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(BBC)   It's Manc-on-Manc action as United and City fight for the EPL title on Monday, followed by a midweek orgy of 4th-6th place battles featuring Chelsea, Spurs and Newcastle   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 329
    More: Cool, Egyptian Premier League, Man Utd, Manchester City, Newcastle, shoot out tournament, Match of the Day, Lawro, Red Devils  
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433 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 May 2012 at 2:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-01 04:28:41 PM

dietbubba: ESPN gametracker is nothing but red triangles for Liverpool shots and the one black one at the other end for the own goal


liverpool have looked very poor today. sadly, they deserve to be on the losing side.
 
2012-05-01 04:29:22 PM

StRalphTheLiar: Yes they are - in an attempt to keep up with City and Chelsea. That's what I'm talking about regarding the new money destroying the wage structure. Now you have Liverpool and United taking on massive debt trying to remain at the top, and there absolutely is the risk of a Rangers or even Leeds style collapse.


When Glazer took over United, he took out a loan and is now using United's money to pay that loan back.

That is the one and only reason why the club is in debt.
 
2012-05-01 04:34:55 PM

socalnewwaver: dietbubba: ESPN gametracker is nothing but red triangles for Liverpool shots and the one black one at the other end for the own goal

liverpool have looked very poor today. sadly, they deserve to be on the losing side.


Never thought we'd be behind fulham in the table
 
2012-05-01 04:37:22 PM
After Saturday's stinker of a game, Fulham played a tidy game today. Totally deserve the win.
 
2012-05-01 04:43:56 PM
I believe that's 30 wins in 208 away games for Fulham.
 
2012-05-01 04:44:28 PM

dietbubba: socalnewwaver: dietbubba: ESPN gametracker is nothing but red triangles for Liverpool shots and the one black one at the other end for the own goal

liverpool have looked very poor today. sadly, they deserve to be on the losing side.

Never thought we'd be behind fulham in the table


The footballing Gods saw how they treated Woy and are doling out some justice. Besides, I think people are giving Fulham too little credit. On paper, they aren't that much worse if you ask me. Dempsey has been better than any Liverpool player this season...
 
2012-05-01 04:45:30 PM
according to ESPN

60% Time of Possession 41%

101% WHAT IS THIS SORCERY

FA conspiracy
 
2012-05-01 04:46:52 PM

689908: I believe that's 30 wins in 208 away games for Fulham.


Despite being a decent squad in the last few seasons, their away records has remained DIRE. Anyone have any theories?
 
2012-05-01 04:48:59 PM
Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings.
 
2012-05-01 04:50:30 PM
Also there's this: Link

"With a 1-0 win, #USMNT @Clint_Dempsey and Fulham have collected their first ever victory at Liverpool dating back to 1934!"
 
2012-05-01 04:57:54 PM

StRalphTheLiar: TheMatchHare:
Since it's inception, the Premier League title has always gone to a big-spending team (even Blackburn, hard as it is to think of now). Why have people seemingly been more upset with this fact for Chelsea & City than previously? It we were talking about City vs Swans for the title, that would be one thing, but United can hardly complain. United have become masterful at poaching other club's young talent before the cost became prohibitive and their current ownership's debts steal far too much of the club's income, but these facts by no means makes them anything but among the richest clubs on the planet. ...and, in my opinion, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Just as I have no problems with Chelsea & CIty's sugar daddy's.

Now, if they ownership was setting up the club for a potentially monumental financial disaster, like Rangers in Scotland, then it's a different discussion altogether, but that's not the case here... I just don't understand the outrage by any club's fans that are around the top of the tables.

I get what you are saying, but Chelsea and City are blowing up the wage structure completely. Clubs like United are wealthy, but have limits. City and Chelsea have essentially unlimited amounts of cash, and as a result are willing and able to overpay players just to prevent them from playing for a rival.

Here's a timely article on the subject. City has an average wage about $2 million over even very wealthy clubs like United, Liverpool and Arsenal.


Chelsea and City pale next to Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Also, Chelsea is on pace to make a profit this year, if they at least match last year's gross earnings ~ £220m. They've got about £100m in salary and around £62m in transfer fees paid this year.
 
