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(NPR)   A Christian Minister comes to find out just how Christian her community is after she comes as an Atheist   (npr.org) divider line 634
    More: Florida, American Atheists, United Methodist Church, Southern Baptist, Teresa MacBain  
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27811 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 6:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 07:03:53 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?


religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.
 
2012-04-30 07:04:01 PM
Let's see, god gave us free will, but if we don't believe in him and accept him, we go to hell and burn forever. He could show himself to the world and then there would be no nonbelievers. But, he doesn't. He would rather play a chickenshiat game of believe or live eternity in pain. Sounds like a swell guy.
 
2012-04-30 07:04:58 PM

Weaver95: ph0rk: If god is knowledge what are false knowledge, pseudoscience, and disingenuous propaganda?

steps upon the path. obstacles thrown in the way that a true believer must evaluate and overcome.

nobody said it would be easy. But true knowledge is worth the effort. deliberate distortions are exposed and the path eventually becomes clear.


But who are you to sift truth from falsehood, and moreover how can you? Perhaps all the falsehood is a truth you just don't get?

Assuming you aren't rejecting empiricism, it seems like a lot of unnecessary baggage to add to me.

I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,
 
2012-04-30 07:05:09 PM
I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.
 
2012-04-30 07:05:18 PM

ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)?

She doesn't have to move but I'd imagine faith is a pretty important quality for a baptist minister to have. She should probably have stepped out of the role.


She was a methodist pastor. And when you go through that radical of a change, converting out of it is a brutal battle, and the way you go about it doesn't always live up to Farkistan standards.
 
2012-04-30 07:05:51 PM

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.


So much farking this.

I'm a believer in Christianity. I don't go to church much (I just like getting my own message), but I can sort of get the idea behind it when it comes to religion. But atheism? I thought the point was "free thought", not having Dawkins and others feed you ideology. Furthermore, when those conventions go on, it's usually not to get at some deeper truth of life without a higher power... it's to get together and biatch about religion. It's all fine and well, but don't pretend you're somehow above that sort of activity if that's how you conduct your personal beliefs.
 
2012-04-30 07:06:21 PM

Weaver95: Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?

religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.


Knowledge is knowledge. What does 'god' have to do with it?
 
2012-04-30 07:07:04 PM

Salt Lick Steady: ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)?

She doesn't have to move but I'd imagine faith is a pretty important quality for a baptist minister to have. She should probably have stepped out of the role.

She was a methodist pastor. And when you go through that radical of a change, converting out of it is a brutal battle, and the way you go about it doesn't always live up to Farkistan standards.


It's just to keep getting paid. Must be nice to essentially dupe a congregation just to get a paycheck - not helping the image, that one.
 
2012-04-30 07:08:16 PM

ph0rk: I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,


that's merely a common reference point for the divine. the only way humans can really grasp eternity is within a religious framework. or higher mathmatics, but that gives me headaches.
 
2012-04-30 07:08:39 PM

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.


She outed herself, you moron.
 
2012-04-30 07:09:19 PM

Weaver95: ph0rk: I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,

that's merely a common reference point for the divine. the only way humans can really grasp eternity is within a religious framework. or higher mathmatics, but that gives me headaches.


I'm not sure why you need a reference to the divine, either.
 
2012-04-30 07:09:25 PM

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist.


789chan.org
 
2012-04-30 07:10:00 PM
There are a whole lot of ministers just like her.

NYT did a piece on them a while back.

All the politicizing of the faith is driving more and more people away from Christianity.

I'm not assuming they are all turning atheist, but I know more than a few people ashamed to call themselves Christian these days. They still do though. Cultural inertia is a biatch to overcome.
 
2012-04-30 07:10:21 PM

FloydA: (Jesus was [mostly] a pretty cool philosopher, and if the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes were the heart of Christianity, I would probably be a Christian. Paul was a dickweasel who took a good idea and turned it into a tribalist death cult, and his modern-day descendants would gladly crucify Jesus again for being a "hippy libtarded OWS Union thug.")


