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(The Daily Caller)   Televangelist Joel Osteen: While I believe homosexuality is a sin, we can't discriminate against gay people. They should be treated as equals and be loved   (dailycaller.com ) divider line
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12838 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 3:06 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 10:48:47 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Gordon Bennett: God-is-a-Taco: Really? Hmm. I could have sworn it was strongly hinted the sly trickster was that sly trickster with a dozen names. Wasn't he usually depicted as serpentine?

That was in Paradise Lost by John Milton. The modern idea of Satan is largely based on that work. Many people confuse quotes from it as being from the Bible.

The Jewish Bible/Christian Old Testament has no mention whatsoever of Satan or a devil figure of any kind. The concept simply doesn't exist in Judaism. It's all God, whether merciful, wrathful, creating or demanding.

*Ahem* The Book of Job?


Same name, different concept. The duality between a god of pure good and one of pure evil in opposition to one another is of Persian origin. It's not the same as a divine servant who questions or tests a man's devotion.
 
2012-04-30 10:50:11 AM  
Scripture? What scripture?

Commandment 11 (c. 2004): Thous shalt not suck cock if you have cock.

Hero my ass, Subby. He's just a Telvanjerk trying to appeal to young people to come to his mega-church and give him money.
 
2012-04-30 10:52:45 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Interesting, thank you. I had assumed that most people would not have taken it literally, similar to Christians.
Are there any texts readily available to a layman? I perfectly understand if you don't want to tell me, much as you will never know how to get less than a 3 minute time on Mario Circuit in Time Trial mode.


Yeah I am sorry, but I am just not gonna get into that, for multiple reasons, including the fact that;

- Most of these sources are in Hebrew or Aramaic
- Even if they were (most likely badly, by a layman who just took a dictionary, rather than someone who knows what he's doing) the commentaries that are necessary to understand these are all in Hebrew and Aramaic
- Those are very deep concepts that would require you to familiarize for hundreds of hours with various other subjects to know what's going on
- We have a special Jewish handshake needed to pass over that knowledge


Plus, 3:30 is good enough for me
 
2012-04-30 10:52:52 AM  

SuwonROKs: Oh are you saying we should strive to have great minds like the giraffes? Of course homosexuality occurs in nature. Some people/animals are born malfunctioned. I have no problem with that. I'm just not going to jump out and say I accept their behavior. Autistic kids freak out. Bipolar people freak out in public. What they do is not acceptable behavior but we deal with it. Same with gays. What someone does in their own bedroom is none of my business. Keep it to yourself and I'll keep my opinions to myself.


I'm OK with saying that homosexuality is an abnormality in the genetic code or whatever, just like being redheaded or left-handed. It's not the best condition for propagating the species, but for all we know that could be why it exists.

I'm glad you don't care what consenting adults do in their bedroom, but I hope your "keep it to yourself" comment doesn't mean that you don't believe a gay co-worker should be able to bring his/her spouse or significant other to a company party just like the straight people do.

There's roller-skating down Fifth Avenue waving a rainbow flag, and then there's saying, "I'd like you to meet my boyfriend." Some people say they're OK with gay people as long as they don't flaunt their sexuality. Meanwhile, every time a straight person casually mentions their spouse or BF/GF, they're they are doing the same thing. I'm sorry it makes you feel icky, but please remember if it makes you uncomfortable when somebody lets you know they're gay, how many times a day you let people know you're straight.
 
2012-04-30 10:54:38 AM  

jaedreth: Jesus taught one to love ones enemies and to not contend with evil.

It's nice to see a Christian actually listening to these things.


Sure, he's just another huckster attempting to give a point of difference to the version of the product he's pushing, but yeah, it is nice to see a Christian virtue actually expressed by a Christian.

Now, if we could get the morons in Congress and the hatemongers lobbying them to understand that.
 
2012-04-30 10:57:33 AM  

Cewley: you ever looked at Osteen? the gaydar is going bonkers.


img687.imageshack.us
 
2012-04-30 10:59:45 AM  

cwolf20: gimmegimme [TotalFark]

If only they didn't spend so much time thinking about a fake pretend made-up deity. Imagine what they could do with their admittedly otherwise strong intellects!

Now just tell that to atheists who study the bible in order to argue against christians.


