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(Discovery)   Surprising contributor to global warming: wind farms   (news.discovery.com) divider line 308
    More: Interesting, global warming, wind farms, Discovery News, West Texas, zhou, warm air, farming, wind turbines  
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17278 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2012 at 12:20 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-30 01:01:12 AM
Ah yes, lets build more coal power plants and spread the environmental impact everywhere the wind blows instead of having a predictable, manageable local impact. Brilliant!

/go newkewlar!
 
2012-04-30 01:03:03 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Point02GPA: With all that air moving about you should be able to put some sort-or-a device there, that would utilize said wind, and produce electricity.

Wouldn't that increase ground temperatures at night though?


Make it a day time type job...just don't forget to turn it off when you go home.
 
2012-04-30 01:04:04 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Zhou cautioned that his study used satellite data, which can have errors from clouds, for example, rather than temperature readings taken at the surface. He said he hopes to improve his dataset, and look at wind farms in other parts of the world.

Uh... yeah


Satellite data. The same NASA/NOAA data the AGW uses as an absolute, unquestionable proof that Earth's entire atmosphere is warning... is subject to errors. Due to cloud cover.

/interesting, but not unexpected to those that remember when ground stations were 100% accurate... until they started reporting data that didn't fit the narrative
//remember the tree rings?
 
2012-04-30 01:04:39 AM

Aussie_As: lazyguineapig33: a turbine takes energy out of the atmosphere then converts it to electricity which then gets converted into heat which goes into the atmosphere. no net change.

So the electricity produced is free energy? Wow, you've managed to turn physics on its head here. Should be a Nobel prize in this for you.


wut?

kinetic energy of wind--->kinetic energy of spinning turbine(and also heat)----->electricity(and also heat)

the (and also heat)s icrease the temperature around the turbines but no energy is added to the system.
 
2012-04-30 01:06:37 AM

Aussie_As: lazyguineapig33: a turbine takes energy out of the atmosphere then converts it to electricity which then gets converted into heat which goes into the atmosphere. no net change.

So the electricity produced is free energy? Wow, you've managed to turn physics on its head here. Should be a Nobel prize in this for you.


i dont know what you mean by 'free' energy. the whole point of a turbine is to convert energy from one from to another. in this case, the kinetic energy of the wind is turned into kinetic energy of the turbine shaft. the shaft energy is converted into electrical potential energy. the electrons go through a resistor and get turned into radiation and heat. that goes into the atmosphere.

farkin 1st law of thermodynamics how does it work?
btw youre taking to an mechanical engineer.
 
2012-04-30 01:06:39 AM
Huh, I thought man was incapable of affecting the climate. This changes everything.
 
2012-04-30 01:08:13 AM

lazyguineapig33: Aussie_As: lazyguineapig33: a turbine takes energy out of the atmosphere then converts it to electricity which then gets converted into heat which goes into the atmosphere. no net change.

So the electricity produced is free energy? Wow, you've managed to turn physics on its head here. Should be a Nobel prize in this for you.

i dont know what you mean by 'free' energy. the whole point of a turbine is to convert energy from one from to another. in this case, the kinetic energy of the wind is turned into kinetic energy of the turbine shaft. the shaft energy is converted into electrical potential energy. the electrons go through a resistor and get turned into radiation and heat. that goes into the atmosphere.

farkin 1st law of thermodynamics how does it work?
btw youre taking to an mechanical engineer.


Yeah I thought about this for a further 30 seconds and realised I'd farked up. Sorry folks.
 
2012-04-30 01:15:06 AM

GAT_00: Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

local climate

local climate


So...weather.

Which is not the same as climate.

LIKE I KEEP SAYING.
 
2012-04-30 01:15:54 AM

Aussie_As: So the electricity produced is free energy?


Free energy is nothing new

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-30 01:17:06 AM
How are we going to keep our neon signs advertising where McDonald's is lit all night long?

HOW???
 
2012-04-30 01:23:12 AM

GAT_00: Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

local climate

local climate


Wait; I thought that local warming/change was causal in the systematic change of global temperatures.

/ I guess I was wrong
// I keed, I keed
 
2012-04-30 01:30:04 AM

JRoo: How are we going to keep our neon signs advertising where McDonald's is lit all night long?

HOW???


10,000 hamsters.
 
2012-04-30 01:31:58 AM

b2theory: cman: If there is one green technology that I am interested in, it would be GeoThermal power production. True unlimited power that does not need wind (wind mills), or a sunny day (Solar power), or a stream of water (hydroelectric).

