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(Tampa Bay Online)   HOA goes insane, evicts tenants from their homes, then rents out same houses it doesn't even own   (www2.tbo.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, HOA, homeowners associations, subprime mortgage crisis, Pasco County Sheriff's Office, Bridgewater, connectedness, Pasco County, Joanne McCarn  
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30163 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2012 at 7:57 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2012-04-29 04:06:25 PM  
But there are no legal grounds, Solomon said, for the association to change locks and move in another tenant

I don't think those people care about the law. sounds like someone lost big in the housing crunch and is playing hard ball to get out of whatever fiscal hole they dug for themselves.
 
2012-04-29 04:23:15 PM  
In 2010, Spector was unapologetic about how the association is dealing with the challenge.

"I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune.


Translation: I bought the "houses never decrease in value" schtick hook, line, and sinker, and am now butthurt that I overpaid by such a large amount for my house which is now completely under water, and I am going to take my anger out on those who didn't fall for this trap and are therefore paying much less.
 
2012-04-29 04:23:20 PM  

Weaver95: But there are no legal grounds, Solomon said, for the association to change locks and move in another tenant

I don't think those people care about the law. sounds like someone lost big in the housing crunch and is playing hard ball to get out of whatever fiscal hole they dug for themselves.


Sounds more like someone is acting out their dictator fantasies.
 
2012-04-29 04:24:11 PM  
Also, just wait when it comes out that he's been stealing from the HOA.

Just watch. You know he's doing it.
 
2012-04-29 04:34:06 PM  
In 2010, Spector was unapologetic about how the association is dealing with the challenge.

"I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune. "We have people who haven't paid a payment in four years, and they want us to let them out of their bad debt. That's not going to happen."



I had to actually go back and read that bit again. the anger, rage and bitterness from just that one statement alone tells you all you need to know about what's going on here.
 
2012-04-29 04:54:37 PM  
Was such a possibility in the contract? Then they should be upheld in court.


/same with mortgages
 
2012-04-29 05:00:06 PM  
How can the HOA kick the current owner's tenant out of their house and put in their own tenant if they don't legally own the house? Why isn't the current homeowner ripping the HOA a new asshole in court? If I lived in that HOA, I'd be figuring out a way to disband the HOA or replace the board members. Also, I'd request a full auditing of the books. You can smell the corruption in this HOA.

Weaver95: In 2010, Spector was unapologetic about how the association is dealing with the challenge.

"I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune. "We have people who haven't paid a payment in four years, and they want us to let them out of their bad debt. That's not going to happen."

I had to actually go back and read that bit again. the anger, rage and bitterness from just that one statement alone tells you all you need to know about what's going on here.


This also tells you how the HOA feels about those who are buying post-bubble:

In one case, a prospective buyer was told two days before closing that he had to pay $14,000 in fees for cosmetic work or the association would quash the sale. The buyer, who said he wanted to do the repairs himself, walked away from the sale.

If the seller's HOA told me 2 days before closing I would have to cough up $14,000 additional, I'd do exactly as this buyer did and tell them to go pound sand. If the HOA is doing this to prospective buyers, you know how they treat current owners.

/Doesn't live in a HOA neighborhood
 
2012-04-29 05:04:13 PM  
That trebuchet doesn't seem like such a bad idea now, wouldn't you say?
 
2012-04-29 05:04:48 PM  
That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government! Choose your political leaders from the choices offered by the Free Market! And if you don't like it, just abandon your home and underwater mortgage and move under a bridge 'cause you aren't renting anywhere with what the bankruptcy did to your credit rating.
 
2012-04-29 05:11:15 PM  

dustman81: If the seller's HOA told me 2 days before closing I would have to cough up $14,000 additional, I'd do exactly as this buyer did and tell them to go pound sand. If the HOA is doing this to prospective buyers, you know how they treat current owners.


this sounds like an HOA run like the mafia. if you aren't careful that's exactly what can happen to your neighborhood. some HOA's are run by petty tyrants but most just pay the bills, make sure the snow gets shoveled off during winter and hold bake sales and organize golf outtings on the weekends.

in THIS case tho, i'd seriously wonder if the idiots running the show were stealing money from the association in order to cover their losses. I can't think of any other reason for an HOA to drive off potential buyers...well, other than just being a pit of insane rage of course, which is kinda what the association president sounds like.

/Doesn't live in a HOA neighborhood

I do and the entire time i've been there they pestered me exactly one time...and that had to do with Dad smoking in a breezeway when he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
 
2012-04-29 05:42:27 PM  

dustman81: Why isn't the current homeowner ripping the HOA a new asshole in court?


It's Florida. Court is probably backing the HOA.
 
2012-04-29 05:45:05 PM  

GAT_00: dustman81: Why isn't the current homeowner ripping the HOA a new asshole in court?

It's Florida. Court is probably backing the HOA.


And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...
 
2012-04-29 05:59:35 PM  
I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.
 
2012-04-29 06:03:38 PM  

Weaver95: GAT_00: dustman81: Why isn't the current homeowner ripping the HOA a new asshole in court?

It's Florida. Court is probably backing the HOA.

And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...


Hey, it's a free market!
 
2012-04-29 06:16:33 PM  

GAT_00: Weaver95: GAT_00: dustman81: Why isn't the current homeowner ripping the HOA a new asshole in court?

It's Florida. Court is probably backing the HOA.

And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...

Hey, it's a free market!


And it can go right ahead with it's bad self. any HOA that's run by a guy who thinks he's gotta stick to people who DIDN'T get shafted by the housing market implosion just ain't gonna be a happy place to live.
 
2012-04-29 06:21:30 PM  
You know, I try to feel sorry for people who buy a house in an HOA, but I can't.
They know what they're getting into. The stories have been told for over a decade now.
But they buy into the HOA because they want to control 'those people'. Those people being anyone other than themselves.

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


All it takes is one or two people moving into your neighborhood to change that.
Someone with the desire to be dictator for the neighborhood and get a couple people on board to show up and vote and the HOA meetings and you'll be singing a different tune.
 
2012-04-29 06:26:02 PM  
If an HOA was to go insane we knew it would happen in Florida. Everyone there is already insane anyway right?
 
2012-04-29 06:37:23 PM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


It's all about some people being complete assholes.
your front yard is a shiat hole and is destroying the neighborhood? fine.
but take your house???? farkem

the rules really are insane. shudder.
This could be fun, find a house in HOA, talk about making an offer, get the report from the HOA and walk away laughing
 
2012-04-29 06:43:35 PM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL
 
2012-04-29 06:55:21 PM  
Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law
 
2012-04-29 07:06:51 PM  
When does the shooting start?
 
2012-04-29 07:11:15 PM  
Holy shiat. What kind of petty, vindictive, egomaniacal tin-pot dictator wannabe is this guy? And why is he still running things? I would assume he'd have been strung up on a decorative raffia noose from (only) an oak tree no more than 18" above the ground, as measured from the grass which must be no more than 2" in length, and not visible from the street.
 
2012-04-29 07:16:20 PM  

cman: powers


Why? Simply because nobody has hired a lawyer to go after them. In our system, you can pretty much anything on the civil size until someone spends the money to stop you. As long as you haven't broken a law, the police can't do anything.
 
2012-04-29 07:22:48 PM  

cman: Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law


You have seen what's happened in this country since 9-11, right?
 
