People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

I came.

as an atheist

everywhere

"comes as an Atheist"?

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Considering how rampant the Prosperity Gospel is in American Protestant Churches, I'd say they're unwittingly worshipping Garl Glittergold.

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

I don't understand it either, but for someone who has been blind their entire life, it might be really helpful. With just coming out to her Christian community, she'd probably be driven to suicide. At least she got a positive affirmation before she got showered with hate from good Christians.

Considering this happened in the Panhandle of Florida, I imagine that her congregation welcomed her new beliefs with an open mind.

/not really

"The questions haunted her: Is Jesus the only way to God?"

Answer: No

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

I don't think the existence of anything is determined by the number of people that profess belief in it. (Where's your change now?!? amiright?!1)

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

Some people tend to obsess over things, atheism is no different from other beliefs in that regard. Some people simply take it further than others.

Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.

"One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god. Take Jesus as your savior, I was told, and you can smile as He hurls countless others into a lake of fire, including the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Anne Frank and all those friends and neighbors of yours who don't "believe" in him. I found this idea pagan and ugly. Don't try to be superior to God, I was told. His ways are mysterious. Well, I wanted my ways to be moral, merciful, kind and just. I may fail every day at this but I want to try. This is a magnificent world we live in; surely it wasn't made solely for a fiery apocalypse. To love, to serve, to witness, to try to do something meaningful - that is what makes sense to me"
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion which does a great deal of harm in the world. Christians in America spend millions trying to influence legislation and elections to limit the rights of women and the rights of gays. They do not leave the rest of us alone. They do not respect the rest of us. I fear this. I wish those who call themselves Christians, and claim to be loving and good, would take some real moral responsibility for their religion and the things it has done historically and the things it is doing now. ~ Anne Rice

skinnycatullus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird

I'd never go to a convention, but "coming out" makes sense because it is often a very difficult step to take. If I were gay, I'd much rather tell my parents that than that I am an atheist. For lots of us, there is overwhelming pressure from family regarding religion. For me, it isn't a question of whether they would shun me (they wouldn't), but it would absolutely destroy them emotionally to know I don't believe anymore.

If she came out as gay, she might have gotten less hate.

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

In a society where atheists are trusted less than lawyers and politicians, it is perfectly reasonable for atheists to gather for social and moral support.

I come as an atheist at least once a day.

Twice if I'm bored.

It's hard to come as a christian.

The guilt. The shame of my own body. Knowing that god is murdering a kitten because I can't stop touching the dick he gave me.

Hard to come as a christian. So instead I just interfere with women's rights and social progress instead of jerking it when I feel christian. By the looks of it. I'm not alone.

The local TV station, WCTV, ran a series of stories about MacBain, interviewing her boss but never MacBain herself. Hundreds of people wrote comments on the site, and MacBain says they were painful to read.

Let me just say that for a TV station website from Tallahassee, it's pretty much what I expected.

I ask myself... how can I tell there is a God? Well, I asked God for a sandwich. None appeared. Mere moments later, I made myself a sandwich. It was delicious.

Now, was that divine inspiration from a benevolent god, that drove me to make a sandwich? Or was it convenience that brought me, my ability to make a sandwich, all the necessary ingredients, motivations, etc that allowed for such a thing to come to pass? Or perhaps something else entirely?

I don't know. As of now there is no test for God. While others argue and persecute and kvetch about it, I will have a sandwich.

Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

For many people, coming out as an atheist is a huge paradigm shift. Many people may scorn them, and like anything else that is potentially life altering, it helps to have a support channel. What's the deal with gay people coming out of the closet, and needing support? Just put the dick in your mouth and be happy.

I'm far too ignorant to say one way or the other if there is a deity in the universe, I lean heavily towards 'no'; but I've seen too much crazy shiat in my life to discount it completely. Then again, it's some of that crazy shiat I've seen in my life that also turned me from faith in a deity in the first place.

No true god would allow the things I've seen, however things in life can also be so intricate and beautiful that it makes me ponder if there is a higher intelligence. At the end of the day, I look to science first.

So what are you, Teresa? A faithless preacher? Or a mean motherfarkin' servant of God?

RibbyK: [cdn3.sbnation.com image 322x410]

I would change that to say exhilarating, if I were not at work, where everything sucks.

I'm an atheist, my wife is not. We've been married for 31 years. Although it was discussed in a civil manner in the early years, it has never been a source of contention.

I've heard of this kind of thing. They need to see what they like about ministry, get a degree in that field and get a secular job. If they like running the operation, they can get an administrative job at a small business. If they like the soup kitchen, they can go into food services. If they like counseling, they can becomes social workers or licensed family therapists.

But they need to doff the clerical garb and get out of the business. It's no fair to anyone and it's unethical to be an atheist telling people stories about the invisible sky wizard.

I love the fact that they 'hated' her at first. Good thing you left your religion for the right reasons.

A minister turned atheist does not deserve ridicule and spite. They deserve love and compassion.

/I mean, were you people even paying attention in church!

Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

What I find weird are the people who were supposedly atheist who then found religion. Their stories about finding faith are odd and are usually rooted in some shoddy belief system of what they think Atheism is.

"I was sitting in the park thinking about the Great Flood and realized that atheism, the belief that you hate God, doesn't answer the questions behind the Great Flood. Right there I became a Christian."

It's like certain Christians take one for the team, and become phony reconverts claiming to be Atheist and then switching back over.

I think her congregation has a right to be upset. Its tough finding out someone you trusted as a guide and leader, whose teachings and wisdom you followed for a long time, was living through doubt, and eventually lies, and never trusted you enough in return to be honest.

