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(NPR)   A Christian Minister comes to find out just how Christian her community is after she comes as an Atheist   (npr.org) divider line 147
    More: Florida, American Atheists, United Methodist Church, Southern Baptist, Teresa MacBain  
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27811 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 6:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 06:26:53 PM
21 votes:
"I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

But he says he adores his wife and defends her right to disbelieve. "That's why I spent 23 years in the Army. That's why I'm still a police officer. We have freedom of speech and freedom of thought. And God never forced anybody to believe, so who am I to step up?"


Good man.
2012-04-30 06:30:32 PM
15 votes:
"One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god. Take Jesus as your savior, I was told, and you can smile as He hurls countless others into a lake of fire, including the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Anne Frank and all those friends and neighbors of yours who don't "believe" in him. I found this idea pagan and ugly. Don't try to be superior to God, I was told. His ways are mysterious. Well, I wanted my ways to be moral, merciful, kind and just. I may fail every day at this but I want to try. This is a magnificent world we live in; surely it wasn't made solely for a fiery apocalypse. To love, to serve, to witness, to try to do something meaningful - that is what makes sense to me"
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion which does a great deal of harm in the world. Christians in America spend millions trying to influence legislation and elections to limit the rights of women and the rights of gays. They do not leave the rest of us alone. They do not respect the rest of us. I fear this. I wish those who call themselves Christians, and claim to be loving and good, would take some real moral responsibility for their religion and the things it has done historically and the things it is doing now. ~ Anne Rice
2012-04-30 06:36:57 PM
14 votes:
wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
2012-04-30 06:31:37 PM
11 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


In a society where atheists are trusted less than lawyers and politicians, it is perfectly reasonable for atheists to gather for social and moral support.
2012-04-30 06:15:00 PM
11 votes:
People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.
2012-04-30 06:32:43 PM
9 votes:
I ask myself... how can I tell there is a God? Well, I asked God for a sandwich. None appeared. Mere moments later, I made myself a sandwich. It was delicious.

Now, was that divine inspiration from a benevolent god, that drove me to make a sandwich? Or was it convenience that brought me, my ability to make a sandwich, all the necessary ingredients, motivations, etc that allowed for such a thing to come to pass? Or perhaps something else entirely?

I don't know. As of now there is no test for God. While others argue and persecute and kvetch about it, I will have a sandwich.
2012-04-30 06:11:04 PM
8 votes:
I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.
2012-04-30 06:26:39 PM
7 votes:

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.


Considering how rampant the Prosperity Gospel is in American Protestant Churches, I'd say they're unwittingly worshipping Garl Glittergold.
2012-04-30 06:48:03 PM
6 votes:

Mixolydian Master: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

For many people, coming out as an atheist is a huge paradigm shift. Many people may scorn them, and like anything else that is potentially life altering, it helps to have a support channel. What's the deal with gay people coming out of the closet, and needing support? Just put the dick in your mouth and be happy.


If you're serious about your question,
People are spending a lot of money slandering gays, paying for legislation to deny gays the same rights as other taxpayers.
If I want to be able to vote, drive a car, live in the house I'm paying for, marry and/or adopt, I need to be fighting every single day.
When I was married to a woman, all of this was taken for granted.
Think about that; same man, just as much within the law, neither more or less threatening as a person.
Come out and say, "I like guys. I've known I liked guys since I was ten. I just made myself say it in the mirror, and I'm not going to lie any more."
Poof! Can't marry or adopt anymore. A dozen TV channels are suddenly preaching that God shouldn't have created me.

Should I just find a convenient dick an use it for a pacifier?
Nope.
I'm not content to let the politicians and preachers win.
Took an oath once to protect the United States from such people.
Don't look for me in the bath houses; look for me on the front lines.
2012-04-30 06:40:16 PM
5 votes:
I was raised in a religious family, but grew up basically atheist. I say basically because I don't believe in anything like the concept of "God" in the Christian sense of the word.

Although there may well be forces at play in the universe, I don't think they are necessarily sentient or have a good/evil duality to them. They just are, and don't require our acknowledgement or worship.
2012-04-30 06:37:14 PM
5 votes:

skinnycatullus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird

I'd never go to a convention, but "coming out" makes sense because it is often a very difficult step to take. If I were gay, I'd much rather tell my parents that than that I am an atheist. For lots of us, there is overwhelming pressure from family regarding religion. For me, it isn't a question of whether they would shun me (they wouldn't), but it would absolutely destroy them emotionally to know I don't believe anymore.


My family was never too big of a deal. My grandfather supported whatever decision I made with my life, and my grandmother thought it was just a phase. It's the community that got me. They flat out turn their backs on you like you're the most despicable thing to ever grace their presence. Not sure what I would've done without a few close friends and the internet. I don't know that I would've gone to a convention without those things, but I can't say for sure.

These things aren't for everyone, but they certainly help a lot of people. They're something that isn't considered normal or socially acceptable. They've hidden or denied it for whatever reason, and this is their way of saying 'Fark you all, this is who I am and I'm proud of it.' Again, not for me, but more power to them.
2012-04-30 06:32:16 PM
5 votes:
I come as an atheist at least once a day.

Twice if I'm bored.

It's hard to come as a christian.

The guilt. The shame of my own body. Knowing that god is murdering a kitten because I can't stop touching the dick he gave me.

Hard to come as a christian. So instead I just interfere with women's rights and social progress instead of jerking it when I feel christian. By the looks of it. I'm not alone.
2012-04-30 06:31:00 PM
5 votes:

skinnycatullus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird

I'd never go to a convention, but "coming out" makes sense because it is often a very difficult step to take. If I were gay, I'd much rather tell my parents that than that I am an atheist. For lots of us, there is overwhelming pressure from family regarding religion. For me, it isn't a question of whether they would shun me (they wouldn't), but it would absolutely destroy them emotionally to know I don't believe anymore.


If she came out as gay, she might have gotten less hate.
2012-04-30 06:27:39 PM
5 votes:

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


I don't understand it either, but for someone who has been blind their entire life, it might be really helpful. With just coming out to her Christian community, she'd probably be driven to suicide. At least she got a positive affirmation before she got showered with hate from good Christians.
2012-04-30 06:41:11 PM
4 votes:

Delay: Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Hey, are you a Mormon? Apostasy befell all. At least that's their story.


i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days. God is information, can't stop the signal and information must be free.
2012-04-30 06:37:24 PM
4 votes:

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


You really don't understand atheism. Lets say you like the the football team of the Cowboys. It's not that as an atheist you root for another team. For 99% of atheists It's like you no longer watch football at all.

That's a lot different.
2012-04-30 06:36:47 PM
4 votes:
I think her congregation has a right to be upset. Its tough finding out someone you trusted as a guide and leader, whose teachings and wisdom you followed for a long time, was living through doubt, and eventually lies, and never trusted you enough in return to be honest.

Also the way it happened wasn't so cool. The ethical thing to do would have been to speak to her flock first. Apologize for not being honest sooner, be honest with her feelings, express her love for them and the value she still placed in their relationships. Not go somewhere else and publicly announce it, then get upset at the backlash.

I'd be willing to bet if she went back to her old community in a little while, some of the hurt would have dissipated, and the good ones among the flock would be open to continuing relationships.

As far as the skills and employment, that part sucks... if she could find the money for school you'd think she could slide over to a councilling type job easily enough.
2012-04-30 06:36:44 PM
4 votes:

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


What I find weird are the people who were supposedly atheist who then found religion. Their stories about finding faith are odd and are usually rooted in some shoddy belief system of what they think Atheism is.

"I was sitting in the park thinking about the Great Flood and realized that atheism, the belief that you hate God, doesn't answer the questions behind the Great Flood. Right there I became a Christian."