How else do you suggest we prevent fundamentalists from establishing a theocracy and using their religion to subvert the Constitution and law. ? (Even more.)? (Even more.)

DingleberryMoose:

gimmegimme: And if you have no empirical evidence to support your belief in a deity, why do you bother?

I've been popping off a lot in this thread, but this deserves a serious answer from me because it strikes a chord. My first memory is being beaten with a 2x2 by my mother because I said something that upset her in front of her mother. I was three years old and I can remember dreading it because I know it was coming. Mom and I went home with Mom upset, she dragged me out of the car and into the back yard and beat the crap out of me. I used to wear long pants all summer to hide the marks on my legs. It happened repeatedly until I was old and big ...

Well, I am certainly saddened by what happened to you. You have the right to believe you were touched by whatever force you like (just so long as you don't try to violate the wall between church and state).

Have you considered that you are stronger than you think you are? Guess what. You got through such a harrowing situation all on your own.
 
2012-04-30 11:01:21 AM  

WhyteRaven74: DingleberryMoose: That there's a good question, and I haven't an answer.

Funny thing about the story is God calls out asking where Adam and Eve are, and doesn't know what they've done until he sees them. That doesn't exactly jive with the idea of an omniscient god, yet almost no one ever picks up on it.


It's not necessarily written that way. It's more that God was in the garden and said, "Where are you?" "I wuz nekkid and I hid!" "Who told you that? You been doing something I told you not to do?" It's more like leading asking questions to a child to show them you know what they've been doing and want them to come clean. Like when I find playdough in the carpet. I don't ask Steven who put it there because I don't know, I ask him so he'll admit it.

/nobody touches on Cain's wife, either
 
2012-04-30 11:01:36 AM  
Why are you gays so damned worried about whether people accept or like you anyways? Damn, this is one of the things about gay people that sucks. You're so farking sensitive. You can't just live and let live, you won't be happy unless every last person on earth stands up and declares that being homosexual is fabulous.

It's not about being denied services, or jobs, or whatever. That farking almost never happens. It's about you not liking it when people look at you as being odd. Well, too bad. Grow a pair. Not everyone is going to like you in life.

This preacher is saying what damned near all Christians think...your sin is no worse than any other sin, and all sin separates us from God. Don't expect anyone to celebrate and embrace your sin, but to discriminate against you is not what good, decent people should do.
 
2012-04-30 11:04:38 AM  

TheOmni: "I believe the Scripture says that being gay is a sin,"

And I know this is a somewhat clichéd response by now, but I still haven't heard a real satisfying answer to it. I just want to ask them why do they believe that being gay is a sin, but ignore the other messages in the bible about shellfish and blended cloth being a sin and slavery being fine and dandy?


So here is the deal, the Old testament does talk about shellfish and mixed fibers in the same way as homosexuality, however, the New Testament does not. In the New Testament Christ basically tells the people that teachings of the Old Testament are old, and while the message remains, the specific rules do not. In other books in the new testament they talk about certain actions that would prevent you from getting into heaven, which includes sodomy, or even being a feminine acting man.

In Leviticus it claims a man shall not lay with another man, that it is an abomination, and that they both shall be put to death, Christ wasn't in favor of this, he believed you love all, and through your love, you convince them to change their ways.

Right, Wrong, i don't claim the answer, I'm just letting you know why the shellfish or mixed fiber stuff isn't spoken of in the same way these days.
 
2012-04-30 11:05:51 AM  
Fundamentalist a-hole preachers are a sin against both god and man, but we can't discriminate against manipulative hypocrites either.

So I guess we're even.
 
2012-04-30 11:05:52 AM  
I'm really late to this party, but I'm going to contribute, anyway.

First off, the Bible doesn't say that "being gay" is a sin, only that "homosexual acts" are sinful. There's a difference. The suggestion that "being gay is a sin" makes an impression that heaven is closed off to people who are gay, and that just isn't true. I suspect there will be plenty of gay people in heaven.

There are plenty of churches that openly welcome gay people while more or less ignoring the Bible passages that condemn homosexuality. There are churches (Episcopalian, Lutheran) that ordain gay ministers. There are churches that march in gay pride parades. You guys just don't pay attention to them because they're apparently not crazy enough.

