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(Christian Science Monitor)   Yeah, about that whole "Wind farms cause global warming" thing   (csmonitor.com) divider line 57
    More: Followup, global warming, Wind farms cause, second law of thermodynamics, environmental scientist, thermal energy, wind farms, warm air, wind energy  
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5320 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Apr 2012 at 8:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 04:44:34 PM
way to deflate the Hurr Durr team's headlines
 
2012-04-30 05:11:01 PM
Well, there went GOP support.
 
2012-04-30 06:14:26 PM
Uh, the fact that it was a local phenomenon was clearly stated in the original story

/that's why we ripped on the headline so much
//and as was pointed out in that thread, the data was "preliminary" at best
 
2012-04-30 06:15:34 PM
The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.
 
2012-04-30 06:21:28 PM

EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.


^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?
 
2012-04-30 06:39:55 PM

Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?


Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.
 
2012-04-30 06:40:54 PM

gameshowhost: Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?

Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.


We'd be more likely to end up with rings like Uranus

/not nearly as cool
 
2012-04-30 07:08:28 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: gameshowhost: Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?

Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.

We'd be more likely to end up with rings like Uranus

/not nearly as cool


A planet that has prolapsed is no fun at all.
 
2012-04-30 07:13:23 PM
...and Fox's spin pretty much made me decide that the next school board meeting that I go to that I push for Physics as well as Civics courses be a requisite for graduation...
 
2012-04-30 08:02:44 PM
Maybe if we put a giant bowl of ice in front of each turbine...
 
2012-04-30 08:18:58 PM
Yeah, but who really believed that?

...besides GeneralJim?
 
2012-04-30 08:19:11 PM
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-04-30 08:21:51 PM
And will a single retraction or clarification be made on the sites that ran the article claiming that wind farms cause global warming be given, the answer to that question is a 95% of no. And so many people will go on believing that the article was true and we will hear 10 years from now some idiot point this out as if it was fact.

And that is the current definition of fair and balanced news.
 
2012-04-30 08:23:08 PM

2wolves: MaudlinMutantMollusk: gameshowhost: Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?

Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.

We'd be more likely to end up with rings like Uranus

/not nearly as cool

A planet that has prolapsed is no fun at all.

media.comicvine.com
 
2012-04-30 08:27:05 PM

2wolves: MaudlinMutantMollusk: gameshowhost: Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?

Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.

We'd be more likely to end up with rings like Uranus

/not nearly as cool

A planet that has prolapsed is no fun at all.


Brought to you by the Coal Institute of America. Coal for America: because only homos like wind. You're not a homo, are you?
 
2012-04-30 08:41:50 PM

Rapmaster2000: 2wolves: MaudlinMutantMollusk: gameshowhost: Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.

^This. All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.

Is that what you really want? Is it?

Will we end up with rings like Saturn? That could be cool.

We'd be more likely to end up with rings like Uranus

/not nearly as cool

A planet that has prolapsed is no fun at all.

Brought to you by the Coal Institute of America. Coal for America: because only homos like wind. You're not a homo, are you?


Well, I...I like to read.
 
2012-04-30 08:52:14 PM
Sometimes the media is so dumb it's scary. There was precisely nothing in the story linking wind turbines to global warming, short of the mere existence of the word "warming".

TFA: Rather than inform the public's perception on climate change, exaggerated coverage of this study has merely justified the common distrust scientists have for journalists.

THIS, THIS, and more THIS. The worst part will be seeing variants of "windmills cause global warming" in laypeople GW flamewars for the next twenty years.
 
2012-04-30 09:04:45 PM
North-south billboards are a problem also. Billboards should only be east- west.
 
2012-04-30 09:09:36 PM

EvilEgg: North-south billboards are a problem also. Billboards should only be east- west.


They're like... passive wind farms. Only more, y'know.... gay.
 
2012-04-30 09:13:12 PM
WHAT?! Wind farms don't contribute to global warming? THIS IS SO UNBELIEVABLE I THINK I WILL CRAP MY PANTS.