It's like certain Christians take one for the team, and become phony reconverts claiming to be Atheist and then switching back over.
2012-04-30 06:28:04 PM
4 votes:

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird


I'd never go to a convention, but "coming out" makes sense because it is often a very difficult step to take. If I were gay, I'd much rather tell my parents that than that I am an atheist. For lots of us, there is overwhelming pressure from family regarding religion. For me, it isn't a question of whether they would shun me (they wouldn't), but it would absolutely destroy them emotionally to know I don't believe anymore.
2012-04-30 07:42:05 PM
3 votes:
Haven't RTFA yet, but my guess is that the church congregation's reaction went something like this:

4.bp.blogspot.com
iaanhughes.files.wordpress.com
www.sally-apokedak.com
www.inquisition-art.net
2012-04-30 07:36:47 PM
3 votes:
Questions for all of the people who think this woman is a jerk and a thief:

Do you love the company for which you work with all of your heart and soul? Is the company's mission statement written on your heart? Do you try to glorify the company with every movement you make?

No? You're just like her.
2012-04-30 07:30:20 PM
3 votes:
What a jackass. She has been lying to people who have trusted her for a long time. Now only that she calls them publicly "sheep" and "blind" and is upset when they are upset with her? And why? Is it because she still wants their love and approval? No, she wants a good paycheck. Nothing more. She even then insults people working minimal wage jobs, practically saying it's beneath her and that's why she can't give up her job.

Like I said, what a jackass.

And some people in this thread are saying, "good for her" and looking their noses down her church. Look, just because you are an atheist doesn't automatically mean you have to stand by every atheist out there. A jerk is a jerk. And this lady is a jerk.
2012-04-30 07:26:24 PM
3 votes:
The Unitarian Society in Northampton had a large adjustment when Victoria Safford came to the pulpit, because the previous minister had been an atheist. There was grumbling in the congregation that she was a little "too theist" for some of them.

Boils down to it: it's not what you believe, but what you do with that belief.

Believe in a higher power, or not, but do live out what you believe in. Act your conscience, and not just what you're told. Question and poke and prod, and live those beliefs.

One of our assistant ministers told a great story when she was given the pulpit towards the end of her training period. At school, they were to have a softball game after service the next Sunday, and it was going to be Atheists vs the Theists. She was unsure really what side she was going to be on. She believed in deeds, in actions, in lessons learned from across the many belief systems, but during her training, she was still more than a bit agnostic. It was a week of soul searching and thought, and it caused her a great deal of questioning her own beliefs.

When Sunday came around, she had her answer ready, and a lot more grounded when she went out back to the field.

Then the minister looked at the group. "This side's the Theists, the rest are on the Atheists team. Now play ball!"

In the end, does it matter so much what you believe, so long as you can get out there and play ball with all your heart?
2012-04-30 07:12:17 PM
3 votes:

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.


I wish I had the blind faith to rape children, subjugate black people, facilitate the holocaust, mutilate children's genitalia, claim that you can buy your way into heaven, treat women as second class citizens, and believe in talking snakes.
2012-04-30 07:10:00 PM
3 votes:
There are a whole lot of ministers just like her.

NYT did a piece on them a while back.

All the politicizing of the faith is driving more and more people away from Christianity.

I'm not assuming they are all turning atheist, but I know more than a few people ashamed to call themselves Christian these days. They still do though. Cultural inertia is a biatch to overcome.
2012-04-30 06:58:09 PM
3 votes:

Delay: Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.

I don't know what that means. But, since my kids (three very white kids in college) are earnestly converting me to Buddhism, I appreciate everybody's ideas.

Seriously, what is a technocratic buddist?


god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.
2012-04-30 06:56:22 PM
3 votes:

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.


i105.photobucket.com

(Jesus was [mostly] a pretty cool philosopher, and if the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes were the heart of Christianity, I would probably be a Christian. Paul was a dickweasel who took a good idea and turned it into a tribalist death cult, and his modern-day descendants would gladly crucify Jesus again for being a "hippy libtarded OWS Union thug.")
2012-04-30 06:55:11 PM
3 votes:

Dimensio: Her fears were obviously unfounded, as is evident by the abundant offers for employment that she now enjoys.


Do you live around North Florida? It's a completely founded fear; everywhere you go, everyone you meet is a phoney christian who will berate you in a heartbeat for not proclaiming that you believe in Jesus. Everyone wants to proselytize. They'll stop being your friend if they find out your beliefs. They'll find a way to fire you. And the backwoods part of it all is that many of them really don't believe it themselves, but it's just the way things are 'supposed to be.' I can't imagine being a pastor who sees the light.

It's gotten better, but it's still really bad.
2012-04-30 06:48:08 PM
3 votes:

LeglessDog: Personally, I agree with some of her angles, but don't know that I'd "renounce" Christianity altogether--just the more bureaucratic sects (such as Catholicism) .


Her argument really is linguistic. In America, at least, the word "Christian" has come to mean "aggressive, faux persecuted, gay bashing, hypocritical right-wing theocrat." A person of faith can reasonably want to disassociate herself from that moniker.
2012-04-30 06:40:02 PM
3 votes:
Head up, brave lady. You got support
2012-04-30 06:38:36 PM
3 votes:
"So what the hell am I supposed to do?" she asks in one recording, her voice sounding desperate. "Really, the options are work at something like Starbucks or McDonald's - and even there they're going to ask those questions. I could even clean houses and not make a great amount of money - but at least nobody would be asking me questions."

Unitarians need preachers too. There's even atheist chaplains nowadays. Just because you're an unbeliever doesn't mean you can't still be a minister.
2012-04-30 06:38:27 PM
3 votes:

feckingmorons: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Yes it seems a bit unethical to be a minister if you don't believe what you are doing. It is more than a job it is a religious calling, if you don't believe in the religion it seems you should leave the job.


It's like if you were a politician but think government can never help people... Oh wait that's the Republican party!!!
2012-04-30 06:35:18 PM
3 votes:
I've heard of this kind of thing. They need to see what they like about ministry, get a degree in that field and get a secular job. If they like running the operation, they can get an administrative job at a small business. If they like the soup kitchen, they can go into food services. If they like counseling, they can becomes social workers or licensed family therapists.

But they need to doff the clerical garb and get out of the business. It's no fair to anyone and it's unethical to be an atheist telling people stories about the invisible sky wizard.
2012-04-30 06:33:40 PM
3 votes:
I'm far too ignorant to say one way or the other if there is a deity in the universe, I lean heavily towards 'no'; but I've seen too much crazy shiat in my life to discount it completely. Then again, it's some of that crazy shiat I've seen in my life that also turned me from faith in a deity in the first place.

No true god would allow the things I've seen, however things in life can also be so intricate and beautiful that it makes me ponder if there is a higher intelligence. At the end of the day, I look to science first.
2012-04-30 06:33:12 PM
3 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


For many people, coming out as an atheist is a huge paradigm shift. Many people may scorn them, and like anything else that is potentially life altering, it helps to have a support channel. What's the deal with gay people coming out of the closet, and needing support? Just put the dick in your mouth and be happy.
2012-04-30 06:32:21 PM
3 votes:
2012-05-01 10:47:56 AM
2 votes:
i47.tinypic.com

"I'm currently an active pastor and I'm also an atheist"


And this is a problem, why, exactly? Where does it say that you have to actually use a product to sell it to people?

\\vegetarian
\\ask me about my chicken recipes
2012-05-01 12:19:25 AM
2 votes:
I can argue Christianity/religion being farked from the oddest of perspectives.

This is perspective A1 for me:

So the whole deal is that you are "good" on this earth, and then get to go to heaven, right? Heaven is a joyous place where you will be euphoric for eternity. Hell is eternal damnation. I consider heaven just as scary as hell, and I don't know anyone has even challenged it from that perspective.

I don't think many of you have spent time at 3 AM thinking about infinity. Infinity is the scariest concept in the universe.