From my standpoint, the Bible is pretty clear on this issue. But that in and of itself is not discriminatory against gays, nor does it mean they're going to hell. We're all sinners, and there are plenty of sins to go around. It's a sin for me to covet my neighbor's stuff. That doesn't mean that I'm going to hell because I'm jealous of my neighbor's red SUV.

I don't know why so many Christians are so preoccupied with this issue, I don't. Divorce is a far more troublesome societal pest than is the fact that gays want to get married. Jesus himself didn't exactly wage a war against homosexuality when he was here. So no, I don't get it.

And I'm not even going to comment on Mr. Osteen's alleged "prosperity gospel," which is almost as scary as that smile of his.
 
2012-04-30 11:06:18 AM  

gimmegimme: You have the right to believe you were touched by whatever force you like (just so long as you don't try to violate the wall between church and state).

Have you considered that you are stronger than you think you are? Guess what. You got through such a harrowing situation all on your own.


Unlike some people who come here to spout off, I've actually read a bit of history here and there. It doesn't take much intelligence to figure out a theocracy is scary as hell, especially with some of the more restrictive religions (Fundamentalist Christianity included) in control. And, yeah, it could be I got through all that crap by myself. Or it could be I had a little help. It seems more the latter. YMMV, I don't really proselytize, other than trying to be a decent human being and being willing to say I do it, at least in part, from biblical directive. What I said up there was simply my story from my perspective.
 
2012-04-30 11:08:03 AM  
Televangelists survive because of their ability to figure out where the herd is going and get out in front.
 
2012-04-30 11:09:31 AM  

Cheeseburger: macadamnut: Cheeseburger: I see slavery in the Bible mentioned a lot in these threads. Slavery (servitude) was often voluntary (for economic reasons) in that area.

There's a lot of organized rape in the Bible too. Those sluts.

And as such God obviously condones and encourages it, right?


No, because God has nothing to do with the Bible.
 
2012-04-30 11:09:55 AM  

Madbassist1: theDesertHamster: Well according to Exodus 35:2 Anyone who does any work on the Sabbath should be put to death. Sorry Vicars/Priests/Televangelists, you're working on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is actually Saturday, not Sunday. another Big Lie you've been told often enough to believe it.


If you're Jewish (or in one of the minor christian sdects), yes. It was shifted to a Sunday in very early Christianity, starting in the first century. One of the first bits of "selective editing" of that particular novel, apparently if you get your editing in early enough it is ok ;-)

/I'm just waiting for the "Directors Cut" to come out.
//apparently it contains unicorns
 
2012-04-30 11:11:28 AM  

mazeville: I don't know why so many Christians are so preoccupied with this issue, I don't. Divorce is a far more troublesome societal pest than is the fact that gays want to get married. Jesus himself didn't exactly wage a war against homosexuality when he was here. So no, I don't get it.


Right there with ya, with a possible answer: It's a safe minority to condemn. People always seem to need to think or feel themselves superior to the "other people." That's where lots of the OT dietary and lifestyle restrictions come in, to set them apart from everyone else. It's been the uncircumcised, the different skin color, the different gender, the other nationality or political leaning, et cetera, for ages. Gay is the new Negroid, Mr. Crow just moved his nest.
 
2012-04-30 11:13:14 AM  

theDesertHamster: /I'm just waiting for the "Directors Cut" to come out.
//apparently it contains unicorns


upload.wikimedia.org

Are you trying to imply that Christ was a replicant?! Mind blown...
 
2012-04-30 11:13:36 AM  

Occam's Nailfile: This preacher is saying what damned near all Christians think...your sin is no worse than any other sin, and all sin separates us from God. Don't expect anyone to celebrate and embrace your sin, but to discriminate against you is not what good, decent people should do.


Really? The sad part is that the government of several states and, by implied extension, a plurality of constituents in those states, disagree - remember, this is the country in which sodomy was illegal across great swathes of the country until just 9 friggin' years ago.

Until legal protections exist to back what you're saying, it's simply not true. There are way too many folks who are backing "homosexuality is a sin, and therefore it should be illegal and those who follow it should be shunned and persecuted" as a concept to buy into the "damned near all Christians think" bit.

Even if what you say is true - where are they? Where are the Christians protesting the religious extremists who have apparently commandeered their religion's message of peace and love and are using the Bible as a flog to back their personal prejudices and hate?

