The Dutch PM quit over unable to pass his austerity plans. The French are gonna vote Sarkozy out of the office because of his austerity plan. Spain falls into recession again in spite of its austerity plan.

All of this is undermining Germany and Merkel's push for austerity across the the eurozone...

I'd not be surprised if the whole thing just implodes

Also, the germans are scared as fark of hyperinflation... last time they had that, some guy with a funny mustache rose to power...

Spain's high unemployment throws country into recession

I think typically the causation goes the other way.

Dinobot: The Dutch PM quit over unable to pass his austerity plans. The French are gonna vote Sarkozy out of the office because of his austerity plan. Spain falls into recession again in spite of its austerity plan.

All of this is undermining Germany and Merkel's push for austerity across the the eurozone...

I'd not be surprised if the whole thing just implodes

Also, the germans are scared as fark of hyperinflation... last time they had that, some guy with a funny mustache rose to power...

I don't think Germany will go as far this time as they did last time things imploded for them, they're actually doing decently at the moment (compared to their neighbors), but if the eurozone collapses all sorts of not good is going to happen in Europe.

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: I don't think Germany will go as far this time as they did last time things imploded for them, they're actually doing decently at the moment (compared to their neighbors), but if the eurozone collapses all sorts of not good is going to happen in Europe.

Yeah, I don't think so either, but they're still scared as hell of uncontrolled inflation. (I mean, who wouldn't) but for them is something that is on their psyche.

And yeah, they're doing ok at the moment, but there's already internal turmoil... the austerity doctrine is starting to hurt germany's exports and the industry is not very happy with merkel about it.

Damn looks like a mess. But probably a hell of a time to vacation there.

FlashHarry: Dinobot: Spain falls into recession again in spite because of its austerity plan.

FTFY

austerity is the wrong prescription here. it's already sent the UK back into recession. it's needed, but you have to get the economy healthy first.

Well, yeah, that's kinda my point -- it just undermines' Merkel's position of austerity as the panacea needed for the eurozone problems.

Mrbogey: Austerity isn't meant to make things better. It's meant to keep things from getting far worse. It's either mild to moderate recession now or depression later.

If we take money out of the economy, it will make things better!

Austerity plans haven't worked in a single country where it has been tried. How many more times does it have to fail before we abandon it as an economic plan?

Wasn't Spain's most common profession ALWAYS siesta? I'm not saying they're a lazy people....but they enjoy a less frantic pace of life. I loved it when I visited though, and I think Spain would be an AWESOME place to retire to.

HMS_Blinkin: Wasn't Spain's most common profession ALWAYS siesta? I'm not saying they're a lazy people....but they enjoy a less frantic pace of life. I loved it when I visited though, and I think Spain would be an AWESOME place to retire to.

Spain's biggest industries were tourism and... people retiring and buying houses there. Both of these industries dried up after 2008. That, in addition, to the same failed tax and banking policies followed by Ireland, the United States and several other European countries is what is causing their problems, not a lack of productivity.

groppet: Damn looks like a mess. But probably a hell of a time to vacation there.

That's what I'm doing in two weeks!

K.B.O. Winston: I keep waiting for the prices on House Hunters International to go down. My imaginary real estate tycoon hobby still costs more hypothetical dollars than I'd like.

/hubby & I are hoping to retire to Ireland
//or Portland, OR

No Belize?

Unemployment for people under 25 years old is a brutal 52%.

if thats true.. that should scare the hell out of them. rebellious teens.. with nothing to do or hope.. thats a fire storm waiting to happen

Mrbogey: YodaTuna: Mrbogey: Austerity isn't meant to make things better. It's meant to keep things from getting far worse. It's either mild to moderate recession now or depression later.

If we take money out of the economy, it will make things better!

Austerity plans haven't worked in a single country where it has been tried. How many more times does it have to fail before we abandon it as an economic plan?

You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

Your attempts at a strawman should leave you feeling embarrassed.

How about you show basic reading comprehension before asserting economic literacy.

Guess you're not one for sarcam, eh?
But you did nicely dodge the bones of his post:
Austerity plans haven't worked in a single country where it has been tried. How many more times does it have to fail before we abandon it as an economic plan?

K.B.O. Winston: Dinobot: K.B.O. Winston: I keep waiting for the prices on House Hunters International to go down. My imaginary real estate tycoon hobby still costs more hypothetical dollars than I'd like.

/hubby & I are hoping to retire to Ireland
//or Portland, OR

No Belize?

Too much sand. Not enough beer.

Not enough beer!?

Mrbogey: YodaTuna: Mrbogey: Austerity isn't meant to make things better. It's meant to keep things from getting far worse. It's either mild to moderate recession now or depression later.

If we take money out of the economy, it will make things better!

Austerity plans haven't worked in a single country where it has been tried. How many more times does it have to fail before we abandon it as an economic plan?

You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

Your attempts at a strawman should leave you feeling embarrassed.

How about you show basic reading comprehension before asserting economic literacy.

As an actual economist rather then a GED in Economics, I can say your comment was stupid. Austerity has been tried for years now, and it has failed miserably. Just as it's failed in the past. There's no "Moderate pain now and recovery later" vs "No pain now and collapse later". People who look at economics as some kind of morality play like this -- and that is what's implicit in your comments -- are farking idiots.

