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(MSNBC)   "Oh, hi doc. Whatcha doin?" "Surgery on your collapsed lung. Go back to sleep"   (vitals.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 145
    More: Scary, Whatcha Doin', heart surgery, Linda Carroll, anesthesiologists, quality of lives, Hawaii, National Board of Health, lungs  
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14930 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 12:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 04:28:52 PM  
www.citizensincharge.org

I AM NOT QUAID! I AM HAUSER!!!

/also, that lung thing you're doing hurts like hell
 
2012-04-30 04:35:25 PM  
www.abc.net.au

Every single person who I have spoken to personally and have claimed to have woken up during surgery also admitted they smoke marajuana, or were heavy users in the past.

Doctors know it affects your tolerance to anastheasia. Lie about your personal use and history at yourt own risk. Even telling the truth may not save you. Doctors still cannot accurately sedate a person when their body has been exposed to cannabis in the past.
 
2012-04-30 04:43:24 PM  

punistation: [www.abc.net.au image 218x219]

Every single person who I have spoken to personally and have claimed to have woken up during surgery also admitted they smoke marajuana, or were heavy users in the past.

Doctors know it affects your tolerance to anastheasia. Lie about your personal use and history at yourt own risk. Even telling the truth may not save you. Doctors still cannot accurately sedate a person when their body has been exposed to cannabis in the past.


I'm going to have to ask the anesthesiologists floating around the thread to comment on this, plz.
 
2012-04-30 05:02:07 PM  
I'm going in to get an ACL reconstruction next week Monday. Why the hell did I think that this was going to be good reading?
 
2012-04-30 05:02:14 PM  

Alonjar: I had this happen during a particularly complicated dental surgery. They were aware that I was awake, but I had come out of the sedation and they didnt feel comfortable dosing me higher for whatever reason, so I just kind of layed there in a half zombie state, felt every bit of them cutting up the teeth/bone, and taking it out in chunks, etc.

With that said, it really wasnt that big of a deal. shiat had to get done one way or another, I mean they're fixing you man... no need to get angry at people trying to help you.


Yeah, its more depression that I have to get it done and get knocked out of full service for a few days than anger. I always think "lets get this over with, doc"

/gonna have to still get my wisdom teeth removed, but they're not in operable position yet
//my teeth grow slow as shiat
 
2012-04-30 05:05:18 PM  
CSB time?

I woke up on the table when they were fixing my broken femur. I felt no pain thanks to spinal anesthesia, but I felt my body shaken as the doctor was struggling to insert the nail. I told the nurse I couldn't breathe. She held the mask to my face, but it didn't help. I told her again, then she said "that damn valve," then I herd the air buzzing in the mask and I was sleeping in the next second.
 
2012-04-30 05:05:50 PM  
I'm having major surgery next week. I'm a moron for reading this.
 
2012-04-30 05:10:38 PM  
I woke up in the middle of a nose surgery (sleep apnea victim) just as the surgeon was about to crack my septum with a hammer and chisel. Needless to say both he and the rest of the team just about filled their scrubs with dookie. He apologized profusely after the procedure. I'm guessing he was scared shiatless that I was going to sue. Hmmmm.... maybe I should have.
 
2012-04-30 05:12:47 PM  
I woke up during a colonoscopy and remember seeing the endoscope's monitor in a fairly dark room. I asked, "Is that my colon?", and the doctor said that it'd be done soon. I just laid there watching the screen showing the inside of my colon. It was weird-looking. I guess that they gave me some kind of painkiller, because it didn't hurt, and just felt weird rather than hurt.

/the day before a colonoscopy is much worse than the day of, if you know what I mean >.<
 
2012-04-30 05:26:00 PM  

Felgraf: Marshall Willenholly: Since he's 22 and the article didn't mention trauma from an accident, I'm guess he had spontaneous pneumothorax, which is where the lung randomly springs a leak in tall, thin guys in their early 20's. I had it happen to me at 21, and I know of 4 other guys who look like me who had it happen around that age. I did not wake up during the surgery like this guy but I did have a chest-tube hooked to a vacuum (pleurevac) for 2 weeks before the damn lung finally stopped leaking.