The heart of Christianity seems to require an understanding of the trinity (which I don't understand), an understanding that there's only one God (not so hard) and an understanding that believers must have faith that Jesus's crucifixion alone is sufficient for their salvation. (That last one is the tough one.) I think the Beatitudes were to attract followers.
 
2012-04-30 07:10:45 PM

meat0918: I'm not assuming they are all turning atheist, but I know more than a few people ashamed to call themselves Christian these days. They still do though. Cultural income inertia is a biatch to overcome


FTFM.
 
2012-04-30 07:10:52 PM
God is heat.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:02 PM

ph0rk: Weaver95: ph0rk: I'm just not seeing why you need a deity in the mix,

that's merely a common reference point for the divine. the only way humans can really grasp eternity is within a religious framework. or higher mathmatics, but that gives me headaches.

I'm not sure why you need a reference to the divine, either.


It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:12 PM

Somacandra: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God",

[upload.wikimedia.org image 267x386]

Speak for yourself. For some it really is a religion onto itself.

Great book--disillusioned WWII vet starts anti-God ministry in the South, becoming an antipriest.


Oh Jesus f*cking Christ. We get to have that conversation again.

No, atheism is *not* a religion. There is no more structure or dogmatic precepts to follow than there is to the realization that Yul Brynner does not in fact control everything from a command post in the center of the sun. This can be encapsulated by the "I"m going to go pursue my hobby of not collecting stamps" analogy.

Atheism is NOT the same as antitheism. Antitheism is a positive assertion of a particular set of ideas. Calling it a religion probably does it a disservice since that puts it on the same ground as Christianity and all the other relgions, but that's a different discussion.

People who start treating being an atheist like a religion have simply found a different thing to stop thinking critically about. The person in the article doesn't seem to have put a lot of critical thought into her situation.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:35 PM
If you are a minister for a religion that requires you believe in god you need to believe in god or you need to quite being a minister. If you are a doctor that doesn't believe in medicine you need to stop being a doctor. Sure, the consequences of being a minister who doesn't believe in god are much less severe and much more make believe, last rights don't really save you from a fictional damnation, but it is about being moral and honest. Besides, you can always just become a Unitarian Minister.

I'm out of the Atheist closet in about half my world. I struggle with how open to be on places like Facebook. I don't want to start a holy war with the extended family, but I'm starting to realize that maybe it's just not worth it if the extended family keeps posting posts about how Barack Hussein Obama is a secret Kenyan borne Muslim who kisses other men full on the lips and lies about who he considers his father and whether that person served in WWII. It may be time to prune the FB family tree. Barack Obama is a non-secret Keynesian Christian who has been photoshopped! One of the three people he considered a father did serve in WWII. He isn't coming for your guns, and he isn't going to raise your taxes, because you aren't rich.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:53 PM
I support her atheism and whatnot...but what a farking coont for lying to her congregation repeatedly. The only reason she didn't come out sooner was her financial worries? Fark you, lady.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:55 PM

FTA

"I'm currently an active pastor a scam artist bilking a church and I'm also an atheist," she says.




FiFY.
 
2012-04-30 07:12:17 PM

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.


I wish I had the blind faith to rape children, subjugate black people, facilitate the holocaust, mutilate children's genitalia, claim that you can buy your way into heaven, treat women as second class citizens, and believe in talking snakes.
 
2012-04-30 07:13:22 PM

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.


I am curious: do you suffer physical discomfort as a consequence of your mental incompetence, or does your intellectual inability instead result in an ongoing state of euphoria?
 
2012-04-30 07:13:27 PM

Marine1: It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.


Higher purpose? Why do you need a higher purpose? We're talking acquiring knowledge for oneself, not contributing to it or distributing it.

Know things just to know them. Because other people might not know them.
 
2012-04-30 07:13:45 PM

bugontherug: Weaver95: god is knowlege.

Pass the bong, bro. Also, God is my cat.


Rather, is God that peace that allows knowledge?
 
2012-04-30 07:14:08 PM

Weaver95: Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?

religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.


Pretty abstract. Do you mean instead that we know G/god via self-knowledge?
 