Austerity ensures collapse.

RickyWilliams'sBong: Mrbogey: YodaTuna: Mrbogey: Austerity isn't meant to make things better. It's meant to keep things from getting far worse. It's either mild to moderate recession now or depression later.

If we take money out of the economy, it will make things better!

Austerity plans haven't worked in a single country where it has been tried. How many more times does it have to fail before we abandon it as an economic plan?

You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

Your attempts at a strawman should leave you feeling embarrassed.

How about you show basic reading comprehension before asserting economic literacy.

As an actual economist rather then a GED in Economics, I can say your comment was stupid. Austerity has been tried for years now, and it has failed miserably. Just as it's failed in the past. There's no "Moderate pain now and recovery later" vs "No pain now and collapse later". People who look at economics as some kind of morality play like this -- and that is what's implicit in your comments -- are farking idiots.

Austerity ensures collapse.

Oh and recklessly spending and spending and spending and running up trillion dollar deficits every year won't cause any problems whatsoever huh?

We'll just kick the can down the road, and keep right on expanding already unsustainable levels of entitlement spending. How do we pay for that all? THE BUFFETT RULE!!! MAKE THOSE EVIL RICH PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!!!! That measure will take in a whopping 4.7 billion a year more in taxes, a drop in the farking ocean. At least that's Obama's cynical election year slogan..........er I mean.......solution to our money problems.

The whole of Western Europe, with the exception of possibly Germany, is paying the price for decades of ever expanding social welfare and government-centric society. They simply hit their breaking point, just like the restaurant owner from the movie "Goodfellas". "When you can't borrow another buck from the bank..........you bust the joint out........you light a farking match."

Their pain should serve as a warning to us of the dangers of pursuing such policies yet this idiot President of ours continues to pursue them. He's not alone, of course. He has plenty of condescending, drive-by, pseudo-intellectuals like you who simply call your opponents stupid and uninformed, then run away.

Mrbogey: Austerity isn't meant to make things better. It's meant to keep things from getting far worse. It's either mild to moderate recession now or depression later.

Austerity will make things worse.

It keeps the common consumer from purchases which hurts business. Business will respond by laying off workers, so consumer spending falls even further, so business sales fall again, Then business lays off even more workers, etc...

The time to reign in budget deficits is when the recovery is firmly under way. And then increased tax receipts can be used to pay back debt.

Mrbogey: That does not follow.

If the austerity were just reducing government debt, you have a point.
But since it's reducing services that people depend on and otherwise can't afford, that's what their money will be going to, not businesses. And businesses aren't going to use their tax breaks to hire anyone when demand has slumped.

Sergeant Grumbles: Mrbogey: That does not follow.

If the austerity were just reducing government debt, you have a point.
But since it's reducing services that people depend on and otherwise can't afford, that's what their money will be going to, not businesses. And businesses aren't going to use their tax breaks to hire anyone when demand has slumped.

So your argument is that the government should never stop doing anything, because that will require the economy to adjust?

But as others have said, austerity isn't a "strategy for recovery" or even a plan to help the economy. It is simply facing reality.

And to point out reduction in GDP when austerity is imposed is a tautology.

YixilTesiphon: So your argument is that the government should never stop doing anything, because that will require the economy to adjust?

Never suggested it. But thanks for the words in my mouth.
Austerity to massively cut public services in an already down economy can do nothing but damage the economy. If we'd actually approach debt reduction with this in mind, instead of the standard "Screw those poor people. If they really wanted 'x' they'd get a job and pay for it themselves." we might actually be able to collectively sacrifice and carry the burden, rather than slob the knobs of bankers and corporatists who will immediately point out they're not obligated to help anyone but themselves.

DrPainMD: As an "actual economist" you should realize that continued deficit spending only kicks the can down the road, making the problem worse in the long run, and has also never worked.

Oh and this little lie. FDR disagrees.
The entire idea is to deficit spend to kick the can down the road, kickstart the economy, and then pay down the deficit during the prosperity afterward. Politicians have a problem with the last part, but that doesn't make the entire idea bad, nor untrue.

Sergeant Grumbles: DrPainMD: As an "actual economist" you should realize that continued deficit spending only kicks the can down the road, making the problem worse in the long run, and has also never worked.

Oh and this little lie. FDR disagrees.
The entire idea is to deficit spend to kick the can down the road, kickstart the economy, and then pay down the deficit during the prosperity afterward. Politicians have a problem with the last part, but that doesn't make the entire idea bad, nor untrue.

The biggest flaw with that logic is that it freely assumes that the same politicians that use taxpayer money to buy votes and get re-elected will do the responsible thing concerning fiscal matters. That's a laughable proposition at best.

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: The biggest flaw with that logic is that it freely assumes that the same politicians that use taxpayer money to buy votes and get re-elected will do the responsible thing concerning fiscal matters. That's a laughable proposition at best.

That's a criticism of the politicians, not the deficit spending itself. Also does nothing to disprove austerity is a bad idea.
But thanks for playing.

DrPainMD: FDR is a perfect example. America's average standard of living fell continuously from the onset of the depression until AFTER WW2, when government spending dropped, debt was paid down, and millions of people who were employed in the economically unproductive war effort were laid off.

That's called The Great Depression and war rationing, you retard.