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(The Daily Caller)   Televangelist Joel Osteen: While I believe homosexuality is a sin, we can't discriminate against gay people. They should be treated as equals and be loved   (dailycaller.com) divider line 475
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12829 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 3:06 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 04:23:26 AM

mjg: Osteen is as much a theologian as Dr. Phil is a medical doctor.

/sanctimonious asses


Funny thing, though, is that Dr. Phil has never claimed to be a medical doctor. He does, however, have a Doctor of Philosophy Degree in clinical psychology.

/Not a fan of Dr. Phil.
//Just saying.
 
2012-04-30 04:24:19 AM
"Treated as equals"? They are your equals, you pompous self-righteous jack-ass.
 
2012-04-30 04:25:49 AM
I can't tell if it's a sad reflection of how far my standards and expectations regarding the loudest Christian voices have fallen or a sad reflection of the atypical evangelist's countenance toward teh gays, but reading that sort of cheered me up.

/It's the best we're going to get from far leaning Christians.
//According to my beliefs, your lifestyle is condemning you for eternity. But, in the meantime while we have to share this rock, I'll do my best to support your right to make the decision to choose such a path.
 
2012-04-30 04:26:18 AM
I believe religion is a sin, but we can't discriminate against religious people, they should be treated as equals and loved too.



On the original comment - It's not perfect, but it's a huge step forwards. Good to hear.
 
2012-04-30 04:29:57 AM

TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.


Mortal son is the only sin you go to hell for. There is two kinds if sin. Homosexuals dont fall in that category. Only Jesus can judge.

/roman catholic.
/neither democrat or republican( equally evil)
/stop the hate. From all sides. It's all wrong. No race card. No gay card. It's all played out and open season to attack anyone anymore.
 
2012-04-30 04:31:24 AM

SuwonROKs: /an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature


Homosexuality has been actively observed in over 1500 species (while homophobia has been actively observed in only one). It is more of a natural law than it is a human one.

The natural world doesn't really discriminate between sex for pleasure and sex for procreation. When the whole animal kingdom is taken into account, consensual monogamous courtship is actually pretty rare. Most animals engage in abundant levels of rape, coercion, brutality, infidelity, homosexuality, situational sexual behavior, group sex, masturbation and explicit life-threatening and occasionally fatal sexual perversions - everything from cannibalism and necrophilia to castration and coprophagia and felching and everything in between - with clear conscience. Humans are the only ones who have socio-sexual morals. The law of the natural world with regards to sex is one of promiscuity and opportunism. Outside of that there are no laws.
 
2012-04-30 04:35:47 AM

Christian Bale: So he's going against God's pronouncement then? And admits it?


If the sentiment is honest and not cynical pandering to the (actual) moderates, it just means he's been unable to resolve the glaring contradiction between what his morality says is right and what he thinks his infallible translation of an ancient book says is right.

/ It's a step in the right direction from someone whose peers are entrenched and judgmental. That's worth a cookie.
 
2012-04-30 04:36:19 AM

Ed Grubermann: What's the matter, Sunshine? Don't like what your religion teaches? But it's even worse that Keizer_Ghidorah says. Not only did God curse mankind because a mere defenseless child, that He created that way, was tricked by the serpent, he cursed every living thing on earth and all of their descendants to short, brutal lives filled with fear, disease, parasites, pain, and, for the vast majority, violent death at the claws and teeth of predators. And then, when He got angry with us for being less than perfect, a condition He knew would come about before He ever made us, He killed off all but two (and maybe seven of a few select species) of every living thing on earth in a flood.


Because I can't sleep tonight, I'll parse this a piece at a time.

Not only did God curse mankind because a mere defenseless child, that He created that way, was tricked by the serpent
If you want to be literal about it, Adam and Eve had been in the garden for quite some time and weren't children. They also weren't tricked, they willfully disobeyed a direct imperative after they'd been warned of the consequences. I get mad when my 5 year old kid does this, why shouldn't God?

he cursed every living thing on earth and all of their descendants to short, brutal lives filled with fear, disease, parasites, pain, and, for the vast majority, violent death at the claws and teeth of predators
This is reasonably inaccurate, and shortened quite a bit. Specifically, God said the snake would crawl on his belly and be most accursed of the animals, the woman would have pain in childbirth, and Adam would have to actually work for a living by plowing the soil. Note that Eve didn't have a name yet at this point in the tale.

