OK none of io9 things really make sense which is why point 5 is ALL THE ABOVE. The seasons might be magical or due to some other force not present in our world but the most obvious thing that it could be that is based in the reality of our weather and seasonal effects is that the planet is orbiting a star with a sporadic solar maximum and minimum.

Science has several hundred data points of orbiting objects and more than a fair understanding of the gravitational effects that happen across our Solar System. We only really have one data set for solar output and it has been by no means constant over time. So it is more likely about something about the star than about the orbit.

It could be explained by SCIENCE! but since I've seen plenty of magic already, I'm going to assume magic.

/This applies to LOST too, if anyone though everything could be explained by science then you were deluding yourself.

redmond24: Arya telling Tywin "Anyone can be killed" and looking at him stone-cold was the most chilling television I've seen so far this year

Agree fully.

Dog Welder: go2pedro: redmond24

And the woman playing Brienne of Tarth -- is this her first acting gig? You wouldn't know it from watching her.

Her name is Gwendolin Christie. She has been a favourite fan-casting of Brienne for years on the ASOIAF boards.

Faddy: OK none of io9 things really make sense which is why point 5 is ALL THE ABOVE. The seasons might be magical or due to some other force not present in our world but the most obvious thing that it could be that is based in the reality of our weather and seasonal effects is that the planet is orbiting a star with a sporadic solar maximum and minimum.

Science has several hundred data points of orbiting objects and more than a fair understanding of the gravitational effects that happen across our Solar System. We only really have one data set for solar output and it has been by no means constant over time. So it is more likely about something about the star than about the orbit.

It could be explained by SCIENCE! but since I've seen plenty of magic already, I'm going to assume magic.

/This applies to LOST too, if anyone though everything could be explained by science then you were deluding yourself.


We were hoping that it would at least be explained by the plot points established in the previous 4 years.

As numerous people have said: Magic did it. Maybe in the final season he'll go BSG and say it is all God's will for an epic internet meltdown.

Faddy: OK none of io9 things really make sense which is why point 5 is ALL THE ABOVE. The seasons might be magical or due to some other force not present in our world but the most obvious thing that it could be that is based in the reality of our weather and seasonal effects is that the planet is orbiting a star with a sporadic solar maximum and minimum.

Science has several hundred data points of orbiting objects and more than a fair understanding of the gravitational effects that happen across our Solar System. We only really have one data set for solar output and it has been by no means constant over time. So it is more likely about something about the star than about the orbit.

It could be explained by SCIENCE! but since I've seen plenty of magic already, I'm going to assume magic.

/This applies to LOST too, if anyone though everything could be explained by science then you were deluding yourself.

The problem with the scientific explanation is that it leaves something unexplained - how there are complex life forms on a planet with no regular or predictable seasons. In a fully mundane world like that, there would be few things more evolved than flatworms.

Winterwhile is coming.....


Best part????

Forever

jso2897: Faddy: OK none of io9 things really make sense which is why point 5 is ALL THE ABOVE. The seasons might be magical or due to some other force not present in our world but the most obvious thing that it could be that is based in the reality of our weather and seasonal effects is that the planet is orbiting a star with a sporadic solar maximum and minimum.

Science has several hundred data points of orbiting objects and more than a fair understanding of the gravitational effects that happen across our Solar System. We only really have one data set for solar output and it has been by no means constant over time. So it is more likely about something about the star than about the orbit.

It could be explained by SCIENCE! but since I've seen plenty of magic already, I'm going to assume magic.

/This applies to LOST too, if anyone though everything could be explained by science then you were deluding yourself.

The problem with the scientific explanation is that it leaves something unexplained - how there are complex life forms on a planet with no regular or predictable seasons. In a fully mundane world like that, there would be few things more evolved than flatworms.

The odd seasons are a relatively recent phenomenon, presumably long, long after everything had evolved.

The seasons being once regular is still in their oral history.

Old Man Winter: Dog Welder: go2pedro: redmond24

And the woman playing Brienne of Tarth -- is this her first acting gig? You wouldn't know it from watching her.

Her name is Gwendolin Christie. She has been a favourite fan-casting of Brienne for years on the ASOIAF boards.

Okay...so she does have a drama background. I think they found the one person physically capable of playing Brienne. Good work, HBO.