... huh. I did not know that.

... Given that I'm approximately 6'1" and weigh around 140lbs, that's prooobaabbllly something I should watch out for.


Pneumothorax sucks. I'm 6'6" and had my first collapsed lung two years ago. Felt like really hardcore heart burn. Couldn't lay down unless I wanted knife stabbing pain in my chest with extreme shortness of breath. I was wide awake during my surgery. The Germans used only local anasthetic for the hole in my chest and pushed that damn vacuum tube all up inside. The best part was the morphine though. I'm not looking forward to another episode of this because it means a more invasive surgery to attach my lung to the chest wall. Being tall and at risk for this shiat is da' bomb!
 
2012-04-30 05:34:25 PM  
Going through a 4 hour cardiac ablation without sedation (sedation would have negated the bad rhythm the EP was looking for) gives you a whole new outlook on what pain/discomfort is.
 
2012-04-30 05:51:46 PM  

zzzzdoc: The vast majority of recall incidents (and virtually all mentioned above) are in cases done with sedation, not general anesthesia. The patients are either misled by staff into thinking they would be totally unconscious. That is not a goal of sedation - certainly not of conscious sedation. So waking up periodically and remembering events/sounds is typical of that type of sedation.


That seems to be common. When I had all four wisdom teeth extracted by an oral surgeon under IV sedation, they explained that I would be awake and actually able to obey commands to a certain extent, but wouldn't feel any pain. So it was no big deal when that happened.

The procedure took close to four hours, and involved a lot of cursing and muttering on the surgeon's part. He was clearly earning his fee just going by the amount of manual labor the job required.
 
2012-04-30 06:11:53 PM  

katerbug72: You should feel a c-section.


If the "Kidlet" in your profile is the result, I highly recommend C-Sections. That is one cute baby!
 
2012-04-30 06:15:28 PM  
Satanus Maximus:
Pneumothorax sucks. I'm 6'6" and had my first collapsed lung two years ago. Felt like really hardcore heart burn. Couldn't lay down unless I wanted knife stabbing pain in my chest with extreme shortness of breath. I was wide awake during my surgery. The Germans used only local anasthetic for the hole in my chest and pushed that damn vacuum tube all up inside. The best part was the morphine though. I'm not looking forward to another episode of this because it means a more invasive surgery to attach my lung to the chest wall. Being tall and at risk for this shiat is da' bomb!


I think local anesthetic is normal for the initial chest tube -- at least, when Kaiser did mine that's all I got, and there was no particular urgency.

When they fixed me up with laparoscopic surgery, they dusted the inside of the lung cavity with talcum or something, which causes scarring and binds the lung to the cavity -- it's supposed to prevent recurrence. Also, the morphine sucked -- it did nothing to take away the pain and just made me nauseous. No idea how people can get addicted to that crap. Vicodin on the other hand...
 
2012-04-30 06:37:41 PM  
I had a pair of surgeries to remove a tumor from my chest. First major surgery for me outside of wisdom teeth, which went fine, so I had no idea about my tolerance. They decided to do them under MAC. Good god were they painful. They kept having to increase the pain medication, I swear I was shouting ouch half the time. I know better now, I warn all my doctors that I have an amazing tolerance for anesthesia and local pain meds. Even knowing this, the nurse had to go get more anesthesia during my colonoscopy/upper endoscopy as the amount they brought wasn't enough. I guess some painful surgeries are worth it to be cancer free.

Luckily my new dentist listens to me, he numbs the fark out of me before any drilling. Just local anesthetic, but I need a ton of it apparently.
 
2012-04-30 07:08:15 PM  

Myria: I woke up during a colonoscopy...


I just thad the upper GI. I woke up,without opening my eyes, and felt the farking thing down my throat and I wanted it OUT!
UnnnnnnnnnnHHHGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

I think I grabbed his hands and went to pull.