When DOMA passed, where was the Church, for that matter? No, I can't agree with your supposition. Instead, I see a bunch of people happy to look away while a vocal few do their dirty work, betraying the very principles Jesus taught when he embraced the leper and the whore. John 33 is pretty clear on the whole concept of "pardon, but do not acquit" idea - but instead I see Christians anxiously looking around for a stone to heft.
 
2012-04-30 11:14:44 AM  

Tatsuma: Then again, if we're gonna prosecute people for homosexual acts, I say we start with Bronies.


theDesertHamster: /I'm just waiting for the "Directors Cut" to come out.
//apparently it contains unicorns


ponyvillegazette.com
/hotlinked for your protection
 
2012-04-30 11:16:11 AM  

SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature


I live with my mom
 
2012-04-30 11:16:43 AM  

mazeville: I'm really late to this party, but I'm going to contribute, anyway.

First off, the Bible doesn't say that "being gay" is a sin, only that "homosexual acts" are sinful. There's a difference. The suggestion that "being gay is a sin" makes an impression that heaven is closed off to people who are gay, and that just isn't true. I suspect there will be plenty of gay people in heaven.

There are plenty of churches that openly welcome gay people while more or less ignoring the Bible passages that condemn homosexuality. There are churches (Episcopalian, Lutheran) that ordain gay ministers. There are churches that march in gay pride parades. You guys just don't pay attention to them because they're apparently not crazy enough.

From my standpoint, the Bible is pretty clear on this issue. But that in and of itself is not discriminatory against gays, nor does it mean they're going to hell. We're all sinners, and there are plenty of sins to go around. It's a sin for me to covet my neighbor's stuff. That doesn't mean that I'm going to hell because I'm jealous of my neighbor's red SUV.

I don't know why so many Christians are so preoccupied with this issue, I don't. Divorce is a far more troublesome societal pest than is the fact that gays want to get married. Jesus himself didn't exactly wage a war against homosexuality when he was here. So no, I don't get it.

And I'm not even going to comment on Mr. Osteen's alleged "prosperity gospel," which is almost as scary as that smile of his.


Because you can't stop divorce, marriage and homosexuality are still up in the air in most states, and most people still assume marriage must be consummated, you can't consummate a gay marriage without committing one of those homosexual acts which would result in a sin.

Of course the real question is, does the law have any standing when the primary reason against it is sin. Even most right wingers would believe that the 1st amendment pretty clear on the subject, having a law based on a sin would imply the government is supporting that religion.
 
2012-04-30 11:17:06 AM  

whenIsayGO: I'm OK with saying that homosexuality is an abnormality in the genetic code or whatever, just like being redheaded or left-handed. It's not the best condition for propagating the species, but for all we know that could be why it exists.


As someone that's left handed, the only time its a problem is when right handed people aren't thoughtful and make it a problem.

I assume it's similar for homosexuality.
 
2012-04-30 11:17:23 AM  

Thread is probably over with the first two comments.

But if you give the guy the benefit of the doubt here's something for you Christians to think about:

JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS.



I think it says that in there somewhere or something. Go check. Also some stuff like "Judge not lest ye be judged" and stuff.

It seems to me that if you fail to "love thy neighbor" and instead just harp on their sins or try to somehow prevent them (e.g. no beer on Sundays) you're making Jesus' death pretty meaningless. And trying to keep homosexuals from raising a family, being in a monogamous relationship, or joining a church seems to me like working directly against your supposed principles.

Just sayin'.


"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi
 
2012-04-30 11:20:15 AM  

FormlessOne: Occam's Nailfile: This preacher is saying what damned near all Christians think...your sin is no worse than any other sin, and all sin separates us from God. Don't expect anyone to celebrate and embrace your sin, but to discriminate against you is not what good, decent people should do.

Even if what you say is true - where are they? Where are the Christians protesting the religious extremists who have apparently commandeered their religion's message of peace and love and are using the Bible as a flog to back their personal prejudices and hate?



They don't make the news because they don't incite enough rage, or maybe they are off doing more important things, like feeding the poor, and helping out victims of the recent storms. The news makes new money with stories that people don't want to care about, and unfortunately even the local news has to sell ads, and they have to compete for viewers.
 
