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(Some Guy)   News: Frustration with government leads to secession talk. Fark: The Upper Peninsula seceding from Michigan   (miningjournal.net ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, Michigan, tax laws, public comment, Commissioner Michael Quayle, local governments  
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8017 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2012 at 6:44 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-29 10:45:07 PM  

Forty-Two: dennysgod: It's obvious you're not from Michigan otherwise you'd know that south central (just south of Lansing) is the "Alabama" of Michigan.

I love that map. My dad is from the "Dutch People" area, and my mom is from the "Bible Belt"--though, in all honesty, I don't see much of a cultural difference between the two.

/They got better; they left Michigan.
//My cool, science-loving aunt and uncle moved from the Bible Belt to the UP. Also a good move.


Heh i'm from the crossroads of "Dutch People" & "Bible Belt". Ultra Conservative Dutch Reformed. I remember we had one church for every hundred people in the town. It took till the 2000's to be able to watch MTV in town.They even tried to ban Halloween once. And no I really do not miss the place. (the town...i do miss Michigan)
 
2012-04-29 10:46:02 PM  

cryinoutloud: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Meh, they are welcome to go. The landscape looks like Mars and the only point of interest is Tahquamenon Falls, unless you really, really like copper and fish.
We'll keep the fudge, thanks.

Wut.

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 440x320]

[lh6.googleusercontent.com image 440x300]

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 440x300]


Yeah, that's very scrubby looking compared to the Lower Peninsula. Apart from the cities, Lower Michigan looks like one giant golf green with some sand and water traps around the edges.
 
2012-04-29 10:59:24 PM  
Dere's a rebel group from Soumi
Dey've got a master plan
To blow up da mighty Mackinac and take a rebel stand
Secede from da union, call dis place Yooperland
Dey'll give us lots of raha, we'll be rich as oil sheiks
Cuz dey won't want da Russians puttin missiles in Rawdric.

Dear Mr Governor
You'd better turn us loose
We asked you for some rest stops
Instead you sent us moose
The honeymoon is over
The declaration's written
We'll take what's above the bridge
And you can keep the mitten.
/from Da Yoopers. Obviously :)

I'd ignore this talk, nothing ever comes of it.
 
2012-04-29 11:00:57 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: cryinoutloud: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Meh, they are welcome to go. The landscape looks like Mars and the only point of interest is Tahquamenon Falls, unless you really, really like copper and fish.
We'll keep the fudge, thanks.

Wut.

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 440x320]

[lh6.googleusercontent.com image 440x300]

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 440x300]

Yeah, that's very scrubby looking compared to the Lower Peninsula. Apart from the cities, Lower Michigan looks like one giant golf green with some sand and water traps around the edges.


Except for all the forests, lakes and rivers that is. West and Northern Michigan are full of them...
 
2012-04-29 11:09:37 PM  

dennysgod:

It's obvious you're not from Michigan otherwise you'd know that south central (just south of Lansing) is the "Alabama" of Michigan.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x564]


As somebody born and raised in MI (and now thankfully lives in CO), I can agree with this statement and the disturbingly accurate chart provided.

/Lived a bit north of Ann Arbor
//The only way I'd live in MI again is if I could get a really good job
///That paid me 7 figures even after taxes
////And even then I'd try and see if I could telecommute from CO
 
2012-04-29 11:14:41 PM  

theorellior: 50 equal-population states.

[uploads.neatorama.com image 640x377]


"Missouri"

lol
 
2012-04-29 11:14:55 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Yeah, that's very scrubby looking compared to the Lower Peninsula. Apart from the cities, Lower Michigan looks like one giant golf green with some sand and water traps around the edges.


I live in Montana. It looks like the Garden of Eden to me.
 
2012-04-29 11:19:44 PM  
As someone who spent my teens in the UP, ugh...don't let the door hit you where god split ya, yoopers.

My parents still live up there, and it's like teabagger central where they live. Albeit with slightly slimmer people on their government-issued Lil'Rascals,..always gripping about social security & medicare and the "millions" they put into it with their barely-above minimum wage jobs (when they bothered to work, of course.)
 
2012-04-29 11:31:59 PM  
RadicalArcher : " ////And even then I'd try and see if I could telecommute from CO"

Weird. I know a guy here in MI that telecommutes TO Colorado.
Is he crazy? I don't know. But his wife has a rack rivalling the Grand Tetons, so he may not be missing much out west. :)

/nice curves below too
//my bunk...i think I'll be in it
 
2012-04-29 11:37:54 PM  
U.S. Congress: "the land in the Upper Peninsula was described in a federal report as a "sterile region on the shores of Lake Superior destined by soil and climate to remain forever a wilderness."

Ayup ,,, sounds about right to me.
 