He killed off all but two (and maybe seven of a few select species) of every living thing on earth in a flood.
I don't know anybody who's not a Southern Baptist who takes the flood story literally, and it's borrowed anyhow. There does seem to be some historical basis for its inclusion into the narrative, however.
 
2012-04-30 04:37:04 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

If that was true, then why are there gay animals, from giraffes to fish? Why are gay children born to straight parents? Why does gay happen at all? If it wasn't natural, it wouldn't exist.


Oh are you saying we should strive to have great minds like the giraffes? Of course homosexuality occurs in nature. Some people/animals are born malfunctioned. I have no problem with that. I'm just not going to jump out and say I accept their behavior. Autistic kids freak out. Bipolar people freak out in public. What they do is not acceptable behavior but we deal with it. Same with gays. What someone does in their own bedroom is none of my business. Keep it to yourself and I'll keep my opinions to myself.
 
2012-04-30 04:40:08 AM

Ishkur: Homosexuality has been actively observed in over 1500 species (while homophobia has been actively observed in only one). It is more of a natural law than it is a human one.

The natural world doesn't really discriminate between sex for pleasure and sex for procreation. When the whole animal kingdom is taken into account, consensual monogamous courtship is actually pretty rare. Most animals engage in abundant levels of rape, coercion, brutality, infidelity, homosexuality, situational sexual behavior, group sex, masturbation and explicit life-threatening and occasionally fatal sexual perversions - everything from cannibalism and necrophilia to castration and coprophagia and felching and everything in between - with clear conscience. Humans are the only ones who have socio-sexual morals. The law of the natural world with regards to sex is one of promiscuity and opportunism. Outside of that there are no laws.




Mallards, those cute ducks, engage in all this stuff. A few years ago a male mallard was in the act of homo-necrophilia, buggering the corpse of a recently expired male mallard... nature is farking sick sometimes.
 
2012-04-30 04:43:30 AM
 
2012-04-30 04:43:44 AM

God-is-a-Taco: What was wrong about it? They were told not to eat the Fruit of Knowledge, Satan tempted them, and now there's Original Sin.
Bonus points if you include Lilith who was banished when she refused to be a servant of Adam instead of an equal.

Some denominations send the unbaptized babies to hell, and others to purgatory. Either way, our natural state is on bad terms with God despite the blood sacrifice of Jesus.



Let's be ticky-tack and get something straight. There's no indication of any kind this was Satan or a fallen angel or a demon or a devil or whatever, it was a serpent. And the very first telling of woman's creation makes it clear she is supposed to be taken as an equal. I never even heard the Lilith story until well after I gave up on the denomination I was raised to follow. I find it interesting, especially in light of the creation of the first woman.

tinfoil-hat maggie: Other than that what did he miss?


The fun stuff. You can parse tons out of the first three chapters of Genesis, much of it contradictory to itself.
 
2012-04-30 04:44:53 AM
Joel Osteen 2012.
 
2012-04-30 04:45:12 AM

DingleberryMoose: If you want to be literal about it, Adam and Eve had been in the garden for quite some time and weren't children. They also weren't tricked, they willfully disobeyed a direct imperative after they'd been warned of the consequences. I get mad when my 5 year old kid does this, why shouldn't God?


If your kid takes a cookie after you tell him no, do you make him toil in the earth and make his sister have terrible pain? No? Then God overreacted. Also, where the hell do you get off punting on the thing that they wanted was KNOWLEDGE.. God wanted us stupid and compliant. That's not existence, that's half a step from an organic robot.

DingleberryMoose: I don't know anybody who's not a Southern Baptist who takes the flood story literally, and it's borrowed anyhow. There does seem to be some historical basis for its inclusion into the narrative, however.


.... you think something mathematically impossible shouldn't be taken literally. Bold stance.
 
2012-04-30 04:47:12 AM

CK2005: yeah, you're doing such a great job of keeping your opinions to yourself. moran.


LoL : )
 
2012-04-30 04:51:31 AM

Ishkur: SuwonROKs: /an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

Homosexuality has been actively observed in over 1500 species (while homophobia has been actively observed in only one). It is more of a natural law than it is a human one.