2012-04-29 07:39:39 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: cman: Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law

You have seen what's happened in this country since 9-11, right?



Nothing to do with 9-11.

It has all to do with people worrying about their 'property values' and how 'other people' will drive them down.
Notice how it's never their fault, it's always a vindictive HOA. Notice how few of them cared when it was happening to their neighbors house.
Because those people were driving down the value of their home. Like if farking matters.
People need to stop treating a house like an investment. It's not.
It's a home you live in. I don't give a fark if my house value is increasing daily. If it's not a place I enjoy living in and doing things in, I don't want to live there.

But because people have their perverted view of what suburban living should be, how they should be able to dictate what others do in their home, HOAs run rampant. People put up with because of the stupid fear of someone moving in and turning one house into a crack den. Now suddenly they can't sell their house at all. All because of that one person.

The problem with HOAs isn't HOAs. It's people.
 
2012-04-29 07:50:58 PM  
I for one welcome our new HOA overlords.
 
2012-04-29 08:04:45 PM  
No HOA for me!

you-are-here.com

'Fort building' as a child is now a survival skill.
 
2012-04-29 08:04:55 PM  
Headline is confusing. 'HOA goes insane.' That would infer that at one point they were 'sane.'
 
2012-04-29 08:04:59 PM  
It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs
 
2012-04-29 08:05:40 PM  
This would never happen in a state with a "make my day" law, but it'd be pretty awesome if somebody tried.
 
2012-04-29 08:06:18 PM  
If people are so worried about a crack den in their neighborhood, shouldn't they call the farking cops?

I would never live anywhere with an HOA. Ever. And this is a prime example why.
 
2012-04-29 08:06:24 PM  
That's fine. I will of course take the private law into my own hands as well and actually murder several people on the HOA or their families and burn down said houses with or without people currently residing in them.

Not kidding. There will be blood.
 
2012-04-29 08:08:30 PM  
I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.
 
2012-04-29 08:09:21 PM  
A dude like that has to have some depraved porn, or something, on his computer.

shiat, just break in one day, steal it, and post it all over the internet.
 
2012-04-29 08:12:00 PM  
It's Florida.

1. Homeowner hangs out around his (former) house until someone complains.
2. Tin-pot dictator shows up to run them off.
3. Homeowner stands his ground.
4. Profit.
 
2012-04-29 08:14:15 PM  

RobertBruce: Was such a possibility in the contract? Then they should be upheld in court.


There is an expectation of reasonable obligations in a contract. This, there is reasonable to assume the HOA has any ability to evict nor rent the property. HOAs are able to lien a property, call code enforcement, and in general be busybodies, but nothing else.
 
2012-04-29 08:15:37 PM  
Not a surprising article. HOA people are nuts.

In the town I'm in, the HOA folks are among the most politically active, even though they're a minority of the population. For a lot of citizen involved committees, no one shows up but the HOA folks. So guess who controls the zoning commission and code enforcement?

I've been going to watch commission meetings lately, to prep for changing a few things next time elections happen... it's a cross between entertaining and terrifying how those people think.
 
2012-04-29 08:16:28 PM  
Seriously, chain saw the HOA chief's head off.
 
2012-04-29 08:16:38 PM  

namatad: The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.


There are middle grounds. For example, locally-designated historic districts are usually overseen by a government commission. The commission can make sure you paint your house, keep it looking nice, prevent changes that destroy the character of the neighborhood, etc. But because it's a government commission, they're accountable to your rights in a way that HOAs just aren't. They can't stop you from exercising your freedom of speech, for example, and because it's a government commission, the courts give them much less leeway.

/I know, I know Fark Independents, more government is never the answer
 
2012-04-29 08:16:46 PM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


That's exactly how an HOA is supposed to work. Occasionally, however, an HOA gets take over by a power hungry madman (or woman) who can't get laid so is going to make everyone else's life miserable.
 
2012-04-29 08:16:59 PM  
If I understand the article correctly, the HOA fees weren't being paid, and the HOA had a lien to exercise in such a case. It may even be that an arrangement was struck whereby the HOA was also paying the mortgage in anticipating of getting rent from the occupant, but was not being paid any rent at all.

It's not the best-written article.
 
2012-04-29 08:18:26 PM  
I know how to handle this problem - we'll adopt traditional solutions to power mad pocket dictators.

historicromance.files.wordpress.com

/Also, the insane thing here was buying a house with a HOA in the first place.
 
2012-04-29 08:19:29 PM  
All things considered, maybe this was the intent of Florida's "stand your ground law".

You want my house? Come get it motherfarker.

www.tactical-life.com
 
2012-04-29 08:19:38 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs


I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.
 
2012-04-29 08:21:43 PM  
Mark sounds like another victim of little man syndrome. Next thing you know, this guy is going to change his name to Mark M. Spector and run around creating frivolous lawsuits.
 
2012-04-29 08:21:53 PM  
Never move somewhere with an HOA. At least that's what I have learned from Fark. Even if you have a wife or husband who you think can take over the board remember that like in the Game of Thrones, losing has a price.
 
2012-04-29 08:25:42 PM  
And this is where I have a problem:

The association had demanded that the tenant stop paying rent to McCarn and pay it instead.

So, the legal rights to the house are hers but the HOA is stepping in to collect? Will they also be paying the mortgage, HOA and tax fees?

/Already know the answer is no.
 
2012-04-29 08:26:01 PM  

Bunnyhat: You know, I try to feel sorry for people who buy a house in an HOA, but I can't.
They know what they're getting into. The stories have been told for over a decade now.


It's getting to the point that not living under HOAs is as practical as finding a telecom without a binding arbitration clause.
 
2012-04-29 08:27:02 PM  
1) Choose lame-ass suburban home in a lame-ass subdivision with an HOA
2) Willingly sign the HOA's contract
3) Break the contract cuz you're a rebel! not a lame-ass suburban dork! by golly!
4) Complain when they remind you of the contract you signed
 
2012-04-29 08:27:06 PM  
You sign a deal with the devil and then don't like the terms later.
 
2012-04-29 08:28:20 PM  
HOAs seem like a way to privatize government services into the hands of residents. We see what the ideology of privatization leads to.
 
2012-04-29 08:29:55 PM  
Gotta pay for that swim/tennis complex somehow.
 
2012-04-29 08:30:05 PM  

penthesilea: I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.


I think most people would rather just be evicted from their home, as terrible as that is, rather than in addition to it facing charges ranging from arson up to first-degree murder if the fire spreads or if a firefighter or someone else gets killed.

Ashtrey: Never move somewhere with an HOA. At least that's what I have learned from Fark. Even if you have a wife or husband who you think can take over the board remember that like in the Game of Thrones, losing has a price.


True, this is valid for your typical single-family lots.

But in the case of condos, that's impossible. Who's going to pay to have the law mowed, or pay for bigger projects like roof repair/replacement, exterior repainting, etc?
 
2012-04-29 08:30:21 PM  

cman: Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law


Meh. There are plenty of HOAs that have CC&Rs which allow them to rent a property, especially gated condos. They can clean and maintain a vacant property, lien the title, and hold up a sale until they're paid. Not that unusual.
 