2012-04-29 11:48:25 PM  

Desquamation: slayer199: We fought a war with Ohio over Toledo (why anyone wanted Toledo, I can't imagine). The U.P. was our consolation prize. It worked out well considering the mines in the U.P.

As for succession...not going to happen. I can't imagine the rest of the state going along with it.

The succession talk usually stops when it's pointed out for the yoopers that we trolls are the ones who pay for everything.


Yep. If they became their own state, they only road that wouldn't become severely rutted would be I-75, because it's a federal highway. The roads in the rest of the state would revert back to gravel.

Their entire tax base wouldn't cover upkeep on their half of the Mackinac Bridge.
 
2012-04-29 11:50:13 PM  
Secessionists you say. Dig up Zombie Sherman.
 
2012-04-30 12:07:37 AM  

Yamaneko2: namatad: AcademGreen: Atricle IV Sec 3 of the US Constitution:

 New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

well the AWESOME part is that the GOP in congress will be TOTALLY supportive of any and all new states. right?
RIGHT??
Because states' rights are so important?!!@ LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Perhaps. Michigan is a narrowly Democratic state. The UP is strongly Democratic. Split the UP from the rest of the state, then instead of two Democratic senators as the norm, there will be two Democrats from the UP and two Republicans from the Lower Peninsula. The GOP would also gain the majority of electoral votes from present-day Michigan, where now it does not.


Your understanding of party alignments is outdated. Although Stupak, the former representative from the First District, was a Democrat, he had a lot of Blue Dog in him and played footsie with The Family, and the seat went Republican after he retired.

Today, you'd see Michigan lose a GOP representative to "Superior," even if it took until reapportionment to become effective. I'd predict that the GOP would gain two Senate seats from "Superior," but I wouldn't bet on the balance tipping in Lower Michigan far enough to guarantee safe Senate seats for either party after Levin retires.

The only reason to admit "Superior" would be to balance Puerto Rico. (Frankly, I think Puerto Rico has a far healthier economy than a "Superior" would, assuming that Lower Michigan takes back its prisoners after the split. But I digress)
 
2012-04-30 12:08:56 AM  
Sounds fine to me. The US needs some freshening up anyways.
 
2012-04-30 12:15:02 AM  

volodya: Lets cut a better deal.......


[www.enchantedlearning.com image 494x290]


I doubt Canada would take them.
 
2012-04-30 12:16:33 AM  

dennysgod: robbrie: Good riddance!!! The UP is Alabama, only with a lot more snow.

/metro Detroiter
//not born here
///been to the UP exactly once and that was for a work conference

It's obvious you're not from Michigan otherwise you'd know that south central (just south of Lansing) is the "Alabama" of Michigan.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x564]


wtf is a yooper?
 
2012-04-30 12:20:38 AM  
don't make me live amongst the nebraskans. please?
 
2012-04-30 12:20:43 AM  
LibertyHiller:
The only reason to admit "Superior" would be to balance Puerto Rico. (Frankly, I think Puerto Rico has a far healthier economy than a "Superior" would, assuming that Lower Michigan takes back its prisoners after the split. But I digress)


If I was gonna split a state to balance Puerto Rico and make us 52 states it would be California. The halves would each be like in the top 5 biggest states if it was split fairly evenly.
 
2012-04-30 12:20:51 AM  

Bucky Katt: dennysgod: robbrie:
wtf is a yooper?


LMGTFY.
 
2012-04-30 12:26:05 AM  

Bucky Katt: wtf is a yooper?


They're just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
 
2012-04-30 12:27:57 AM  
Yay michigan thread!
 
2012-04-30 12:34:23 AM  
This was constantly coming up in the '70s and '80s when I lived in the U.P. Yeah anyone back then knew it was never going to happen. I can't imagine anything has changed. Sometimes they want part of Wisconsin to go with them and sometimes the northern part of the L.P.

upload.wikimedia.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_%28proposed_U.S._state%29
 
2012-04-30 01:01:10 AM  

dennysgod: robbrie: Good riddance!!! The UP is Alabama, only with a lot more snow.

/metro Detroiter
//not born here
///been to the UP exactly once and that was for a work conference

It's obvious you're not from Michigan otherwise you'd know that south central (just south of Lansing) is the "Alabama" of Michigan.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x564]


You can tell that was made at Western because they know where Central is and think Ann Arbor/Ypsi is "Wal-mart fans".
 
2012-04-30 01:10:36 AM  

fanbladesaresharp: goatleggedfellow: Gyrfalcon: Weaver95: now that's an interesting question...we already know that a state cannot leave the Union. the civil war settled that question for us. But can a state 'split off' into another state?

...

Sparsley? Don't know about that, depending on where the division is. Some want San Francisco area to be part of the north, all the way down to Fresno, some don't. But if population is an issue, look how many people live in the Dakotas, Wyoming and Alaska and they're states. They have counties larger than some eastern states.