Marcus Aurelius: All that westward blowing air will accelerate the planet's rotation until it literally spins apart.


But on the upside, the days will be shorter. Do we really need 24 whole hours in a day? In our modern age, I think not.
 
2012-04-30 09:14:51 PM
The whole thing is word games with pseudoscience.

Want to cool the surface temperature? Plant a tree

Lots of things impact the local ground temperature. Those turbines can move a lot of heat. First, they are much like a giant radiator. They will heat-up in the sun and move that heat more rapidly into the ground. Likewise, at night that heat will get radiated back into the surrounding air. In addition, the rotation of the blades will bend the flow of the wind, essentially providing a slight atmospheric stirring from 0 to 400'.
 
2012-04-30 09:27:08 PM
What? No "Windmills do not work that way goodnight?"
 
2012-04-30 09:38:25 PM

Frederf: What? No "Windmills do not work that way goodnight?"


i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-30 09:41:21 PM
Scientists: Humans pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the air per year will likely cause worldwide global warming from 2 to 6 degrees Celsius, assuming a doubling of CO2 contents from pre-industrial levels.

Fox news: Socialist conspiracy! Humans can't change the climate no matter how hard they try!

Scientists: Windmills may cause very local warming due to a mixing of air at different elevations.

Fox news: Green energy will anthropogenically warm the earth! Don't trust those hippy environmentalists!

/Fox news: willing to believe in some forms of anthropogenic warming, but not others, as long as it suits their agenda
 
2012-04-30 09:45:02 PM
Also, we had a pretty good laugh at work today over this whole deal. Made troubleshooting our wind turbines a bit more entertaining.
 
2012-04-30 09:47:10 PM

Frederf: What? No "Windmills do not work that way goodnight?"


You didn't read the article, did you?
 
2012-04-30 09:59:55 PM
FTA: A recent study published in Nature Climate Change suggests that large wind farms could be pulling down hot air at night, raising the average temperature of the local region. The results of the study, however, have been widely misconstrued in the news media.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.
 
2012-04-30 10:08:03 PM
Since when has accuracy or science been involved in global warming reporting?

/sorry...... global climate change reporting.
 
2012-04-30 10:43:04 PM
Look, the science is obvious:

Whenever turbines move in the wind, there's friction. Friction leads to heat. These are known physical facts. Obviously this adds a lot more heat to the atmosphere and environment than coal and oil, since those are nice and cool from sitting in the earth for thousands of years. Don't pay any attention to the people who talk about the fire from the coal and oil - that's just people trying to cloud the issue.
 
2012-04-30 10:56:38 PM
Pulling down WHAT hot air... the air against the imaginary glass ceiling at twenty thousand feet?

They're converting wind force into heat energy by inducing turbulence through friction. The gear boxes on these things generate TONS of heat. Whenever one's clutch fails to release when the winds go over the maximum limit the gearboxes commonly EXPLODE IN FLAMES from the amount of heat they generate. Consider the induction heat of the power lines down the tower and across under the ground alone!
 
2012-04-30 11:00:55 PM

prjindigo: Pulling down WHAT hot air... the air against the imaginary glass ceiling at twenty thousand feet?


The air above the surface radiation inversion is warmer. Cold air on a still night forms a bubble near the ground.
 
2012-04-30 11:20:25 PM

prjindigo: Pulling down WHAT hot air... the air against the imaginary glass ceiling at twenty thousand feet?

They're converting wind force into heat energy by inducing turbulence through friction. The gear boxes on these things generate TONS of heat. Whenever one's clutch fails to release when the winds go over the maximum limit the gearboxes commonly EXPLODE IN FLAMES from the amount of heat they generate. Consider the induction heat of the power lines down the tower and across under the ground alone!


Friction heating is negligible. This is mostly about vertical advection.
 
2012-05-01 12:11:20 AM

prjindigo: Whenever one's clutch fails to release when the winds go over the maximum limit the gearboxes commonly EXPLODE IN FLAMES from the amount of heat they generate. Consider the induction heat of the power lines down the tower and across under the ground alone!


