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(Some Guy)   Student drops F-bomb on principal. Principal's response? A) Suspend kid. B) Have cops tase and arrest him. C) Actually show empathy. BONUS: School's suspensions drop like a rock   (acestoohigh.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Walla Walla, new approach, California State Legislature, person of faith, education policy, high schools, Lincoln High, discipline  
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16993 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2012 at 11:57 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-01 02:08:52 AM  

This was a surprisingly good article.

Thanks for sending it in subby!

 
2012-05-01 02:12:02 AM  
No hero tag?
 
2012-05-01 04:49:50 AM  
Which means that principal will soon be out of a job. You can't act like a human being in the land of zero tolerance.
 
2012-05-01 06:01:19 AM  
Maybe I'm wrong, sounds great though, but this technique might only work if the student is expecting an angry shouting at from a person in authority. Once they're all used to sympathy and kindness it might swing back the other way again. Worth a try though, to see where it goes, I hope it works out.
 
2012-05-01 08:04:00 AM  
What a wonderful program! This is really inspiring, thank you, Subby.
 
2012-05-01 08:17:12 AM  
You mean treating kids like people and helping them work out their problems actually works better than treating them like cogs in a machine?

Well, color me farking shocked. :-/
 
2012-05-01 08:43:36 AM  
Pricipal . Caught sayof school that has stoped Suspendsing " See, told ya so" Is He dead or not. CNN Says yes. Aces Too High Looking for chads -OR- "hello, I am write single to salute and wait for answer again"
 
2012-05-01 08:49:34 AM  
So they're deeming the decision to stop suspending kids a success, because fewer kids are being suspended?
 
2012-05-01 08:50:02 AM  
But...without option B, where will I channel my populous anger?!
 
2012-05-01 08:58:39 AM  

Slaxl: Maybe I'm wrong, sounds great though, but this technique might only work if the student is expecting an angry shouting at from a person in authority. Once they're all used to sympathy and kindness it might swing back the other way again. Worth a try though, to see where it goes, I hope it works out.


But suspensions are being handed out for really dumb reasons nowadays. When I went to HS 25 years, you were suspended for drugs, weapons or extreme violence. Infractions like fighting, disrespect, disruption, cursing, etc were detention or in-school suspension. Expulsion was resolved for the truly incorrigible.

Now, it appears normal to suspend a child for cursing. I find it amusing how these "educators" are amazed that they get better results when they engage the students rather than avoid them.
 
2012-05-01 09:31:23 AM  
This article surprised me. It was really great subby. Thank you.
 
2012-05-01 10:06:31 AM  
Yeah, but that kind of approach takes, like, WORK, man! Zero Tolerance takes Zero Effort.
 
2012-05-01 10:18:47 AM  
This is wonderful. What rigid school officials miss is that school is only one part of what's going on with a kid. You don't know the rest. I remember one day my senior year. Things at home were going to hell in a handbasket, and I was pretty miserable. My grades showed it, as did my lack of homework/studying. It's really hard to focus on academic work while so much other attention-stealing crap is all around you. Anyway, my chem teacher walked up to my desk, in front of everyone, grade book open, and said, "I sure hope you don't need this class to graduate."

It wasn't awful what he said. But it was the last straw. Because I was a female, and being a "good girl" (not making waves) was my survival skill at that time, I didn't lash out. I cried. Silently. I sat through that whole farking hour with a blank stare and tears. An hour of tears is a lot of farking tears. And you know what? At the end of that hour, after watching me silently lose my shiat in public for an hour, that farking douchebag of a burnt out teacher let me walk out of his class and out of the school without saying a farking word. To me or to someone else about me. And had I had the energy or any idea how to go about it, I might not have come back the next day.

THIS is why I hate the whole "publicly humiliate the kids. It works and it's good for them." thing. You have no farking idea what else is going on in that kid's llife, and why they are acting how they are acting. No idea if your little humiliation for the sake of education will be that kid's last straw.

God, if this guy or anyone like him had taken me aside that day and shown ounce one of compassion, or hell, even asked me gently what was going on that I couldn't function academically anywhere near my potential, my life would probably have turned out very different. But no. I was from a "good" family in a "good" district, so I must just be an unmotivated slacker.

Good for this guy. Farking good for him.

Yeah yeah. CSS.
 
2012-05-01 11:19:12 AM  
In my day, you got sent to the assistant principal's office, and he had no reservations about paddling you into submission. Oh, did I mention the year was 1988? You seriously thought I was talking about 1948 for a minute, didn't you?