So I'm there in heaven, FOREVER, and I can't check out?

Do you know what eternity is? Think you can't stand working 8 hours as if it was forever?

Imagine being stuck somewhere forever and ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever ever and ever, AND KEEP GOING!

Can you smoke crack in heaven? If that's bliss to you, you should be able to. But you can't check out once you get there. You're stuck, whether you like it or not.

And on infinity, we all sit and pontificate on the afterlife, not enough of us pontificate on the before life. I didn't exist for billions of years, I wasn't cognizant of it, and that's fine by me. You live, you die, and the universe doesn't give a shiat. Life is beautiful because there is a beginning and end.
2012-04-30 07:55:38 PM
2 votes:

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: s2s2s2: There = heaven.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt. (And I am interested to see your reasoning.) How is Anne Frank in Heaven according to "the bible."

//You didn't capitalize "bible". Is that your loophole?

I'm on my phone, about to head out. Just google "goats and sheep parable",


Okay, okay.

1) It seems that Anne Frank is not in Heaven YET. She has to wait until the Last Judgment.

2) The Ten Commandments are null and void. Good to know.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to prepare for Sunday so I can go to work and worship Xenu while carving a picture of God out of driftwood with the label "goddamn" that I will attach to a dagger I lifted from Cabela's that I can use to stab my mother in the heart after making her watch me bang my neighbor's hot wife who is holding her cell phone to my face so I can tell her husband it isn't me.
2012-04-30 07:55:14 PM
2 votes:
2012-04-30 07:50:27 PM
2 votes:

Spaz-master: Because an internal viewpoint requires community consensus, right?
Freaking atheist are exactly the same crap they despise.
If your confidence in your own beliefs on faith are so weak that you need a community support group, then you have no confidence at all.

[www.ffxivcore.com image 411x377]


Atheists don't despise the community (most atheists don't really despise religion, anyway). Most human beings require social interaction and acceptance in some sort of community; it's not surprising to see people gather together because of their belief or lack thereof. Plus, it's not always easy to admit to being an atheist; there can be an awful lot of social pressure to remain "faithful" or just keep it hidden. I don't think it was right for her to continue to give sermons and function as a minister, though. Granted, it's not exactly an easy switch to some other job.
2012-04-30 07:41:26 PM
2 votes:

LaughingRadish: Corvus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

You really don't understand atheism. Lets say you like the the football team of the Cowboys. It's not that as an atheist you root for another team. For 99% of atheists It's like you no longer watch football at all.

That's a lot different.

In my experience, there are two basic types of atheism. To build upon your analogy, some are convinced that football doesn't exist, The other type acknowledges that football exists, but is unimportant. I am unwilling to be completely materialistic given all the weird stuff I've seen happen.


Your analogy breaks down because football does actually exist.

Your analogy also breaks down because it's logically impossible for an atheist to acknowledge the belief in the existence of a deity.
2012-04-30 07:37:12 PM
2 votes:
I take all this with a pretty big grain of salt. It's not that I find it difficult to believe that many of the people in her community would be jerks. Just that exaggerating how badly she was treated psychologically validates and confirms her new beliefs and earns her sympathy. It also makes for a more compelling story. If you read one of the source links, it seems that she's been making the lecture circuit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that many atheists who attend atheism conventions show up to hear about how Christians have treated someone reasonably. Also, conspicuously missing is any clear indication of how her former congregation responded. Surely at least one of them would have been willing to talk to NPR, but instead it seems that we are just supposed to take her word for everything that happened.
2012-04-30 07:35:04 PM
2 votes:

Cagey B: No, atheism is *not* a religion.


Still hiding behind that one, eh? It's just a belief that some defend like a religion.
/same thing
2012-04-30 07:32:08 PM
2 votes:

Yuri Futanari: My family doesn't know I'm an atheist and I don't ever want them to. I don't fear their reaction, they'd accept me and love me regardless. I don't want to tell them because they'd want to understand and would ask me about it, and I don't want any of my answers to insert even a sliver of doubt into their own faith. They're not evangelicals, their faith is private and doesn't hurt anyone (they support gay marriage and women's rights, for example) - who am I to even take even a little bit of spiritual comfort away from them?

I'm a reluctant atheist obviously, I wish I could have faith in something so that in 50 or 60 years when I'm on my deathbed I'm calm and looking forward to what's next. Instead I'll be laying there in stark terror knowing that it's all over and there's nothing I can do about it. I wouldn't wish atheism on anyone. Hell I wish I could be agnostic at the least.


Why fear death? It's just another (final) part of life. Just as your life has depended on the deaths of other life (plants, animals, bacteria, etc), so will new life depend on your death.

I'd fear immortality. What would a person do once they had done all that there is to be done? Eternal boredom doesn't sit to well with me.
2012-04-30 07:31:45 PM
2 votes:
I admire this woman's courage to openly admit that she was no longer qualified for her job. As to the few "haters" out there, their un-Christian
behavior is their own problem. Many people are distrustful of atheists. They are perceived as morally lacking, dishonest, scheming and downright evil in some cases. See Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Atheists have, for years, intentionally confronted the faithful, challenging their cherished beliefs and institutions and bringing petty lawsuits against religious institutions. Many of them are small minded, mean spirited attention seekers who have as their stated goal the destruction of religious faith in the United States. The upshot of this is that all atheists tend to get tarred with the same brush. Well, he who lays down with dogs ...

Clearly, this woman is no theologian. Many people of faith, even clergy, have had a crisis of faith. You can believe in the message of Christ even if you don't accept the Bible as literal. However, one who does not accept the Nicean Creed as to the nature of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit is not qualified to preach the gospel in an traditional setting. Perhaps she could look into Unitarianism.

I do note that her "atheism" as a creed has provided her with no comfort. I am pleased to note however that some of the atheist organizations were able to provide her with some counsel, comradeship and financial support. Churches are not the only sources of these benefits apparently. So, lets give credit where credit is due.
2012-04-30 07:25:46 PM
2 votes:
My family doesn't know I'm an atheist and I don't ever want them to. I don't fear their reaction, they'd accept me and love me regardless. I don't want to tell them because they'd want to understand and would ask me about it, and I don't want any of my answers to insert even a sliver of doubt into their own faith. They're not evangelicals, their faith is private and doesn't hurt anyone (they support gay marriage and women's rights, for example) - who am I to even take even a little bit of spiritual comfort away from them?

I'm a reluctant atheist obviously, I wish I could have faith in something so that in 50 or 60 years when I'm on my deathbed I'm calm and looking forward to what's next. Instead I'll be laying there in stark terror knowing that it's all over and there's nothing I can do about it. I wouldn't wish atheism on anyone. Hell I wish I could be agnostic at the least.
2012-04-30 07:24:33 PM
2 votes:

ds615: Heard her on the radio. What an idiot.
Does she really not see that the Atheist group is just another religion?

Meh. Atheist is just the new gay.
Tattoos were it once, then they became okay.
Then long hair or earrings on men.
Then gay. Now that that is accepted, it's time to become something else so people will look down on you and you can feel all underdoggy.

So it goes.


Quoting Vonnegut doesn't absolve you of that much derp.
2012-04-30 07:20:42 PM
2 votes:

austin_millbarge: Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.


She's respecting his beliefs as much as he is respecting her. It doesn't sound like he's the type that will keep bringing it up that he's praying for her. Sounds like a very good man.
2012-04-30 07:16:32 PM
2 votes:

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.


Atheists work with knowledge, facts, and science, not faith.

Many Christians lack morals and lie to people so they'll keep getting paid.
2012-04-30 07:15:30 PM
2 votes:

ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)?

She doesn't have to move but I'd imagine faith is a pretty important quality for a baptist minister to have. She should probably have stepped out of the role.

She was a methodist pastor. And when you go through that radical of a change, converting out of it is a brutal battle, and the way you go about it doesn't always live up to Farkistan standards.

