners, this means you secretly are one.

Because we're closer to the Dark Side when it comes to minorities. We've still got some time with homosexuals.

Fear --> anger,
Anger --> hate,
Hate --> suffering,
and Vader's your uncle.

Do not WAAAAAAAANT!!!!

Wayne 985: derpdeederp: santadog: Homosexuality is not a choice.

Ive met some people that were born gay, Ive met others that decided to be gay or not later in life. I would say its both predetermined and a choice.

Look at the kinseys report, there are more than two polar decisions on sexuality in it.

No, you didn't. You met gay people in denial for the first part of their lives.

Or bisexuals who also believe that a person can only be straight or gay.

Cythraul: roadmarks: Christians who believe that God condemns homosexuals to Hell MUST believe it is a choice.

If they ever could admit that it isn't, then they would have to admit that their God is an asshole that condemns people to Hell for something that they have no choice over.

Since they can't allow themselves to believe that they are choosing to worship an asshole, they absolutely must believe that I am choosing to be this way.
Or, they could choose to believe that the Bible, or their understanding of it, is not inerrant.

It's much easier to insist that I am choosing to be gay because it requires no thinking on their part, and no cognitive dissonance.

I think religion is probably just a convenient excuse to dislike/hate gay people. I think the disgust comes from some 'other' source. But since it says somewhere in the Bible that it's wrong, they latch on to it and use it as a perfect weapon that's not very easily criticized (given religious freedom and such).

You may be correct for some cases as far as the dislike/hate aspect. I know the the plural of anecdote is not data, but I personally know more than a few Christians who, if they hate/dislike me do a really damned good job of hiding it. Who have, in fact, vocally supported my wife and I - and yet nothing I say or do will ever convince them that I did not actively *choose* to like other women.

As long as they are not actively working to continue to suppress my rights, I could really not care less whether they continue to believe it's my choice or not.

That is just the best understanding of that refusal on their part that I have been able to come to.