ThatGuyGreg: 0. It's fiction. Who gives a shiat?

Pretty much came in here to say that.

On a side note, for those of you who listened to the audio books read by Roy Dotrice, he was casted as the Pyromancer in the latest episode.

Also what has been seen cannot be unseen.

/the more you know

except its canon that magic.

Just because

GAT_00: I'm not familiar with the series, but assuming the article is right, seasons are not predictable, that says a ridiculously complicated Milankovitch cycle, combined with probably eccentricity and tilt. That should have long term predictable cycles though, say a 20-30 year pattern or something.

You need to watch the series. It's super awesome. Political intrigue, gratuitous violence, incredible acting, gratuitous nudity, spectacular writing, graphic violence, wonderful cinematography, graphic nudity, brilliant directing, and -- did I mention -- violence and nudity, both of which are in abundance.

meanmutton: GAT_00: I'm not familiar with the series, but assuming the article is right, seasons are not predictable, that says a ridiculously complicated Milankovitch cycle, combined with probably eccentricity and tilt. That should have long term predictable cycles though, say a 20-30 year pattern or something.

You need to watch the series. It's super awesome. Political intrigue, gratuitous violence, incredible acting, gratuitous nudity, spectacular writing, graphic violence, wonderful cinematography, graphic nudity, brilliant directing, and -- did I mention -- violence and nudity, both of which are in abundance.

And often happen at the same time, very graphically.

pudding7: TV's Vinnie: Superjew: George Martin has stated that the weather of Westeros is magical in nature and will be explained at the end of the series.

LINK

Translation: "Read Watch my series all the way through and make me a seriously rich muthfarker. Maybe I won't just punk you all by just having the last scene where the Starks are eating french fries while a Journey tune is playing."

"I said Maybe!"

ftfy

Either way, he's already a seriously rich muthfarker.

meanmutton: GAT_00: I'm not familiar with the series, but assuming the article is right, seasons are not predictable, that says a ridiculously complicated Milankovitch cycle, combined with probably eccentricity and tilt. That should have long term predictable cycles though, say a 20-30 year pattern or something.

You need to watch the series. It's super awesome. Political intrigue, gratuitous violence, incredible acting, gratuitous nudity, spectacular writing, graphic violence, wonderful cinematography, graphic nudity, brilliant directing, and -- did I mention -- violence and nudity, both of which are in abundance.

Except this last episode. I was beginning to wonder if turned on the wrong show.

/Bronn is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters in the show

Confabulat: lewismarktwo: Nope. I'd say a little smaller than western Europe but still modeled after GB. I

Things are often described in "leagues." Now admittedly "league" might be as relative as "year" in a fantasy world, but in our reality, a league is about 3 miles. According to the Song of Fire and Ice Wiki, it is 1000 leagues from the Wall to the Sunset Sea (3000 miles). And then we have the untold stretches past the wall.

Hard to imagine that as Great Britain.

FWIW, I just reread Book 5 a couple weeks ago. When Stannis starts his march to Winterfell, some one (can't remember who) talks about the distance from point A to point B in leagues and then again in miles, confirming a league is three miles in the books as well.

Now how bout they explain why the show is so horrible compared to the books.... might want to ask peter jackson for his input on it also..

Icetech3: Now how bout they explain why the show is so horrible compared to the books.... might want to ask peter jackson for his input on it also..

And here comes this guy.

Icetech3: Now how bout they explain why the show is so horrible compared to the books.... might want to ask peter jackson for his input on it also..

Dude, shut up.

Something struck me after watching the past 2 episodes of GoT last night. Did anybody else notice 2 instances in which characters corrected somebody's grammar? I found that rather odd, that's all.

ongbok: Icetech3: Now how bout they explain why the show is so horrible compared to the books.... might want to ask peter jackson for his input on it also..

And here comes this guy.

Be nice, it's probably his first troll. Bite and tug gently.

legion_of_doo: Superjew: George Martin has stated that the weather of Westeros is magical in nature and will be explained at the end of the series.

LINK

I didn't care about the Opera house bullshiat in Emostar Crylactica, and I don't care about why the seasons are messed up in Westeros.