It's just to keep getting paid. Must be nice to essentially dupe a congregation just to get a paycheck - not helping the image, that one.


From TFA:

She began applying for jobs, but when prospective employers asked why she wanted to leave the ministry, she didn't know what to say.

I didn't know you were required to provide all the gory details about why you left your last job. Just say "personality conflicts" of some such vague BS.

"I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," she says. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you."

Lolwut? She doesn't seem to fully grasp this whole atheist thing very well.
2012-04-30 07:14:55 PM
2 votes:

Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."


If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.
2012-04-30 07:08:16 PM
2 votes:

ph0rk: I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,


that's merely a common reference point for the divine. the only way humans can really grasp eternity is within a religious framework. or higher mathmatics, but that gives me headaches.
2012-04-30 07:04:01 PM
2 votes:
Let's see, god gave us free will, but if we don't believe in him and accept him, we go to hell and burn forever. He could show himself to the world and then there would be no nonbelievers. But, he doesn't. He would rather play a chickenshiat game of believe or live eternity in pain. Sounds like a swell guy.
2012-04-30 07:02:07 PM
2 votes:

ph0rk: If god is knowledge what are false knowledge, pseudoscience, and disingenuous propaganda?


steps upon the path. obstacles thrown in the way that a true believer must evaluate and overcome.

nobody said it would be easy. But true knowledge is worth the effort. deliberate distortions are exposed and the path eventually becomes clear.
2012-04-30 07:00:02 PM
2 votes:

Chthonic Echoes: If you want to keep it within the Christian mythos, believers in the Prosperity Gospel are clearly the deluded worshipers of a thinly veiled Mammon.


yup.

I don't understand why the prosperity gospel people aren't burned at the stake for heresy.
2012-04-30 06:59:57 PM
2 votes:
Like most other 'Christians', they only practice what they preach when around lik-minded company.
2012-04-30 06:59:15 PM
2 votes:

Pocket_Fisherman: If you want to tell your story, you first, move, second, get another job, third THEN come out and say it took you several decades to figure out what a thinking person should before they turn 16.


What? She has to move to become an open atheist? She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)? Maybe she was late to the club, but that ain't how life works.
2012-04-30 06:49:09 PM
2 votes:

3 G's: As an agnostic, I can certainly understand why she would "lose" her faith, but I don't understand why one would continue to live the lie once one has come to the realization that the various "gods" were created by men, in the image of man.

By continuing to "minister" she wasn't being true to herself, or her "congregation", so, in that she was wrong IMHO.


That is pretty black and white. She had been raised and had grown up in the environment. It was all she knew. To suddenly become someone wholly different overnight? That is a tough thing to do. The fear of change and the unknown is a pretty powerful thing.
2012-04-30 06:48:50 PM
2 votes:

UNC_Samurai: Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Considering how rampant the Prosperity Gospel is in American Protestant Churches, I'd say they're unwittingly worshipping Garl Glittergold.


If you want to keep it within the Christian mythos, believers in the Prosperity Gospel are clearly the deluded worshipers of a thinly veiled Mammon.
2012-04-30 06:45:34 PM
2 votes:

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God",


upload.wikimedia.org

Speak for yourself. For some it really is a religion onto itself.

Great book--disillusioned WWII vet starts anti-God ministry in the South, becoming an antipriest.
2012-04-30 06:44:56 PM
2 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


I agree with the first one in part: it's one thing to profess something, it's quite another to reveal that you're now the polar opposite of what you were, especially as a spiritual leader.

But the thing is, if you're going to call yourself (and take credit for being) a Christian, as the complainers obviously do, then making "pretty hateful" comments and locking her out without discussion (the latter of which the Church Super was responsible for)...no. That's one thing that tends to get glossed over when talking about religion: it's not that I don't understand emotional reactions, it's not that people don't have the basic right to their actions... but are you a Christian or not? If you're going to define yourself as something, you should be that thing.

That's the point of not taking The Lord's name in vain... it's not something as childishly shallow as saying "Jesus Christ!" when you're stuck in traffic. It means you don't invoke God/Jesus/Joe Pesci/Whoever strictly as an ego boost. A lot of these people are obviously calling themselves Christian for the social status and personal peace of mind, not because they believe in the principles. Again, I get the emotional response, but if you're a Christian, you can't do that. That's like calling yourself a vegetarian and eating a cheeseburger for lunch every day. Put your money where your mouth is. Hypocrisy is not OK, no matter what happens... especially if it's just (let's face it) hurt feelings and not, say, hitting someone with a car.

The latter part of your post... not sure why you'd bring up the "religion of no god," since the basic act of "coming out" has no religious connotations. Support communities serve a definite purpose, especially as openly hostile as many people can be towards atheists. I'm not gay, so I wouldn't presume to compare the two in terms of societal backlash, but I can definitely say that I know a lot of people who would have an easier time accepting me as gay than they would as an atheist.
2012-04-30 06:44:37 PM
2 votes:
I'm an avowed Atheist, and as jaded as I am towards religion in general, I couldn't Minister to a group of Christians.

Even if I were making serious bank doing it.

/Why yes, I DO have a sense of right and wrong.
2012-04-30 06:42:53 PM
2 votes:
wondermark.com
2012-04-30 06:38:32 PM
2 votes:

Theeng: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

Some people tend to obsess over things, atheism is no different from other beliefs in that regard. Some people simply take it further than others.

Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.


God can live with the knowledge that one less person believes in him, I'm sure they can too.
2012-04-30 06:38:21 PM
2 votes:

engine: Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

I don't think the existence of anything is determined by the number of people that profess belief in it. (Where's your change now?!? amiright?!1)


I think you're looking at it the wrong way. its entirely possible that 'god' is indeed talking to a lot of people...its just that it's not Christ thats doing all the talking. If I were a pagan god looking to pick up worshipers, the evangelical movement would suit me just fine. put on a new outfit, slick by yer hair and preach fire and war...you'll fit right in, no problem.
2012-04-30 06:37:17 PM
2 votes:

EdNortonsTwin: "The questions haunted her: Is Jesus the only way to God Why does God need a starship?"




kunochan.com
2012-04-30 06:37:09 PM
2 votes:
Well, seeing as her church was going against scripture for the onset, I don't find this surprising.

1 tim 2:12
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
2012-04-30 06:36:24 PM
2 votes:
A minister turned atheist does not deserve ridicule and spite. They deserve love and compassion.

/I mean, were you people even paying attention in church!
2012-04-30 06:30:03 PM
2 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


Some people tend to obsess over things, atheism is no different from other beliefs in that regard. Some people simply take it further than others.

Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.
2012-04-30 06:28:12 PM
2 votes:
Considering this happened in the Panhandle of Florida, I imagine that her congregation welcomed her new beliefs with an open mind.

/not really
2012-05-02 12:54:58 PM
1 votes:

Coelacanth: [i249.photobucket.com image 618x383]


Sarah Jessica Parker has a comic book now?
2012-05-01 02:40:46 PM
1 votes:

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I don't think children under 18 years of age should be allowed to go to church. It gives impressionable people the wrong impression setting them up for a life of cognitive dissonance.


so very this. i got to sit in on a session where we were getting it hammered into our heads that we had to push parents to increase regular attendance for the kids, and how we needed to schedule group activities to 'reinforce faith'. the point to all of this were studies shown to us in horror about how if a child isn't fully converted by adulthood, the odds of them staying religious as an adult were exceedingly thin (like less than 10% to maybe 15%, tops)

the real scary part was the activities suggested were mainly ones designed to either repeat lessons while doing repetitive physical activities like jumping rope, or group activities thinly disguised as exercises in peer pressure or in isolation of players for deviance from norm. in other words, not in any way dissimilar from what we were taught in the military to recognize and resist as textbook classic brainwashing techniques. great, so if we don't brainwash them before they are capable of critical thinking, they reject our teachings?
if anything, that seems like a good reason to reevaluate the teachings themselves.
2012-05-01 11:21:15 AM
1 votes:

Millennium: I'm torn on this. On one hand, you're right that she shouldn't have been leading them on, and that she needed to leave the field: to assert that clergy are charlatans while continuing on as a member of the clergy is hypocrisy defined. On the other hand, what exactly should she have done?