"BUDDY! BUDDY! NO ! WAIT! "

They hit my IV and was under again.

Funny how everybody there knew my name.

The doc never mentioned it. I guess it happens.
 
2012-04-30 07:08:59 PM  
Apparently there is a machine that can allow them to determine if you are awake or under, even if you can't move, but they don't use it in all surgeries because its expensive.

"I was screaming, screaming, but nothing was coming out"

The news report includes a scene from the movie Awake where the guy is mentally screaming but can't move or speak. The single tear dripping from his eye as he feels them cutting in freaked me out.
 
2012-04-30 07:11:09 PM  
 
2012-04-30 07:36:19 PM  

Aquapope: katerbug72: You should feel a c-section.

If the "Kidlet" in your profile is the result, I highly recommend C-Sections. That is one cute baby!


Awww thanks, I made him myself.
 
2012-04-30 08:51:40 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: The procedure took close to four hours, and involved a lot of cursing and muttering on the surgeon's part.

The cursing and muttering is just the value-added service provided by the surgeon.

Colonoscopies are done about 50/50 sedation with versed and demerol with just the GI doctor vs. an anesthesiologist with propofol. It differs tremendously, depending on which city and state you are in. You are unlikely to remember anything with the propofol. Entirely common to remember parts/all of the procedure with IV sedation from the GI doc (you're just relying on the versed causing antegrade amnesia, which is not 100% reliable by any means.)

As to the question about marijuana and general anesthesia, we're more concerned about opiod and amphetamine use, cocaine use (especially acutely), and some of the herbal medications. I see positive drugs screens every day. And people lie about what they use every day. Even after we point out the positive tests. Even when I mention the risks of lying about substance use.

 
2012-04-30 08:53:27 PM  

MeanJean: Demand that they use a BIS monitor to warn them about your brain activity. It can tell if you're mentally freaking out.


That's utter nonsense and company PR. I won't go into a discussion about it. That would take hours.
 
2012-04-30 09:04:44 PM  

MeanJean: Apparently there is a machine that can allow them to determine if you are awake or under, even if you can't move, but they don't use it in all surgeries because its expensive.

"I was screaming, screaming, but nothing was coming out"

The news report includes a scene from the movie Awake where the guy is mentally screaming but can't move or speak. The single tear dripping from his eye as he feels them cutting in freaked me out.


1.) It's not expensive. Plus it's ubiquitous. And we truly don't even think about its cost.
2.) It's not reliable. I've had it tell me that patients were unconscious - this while I'm having a conversation with them at the time.
3.) It's extremely controversial. There are studies that show it increases mortality, and studies that show it INCREASES recall. Yes, that's right. The monitor makes recall more common in several studies. That's because it can be dangerous to have patients too deeply anesthetised, so the common procedure it to lighten up the anesthesia if they read too deeply asleep. If that number is artifact, it leads you in exactly the wrong direction.

The company that markets the devise sponsors movies, has PR firms pushing for all those reports you see on 20/20, Dateline, etc...

Science works by studying devices to see if they are effective and safe in a scientific fashion. Not by hiring PR firms to scare the public into demanding a device that may or may not work.

All anesthesia providers want a device to tell us (He's awake or He's asleep). The problem is, that that device doesn't exist now. It's still one of those holy grails for us. Mortality in anesthesia has gone down 1000% or more in the last 2 decades. No other field of medicine can post that kind of safety record. It's something we're justifiably proud of.

Anyway. Jumping off my soapbox. If any of you need procedures in the future, I hope/trust all will go well. With any luck, you can avoid the OR entirely.
 