/People (i.e. non-nerdwads) don't give a shiat about your farking cosmology.
/GET THE STORY MOVING ALREADY

If you just want to see tits and swordfights, go rent "Beastmaster." THe rest of us are actually interested in both the story and world it takes place in.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

To be fair... welcome to the Middle Ages. 14-year-old girls were constantly being "sexed up" by old guys, I mean just look at Afghanistan now where an 14-year-old girl who isn't yet the 4th wife of some wizened geriatric is considered a veritable spinster.

jso2897:
The problem with the scientific explanation is that it leaves something unexplained - how there are complex life forms on a planet with no regular or predictable seasons. In a fully mundane world like that, there would be few things more evolved than flatworms.

It needed to be said SO MUCH. Semi-reliable seasons are absolutely critical for plant life of the type always shown in GoT (ie. "Earth normal") to flourish. Hardy plant species could eke out a living by leaving seeds dormant through a decade-long winter, but mature trees would not survive, and the entire trophic web would collapse leading to mass extinctions every time you had an extra long winter as mentioned in the books. Never mind the temperate biome mammals that must hibernate or hoard food and reduce activity over the winter. Bears, squirrels etc., all 100% farked in GoT.

And if A WIZARD DID IT then it's so much worse because the extant species would have had no chance to evolve over millennia to tolerate the unpredictability.

In conclusion, A WIZARD DID NOT DO IT and this plot device can only be explained by nobody involved giving a fark about biomes or trophic webs or precession or elliptical orbits or whats-his-name's cycles.

FreetardoRivera: it is magic you idiot

this.

My first thought was "duh, the answer is magic!"

Dr J Zoidberg: meanmutton: GAT_00: I'm not familiar with the series, but assuming the article is right, seasons are not predictable, that says a ridiculously complicated Milankovitch cycle, combined with probably eccentricity and tilt. That should have long term predictable cycles though, say a 20-30 year pattern or something.

You need to watch the series. It's super awesome. Political intrigue, gratuitous violence, incredible acting, gratuitous nudity, spectacular writing, graphic violence, wonderful cinematography, graphic nudity, brilliant directing, and -- did I mention -- violence and nudity, both of which are in abundance.

Except this last episode. I was beginning to wonder if turned on the wrong show.

/Bronn is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters in the show

I think every season is going to have one episode where there's not much crazy sexyviolence. They need at least one episode that the child actors can do a commentary on for the DVD/BluRay, and all kinds of people would flip their shiat if the kids were on record commenting on Mellisandre's rack.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

In all fairness, in a medieval setting 14 is well into pedobear too-old territory.

/Juliet (of Romeo et Juliet) was 13 or 14?

No Such Agency: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

To be fair... welcome to the Middle Ages. 14-year-old girls were constantly being "sexed up" by old guys, I mean just look at Afghanistan now where an 14-year-old girl who isn't yet the 4th wife of some wizened geriatric is considered a veritable spinster.

jso2897:
The problem with the scientific explanation is that it leaves something unexplained - how there are complex life forms on a planet with no regular or predictable seasons. In a fully mundane world like that, there would be few things more evolved than flatworms.

It needed to be said SO MUCH. Semi-reliable seasons are absolutely critical for plant life of the type always shown in GoT (ie. "Earth normal") to flourish. Hardy plant species could eke out a living by leaving seeds dormant through a decade-long winter, but mature trees would not survive, and the entire trophic web would collapse leading to mass extinctions every time you had an extra long winter as mentioned in the books. Never mind the temperate biome mammals that must hibernate or hoard food and reduce activity over the winter. Bears, squirrels etc., all 100% farked in GoT.

And if A WIZARD DID IT then it's so much worse because the extant species would have had no chance to evolve over millennia to tolerate the unpredictability.

In conclusion, A WIZARD DID NOT DO IT and this plot device can only be explained by nobody involved giving a fark about biomes or trophic webs or precession or elliptical orbits or whats-his-name's cycles.



The erratic seasons started within the oral record, so presumably no more than 10,000 years ago, so the evolution argument is moot.

(as is this being anything to do with thinks like orbits or axis tilt. It's a consequence of some recent event)

Article was disappointing, which makes it a good thing that I expected as much. Somebody in a previous thread imagined they were like "mini ice ages", essentially Milankovitch cycles, although making it "complex" is just to hide behind the complexity.