2012-05-01 05:04:27 PM

dietbubba: socalnewwaver: dietbubba: ESPN gametracker is nothing but red triangles for Liverpool shots and the one black one at the other end for the own goal

liverpool have looked very poor today. sadly, they deserve to be on the losing side.

Never thought we'd be behind fulham in the table


the wheels fell off the day lucas was done for the season. it's hard to believe, at this point, that we were once actually within sniffing distance of a cl spot.
 
2012-05-01 05:07:37 PM

Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings


but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.
 
2012-05-01 05:29:55 PM

socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.


Yeah just ask Arsenal how they feel about having the league cup trophy. At least they get to play in Europe, let alone champions league. I'm sure 10th place is ok with you as long as you have the league cup trophy!

Also United has the Community Shield, a trophy worth just about as much as the league cup trophy considering you had to beat Cardiff on PKs to get it!
 
2012-05-01 05:33:05 PM

socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA....setting that bar oh so high. Pathetic.
 
2012-05-01 05:52:28 PM

Stimied in a Rut: socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.

Yeah just ask Arsenal how they feel about having the league cup trophy. At least they get to play in Europe, let alone champions league. I'm sure 10th place is ok with you as long as you have the league cup trophy!

Also United has the Community Shield, a trophy worth just about as much as the league cup trophy considering you had to beat Cardiff on PKs to get it!


A feat so easy that United could do it, amirite.
 
2012-05-01 05:57:59 PM

TonnageVT: socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA....setting that bar oh so high. Pathetic.


But in the end well have more trophies than United.....period.
 
2012-05-01 06:15:13 PM

689908: StRalphTheLiar: Yes they are - in an attempt to keep up with City and Chelsea. That's what I'm talking about regarding the new money destroying the wage structure. Now you have Liverpool and United taking on massive debt trying to remain at the top, and there absolutely is the risk of a Rangers or even Leeds style collapse.

When Glazer took over United, he took out a loan and is now using United's money to pay that loan back.

That is the one and only reason why the club is in debt.


Glazer bought the club primarily with money borrowed using Manchester United itself as the collateral. Due to that takeover and the perception that finances were overshadowing football several supporters abandoned Man U in disgust and formed the brilliant, 100% fan-owned FC United of Manchester.

/IMO greatest team in England.
 
2012-05-01 07:16:30 PM

ScouserDuck: Stimied in a Rut: socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.

Yeah just ask Arsenal how they feel about having the league cup trophy. At least they get to play in Europe, let alone champions league. I'm sure 10th place is ok with you as long as you have the league cup trophy!

Also United has the Community Shield, a trophy worth just about as much as the league cup trophy considering you had to beat Cardiff on PKs to get it!

A feat so easy that United could do it, amirite.


No they couldn't having to deal with actually attempting to win the league and a spot in Europe. Something that Pool couldn't be bothered with!
 
2012-05-01 08:02:48 PM

Stimied in a Rut: ScouserDuck: Stimied in a Rut: socalnewwaver: Stimied in a Rut: Should Everton beat Wolves this weekend, they are guaranteeing to finish above Liverpool in the standings

but in the end, we'll have more trophies than man u this season, so we got that going for us.

Yeah just ask Arsenal how they feel about having the league cup trophy. At least they get to play in Europe, let alone champions league. I'm sure 10th place is ok with you as long as you have the league cup trophy!

Also United has the Community Shield, a trophy worth just about as much as the league cup trophy considering you had to beat Cardiff on PKs to get it!

A feat so easy that United could do it, amirite.

No they couldn't having to deal with actually attempting to win the league and a spot in Europe. Something that Pool couldn't be bothered with!


I guess we'll see how that works out. If city can successfully not fark up, united will go 0 fer 5 (again, community shield is an exhibition game, not a tournament). Good thing they focused on what they deemed "important".

Not to mention that your assertion that Liverpool couldn't be bothered to try is false. Liverpool did try. They had a terrible season. Got an unfortunate ruling with the Suarez situation. And were significantly unlucky losing a significant number of games when they dominated possession and shots on goal. But even with all that. During a terrible year where Liverpool might finish in the bottom half, they won 1 trophy and are in the final for another. United need to hope city farks up to get the only prize they can at this point.