2012-04-30 09:14:37 PM  
The more I look at this, the more I'm grateful:

a) I've never had anything yet requiring true general anesthesia (closest I've ever come is the alfentanil/propofol cocktail at the gastroenterologists' when having the colonoscopy done)

b) Apparently I react very well...almost too well...to the typical local anaesthetics and sedatives/hypnotics and Heavy Opiates that I've had in procedures short of general anesthesia. :D

(Novocaine at the dentist's? Me happily hitting the side of my face for the next three hours raving about "I CAN'T FEEL MY LIPS TEEHEE". Nitrous? Do not consider me a responsible adult afterwards the rest of the day. Alfentanil/propofol cocktail (keep in mind alfentanil is an ultra-short-acting Heavy Opiate)? I go BOOM THUD as soon as the stuff goes in my veins, and apparently I spent 45 minutes post-colonoscopy raving about how alfentanil was my Very Favourite Antibiotic In The Entire World--apparently I remembered in my delirium that the drug class started with "a" but I managed to munge it. Apparently I was the source of MUCH hilarity in post-colonoscopy-post-op; shame I don't remember a bit of it until I came to came-to.)
 
2012-04-30 09:37:55 PM  
Zzzdoc

Well, damn! I thought I'd found a solution. Oh well. Thanks for the info.
 
Rat
2012-04-30 09:52:45 PM  
Zzzdoc

I had a patient that we hadn't even prepped yet (for an acromioplasty if it makes a difference) sit up a little and pull their LMA out, and clear as day stated "my throat's dry". The BIZ monitor said 39. It was then and only then that my faith in the monitor went away. The anesthesiologist never used it again. A little propofol and we were good to go, and she didn't remember a thing.

That being said, I wonder if this particular didn't get any narcotics. God bless narcotics.

©
 
2012-04-30 09:58:08 PM  

Great Porn Dragon: Apparently I was the source of MUCH hilarity in post-colonoscopy-post-op; shame I don't remember a bit of it until I came to came-to.)


Apparently I begged for water from everyone that looked like they worked at the hospital, I must have been really thirsty. I've been told that I was not allowed to have anything until I farted some more. I remember a good portion of the procedure, and it hurt, but the second half of it, the upper endoscopy, and a bit of post op are gone from my mind.
 
2012-04-30 10:03:06 PM  
The problem was that he could feel it.

I know I'm different but why should you freak the heck out if you are being operated on by a professional?
 
2012-04-30 10:04:57 PM  

penthesilea: penthesilea: one knee on the armrest and one hand on my forehead

*hand was the missing word there. She didn't have a knee on my head.


How odd. My brain filled in the missing word "hand." I saw your second comment and scrolled up confused. Strange.
 
2012-04-30 10:52:28 PM  

SnarfvsMaximvs: Satanus Maximus:
Pneumothorax sucks. I'm 6'6" and had my first collapsed lung two years ago. Felt like really hardcore heart burn. Couldn't lay down unless I wanted knife stabbing pain in my chest with extreme shortness of breath. I was wide awake during my surgery. The Germans used only local anasthetic for the hole in my chest and pushed that damn vacuum tube all up inside. The best part was the morphine though. I'm not looking forward to another episode of this because it means a more invasive surgery to attach my lung to the chest wall. Being tall and at risk for this shiat is da' bomb!

I think local anesthetic is normal for the initial chest tube -- at least, when Kaiser did mine that's all I got, and there was no particular urgency.

When they fixed me up with laparoscopic surgery, they dusted the inside of the lung cavity with talcum or something, which causes scarring and binds the lung to the cavity -- it's supposed to prevent recurrence. Also, the morphine sucked -- it did nothing to take away the pain and just made me nauseous. No idea how people can get addicted to that crap. Vicodin on the other hand...


Yep the chest tube alone is pretty simple and they don't put you out for that. I've lost track of how many of those I've had. The procedure you're talking about is pleurodesis - I've had that four times, twice on each lung. They score the tissue and then squirt in talc to basically glue your lung back to the chest wall. And yeah, that comes with lots of morphine, vicodin, and oxycodone. Fuuuuuun times.
 
2012-04-30 10:55:41 PM  
I woke up during my wisdom teeth surgery. I heard the dentist say "That's going to hurt later." (had two impacted teeth). I moaned to catch their attention and was quickly put back to sleep. When I asked about it, of course it was denied anything happened.
 