The natural world doesn't really discriminate between sex for pleasure and sex for procreation. When the whole animal kingdom is taken into account, consensual monogamous courtship is actually pretty rare. Most animals engage in abundant levels of rape, coercion, brutality, infidelity, homosexuality, situational sexual behavior, group sex, masturbation and explicit life-threatening and occasionally fatal sexual perversions - everything from cannibalism and necrophilia to castration and coprophagia and felching and everything in between - with clear conscience. Humans are the only ones who have socio-sexual morals. The law of the natural world with regards to sex is one of promiscuity and opportunism. Outside of that there are no laws.


I will go on the record and say that is a very excellent point and I've never thought of it that way before. You may have changed my outlook a little. I'll always see homosexuality as something that is very disgusting but seriously you've made me think about it in a broader sense.

I've had too many gay dudes hit on me. I've never had a problem with it unless they didn't give up after telling them I'm straight. Mainly those are the guys I have a real problem with. If I was a woman I could just slap them in the face but since I'm a guy it would be a hate crime. Huh.
 
2012-04-30 04:51:36 AM

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!:
Mortal son is the only sin you go to hell for. There is two kinds if sin. Homosexuals dont fall in that category. Only Jesus can judge.
/roman catholic.
/stop the hate. From all sides. It's all wrong. No race card. No gay card. It's all played out and open season to attack anyone anymore.


The Catholic Church's Catechism states that homosexual acts is a mortal (or grave) sin.

Another stated mortal sin is Scandal, defined as:
an attitude or behavior that leads another to do grave sins.

Your attitude is good for the world and I'm happy to see it this way, but you're going to Hell with us apostates and masturbators. Sorry.
 
2012-04-30 04:54:07 AM

DingleberryMoose:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Other than that what did he miss?

The fun stuff. You can parse tons out of the first three chapters of Genesis, much of it contradictory to itself.


Man I remember once when I was really high and reading the bible it said the could here his footsteps and if I remember right it was actually pluarl.
So...
sheamacleod.files.wordpress.com
/Really creation myths are just that and really the flood? You disappoint me but at least your link was to a place that seemed to say it wasn't global.
 
2012-04-30 05:00:01 AM

DingleberryMoose:
Let's be ticky-tack and get something straight. There's no indication of any kind this was Satan or a fallen angel or a demon or a devil or whatever, it was a serpent.


Really? Hmm. I could have sworn it was strongly hinted the sly trickster was that sly trickster with a dozen names. Wasn't he usually depicted as serpentine?

And the very first telling of woman's creation makes it clear she is supposed to be taken as an equal. I never even heard the Lilith story until well after I gave up on the denomination I was raised to follow. I find it interesting, especially in light of the creation of the first woman.

Yeah, "taken from his side as to not be above or below him", right?
I'm not a woman, but I appreciate what feminists see in her. She wouldn't serve Adam, and even went against God in doing so. How badass is that?


The fun stuff. You can parse tons out of the first three chapters of Genesis, much of it contradictory to itself.

Yeah, I agree. I see a lot of "Pandora's Box" in the Christian creation myth.
 
2012-04-30 05:02:56 AM

saintstryfe: If your kid takes a cookie after you tell him no, do you make him toil in the earth and make his sister have terrible pain? No? Then God overreacted.


I didn't give any opinion on the severity of God's action, I just said I get mad at my kids, too.

saintstryfe: Also, where the hell do you get off punting on the thing that they wanted was KNOWLEDGE.


Didn't punt, just didn't address it. The fruit brought not knowledge but wisdom, which almost always brings much sadness. It's very similar to the story of Pandora's box.

saintstryfe: God wanted us stupid and compliant. That's not existence, that's half a step from an organic robot.


Or you can look at the situation as God not wanting Adam and the soon-to-be-named Eve to get into the sadness-inducing wisdom because they weren't ready for it yet, or it wasn't time, or for some other unknown reason. I tell my 5 year old not to plug and unplug electrical cords. One day, when he's a little steadier of hand, I'll remove that proscription. When I think he's ready, not when he thinks he's ready. (He's got a sensory processing issue and can't always line the prongs up correctly, I don't want him to fry himself.)

The point of this useless, rambling bit of text is that there are more than one way to take most of the things written in the Bible, more than one thing to read into the texts, more than one way to try to understand God. I'm not going to claim a monopoly on knowing who/what God is and is or is not about. I haven't meant to be inflammatory, although my "oversimplify much" statement could very easily have been taken in that way. If so, I apologize.

saintstryfe: .... you think something mathematically impossible shouldn't be taken literally. Bold stance.