There is a phrase that you can utter that can cause you to lose your friends, family, and standing in the community: "I don't believe in god (anymore)." For someone whose entire life is built on not only believing in, but actively promoting that god, it's a pretty terrifying cliff to jump off. Saying you don't believe generally comes with a "no backsies" clause.

Millennium: Part of the thing is that there is no "it" when it comes to atheism. Indeed, the fact that there isn't an "it" is, to many, almost as important as the assertion that there isn't a God. For some -perhaps for many- their atheism really does become a "Religion of No God": something I've heard called strong atheism, positive atheism, gnostic atheism, or any number of other adjectives. For others, there really is a lack of belief: what were once called agnostics, though that term isn't really in favor today.


The term "Agnostic" as a position of belief was an invention of Huxley, and it's unnecessary and confusing. The people who call themselves "Agnostic" are generally skittish atheists who try too hard to distance themselves from their actual position.
2012-05-01 11:18:53 AM
1 votes:

SirEattonHogg: I heard this on NPR in the car


Does NPR even work outside of cars? Not real sure it does.
2012-05-01 06:52:39 AM
1 votes:

Gothnet: I don't understand how people can have belief, for so many reasons. I'm just saying that for those that do, it must be easier in some ways.


i have seen that a lot with the people i used to counsel. they would be paralyzed without it. i don't think they were strong enough to NOT believe. they just couldn't handle it. not just the mortality aspect, but the lack of clearly defined answers.

the universe is a complex and scary place. anything capable of making it small enough and simple enough to fit into some peoples minds is an extremely attractive proposition.
2012-05-01 04:22:43 AM
1 votes:
Churches are a thin veneer of love, covering a deep well of hatred. Scratch the surface and you'll be covered in the hatred. It doesn't take much.
2012-05-01 03:03:19 AM
1 votes:
I'm a Secular Humanist too. Welcome to the club of the informed, educated, compassionate and clear of mind.
Liberating isn't it - when you aren't governed by dogma and fiction.
2012-05-01 12:58:50 AM
1 votes:
For those of you surprised at the actions of her flock, let me clue you into something;

First for full disclosure let me say that I am an active pastor. I am also almost completely an athiest by this point. Its not that uncommon, the job will do that to you. In fact, it is indirectly probably the reason I have been promoted to a leadership position in my church. Most of the upper leadership is that way, unclouded and undistracted by the doctrinal minutiae. Not the only church that is like either. Put true believers in charge and they have no larger perspective.

With that out of the way, if her flock were actually at all truly spiritual, they would be worried about her soul and try to bring her back into the fold after losing her way. Instead she is cast out with a lot of vitriol. This is simple to understand;

The reasons for this are not complex; Many of her flock secretly don't really believe either, at least not in any more than an abstract sense. Its a social club, in fact its a social contract more or less, the tribe to which you belong, a social system or virtual village. You don't violate that contract, and you don't go against the party line of the tribe. Depending to some degree on the denomination, modern flocks tend to have very homogeneous views on everything, not just morality but politics and culture as well. They are truly a tribe. Faith is not really their common point, but its the blanket 'Flag' of that tribal system under which it is organized. Just make sure you don't point out the emperor has no clothes and you are fine.

I have a lot of people in my flock with 'faith issues', particularly couples where one believes and the other doesn't, or where both don't believe anymore but came back for the kids, or old people that came back to have a support network, or teens that go because their family does. there are a lot of athiests (or more correctly, agnostics) in the pews, for many reasons. As a social and cultural cornerstone the churches are just too useful to them, and family ties too valued to risk breaking.
2012-05-01 12:31:52 AM
1 votes:
I got to this thread late, so I just skimmed through for pictures. All you religious nutcases who chimed in need to STFU and put on the god damned glasses!
maggotfilms.comllwproductions.files.wordpress.com
2012-04-30 11:06:56 PM
1 votes:
" I am a jealous God, thou shalt have no other Gods before me."

1. That means there are other Gods?

2. Jealousy is a human emotion often negative. Imperfect. God is supposed to be perfect so how can he feel jealousy? Does not compute, does not compute, overload beep, whir.

"Will I dream?"
2012-04-30 09:59:58 PM
1 votes:

xebeche_tzu: It's obviously an innate drive to seek and create God


There are a few known tribes in the world that have no religion nor any concept of the divine. And even among established religions, the divine as the Western mind thinks of it, doesn't exists. None of the kami in Shinto is anything like how Westerners think of a god being. No omniscience, no omnipotence etc. Nor a lot of other stuff thought of as divine. And forget worshiping them, that is right out the window. They are venerated, but definitely not worshiped.

Salt Lick Steady: Don't forget the potlucks.


Only for Episcopalians.
2012-04-30 09:48:35 PM
1 votes:

indylaw: What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?


Isn't that the reason for a church?
2012-04-30 09:45:25 PM
1 votes:

Chinchillazilla: Have you ever been to church? Nobody pays attention in church.


Sure they do...

They pay attention to what everybody else is wearing and what they're driving. They pay attention to who arrived late or who didn't come. They pay attention to who's sleeping with whom, who they saw coming out of the bar last night, who's kid came out as gay, and so forth.

Paying attention to the alleged teachings of Jesus... not so much.
2012-04-30 09:14:11 PM
1 votes:
Another thought I've been pondering on for a while, as a Pagan. The Universe and everything in it is so utterly massive that we as humans have only a very dim understanding of it. We have theories, we have data based on what we can perceive and measure, but when you go beyond the observable universe, things get weird and only cause some of theories to break down. We don't have all the answers, no one does.

So, to create such a massive machine, composed of billions and billions of particles all arranged perfectly to form planets and stars and gasses and gold and all of the fun things in the universe, not to mention to create life itself, which is still a mystery that we can't fully explain...I don't believe that that happens entirely by chance. I don't believe that of all of the infinite possible combinations to have been formed at the start of it all, it would just HAPPEN to create life, that evolves and grows and changes and diversifies until you have the thousands of species, if not hundreds of thousands, spread across the one world we know about, not to mention the many worlds out there we have no hope of observing for sure.

I think something greater than all of it started out the system, not necessarily for good or evil, but because it was interesting to see what happens when you have millions upon millions upon millions of interacting pieces and parts all moving around in their own little orbits, doing whatever they will do, interacting and causing change, creating wildly different outcomes than one might have predicted with the simplest of interaction. Partly this is why I don't believe that whoever, or whatever, is guiding or tending to our little machine can, or will, intervene for any one person or ideal -- after all, the whole machine is built upon the ability of the system to self-perpetuate and continue to grow and evolve on its own. What catastrophic events would come about if the Admin were to change this event or that simply because someone wished it to, and what unintended consequences would have come had he simply intervened?

No, I think that there is a being of some form -- and I have no way to quantify this since I can barely grasp the concept that there might be something up there to begin with -- that started it all and gave it the ability to grow, not just free will, but freedom of any restrictions, to see how it would turn out.

I also think that philosophers, gods, angels, whatever we perceive within the human rationale, however you want to look at it, are the remnants, or even Modmins if you will, that don't necessarily exist any higher than just above us, but are there to keep an eye on things, tend the garden, and keep things moving in a fairly positive direction overall so that the system continues to test itself and grow, and doesn't stagnate.

Anyway, what "God" is is something different for each of us. Some of us prefer to simply ignore the possibility or not believe in it. I choose to believe in something, whatever form that takes, and accept that I'll never know for sure so why argue about it on the internet anyway?

/Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.
2012-04-30 09:08:56 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


What's not to get? Atheists, especially in the Deep South, are treated like garbage. A lot of people feel they can't even be honest about themselves without being personally attacked. "Coming out" gives them solace and confidence.
2012-04-30 08:53:21 PM
1 votes:

The Grasshopper: BigChad: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x338]

[www.majhost.com image 450x450]


That's not atheism at all. Its a poor understanding of a variety of scientific theories.
2012-04-30 08:47:31 PM
1 votes:
"They were Methodists, a denomination my father referred to as Baptists who could read. "

i262.photobucket.com
2012-04-30 08:33:38 PM
1 votes:
She didn't lose faith.

She gained understanding.
2012-04-30 08:30:01 PM
1 votes:
I see she's keeping that annoying tendency religious people display in thinking anyone else gives a fark what they believe.

edge.ebaumsworld.com
2012-04-30 08:21:00 PM
1 votes:

3 G's: As an agnostic, I can certainly understand why she would "lose" her faith, but I don't understand why one would continue to live the lie once one has come to the realization that the various "gods" were created by men, in the image of man.

By continuing to "minister" she wasn't being true to herself, or her "congregation", so, in that she was wrong IMHO.


When you say "I don't understand", don't just keep going on as though you do understand. Instead, you stop, figure things out, then continue when you actually understand.

/I thought she explained why she kept going pretty well in the article, you might want to go over it again
2012-04-30 08:09:21 PM
1 votes:

Salt Lick Steady: The Grasshopper: BigChad: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x338]

[www.majhost.com image 450x450]

Hey I know you, you're the dude who writes textbooks for Texas, right?


Could be.
I also wright the bad one liners everyone uses for these forums on this internets...
I see your using one of my best ones!
2012-04-30 08:03:23 PM
1 votes:

Yuri Futanari: I'm a reluctant atheist obviously, I wish I could have faith in something so that in 50 or 60 years when I'm on my deathbed I'm calm and looking forward to what's next. Instead I'll be laying there in stark terror knowing that it's all over and there's nothing I can do about it.


On the other hand, if you've lived life as an asshole, knowing that it's all over may be a good thing -- oblivion is better than hell.
2012-04-30 07:58:43 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Corvus: Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.

Yeah Buddhism is actually pretty cool. Eastern religions are neat in general because they are much more like philosophies and focus on personal improvement.

the jury is still out on the pagans tho. sometimes I wonder if there isn't a trickster god or three out there mucking around with the evangelicals. Coyote maybe...or Loki.


I guess I'm one of the few farkers who identifies as a Norse heathen atheist. I respect the mythology and gods as celebrated ancestors or legends rather then actual living breathing sentient gods. Religious myth and stories don't have to be completely discarded as there is a certain amount of wisdom and lessons (both good and bad) from the human condition distilled within - when it begins to be literally interpreted, all kinds of crazy happens.

/ my boss is a norse electrician...
// Attended seminary for 3 years
2012-04-30 07:58:34 PM
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: ..........It's immoral to you because we filter it through human lens. Human morals are meaningless to God. Human morals are subjective anyway. All you have to do is open a newspaper and you'll have one group defending one guy and saying he is evil and another saying he is not!.......The Bible is very clear that sin causes death and ALL have sin and fall short of God's glory.
In God's eyes everyone is a sinner including Gandhi, Dalai Lama, Anne Frank etc. From a human perspective I know it is sometimes difficult to accept. While these folks are considered 'good' by human standards and have done many good things I for one am glad God did not set the bar at 'their' level of 'goodness'.
They are still human beings and has the potential do to evil as well if circumstances were different. If Hitler was born to a different family or raised differently in much difefrent circumstance perhaps he could've been the greatest force of good given his charisma etc yet he is still the same person so to base some standards on whether someone is good or bad on other human beings is a very flawed strategy and I'm glad the Bible doesn't!
Since this is fark I guess I better get prepared to be put on the ignore list or mock mercilessly.



You actually just gave the atheist camp more ammunition to fight with.

I think humans have a very good sense of what's good. Christianity is an excuse to lower the bar so the very worse among us can get away with murder. If there is a God and it does not understand what we think is good and wholesome, then that entity is not any better than that fictional Idiot-Sultan-of-Demons Azathoth surrounded by his moist fungoid flautists.

Even Cthulhu makes more sense.
2012-04-30 07:51:39 PM
1 votes:
I really feel for this woman. Over my 42 years of life I have seen suffering of children, undeserved death, and wrongs that seemed unjustified. I have, many times, questioned my own faith. That being said, upon reflection, I strongly believe that the problem with relegion is the relegious.
2012-04-30 07:44:28 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: But atheism? I thought the point was "free thought", not having Dawkins and others feed you ideology. Furthermore, when those conventions go on, it's usually not to get at some deeper truth of life without a higher power... it's to get together and biatch about religion. It's all fine and well, but don't pretend you're somehow above that sort of activity if that's how you conduct your personal beliefs.


Most atheists I know, including myself, have never read those authors. But for those who have, it is asinine to suggest that because they read a book that they are suddenly being "fed ideology".

As for going to the conference to biatch about religion ... I am assuming that you have never been at one of these conventions. How is it you seem to know what they do there? Do you have any evidence or are you just making shiat up as you go? Typical religious person flinging mud?

How about the idea that they are getting together to have some time away from the oppressive environments that the religious create? To possibly work on political strategies to stop the rampant introduction of religion into law (i.e. to defend the American constitution). Or perhaps just to meet some people who's first question isn't "what church do you go to?".

Your assumptions make you an ass.
2012-04-30 07:43:00 PM
1 votes:

Zeno-25: Theeng: Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.

It happens all the time. The only difference with this case is that the pastor knew she was spouting BS. Other people are much, much less honest with themselves.

[photo.goodreads.com image 294x500]


Maybe churches should stop accepting money from people who don't believe, or don't completely adhere to the dogma of the religion.
2012-04-30 07:42:40 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: Yuri Futanari: My family doesn't know I'm an atheist and I don't ever want them to. I don't fear their reaction, they'd accept me and love me regardless. I don't want to tell them because they'd want to understand and would ask me about it, and I don't want any of my answers to insert even a sliver of doubt into their own faith. They're not evangelicals, their faith is private and doesn't hurt anyone (they support gay marriage and women's rights, for example) - who am I to even take even a little bit of spiritual comfort away from them?

I'm a reluctant atheist obviously, I wish I could have faith in something so that in 50 or 60 years when I'm on my deathbed I'm calm and looking forward to what's next. Instead I'll be laying there in stark terror knowing that it's all over and there's nothing I can do about it. I wouldn't wish atheism on anyone. Hell I wish I could be agnostic at the least.

Why fear death? It's just another (final) part of life. Just as your life has depended on the deaths of other life (plants, animals, bacteria, etc), so will new life depend on your death.

I'd fear immortality. What would a person do once they had done all that there is to be done? Eternal boredom doesn't sit to well with me.


We differ there. I suppose I am selfish, I don't care that I'll be contributing to new life in the future, that doesn't do me any good! I would love to be eternally bored yet alive, and I don't think that the boredom thing would necessarily happen, given all that there is now and will be in the future to experience as we as a species evolve and expand.

/yes, The Man from Earth is one of my favorite movies
2012-04-30 07:41:42 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


As an athiest myself I agree that these conventions sound very much like religion.
2012-04-30 07:40:49 PM
1 votes:

Theeng: Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.


It happens all the time. The only difference with this case is that the pastor knew she was spouting BS. Other people are much, much less honest with themselves.

photo.goodreads.com
2012-04-30 07:39:42 PM
1 votes:

Corvus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

You really don't understand atheism. Lets say you like the the football team of the Cowboys. It's not that as an atheist you root for another team. For 99% of atheists It's like you no longer watch football at all.