I have always wondered how close we are to such a reality

It is used where ever it is easy to get to. Unfortunately, that means its mostly Iceland.


Yes, where there is an active volcano for every 2500 inhabitants....a little different
 
2012-04-30 01:32:42 AM

cman: If there is one green technology that I am interested in, it would be GeoThermal power production. True unlimited power that does not need wind (wind mills), or a sunny day (Solar power), or a stream of water (hydroelectric).

I have always wondered how close we are to such a reality

~
http://NOTSUREIFSERIOUS.JPG/

Taking a farkload of energy out of the Earth.

Cooling it.

Sucking all that sweet sweeeet energy out of the Earth.

Can't see any problems at all.
 
2012-04-30 01:33:28 AM
My head hurts from reading the article and this thread. The assertion that wind blows stronger at night is wrong. The surface of the earth in general causes a lot of friction - WAY more than a little old wind farm. This friction is responsible for the planetary boundary layer, which are the winds very close to the surface - and they are much lighter than the winds at altitude because of said friction.

During the day, convective heating due to the big yellow one mixes the surface wind with some winds aloft and can result in stronger and gustier surface winds. But at night, the layer smooths back out and winds die down (with the exception of some coastal areas). So that assertion is false on its head.

Secondly, windmills may have an effect on the surface temperature of the immediate area in which they exist, much like a forest does, but in all they are but a minuscule part of the collective flow of the atmosphere. They might slow the air down a bit by causing a turbulent wash right behind the unit itself, but there is still plenty of volume moving through and it will pick back up pretty quickly. You are not going to see much change in temperature when the air "slows down" because it's not really slowing down, it is merely temporarily changing direction (turbulence) and still retains its molecular energy and is eventually swept back into the overall flow.
 
2012-04-30 01:42:23 AM
Entropy, how do it work?

/have been preaching this for years.
 
2012-04-30 01:46:14 AM

Charlie Freak: My head hurts from reading the article and this thread. The assertion that wind blows stronger at night is wrong. The surface of the earth in general causes a lot of friction - WAY more than a little old wind farm. This friction is responsible for the planetary boundary layer, which are the winds very close to the surface - and they are much lighter than the winds at altitude because of said friction.

During the day, convective heating due to the big yellow one mixes the surface wind with some winds aloft and can result in stronger and gustier surface winds. But at night, the layer smooths back out and winds die down (with the exception of some coastal areas). So that assertion is false on its head.

Secondly, windmills may have an effect on the surface temperature of the immediate area in which they exist, much like a forest does, but in all they are but a minuscule part of the collective flow of the atmosphere. They might slow the air down a bit by causing a turbulent wash right behind the unit itself, but there is still plenty of volume moving through and it will pick back up pretty quickly. You are not going to see much change in temperature when the air "slows down" because it's not really slowing down, it is merely temporarily changing direction (turbulence) and still retains its molecular energy and is eventually swept back into the overall flow.


You may never have lived in the desert or mountains. Wind can kill you late & early mornings.
 
2012-04-30 01:47:48 AM
Solar arrays probably have more impact.
 
2012-04-30 01:49:22 AM
Hunh, last I checked, most farmers around these parts (Washington State) put in dedicated, powered wind machines in their orchards to protect their crops from freezing - and have been for decades. They don't generate power, they only consume power as big fans, mixing the air.

I'm glad this scientist from New York put so much research into satellite data, when frankly most any farmer will tell you: "Yep, when it gets cold, we blow wind over the crops to warm them up"
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2012-04-30 01:50:33 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah

So, no matter what type of energy we try to use, we're going to destroy the planet regardless.

we *could* get everyone to ride a bike to work, but no. that would fix too many problems. it's not the profit driven american way.
 
2012-04-30 01:57:58 AM

MrSteve007: Hunh, last I checked, most farmers around these parts (Washington State) put in dedicated, powered wind machines in their orchards to protect their crops from freezing - and have been for decades. They don't generate power, they only consume power as big fans, mixing the air.

I'm glad this scientist from New York put so much research into satellite data, when frankly most any farmer will tell you: "Yep, when it gets cold, we blow wind over the crops to warm them up"


Pretty mountain in the background, too.
 
2012-04-30 02:06:49 AM

Gyrfalcon: Charlie Freak: My head hurts from reading the article and this thread. The assertion that wind blows stronger at night is wrong. The surface of the earth in general causes a lot of friction - WAY more than a little old wind farm. This friction is responsible for the planetary boundary layer, which are the winds very close to the surface - and they are much lighter than the winds at altitude because of said friction.

