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(NPR)   A Christian Minister comes to find out just how Christian her community is after she comes as an Atheist   (npr.org) divider line 634
    More: Florida, American Atheists, United Methodist Church, Southern Baptist, Teresa MacBain  
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27811 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 6:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



634 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-04-30 09:17:46 PM
"How did I get myself in this mess? Sometimes, I think to myself, if I could just go back a few years and not ask the questions and just be one of those sheep and blindly follow and not know the truth, it would be so much easier. I'd just keep my job. But I can't do that. I know it's a lie. I know it's false."


Now she knows how every first-term Congressman/Senator feels after six months in office.


/Just live the lie, Teresa
//They do it
///You can too
 
2012-04-30 09:18:03 PM

Kit Fister: Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.


You mean The Republic?
 
2012-04-30 09:19:00 PM

bubo_sibiricus: Avery614: I see she's keeping that annoying tendency religious people display in thinking anyone else gives a fark what they believe.

[edge.ebaumsworld.com image 556x506]

That picture is clearly wrong.

Jesus rode a Tyrannosaur. Only He would ride the King of Lizards.

It's in the Bible. The Discovery Institute told me so.


You obviously don't know your Christian history. This picture was taken BEFORE Jesus was baptized or walked on water. You can tell as his hair is shorter and he is holding the baby Mega-Croc that would assist him in a few years with the "walking on water" trick. The T-Rex you speak of was ridden into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, and did not appear until Jesus was staying at Bethany and Bethphage, six days before passover. While there, Jesus sent two disciples to the village over against them, in order to retrieve a T-Rex that had been tied up but never been ridden, and to say, if questioned, that the big farking lizard was needed by the Lord.

/the gospel according to John
//Thanks be to god
 
2012-04-30 09:19:21 PM

ph0rk: Kit Fister: Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Most pagans I know are far more human than most christians. Then again, those who truly believe in god and his teachings are few and far between and have nothing in common with people who get their sunday-morning lip service on, then take the snippets of the bible they can remember because they're popular and convince themselves they're doing what god wants.

Frankly, as a Pagan, I KNOW my gods. I also know that my gods are like humanity in a way: They're busy, they lead their lives, and they take care of the universe. They're not up there to play nursemaid and cater to my every whim because Life is hard goddammit.


I'm not really sure being decent to others is an inherently human trait - probably the opposite. Almost certainly, in fact.

I have to admit I'm curious about most pagans - they frequently aren't raised that way so I have to wonder why and how they came to their beliefs.


For me, it was finding something that fit and resonated with me, something that called to me in a way I couldn't explain. It just was "Right" for me, so that's the direction I went. I started thinking for myself and that's where I found myself.
 
2012-04-30 09:19:22 PM

hartzdog: I thought preachers who didn't believe in god were called Jesuits.


*golf clap*

Salt Lick Steady: Paul was kind of a dick.


Paul didn't write the passage in question. He was dead and gone for a good 30 years before the letters of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus showed up.
 
2012-04-30 09:20:51 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Kit Fister: Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.

You mean The Republic?


Well, yes, it is a component of The Republic, but I prefer the allegory alone to reading the entire thing again.
 
2012-04-30 09:20:53 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Kit Fister: Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.

You mean The Republic?


I are smrt.

You done yet?

;)
 
2012-04-30 09:21:56 PM
MacBain, 44, was raised a conservative Southern Baptist. Her dad was a pastor and she felt the call of God when she was 6...


Just think of the trouble she'd have saved herself had she reported that feeling to a responsible adult.

Sad.
 
2012-04-30 09:23:13 PM

Indubitably: Salt Lick Steady: Kit Fister: Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.

You mean The Republic?

I are smrt.

You done yet?

;)


Shall I deposit you into my elephant memory for all time?

You ready for that?

I'm not sure you are.

Stand down, man.

You defeet yerself...

Heh.
 
2012-04-30 09:23:55 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Paul was kind of a dick.