2012-04-30 11:23:09 AM  

gimmegimme: Pat Robertson Pic


Aw, heck. You people can't read what I've typed above, Pat says I'm the spirit of the Antichrist. I shall henceforth cease to speak or think in opposition to Patty Pat Pat's viewpoint.

/glad I decided to stop and read the drivel, that bit was amusing
 
2012-04-30 11:26:15 AM  

Zombalupagus: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi


"Jews should have left Hitler kill all of them" - Gandhi
"I love to sleep naked next to underage virgins. Its for religious reasons guys!" - Gandhi
"Negroes are subhuman" - Gandhi
 
2012-04-30 11:26:23 AM  

king_nacho: They don't make the news because they don't incite enough rage, or maybe they are off doing more important things, like feeding the poor, and helping out victims of the recent storms.


Shhh! Christians doing Christian stuff like they're supposed to are like flatulence, they aren't to be mentioned in polite company.
 
2012-04-30 11:28:56 AM  

DingleberryMoose: king_nacho: They don't make the news because they don't incite enough rage, or maybe they are off doing more important things, like feeding the poor, and helping out victims of the recent storms.

Shhh! Christians doing Christian stuff like they're supposed to are like flatulence, they aren't to be mentioned in polite company.


My, bad, i wasn't clear on that.
 
2012-04-30 11:30:00 AM  

Tatsuma: Zombalupagus: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi

"Jews should have left Hitler kill all of them" - Gandhi
"I love to sleep naked next to underage virgins. Its for religious reasons guys!" - Gandhi
"Negroes are subhuman" - Gandhi


www.icanhasinternets.com
 
2012-04-30 11:32:11 AM  
Even the Bible concedes Jealous God only wrote one thing ever --the original Ten Commandments (the tablets Moses smashed in a fit of pique.) The second edition preserved in the Ark was carved by Moses while Elohim dictated.

Jealous God didn't think homosexuality was bad enough to make the Top Ten. Jesus didn't think it was bad enough to even mention.

So if you think homosexuality is a sin of particular gravity, you're giving more weight to the house rules of the Levite tribe and the prejudices of the Pharisee Paul of Tarsus than the teachings of your God and/or Jesus.

Jesus had nothing good to say about Pharisees. Nothing. He called them snakes on several occasions. How much clearer does this need to be made for you, Christians? Jesus warned you about venomous alluring-but-corrupt-inside false prophets like Paul.

Paul the serpent holds out the apple of homophobia, and the self-righteous gobble it down.

It takes a believer to miss the obvious.
 
2012-04-30 11:33:10 AM  

king_nacho: DingleberryMoose: king_nacho: They don't make the news because they don't incite enough rage, or maybe they are off doing more important things, like feeding the poor, and helping out victims of the recent storms.

Shhh! Christians doing Christian stuff like they're supposed to are like flatulence, they aren't to be mentioned in polite company.

My, bad, i wasn't clear on that.


It is kind of funny how you so seldom hear of things like church-sponsored relief services or the NOROC program our presbytery is very involved with.
 
2012-04-30 11:36:09 AM  
DingleberryMoose:

Oh, trust me, while they were paraphrases, those are things that Gandhi absolutely said.

He was a really racist dickhead.
 
2012-04-30 11:39:24 AM  

bim1154: TheShavingofOccam123: Jerry Falwell signed an out-of-court settlement regarding his comments about gays causing the 9-11 attacks. Apparently, he agreed to apologize and pay lots of money somewhere.

Perhaps guys like Joel have seen the writing on the ledger books and decided to avoid lawsuits by being tolerant.

Or maybe he loves unconditionally.

Or maybe it's the first step into easing the impact of something in the future.


Is that a lube joke? Just asking. Not judging.
 
2012-04-30 11:40:40 AM  

steamingpile: Christ some of you people are a glass half empty type people


Also known as "bartenders."
 
2012-04-30 11:41:04 AM  

Ishkur: Joel Osteen is not a pastor. He is a marketer, a salesman, and a motivational speaker pretending to be a pastor. He has large seminars, not sermons, where he oversells strategies for personal fulfillment through God. He even has a squeaky clean image like a Christian Tony Robbins. Occasionally he will say "God" and "Jesus", but these terms are not requisite to understanding his message. He doesn't quote scripture, he doesn't denounce sin, and his workshops are inspirational, positive Pollyanna optimism with very little actual religious content.

