MisterRonbo: Duh. Obviously not. Read my post. Somebody said voting was the poster child for reintegration in to the community. I said these other things ranked higher. Did you enjoy making that strawman?

Bonus points: Do you think there is nothing the state can do to make it easier or more likely for felons to be able to get a job? Avoid discrimination in housing? Do you think there is no public interest in doing these things, and thus making them less likely to commit another crime and return to prison?

The context in the entire thread, and in otherginger's post specifically, is the government's disenfranchisement of felons. Your rebuttal is that jobs and homes are more important than voting rights. It's not a strawman tactic to turn the conversation back towards the abilities of the state in the reintegration process. Perhaps re-enfranchisement is more symbolic than practical, but then, wouldn't that make it a perfect metaphoric "poster child?"

In a normal world (as opposed to the upside black-is-white world of our modern United States), the population of former felons would be a very small percentage of the general population. My response would be, "Who cares? What difference does it make?"

But here in the US, the land of opportunity, the land of freedom and justice and law and order and STAND YOUR GROUND, we put enormous numbers of people into prison as felons for non-violent drug offenses. These non-violent drug offenders are clearly a STAND YOUR GROUND enormous threat to our STAND democratic way of YOUR life so we have to GROUND keep them from voting and whenever possible gun them down as the subhuman trash we all know them to be.

So you thought you could vote? BLAM! BLAM BLAM! He threatened my marriage!

True story.

My ex has an evangelical wing of her family. One Thanksgiving, we had a serious after dinner conversation about whether or not women should be allowed to vote. Papa Evangelical's argument?

"If women weren't allowed to vote, Bill Clinton would never have been elected." Mama Evangelical and Sister Evangelical both agreed with his reasoning and conclusion.

/csb

winterwhile: responsability is not a word in the dem-o-rat vocab

This.

First blacks, then women and now you want to give criminals the right to vote? The line must be drawn somewhere.

downstairs: Time served is time served. The end

This is stupid.

Why can't you have Time served + no voting?
Time served + a fine?
Time served + probationary period?
Time served + sex registry?
Time served + handgun restrictions?
Time served + we keep a record of you to punish you more next time and/or warn police running your name that you like to get stabby?


I don't have the tears to shed for guilty felons who lose the vote. It doesn't bother me that that is a part of doing such crimes. It wouldn't bother me if it isn't part of the penalty for a felon. But its not very consistent within the system to say that they shouldn't lose the right vote because time served makes them clean as a whistle.

Smackledorfer: downstairs: Time served is time served. The end

This is stupid.

Why can't you have Time served + no voting?
Time served + a fine?
Time served + probationary period?
Time served + sex registry?
Time served + handgun restrictions?
Time served + we keep a record of you to punish you more next time and/or warn police running your name that you like to get stabby?


I don't have the tears to shed for guilty felons who lose the vote. It doesn't bother me that that is a part of doing such crimes. It wouldn't bother me if it isn't part of the penalty for a felon. But its not very consistent within the system to say that they shouldn't lose the right vote because time served makes them clean as a whistle.

Then we should drop the charade that serving time means you've repaid a debt. Declare them second class citizens or slaves who can never compensate us for the damages they've caused.
...and if that damage was getting caught with weed in your pocket twenty years ago then FARK you and your attempts at becoming a productive citizen.

only the pure people have the right to decide who should lead us.

Corvus: Tumunga: There needs to be some type of continuing punishment for choosing to not be a part of a law abiding society.

Why? This is begging the question. The solution you provide is what you state to be fact.

Why don't prisoners server their time (or however they pay for their crime) and then we say "You are now like every other citizen unless you do something wrong".

It seems something unamericana to say your are a 2nd class citizen to other people in the US.

Because they already did something wrong. Commit a felony, you can't vote anymore. Since we, the law-abiders, chose not to commit felonies, why should we be treated the same as the criminals? What's the point of not committing a felony, if we don't have to worry about the consequence of not voting?

i wonder how many of these felons ever voted in the first place.

additionally, the article was kind of shiatty in that it didn't really detail the manner in which felons lose the right to vote. the laws are different in every state, and felons are only disenfranchised completely in a few states. whether or not this should be the case is of course a topic which can arouse much discussion.