During the day, convective heating due to the big yellow one mixes the surface wind with some winds aloft and can result in stronger and gustier surface winds. But at night, the layer smooths back out and winds die down (with the exception of some coastal areas). So that assertion is false on its head.

Secondly, windmills may have an effect on the surface temperature of the immediate area in which they exist, much like a forest does, but in all they are but a minuscule part of the collective flow of the atmosphere. They might slow the air down a bit by causing a turbulent wash right behind the unit itself, but there is still plenty of volume moving through and it will pick back up pretty quickly. You are not going to see much change in temperature when the air "slows down" because it's not really slowing down, it is merely temporarily changing direction (turbulence) and still retains its molecular energy and is eventually swept back into the overall flow.

You may never have lived in the desert or mountains. Wind can kill you late & early mornings.


You're right in that mountains and desert can have some strange weather, but outside of storms it's just not as steadily windy on the surface in mountainous areas. Most wind farms are in the plains, where we don't have to deal with the (relatively) local phenomena of Katabatic winds.
 
2012-04-30 02:10:01 AM
fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net

The one across the road from me floats. You can't explain that.
 
2012-04-30 02:10:42 AM
In other news "Sex farm woman breaks like the wind."
 
2012-04-30 02:11:58 AM

crabsno termites: Entropy, how do it work?

/have been preaching this for years.


Grammar correct has not been kind to you.
 
2012-04-30 02:18:51 AM

GAT_00: Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

Turbines mix air at night and could affect local climate and farming.

local climate

local climate


But ALL of us live in a local climate!!
 
2012-04-30 02:19:05 AM
For god's sake, they aren't windmills, they are wind turbines.

mill: a machine for grinding, crushing, or pulverizing any solid substance, such as grain
windmill: a mill powered by the wind

turbine: a machine for producing continuous electric power
wind turbine: a turbine powered by the wind

Get it? Not that hard, tards.
 
2012-04-30 02:20:30 AM
So, I'm globally warming in my pants? At least after Taco Bell?
 
2012-04-30 02:25:30 AM
I wish it was warmer at the bottom some times(although I wont once summer gets into full swing in a few months). It gets hot up in the Nacelle though if you get up there right after you've shut the thing down. Thank god for the windows up top that we can use for ventilation.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-30 02:25:42 AM

ArcadianRefugee: For god's sake, they aren't windmills, they are wind turbines.

mill: a machine for grinding, crushing, or pulverizing any solid substance, such as grain
windmill: a mill powered by the wind

turbine: a machine for producing continuous electric power
wind turbine: a turbine powered by the wind

Get it? Not that hard, tards.


You should check the definition of "turbine" again.
 
2012-04-30 02:31:22 AM
This is only going to encourage that prick Donald Trump. Who I personally invite to stick his golf course up his arse.
 
2012-04-30 02:41:19 AM

Gyrfalcon:

You may never have lived in the desert or mountains. Wind can kill you late & early mornings.


Yeah no shiat. Air goes up in the morning, comes back down at night. And if you live near a pass or up along a ridge when a storm system comes in, I hope your house is firmly attached to the ground.
 
2012-04-30 02:42:05 AM
Thermodynamics don't work that way. This is what happens when statisticians attempt to study thermodynamics without adult supervision.
 
2012-04-30 02:43:24 AM

MrSteve007: Hunh, last I checked, most farmers around these parts (Washington State) put in dedicated, powered wind machines in their orchards to protect their crops from freezing - and have been for decades. They don't generate power, they only consume power as big fans, mixing the air.

I'm glad this scientist from New York put so much research into satellite data, when frankly most any farmer will tell you: "Yep, when it gets cold, we blow wind over the crops to warm them up"
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 427x640]


They do it in Oregon for pear and cherry orchards. These are the alternative to oil smudgepots burning all night on cold mornings.
 
2012-04-30 02:44:12 AM

Gyrfalcon: You may never have lived in the desert or mountains. Wind can kill you late & early mornings.


If you're an amateur.

/love, love, love the desert
 
2012-04-30 02:47:23 AM
Oh FFS...

Can this religion just die a kindly death now?
 
2012-04-30 02:47:40 AM
First the whargarbl about turbines killing birds, now that that has been definitively disproved this starts up.
Coincidence? I think not.
 
2012-04-30 02:50:23 AM
Uh - Wind farms... don't make wind.

WTF?

What kind of retarded logic reasoning is this?!
 
2012-04-30 02:52:34 AM
If all the humans died tomorrow would the earth continue to warm?
 
2012-04-30 02:56:44 AM

destrip: ARGH! It's phenomenon in the singular. Who's Discovery hiring for copy editors these days?