2012-04-30 11:02:09 PM  
penthesilea: My Dentist only numbed the fark outta my mouth. No one even offered anything more than that. I had to hear every crack, grind, & saw. And I had the fun of watching a not quite 5 ft tall asian lady using all the strength god *didn't* give her to try to yank the damn things out. There were times she had one knee on the armrest and one hand on my forehead. She looked like she wrestled a bear and somehow won by the time she was done with all four.

Stabone33:Mine were pretty well impacted, so they weren't coming out without cutting, cracking, and prying. I actually went to an oral surgeon, not a dentist.


Yeah, mine were in the same condition as yours, hence my dentist being sweaty, sore and looking like hell by the time it was all over.
 
2012-05-01 12:11:54 AM  
About ten years ago I had eye surgery and according to my doctor (I do not recall it happening) I sat up on the table while surgey was in progress and starting talking. They had to give me more stuff to keep me down he said.

Worse than that was when I had a root canal They gave me as much numb juice as they could but I could still feel it. My own personal marathon man

frankmengarelli.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-01 12:14:49 AM  
The usual, a colonoscopy, with Versed. Apparently I had pretty much talked the nurse into going home with me when the doctor spoiled everything. He said "Dude, that's my wife you're trying to pick up." I'm sure he said "Dude" because my girlfriend confirmed it.
The pain came much later.
Versed is great entertainment.
 
2012-05-01 01:47:43 AM  
All I remember about anesthesia was being told to count, then the next thing I knew, I couldn't move, but my leg was twitching violently, rocking the cart. It didn't really bother me, because in the moment, I was quite certain that I was a small plant growing outside my childhood home. Then a heavy blanket fell on my leg and I started pulling my brain together. I couldn't open my eyes, then decided to ask what time it was and realized I wasn't saying anything. I tried again, a woman told me and I thanked her, but I don't think I actually said it. She told me everything went fine, and it was only then that I tuned back in and realized I'd had surgery. With that, I was out cold again.

/ Also once fell asleep on my arm, putting my arm to sleep so deeply that when I started to wake up, I briefly thought I had discovered my own severed arm laying next to me, which seemed profoundly interesting. It took a few seconds for a different part of my brain to realize that was a serious problem and wake me up in unbridled terror.
// Am so very glad that these CSBs are boring.
/// Consciousness is weird.
 
2012-05-01 01:50:09 AM  

greenlady1: I've had 4 upper endoscopies, ... Especially since I'm having surgery again this summer, l and I really don't want to wake up while they've got sharp objects up my nose.


I've had nth endoscopes and facial surgery.

You are awake for the facial surgery. They put you out with a general then pump you full of local then bring you out of the general. It's to reduce bleeding as you tend to dialate when out. I had flashback memories a decade after that of feeling the suppressed pain. Ugh.

Now for endoscopes they use Versed which causes amnesia so you don't remember being awake if you do.
 
2012-05-01 01:53:00 AM  

geocacherphil: I make Propofol for a living so I'm really getting a kick...


I read up on tht stuff due to the Michael Jackson story. It's white due to the suspension in oil. How is that good to inject oil into the bloodstream?
 
2012-05-01 06:18:47 AM  

namegoeshere: punistation: [www.abc.net.au image 218x219]

Every single person who I have spoken to personally and have claimed to have woken up during surgery also admitted they smoke marajuana, or were heavy users in the past.

Doctors know it affects your tolerance to anastheasia. Lie about your personal use and history at yourt own risk. Even telling the truth may not save you. Doctors still cannot accurately sedate a person when their body has been exposed to cannabis in the past.

I'm going to have to ask the anesthesiologists floating around the thread to comment on this, plz.


ZZZ mentioned this too, but yeah - marijuana users aren't much different from tobacco users during surgery. I don't know of a specific study looking at marijana use vs self-reported episodes of recall, and it's plausible that it affects whether you remember parts of recovery (ie everything was finished but you weren't 100% awake yet) as "being awake during surgery"- I don't know for sure about that. But the intraoperative effects are pretty minimal.