But you're right, focusing "works". Just ask Arsenal.
 
2012-05-01 10:32:47 PM
Oh man, now you're dragging Arsenal into the pissing match? Okay, fine.

Arsenal has had a disappointing season. That the Gunners are where they are has been some decent play when they really needed it, a transcendent season by Van Persie, and quite a few lucky breaks.

A lot of fans (myself included) wanted Arsene to spend a lot of money in the January transfer window. He didn't, and at the time I thought it was a mistake. Hard to argue with what the team has managed to accomplish without any purchases, though.

I do like Arsenal's fiscal responsibility. And if the spending rules are ever enforced, I believe they're already poised to take advantage of it.
 
2012-05-02 06:07:11 AM
How timely. From The Guardian today:

In a phrase which sounds authoritative but radiates helplessness, the Premier League declares itself "ownership neutral" meaning it has no preference for any structure on which England's great football clubs have come to be orchestrated. So the Manchester derby, which could decide the league's destiny in its 20th season, was among its myriad themes a contest between one club, City, whose owner has invested £1bn, and the other, United, the Glazers have drained of £500m.

Margins are fine, City's victory was only 1-0, they lead by just goal difference, two games remain and United, as Roberto Mancini continues to insist, could still win it. Yet Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan's squad of world‑class players assembled for Mancini, faced a United of veterans and promising youngsters who suddenly looked the product of the Glazers' taking culture.

The eyewatering £500m has been paid out of Old Trafford, from money forked out by fans in increased ticket prices, and TV and commercial income, to pay bankers, lawyers and accountants black holes of interest, fees and one-off charges. It has poured out in just seven years from the Glazers borrowing £525m to take over the greatest of clubs, then making the club liable to service their borrowings.

Sir Alex Ferguson has maintained success in that period, winning the Premier League four times and the Champions League, and the manager has confounded the fans protesting against the Glazers by repeatedly singing their praises. David Gill, United's chief executive, part of the board which opposed the Glazers' hostile bid in 2005, has afterwards said the takeover was restructured and pronounced himself happy with the debt burden.

The Glazer family's original plan was to register the famous Man United in the low‑tax US state of Nevada and one day make money for themselves by selling it or floating it on some stock market. They always knew they needed United to remain successful to achieve financial gain, and did always budget, along with the oceans of interest they would drain from the club, to provide Ferguson with £25m or so a season to replenish his squad.

They have been true to that strategy, and last summer Ferguson spent more than for a long time: £18.9m on David de Gea, £16.5m on Phil Jones, who played uneasily at right-back in the derby, and £17m for Ashley Young, brought on as a late substitute. It is difficult to pin a diminution of the manager's transfer horizons on the Glazers' arrival; he has always been prepared to break transfer records on the best British talent, from Gary Pallister to Rio Ferdinand, then sought to sprinkle in class from overseas.

Some of his marquee purchases have not vindicated their cost, notably Juan Sebastián Verón and latterly Dimitar Berbatov, but Ruud van Nistelrooy did, and Cristiano Ronaldo, at £12m, proved unbeatable business. After Ronaldo left in July 2009 for £80m, the signings have seemed to become less ambitious. There was an acceptance that Ronaldo could not be replaced and United, for some reason, were not in a financial league to compete with the galácticos of Real Madrid or the pass masters of Barcelona who outclassed United in two Champions League finals.

To assess the impact which the Glazer takeover has had on the club, besides rising prices and the automatic scheme which forces season ticket holders to buy a seat at every cup match, it is always instructive to imagine United had the Americans never turned up in the first place. Flush with the largest turnover in the Premier League, with profits of £50m or £60m, paying relatively modest dividends as a plc compared to the Glazer leverage, it is difficult to imagine Ferguson being satisfied with the side he has. It is hard to think of him not aiming to build on Premier League dominance, and, while admirably continuing to promote young players, straining against Barcelona to become the best in Europe.