/he was also a Vietnam vet
//but let's see ANY school so much as pop a kid's hand with a ruler nowadays
 
2012-05-01 11:58:13 AM  
In junior high -I had a typing teacher that would send me to the principle's office for talking in class. This would be expected -except that the entire class was talking. I'm not kidding. The whole class was engaged in idle chit chat and I was expected to not engage with others -even if they talked to me.

I found out from another teacher (after I left that school) that this particular instructor was hospitalized for mental health issues.

But never a "fark you" out of my mouth. No, not me.
 
2012-05-01 12:00:20 PM  
You mean that zero-tolerance bullshiat that was forced on schools since Columbine doesn't work?

I'm shocked. Shocked.
 
2012-05-01 12:00:56 PM  
The conservative authoritarians will hate the notion.
 
2012-05-01 12:01:11 PM  
Before reading the article

TAZE 'EM, YEAH

After reading the article


Disappoint
 
2012-05-01 12:03:04 PM  
interesting

and we do need a culture change in many places, why not start there
 
2012-05-01 12:03:20 PM  
Good to know the snowflake approach has merit.
 
2012-05-01 12:06:00 PM  
Good. Maybe this in school suspension for a collar accidentally tucked inside my nephew's shirt bullshiat will stop.

Yes, Georgia. I'm looking at you.
 
2012-05-01 12:06:27 PM  
from TFA

"Since the 1970s, says a National Education Policy Center report published in October 2011, the suspension rate's nearly doubled for white kids, to 6%. It's more than doubled for Hispanics to 7%, and to a stunning 15% for blacks"

I was reading an article the other day about this kind of new approach to get down the embarrassing number of black suspensions. That's what is behind this.

It seems a radical notion but perhaps resegregated schools is the answer. One school could teach respect for oneselves and others and have certain degree of decorum. The other school would allow blacks to act how they like and have zero suspensions. Also white parent chaperones wouldn't be shocked how they dance at proms.
 
2012-05-01 12:08:21 PM  
After working with at-risk youth for a while, I have found few things are more meaningful than actually listening to someone. Heaven forbid we actually try and change things for the better.
 
2012-05-01 12:08:59 PM  

GooberMcFly: Pricipal . Caught sayof school that has stoped Suspendsing " See, told ya so" Is He dead or not. CNN Says yes. Aces Too High Looking for chads -OR- "hello, I am write single to salute and wait for answer again"


Looks like someone's batteries might need to be changed.
 
2012-05-01 12:10:23 PM  
Like many good ideas in public education, this one will die when conservatives get wind of it. One of the best concepts a few years ago was "restorative justice," in which a kid who was a victim of an action was placed in the room with the bully and two adult moderators. The kid who was victimized was encouraged to tell the bully how they felt about it, etc. My experience was that the kid who was bullied left feeling great and the bully generally burst into tears within a few moments, rarely showing aggression again.

/worked on elementary school levels at least
 
2012-05-01 12:10:33 PM  
My little brother got suspended for "rough housing.".....WTF. I like this sensible approach a lot, but sometimes what kids get in trouble for is just as ridiculous.
 
2012-05-01 12:10:44 PM  

DavidVincent: from TFA

"Since the 1970s, says a National Education Policy Center report published in October 2011, the suspension rate's nearly doubled for white kids, to 6%. It's more than doubled for Hispanics to 7%, and to a stunning 15% for blacks"

I was reading an article the other day about this kind of new approach to get down the embarrassing number of black suspensions. That's what is behind this.

It seems a radical notion but perhaps resegregated schools is the answer. One school could teach respect for oneselves and others and have certain degree of decorum. The other school would allow blacks to act how they like and have zero suspensions. Also white parent chaperones wouldn't be shocked how they dance at proms.


notsureiftrollingorstupid.jpg
 
2012-05-01 12:11:27 PM  
Walla Walla represent! I love the attention this approach is getting in educational circles.
 
2012-05-01 12:11:45 PM  
Late again!!
ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2012-05-01 12:11:48 PM  

FatMason: GooberMcFly: Pricipal . Caught sayof school that has stoped Suspendsing " See, told ya so" Is He dead or not. CNN Says yes. Aces Too High Looking for chads -OR- "hello, I am write single to salute and wait for answer again"

Looks like someone's batteries might need to be changed.


New here?
 
2012-05-01 12:13:22 PM  
Great article, subby.

A lot of teachers and admins I feel have this attitude where they must crush any sort of perceived disruption, disobedience, or challenge to authority, thereby lowering themselves and challenging the kids instead of trying to calm the situation down.

It's chest beating over stupid shiat and the admins feel like they are weak if they back down. It isn't a matter of weakness and these idiots forget that.
 