Umm, most modern wind turbines don't have "clutch's" in their gearboxes. Their primary braking system is using the blades as an air brake and then secondary brake caliper's on a brake disk on the high speed shaft side. Most wind turbine gearbox failures come from too much moisture in the gearbox oil. I know our gearbox failure that we had a few years ago didn't erupt in flames either. It just broke the casing in half and then dumped 100 gallons of oil down the tower. Mind you this is a 2MW machine as well and was operating at it's rated power when this happened. We're more scared of a gearbox oil pump motor failure burning down our towers at the moment. Pic related:

i.imgur.com

/yes that blue crap used to be cooling fan blades
//motor casing paint used to be blue, was orange when we found it
 
2012-05-01 12:16:52 AM

EvilEgg: The extra drag slows down the rotation of the earth.


Someone call for extra drag?
 
2012-05-01 12:27:21 AM

J. Frank Parnell: [i0.kym-cdn.com image 273x200]


Is that supposed to be Nicholas Cage?
 
2012-05-01 12:36:40 AM

DrGunsforHands: J. Frank Parnell: [i0.kym-cdn.com image 273x200]

Is that supposed to be Nicholas Cage?


Yes, except traced out from the original just like every other image Reddit uses. Reddit's not exactly original with their image macro's.
 
2012-05-01 12:38:20 AM

DrGunsforHands: Is that supposed to be Nicholas Cage?


c.cslacker.com
 
2012-05-01 02:37:53 AM

lousyskater: prjindigo: Whenever one's clutch fails to release when the winds go over the maximum limit the gearboxes commonly EXPLODE IN FLAMES from the amount of heat they generate.

How often does this happen?
Consider the induction heat of the power lines down the tower and across under the ground alone!

WTF?

Umm, most modern wind turbines don't have "clutch's" in their gearboxes. Their primary braking system is using the blades as an air brake and then secondary brake caliper's on a brake disk on the high speed shaft side. Most wind turbine gearbox failures come from too much moisture in the gearbox oil. I know our gearbox failure that we had a few years ago didn't erupt in flames either. It just broke the casing in half and then dumped 100 gallons of oil down the tower. Mind you this is a 2MW machine as well and was operating at it's rated power when this happened. We're more scared of a gearbox oil pump motor failure burning down our towers at the moment. Pic related:

[i.imgur.com image 640x382]

/yes that blue crap used to be cooling fan blades
//motor casing paint used to be blue, was orange when we found it


t1.gstatic.com
(Not my pic)
THIS happens almost every time the main bearings seize on an ICE generator. You get smoke, flames, and some pretty impressive explosions.
I'd bet this happens about as often as lousyskater has a seized flaming gearbox, and for the same reasons.
Machines break.
What prjindigo is biatching about is derp, as usual.
 
2012-05-01 04:43:20 AM
What if the cyber-terrorists deploy some sort of Stuxnet for windmills that makes 'em all turn backwards and the planet's rotation slows?! WHAT THEN?!!
 
2012-05-01 05:07:05 AM
Yeah, that whole "Wind farms anything is causeing global warming" thing

www.woodfortrees.org

About that....
 
2012-05-01 05:16:26 AM

madgonad: Want to cool the surface temperature? Plant a tree


That would be a tree near the equator. If you want to warm the planet plant a tree nearer the pole than the equator. The problem (and by implication, the solution) is not as simple as most people think...

WhyteRaven74: DrGunsforHands: Is that supposed to be Nicholas Cage?

[c.cslacker.com image 640x384]


www.goodtimecharlieblog.com

No. THIS is supposed to be Nicholas Cage.
 
2012-05-01 06:17:25 AM

Frederf: What? No "Windmills do not work that way goodnight?"


Since we are discussing wind turbines, no.
 
2012-05-01 06:28:26 AM
Regardless of the topic, is anyone seriously considering a website that has science and a religious connotations in its name? I do however like this bit though;

Yet exaggerated interpolation seems to be stock-in-trade for many of the media outlets covering this story.