This season United were knocked out of the Champions League in the group stage, Athletic Bilbao wiped them out of the Europa League and now the Glazers' club need City to drop points in the Premier League.

When the "mind games" began a month ago, United's manager scoffed at Patrick Vieira, the City ambassador who had described as "desperate" Paul Scholes pulling the boots on again. Ferguson retorted that Mancini's re-acceptance of Carlos Tevez was more desperate. Yet there was a huge difference. Tevez, 28 and at the top of his game, has been reintroduced after a drawn out clash with Mancini. Scholes is 37 and came out of actual retirement for the central role of anchoring United's midfield. There he was overcome by the colossus of Yaya Touré, 28, a Champions League winner with Barcelona, signed by City with £24m of Sheikh Mansour's money, from a menu of choices requested by Mancini in 2010.

The Abu Dhabi "project," while sending City fans ecstatic on Monday, is, of course, widely disdained in football as the buying of success, contrary to the gradual building of a team from a club's own resources which Ferguson, for all United's money, has previously achieved prodigiously. Before Mancini can consider leaving the legacy he says he seeks, and a long-term passing of Manchester football power is contemplated, City must face Uefa's financial fair play from 2014, its aim to restrain such massive overspending even with an owner's subsidy.

That is for then. For now, United fans forking out for tickets may again begin to question forcefully the claim that £500m taken out of their club has made no difference, an argument which for seven long years has been an insult to their intelligence.


***************************************


Contrasting fortunes

£525m Borrowed by the Glazers to fund their 2005 takeover of Manchester United in 2005

£497.5m Interest, fees and bank charges paid out by United to service the Glazers' takeover since then, to 31 December 2011

£440m Gross debt still owed by Manchester United, who were debt free before the Glazers took over

£800m Invested by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan into Manchester City from 2008 to 31 May 2011

£1bn Committed to Manchester City by Mansour, including investment since and planned new training 'campus'
 
2012-05-02 11:42:11 AM
okay superfans, don't make me break out my fantastic MS paint art again

i132.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-02 02:14:10 PM

TheKnownUniverse: okay superfans, don't make me break out my fantastic MS paint art again

[i132.photobucket.com image 639x426]


Knowing where your mind is at, I suspect half of the collection is NSFW
 
2012-05-02 02:19:37 PM
While we wait for Unfreakable to give this thread a bump, today's lineups:

Chelsea: Cech, Bosingwa, Ivanovic, Terry, Bertrand, Ramires, Mikel, Meireles, Sturridge, Torres, Malouda. Subs: Turnbull, Cole, Essien, Lampard, Mata, Drogba, Kalou.

Newcastle: Krul, Perch, Williamson, Coloccini, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote, Gutierrez, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba. Subs: Elliot, Gosling, Ryan Taylor, Marveaux, Shola Ameobi, Obertan, Ferguson.

Bolton: Bogdan, Boyata, Wheater, Ream, Ricketts, Eagles, Reo-Coker, Mark Davies, Petrov, Ngog, Kevin Davies. Subs: Jaaskelainen, Alonso, Knight, Klasnic, Sordell, Miyaichi, Vela.

Tottenham: Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Kaboul, Rose, Lennon, Sandro, Modric, Bale, Van der Vaart, Adebayor. Subs: Cudicini, Saha, Giovani, Defoe, King, Livermore, Nelsen.

And Fabrice Muamba will be in attendance tonight!
 
2012-05-02 02:19:44 PM

TheKnownUniverse: okay superfans, don't make me break out my fantastic MS paint art again

[i132.photobucket.com image 639x426]


All white players. Racist.
 
2012-05-02 02:31:22 PM
Brad Friedel becomes Spurs' oldest player today, breaking an 89 year old record!
 
2012-05-02 02:32:13 PM
Bumped, but not all the way to the top of Sports--I didn't want to displace the Junior Seau newsflash
 
2012-05-02 02:33:23 PM

Unfreakable: Bumped, but not all the way to the top of Sports--I didn't want to displace the Junior Seau newsflash


Thanks.