This has made him enormously successful with the new religious and the casual religious set - people who treat the Bible like the Terms of Agreement page on a software license: They don't read it, they just skip to the bottom and click "I Agree". Biblical literalism and incessant quoting of scripture - while impressive - isn't going to win these people over. What Osteen has done is create a need they didn't have before they came to see him, a time-honored trick befitting his background in marketing and television production. In effect, Osteen has sold Christianity to people who aren't interested in Jesus or Christianity. He is to be commended for that even if it's all just false prophet theatrics.

There is certainly a lucrative market in promising Heaven to a class of cafeteria Christians who are only interested in knowing that God exists. Everyone wants to go to Heaven but no one wants to put in the groundwork required to get there. After all, if you can't pick and choose what God likes or dislikes about you, what's the point of having a God?

What Osteen has done is what every famous pop philosopher and demagogue has done throughout history: Tell people what they want to hear and make sure it doesn't compromise their existing lifestyle. I suppose God should do something Job-like to this guy but there are a lot worse people in history who've gotten away with far more.


I couldn't have said it better myself! You're 100% right on about folks like that.
 
2012-04-30 11:42:26 AM  

tekmo: Even the Bible concedes Jealous God only wrote one thing ever --the original Ten Commandments (the tablets Moses smashed in a fit of pique.) The second edition preserved in the Ark was carved by Moses while Elohim dictated.

Jealous God didn't think homosexuality was bad enough to make the Top Ten. Jesus didn't think it was bad enough to even mention.

So if you think homosexuality is a sin of particular gravity, you're giving more weight to the house rules of the Levite tribe and the prejudices of the Pharisee Paul of Tarsus than the teachings of your God and/or Jesus.

Jesus had nothing good to say about Pharisees. Nothing. He called them snakes on several occasions. How much clearer does this need to be made for you, Christians? Jesus warned you about venomous alluring-but-corrupt-inside false prophets like Paul.

Paul the serpent holds out the apple of homophobia, and the self-righteous gobble it down.

It takes a believer to miss the obvious.


Truth

"Christian" is a misnomer for most of the more vocal nutjobs. "Paulian" would be much more accurate.
 
2012-04-30 11:47:35 AM  

Tatsuma: DingleberryMoose:

Oh, trust me, while they were paraphrases, those are things that Gandhi absolutely said.

He was a really racist dickhead.


Look not to disbelief when snark is the more likely culprit. I just thought the pic/misquote was funny in that spot. Lots of people have said stupid things.

RabidRythmDivas: "Christian" is a misnomer for most of the more vocal nutjobs. "Paulian" would be much more accurate.


Agreed.
 
2012-04-30 11:51:57 AM  
mazeville

I'm really late to this party, but I'm going to contribute, anyway.

First off, the Bible doesn't say that "being gay" is a sin, only that "homosexual acts" are sinful. There's a difference. The suggestion that "being gay is a sin" makes an impression that heaven is closed off to people who are gay, and that just isn't true. I suspect there will be plenty of gay people in heaven


At least get the terminology right. Homosexual is an offshoot to HomoSapien. Neither word was written down on scrolls by a drunk pharisee/scribe/theologian. It was however written by a drunk scientist at some point after a bunch of colonists got drunk and had a tea party.

The phrasing usually consisted of "And man will lay down with man" or something along those lines depending on the translation.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm rusty on bible knowledge. And need to find out if I have anything written down somewhere to tell me when I learned the words scribe and theologian. I have a hard enough time remembering pharisee.
 
2012-04-30 11:55:14 AM  

WTF Indeed: How dare he attempt to preach Christian Love! Jesus never said anything about loving sinners or accepting people as they are.


It's that concept that I love to remind Catholic priests (and their more fervent followers) about any time I hear their anti-"those people" rant.

If you're going to let the teachings of a person be your guide, you can't let some guy in Rome pick and choose which are okay, and which aren't.
 
2012-04-30 11:56:51 AM  

Tatsuma: - We have a special Jewish handshake needed to pass over that knowledge


There's a gansta sign joke in there somewhere...

/ You know how there's a joke thats kinda over the line you don't bother trying to polish or even really find the punchline?
// This is one of them.
 
