That's a nice looking jeep.

/in before domestic cars suck crowd.

It is a nice looking ride. I will say that. Not sure how it will hold up over time though. When I think of Jeep I think of beat up and half made of JC Whitney aftermarket parts.

Meh.

After repeatedly seeing Top Gear UK's reviews of Range Rovers, I'd far rather have.... A Range Rover.

got a loaded '11 Grand Cherokee as a rental on our last trip to WI. thing wasn't too bad, but damn, sucked parking that thing.

Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

fatalvenom: Znuh: Meh.

After repeatedly seeing Top Gear UK's reviews of Range Rovers, I'd far rather have.... A Range Rover.

Top Gear would never be biased to a British product. Ever.

Land Rover is great, if you want to spend twice as much as you would on a GC for something that breaks down every fifty feet (because the only well-engineered things in Britain are those left behind by the Romans).

Lost Thought 00: Did America suddenly forget about the gas prices again?

Old enough to know better: Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

Thank the entire Midwest, the state of Texas, and the South.

"But I need something that gets four wheel drive, hauls all my kids and stuff, and I can take road trip vacations in!"

"You know there are cars, wagons and minivans that do most, if not all of those things, right?"

"OH GAWD those things are so lame! I want something cool, like a truck!"

The SUV will be the biggest turd clinging to the bowl as long as Americans think wagon = family Truckster, and not this:

verbaltoxin: Lost Thought 00: Did America suddenly forget about the gas prices again?

Old enough to know better: Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

Thank the entire Midwest, the state of Texas, and the South.

"But I need something that gets four wheel drive, hauls all my kids and stuff, and I can take road trip vacations in!"

"You know there are cars, wagons and minivans that do most, if not all of those things, right?"

"OH GAWD those things are so lame! I want something cool, like a truck!"

The SUV will be the biggest turd clinging to the bowl as long as Americans think wagon = family Truckster, and not this:

[cache.jalopnik.com image 600x424]

An SUV is a vehicular comb over.

The family is trying to disguise that they are a family by avoiding a mini-van or a station wagon by driving a 'cool' SUV which only 'hunters' and 'outdoors man' use (just don't get 4WD, that is expensive).

And even with all the Rover's faults, it's still built better than the Jeep.

/Why yes, I'm English

TedDalton:
The family is trying to disguise that they are a family by avoiding a mini-van or a station wagon by driving a 'cool' SUV which only 'hunters' and 'outdoors man' use (just don't get 4WD, that is expensive).

When my Frontier shiat the bed I got a Highlander over Minivan.
- 4 Doors instead of slider.
- Slightly higher clearance
- Better kayak rack options
- Generally better towing capacity
- My other car is a Forester (already have the 'station wagon')
- AWD is better than 4WD based on my current needs
- Highlander was actually cheaper than cross shopped Mini-vans.
Hard to find a stripped down mini-van.
- Number of other things

Next vehicle will be a Diesel Wrangler, and my daughter will get the Highlander when she gets her permit.

verbaltoxin: Lost Thought 00: Did America suddenly forget about the gas prices again?

Old enough to know better: Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

Thank the entire Midwest, the state of Texas, and the South.

"But I need something that gets four wheel drive, hauls all my kids and stuff, and I can take road trip vacations in!"

"You know there are cars, wagons and minivans that do most, if not all of those things, right?"

"OH GAWD those things are so lame! I want something cool, like a truck!"

The SUV will be the biggest turd clinging to the bowl as long as Americans think wagon = family Truckster, and not this:

[cache.jalopnik.com image 600x424]

Riiight. Try taking that euro trash wagon or a lesburu outback on an old logging road and tell me how far you get. My 2011 4runner gets better gas mileage than my subaru and I can actually go offroad...real offroad, not just up to the ski hill on paved and plowed roads. That's the difference AWD "SUV's" (crossovers) built on car frames and real SUV's with 4WD on a truck frame.