Cocaine on the other hand...
 
2012-05-01 06:39:46 AM  
A bit late to this party, but I did wake up from general anesthesia when having my wisdom teeth removed. All four were impacted and I had to see a surgeon to have them removed. I'm certain it was anesthesia, it was billed to me as general anesthesia and I was also billed for an additional shot, it was itemized as such.

Having said that, it really wasn't that bad. My first feeling was annoyance at all the noise and being shaken around while I was feeling so sleepy. It took a bit to realize the noise was because he was breaking my tooth out. I recall I made some sort of noise (I was trying to say, "Stop it"), then I tried to move away. I don't really know if my movements were actually successful, because it was at that point I got another shot.

I woke up later with the hiccups, but still very out-of-it from the anesthesia. i remember not being able to control myself well enough to hold my breath and stop them and just sort of sitting there helplessly crying. The nurse came in to ask why I was crying, I told her because I have the hiccups. I don't remember what she did, but she got them to stop and I soon fell back asleep.

Vicodin is evil stuff though. Evil. As soon as I took my first dose, I was violently ill and threw up. It was awful, I got dry socket from all the puking and I will never take that shiat again.
 
2012-05-01 07:36:01 AM  
cdn-images.hollywood.com
"You didn't jump up and kick their asses? Pussy."
 
2012-05-01 09:12:02 AM  

Allornone: RembrandtQEinstein: dletter: So, did he wake up and hear that his wife was trying to kill him?

Why would anyone who wasn't me have seen that terrible terrible movie...

Sadly, I saw it too. I kept thinking it was going to cross the line into so-bad-it's-actually-entertaining realm (a la Showgirls). By the time I realized that, no, it was just farking bad, i had invested too much time into it. I was going to finish that piece of shiate movie if it killed me.

/it was painful
//like being awake during surgery


The thing about the movie is, the premise wasn't awful, and the script started ok but went off the rails about 2/3 through, but, despite some solid actors, even the better ones like Terrance Howard were acting like they were in a junior high play the whole time.
 
2012-05-01 03:09:33 PM  
randomjsa

I know I'm different but why should you freak the heck out if you are being operated on by a professional?

Because it hurts?
 
2012-05-01 05:19:07 PM  

katerbug72: Aquapope: katerbug72: You should feel a c-section.

If the "Kidlet" in your profile is the result, I highly recommend C-Sections. That is one cute baby!

Awww thanks, I made him myself.


Erm, no, thanks, the laparoscopic hysterectomy was bad enough and there's no chance of that now ^_~
 
2012-05-01 05:42:37 PM  

Diogenes: I wake up before I wake up from anesthesia. But then again, I can sleep with my eyes open and carry on conversations when I'm asleep.

Mom took me for my last wisdom tooth extraction where I went under. I don't remember events afterwards until we were already in the car and on the way home. But she tells me it was like I hopped off the bed and exclaimed I was ready to go home and started walking out the door on my own power.

Similar for my hernia. But the muscle pain thing kept me in check.

Difference between me and this guy is I'm not aware of what's going on. It's more like my brain goes on autopilot.


I woke up during my hernia operation while they were sewing me up. I could talk and move, but didn't feel any pain, so the anesthesia was still working.
 
2012-05-01 08:01:55 PM  
Had this happen to me during an emergency surgery to repair the radial peripheral artery on my left hand after I nicked it with a retractable razor knife while cutting plastic banding. It wasn't general anesthesia, just something they put in an IV to sedate me. I remember something pulling and tugging on my wrist, and the vascular surgeon saying, "Hey he's waking up! Put him back under."
 
2012-05-01 11:56:51 PM  

northguineahills: I woke up during my hernia operation while they were sewing me up. I could talk and move, but didn't feel any pain, so the anesthesia was still working.


How did they react?
 
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