That's a lot different.


In my experience, there are two basic types of atheism. To build upon your analogy, some are convinced that football doesn't exist, The other type acknowledges that football exists, but is unimportant. I am unwilling to be completely materialistic given all the weird stuff I've seen happen.
2012-04-30 07:39:04 PM
1 votes:

Salt Lick Steady: Kurmudgeon: Cagey B: No, atheism is *not* a religion.

Still hiding behind that one, eh? It's just a belief that some defend like a religion.
/same thing

What does that even mean, 'defend like it's a religion'?

/not stamp collecting is a hobby


I think Kurmudgeon is really saying that atheists defend the Constitution from attempts to violate the Establishment Clause. Perhaps he will someday join us in caring about the freedom of and freedom from religion.
2012-04-30 07:37:46 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: rocketpants: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

She outed herself, you moron.

The article strongly implies that she was outed to her congregation due to video of her at the convention going viral. There is nothing there stating that she ever came clean to the people she'd been lying to.


You think it would have been more appropriate to stand up in front of a packed church and tell everyone that she doesn't believe their religion anymore? What is the difference where she did it? Try for a split second to have some empathy for a person who was obviously in crisis.
2012-04-30 07:35:30 PM
1 votes:
So for at least a year, she held on to her job helping to lead a congregation, because she couldn't find another job and didn't want to work at Starbucks or McDonald's? Essentially, she lied so she could keep getting her paycheck. So in other words, not only did she become an atheist, but a liar and a thief as well. Well ok then.
2012-04-30 07:32:23 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.


But there are many gods. It says so right in the First Commandment:

""I am the LORD your GOD, thou shall not have any other GODS before me."

This one is just being a jealous, narcissistic biatch in not letting his people see other gods, you know, a worshipers night out so to speak, on occasion. What's a few dollars in Aphrodite's toga a couple times a year, eh?
2012-04-30 07:26:43 PM
1 votes:

Bag of Hammers: ph0rk: Bag of Hammers: The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans

The Omnissiah is just your dead corpse-emperor.



[4.bp.blogspot.com image 350x350]


Now I haz an exterminatus sad.
2012-04-30 07:26:15 PM
1 votes:

o4tuna: If faith without works is dead, what is works without faith?


works
2012-04-30 07:26:08 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: ph0rk:

"I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," she says. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you."

Lolwut? She doesn't seem to fully grasp this whole atheist thing very well.


She's new, give her some time.
2012-04-30 07:25:16 PM
1 votes:

ph0rk: Bag of Hammers: The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans

The Omnissiah is just your dead corpse-emperor.



4.bp.blogspot.com
2012-04-30 07:21:20 PM
1 votes:

megalynn44: austin_millbarge: Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.

This


This this.
2012-04-30 07:19:20 PM
1 votes:

ph0rk: Marine1: It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.

Higher purpose? Why do you need a higher purpose? We're talking acquiring knowledge for oneself, not contributing to it or distributing it.

Know things just to know them. Because other people might not know them.


I think he may be talking about "spirituality". You know, religion for people with commitment issues.
mjg
2012-04-30 07:18:54 PM
1 votes:
Alain de Botton's book Religion for Atheists is a pretty good read, especially for the atheists in the room.
2012-04-30 07:18:14 PM
1 votes:

OnlyM3: FTA
"I'm currently an active pastor a scam artist bilking a church and I'm also an atheist," she says.



FiFY.


Oh, you mean the church that bilked her out of a lifetime of meaningful work and experience by lying to her about the nature of the world and universe since the day she was born? Yeah, what a biatch.
2012-04-30 07:14:09 PM
1 votes:

Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?

religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.

Knowledge is knowledge. What does 'god' have to do with it?


The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans

www.deviantart.com
2012-04-30 07:11:55 PM
1 votes:

FTA

"I'm currently an active pastor a scam artist bilking a church and I'm also an atheist," she says.




FiFY.
2012-04-30 07:11:53 PM
1 votes:
I support her atheism and whatnot...but what a farking coont for lying to her congregation repeatedly. The only reason she didn't come out sooner was her financial worries? Fark you, lady.
2012-04-30 07:11:35 PM
1 votes:
If you are a minister for a religion that requires you believe in god you need to believe in god or you need to quite being a minister. If you are a doctor that doesn't believe in medicine you need to stop being a doctor. Sure, the consequences of being a minister who doesn't believe in god are much less severe and much more make believe, last rights don't really save you from a fictional damnation, but it is about being moral and honest. Besides, you can always just become a Unitarian Minister.

I'm out of the Atheist closet in about half my world. I struggle with how open to be on places like Facebook. I don't want to start a holy war with the extended family, but I'm starting to realize that maybe it's just not worth it if the extended family keeps posting posts about how Barack Hussein Obama is a secret Kenyan borne Muslim who kisses other men full on the lips and lies about who he considers his father and whether that person served in WWII. It may be time to prune the FB family tree. Barack Obama is a non-secret Keynesian Christian who has been photoshopped! One of the three people he considered a father did serve in WWII. He isn't coming for your guns, and he isn't going to raise your taxes, because you aren't rich.
2012-04-30 07:11:12 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God",

[upload.wikimedia.org image 267x386]

Speak for yourself. For some it really is a religion onto itself.

Great book--disillusioned WWII vet starts anti-God ministry in the South, becoming an antipriest.


Oh Jesus f*cking Christ. We get to have that conversation again.

No, atheism is *not* a religion. There is no more structure or dogmatic precepts to follow than there is to the realization that Yul Brynner does not in fact control everything from a command post in the center of the sun. This can be encapsulated by the "I"m going to go pursue my hobby of not collecting stamps" analogy.

Atheism is NOT the same as antitheism. Antitheism is a positive assertion of a particular set of ideas. Calling it a religion probably does it a disservice since that puts it on the same ground as Christianity and all the other relgions, but that's a different discussion.

People who start treating being an atheist like a religion have simply found a different thing to stop thinking critically about. The person in the article doesn't seem to have put a lot of critical thought into her situation.
2012-04-30 07:11:02 PM
1 votes:

ph0rk: Weaver95: ph0rk: I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,

that's merely a common reference point for the divine. the only way humans can really grasp eternity is within a religious framework. or higher mathmatics, but that gives me headaches.

I'm not sure why you need a reference to the divine, either.


It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.
2012-04-30 07:10:45 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: I'm not assuming they are all turning atheist, but I know more than a few people ashamed to call themselves Christian these days. They still do though. Cultural income inertia is a biatch to overcome


FTFM.
2012-04-30 07:09:25 PM
1 votes:

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist.


789chan.org
2012-04-30 07:05:51 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


So much farking this.

I'm a believer in Christianity. I don't go to church much (I just like getting my own message), but I can sort of get the idea behind it when it comes to religion. But atheism? I thought the point was "free thought", not having Dawkins and others feed you ideology. Furthermore, when those conventions go on, it's usually not to get at some deeper truth of life without a higher power... it's to get together and biatch about religion. It's all fine and well, but don't pretend you're somehow above that sort of activity if that's how you conduct your personal beliefs.
2012-04-30 07:05:18 PM
1 votes:

ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)?

She doesn't have to move but I'd imagine faith is a pretty important quality for a baptist minister to have. She should probably have stepped out of the role.


She was a methodist pastor. And when you go through that radical of a change, converting out of it is a brutal battle, and the way you go about it doesn't always live up to Farkistan standards.
2012-04-30 07:03:53 PM
1 votes:

Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?


religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.
2012-04-30 07:02:26 PM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: There = heaven.


I will give you the benefit of the doubt. (And I am interested to see your reasoning.) How is Anne Frank in Heaven according to "the bible."