2012-05-01 12:14:34 PM  
Let's give them cake and let them watch tv in the waiting room too. I had shiat going on in my life, a mother with cancer among the worst of it, and an alcoholic father. No one outside of my household knew about it. I still treated everyone with respect. Most kids who would curse out a teacher are already farked in the head, you can't train someone to be what they aren't.

And it's sounds great. "fark you teach", then marched down to the principles office, the kid knows all's he has to do is a Cartman

"Iiiiiiiii'mmmmm sorry!"

static.tumblr.com

And he gets off.

Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.
 
2012-05-01 12:14:44 PM  

serial_crusher: So they're deeming the decision to stop suspending kids a success, because fewer kids are being suspended?


News flash:

School suspension rate drops like a rock when administration stops suspending students. More at 11!
 
2012-05-01 12:15:12 PM  
www.explosm.net
 
2012-05-01 12:20:56 PM  
This will never work. It's not penal (heh) enough for the masses that demand that someone, anyone, be punished. Could you imagine that spreading to work environments, police departments, the profitable prison centers? Oh god no. And those authoritarian "pro-life" types don't give a damn about troubled kids after they've been deposited in the proper container for assimilation. Don't kill them up front dammit, let us do it to them slow through capital punishment. Maybe they care in the abstract but not in the concrete "we need to adopt more troubled children instead of just standing in front of this damn clinic" sense. Just like breaking heads of that 99% troublemaker bunch, nobody could wait for that shiat to start. How DARE you try to question authority. Never going to go anywhere with that.

I have come to expect the worse from our people and our people never fail to disappoint.

I suspect my life would have been different if they hadn't tried so hard to get me to comply. At some point you jump off the bridge just because someone says it's a bad idea.
 
2012-05-01 12:22:13 PM  
Gee, "Hey man, what's going on with you?" works better than "YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH" with kids who by nature rebel against authority? Whoda thunk it?

Give the principal a raise. He seems to be one of the few who get it. Now if only he could give it to others schools maybe kids might actually learn some shiat and turn out to be decent human beings who know how to deal with the shiat life throws at them.
 
2012-05-01 12:24:27 PM  
They stopped suspending people then brag that suspensions are down.

How does math work again?

That's like saying Drew stopped drinking and now has fewer beer bottles to recycle.
 
2012-05-01 12:25:36 PM  
I went out with a primary school teacher for a couple of months and she had some hair-raising stories about some of her kids. You want complex trauma? Apart from the usual assortment of abusive drunks and negligent arseholes, one of the kid's father was also her grandfather. How the fark do you deal with that?
 
2012-05-01 12:26:08 PM  

hbk72777: Let's give them cake and let them watch tv in the waiting room too. I had shiat going on in my life, a mother with cancer among the worst of it, and an alcoholic father. No one outside of my household knew about it. I still treated everyone with respect. Most kids who would curse out a teacher are already farked in the head, you can't train someone to be what they aren't.

And it's sounds great. "fark you teach", then marched down to the principles office, the kid knows all's he has to do is a Cartman

"Iiiiiiiii'mmmmm sorry!"

[static.tumblr.com image 426x310]

And he gets off.

Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.


He got an In-School Suspension, which in that case was more effective than out-of school suspension because the parents could give a rats ass about the child in question. He was held accountable for his actions at school so it was a vastly more effective punishment. When home isn't home, this system seeks to make school a surrogate.

/or you know, read the article
//interaction WORKS
 
2012-05-01 12:26:32 PM  

serial_crusher: So they're deeming the decision to stop suspending kids a success, because fewer kids are being suspended?


That's what I read into it as well.

Most of the "troublemaker" kids won't respond this way (FTA):

Instead, Sporleder sits the kid down and says quietly:

"Wow. Are you OK? This doesn't sound like you. What's going on?" He gets even more specific: "You really looked stressed. On a scale of 1-10, where are you with your anger?"

The kid was ready. Ready, man! For an anger blast to his face...."How could you do that?" "What's wrong with you?"...and for the big boot out of school. But he was NOT ready for kindness. The armor-plated defenses melt like ice under a blowtorch and the words pour out: "My dad's an alcoholic. He's promised me things my whole life and never keeps those promises." The waterfall of words that go deep into his home life, which is no piece of breeze, end with this sentence: "I shouldn't have blown up at the teacher."


They'd rather punch him in the throat and walk out. They feel that talking about feelings is for the weak.

I do like the idea of talking to a student privately to see if there's any way to help them. They've been doing it like this in my wife's school for years. It does help defuse problems, but not always. Kids with constant problems behaving are sent to a school counselor to help resolve issues and possibly place the kids in special classes to help minimize disruptions.
 