Indeed
 
2012-04-30 09:24:40 PM

Indubitably: Diodorus: Remember one Xmas you believed in Santa Claus and then the next Xmas you didnt?

So fragile.

So easily broken.

So apostrophes.

So sad, really.

Fricative.

;)


quoted without comment.
 
2012-04-30 09:25:05 PM

Mr. Holmes: And God abandons no one


Obviously you have never read that bit in Revelations that all the Christians insist will happen, where one side will be with Jesus, and the other side where the ground opens up and the rest of humanity is abandoned.

That's some really sick and twisted sci-fi.
 
2012-04-30 09:25:36 PM

Kit Fister: Salt Lick Steady: Kit Fister: Off to read Plato's "The Cave" again.

You mean The Republic?

Well, yes, it is a component of The Republic, but I prefer the allegory alone to reading the entire thing again.


I know, I know, the entire thing was so boring.

WhyteRaven74: Paul didn't write the passage in question. He was dead and gone for a good 30 years before the letters of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus showed up.


Are we speaking of different Pauls here? I know there is a branch of theologians who think it was written by someone else, but that's quite a minority.
 
2012-04-30 09:25:40 PM

WhyteRaven74: Paul didn't write the passage in question. He was dead and gone for a good 30 years before the letters of 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus showed up.


Very true, but he was still a dick.
 
2012-04-30 09:26:26 PM

bubo_sibiricus: that all the Christians insist will happen,


I can think of quite a few denominations who don't insist it will happen, indeed they find Revelation to be the Biblical equivalent of a Michael Bay movie.
 
2012-04-30 09:28:09 PM

Salt Lick Steady: tonguedepressor: Do I have to go to Georgia?

Devil!

smeegle: You can't farkin be serious.

Paul was kind of a dick.


Heh Heh...when the Devil has to go down to Georgia what does that tell you
 
2012-04-30 09:29:35 PM

Salt Lick Steady: but that's quite a minority.


Among mainstream theologians and Biblical scholars, if you try to argue that the Paul who wrote 1 Corinthians and Romans is the same person who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus, you aren't going to be getting invited to any more meetings. Between the historical evidence, the linguistic evidence, theological evidence and other evidence, no one save for a few people who aren't among respected theologians or Biblical scholars things it's the same author. And hasn't for some time.
 
2012-04-30 09:29:39 PM
Wow, I'm surprised there are so many comments in this thread. I thought people on Fark generally didn't care that much about religion
 
2012-04-30 09:31:51 PM

tuffsnake: Wow, I'm surprised there are so many comments in this thread. I thought people on Fark generally didn't care that much about religion


it's an election year and the fundies are all riled up. its kind of a big issue right now.
 
2012-04-30 09:32:33 PM

tuffsnake: Wow, I'm surprised there are so many comments in this thread. I thought people on Fark generally didn't care that much about religion


Ah yes but we never pass up the opportunity to mock it.....
 
2012-04-30 09:32:42 PM

tuffsnake: Wow, I'm surprised there are so many comments in this thread. I thought people on Fark generally didn't care that much about religion


Har har.

The world is ruled by religion, asshole.

Farkers give a shiat and laugh...

At you religios, yo.

Y'all should grow-show-some-look-it-up.

Heh.

;)
 
2012-04-30 09:32:50 PM
I was dismissed from Sunday school. They told my mother I was being disruptive.
"Disruptive how?" Mom asks.
They said I asked questions, too many questions, 'Where is the land of Nod and how did Cain find a wife there if they were the sons of Adam and Eve?"
"If the Earth was without form then how could it exist?"
Annoying question like that. So I got to play in the back of the church until everyone was done being brainwashed.
 
2012-04-30 09:33:11 PM

tonguedepressor: Heh Heh...when the Devil has to go down to Georgia what does that tell you


I should have named my vagina Puerto Rico.
 