//You didn't capitalize "bible". Is that your loophole?
2012-04-30 07:00:04 PM
1 votes:

GilRuiz1: "So what the hell am I supposed to do?" she asks in one recording, her voice sounding desperate. "Really, the options are work at something like Starbucks or McDonald's - and even there they're going to ask those questions. I could even clean houses and not make a great amount of money - but at least nobody would be asking me questions."

Unitarians need preachers too. There's even atheist chaplains nowadays. Just because you're an unbeliever doesn't mean you can't still be a minister.


I've seriously considered becoming a humanist chaplain.

Most atheists and humanists don't care if you still want to worship a god of some kind. Do good works, improve the lives of other people, and try to leave the place a little better than you found it, no matter what your motivation is.

You can still believe in love, forgiveness, and kindness to your fellow humans. We just believe in life BEFORE death.
2012-04-30 06:59:26 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Delay: Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.

I don't know what that means. But, since my kids (three very white kids in college) are earnestly converting me to Buddhism, I appreciate everybody's ideas.

Seriously, what is a technocratic buddist?

god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.


If god is knowledge what are false knowledge, pseudoscience, and disingenuous propaganda?
2012-04-30 06:56:37 PM
1 votes:

Ikahoshi: Although there may well be forces at play in the universe, I don't think they are necessarily sentient or have a good/evil duality to them. They just are, and don't require our acknowledgement or worship.


Who here in the Slowness can comprehend what happens in the Beyond?
2012-04-30 06:51:18 PM
1 votes:
I've been an atheist for 30+ years now, and yea Christians are dicks when they find out you are an atheist, but what sort of idiot goes before the American Atheists convention as a "coming out"?

If you want to tell your story, you first, move, second, get another job, third THEN come out and say it took you several decades to figure out what a thinking person should before they turn 16.

Glad you figured it out sister, welcome to the club, but use some common sense.
2012-04-30 06:49:54 PM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: Coelacanth: "One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god. Take Jesus as your savior, I was told, and you can smile as He hurls countless others into a lake of fire, including the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Anne Frank and all those friends and neighbors of yours who don't "believe" in him. I found this idea pagan and ugly. Don't try to be superior to God, I was told. His ways are mysterious. Well, I wanted my ways to be moral, merciful, kind and just. I may fail every day at this but I want to try. This is a magnificent world we live in; surely it wasn't made solely for a fiery apocalypse. To love, to serve, to witness, to try to do something meaningful - that is what makes sense to me"
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion which does a great deal of harm in the world. Christians in America spend millions trying to influence legislation and elections to limit the rights of women and the rights of gays. They do not leave the rest of us alone. They do not respect the rest of us. I fear this. I wish those who call themselves Christians, and claim to be loving and good, would take some real moral responsibility for their religion and the things it has done historically and the things it is doing now. ~ Anne Rice

According to the bible, they will all be there.



s2s2s2: There = heaven.


[citation needed]
2012-04-30 06:49:53 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.


I don't know what that means. But, since my kids (three very white kids in college) are earnestly converting me to Buddhism, I appreciate everybody's ideas.

Seriously, what is a technocratic buddist?
2012-04-30 06:49:32 PM
1 votes:
media.tumblr.com

/In Jesus' name, I pray.
2012-04-30 06:45:49 PM
1 votes:

Corvus: Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.

Yeah Buddhism is actually pretty cool. Eastern religions are neat in general because they are much more like philosophies and focus on personal improvement.


the jury is still out on the pagans tho. sometimes I wonder if there isn't a trickster god or three out there mucking around with the evangelicals. Coyote maybe...or Loki.
2012-04-30 06:45:47 PM
1 votes:
As an agnostic, I can certainly understand why she would "lose" her faith, but I don't understand why one would continue to live the lie once one has come to the realization that the various "gods" were created by men, in the image of man.

By continuing to "minister" she wasn't being true to herself, or her "congregation", so, in that she was wrong IMHO.
2012-04-30 06:44:42 PM
1 votes:

Uncivil Engineer: Before RTFA: I bet she is Methodist.

After: Yup, she is Methodist. They are the 'liters' of the Christian world.


The Disciples of Christ laugh at that suggestion.
2012-04-30 06:43:57 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: i'm more of a technocratic buddist these days.


Yeah Buddhism is actually pretty cool. Eastern religions are neat in general because they are much more like philosophies and focus on personal improvement.
2012-04-30 06:43:07 PM
1 votes:

Ikahoshi:
Although there may well be forces at play in the universe, I don't think they are necessarily sentient or have a good/evil duality to them. They just are, and don't require our acknowledgement or worship.


upload.wikimedia.org

/Gaius agrees.
2012-04-30 06:42:26 PM
1 votes:

Ikahoshi: I was raised in a religious family, but grew up basically atheist. I say basically because I don't believe in anything like the concept of "God" in the Christian sense of the word.

Although there may well be forces at play in the universe, I don't think they are necessarily sentient or have a good/evil duality to them. They just are, and don't require our acknowledgement or worship.


Why don't you consider yourself agnostic then? That sound pretty agnostic to me.
2012-04-30 06:39:38 PM
1 votes:
Coelacanth: "One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god . . . . "
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion . . . . . ~ Anne Rice



Just to be sure you're not quoting out of context, here's more from Wiki:

Renunciation of Organized Religion
On July 29, 2010, Rice publicly renounced her dedication to Christianity on her Facebook page:

"For those who care, and I understand if you don't: Today I quit being a Christian. I'm out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being "Christian" or to being part of Christianity. It's simply impossible for me to "belong" to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I've tried. I've failed. I'm an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else."[61]

A few hours later she clarified her motives:
"In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."[61]

She reaffirmed her faith in Christ with a stance of non-adherence to organized Christianity an hour or so later:
"My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn't understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me. But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been, or might become."[62]

Subsequently, in an interview, Rice further clarified her statements:
"My commitment to Christ remains at the heart and center of my life. Transformation in Him is radical and ongoing. That I feel now that I am called to be an outsider for Him, to step away from the words, "Christian" and "Christianity" is something that my conscience demands of me. I feel that my faith in Him demands this of me. I know of no other way to express how I must remove myself from those things which seek to separate me from Him."


Personally, I agree with some of her angles, but don't know that I'd "renounce" Christianity altogether--just the more bureaucratic sects (such as Catholicism) .
2012-04-30 06:38:28 PM
1 votes:

chuggernaught: A minister turned atheist does not deserve ridicule and spite. They deserve love and compassion.

/I mean, were you people even paying attention in church!


Have you ever been to church? Nobody pays attention in church.
2012-04-30 06:37:24 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.


Yes it seems a bit unethical to be a minister if you don't believe what you are doing. It is more than a job it is a religious calling, if you don't believe in the religion it seems you should leave the job.
2012-04-30 06:37:11 PM
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: The local TV station, WCTV, ran a series of stories about MacBain, interviewing her boss but never MacBain herself. Hundreds of people wrote comments on the site, and MacBain says they were painful to read.

Let me just say that for a TV station website from Tallahassee, it's pretty much what I expected.


by Lori Location: Pery on Apr 23, 2012 at 02:05 PM
She says that she use to be a "hater", but a true Christian doesn't hate. She may have turned her back on God, but HE will still be there for her if she wants to turn back.


Good point, that reduces the number of true Christians to... 17. World wide.
2012-04-30 06:35:16 PM
1 votes:
I'm an atheist, my wife is not. We've been married for 31 years. Although it was discussed in a civil manner in the early years, it has never been a source of contention.
2012-04-30 06:28:17 PM
1 votes:
"The questions haunted her: Is Jesus the only way to God?"

Answer: No
2012-04-30 06:25:04 PM
1 votes:
"comes as an Atheist"?
29.media.tumblr.com
2012-04-30 06:24:22 PM
1 votes:
I'll watch almost any chick come, regardless of religious affiliation.
 
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