I wanted to get the GC but couldn't justify spending more than what a new 4runner costs on any American SUV. From what I heard, the reliability on the new GC's isn't any better than before. I only considered buying one if I could get the Overland with the 3.0 CRD engine.

Znuh: And even with all the Rover's faults, it's still built better than the Jeep.

Land Rover MSRP 35 to 75K
http://autos.yahoo.com/land-rover/
Jeep MSRP 19K to 54K.
http://autos.yahoo.com/jeep/
Two completely different animals.
If you go off road a lot, get the Jeep. If you're worried about impressing Muffy and Biff at the yacht club, get the Land Rover.

Bring back the regular Cherokee, please. I don't need leather interiors in the vehicle I plan to get all farked up.

TedDalton: An SUV is a vehicular comb over.

The family is trying to disguise that they are a family by avoiding a mini-van or a station wagon by driving a 'cool' SUV which only 'hunters' and 'outdoors man' use (just don't get 4WD, that is expensive).

Pretty much. The new Ford Escape does little to hide this fact. The 2013 model barely looks like it isn't a minivan.

bhcompy: Bring back the regular Cherokee, please. I don't need leather interiors in the vehicle I plan to get all farked up.

Yes, yes, yes!
I miss my 95 Cherokee. Actual took quite a bit of looking to find one with a 5 speed.

Znuh: And even with all the Rover's faults, it's still built better than the Jeep.

/Why yes, I'm English

I would hope so considering its price.

89 Stick-Up Kid: verbaltoxin: Lost Thought 00: Did America suddenly forget about the gas prices again?

Old enough to know better: Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

Thank the entire Midwest, the state of Texas, and the South.

"But I need something that gets four wheel drive, hauls all my kids and stuff, and I can take road trip vacations in!"

"You know there are cars, wagons and minivans that do most, if not all of those things, right?"

"OH GAWD those things are so lame! I want something cool, like a truck!"

The SUV will be the biggest turd clinging to the bowl as long as Americans think wagon = family Truckster, and not this:

[cache.jalopnik.com image 600x424]

Riiight. Try taking that euro trash wagon or a lesburu outback on an old logging road and tell me how far you get. My 2011 4runner gets better gas mileage than my subaru and I can actually go offroad...real offroad, not just up to the ski hill on paved and plowed roads. That's the difference AWD "SUV's" (crossovers) built on car frames and real SUV's with 4WD on a truck frame.

I wanted to get the GC but couldn't justify spending more than what a new 4runner costs on any American SUV. From what I heard, the reliability on the new GC's isn't any better than before. I only considered buying one if I could get the Overland with the 3.0 CRD engine.


Why would I need to drive down an old logging road? So I could go smoke some Marlboros & shoot at things?

My driveway is about 1400' long & climbs 300' in the heart of the rust belt of NY state. It's got gravel in some places & just muddy ruts in others. My wife's Outback went up without losing grip even with a foot of snow. And not that we needed all of it - but it has 8" ground clearance.

And if you want a 'real' SUV (built on a truck frame) then why were you looking at the GC, which is uni-body?

BHShaman: TedDalton:
The family is trying to disguise that they are a family by avoiding a mini-van or a station wagon by driving a 'cool' SUV which only 'hunters' and 'outdoors man' use (just don't get 4WD, that is expensive).

When my Frontier shiat the bed I got a Highlander over Minivan.
- 4 Doors instead of slider.
- Slightly higher clearance
- Better kayak rack options
- Generally better towing capacity
- My other car is a Forester (already have the 'station wagon')
- AWD is better than 4WD based on my current needs
- Highlander was actually cheaper than cross shopped Mini-vans.
Hard to find a stripped down mini-van.
- Number of other things

Next vehicle will be a Diesel Wrangler, and my daughter will get the Highlander when she gets her permit.

the Highlander is a unibody based on the Camry, and its AWD system has a heavy FWD bias.

the Toyota Highlander isn't anymore of a "real" SUV than your Forester; i'm really questioning why you bothered getting one. You should have bought a 4Runner if you wanted something different.

i'm just going to leave this here....Range Rover vs Fiat Panda in offroading

Link

Thoroughly With Foil: And if you want a 'real' SUV (built on a truck frame) then why were you looking at the GC, which is uni-body?