2012-04-30 09:33:45 PM

gimmegimme: Mr. Holmes: It sounds like she was raised to be good at religion, but not good at being a Christian. Most of the Christians that are being reviled here, and everywhere, it seems, are only good at being religious.

Being religious means you're looking to earn God's favor by being a good person. One of the only things "good people" are good at is telling other people how not good they are. Which is stupid, really.

The truth is that we're all farked up. If getting into heaven is based on whether you're a good person or not, we're all due for some warm temperatures.

Nothing we can do can make us right with God. The great thing is, Jesus already took care of that part. All we have to do is have faith.

Having faith means that you rely on God, not your own power to save yourself. And God abandons no one: not gay people, not atheists, not Muslims, not even Methodists.

That is nothing to live in fear of, but rather, the best cause for hope.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]


Ha, funny. Love xkcd. I'll try to answer what I think you're asking.

1. Isaiah 64:6 gets quoted a lot. "all our acts of righteousness are but filthy rags," and what. That's repeated all throughout the NT.

2. John 15:5 Jesus says he is the vine, and we are the branches, and that we can do nothing apart from him. Again, kinda a theme, but I'm trying not to bury you under citations here. Otherwise I'd have to start asking for donations all the time.

3. I said this because many Christians use the Bible to persecute others, instead of loving them or helping them, which I think is kinda what Jesus wanted us to do.

Jesus went out of his way to minister to outcasts everywhere he went: he hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors, people of different races and religions than his own. He always rejected the "righteous" ones, and called them out on their hypocrisy.

Shoot, his best addition to the team was a guy who earned his fame by killing a ridiculous amount of Christians. If God can save that guy, he can save anybody.
 
2012-04-30 09:34:17 PM

bubo_sibiricus: Mr. Holmes: And God abandons no one

Obviously you have never read that bit in Revelations that all the Christians insist will happen, where one side will be with Jesus, and the other side where the ground opens up and the rest of humanity is abandoned.

That's some really sick and twisted sci-fi.


Not to mention this includes your friends and family. Imagine everyone you love dieing horrifically and you get to see it happen. As a bonus, you know the eternal torment that follows is real. Enjoy your survivor's guilt, Christians.
 
2012-04-30 09:35:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: Salt Lick Steady: but that's quite a minority.

Among mainstream theologians and Biblical scholars, if you try to argue that the Paul who wrote 1 Corinthians and Romans is the same person who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus, you aren't going to be getting invited to any more meetings. Between the historical evidence, the linguistic evidence, theological evidence and other evidence, no one save for a few people who aren't among respected theologians or Biblical scholars things it's the same author. And hasn't for some time.


Exactly!

/but really, thanks, I was not aware
//gots me some studying to do
 
2012-04-30 09:36:04 PM

Salt Lick Steady: tonguedepressor: Heh Heh...when the Devil has to go down to Georgia what does that tell you

I should have named my vagina Puerto Rico.


Sounds about right.

;)
 
2012-04-30 09:36:11 PM

Weaver95: engine: Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

I don't think the existence of anything is determined by the number of people that profess belief in it. (Where's your change now?!? amiright?!1)

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. its entirely possible that 'god' is indeed talking to a lot of people...its just that it's not Christ thats doing all the talking. If I were a pagan god looking to pick up worshipers, the evangelical movement would suit me just fine. put on a new outfit, slick by yer hair and preach fire and war...you'll fit right in, no problem.



Plus you'd get rich.
 
2012-04-30 09:36:24 PM

WhyteRaven74: I can think of quite a few denominations who don't insist it will happen, indeed they find Revelation to be the Biblical equivalent of a Michael Bay movie.


According to the ones that believe in Revelations (Protestants), the ones who doubt Revelations aren't Christians, ergo, why Catholics aren't Christians, according to... Christians.
 
2012-04-30 09:36:56 PM
[CTRL + F]

Bevets

**0 results**

Really?
 