Honestly, easiest explanation for a long winter is to imagine the Sun is much more luminous and the orbit is just farther out. Saturn's "year", for example, is 29 years; its seasons last ~7 years each. It would take a giant star to keep it warm, but such stars exist. Their lifespans are much shorter (tens of millions of years instead of billions), but FWIW I'd find it easier to believe magic was responsible for abiogenesis (after all this world has dragons) than affect the climate of an entire planet. For starters, it would skew the inhabitants' passage of time. It's hard to imagine the climate didn't have cultural influence beyond adjusting survival habits; it's more likely the "year" would be based on the climactic cycle than the planet's orbit.

This isn't exactly keeping me up at night, but it is fun to pick apart.

Faddy: It could be explained by SCIENCE! but since I've seen plenty of magic already, I'm going to assume magic.

Fair enough; magic is a giant black box. Anything that doesn't fit in science (at least in fiction) belongs there. The problem here is that assuming the seasons are due to magic messes with the reader's/viewer's sense of scale. Generally, suspension of disbelief goes hand-in-hand with assuming the effects of magic are localized -- a person can jump very high, a dragon can breathe fire -- but the mountains and oceans and seasons all obey physical laws. There's an implicit upper limit to just how much magic can accomplish unless something is very very VERY out of whack, which is why the evil overlord's tower is often surrounded by storm clouds. That the mere aura of the evil overlord can affect the weather is supposed to be HUGE. But if the very seasons are subject to magic and this is normal (which it would be in absence of some legend explaining why it is so), then all sense of scale goes out the window. You might as well have Dragonball Z "physics" where one guy can destroy a planet because the effects of magic have been firmly established on that scale.

TFA: Westeros used to have two moons, but "one wandered too close to the sun and it cracked from the heat"

Oh, ugh. . . *facepalm*

No Such Agency: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

To be fair... welcome to the Middle Ages. 14-year-old girls were constantly being "sexed up" by old guys, I mean just look at Afghanistan now where an 14-year-old girl who isn't yet the 4th wife of some wizened geriatric is considered a veritable spinster.

jso2897:
The problem with the scientific explanation is that it leaves something unexplained - how there are complex life forms on a planet with no regular or predictable seasons. In a fully mundane world like that, there would be few things more evolved than flatworms.

It needed to be said SO MUCH. Semi-reliable seasons are absolutely critical for plant life of the type always shown in GoT (ie. "Earth normal") to flourish. Hardy plant species could eke out a living by leaving seeds dormant through a decade-long winter, but mature trees would not survive, and the entire trophic web would collapse leading to mass extinctions every time you had an extra long winter as mentioned in the books. Never mind the temperate biome mammals that must hibernate or hoard food and reduce activity over the winter. Bears, squirrels etc., all 100% farked in GoT.

And if A WIZARD DID IT then it's so much worse because the extant species would have had no chance to evolve over millennia to tolerate the unpredictability.

In conclusion, A WIZARD DID NOT DO IT and this plot device can only be explained by nobody involved giving a fark about biomes or trophic webs or precession or elliptical orbits or whats-his-name's cycles.

The seasons didn't become unpredictable until humans already evolved and discovered magic.

dragonchild: Somebody in a previous thread imagined they were like "mini ice ages", essentially Milankovitch cycles, although making it "complex" is just to hide behind the complexity.

Er, what I wanted to say here is that this explanation is the best one among those offered, so kudos to the Farker who thought of it. But, not only does it leave a lot to be desired, I seriously doubt GRRM was even close to thinking his cunning plans this thoroughly. His understanding of basic astronomy is shamefully bad.

dragonchild: Article was disappointing, which makes it a good thing that I expected as much. Somebody in a previous thread imagined they were like "mini ice ages", essentially Milankovitch cycles, although making it "complex" is just to hide behind the complexity.
Oh, ugh. . . *facepalm*



Why ugh`? It's a medieval science type explanation, not an actual fact of what occurred.

Go-go-gadget Pedantry!

/sums up the thread

dragonchild: dragonchild: Somebody in a previous thread imagined they were like "mini ice ages", essentially Milankovitch cycles, although making it "complex" is just to hide behind the complexity.