Yeah, that's me.
 
2012-04-30 05:07:57 AM
Oh, my typos, oh well.
 
2012-04-30 05:13:09 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans


You're missing a vital point of the story.

The Original plan, was just God...and Adam.
Two guys. Adam would take of the garden, name the animals, and wasn't allowed to wear clothing.
Adam would wait for his Master to come home and OBEY his every word.

That was the Original plan. Then God in his mercy saw Adam was lonely being a naked, houseboy, gardener, and needed someone to boss around too....then he created Eve to be a servant of Adam..but she was a hot head and wanted more..and 3 ways never work out..and thing spiral out of control when a woman was involved in a guy on guy relationship.
So God kicked them both out.

But HIS original plan was Him and and another guy and a garden and pets. (Clothing optional garden).
 
2012-04-30 05:14:55 AM

God-is-a-Taco: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!:
Mortal son is the only sin you go to hell for. There is two kinds if sin. Homosexuals dont fall in that category. Only Jesus can judge.
/roman catholic.
/stop the hate. From all sides. It's all wrong. No race card. No gay card. It's all played out and open season to attack anyone anymore.

The Catholic Church's Catechism states that homosexual acts is a mortal (or grave) sin.

Another stated mortal sin is Scandal, defined as:
an attitude or behavior that leads another to do grave sins.

Your attitude is good for the world and I'm happy to see it this way, but you're going to Hell with us apostates and masturbators. Sorry.


We are already in hell my friend. I wish you well in all your journeys anyway.

/stands corrected on the homo mortal sin thing.

//either way I don't mind the gays. They're goofy but they don't bother me none.
 
2012-04-30 05:16:28 AM
god (if he is real) is a dick. He told adam and eve not to eat the fruit, and what did they do? They obeyed him! The did not eat the damned fruit. We do not know for how long, but for at least some period of time they did not eat the fruit. And how does the divine dick reward their obedience? He lets the farking devil into the garden to tempt them! god wanted them to fail, and when they did not fail he went and stacked the deck against them. Seriously, why would god let the devil into the garden of eden? The only logical answer as I see it is because he is a colossal dick.
 
2012-04-30 05:17:37 AM

mjg: Osteen is as much a theologian as Dr. Phil is a medical doctor.


Dr. Phil doesn't claim to be a medical doctor, the doctor art of his name is because he has a PhD in psych and anyone with a PhD can be addressed as doctor.

Godscrack: 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'


Actually Osteen isn't much into hell at all. Also one does not just by virtue of being a sinner end up in hell. Well neo-Calvinists have different ideas about that, but they're dimwits.

saintstryfe: ? No? Then God overreacted.


And you're totally missing the whole lesson of the story. Also one of the details it gives away.
 
2012-04-30 05:17:41 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: You disappoint me but at least your link was to a place that seemed to say it wasn't global.


Sorry to disappoint. I do think there was likely some historical flood, or maybe more than one, that lead to the inclusion of that particular bit in the Bible. It's found in too many religions from the same general time and area.

God-is-a-Taco: Really? Hmm. I could have sworn it was strongly hinted the sly trickster was that sly trickster with a dozen names. Wasn't he usually depicted as serpentine?


Genesis 3 starts out with saying the serpent was the shrewdest, or most clever, or most subtle beast God had created, depending on which translation you use. I can't read any of the old languages, so I can't get more specific as to the adjective. The serpentine nature of the trickster later in the Bible is likely an allusion to the story of the Fall, but the Fall itself specifically states the serpent is just a serpent, created by God like the rest of the animals. A serpent which can talk, but just a serpent. A really crafty, clever, shrewd, subtle snake who can talk and knows things people didn't know. A really crafty, clever, shrewd, subtle snake who can talk and knows things people don't know and picked the right sucker. There's also an implication here that people could speak to the animals before the fall, which could signify nothing or could, when considered with how attaining wisdom lead to the fall, lead one to believe humans didn't have to till the soil until they had evolved sufficiently to acquire the mental facilities to do so, but that's as blasphemous as anything else I've typed here tonight. Nothing to see here, move along...
 
2012-04-30 05:18:30 AM

optikeye: But HIS original plan was Him and and another guy and a garden and pets. (Clothing optional garden).


I am so stealing this.
 
2012-04-30 05:21:56 AM

optikeye: The Original plan, was just God...and Adam.