2012-04-30 09:37:57 PM

cmunic8r99: [CTRL + F]

Bevets

**0 results**

Really?


Well yeah, until you ruined it.
 
2012-04-30 09:38:19 PM

Indubitably: Farkers give a shiat and laugh...

At you religios, yo.


I HATE it when people laugh at my religios :(
 
2012-04-30 09:38:36 PM
She was a pastor at an evangelical church in the Southern part of Florida, who lived a lie for years because she was a chickenshiat and wanted to keep a job. Then, rather than do the honorable thing and retire quietly, she played hooky one Sunday to make an attention whoring spectacle of herself for pats on the back from a meeting of atheists. Someone put the video on the web and it became a major public spectacle, which her congregation must have heard about for the first time on the local evening news.

She had her fingers crossed behind her back while performing funerals and baptisms and preaching on Sundays. She was trusted to faithfully minister the Word of God and she betrayed that trust, because she was afraid that she didn't have any other job skills and cleaning houses doesn't pay much. She was a fraud.

I'd be upset too. What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?
 
2012-04-30 09:39:06 PM

Salt Lick Steady: cmunic8r99: [CTRL + F]

Bevets

**0 results**

Really?

Well yeah, until you ruined it.


Ha!

So, SLS is Bevets?

Seriously?

;)
 
2012-04-30 09:40:14 PM

indylaw: I'd be upset too. What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?


More like "Peddle BS to us because it's so easy for us not to think."
 
2012-04-30 09:40:19 PM
I can see why her ex-congregation won't talk to her. She exited that situation in the most "duchebaggery" & cowardly way possible. I'd never hire her to work for me, and I'm agnostic lol. Next time get a pair of stones and announce your decision to your congregation face-to-face. Leadership is all about having difficult conversations.

/ as an aside. I'm sorry, I can't respect anyone who plays "Dear Diary" with their iPhone. You know this woman is an insufferable drama queen IRL.
 
2012-04-30 09:40:43 PM

tuffsnake: Indubitably: Farkers give a shiat and laugh...

At you religios, yo.

I HATE it when people laugh at my religios :(


Then grow some stones.

If yer religio is so easily swayed, you might need to rework yer religio...

;)
 
2012-04-30 09:44:24 PM

Mr. Holmes: gimmegimme: Mr. Holmes: It sounds like she was raised to be good at religion, but not good at being a Christian. Most of the Christians that are being reviled here, and everywhere, it seems, are only good at being religious.

Being religious means you're looking to earn God's favor by being a good person. One of the only things "good people" are good at is telling other people how not good they are. Which is stupid, really.

The truth is that we're all farked up. If getting into heaven is based on whether you're a good person or not, we're all due for some warm temperatures.

Nothing we can do can make us right with God. The great thing is, Jesus already took care of that part. All we have to do is have faith.

Having faith means that you rely on God, not your own power to save yourself. And God abandons no one: not gay people, not atheists, not Muslims, not even Methodists.

That is nothing to live in fear of, but rather, the best cause for hope.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]

Ha, funny. Love xkcd. I'll try to answer what I think you're asking.

1. Isaiah 64:6 gets quoted a lot. "all our acts of righteousness are but filthy rags," and what. That's repeated all throughout the NT.


Umm...that's not what it says. It should be: "We have all become like the unclean;
all our righteous deeds are like a menstrual rag.
All of us wither like a leaf;
our sins, like the wind, carry us away."


2. John 15:5 Jesus says he is the vine, and we are the branches, and that we can do nothing apart from him. Again, kinda a theme, but I'm trying not to bury you under citations here. Otherwise I'd have to start asking for donations all the time.

3. I said this because many Christians use the Bible to persecute others, instead of loving them or helping them, which I think is kinda what Jesus wanted us to do.

Jesus went out of his way to minister to outcasts everywhere he went: he hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors, people of different races and religions than his own. He always rejected the "righteous" ones, and called them out on their hypocrisy.