2012-05-01 12:26:36 PM  

hbk72777: Let's give them cake and let them watch tv in the waiting room too. I had shiat going on in my life, a mother with cancer among the worst of it, and an alcoholic father. No one outside of my household knew about it. I still treated everyone with respect. Most kids who would curse out a teacher are already farked in the head, you can't train someone to be what they aren't.

And it's sounds great. "fark you teach", then marched down to the principles office, the kid knows all's he has to do is a Cartman

"Iiiiiiiii'mmmmm sorry!"

[static.tumblr.com image 426x310]

And he gets off.

Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.


You missed the part about the in school suspension, didn't you?
 
2012-05-01 12:26:44 PM  

hbk72777: Let's give them cake and let them watch tv in the waiting room too. I had shiat going on in my life, a mother with cancer among the worst of it, and an alcoholic father. No one outside of my household knew about it. I still treated everyone with respect. Most kids who would curse out a teacher are already farked in the head, you can't train someone to be what they aren't.

And it's sounds great. "fark you teach", then marched down to the principles office, the kid knows all's he has to do is a Cartman

"Iiiiiiiii'mmmmm sorry!"

[static.tumblr.com image 426x310]

And he gets off.

Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.


If only everyone could be so brave and strong as you! Also, the kid who mouthed off to the teacher did get detention.
 
2012-05-01 12:27:07 PM  

hbk72777: Let's give them cake and let them watch tv in the waiting room too. I had shiat going on in my life, a mother with cancer among the worst of it, and an alcoholic father. No one outside of my household knew about it. I still treated everyone with respect. Most kids who would curse out a teacher are already farked in the head, you can't train someone to be what they aren't.

And it's sounds great. "fark you teach", then marched down to the principles office, the kid knows all's he has to do is a Cartman

"Iiiiiiiii'mmmmm sorry!"

[static.tumblr.com image 426x310]

And he gets off.

Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.


You didn't read the article did you?
 
2012-05-01 12:27:58 PM  
He should run for President. Fine article!


Clone him and send one of the clones to Easton,MD where they suspended 2 lacrosse players for a 2inch knife and a lighter to trim netting. They were exonerated recently but not without substantial costs to the parents. I know one of the kids parents.

/not sure where I was going with this comment.
 
2012-05-01 12:28:16 PM  
Brilliant. I love it.
 
2012-05-01 12:28:55 PM  

hbk72777: Zero tolerance is one thing, where there is a misunderstanding or a rule is written in a way that would include an act that didn't meet the spirit of the rule. But flat out telling a teacher to F- off is grounds for at least detention. Sounds like this principal doesn't want to deal with the parents.


You missed the part where the kid still got in-school suspension, didn't you?

And the part where the school is still giving out plenty of suspensions and other discipline...
 
2012-05-01 12:29:05 PM  
images4.fanpop.com

/You give a child a license to swear, and they lose all intrest
 
2012-05-01 12:29:32 PM  

clivecusslerfan: serial_crusher: So they're deeming the decision to stop suspending kids a success, because fewer kids are being suspended?

That's what I read into it as well.

Most of the "troublemaker" kids won't respond this way (FTA):

Instead, Sporleder sits the kid down and says quietly:

"Wow. Are you OK? This doesn't sound like you. What's going on?" He gets even more specific: "You really looked stressed. On a scale of 1-10, where are you with your anger?"

The kid was ready. Ready, man! For an anger blast to his face...."How could you do that?" "What's wrong with you?"...and for the big boot out of school. But he was NOT ready for kindness. The armor-plated defenses melt like ice under a blowtorch and the words pour out: "My dad's an alcoholic. He's promised me things my whole life and never keeps those promises." The waterfall of words that go deep into his home life, which is no piece of breeze, end with this sentence: "I shouldn't have blown up at the teacher."

They'd rather punch him in the throat and walk out. They feel that talking about feelings is for the weak.

I do like the idea of talking to a student privately to see if there's any way to help them. They've been doing it like this in my wife's school for years. It does help defuse problems, but not always. Kids with constant problems behaving are sent to a school counselor to help resolve issues and possibly place the kids in special classes to help minimize disruptions.


Apparently not since the article in question concerns a last chance school attended by just the sort of students you mention. Every disciplinary metric dropped in frequency by about 50%. When a child is faced from every direction by people who don't care, they tend to respond when someone genuinely seems concerned about them.
 
2012-05-01 12:31:03 PM  
So do they still suspend kids for brining Tylenol to school? They may want to sit and have a chat about what anger issues they have that would make them bring over the counter medicine to school.

I'm curious if any kid has been suspended for bringing a homeopathic product to school.
 
2012-05-01 12:32:47 PM  
That was one of the most awesome and enlightening articles I've read in a long, long time. Explains a lot about someone I love very much... Thank you, subby
 
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