Well according to Genesis 2 it is, according to Genesis 1? Not so much.

God-is-a-Taco: Really? Hmm. I could have sworn it was strongly hinted the sly trickster was that sly trickster with a dozen names. Wasn't he usually depicted as serpentine?


The devil shows up quite a while later in the Bible, the serpent, was just a serpent. Also the depictions of the devil we're used to, aren't Biblical. Indeed almost nothing people think about the devil is Biblical. In the Bible the devil can at worst try to tempt you. Indeed the very presence of the devil seems to be little more than a literary device, basically a metaphor for temptation.
 
2012-04-30 05:22:01 AM

optikeye: Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans

You're missing a vital point of the story.

The Original plan, was just God...and Adam.
Two guys. Adam would take of the garden, name the animals, and wasn't allowed to wear clothing.
Adam would wait for his Master to come home and OBEY his every word.

That was the Original plan. Then God in his mercy saw Adam was lonely being a naked, houseboy, gardener, and needed someone to boss around too....then he created Eve to be a servant of Adam..but she was a hot head and wanted more..and 3 ways never work out..and thing spiral out of control when a woman was involved in a guy on guy relationship.
So God kicked them both out.

But HIS original plan was Him and and another guy and a garden and pets. (Clothing optional garden).


LoL: )

/you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.
 
2012-04-30 05:22:33 AM

WhyteRaven74: And you're totally missing the whole lesson of the story. Also one of the details it gives away.


Wait'll he gets bored enough to read Job.
 
2012-04-30 05:23:23 AM

DingleberryMoose: Wait'll he gets bored enough to read Job.


*snort* good one! :D
 
2012-04-30 05:24:25 AM

DingleberryMoose: optikeye: But HIS original plan was Him and and another guy and a garden and pets. (Clothing optional garden).

I am so stealing this.


...according to KJV of the Bible. (the literal word of god) not the lilith story etc.

The Original plan was two guys, pets, garden. No clothing. (in a kinda "master/slave" relationship).

Eve was an afterthought. KJV of Bible.
 
2012-04-30 05:25:33 AM
This may have been said...but a farkin hero tag for someone who wants to deny people the right to marry? They should have equal rights, cept marriage because Jesus. How is this somehow different then the normal nonsense spewed by the fundies?
 
2012-04-30 05:27:16 AM
What an amusing thread this has become.

Thank you fark.com
 
2012-04-30 05:28:06 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.


Lilith is from Hebraic myth, and not generally mentioned by Christians when discussing the creation stories. She, like many of the older commentaries on the OT, have been largely forgotten by mainstream Christianity.

Also, consider this when entering into any conversation regarding the Old Testament.
 
2012-04-30 05:28:36 AM

DingleberryMoose: WhyteRaven74: And you're totally missing the whole lesson of the story. Also one of the details it gives away.

Wait'll he gets bored enough to read Job.


Hey I love that book.
i.neoseeker.com
: )
 
2012-04-30 05:31:22 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: Hey I love that book.


I don't remember how long it's been since I read it, but that is a fun book. If you don't want it there, why do you grow it there?
 
2012-04-30 05:33:48 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.


Lilith doesn't count for people that follow the literal KJV of the Bible. She only appears in Jewish texts. So, if you're talking to a Christian that doesn't follow Jewish 'myths' or texts not in the cannon of the KJV of the bible...she (Lilith) doesn't count.
 
2012-04-30 05:38:10 AM
Sheesh, it's past 4:30 in the morning and I've got to get up soon and go save the world one more time. You folks have fun and say mean things about me, I'll come back and read them later.
 
2012-04-30 05:42:16 AM

DingleberryMoose: tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.

Lilith is from Hebraic myth, and not generally mentioned by Christians when discussing the creation stories. She, like many of the older commentaries on the OT, have been largely forgotten by mainstream Christianity.

Also, consider this when entering into any conversation regarding the Old Testament.


Oh, I know I just like the story and so few know it. Also it's only considered Hebraic as you say because some people didn't want it in the bible, like a lot of other books.

Also it's all Hebraic myth.

Nice video BTW, also yea I do believe that the flood stories have come from some where mostly the end of the Younger Dryas.
 
2012-04-30 05:43:03 AM
Cool info, guys, thanks. These stories are great. People shouldn't base their lives on them, but they're great stories.

And, yeah, Job. Job, Job, Job.