2012-04-30 07:14:09 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: Salt Lick Steady: Weaver95: god is knowlege. the more we learn, the closer we get to the divine. sharing knowlege, propigating information is how we bring other closer to the divine. blocking information, hiding knowledge is wrong..as is deliberately distorting knowledge or information.

is that what you'd call a religion?

religion, philosophy, way of life...call it what you'd like. god is knowledge.

Knowledge is knowledge. What does 'god' have to do with it?


The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans

www.deviantart.com
 
2012-04-30 07:14:55 PM

Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."


If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.
 
2012-04-30 07:15:30 PM

ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: ph0rk: Salt Lick Steady: She has to find another job and then tell her former congregation (after moving)?

She doesn't have to move but I'd imagine faith is a pretty important quality for a baptist minister to have. She should probably have stepped out of the role.

She was a methodist pastor. And when you go through that radical of a change, converting out of it is a brutal battle, and the way you go about it doesn't always live up to Farkistan standards.

It's just to keep getting paid. Must be nice to essentially dupe a congregation just to get a paycheck - not helping the image, that one.


From TFA:

She began applying for jobs, but when prospective employers asked why she wanted to leave the ministry, she didn't know what to say.

I didn't know you were required to provide all the gory details about why you left your last job. Just say "personality conflicts" of some such vague BS.

"I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," she says. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you."

Lolwut? She doesn't seem to fully grasp this whole atheist thing very well.
 
2012-04-30 07:16:08 PM

Bag of Hammers: The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans


The Omnissiah is just your dead corpse-emperor.

/Oh, and to think like an economist you'll probably have better life outcomes with more knowledge. Human capital and all.
 
2012-04-30 07:16:32 PM

Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.


Atheists work with knowledge, facts, and science, not faith.

Many Christians lack morals and lie to people so they'll keep getting paid.
 
2012-04-30 07:17:42 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Slam1263: I wish I had the blind faith needed to be an atheist. Or the lack of morals to lie to people, so that they'll keep paying me.

Some Atheists work with knowledge, facts, and science, not faith.

Many Christians lack morals and lie to people so they'll keep getting paid.


Not a monolithic group, not that you meant they were.
 
2012-04-30 07:17:49 PM

rocketpants: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

She outed herself, you moron.


The article strongly implies that she was outed to her congregation due to video of her at the convention going viral. There is nothing there stating that she ever came clean to the people she'd been lying to.
 
2012-04-30 07:18:01 PM
We've had more than a few threads on Fark about pharmacists who refuse to dispense the morning after pill because of their relgious convictions. If a pharmicist is fired for that, there's a huge hue and cry about them being repressed for their beliefs...

Well, now we have a case of this woman being fired for her beliefs. I'm sure the same ones who were so vocal in defense of the druggists, are equally supportive of this person.

Yeah, right.

But if anybody out there can explain to me the difference, I'd love to hear it.
 
2012-04-30 07:18:14 PM

OnlyM3: FTA
"I'm currently an active pastor a scam artist bilking a church and I'm also an atheist," she says.



FiFY.


Oh, you mean the church that bilked her out of a lifetime of meaningful work and experience by lying to her about the nature of the world and universe since the day she was born? Yeah, what a biatch.
 
2012-04-30 07:18:52 PM

Mad_Radhu: [wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com image 500x547]


Thank you, that made my day!
 
mjg
2012-04-30 07:18:54 PM
Alain de Botton's book Religion for Atheists is a pretty good read, especially for the atheists in the room.
 
2012-04-30 07:18:59 PM

austin_millbarge: Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.


This
 
2012-04-30 07:19:03 PM

kevinfra: We've had more than a few threads on Fark about pharmacists who refuse to dispense the morning after pill because of their relgious convictions. If a pharmicist is fired for that, there's a huge hue and cry about them being repressed for their beliefs...

Well, now we have a case of this woman being fired for her beliefs. I'm sure the same ones who were so vocal in defense of the druggists, are equally supportive of this person.

Yeah, right.

But if anybody out there can explain to me the difference, I'd love to hear it.


Heh. this makes me laugh.

/Congregation would just go somewhere else, though. Church would fail.
 
