Giltric: By way of deception thou shalt do war.

How is this relevant, exactly?

/Because that was never the Mossad's motto

CrispFlows: Any relation to Sacha Cohen?

.... Cohen is a really common name.

Magorn: Egypt? They've had a peace treaty for 40+ years with Israel, are economically interdependant, and just a little pre-occupied with their own social upheaval just right now

Actually the peace treaty seems to be on its way to disappear, and with last week's gas kerfuffle, economically interdependent is certainly not the case anymore.

Things are looking grim now that the MB will be taking power.

Magorn: Syria? Again. The army is more than a mite busy with domestic problems right just now.

The bigger problem is if Bashar falls. At this point, the Israeli army will absolutely be obligated to invade Syria in order to get its hand on the chemical and biological stockpiles before Hamas or Hizbullah do it first.

There is no way the IDF would ever allow that.

MeinRS6: If an Israeli strike would be effective, then they probably would have done it already.

You're wrong there. There is still time, but not much.

SchlingFocker: So a Jew who used to be in charge of helping provide for the defense of every Jew in Israel would be willing to actively try and undermine the security of Israel because he didn't get a job he wanted??

You seriously think that someone who was loyal to Bush and hates Obama wouldn't pull something like that in the name of political capital and getting elected?

PS both Dagan and Diskin declared that now is not the time to attack Iran because the sanctions should be given a chance to work so more, but that if they don't work, THEN Iran should be attacked, and America needs to be brought in the picture.

They are saying that because both are pissed at Netanyahu and at Barak, and I wouldn't be surprised if soon former chief of staff of the IDF Ashkenazi joined the chorus. He really really hates Barak.

Incidentally, all three were basically fired under bad circumstances, and at least two of them will most likely be joining either Kadima or Labor for the next election.


Again, politics, which is why most people in Israel are ignoring this.

Tatsuma: The bigger problem is if Bashar falls. At this point, the Israeli army will absolutely be obligated to invade Syria in order to get its hand on the chemical and biological stockpiles before Hamas or Hizbullah do it first.


Holy shiat, I didn't think about that.

BigNumber12: Holy shiat, I didn't think about that.

Yeah, that is really worrying and could prove to be an even worse threat than Iran in the short term, depending on how long Assad stays in power.

But yeah there is no way I can see the IDF not entering Syria the second Assad's done. Even maybe sooner than that, to prevent him to try and fire as many of them as he can to be remembered as a hero by at least some people.

It's a really shiatty situation.

Iran's a big country, where dreams stay with you like a lover's voice fires the mountainside.

I'm glad you came, Tats. Now I understand that Israel's only option is to defensively attack all its neighbors.

MeinRS6: One would have to believe that the Iranian program could be seriously set back years(otherwise why risk an attack?) by the destruction that conventional arms can accomplish on a small number of targets. I'm not convinced that's the case.

Well, Israel is apparently convinced its the case, but also convinced that the window is closing

Look, I don't have access to that kind of classified material, but I don't believe Israel would attempt something if there was no chance of it actually working.

Truth is, the best scenario for Israel is of course if America decides to get involved, either from the start or thereafter when Iranians inevitably decides to drag America in, because the American Air Force is obviously superior in terms of equipment and manpower, and could do much more damage.

If the USAF gets involved, the whole program could be eradicated. And 60% of Americans are fine with that. And F22s are parked 200 miles from Iran right now.

And Obama wants to be re-elected and sway independents on his side.

CrispFlows: That's the joke. Hence, the facepalm.

Well, that could be a question if people are not familiar with Jewish last names, and let's be frank here, most people aren't.

Tatsuma:

It's a really shiatty situation.

yeah...good luck with that. let us know how it turns out, ok? because the US is gonna sit this one out.

Tatsuma: CrispFlows: That's the joke. Hence, the facepalm.

Well, that could be a question if people are not familiar with Jewish last names, and let's be frank here, most people aren't.

I see what you did there.

MeinRS6: Which is basically another way of saying what I posted earlier, hence the reason for no attack so far.

Touche

MeinRS6: I doubt the same percentage of Americans would be fine with the blowback that would occur as a result of a bombing campaign over Iran. There's no winning in this for the US. It's just another mess that cannot be cleaned up by use of explosives - unless you use the ones measured in megatons.

Well 60% say they want the US to use force to stop Iran if necessary, so I am guessing that its part of their thinking.

cameroncrazy1984: TheShavingofOccam123: Concerning Israelis support of an attack on Iran:

When asked whether they supported Israel taking action if the US declined, support was much lower. Only 45% said they would back an Israeli strike, 40% opposed this, and 15% had no opinion.