Replace 'this story' with climate change and BHAM you got it right in the kisser.
 
2012-05-01 08:44:07 AM

Ramien: Look, the science is obvious:

Whenever turbines move in the wind, there's friction. Friction leads to heat. These are known physical facts. Obviously this adds a lot more heat to the atmosphere and environment than coal and oil, since those are nice and cool from sitting in the earth for thousands of years. Don't pay any attention to the people who talk about the fire from the coal and oil - that's just people trying to cloud the issue.


That was a wonderful touch.
 
2012-05-01 08:50:41 AM
Carbon dioxide is clearly to blame.
 
2012-05-01 10:52:47 AM

Periodic Disorder: Regardless of the topic, is anyone seriously considering a website that has science and a religious connotations in its name?


You do if you have the slightest idea of what the Christian Science Monitor is. Otherwise the name might throw you off.
 
2012-05-01 12:17:07 PM
I grew up in Southern California, was an avid comic book reader and a sucker for any cockamamie story my older brother threw at me. When I was eight my family set off on our vacation in Flagstaff, AR following Hwy 58 through Tehachapi. If anyone has ever been to Tehachapi, CA, there are hillsides covered in windmills, thousands of 'em! Enough farking windmills for me to take notice and put down my Superman comic and look out onto this army of Don Quixote-esque nightmare machines. My brother then takes it upon himself to educate me on the importance of these windmills. He gives me his spiel that the windmills were built and put there by LexCorp and was all part of Lex Luthor's nefarious plan to break California off from the mainland of the states to steal all of the oil on the Pacific Coast and enslave all its citizens. I of course ate it all up and believed it. It wasn't until I turned ten and had to do a class report on windmills did I find the truth.

And that's why I like Windmills.
 
2012-05-01 02:52:52 PM
Yet exaggerated interpolation seems to be stock-in-trade for many of the media outlets covering this story. Take, for example, FOX News' headline: Wind farms are warming the Earth,


LOL.. seriously.. WHO goes to fox news for actual science news?
 
2012-05-01 08:07:56 PM

Vince Russo: I grew up in Southern California, was an avid comic book reader and a sucker for any cockamamie story my older brother threw at me. When I was eight my family set off on our vacation in Flagstaff, AR following Hwy 58 through Tehachapi. If anyone has ever been to Tehachapi, CA, there are hillsides covered in windmills, thousands of 'em! Enough farking windmills for me to take notice and put down my Superman comic and look out onto this army of Don Quixote-esque nightmare machines. My brother then takes it upon himself to educate me on the importance of these windmills. He gives me his spiel that the windmills were built and put there by LexCorp and was all part of Lex Luthor's nefarious plan to break California off from the mainland of the states to steal all of the oil on the Pacific Coast and enslave all its citizens. I of course ate it all up and believed it. It wasn't until I turned ten and had to do a class report on windmills did I find the truth.

And that's why I like Windmills.


Wind Turbines*. They don't mill anything.
 
2012-05-01 08:43:38 PM

lousyskater: Vince Russo: I grew up in Southern California, was an avid comic book reader and a sucker for any cockamamie story my older brother threw at me. When I was eight my family set off on our vacation in Flagstaff, AR following Hwy 58 through Tehachapi. If anyone has ever been to Tehachapi, CA, there are hillsides covered in windmills, thousands of 'em! Enough farking windmills for me to take notice and put down my Superman comic and look out onto this army of Don Quixote-esque nightmare machines. My brother then takes it upon himself to educate me on the importance of these windmills. He gives me his spiel that the windmills were built and put there by LexCorp and was all part of Lex Luthor's nefarious plan to break California off from the mainland of the states to steal all of the oil on the Pacific Coast and enslave all its citizens. I of course ate it all up and believed it. It wasn't until I turned ten and had to do a class report on windmills did I find the truth.

And that's why I like Windmills.

Wind Turbines*. They don't mill anything.


Other than the occasional wind turbine worker?
 
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