2012-04-29 08:30:25 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:
/I know, I know Fark Independents, more government is never the answer


I think it is interesting that the more conservative states have more HOA's. It makes me think conservative angst is a lot less about "freedom" and a lot more about class segregation. Here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts (as red states would have you believe), I could paint my house neon green and cover my yard with all of the banners, signs, and decorations I want. Bathtub Mary anyone?
 
2012-04-29 08:31:01 PM  
That HOA must be run by Dino Zaffina.
 
2012-04-29 08:31:14 PM  

DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government! Choose your political leaders from the choices offered by the Free Market! And if you don't like it, just abandon your home and underwater mortgage and move under a bridge 'cause you aren't renting anywhere with what the bankruptcy did to your credit rating.


For a doctor, you sure have some dumb thoughts.
 
2012-04-29 08:31:52 PM  
Buy it.
Homestead it.
Leave the dead HOA members on the curb.

100% legal!
 
2012-04-29 08:32:12 PM  
It's Florida. How can a HOA rent a cop survive evicting someone illegally?
 
2012-04-29 08:32:46 PM  

penthesilea: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.


Cuz nothing screams "I showed you" like going to prison for arson.
 
2012-04-29 08:33:24 PM  
1) Turn gas on
2) Rig light bulb to burn by removing glass
3) Install in dark entry
4) KABOOM!
5) Collect insurance money and move the fark away.
 
2012-04-29 08:33:47 PM  

namatad: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL


I'm one of those jerks who buy property to fix it and sell. I did not turn the place into a crack den first. The previous owners did not either though it was far from nice inside. So I'm a jerk for putting $20k+ into making it a livable house again. And I (and many others who do this) do much of the labor myself. Your're farking lucky jerks like us fix these houses. My first fix-n-flip goes on sale next week. Yea I'll make money but not killing. Jerk
 
2012-04-29 08:34:22 PM  
1) Turn gas on
2) Rig light bulb to burn by removing glass
3) Install in dark entry
4) HOA flips switch - KABOOM!
5) Collect insurance money and move the fark away.
 
2012-04-29 08:35:47 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:

But because it's a government commission, they're accountable to your rights in a way that HOAs just aren't. They can't stop you from exercising your freedom of speech, for example, and because it's a government commission, the courts give them much less leeway.


So very much this. I have experience with that in a non HOA situation. The biggest problem I have with my city government is that the pseudo-court administrative system allows them to bypass accountability. They've made it very hard to exercise eg. the right to an airing of grievances in court because they claim their "administrative hearings" ARE "courts". Except they're "informal" and don't follow things like rules of evidence or right to an appeal.

An HOA is like a child's model of a government without all the critical things like rights and due process.
 
2012-04-29 08:35:48 PM  

coco ebert: HOAs seem like a way to privatize government services into the hands of residents. We see what the ideology of privatization leads to.


its' not bad actually. I pay my condo fees, they leave me alone and someone else cuts the grass and shovels the snow. the fact that the HOA also owns the golf course and takes a cut of the revenue for maintenance fees helps out quite a bit.
 
2012-04-29 08:35:55 PM  

mikdeetx: 1) Turn gas on
2) Rig light bulb to burn by removing glass
3) Install in dark entry
4) HOA flips switch - KABOOM!
5) Collect insurance money and move the fark away.


6) 40 years to life of free room, board, and all the anal sex you can handle
 
2012-04-29 08:37:50 PM  

SDRR: penthesilea: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.

Cuz nothing screams "I showed you" like going to prison for arson.


Yeah, buy nobody could blame you for carelessly refinishing your cabinets with linseed oil.
 
2012-04-29 08:39:28 PM  

Corporate Self: mikdeetx: 1) Turn gas on
2) Rig light bulb to burn by removing glass
3) Install in dark entry
4) HOA flips switch - KABOOM!
5) Collect insurance money and move the fark away.

6) 40 years to life of free room, board, and all the anal sex you can handle


You're a brown noser I take it.
 
2012-04-29 08:40:59 PM  

GORDON: DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government! Choose your political leaders from the choices offered by the Free Market! And if you don't like it, just abandon your home and underwater mortgage and move under a bridge 'cause you aren't renting anywhere with what the bankruptcy did to your credit rating.

For a doctor, you sure have some dumb thoughts.


HOA's are in no way a conservative dream.

The last thing a conservative wants is MORE GOVERNMENT.

Think about it, an HOA is like the worst form of socialism imaginable. They can make decisions for 'the good of the community' that allow them to seize your property and throw you out of it. You dont really own your home in an HOA community, you are renting the right to use it from your neighbors who are legally allowed to gang up on you and force you out.

Idiocy.

The only thing worse is Historic Overlay Zoning. Our city is screwed right now because one neighborhood full of shiatty hundred year old tenement housing got historic status through the actions of about 4 people. Now we are in danger of losing our most important expressway exits into our business district because a new bridge cant exit traffic near that historic neighborhood because of federal law limiting how many homes you can demolish in historic areas. Trust me, the homes are crap, they are mostly falling off a hillside, are infested with bed bugs, and were never nice historic homes, just vernacular single story brick housing.

Community organizers should be run out of town on rails by anyone interested in a nice place to live.
 
2012-04-29 08:41:37 PM  

Honest Bender: That HOA must be run by Dino Zaffina.


Quick! Add his middle initial before he sues you!!!!
 
2012-04-29 08:41:43 PM  

jaytkay: 1) Choose lame-ass suburban home in a lame-ass subdivision with an HOA
2) Willingly sign the HOA's contract
3) Break the contract cuz you're a rebel! not a lame-ass suburban dork! by golly!
4) Complain when they remind you of the contract you signed


You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.
 
2012-04-29 08:42:16 PM  

coco ebert: HOAs seem like a way to privatize government services into the hands of residents. We see what the ideology of privatization leads to.


It isn't the privatization that's the problem, it's the fact that HOAs are much more like corporations than governments. Corporations exist specifically to carry out activities without any ensuing negative consequences personally affecting the individuals in control.

Government without accountability.
 
2012-04-29 08:42:49 PM  
And yet all of us that manage to pay HOA fees so we don't live next to farkwits somehow managed to pay our bills on time and rent/sublease with no problems. It's probably the guy. Not her at all. Out of the other 399 properties in the complex that aren't having any problems. I'm sure it's just him.
 
2012-04-29 08:42:57 PM  

Weaver95: coco ebert: HOAs seem like a way to privatize government services into the hands of residents. We see what the ideology of privatization leads to.

its' not bad actually. I pay my condo fees, they leave me alone and someone else cuts the grass and shovels the snow. the fact that the HOA also owns the golf course and takes a cut of the revenue for maintenance fees helps out quite a bit.


Condos are generally an OK place for an HOA to operate in since someone has to maintain the building and common areas. Neighborhoods of single family houses are where the clusterfark HOAs seem to be. Perhaps it's because the condo HOA already has plenty to keep them busy, while the neighborhood HOA gets bored and starts messing with people.
 
2012-04-29 08:44:19 PM  

Intoxoman: namatad: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL

I'm one of those jerks who buy property to fix it and sell. I did not turn the place into a crack den first. The previous owners did not either though it was far from nice inside. So I'm a jerk for putting $20k+ into making it a livable house again. And I (and many others who do this) do much of the labor myself. Your're farking lucky jerks like us fix these houses. My first fix-n-flip goes on sale next week. Yea I'll make money but not killing. Jerk


Property flippers move equity out of core neighborhoods. They are killing the 'sweat equity' effect that allowed homeowners of the last generation to buy cheap, renovate and eventually sell high. Every flipped property in my neighborhood is an embarrassment except the one they spent way too much money fixing up.