When I was hearing the story I kept waiting for a "Count of Monte Cristo" moment but it never came. He had the time, he had the motive. Damn it, Job. It could have been a great allegory.

And damn it, I couldn't find the old Parking Lot is Full comic that had God kicking Adam out of the Garden of Evil for "choosing heterosexuality".
 
2012-04-30 05:47:19 AM

Fark Me To Tears: Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

But he still loves you. You're still welcome to join his church and give him money.

Exactly. Well said. Thank you.


Actually that is not what Osteen believes. Only Catholics think you have to never sin(farking impossible) to get into heaven. The protestant flavors of Christianity believe that as long as you believe that Christ is the savior and accept him as such you are going to heaven. Doesn't matter what or how many sins you commit. At least all of the flavors I have encountered.

Now obviously they all believe that you shouldn't sin, when you do ask God to forgive you for sinning, and be genuinely remorseful for it. But sinning doesn't damn you to hell, rejecting Christ does.
 
2012-04-30 05:49:23 AM

optikeye: tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.

Lilith doesn't count for people that follow the literal KJV of the Bible. She only appears in Jewish texts. So, if you're talking to a Christian that doesn't follow Jewish 'myths' or texts not in the cannon of the KJV of the bible...she (Lilith) doesn't count.


Oh I know : )
 
2012-04-30 05:51:08 AM

optikeye: tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.

Lilith doesn't count for people that follow the literal KJV of the Bible. She only appears in Jewish texts. So, if you're talking to a Christian that doesn't follow Jewish 'myths' or texts not in the cannon of the KJV of the bible...she (Lilith) doesn't count.


She never even existed according to the Christian faiths.
 
2012-04-30 05:51:17 AM
On the one hand, it is laudable that he is preaching tolerance.

On the other, his core belief on the subject is still backward and prejudiced.

Worst use of the img1.fark.net tag in a loooong time.
 
2012-04-30 05:53:43 AM

Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

But he still loves you. You're still welcome to join his church and give him money.


I don't think that's what he's saying at all.

If you believe their theology, everyone sins. In some versions of Christianity, sinners go to hell. In others, only certain sins send you to hell. Catholics, for instance, have mortal sins and venial sins. Mortal sins are things like murder, and those won't be forgiven.

And if you become a christian and ask forgiveness, you get to go to heaven instead because Jesus died for your sins, to give you the chance for eternal salvation.

This is a basic part of the Christian theology. Every person sins, and the route to heaven is through Jesus.

I don't believe in the theology, but I grew up Baptist.

If you want to take issue, I think this part is more worthwhile. "I'm not for gay marriage, but I'm not for discriminating against people." It's one sentence, and he can't make up his mind. He says No to gay marriage, and then says he doesn't want to discriminate. I don't see how you can tell someone "you are not allowed to marry the person you love" and still believe that you aren't discriminating against them.
 
2012-04-30 05:54:42 AM
Somewhere, Jack Van Impe is doing his best Nikke Finke impersonation..."Toldja" (you have to know the televangelist business to understand that)

Real news is not Osteen "coming out".....Real News would be Pat Robertson coming out
 
2012-04-30 05:54:44 AM

DingleberryMoose: Sheesh, it's past 4:30 in the morning and I've got to get up soon and go save the world one more time. You folks have fun and say mean things about me, I'll come back and read them later.


Night, you're still a yummy daddy to me : )

Just remember hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute fore a good blaster at your side : )
 
2012-04-30 05:55:25 AM

DjangoStonereaver: On the one hand, it is laudable that he is preaching tolerance.

On the other, his core belief on the subject is still backward and prejudiced.

Worst use of the [img1.fark.net image 54x11] tag in a loooong time.


Coming from that background I can tell you it's a HUGE step and a big risk for a guy like him. Might not look like it, but it's a breakthrough. Assuming he doesn't get run out on a rail for it.
 
2012-04-30 05:56:26 AM

Callous: optikeye: tinfoil-hat maggie: /you still forgot Lilith but yea she was even more independent than eve and that was bad.

Lilith doesn't count for people that follow the literal KJV of the Bible. She only appears in Jewish texts. So, if you're talking to a Christian that doesn't follow Jewish 'myths' or texts not in the cannon of the KJV of the bible...she (Lilith) doesn't count.

She never even existed according to the Christian faiths.


I'm pretty sure I don't exist either according to the christian faiths.
 
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