Er, what I wanted to say here is that this explanation is the best one among those offered, so kudos to the Farker who thought of it. But, not only does it leave a lot to be desired, I seriously doubt GRRM was even close to thinking his cunning plans this thoroughly. His understanding of basic astronomy is shamefully bad.

And the fact GRRM flat out said it is magic that is causing the seasons to behave like they are.

the opposite of charity is justice: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

In all fairness, in a medieval setting 14 is well into pedobear too-old territory.

/Juliet (of Romeo et Juliet) was 13 or 14?

I just love that THIS is the point where realism comes into play.

Screwy climate, dragons and the undead? It's magic!

Impossible architecture? It's a fantasy setting.

80 year-olds sexing up 13 years olds, who they're probably related to? It's accurate for the medieval setting.

Disposable Rob: the opposite of charity is justice: Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:
/Martin would've put a 14 year old girl getting sexed up by an old man in the intro had he made it.
//Dude should have a seat over there for his creepy obsession with girls of that age.

In all fairness, in a medieval setting 14 is well into pedobear too-old territory.

/Juliet (of Romeo et Juliet) was 13 or 14?

I just love that THIS is the point where realism comes into play.

Screwy climate, dragons and the undead? It's magic!

Impossible architecture? It's a fantasy setting.

80 year-olds sexing up 13 years olds, who they're probably related to? It's accurate for the medieval setting.

I think the point is more "If you're going to condemn GRRM for including it you should condemn every noble of the middle ages as well." Yes it is icky but so is child killing, fratricide, incest and forced castration. All of them are in ASOIAF but you never hear complaints about those things.

Obviously, the planet is orbiting a late-stage star producing inconsistent energy, has a wobble in its axial tilt that is further affected by large planetoids wandering into its gravitational sphere on a common but irregular basis, and is experiencing an ecliptic effect caused by a super-large gas giant in a nearby orbital path between the planet and the sun.

/no clue, just started watching the show last week
//that dwarf can act, man

Carth:
I think the point is more "If you're going to condemn GRRM for including it you should condemn every noble of the middle ages as well." Yes it is icky but so is child killing, fratricide, incest and forced castration. All of them are in ASOIAF but you never hear complaints about those things.

I'm only halfway through Clash of Kings, but it seems to me that GRRM doesn't go into nearly the same detail of fratricide, castration, etc as he does into someone feeling up a pubescent girl. It goes from merely "icky" into "this is kind of pervy" terrirtory. I had to laugh at Eddard's execution as when it happened was the equivalent of a camera turning away from the actual act. Had is been a young girl being molested instead we would have had a few paragraphs describing it. I continue to read it, though...

Dog Welder: Old Man Winter: Dog Welder: go2pedro: redmond24

And the woman playing Brienne of Tarth -- is this her first acting gig? You wouldn't know it from watching her.

Her name is Gwendolin Christie. She has been a favourite fan-casting of Brienne for years on the ASOIAF boards.

Okay...so she does have a drama background. I think they found the one person physically capable of playing Brienne. Good work, HBO.


And just think... you'll get to see her naked, too!

/semi-spoiler
//waiting on the fight scene where Brienne is wearing a dress...

Jerkwater: Obviously, the planet is orbiting a late-stage star producing inconsistent energy, has a wobble in its axial tilt that is further affected by large planetoids wandering into its gravitational sphere on a common but irregular basis, and is experiencing an ecliptic effect caused by a super-large gas giant in a nearby orbital path between the planet and the sun.

/no clue, just started watching the show last week
//that dwarf can act, man

I'm of the opinion rather than Westeros being the only place that is magically farked up, the entire world is bludgeoned by freaky climate and Essos is the only place on the world that's consistently habitable. Southerys is stated to have no culture, and beyond Asshai is mentioned to be uninhabitable, so it's probably the entire planet goes through cyclical diebacks except for that one verdant strip that can consistently recolonize sanitized areas. That's reflected pretty well in Westeros' history, where every so often a new wave of Essosian conquerors wipe out the weakened kingdoms.

EyeballKid: Something struck me after watching the past 2 episodes of GoT last night. Did anybody else notice 2 instances in which characters corrected somebody's grammar? I found that rather odd, that's all.