The "Jefferson" area is mostly wilderness. No model of it includes the Bay Area. It would be the least populous state and be severely over-represented even with 1 representative (more so than Wyoming). It would also be a solid red state with 2 GOP senators.

There are a lot of states like the ones you mentioned. "Jefferson" would be the worst by far. It already bugs me that a lot of the low-population states have so much sway in the Senate. They tend to be red states and also "taker" states, meaning they get more federal dollars than they pay in. It's a beautiful irony that, through federal taxes, blue state money is socialistically redistributed to red states.
 
2012-04-30 01:38:56 AM  

Canton: slayer199: We fought a war with Ohio over Toledo (why anyone wanted Toledo, I can't imagine). The U.P. was our consolation prize. It worked out well considering the mines in the U.P.

As for succession...not going to happen. I can't imagine the rest of the state going along with it.

Ahh, yes, the Toledo War, in which two militias pretty much failed to find each other in the swampy Toledo Strip. If I remember my history correctly, one guy got stabbed in a bar brawl. That was about as violent as the war got.

If only all wars worked out that way.


Did you just paraphrase the Ankh-Morpork Civil War or did this really happen.
 
2012-04-30 05:29:30 AM  

NuttierThanEver: No infrastructure, dwindling population, no jobs on the horizon, good luck with that.
Sincerely,
The trolls that live under the bridge
Aka fudgies


My thoughts too. That is not exactly a self sustaining group of people up there. They would have to organize their own welfare program. Maybe they would declare themselves all government employees and with their thinking would fix their economy. I am going up there next week, maybe I can hassle a few about it.
 
2012-04-30 05:48:08 AM  
It would reduce Michigan's welfare rolls if the Yoopers split off.
 
2012-04-30 05:59:50 AM  

Weaver95: now that's an interesting question...we already know that a state cannot leave the Union. the civil war settled that question for us. But can a state 'split off' into another state?

hmm.


Yes, Texas can

Texas, in an codicli agreed upon admittance into the US, was allowed to split into 5 seperate states, if so chooses.

And, West Virginia did just that during the Civil War

Cannot blame the UP for leaving the rest of the state. Why attach yourself to an economic shiathole which has Detroit acting as its colon
 
2012-04-30 07:17:46 AM  
So basically if the demographics of the region that wants to become a state is largely Democrat, then all Republicans in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing. If the demographics are Republican, then the Democrats in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing.

So essentially in our broken Legislative Branch, it would be impossible for a state to split unless it was completely swing-state with no overwhelming lean towards either side of the aisle.
 
db2
2012-04-30 07:26:41 AM  
I think most of Michigan wants to secede from Lansing and Detroit, actually.
 
2012-04-30 08:35:14 AM  

dougpr: So basically if the demographics of the region that wants to become a state is largely Democrat, then all Republicans in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing. If the demographics are Republican, then the Democrats in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing.

So essentially in our broken Legislative Branch, it would be impossible for a state to split unless it was completely swing-state with no overwhelming lean towards either side of the aisle.


You're an idiot. It's the ________ who are the obstructionists in Congress, not the ______.
 
2012-04-30 12:36:57 PM  

slayer199: We fought a war with Ohio over Toledo (why anyone wanted Toledo, I can't imagine). The U.P. was our consolation prize. It worked out well considering the mines in the U.P.

As for succession...not going to happen. I can't imagine the rest of the state going along with it.


Yeah Ohio Gave Michigan the UP, thuogh it was "techincally" part of the Wisconsin territory at the time. That is why we hate your stupid picture pages nut mascot and your cheating, tampering team.
/Also Illinois stole Chicago
// Ties a hunk of onion cheese to my belt, shakes fist at cloud
 
2012-04-30 12:42:48 PM  

RadicalArcher: dennysgod:

It's obvious you're not from Michigan otherwise you'd know that south central (just south of Lansing) is the "Alabama" of Michigan.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x564]

As somebody born and raised in MI (and now thankfully lives in CO), I can agree with this statement and the disturbingly accurate chart provided.

/Lived a bit north of Ann Arbor
//The only way I'd live in MI again is if I could get a really good job
///That paid me 7 figures even after taxes
////And even then I'd try and see if I could telecommute from CO


*shrug* I moved to the UP after 10+ years in Colorado. Have a good job. Six figures. Work from home. Could live/work anywhere in the country, I can't think of anyplace better than the UP.
 
2012-04-30 01:34:58 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Yeah, seriously. They've been going on about this for so damn long, and nothing EVER happens.


Yeahbut... If all 3 of them ever agree on anything, then look out!
 
2012-04-30 01:48:36 PM  

Aloy: I wish NY would do this, so we could lose that festering pustule that is NYC.