The (non-Grand) Cherokee was unibody. I don't think there are many out there who'd argue against it as a "real SUV".

smimmy: TedDalton: An SUV is a vehicular comb over.

The family is trying to disguise that they are a family by avoiding a mini-van or a station wagon by driving a 'cool' SUV which only 'hunters' and 'outdoors man' use (just don't get 4WD, that is expensive).

Pretty much. The new Ford Escape does little to hide this fact. The 2013 model barely looks like it isn't a minivan.

That's an insult to minivans, which, though I could never bring myself to buy one, are at least good from a utilitarian perspective. The '13 Escape is a tall car. Which is sad, because the Yanks had the crossover idea right -- car-ish mileage with SUV-ish space. The Japanese and Europeans all seem to reverse that, and Ford is following their lead.

spqr_ca: Thoroughly With Foil: Why would I need to drive down an old logging road? So I could go smoke some Marlboros & shoot at things?

It's more fun when the logging road disappears and you're driving over trees. Something you get when you go camping in crown land in Northern Ontario, but not everyone is into that. Either way, I prefer the Wrangler over the other Jeep options not only because of the off-road prowess, but because it's a heck of a lot of fun to modify. Mind you, I'd only consider the GC to be an alternate, the rest are from marketing people and I hesitate to call them Jeeps.

// Love my Wrangler

Nobody in their right mind would dismiss the Wrangler's abilities . I've seen Cherokees and Grand Cherokees doing pretty amazing stuff off road, too. I'd put those three models up against anything. I don't know how the Liberty or Commander rate, but the Compass sure looks like a joke.

IMO, you can take the entire history of automobiles and really, honestly come up with three manufactures that are heads and shoulders above the rest when it comes to off road. And by that, I mean overall consistent lineup. Several car makers have come up with a particular model that does pretty good in the dirt, but for my money, the three that historically stand out are Toyota, Land Rover and Jeep. When Clarkson, Hammond and May were trucking across South America,(all time favorite episode) I'd love to have been trudging along with them in a CJ or Wagoneer or Cherokee or Wrangler.

Also, keep in mind that there are different...disciplines (for lack of a better word) to off roading that it's difficult for one particular vehicle to do it all. The nasty mug bog stuff tend to favor bigger rigs that may not be as useful on the Rubicon, for example. Or a rig built to spider up some brutal rock trail might not be the one you want to take through the deep mud. Those are purpose built vehicles, though.What I sayis that, over the last fifty years,if you wanted the best four wheeler off the showroom floor, your best bets would be Jeeps, Toyotas or Rovers.

My current and last cars were/are both jeep grand cherokees. 12 years on both combined and other then small maintenance stuff, never had a single problem with either one.

RickyWilliams'sBong: Thoroughly With Foil: And if you want a 'real' SUV (built on a truck frame) then why were you looking at the GC, which is uni-body?

The (non-Grand) Cherokee was unibody. I don't think there are many out there who'd argue against it as a "real SUV".

Precisely my point. If you'd look at 89 Stick-Up Kid's post, you'd see that I was questioning why he thinks a 'real' SUV needs to be built on a truck frame, even though he doesn't seem to realize the newest GC (& Durango) are both uni-body.

Thoroughly With Foil: 89 Stick-Up Kid: verbaltoxin: Lost Thought 00: Did America suddenly forget about the gas prices again?

Old enough to know better: Apparently gas prices went down this week.


"Gimme the biggest goddamn thing with four wheels ya got!"

Thank the entire Midwest, the state of Texas, and the South.

"But I need something that gets four wheel drive, hauls all my kids and stuff, and I can take road trip vacations in!"