(spoiler warning for this post for episode 4 - not sure if that's necessary in the thread, but I don't want to be a dick)

The only one I remember was Stannis being a grammar Nazi, toward Ser Davos. There was a brief less/fewer conversation regarding his knuckle bones. I thought it was a very clever way of encapsulating just what a tightass pain in the rear Stannis is. Yes, you're about to assassinate your BROTHER with a demon-monster-baby, but you still feel it necessary to correct someone's grammar. Such a hardnosed ass.

Speaking of, Davos, why didn't you kill that crazy biatch when you had the chance? Just say there were guards or something, you were alone with her!

Disposable Rob: Carth:
I think the point is more "If you're going to condemn GRRM for including it you should condemn every noble of the middle ages as well." Yes it is icky but so is child killing, fratricide, incest and forced castration. All of them are in ASOIAF but you never hear complaints about those things.

I'm only halfway through Clash of Kings, but it seems to me that GRRM doesn't go into nearly the same detail of fratricide, castration, etc as he does into someone feeling up a pubescent girl. It goes from merely "icky" into "this is kind of pervy" terrirtory. I had to laugh at Eddard's execution as when it happened was the equivalent of a camera turning away from the actual act. Had is been a young girl being molested instead we would have had a few paragraphs describing it. I continue to read it, though...

Without spoilers the level of violence and talks of castration increase in future books (don't even think they talk about it until ASOS)

Bungles: Winter is always described as a physical thing that spreads from the north. I presume that the final explanation for the seasons is that there is something terribly unpleasant in the far far north that, when active, spreads cold and zombie death, and when asleep the cold and zombie death contracts. Probably, yes, something to do with dragons.


The answer isn't going to be "oh yeah, wobbly axial tilt".

There's already a sense of this from what we've been able to read about the cosmology of R'hllor worship. According to Mellisandre, the far north is home to R'hllor's enemy, a god of cold and death, and the two have been locked in a cycle of war related to the waxing and waning of their powers for thousands of years.

Bungles:
The erratic seasons started within the oral record, so presumably no more than 10,000 years ago, so the evolution argument is moot.

Carth: The seasons didn't become unpredictable until humans already evolved and discovered magic.

My point is that makes it so, so much worse. Even the flatworms are probably farked if they evolved in a normal seasonal cycle and this crazy shiat just started happening a few thousand years ago. That's an eye blink in evolutionary terms, not nearly enough time for more than a handful of species to adapt.

PonceAlyosha:
it's probably the entire planet goes through cyclical diebacks except for that one verdant strip that can consistently recolonize sanitized areas. That's reflected pretty well in Westeros' history, where every so often a new wave of Essosian conquerors wipe out the weakened kingdoms.

A much better explanation, with actual scientific credibility. Species surviving in "habitable islands" do recolonize after major climate changes.

No Such Agency: Bungles:
The erratic seasons started within the oral record, so presumably no more than 10,000 years ago, so the evolution argument is moot.

Carth: The seasons didn't become unpredictable until humans already evolved and discovered magic.

My point is that makes it so, so much worse. Even the flatworms are probably farked if they evolved in a normal seasonal cycle and this crazy shiat just started happening a few thousand years ago. That's an eye blink in evolutionary terms, not nearly enough time for more than a handful of species to adapt.

PonceAlyosha:
it's probably the entire planet goes through cyclical diebacks except for that one verdant strip that can consistently recolonize sanitized areas. That's reflected pretty well in Westeros' history, where every so often a new wave of Essosian conquerors wipe out the weakened kingdoms.

A much better explanation, with actual scientific credibility. Species surviving in "habitable islands" do recolonize after major climate changes.


Well.... they mainly didn't adapt most likely. There's little alive north of the wall but trees and the odd wolf. Everything in the general north around Winterfell looks like tundra. That's little different to ice age events that have occurred on Earth.

SteelDraco: The only one I remember was Stannis being a grammar Nazi, toward Ser Davos. There was a brief less/fewer conversation regarding his knuckle bones. I thought it was a very clever way of encapsulating just what a tightass pain in the rear Stannis is. Yes, you're about to assassinate your BROTHER with a demon-monster-baby, but you still feel it necessary to correct someone's grammar. Such a hardnosed ass.


He did it also when dictating the letter to announce the Incest Angle:

"Jaime the Kingslayer, call him what he is."

"Make that Ser Jaime the Kingslayer. He earned his knighthood, whatever his other faults are"