Good luck to you, but people just like you fed the housing bubble out west, you are not some sort of saint who is saving neighborhoods, get over yourself..
 
2012-04-29 08:45:19 PM  
My mother is in a place with a HOA. They do next to nothing, never respond to questions or requests for repair and milk her wallet bad. HOA can kiss my shiny metal ass.

/I need to get her out of there
//between HOA costs and property taxes
///NJ
 
2012-04-29 08:47:16 PM  

Weaver95: And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...


Except for my situation.
I just bought the house next door to me for 55,000.
Now I own a 2 house compound just minutes from the beach.

Sucks to be me I guess.
 
2012-04-29 08:47:19 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs


I've mean to ask. How does one keep the gasoline on the chain and keep oneself from being burn as you beat the person with a flaming chain?
 
2012-04-29 08:50:16 PM  
"This is not a foreclosed house," McCarn said. "This is still my house. It's unfair how much power the HOA has. It's so surreal to me."

So true. It's very unfair to sell a person a home without disclosing that it's in an HOA, and what the rules and bylaws of the HOA are. It's so unfair to be a home buyer and be expected to do basic research and due diligence on a property before buying it. And it's also unfair to buy an investment property and rent it out to deadbeat tenants and be expected to actually follow the deed restrictions of the community.
 
2012-04-29 08:51:04 PM  

Trolljegeren: SDRR: penthesilea: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.

Cuz nothing screams "I showed you" like going to prison for arson.

Yeah, buy nobody could blame you for carelessly refinishing your cabinets with linseed oil.


Dont use fire, use a concrete saw, just cut the house in half about 18 inches above the foundation. You are not doing anything illegal. Its simple a poorly considered DIY project. Dont forget the inside walls, cut those too. For good measure bump it with your truck a couple times.

There is a house in my neighborhood, owned by a slum lord, who is in trouble with the city. He is in trouble because he moved into the house and lived there without utilities for a year. He filled gallon jugs with urine and stores them in the house. Somehow there are HUNDREDS of jugs in the house. Thank god its several blocks away from me.
 
2012-04-29 08:51:56 PM  

thatboyoverthere: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I've mean to ask. How does one keep the gasoline on the chain and keep oneself from being burn as you beat the person with a flaming chain?


You have the wrong idea.

You attach the chain to the gas can, light it off at the spout, and then chase the person while swinging it around your head. It's sort of like a flaming hammer throw, except with a moving target.
 
2012-04-29 08:53:14 PM  
And for the record, I abhor HOA's. I think they're unnecessary and domineering. That's precisely why I'll never choose to buy a home within one.
 
2012-04-29 08:53:45 PM  

solokumba: Weaver95: And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...

Except for my situation.
I just bought the house next door to me for 55,000.
Now I own a 2 house compound just minutes from the beach.

Sucks to be me I guess.


Sounds like paradise.
 
2012-04-29 08:55:10 PM  

cman: Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law


This IS private ownership & due process of law.

All you need is one person who has the time and money to overuse the process, and they can abuse the law any way they want to.

Nothing this guy has done is illegal, just like nothing the big corporations do is illegal. It may not be legal, but that's not really the same thing.
 
2012-04-29 08:55:13 PM  

cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.


Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.
 
2012-04-29 08:55:41 PM  

archichris: Intoxoman: namatad: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL

I'm one of those jerks who buy property to fix it and sell. I did not turn the place into a crack den first. The previous owners did not either though it was far from nice inside. So I'm a jerk for putting $20k+ into making it a livable house again. And I (and many others who do this) do much of the labor myself. Your're farking lucky jerks like us fix these houses. My first fix-n-flip goes on sale next week. Yea I'll make money but not killing. Jerk

Property flippers move equity out of core neighborhoods. They are killing the 'sweat equity' effect that allowed homeowners of the last generation to buy cheap, renovate and eventually sell high. Every flipped property in my neighborhood is an embarrassment except the one they spent way too much money fixing up.

Good luck to you, but people just like you fed the housing bubble out west, you are not some ...


"Fed the housing bubble"?? Are you kidding? Property flippers created the housing bubble. Anyone who buys a home without the intention of making it a residence for at least 20+ years should be shot in the farking head. Homes are not investments, they are domiciles where human beings libe. If you treat them like the stock market you and your entire family should be raped and killed. And no, I'm not trolling/kidding.

/farking hates house flippers
 
2012-04-29 08:55:52 PM  

AccuJack: thatboyoverthere: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I've mean to ask. How does one keep the gasoline on the chain and keep oneself from being burn as you beat the person with a flaming chain?

You have the wrong idea.

You attach the chain to the gas can, light it off at the spout, and then chase the person while swinging it around your head. It's sort of like a flaming hammer throw, except with a moving target.


Ah. Next Pyro melee weapon for TF2?
 
2012-04-29 08:56:50 PM  

Nuclear Monk: I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.


i close on a house in 2 days.. the HoA rules are nearly non-existent. and i'll make sure to get on the board when we gain control.

unless you have cash-on-hand it is impossible to get a new home without an HoA. and for electrical, structural and chemical reasons i don't trust anything older than 2004. (and i don't trust anything 2006 till the crash)
 
2012-04-29 08:57:03 PM  

NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.


THIS
 
2012-04-29 08:57:12 PM  

archichris: He is in trouble because he moved into the house and lived there without utilities for a year. He filled gallon jugs with urine and stores them in the house. Somehow there are HUNDREDS of jugs in the house


www.erowid.org?

But as to my boldness above, you do know how human anatomy works, yes?
 
2012-04-29 08:58:47 PM  

thatboyoverthere: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I've mean to ask. How does one keep the gasoline on the chain and keep oneself from being burn as you beat the person with a flaming chain?

www.headinjurytheater.com
He manages to do it.
 
2012-04-29 08:59:01 PM  

sharkbeagle: That's fine. I will of course take the private law into my own hands as well and actually murder several people on the HOA or their families and burn down said houses with or without people currently residing in them.

Not kidding. There will be blood.


On the one hand:
images.t-nation.com
/hotlinked

On the other hand part of the unwritten social contract we all agree to is the idea that you don't fark people over so they don't come to your house and set you on fire.

Fundamentally, I'm pretty sure what the HOA is doing is illegal, but buried underneath enough bullshiat that LOOKS legal to stop most folk from beating them down and suing them out of existence.
 
2012-04-29 08:59:54 PM  

SDRR: penthesilea: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.

Cuz nothing screams "I showed you" like going to prison for arson.



There's been a rash of 80+ year old people deciding to commit suicide after getting foreclosed on. And even this doesn't seem to faze anyone.
A burned down house might catch their attention.
 
2012-04-29 09:00:04 PM  

NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.


For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine
 
2012-04-29 09:01:23 PM  

penthesilea: SDRR: penthesilea: Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs

I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.

Cuz nothing screams "I showed you" like going to prison for arson.


There's been a rash of 80+ year old people deciding to commit suicide after getting foreclosed on. And even this doesn't seem to faze anyone.
A burned down house might catch their attention.