Weigard: Tumunga: There needs to be some type of continuing punishment for choosing to not be a part of a law abiding society. Not being allowed to vote is the price they pay. If they want to vote, then don't get convicted of a felony. Just my 2-cents.

Why don't we just flense their skin while we're at it.

Sounds fair to me. Where's the flenser?

Corvus: Tumunga: Corvus: Tumunga: There needs to be some type of continuing punishment for choosing to not be a part of a law abiding society.

Can we do that for everyone who ever lies on their taxes then?

After the tax cheats are convicted, yes sir. Don't let them vote.

I thought the punishment for criminals was there jail time. Are you pretending they don't get jail time?

Yes, sometimes punishment for criminals is jail time. Sometimes, it's just a fine. Sometimes, it's jail time. Some crimes are misdemeanors, some are felonies. Convicted of a misdemeanor, you still get to vote. Convicted of a felony, no more voting for you.

So you going to just ignore my question? Then if you are afraid they are not "a part of law abiding society" then shouldn't we not allow any tax cheats to ever vote again? Those people would seem to have a bigger disregard for society and government than most committing crimes.

I did anwer your question (see above and below):

After the tax cheats are convicted, yes sir. Don't let them vote.

QU!RK1019: I are a life long Republican and I think felons should be allowed to vote and I'll never vote for another Republican again if felons aren't allowed to vote.

seriously? that's your line? "i've always voted republican but suddenly this one issue, felon-voting rights, has driven me to the other side, despite the fact that i generally approve more of the republican message". i'm going to have to assume that you're all of fourteen years old here...

FOR fark'S SAKE

It's "Lo and behold". Will also accept, "Lo, and behold" or "Lo! and behold"

Low and bee holes

winterwhile: Ron Von Kleinenstein: First blacks, then women and now you want to give criminals the right to vote? The line must be drawn somewhere.

you do know that the dem-o-rat party was the one blocking Blacks from voting?

Did you know it was a Rep-pug-nig-coont who crushed the noble South, and violated their states rights?
Do you know who ELSE wanted to black blocks from voting?
Do you know the way to San Jose?
ANSWER THE QUESTION, MOTHERF**KER!

Somacandra: downstairs: But once you're out- you're free. The end.

[i152.photobucket.com image 383x267]

No. It means you get your yellow ticket of leave, #24601.

I can't believe I'm the only one to know this, but wasn't the right to have a say about how your tax dollars are spent an essential principle underling the american revolution? I ask, because I haven't seen any debate over whether or not felons should pay taxes, yet people are happy to not give them the vote. I can only assume the expectation is that, since they can't vote, there's no reason they should pay income taxes. The whole "No taxation without representation" thing. I always thought it was important. Also, how long do you think it would take someone like The Donald to get convicted of a "no PMTA prison time" felony in that case?

Not allowing felons to vote is too easy a target for idiots. Consider: "Public protest against essential national assets (for example financial institutions) is now a minor felony. You don't have to go to prison, but no vote for you!" It passes a conservative court if you allow the protests to happen in "Free Speech Zones".


Cheers.

proteus_b: QU!RK1019: I are a life long Republican and I think felons should be allowed to vote and I'll never vote for another Republican again if felons aren't allowed to vote.

seriously? that's your line? "i've always voted republican but suddenly this one issue, felon-voting rights, has driven me to the other side, despite the fact that i generally approve more of the republican message". i'm going to have to assume that you're all of fourteen years old here...

Check out Noam Chimpsky's post four spots above that. Listen, you gotta understand that most everything you read on here - especially the retarded stuff - is facetious.

Teenagers should be allowed to vote. Also we need pass a constitutional amendment to get them off my lawn.

I used to her 'felon' and think of a rapist or murder.