Gee, they don't want to go to war without Daddy?

Shocking.

thats good, because support for yet another war in the middle east isn't exactly what people in this country want right now.

Weaver95: thats good, because support for yet another war in the middle east isn't exactly what people in this country want right now.

60% of Americans believe it will be necessary for the US to stop Iran and back this decision

Only 30% disagree.

Tatsuma: Weaver95: thats good, because support for yet another war in the middle east isn't exactly what people in this country want right now.

60% of Americans believe it will be necessary for the US to stop Iran and back this decision

Only 30% disagree.

Fox news polls being quoted by an Israeli news site? um...no offense, but Fox news polls aren't exactly reliable.

Tatsuma: Weaver95: thats good, because support for yet another war in the middle east isn't exactly what people in this country want right now.

60% of Americans believe it will be necessary for the US to stop Iran and back this decision

Only 30% disagree.

also, that article didn't link to the fox news poll either, so...WTF dude?

So, just checking the news, I can see that

Olmert (left in disgrace, kicked out of office and under investigation for fraud)
Gabi Ashkenazi (left in disgrace, was kicked out of office by Barak)
Meir Dagan (left in disgrace, was kicked out of office by Netanyahu instead of extending his mandate as he wanted)
and
Yuval Diskin (was passed over for promotion, forced to leave his position in the Shin Bet and replaced by his former deputy, hates both Netanyahu and Barak)

all came out within 2 days, right after the announcement that most likely that there would be election in August, all in a concerted effort to attack Netanyahu and Barak.

Both Dagan and Diskin are likely to be trying to get elected, there is a good chance that Ashkenazi will too.

As I said earlier, purely political drivel.

Weaver95: also, that article didn't link to the fox news poll either, so...WTF dude?

Just the first link I googled, there are much better polls around, and those numbers have been constant for like 6 months now

neversubmit: I looked it up because I thought "intel orgs have mottos?" It just seemed weird.

Wow, I have rarely seen someone literally cutting the relevant part of a sentence and just outright lying about it like that.

here is the full quote

Mossad's former motto, be-tachbūlōt ta`aseh lekhā milchāmāh (Hebrew: בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה) is a quote from the Bible (Proverbs 24:6): "For by wise guidance you can wage your war" (NRSV). Ostrovsky claims this translates, "By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War."

and anyone who can read Hebrew (like, you know, I do, knows that Ostrovsky is just full of it, much like his book.

But don't trust lying Jews on the Mossad's payroll, just read how it was translated by non-Jews

http://www.biblestudytools.com/proverbs/24-6-compare.html


Oh and its not even the motto of the Mossad anymore

And apparently the CIA quotes John.

Here, Weaver. Took me an extra 15 seconds.

On Foreign Policy, sourced by Pew.

Tatsuma: Here, Weaver. Took me an extra 15 seconds.

On Foreign Policy, sourced by Pew.

and yet...I cannot seem to find anything from the more neutral polling sites that support your view that the US voters want a war with Iran. granted, for some strange reason voters seem to want to support Israel...but that could change easily enough if Israel kicks off WWIII.

Weaver95: and yet...I cannot seem to find anything from the more neutral polling sites that support your view that the US voters want a war with Iran. granted, for some strange reason voters seem to want to support Israel...but that could change easily enough if Israel kicks off WWIII.

How can you say that Pew is biased? Or that FP is right-wing?

Tatsuma: Weaver95: and yet...I cannot seem to find anything from the more neutral polling sites that support your view that the US voters want a war with Iran. granted, for some strange reason voters seem to want to support Israel...but that could change easily enough if Israel kicks off WWIII.

How can you say that Pew is biased? Or that FP is right-wing?

i'm saying that I'm poking around various polling sites and I can't find anything that supports your allegation OTHER than this mytical fox news poll mentioned in by your original link.

I can find polls that say voters support israel. I can find polls that say voters believe Iran is a threat. I can find no polls that say US voters support air strikes by the US or Israel. I can find no polls in support of another war.

So it looks like the security apparatus (at least the recently-retired faces of it) doesn't want the first strike to come from Jerusalem.

Israelis don't want the first strike to come from Jerusalem.

And yet, it looks like the leadership wants the first strike to come from Jerusalem.

// I feel like I've seen this movie before
// never mind how the leadership (Israel, America, Iran - pick one) wants to look strong before elections