I don't think the solution is destroying property that could be reused by others. They should just shoot the bankers or the HOA presidents. Put a bit of fear into the scumbags.
 
2012-04-29 09:01:58 PM  

AccuJack: NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine


You're honesty implying that there's no "practical alternative" to NOT buying a home in an HOA????
 
2012-04-29 09:03:36 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AccuJack: NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine

You're honesty implying that there's no "practical alternative" to NOT buying a home in an HOA????


There's always renting apartments or living in freeway underpasses, because a lot of the good houses are locked up with HOAs.
 
2012-04-29 09:04:12 PM  
Hey, you get what you pay for.
 
2012-04-29 09:04:29 PM  

mikdeetx: Corporate Self: mikdeetx: 1) Turn gas on
2) Rig light bulb to burn by removing glass
3) Install in dark entry
4) HOA flips switch - KABOOM!
5) Collect insurance money and move the fark away.

6) 40 years to life of free room, board, and all the anal sex you can handle

You're a brown noser I take it.


Maybe; merely pointing out that your plan is both dangerous and would likely kill someone.

You're a cold blooded murder I take it
 
2012-04-29 09:05:38 PM  

farkityfarker: penthesilea: I'm honestly shocked that more HOA or Bank evictions don't end with the former owner deciding to just burn the house down as a final fark you. When you have nothing left, might as well go down swinging.

I think most people would rather just be evicted from their home, as terrible as that is, rather than in addition to it facing charges ranging from arson up to first-degree murder if the fire spreads or if a firefighter or someone else gets killed.

Ashtrey: Never move somewhere with an HOA. At least that's what I have learned from Fark. Even if you have a wife or husband who you think can take over the board remember that like in the Game of Thrones, losing has a price.

True, this is valid for your typical single-family lots.

But in the case of condos, that's impossible. Who's going to pay to have the law mowed, or pay for bigger projects like roof repair/replacement, exterior repainting, etc?


Well a condo is different. I meant places that dictate what colors the shutters can be or what plants you can landscape with.

Sure condos can charge for upkeep, no problem with me. I suppose I was off topic but I meant places that insist on absolute control over stand-alone structures. Not some place that says 'Hey it's spring, chip in to replace the pansys with lobelia'. Even if (like a place I lived) they insist you have white blinds you can put drapes on the inside.

But now that you mention it my comment was off topic. I was speaking against regulations, not against maintenance fees.

I really don't know where the law stands on this case. I'm torn between 'you knew what you signed up for' and 'they did WHAT?'.
 
2012-04-29 09:06:12 PM  

cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.


So which family member did they threaten to kill in order to make you sign the contract? Did they hold a gun to your head and make you sign? No? Then they didn't force you to do jack shiat.

People sign HOA agreements either out of ignorance or stupidity. Because they REALLY REALLY want that poorly constructed McMansion in the middle of 2000 acres of identical McMansions.

Stop being an idiot and try again.
 
2012-04-29 09:06:34 PM  

archichris: HOA's are in no way a conservative dream.

The last thing a conservative wants is MORE GOVERNMENT.


HOAs are private entities. Also known as not-government entities.

/ Conservatives don't understand fundamental concepts of government and the economy.
// I am shocked, shocked
 
2012-04-29 09:08:41 PM  

AccuJack: But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.


I spent hours helping my brother build his own car>. Totally street legal. But, that aside most houses in the US are in fact, not covered by a HOA. While it's true that finding new construction not covered by an HOA is difficult, finding a house not covered by an HOA is very easy.
 
2012-04-29 09:08:51 PM  

rebelyell2006: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AccuJack: NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine

You're honesty implying that there's no "practical alternative" to NOT buying a home in an HOA????

There's always renting apartments or living in freeway underpasses, because a lot of the good houses are locked up with HOAs.


No offense, but you're mentally retarded if you think the only options are apartments, underpasses, or HOA neighborhoods. The vast majority of houses for sale are in non-deed-restricted communities. People are attracted to the "good houses" in HOAs for the same reason they're attracted to religion: it makes them feel safe and special, until they realize that they're unable to pick and choose the specific details of the religion/HOA rules to serve their particular tastes/interests. Then they get all pissy and biatch on the internet.

If you don't want to abide by HOA rules, don't live in an HOA neighborhood. It's really that simple. Sorry, but, "I like the idea of no trailers on the front lawn, so I bought in a deed-restricted community, but I hate the idea of mandatory mowings, so I hate my HOA boo hooooo" is a farce.
 
2012-04-29 09:10:33 PM  

Dahnkster: No HOA for me!

[you-are-here.com image 640x363]

'Fort building' as a child is now a survival skill.


The zip ties are a nice touch. If you add a tarp to the top you've got yourself an R1, maybe R2 waterproof shelter.
 
2012-04-29 09:12:17 PM  
I meant to include this link.
 
2012-04-29 09:12:22 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AccuJack: NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine

You're honesty implying that there's no "practical alternative" to NOT buying a home in an HOA????


Sure, you can live in a tent or camp on the beach where it's allowed, or rent a room in a hotel that has monthly rentals at six times the price. Some people can live in campgrounds in their motor home or don't mind living in the grids out by the Salton Sea. But even mobile home parks have HOAs, or something similar.

You are staggeringly out of touch when it comes to how to live in the real world sometimes, you know that? You have this idea that everyone can just pull stakes and move someplace else if they don't like the terms of where they are. "Yes, honey, I know the schools are great, you have a good job, my job is outstanding, the kids' friends are all here and your family is right down the road; the mortgage is awesome and we can count on the value not dropping any time soon--but I'd rather not have an HOA so let's try someplace in Montana???" You make it sound like houses are easy to get and discovering an HOA would make you dump a prime-rate mortgage and a great location and move around the corner in a snap.
 
2012-04-29 09:12:30 PM  
An idea just occurred to me:

1. Establish an LLC. (I think you see where I'm going with this).
2. Buy the property.
3. If the HOA gets out of control, use the LLC to shield yourself from legal/financial ramifications of your actions.

/Businesses do it all the time...
 
2012-04-29 09:12:53 PM  
Boo-farking-hoo
 
2012-04-29 09:13:43 PM  

Honest Bender: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.

So which family member did they threaten to kill in order to make you sign the contract? Did they hold a gun to your head and make you sign? No? Then they didn't force you to do jack shiat.

People sign HOA agreements either out of ignorance or stupidity. Because they REALLY REALLY want that poorly constructed McMansion in the middle of 2000 acres of identical McMansions.

Stop being an idiot and try again.


THIS!

I honestly believe that most people buy into HOA subdivisions because they want to live on a McMansion Farm with all the benefits but none of the costs. They want to live in a pretty, polished area, but don't want to do anything to make sure it stays pretty and polished.

I live in a non-deed-restricted neighborhood, and yeah, there might be boat trailers across the street, but I don't have to worry about some douchebag telling me my lawn needs mowing. I'm an intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions, which is apparently somewhat unique amongst those living in HOA communities.
 
2012-04-29 09:14:12 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: rebelyell2006: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AccuJack: NightOwl2255: cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Please show one example of a person that was forced to sign a deed with HOA CC&R's attached at the point of a gun. Or even the threat of a firm wedgie.

Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

For some value of "willingly". Technically there's always a choice, like people choosing to buy a car instead of build their own. But there's no practical alternative, because the system is set up to make building your own car and actually using it on the road impossible unless you're a corporation with deep pockets and a profit motive. So yeah, you willingly buy a car because your only other choice is to walk.

/another pet peeve of mine

You're honesty implying that there's no "practical alternative" to NOT buying a home in an HOA????

There's always renting apartments or living in freeway underpasses, because a lot of the good houses are locked up with HOAs.

No offense, but you're mentally retarded if you think the only options are apartments, underpasses, or HOA neighborhoods. The vast majority of houses for sale are in non-deed-restricted communities. People are attracted to the "good houses" in HOAs for the same reason they're attracted to religion: it makes them feel safe and special, until they realize that they're unable to pick and choose the specific details of the religion/HOA rules to serve their particular tastes/interests. Then they get all pissy and biatch on the internet.

If you don't want to abide by HOA rules, don't live in an HOA neighborhood. It's really that simple. Sorry, but, "I like the idea of no trailers on the front lawn, so I bought in a deed-restricted community, but I hate the idea of mandatory mowings, so I hate my HOA boo hooooo" is a farce.


You did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.
 
2012-04-29 09:14:17 PM  

cptjeff: You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.


So move to a civilized place.

Or better yet stay in your teabagger heaven and whine about being "forced" to sign an HOA.

Please. Stay there. So you don't bother normal people.
 
2012-04-29 09:15:05 PM  

Honest Bender: Because they REALLY REALLY want that poorly constructed McMansion in the middle of 2000 acres of identical McMansions.


or you're a farking idiot making assumptions out of your ass. it isn't just mcmansion neighborhoods that have HoAs.. it is ever neighborhood in almost every market for the past 10-15 years

only a farking idiot who doesn't know the meaning of the term mcmansion would call the houses being built in 99/100 developments around puget sound mcmansions.. however every single new construction has an HoA. every and many of the non-new properties are in HoA's as well.

the only houses old enough to not be in HoA's [and close enough to not have a 2 hour commute each way] start at $600k for a tiny ass old house that i would have to rip out the entire electrical of and redo to be able to live in. while i have the walls open i would probably find that the plumbing needs repairs, and that the roof needs redone.

in fact one of my coworkers just had a house purchase fall through because the bank refused to lend on the house because of a bad roof being found by the bank's housing inspector and the sellers couldn't afford to fix it [they were idiots who bought in the bubble and played bubble idiot games].
 
2012-04-29 09:16:34 PM  

NightOwl2255: finding a house not covered by an HOA is very easy.


in some markets, but not many. also how much work are you going to have to pump into that house.

oh did i mention in puget sound any house old enough to not have an HoA is probably not up to seismic code.
 
2012-04-29 09:17:11 PM  

solokumba: Weaver95: And yet another reason to never live in florida is revealed...

Except for my situation.
I just bought the house next door to me for 55,000.
Now I own a 2 house compound just minutes from the beach.

Sucks to be me I guess.


It's still Florida.
 
2012-04-29 09:20:16 PM  

GORDON: For a doctor, you sure have some dumb thoughts.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-04-29 09:20:55 PM  

rebelyell2006: ou did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.



Once again, bullshiat.
Your idea of a "good house" seems to be nothing more than one built last year.

I was easily able to find a good house in a great neighborhood for the price I wanted in the area of town I desired that wasn't an HOA property. They are not rare.
 
2012-04-29 09:21:02 PM  

Kazan: only a farking idiot who doesn't know the meaning of the term mcmansion would call the houses being built in 99/100 developments around puget sound mcmansions..


grep puget sound Honest_Bender's_post

Hmm, look at that. No hits... Learn to read before calling someone else an idiot.
 
2012-04-29 09:23:01 PM  

Bunnyhat: rebelyell2006: ou did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.


Once again, bullshiat.
Your idea of a "good house" seems to be nothing more than one built last year.

I was easily able to find a good house in a great neighborhood for the price I wanted in the area of town I desired that wasn't an HOA property. They are not rare.


What is true for your neighborhood is not true for every neighborhood.
 
2012-04-29 09:23:34 PM  

archichris: Intoxoman: namatad: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL

I'm one of those jerks who buy property to fix it and sell. I did not turn the place into a crack den first. The previous owners did not either though it was far from nice inside. So I'm a jerk for putting $20k+ into making it a livable house again. And I (and many others who do this) do much of the labor myself. Your're farking lucky jerks like us fix these houses. My first fix-n-flip goes on sale next week. Yea I'll make money but not killing. Jerk

Property flippers move equity out of core neighborhoods. They are killing the 'sweat equity' effect that allowed homeowners of the last generation to buy cheap, renovate and eventually sell high. Every flipped property in my neighborhood is an embarrassment except the one they spent way too much money fixing up.

Good luck to you, but people just like you fed the housing bubble out west, you are not some ...


I'm not sure why you think I'm calling myself a saint. I did indeed buy cheap. The former homeowners "sweat equity" was atrocious. The $20k+ I quoted is likely more like $25k (I haven't done final numbers yet sorry) plus my labor. I do not throw some paint on the house and put it on the market to make an "embarrassment" house. I think you missed the part where I said this was my first. I had nothing to do with the housing bubble. And prior to moving here 1 1/2 years ago I was living in NC. There was just as much housing bubble in Charlotte, NC I can assure you.
 
2012-04-29 09:24:02 PM  

Kazan: the only houses old enough to not be in HoA's [and close enough to not have a 2 hour commute each way] start at $600k for a tiny ass old house that i would have to rip out the entire electrical of and redo to be able to live in. while i have the walls open i would probably find that the plumbing needs repairs, and that the roof needs redone.


NOBODY lives in those places.

Because it's too crowded!
 
2012-04-29 09:24:09 PM  

Honest Bender: Kazan: only a farking idiot who doesn't know the meaning of the term mcmansion would call the houses being built in 99/100 developments around puget sound mcmansions..

grep puget sound Honest_Bender's_post

Hmm, look at that. No hits... Learn to read before calling someone else an idiot.


go reread your post.

Honest Bender: People sign HOA agreements either out of ignorance or stupidity. Because they REALLY REALLY want that poorly constructed McMansion in the middle of 2000 acres of identical McMansions.


that is a blanket statement that doesn't restrict to an area.. you said HoAs, as in all HoAs..

so.. don't try to weasel out of what you said. either own up to it and claim you're in error, or defend it.
 
2012-04-29 09:26:45 PM  

rebelyell2006: You did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.


Are you trolling me? You're literally saying, "The only good homes are in HOA's, but HOA's require good homes so they suck!" I don't get what your point is.

I understand that houses outside of HOA's suck, but guess what, that's because there isn't some retired busybody coming by every day with a ruler to measure the length of the grass and the height of the shed. As adults, we have to make preferential choices and compromises. I personally don't want to live in a subdivision where every house is required to have the same kind of mailbox, so guess what, I live in an area that doesn't. And not only that, some of my neighbors might not take care of their property in a fashion that I would prefer. But that's ok, because I don't want to live in a farking HOA.

Seriously, your line of argument is basically, "I want to live in an HOA, but one in which I make all the rules!" Good luck with that.
 
2012-04-29 09:27:12 PM  
r

NightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.