2012-04-30 11:57:47 AM  

DingleberryMoose: Tatsuma: Zombalupagus: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi

"Jews should have left Hitler kill all of them" - Gandhi
"I love to sleep naked next to underage virgins. Its for religious reasons guys!" - Gandhi
"Negroes are subhuman" - Gandhi

[www.icanhasinternets.com image 640x443]


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2012-04-30 12:00:40 PM  

TheOmni: Durendal: TheOmni: If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Gotta call bullshiat here. Not that I have any love for Bible-thumping assholes, but using this logic, you can say that believing anything that anyone does is wrong for any reason means it's just hate and bile. Not every church is about fire and brimstone, and not every Christian is an angry hatemonger. There's no shortage of such in the news, but believe it or not, that's not always the case. Christianity believes that a great number of things are sinful. That doesn't mean they hate every sinner by default.

If one believes that something someone else does is wrong and they deserve to go to hell for it, when that something doesn't actually harm anyone and is an intrinsic part of who they are then I have a hard time feeling that that is not hateful. And not every church is about fire and brimstone, and I totally could be mistaken here, but I was under the impression that the concepts of heaven, hell and eternal judgment were standard features. Are there Christian sects that don't believe in hell?

I don't think that they hate every sinner by default (at least, the ones that state they don't. There are plenty that openly state that they hate the sinner too), but that "hate the sin love the sinner" concept still focuses on the sin which leads other people (especially young people) to hate the sinner.


I think you missed Durendal's point here, in that while it's pretty crappy they consider something as natural as homosexuality to be against nature, at least Osteen is arguing that Christians should not be treating homosexuality as a particularly terrible sin worse than the other ones (as in, "why are we so obsessed about this one sin, when there are far worse ones we ignore on a daily basis". I'm no fan of Osteen but I can appreciate him asking for a little consistency and less hate here; I still disagree with him theocratically but cannot criticize him advocating that people treat others as people first and not letting one's spiritual bent override one's respect for those other people.
 
2012-04-30 12:01:46 PM  

X_Legend: The funny thing here is how badly people are interpreting the catechism. I went to a Catholic college, without growing up in a religious family. Those Jesuits, I swear they have an IQ test before they'd let you in. Every single one of them are brilliant. Continue with the religion-hate, but I guarantee everyone on FARK would lose a debate with a Jesuit.


Nobody "wins" a religious debate, or a philosophical debate, or any debate like that, because it's all made-up bullshiat. The only person who "wins" is the guy who deludes himself into thinking he's an intellectual powerhouse because he learns how to use a bunch of words about meaningless stuff better.

I see these debates going on all the time. Too bad those people can't use their intelligence to actually do something meaningful, instead of talking endlessly about how they are the superior intelligence because they can debate meaningless things.

Go do a math problem, genius. Then I'll believe how smart you are.
 
2012-04-30 12:09:51 PM  
the gay bashing thing is more a cultural thing rather than a religious one. Gay bashing it seems has become fashionable with the religious right because it is also heavily infuse with politics.
Does the Bible state that homosexuality is a sin? I think everyone knows the answer to that. However it also says adultery and infidelity is a sin as well. As a matter a fact the Bible talks about about the sins of 'straight' people that homosexuality yet in modern day America it seems like gay bashing is tolerated and in some circles even encourage while infidelity is societally and culturally accepted even though in the Bible both are equally sinful.
 
2012-04-30 12:26:39 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Cagey B: Anyone that would apply a "hero" tag to a televangelist needs to be punched repeatedly in the kidneys.

With an icepick.


That's on fire.
 
2012-04-30 12:40:20 PM  

SuperNinjaToad:
Does the Bible state that homosexuality is a sin? I think everyone knows the answer to that.


Obviously, they don't.
 
2012-04-30 12:58:48 PM  
Love the sinner
Hate the sin
It ain't rocket science
 
2012-04-30 12:59:14 PM  
I think church should be restricted to people 18 and older. It's dangerous filling children's minds with lies and hate. It often causes them to grow up to be bigoted, ugly people.
 
2012-04-30 01:00:51 PM  
I'll be the hundredth person to say this: If you think homosexuality is a sin, then fark you. Nobody needs your conditional "acceptance" or "tolerance" or whatever you want to call it, because it's fake. Just fark you and your insecure god right up the ass.
 
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