Shoot, his best addition to the team was a guy who earned his fame by killing a ridiculous amount of Christians. If God can save that ...


Well, I could be wrong (I've been wrong before), but you don't seem like an a-hole at this point, so I'll make a larger assertion. It's one thing to think of Jesus as a literary character who can help you figure out how best to live life. (My personal favorite is Jean Valjean.) That is the basis on which you can use the Bible as a guide for living, so long as you ignore the evil parts. There is ample proof to consider Jesus a literary character. There is no proof whatsoever to consider him divine or to ascribe validity to the supernatural claims of any religion. Christians try to use the Bible to prove Jesus is divine, but I'm sure you see why that is unsatisfactory proof without corroboration.
 
2012-04-30 09:45:25 PM

Chinchillazilla: Have you ever been to church? Nobody pays attention in church.


Sure they do...

They pay attention to what everybody else is wearing and what they're driving. They pay attention to who arrived late or who didn't come. They pay attention to who's sleeping with whom, who they saw coming out of the bar last night, who's kid came out as gay, and so forth.

Paying attention to the alleged teachings of Jesus... not so much.
 
2012-04-30 09:46:21 PM
Have you ever seen someone get angry over a joke even after you explained that is was a throw away joke?

I seent it.
 
2012-04-30 09:47:33 PM

Salt Lick Steady: cmunic8r99: [CTRL + F]

Bevets

**0 results**

Really?

Well yeah, until you ruined it.


yeah, I didn't think my cunning plan through, huh?
 
2012-04-30 09:47:46 PM

smeegle: indylaw: I'd be upset too. What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?

More like "Peddle BS to us because it's so easy for us not to think."


Putting aside whether you think the gospel is bullshiat, I don't think there's anything wrong with a congregation not wanting to keep as a pastor someone who doesn't sincerely believe the things that she is sworn to teach to others.

The entire article makes her sound like an attention whore who wants to be persecuted. But aside from her off-hand mention of some nasty troll comments on an interweb page, a couple of job interviews that didn't pan out (and really, who WOULDN'T hire someone who ditches work to go talk shiat about her employer?) and a nebulous fear that she might go to Publix and get dirty looks, nothing happened to her. She didn't even bother to show up at her church until a month later. She didn't deal with the board of the church, or formally resign. She just left one day to denounce her religion and then never came back.

Why should I feel sorry for her? The entire story is bullshiat.
 
2012-04-30 09:47:54 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Coelacanth: "One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god. Take Jesus as your savior, I was told, and you can smile as He hurls countless others into a lake of fire, including the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Anne Frank and all those friends and neighbors of yours who don't "believe" in him. I found this idea pagan and ugly. Don't try to be superior to God, I was told. His ways are mysterious. Well, I wanted my ways to be moral, merciful, kind and just. I may fail every day at this but I want to try. This is a magnificent world we live in; surely it wasn't made solely for a fiery apocalypse. To love, to serve, to witness, to try to do something meaningful - that is what makes sense to me"
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion which does a great deal of harm in the world. Christians in America spend millions trying to influence legislation and elections to limit the rights of women and the rights of gays. They do not leave the rest of us alone. They do not respect the rest of us. I fear this. I wish those who call themselves Christians, and claim to be loving and good, would take some real moral responsibility for their religion and the things it has done historically and the things it is doing now. ~ Anne Rice


..........It's immoral to you because we filter it through human lens. Human morals are meaningless to God. Human morals are subjective anyway. All you have to do is open a newspaper and you'll have one group defending one guy and saying he is evil and another saying he is not!.......The Bible is very clear that sin causes death and ALL have sin and fall short of God's glory.
In God's eyes everyone is a sinner including Gandhi, Dalai Lama, Anne Frank etc. From a human perspective I know it is sometimes difficult to accept. While these folks are considered 'good' by human standards and hav ...