2012-04-30 07:19:20 PM

ph0rk: Marine1: It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.

Higher purpose? Why do you need a higher purpose? We're talking acquiring knowledge for oneself, not contributing to it or distributing it.

Know things just to know them. Because other people might not know them.


I think he may be talking about "spirituality". You know, religion for people with commitment issues.
 
2012-04-30 07:20:03 PM

fusillade762: ph0rk: Marine1: It doesn't exactly mean some bearded guy in the sky, it can mean a higher purpose better carried out through knowing things.

Higher purpose? Why do you need a higher purpose? We're talking acquiring knowledge for oneself, not contributing to it or distributing it.

Know things just to know them. Because other people might not know them.

I think he may be talking about "spirituality". You know, religion for people with commitment issues.


I am not a fan.
 
2012-04-30 07:20:42 PM

austin_millbarge: Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.


She's respecting his beliefs as much as he is respecting her. It doesn't sound like he's the type that will keep bringing it up that he's praying for her. Sounds like a very good man.
 
2012-04-30 07:21:00 PM

FirstNationalBastard: I couldn't get past her whole Emo Eureka moment thing...

[i6.photobucket.com image 624x352]


Is that an upgrade?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-30 07:21:20 PM

megalynn44: austin_millbarge: Sargun: "I believe in God," says her husband, Ray. "And to be honest, I pray for her every night, I got friends praying for her."

If I were her I'd tell him to Fark off. That kind of sanctimonious pity religious people throw out is a big part of the reason I avoid churches and religious groups like the plague. I'm an agnostic at best, and I'll get stabby if someone tells me they are praying for my soul because I don't believe.

This


This this.
 
2012-04-30 07:22:20 PM

Cheesus: She's respecting his beliefs as much as he is respecting her. It doesn't sound like he's the type that will keep bringing it up that he's praying for her. Sounds like a very good man.


While that may be generally true, a spouse that felt that strongly that I was in serious spiritual error would either lose major points for not confronting me (spine, please) or lose points for confronting me in a dogmatic way.

Really, either we have a long conversation and they lose their faith or we're done.
 
2012-04-30 07:23:37 PM
Heard her on the radio. What an idiot.
Does she really not see that the Atheist group is just another religion?

Meh. Atheist is just the new gay.
Tattoos were it once, then they became okay.
Then long hair or earrings on men.
Then gay. Now that that is accepted, it's time to become something else so people will look down on you and you can feel all underdoggy.

So it goes.
 
2012-04-30 07:24:33 PM

ds615: Heard her on the radio. What an idiot.
Does she really not see that the Atheist group is just another religion?

Meh. Atheist is just the new gay.
Tattoos were it once, then they became okay.
Then long hair or earrings on men.
Then gay. Now that that is accepted, it's time to become something else so people will look down on you and you can feel all underdoggy.

So it goes.


Quoting Vonnegut doesn't absolve you of that much derp.
 
2012-04-30 07:25:16 PM

ph0rk: Bag of Hammers: The Omnissiah frowns on your shenanigans

The Omnissiah is just your dead corpse-emperor.



4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-30 07:25:46 PM
My family doesn't know I'm an atheist and I don't ever want them to. I don't fear their reaction, they'd accept me and love me regardless. I don't want to tell them because they'd want to understand and would ask me about it, and I don't want any of my answers to insert even a sliver of doubt into their own faith. They're not evangelicals, their faith is private and doesn't hurt anyone (they support gay marriage and women's rights, for example) - who am I to even take even a little bit of spiritual comfort away from them?

I'm a reluctant atheist obviously, I wish I could have faith in something so that in 50 or 60 years when I'm on my deathbed I'm calm and looking forward to what's next. Instead I'll be laying there in stark terror knowing that it's all over and there's nothing I can do about it. I wouldn't wish atheism on anyone. Hell I wish I could be agnostic at the least.
 
2012-04-30 07:26:08 PM

fusillade762: ph0rk:

"I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," she says. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you."

Lolwut? She doesn't seem to fully grasp this whole atheist thing very well.


She's new, give her some time.
 
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