/though I don't trust anything TMZ says
 
2012-05-02 02:41:08 PM
I'll be staying out of this thread when the games start, to avoid spoilers (taping at home), but...

desertgeek:
And Fabrice Muamba will be in attendance tonight!


Given all that he's been through, I'm looking forward to seeing him the most today.

/COYS
 
2012-05-02 02:45:37 PM

desertgeek: TheKnownUniverse: okay superfans, don't make me break out my fantastic MS paint art again

[i132.photobucket.com image 639x426]

Knowing where your mind is at, I suspect half of the collection is NSFW


Can MS paint art be NSFW?
 
2012-05-02 02:45:47 PM
We HAVE to win. Fourth is still a possibility.
 
2012-05-02 02:46:35 PM
Muamba to the media just now: "I'm getting stronger every day, I am happy to be back, I was overwhelmed with the support I got and it helps me every single day. I've still got six or seven boxes of cards to go throuigh that I haven't opened yet."

(Pulled from the BBC commentary)
 
2012-05-02 02:48:46 PM
Ah, that point in the season when your own team's destiny is out of their hands so you start wondering what Newcastle are up to.

HWTL.

FML.

/Six points from the next two games isn't too much to ask, is it?
 
2012-05-02 02:51:09 PM
No Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard, or Didier Drogba... it's almost as if Chelsea have something going on this weekend or something...
 
2012-05-02 03:02:08 PM
I gotta say, it really is easier to root for Newcastle without Joey coontface Barton out there.
 
2012-05-02 03:05:19 PM
CISSE with a phenomenal strike
 
2012-05-02 03:05:38 PM
Papiss!
 
2012-05-02 03:05:55 PM
PAPISS! He scores when he wants!
 
2012-05-02 03:12:57 PM
Will St. Totteringham see his shadow today?!?
 
2012-05-02 03:15:28 PM

Mr_H: desertgeek:
And Fabrice Muamba will be in attendance tonight!

Given all that he's been through, I'm looking forward to seeing him the most today.


Sounds like he got a very warm reception, so good on everyone involved considering how much this game could mean to both teams.

StRalphTheLiar: Can MS paint art be NSFW?


I know I, for one, don't want to find out....
 
2012-05-02 03:17:51 PM

Billy Crystal Meth Lab: Will St. Totteringham see his shadow today?!?


Impossible. Both clubs have 2 games left and Spurs are only 4 points back if they lose.
 
2012-05-02 03:19:49 PM
Muamba on the pitch before the match (I'm sure this video will be removed soon)

amazing stuff
 
2012-05-02 03:20:23 PM

689908: Ah, that point in the season when your own team's destiny is out of their hands so you start wondering what Newcastle are up to.

HWTL.

FML.

/Six points from the next two games isn't too much to ask, is it?


Ugh, seriously. Can't believe I'm going to be in the pub supporting the Toon army Sunday morning...but this is what it has all come down to. United had many chances to put the season away, and flopped it. That's reality.
 
2012-05-02 03:28:34 PM

TheKnownUniverse: Muamba on the pitch before the match (I'm sure this video will be removed soon)

amazing stuff


Thanks for that. Now get on getting a replay of the Newcastle goal please!
 
2012-05-02 03:29:01 PM

Stimied in a Rut: Billy Crystal Meth Lab: Will St. Totteringham see his shadow today?!?

Impossible. Both clubs have 2 games left and Spurs are only 4 points back if they lose.


I meant that statement as more along the lines of "Will the lead be close to insurmountable?" rather than today being that oh-so-special holiday.
 
2012-05-02 03:30:52 PM

TheKnownUniverse: Muamba on the pitch before the match (I'm sure this video will be removed soon)

amazing stuff


Holy crap, watching him on the pitch made me well up.
 
2012-05-02 03:32:34 PM
Ba-on-bar violence
 
2012-05-02 03:33:54 PM

Stimied in a Rut: Thanks for that. Now get on getting a replay of the Newcastle goal please!


yessir
 
2012-05-02 03:35:53 PM

TheKnownUniverse: Stimied in a Rut: Thanks for that. Now get on getting a replay of the Newcastle goal please!

yessir


Wow awesome, thanks!
 
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