Not always. My folks got into a small and exclusive area and that group started a VERY minimal HOA for practical reasons, including negotiating power with the county, trsah and snow removal services, etc., and it was never used for anything but extraordinarily basic reasons, and never targeted at the homeowners.
Fast forward 20 years values go up, and a few original owners sell. At that point investors building speculative McMansions on the couple undeveloped lots, bank reps holding a couple of foreclosed homes, and a couple power-hungry douchebags that moved in all had just enough power to vote themselves in as dictators for life.
Now the place resembles the HOA in the article all of a sudden, and an owner lost a lot of money when buyers were forced to back out as the HOA was throwing up roadblocks to them moving in (not buying it, just moving in). All we can figure out that separated them from any other buyer was that they were Mormons and our pocket gods in the HOA are fundy Christians. That was never mentioned of course, but they had more and more hoops to jump through appearing almost as fast as they found solutions to the last ones. For at least a year.. God help us if an ethnic family tries to move in.
I am expecting the original residents to start being targeted soon. Rules pertaining to 'everybody' but clearly aimed at specific individuals have already been getting floated out there.
 
2012-04-29 09:27:28 PM  

Kazan: that is a blanket statement that doesn't restrict to an area.. you said HoAs, as in all HoAs..

so.. don't try to weasel out of what you said. either own up to it and claim you're in error, or defend it.


Ok, fine. If you want to be a pedantic dick about the exact wording of what I said, then an area composed of, "2000 acres of identical McMansions" excludes Puget Sound. Now go play quietly in the corner. Adults are talking.
 
2012-04-29 09:28:20 PM  

Bunnyhat: rebelyell2006: ou did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.


Once again, bullshiat.
Your idea of a "good house" seems to be nothing more than one built last year.

I was easily able to find a good house in a great neighborhood for the price I wanted in the area of town I desired that wasn't an HOA property. They are not rare.


Again, THIS. In my county, the "good houses" are nowhere near the cookie-cutter HOA developments. Then again, there may be a minority in the cul de sac, or a pothole on the street, and we can't have that!
 
2012-04-29 09:28:38 PM  
HOA's i've seen in NJ are filled with the types of arseholes that farkers love to mock. pretentious Thad's & Muffy's who have to be at the gym in 26 minutes. privileged white people that have had every advantage and have never gone hungry once in their lives. they are the worst sort of people, the type that deserve ass cancer. not because of money & privilege, because they are insufferable know-it-all dooshbags that truly believe they are better than others.

and who in their right mind allows a home in their neighborhood to become a farking crack den? 3:15AM molotov cocktail party will cure what ails you, ya dickless wonders.
 
2012-04-29 09:28:50 PM  

jaytkay: Kazan: the only houses old enough to not be in HoA's [and close enough to not have a 2 hour commute each way] start at $600k for a tiny ass old house that i would have to rip out the entire electrical of and redo to be able to live in. while i have the walls open i would probably find that the plumbing needs repairs, and that the roof needs redone.

NOBODY lives in those places.

Because it's too crowded!


actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

like what? bars? ridiculously overpriced little cafes? stores that i don't want anything from?

i don't want to live there because they're priced farking outrageously and they're hideously old.
 
2012-04-29 09:29:44 PM  

CliChe Guevara: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

Not always.


Nowhere in your tl;dr rant did you explain how your folks were forced into the HOA.
 
2012-04-29 09:30:40 PM  
Oh please let it happen to the people that bought the home behind me. God I hate those noisy asshats. This is what my dues should go to.
 
2012-04-29 09:31:10 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs


Trust me, the amount of glue holding all the OSB and laminated beams together, you don't want to eat anything cooked over the flames of a home built in the last 20 years or so. You'd get diagnosed with cancer before the fire department showed up.
 
2012-04-29 09:31:23 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: rebelyell2006: You did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.

Are you trolling me? You're literally saying, "The only good homes are in HOA's, but HOA's require good homes so they suck!" I don't get what your point is.

I understand that houses outside of HOA's suck, but guess what, that's because there isn't some retired busybody coming by every day with a ruler to measure the length of the grass and the height of the shed. As adults, we have to make preferential choices and compromises. I personally don't want to live in a subdivision where every house is required to have the same kind of mailbox, so guess what, I live in an area that doesn't. And not only that, some of my neighbors might not take care of their property in a fashion that I would prefer. But that's ok, because I don't want to live in a farking HOA.

Seriously, your line of argument is basically, "I want to live in an HOA, but one in which I make all the rules!" Good luck with that.


There's absolutely nothing wrong (physically) with the good houses, they unfortunately have the HOA worked into the contract for purchasing the house. Which doesn't mean the houses are bad, just the HOA's. There is a clear distinction that you must understand.

"I understand that houses outside of HOA's suck, but guess what, that's because there isn't some retired busybody coming by every day with a ruler to measure the length of the grass and the height of the shed. "

Houses outside of HOA's suck because they are the old ones without updated plumbing and electricity (at least in Northwest Georgia). The ones that have to be gutted if one has no problem with lead paint or 40-year-old pipes and wiring. I don't care about my neighbors or what they do.
 
2012-04-29 09:32:37 PM  

Honest Bender: CliChe Guevara: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

Not always.

Nowhere in your tl;dr rant did you explain how your folks were forced into the HOA.


His folks got into a "small and exclusive" area. The fact that people who would seek out a "small and exclusive area" would then form an HOA is completely anathema. Seriously, who would buy property in a "small and exclusive" area, and then try to keep the area small and exclusive?? His parents couldn't have expected that. They aren't psychic.
 
2012-04-29 09:33:43 PM  
Even more evidence why HOAs need to either be severely reigned in or preferably be banned.
 
2012-04-29 09:34:05 PM  

rebelyell2006: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: rebelyell2006: You did notice that I said "good houses", and you are right that there are houses without HOA restrictions, but those houses tend to be a little on the crappy side and thus not desirable. It's like choosing between buying an Oscar Meyer hotdog dipped in lead paint and rusted pipes and left in the hot sun for forty years, or buying a freshly-prepared Vienna sausage with buns and a two-year contract with the restaurant.

Are you trolling me? You're literally saying, "The only good homes are in HOA's, but HOA's require good homes so they suck!" I don't get what your point is.

I understand that houses outside of HOA's suck, but guess what, that's because there isn't some retired busybody coming by every day with a ruler to measure the length of the grass and the height of the shed. As adults, we have to make preferential choices and compromises. I personally don't want to live in a subdivision where every house is required to have the same kind of mailbox, so guess what, I live in an area that doesn't. And not only that, some of my neighbors might not take care of their property in a fashion that I would prefer. But that's ok, because I don't want to live in a farking HOA.

Seriously, your line of argument is basically, "I want to live in an HOA, but one in which I make all the rules!" Good luck with that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong (physically) with the good houses, they unfortunately have the HOA worked into the contract for purchasing the house. Which doesn't mean the houses are bad, just the HOA's. There is a clear distinction that you must understand.

"I understand that houses outside of HOA's suck, but guess what, that's because there isn't some retired busybody coming by every day with a ruler to measure the length of the grass and the height of the shed. "

Houses outside of HOA's suck because they are the old ones without updated plumbing and electricity (at least in Northwest Georgia). The ones that ...


You're in Northwest GA and you claim that you can't find a decent home outside of an HOA? So you are trolling me, after all. Good to know.
 