But I hear about felonies that involve mis-statements on federal forms, and some stupid acts involving people acting out of bounds but not unreasonably stupid, then hear the words 'felony charge'.

In this law and order nation of ours, felonies are not just reserved for gangsters and thugs, but for people crossing lines they didn't realize they should cross.

Just like 'sex offender', 'convicted felon' is losing it's meaning.

violentsalvation: How hard is it to have those rights restored, or does it vary depending on your felony? I know a couple people who had their rights restored, one because he wanted to vote, the other because he wanted to own a gun and hunt again. But I really don't understand the process, who decides it, and how?

Pops is a felon. What he did is irrelevant- he only served some time in work release. (Not a DUI) However, a felon is a felon is a felon. Out of the blue the ACLU contacted him and asked if he wanted his rights restored. He hates the ACLU. At first he thought it was bullshiat, so he told them to go ahead and do their thing. A few months later, with no work of his own, long after his probation was over, he had his rights restored. I don't know how and I don't know why, I just know the end result.

CSB.

Gyrfalcon: mrshowrules: Mugato: There's no legitimate reason in the world why felons who did their time shouldn't be allowed to vote.

This. Why societal benefit do you have in disenfranchising these people further?

I don't know, maybe they could teach the younger ones that you have alot to lose by being a criminal. You know, break the circle.

if you pander, what is the driver for change

way south: Smackledorfer: downstairs: Time served is time served. The end

This is stupid.

Why can't you have Time served + no voting?
Time served + a fine?
Time served + probationary period?
Time served + sex registry?
Time served + handgun restrictions?
Time served + we keep a record of you to punish you more next time and/or warn police running your name that you like to get stabby?


I don't have the tears to shed for guilty felons who lose the vote. It doesn't bother me that that is a part of doing such crimes. It wouldn't bother me if it isn't part of the penalty for a felon. But its not very consistent within the system to say that they shouldn't lose the right vote because time served makes them clean as a whistle.

Then we should drop the charade that serving time means you've repaid a debt. Declare them second class citizens or slaves who can never compensate us for the damages they've caused.
...and if that damage was getting caught with weed in your pocket twenty years ago then FARK you and your attempts at becoming a productive citizen.

only the pure people have the right to decide who should lead us.

I've never been told that "serving time alone means your debt is fully repaid". Never in my lifetime. Which is good, because its never been true in my lifetime.

Also, you like your hyperbole dontcha?

Misch: Karac: How/why does being on probation cost money?

Fees.

This is nauseating. Between this sort of thing and for-profit prisons, how can anyone deny that we are practicing a form of slavery?

Your Average Witty Fark User: violentsalvation: How hard is it to have those rights restored, or does it vary depending on your felony? I know a couple people who had their rights restored, one because he wanted to vote, the other because he wanted to own a gun and hunt again. But I really don't understand the process, who decides it, and how?

Pops is a felon. What he did is irrelevant- he only served some time in work release. (Not a DUI) However, a felon is a felon is a felon. Out of the blue the ACLU contacted him and asked if he wanted his rights restored. He hates the ACLU. At first he thought it was bullshiat, so he told them to go ahead and do their thing. A few months later, with no work of his own, long after his probation was over, he had his rights restored. I don't know how and I don't know why, I just know the end result.

CSB.

ACLU filed to the white house for a pardon. Since Obama has only handed out a handfull (including the thanksgiving turkeys) chances are he was one of the 200 or so handed out by Bush. Pardons can be handed out with time tables (if no felonies in the next 12,18,24....months), Presidential pardons are usually for fellons who have served their time and kept their nose clean.

Huggermugger: Misch: Karac: How/why does being on probation cost money?

Fees.

This is nauseating. Between this sort of thing and for-profit prisons, how can anyone deny that we are practicing a form of slavery?

I'm with you on for-profit prisons and prison labor, but probation is a good thing. It saves the state money, and and prisoners like it as an alternative to a longer prison stay.