My thoughts exactly.

Hey, Albany, there's more to the state than NYC! How about thinking about us for a change?
 
2012-04-30 02:23:39 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Weaver95: now that's an interesting question...we already know that a state cannot leave the Union. the civil war settled that question for us. But can a state 'split off' into another state?

hmm.

Yes, Texas can

Texas, in an codicli agreed upon admittance into the US, was allowed to split into 5 seperate states, if so chooses.

And, West Virginia did just that during the Civil War

Cannot blame the UP for leaving the rest of the state. Why attach yourself to an economic shiathole which has Detroit acting as its colon


Because the economic output of your entire "state" would be negative if separated out? Mining and timber aren't the powerhouses they once were...
 
2012-04-30 02:25:03 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Meh, they are welcome to go. The landscape looks like Mars and the only point of interest is Tahquamenon Falls, unless you really, really like copper and fish.

We'll keep the fudge, thanks.


Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore

Porcupine Mountains ("Porkies")

Sylvania Wilderness

LOL, wut?
 
2012-04-30 02:30:09 PM  

NuttierThanEver: No infrastructure, dwindling population, no jobs on the horizon, good luck with that.
Sincerely,
The trolls that live under the bridge
Aka fudgies


As a yooper with an engineering job in the aerospace industry, I'm getting a kick out of this comment.
 
2012-04-30 04:42:36 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Meh, they are welcome to go. The landscape looks like Mars and the only point of interest is Tahquamenon Falls, unless you really, really like copper and fish.

We'll keep the fudge, thanks.


www.superiorlakeshoreproperty.com

Please stay down there.
 
2012-04-30 06:00:15 PM  

dougpr: So basically if the demographics of the region that wants to become a state is largely Democrat, then all Republicans in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing. If the demographics are Republican, then the Democrats in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing.

So essentially in our broken Legislative Branch, it would be impossible for a state to split unless it was completely swing-state with no overwhelming lean towards either side of the aisle.


The trick is to do it two at a time--one new state with a largely Democratic demographic, and another with a largely Republican one. Most of the realistic statehood-admission plans are based on this.
 
2012-04-30 06:19:20 PM  
If you're into motorcycling, there are some spectacular routes up here in the U.P. that offer beautiful scenery, a variety of options for short, medium, and long rides, great local bars/restaurants to visit along the way and few (but friendly) people to share the road with.

If you're into snowmobiling, there are some great trails, especially in the NW. Some trails are 8 sleds wide at parts. In my neck of the woods, you can get pretty much anywhere via snowmobile trail. Hell, I've taken my sled to work a few times.

If you're into camping, well, then you've probably already visited, or at least heard of the U.P. If you haven't, then see my previous post with some links to some of the most awesome camping you can find in the midwest. Also noteworthy, but missing from my post, is Isle Royale. It's not connected to the U.P., but 2/3 boat routes come in/out of the U.P.

If you're into skiing, we have some decent skiing as far as midwest skiing goes. Nothing like the Rockies, but that's pretty obvious. I can see one ski hill from my front yard. Hard to beat that.

If you're into hockey, there are 5 public rinks just in my neighborhood alone. BYO stick.

But if you're from Chicago, stay home. F.I.B.s aren't welcome here.

/I don't care about the tourism industry, I just like to see people enjoy what's out there
//just kidding about the Illinois bastards.
///eh
 
2012-04-30 06:19:32 PM  

dougpr: So basically if the demographics of the region that wants to become a state is largely Democrat, then all Republicans in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing. If the demographics are Republican, then the Democrats in Congress will prevent the statehood request from passing.


You just summed up why DC keeps getting farked over by Congress.
 
2012-04-30 06:21:18 PM  

Ionessa: Aloy: I wish NY would do this, so we could lose that festering pustule that is NYC.

My thoughts exactly.

Hey, Albany, there's more to the state than NYC! How about thinking about us for a change?


You know a good chunk of your state's tax base would just evaporate if you did that right?

You'd just be a northern version of PA without Metro NYC.

/Take from that what you will
 
2012-04-30 07:11:36 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Texas has it as part of their constitution that they can split into 5 separate states. I see no reason why the loser half of a state can't split off to go be fat somewhere else.


I always figured the loser half of Michigan was the part with Detroit in it.
 
2012-04-30 09:47:53 PM  
As a yooper I would like to support his idea but not sure if it would work. Lower Michigan does treat us pretty badly when it comes to funding, though we would have difficulty supporting ourselves as a lone state. We have a small population and a large portion of the jobs up and the biggest city up here (Marquette) Is going to be hurting once the mines finally close in a couple decades. We need more job opportunities very badly right now.
 
2012-04-30 11:21:38 PM  
Maybe Canda wants them..
 
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