No it is immoral because of the horrible things god demands in the old testament (read the whole Soddom and Ghamorah story, the sacking of citties and countries and the slaughter of their inhabitants demanded by god so that his people could have the original inhabitant's land and property, etc.). It is also immoral because of the anti-woman and anti-homosexual content that Paul wrote. It is immoral because of the mentions in the new testament (1st and 2nd John for instance) that unbelievers are anti-christs giving reason to hate them.

I won't even get into the field of applied religion because at that point the christians will just say of any atrocity committed in the name of christ "those weren't real christians" even though those who committed the attrocities had every reason to believe that the holy book supported their actions.

It is immoral because it says that whatever god says is good is good, it gives a specific example of a man being willing to sacrifice his son because god told him to. This requires no critical thought, if god told me to sacrifice my child and I knew that if I didn't I'd spend an eternity in hell, I'd tell him to go f*&# himself. Why, because I know that even if god tells me to the killing of innocents is wrong. Christianity denies that. If god says so I don't have to think for myself.
 
2012-04-30 09:48:19 PM

clyph: Chinchillazilla: Have you ever been to church? Nobody pays attention in church.

Sure they do...

They pay attention to what everybody else is wearing and what they're driving. They pay attention to who arrived late or who didn't come. They pay attention to who's sleeping with whom, who they saw coming out of the bar last night, who's kid came out as gay, and so forth.

Paying attention to the alleged teachings of Jesus... not so much.


Come on, now. If you saw the same 2,000-year-old C-SPAN hearing every week for 60 years, your mind would wander, too.
 
2012-04-30 09:48:35 PM

indylaw: What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?


Isn't that the reason for a church?
 
2012-04-30 09:49:49 PM

bubo_sibiricus: According to the ones that believe in Revelations (Protestants)


Plenty of Protestants think Revelation is bunk too. Basically if they can't trace back to Calvin, odds are they think Revelation isn't much worth bothering with beyond the theater aspects.
 
2012-04-30 09:50:05 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: indylaw: What do you expect, that the congregation says "Oh, that's OK, peddle bullshiat to us because we love you SO much"?

Isn't that the reason for a church?


HURRRRRR
 
2012-04-30 09:50:38 PM

Kit Fister: Either that, or there was something that called to them and lead them that direction.


I used to run an occult bookstore and I got to know quite a few Pagans (that's with a capital P). They weren't called away, they couldn't put up with the hate-filled bullshiat anymore. They were too nice to be Christians.

Christianity is all about slavery and bullying and the scum of the Earth using God as a justification to do whatever they want. A lot of good people aren't fooled by that bullshiat and they don't want anything to do with anybody who can't think for themselves.
 
2012-04-30 09:52:27 PM
It's obviously an innate drive to seek and create God. The thousands of religions will attest to that. We are dualistic creatures, capable of metacognition, which allows us to adopt a "higher" view of our behavior and life. We can be aware of our own impending death, as well as our personality. With this awareness, many are able to discern that humility, tolerance, compassion, and gratitude are among the very best things we can feel and act upon, and so accredit these feelings to God in their bibles.

Whoever came up with Hell was clearly going for broke. It was a huge gamble. They had to hope that folks would not recognize such an idea as hateful and therefor patently human. They surely hoped that the wrath, jealousy, and spite of the condemning God they had invented would never be recognized by people for what it really was: human ego seeking to control.

Unfortunately, the gambit worked, and now the world is Derp. It's full of hateful, jealous, petty, spiteful, wrathful, self-righteous, indignant people who honestly believe that God wants them to be so unpleasantly egotistical because they also believe that's how God himself is. They have been robbed of spirituality by religion.
 
2012-04-30 09:53:10 PM

cmunic8r99: Salt Lick Steady: cmunic8r99: [CTRL + F]

Bevets

**0 results**

Really?

Well yeah, until you ruined it.

yeah, I didn't think my cunning plan through, huh?


:) I helped, hey, there are now two Bevets references to be found in the thread. No THREE! ah ah ah.
 
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