Mazzic518: pxsteel: Your Average Witty Fark User: violentsalvation: How hard is it to have those rights restored, or does it vary depending on your felony? I know a couple people who had their rights restored, one because he wanted to vote, the other because he wanted to own a gun and hunt again. But I really don't understand the process, who decides it, and how?

Pops is a felon. What he did is irrelevant- he only served some time in work release. (Not a DUI) However, a felon is a felon is a felon. Out of the blue the ACLU contacted him and asked if he wanted his rights restored. He hates the ACLU. At first he thought it was bullshiat, so he told them to go ahead and do their thing. A few months later, with no work of his own, long after his probation was over, he had his rights restored. I don't know how and I don't know why, I just know the end result.

CSB.

ACLU filed to the white house for a pardon. Since Obama has only handed out a handfull (including the thanksgiving turkeys) chances are he was one of the 200 or so handed out by Bush. Pardons can be handed out with time tables (if no felonies in the next 12,18,24....months), Presidential pardons are usually for fellons who have served their time and kept their nose clean.

I highly doubt it was a presidential pardon,

Governor and Presidential are the only two kinds.
Governors typically only parden state offences. If is was a federal offence it was presidential. Governors can commute federal crimes 'felonies' as in death row inmates, but it is fairly rare and usually makes national news

Gyrfalcon: pxsteel: Gyrfalcon: mrshowrules: Mugato: There's no legitimate reason in the world why felons who did their time shouldn't be allowed to vote.

This. Why societal benefit do you have in disenfranchising these people further?

I don't know, maybe they could teach the younger ones that you have alot to lose by being a criminal. You know, break the circle.

if you pander, what is the driver for change

Because if there's one thing young criminals are thinking about it's losing their...voting rights?!?

That may be the dumbest rationale ever for disenfranchising felons. There may be other reasons, but "teaching kids a lesson" isn't going to be one of them.

We all learn this in civics class, elem maybe middle school. If the criminal does not care, why should I. If you are too farking dumb or too filled with bravado (i.e. punk a$$) don't come crying after the fact. You knew the rules going in.

It's very easy

Don't be a criminal

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Mugato: There's no legitimate reason in the world why felons who did their time shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Some of them might not be White.

In all seriousness this looks a lot like an extension of voter suppression we see around the country - aided by sentencing bias and selective enforcent of laws and police effort. And the groups most affected are not middle class white folk.

If you're a convicted felon, chances are you're a dumbass who dorsnt deserve to vote.

Your state, not some Democrat from Maryland, gets to determine if you deserve to have your voting rights restored.

/ No surprise this is coming from the left. They know how most criminals will vote, because there is no more self-entitled group of voters.

Headso: If your party needs as few people to vote as possible to move your agenda your ideology might suck a cock.

If you party relies on convicted criminals to get a few more votes for your bankrupt ideas then your ideology might swallow.

Mazzic518: pxsteel: Your Average Witty Fark User: violentsalvation: How hard is it to have those rights restored, or does it vary depending on your felony? I know a couple people who had their rights restored, one because he wanted to vote, the other because he wanted to own a gun and hunt again. But I really don't understand the process, who decides it, and how?

Pops is a felon. What he did is irrelevant- he only served some time in work release. (Not a DUI) However, a felon is a felon is a felon. Out of the blue the ACLU contacted him and asked if he wanted his rights restored. He hates the ACLU. At first he thought it was bullshiat, so he told them to go ahead and do their thing. A few months later, with no work of his own, long after his probation was over, he had his rights restored. I don't know how and I don't know why, I just know the end result.

CSB.

ACLU filed to the white house for a pardon. Since Obama has only handed out a handfull (including the thanksgiving turkeys) chances are he was one of the 200 or so handed out by Bush. Pardons can be handed out with time tables (if no felonies in the next 12,18,24....months), Presidential pardons are usually for fellons who have served their time and kept their nose clean.

I highly doubt it was a presidential pardon,

This was NOT a Presidential pardon. He has no idea why they contacted him, but hey, whatever.