"You know there are cars, wagons and minivans that do most, if not all of those things, right?"

"OH GAWD those things are so lame! I want something cool, like a truck!"

The SUV will be the biggest turd clinging to the bowl as long as Americans think wagon = family Truckster, and not this:

[cache.jalopnik.com image 600x424]

Riiight. Try taking that euro trash wagon or a lesburu outback on an old logging road and tell me how far you get. My 2011 4runner gets better gas mileage than my subaru and I can actually go offroad...real offroad, not just up to the ski hill on paved and plowed roads. That's the difference AWD "SUV's" (crossovers) built on car frames and real SUV's with 4WD on a truck frame.

I wanted to get the GC but couldn't justify spending more than what a new 4runner costs on any American SUV. From what I heard, the reliability on the new GC's isn't any better than before. I only considered buying one if I could get the Overland with the 3.0 CRD engine.


Why would I need to drive down an old logging road? So I could go smoke some Marlboros & shoot at things?

My driveway is about 1400' long & climbs 300' in the heart of the rust belt of NY state. It's got gravel in some places & just muddy ruts in others. My wife's Outback went up without losing grip even with a foot of snow. And not that we needed all of it - but it has 8" ground clearance.

And if you want a 'real' SUV (built on a truck frame) then why were you looking at the GC, which is uni-body?

For the diesel engine. I wasn't so concerned with the Unibody on the GC, you can still lift it and have tons of clearance. I wanted that engine for the torgue and gas mileage.

8" may seem like a lot for a suby but out west it's only going to get you to the trailhead, not the fun areas. Subaru's are not made for off roading. Their rally cars are, but those have $100k in off road upgrades. Taking a stock suby and putting suspension/tires/wheels is going to let you pretend to be a rally driver for a day, but long term you are going to destroy that car.

dumbobruni:

i'm really questioning why you bothered getting one. You should have bought a 4Runner if you wanted something different.

I didn't want something different.
I wanted something larger and with better towing capabilities.
I did not want RWD/4WD again (Yet).

Just explaining the difference between one form of SUV (Car based) and Mini-Van.
Mini-Van did not fit our family lifestyle, and we already had the station wagon.
The choice did not have anything to do with avoiding a minivan out of machismo.

89 Stick-Up Kid: 8" may seem like a lot for a suby but out west it's only going to get you to the trailhead, not the fun areas. Subaru's are not made for off roading. Their rally cars are, but those have $100k in off road upgrades. Taking a stock suby and putting suspension/tires/wheels is going to let you pretend to be a rally driver for a day, but long term you are going to destroy that car.

Subarus aren't for offroading, and never really were. Even rally racing has better road conditions than real offroading. They're for handling adverse condition, both road and weather, with the right equipment while still being a good road vehicle. I wouldn't take a Subaru out to Moab, but I would on trails and such.

8" may seem like a lot for a suby but out west it's only going to get you to the trailhead, not the fun areas. Subaru's are not made for off roading. Their rally cars are, but those have $100k in off road upgrades. Taking a stock suby and putting suspension/tires/wheels is going to let you pretend to be a rally driver for a day, but long term you are going to destroy that car.

In addition, any southwest states you drive through (California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, western Texas) will have moderate traffic roads that aren't paved, graded or anything. Four wheel or all wheel drive is a very, very good thing to have in snowy or rainy winter.

/Live a ways by Reno. Most people have trucks or Jeeps. Cars are for Hot August Nights.

12 years on, and still driving my '95 Cherokee sport (134,000 miles) The straight six is bulletproof. C(rappy) sb; Just last week I waxed it, and was admiring how well it still looked after all these years, just to have the 13yr old neighbor delinquent key it to metal the entire length of the damn thing. (I felt bad for these fatherless kids, and would always give them ice cream, and even took them to a wrestling match at the local arena last year) He happened to be leaving to live with another relative the next morning, so I never got a chance to thank his punk ass. farker