Also the way it happened wasn't so cool. The ethical thing to do would have been to speak to her flock first. Apologize for not being honest sooner, be honest with her feelings, express her love for them and the value she still placed in their relationships. Not go somewhere else and publicly announce it, then get upset at the backlash.

I'd be willing to bet if she went back to her old community in a little while, some of the hurt would have dissipated, and the good ones among the flock would be open to continuing relationships.

As far as the skills and employment, that part sucks... if she could find the money for school you'd think she could slide over to a councilling type job easily enough.

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Jesus is just a man. You'd be that way too. If you were free from sin (and all anxiety).

Bless us oh father.

Well, seeing as her church was going against scripture for the onset, I don't find this surprising.

1 tim 2:12
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Mrtraveler01: The local TV station, WCTV, ran a series of stories about MacBain, interviewing her boss but never MacBain herself. Hundreds of people wrote comments on the site, and MacBain says they were painful to read.

Let me just say that for a TV station website from Tallahassee, it's pretty much what I expected.


by Lori Location: Pery on Apr 23, 2012 at 02:05 PM
She says that she use to be a "hater", but a true Christian doesn't hate. She may have turned her back on God, but HE will still be there for her if she wants to turn back.

Good point, that reduces the number of true Christians to... 17. World wide.

skinnycatullus: Cagey B: Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird

I'd never go to a convention, but "coming out" makes sense because it is often a very difficult step to take. If I were gay, I'd much rather tell my parents that than that I am an atheist. For lots of us, there is overwhelming pressure from family regarding religion. For me, it isn't a question of whether they would shun me (they wouldn't), but it would absolutely destroy them emotionally to know I don't believe anymore.

My family was never too big of a deal. My grandfather supported whatever decision I made with my life, and my grandmother thought it was just a phase. It's the community that got me. They flat out turn their backs on you like you're the most despicable thing to ever grace their presence. Not sure what I would've done without a few close friends and the internet. I don't know that I would've gone to a convention without those things, but I can't say for sure.

These things aren't for everyone, but they certainly help a lot of people. They're something that isn't considered normal or socially acceptable. They've hidden or denied it for whatever reason, and this is their way of saying 'Fark you all, this is who I am and I'm proud of it.' Again, not for me, but more power to them.

EdNortonsTwin: "The questions haunted her: Is Jesus the only way to God Why does God need a starship?"

chuggernaught: A minister turned atheist does not deserve ridicule and spite. They deserve love and compassion.

/I mean, were you people even paying attention in church!

Have you ever been to church? Nobody pays attention in church.

Theeng: Cagey B: People had every right to be upset that someone professing to be something they weren't didn't have the stones to be straight with them until she was outed.

Also, I find these "conventions" and "coming out" when it comes to atheism to be really weird. It's not the "Religion of No God", it's the lack of belief. People that do this kind of stuff give the same vibe as Scientologists and addicts who move on to some obsessive substitute for whatever it was they were into.

Some people tend to obsess over things, atheism is no different from other beliefs in that regard. Some people simply take it further than others.

Other than that I totally agree, people have a right to be angry that you basically lied to them, especially if it's something that important to them.

God can live with the knowledge that one less person believes in him, I'm sure they can too.

"So what the hell am I supposed to do?" she asks in one recording, her voice sounding desperate. "Really, the options are work at something like Starbucks or McDonald's - and even there they're going to ask those questions. I could even clean houses and not make a great amount of money - but at least nobody would be asking me questions."

Unitarians need preachers too. There's even atheist chaplains nowadays. Just because you're an unbeliever doesn't mean you can't still be a minister.

Coelacanth: "One reason I fear Christianity is that I believe it pressures one to accept an immoral god . . . . "
- Anne Rice [via Facebook Post]

As I said before, I fear Christianity. I have found it to be an immoral religion. And I have found it to be a very very aggressive religion . . . . . ~ Anne Rice


Just to be sure you're not quoting out of context, here's more from Wiki:

Renunciation of Organized Religion
On July 29, 2010, Rice publicly renounced her dedication to Christianity on her Facebook page:

"For those who care, and I understand if you don't: Today I quit being a Christian. I'm out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being "Christian" or to being part of Christianity. It's simply impossible for me to "belong" to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I've tried. I've failed. I'm an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else."[61]

A few hours later she clarified her motives:
"In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."[61]

She reaffirmed her faith in Christ with a stance of non-adherence to organized Christianity an hour or so later:
"My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn't understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me. But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been, or might become."[62]

Subsequently, in an interview, Rice further clarified her statements:
"My commitment to Christ remains at the heart and center of my life. Transformation in Him is radical and ongoing. That I feel now that I am called to be an outsider for Him, to step away from the words, "Christian" and "Christianity" is something that my conscience demands of me. I feel that my faith in Him demands this of me. I know of no other way to express how I must remove myself from those things which seek to separate me from Him."


Personally, I agree with some of her angles, but don't know that I'd "renounce" Christianity altogether--just the more bureaucratic sects (such as Catholicism) .

Weaver95: I'm starting to wonder if jesus isn't THE god, but one of many gods. I know for certain that a lot of the evangelicals here in the US certainly are faithful...but they're not worshiping Christ. that 'old time religion' they like so much has more in common with old pagan gods than it does with the religion of christ.

just a thought.

Hey, are you a Mormon? Apostasy befell all. At least that's their story.

Head up, brave lady. You got support

I was raised in a religious family, but grew up basically atheist. I say basically because I don't believe in anything like the concept of "God" in the Christian sense of the word.

Although there may well be forces at play in the universe, I don't think they are necessarily sentient or have a good/evil duality to them. They just are, and don't require our acknowledgement or worship.