Texas wind farms produce more than 10,000 megawatts of electricity, more than double the capacity of the nearest state, Iowa, and enough to power three million average American homes, according to the American Wine Energy Association.
 
2012-04-30 02:56:47 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Keizer_Ghidorah
So, no matter what type of energy we try to use, we're going to destroy the planet regardless.

we *could* get everyone to ride a bike to work, but no. that would fix too many problems. it's not the profit driven american way.


You're aware that not everyone lives in a city right? And that the economy is shiat and people take jobs where they can get them... and, well, mainly not every person lives in/can afford to live in a goddamned city.

Seriously, I'm all for doing everything we can to improve the environment. I drive the most fuel efficient car that I can afford, I shop local, and my only regular long-distance commute is to work and back. People like you are not helping anything with suggestions that only apply to you or your immediate surroundings.

If you want people to think globally, you may actually have to come halfway and realize that not everyone has the same options on how to go about that as you instead of implying that it's some great evil that we all don't live a reasonable bike ride away from our jobs like you apparently do.
 
2012-04-30 02:57:21 AM
Well, that explains why the Central Valley in California directly east of San Francisco, Oakland, etc. always seems to miss most of the rainfall that hits the Sacramento region. The Diablo Mountain range around the Altamont Pass is covered with windmills.
 
2012-04-30 02:59:21 AM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The warming could hurt local farmers, who have already suffered through a killer drought over the past few years

Yeah, any farmer with a windmill on his land is not hurting, they are profiting far more from the windmill than any greenie would care to know
 
2012-04-30 03:06:32 AM

Snargi: Well, that explains why the Central Valley in California directly east of San Francisco, Oakland, etc. always seems to miss most of the rainfall that hits the Sacramento region. The Diablo Mountain range around the Altamont Pass is covered with windmills.


Or it could be something else entirely, like something realistic.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-04-30 03:07:18 AM

edMinton: If all the humans died tomorrow would the earth continue to warm?


Do the gases we have released into the atmosphere instantly disappear too?
 
2012-04-30 03:07:31 AM

jabelar: I think there is actually an issue with local climate and wind farms. I guess if they are positioned well away from an habitation, agriculture or national park it is okay but I certainly wouldn't want a wind farm on the hills around my house.


The long dreaded turbines went up surrounding my inlaws' house back in the fall. While I don't really think they've had an effect on the climate/weather (hard to tell this winter though), at 400+ feet tall including blade, they're monstrous. On days like today, which had winds maybe 15-20 mph, you know that sound when there's a commercial plane flying high overhead and you don't really notice it at first? Take that, make it ~20% louder, then make it go in a 1...2...3... rhythm. "Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh". All. Damn. Day. Long. Mind you they're a good 2000 feet or more from their house up on the ridges, too, so the whole argument about placing them farther away really doesn't help that much.

They're not quite as bad as I thought they would be, but they're still damn annoying, ugly, and I wish they had shoved their pet project through somewhere else. No one in the town gets a lower power bill for it, and iirc a couple of people (one I know for sure) who are leasing land to the company were on the town council. Also the town was stupid, in my opinion, and took a lump 'payment in lieu of taxes' rather than taxing the energy produced annually till the 20 year permit is up.

Nothing like screwing your neighbors for an extra $1500/month per turbine and one time payment into the school district...
 
2012-04-30 03:08:48 AM

Mr. Fuzzypaws: At least they have those windmills to keep them cool.


Morbo says "Windmills do not work that way!!"
 
2012-04-30 03:13:09 AM

redly1: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The warming could hurt local farmers, who have already suffered through a killer drought over the past few years
Yeah, any farmer with a windmill on his land is not hurting, they are profiting far more from the windmill than any greenie would care to know


That's assuming they have the turbines on their land, and not just on the edge of their neighbor's property. My inlaw's place is surrounded by them, all very close to the property lines, but all on other people's land. Wish they'd had the foresight to buy the hilltops back in the day.
 
2012-04-30 03:35:59 AM

edmo: Ah, the proverbial two edged sword.

The nutjobs who complain about wasteful green energy spending can now attack wind farms as harmful to the planet. The problem is they'll have to admit global warming is more than a theory - it's real. But since they know global warming is a crock, they know this study is more liberal bullshiat. But the wind farms will still be there.

I'm sure it sucks to be unable to compromise.


You obviously underestimate the cognitive dissonance of republicans. They will have no problem blaming wind farms and other green tech for global warming while vehemently opposing any data saying greenhouse gasses are to blame, or warming even exists for that matter.
 
2012-04-30 03:48:54 AM
 
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