2012-04-29 09:35:57 PM  

Honest Bender: Kazan: that is a blanket statement that doesn't restrict to an area.. you said HoAs, as in all HoAs..

so.. don't try to weasel out of what you said. either own up to it and claim you're in error, or defend it.

Ok, fine. If you want to be a pedantic dick about the exact wording of what I said, then an area composed of, "2000 acres of identical McMansions" excludes Puget Sound. Now go play quietly in the corner. Adults are talking.


that isn't owning up to your statement, you little childish prat. you made the implication that only communities of shiatty mcmansions have HoAs - and you're dead farking wrong everything has HoAs now.


Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I personally don't want to live in a subdivision where every house is required to have the same kind of mailbox, so guess what, I live in an area that doesn'


not all HoA's have ridiculously farking rules and aren't run by pretentious fools. all the other owners in my development that i've met agree with me - keep the HoA barely existent.
 
2012-04-29 09:36:53 PM  

For all the Florida bashers - I would refer you to a previous article about this development and HOA douchebag:
Link

"We were expecting a real nice, clean community," Spector said. "We'd moved from California, and we were expecting the planned communities to be similar to the planned communities we'd lived in in California."


California Nazi...figures.

And then this gem...
"These are the people who are going to move in and actually live in the community," Spector said.
"These are the people who are going to take care of the community. It doesn't matter if they had a $200,000 discount from what I paid."


What a difference four years makes huh
 
2012-04-29 09:40:33 PM  

Kazan: actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"


Ewww, you mean socialize and talk to people?

Why do that when you have an HOA-protected enclave with cable TV and an Xbox.
 
2012-04-29 09:41:50 PM  

Honest Bender: CliChe Guevara: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

Not always.

Nowhere in your tl;dr rant did you explain how your folks were forced into the HOA.


Then you didn't read it. They didn't get forced in to just any old HOA, they got forced into a truly EVIL one, almost 20 years after they bought the house.

It is treu they were in a different HOA, one that they didn't just join it, they helped found it. A sane one. The fact the original one eventually got voted out by a block of outsiders and the HOA turned into a monstrosity nearing that in the article shows the danger of HOA's. Neighborhoods can go HOA around you against your wishes, or a benign one can turn malevolent, and all you can do is sell - if the HOA even chooses to let you.
 
2012-04-29 09:42:10 PM  
I printed out this entire thread just to burn in effigy in my trash barrel out back.
 
2012-04-29 09:42:28 PM  
If you give a complete moron with no life an unearned position of authority, they will exercise it poorly? Whoa.
 
2012-04-29 09:45:32 PM  
Moved to FL a few years ago. every house we've lived in has had an HOA attached to it. First one had issues with maintaining the yard since it was a huge lot and problems with the owner (when we left we cleaned up the house but it wasn't good enough and owner wanted it as if no one had lived there. ever.) second house we didn't even live six months in because the arsehole HOA voted for no more renters. The owner and Century 21 said we could break the lease to move since we were spending time now to find a new place. Third place we've been in nearly 4 years now HOA is barely even noticeable (old-vacation home and we pay those guys who run the place) except for when we park on the street.....like everyone else does. HOA's are still dingbats and as someone said, we didn't even know about the HOA until we got a letter telling us to not park on the street.

/do it anyway
//five people working at all different hours, varying day-to-day
 
2012-04-29 09:45:57 PM  

Kazan: everything has HoAs now


If you're idea of "everything" is restricted to lame-ass ticky-tacky white-bread cheap-construction soul-less subdivisions, then I see your point.

Most Americans do not live under an HOA.
 
2012-04-29 09:46:09 PM  

grimlock1972: Even more evidence why HOAs need to either be severely reigned in or preferably be banned.


now those i have no problem with.. if it was possible i would have bought without an HoA .. but it isn't
 
2012-04-29 09:46:15 PM  

AccuJack: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:

But because it's a government commission, they're accountable to your rights in a way that HOAs just aren't. They can't stop you from exercising your freedom of speech, for example, and because it's a government commission, the courts give them much less leeway.

So very much this. I have experience with that in a non HOA situation. The biggest problem I have with my city government is that the pseudo-court administrative system allows them to bypass accountability. They've made it very hard to exercise eg. the right to an airing of grievances in court because they claim their "administrative hearings" ARE "courts". Except they're "informal" and don't follow things like rules of evidence or right to an appeal.

An HOA is like a child's model of a government without all the critical things like rights and due process.


You live in Quartzsite AZ?
 
2012-04-29 09:50:13 PM  

jaytkay: Kazan: actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

Ewww, you mean socialize and talk to people?

Why do that when you have an HOA-protected enclave with cable TV and an Xbox.


there you go making assumptions about HoA communities again....

HoA: bad
Communities with HoAs: not all antisocial gated communities of mcmansions.


jaytkay: Kazan: everything has HoAs now

If you're idea of "everything" is restricted to lame-ass ticky-tacky white-bread cheap-construction soul-less subdivisions, then I see your point.

Most Americans do not live under an HOA.


jaytkay: Kazan: everything has HoAs now

If you're idea of "everything" is restricted to lame-ass ticky-tacky white-bread cheap-construction soul-less subdivisions, then I see your point.

Most Americans do not live under an HOA.


you really are a farking idiot, aren't you? go farking research the market you goddamn farking retard
 
2012-04-29 09:50:31 PM  

mauricecano: As long as you haven't broken a law, the police can't do anything.


...Uhm, have you seen the news lately?

Hell, arresting lawful residents to protect their friends on HOA boards is probably small potatoes to Florida cops...
 
2012-04-29 09:51:00 PM  
I really appreciate these threads. When ever I get bored living in the middle of nowhere, this reminds me that things aren't exactly peaches in cream in town either.
 
2012-04-29 09:52:08 PM  

jaytkay: Most Americans do not live under an HOA.


oh and how many times do i have to explain the only houses not in HoAs in the market out here cost farking outrageous amounts of money AND still need gutted and redone just to start with.
 
2012-04-29 09:53:27 PM  
That's what HOAs do. Why is anyone surprised?
 
2012-04-29 09:55:05 PM  

IlGreven: Hell, arresting lawful residents to protect their friends on HOA boards is probably small potatoes to Florida cops...


Are you saying that Florida cops don't have the moral compass of Sgt. Joe Friday? I'm shocked.
 
2012-04-29 09:57:32 PM  

Cuchulane: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:
/I know, I know Fark Independents, more government is never the answer

I think it is interesting that the more conservative states have more HOA's. It makes me think conservative angst is a lot less about "freedom" and a lot more about class segregation. Here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts (as red states would have you believe), I could paint my house neon green and cover my yard with all of the banners, signs, and decorations I want. Bathtub Mary anyone?


I have never actually seen an HOA first-hand, I left the suburbs for Bumfarkistan when I was 8 and have lived in out in the country or in an apartment ever since. But my off-the-cuff hypothesis is that HOAs form and sell themselves as "community" in the same false-nostalgia memetic trough as the 1950s "Leave it to Beaver" neighborhood where everybody knows each other and is friendly and watches out for one another. They follow it up with stories about the ghettos and barrios a few blocks away (where the help lives) and vague comments about crime and neighborhood watches and how city-folk don't talk to their neighbors ever.

Basically, it's an attempt to manufacture the mythical "small town cohesiveness" that is so fetishized by common culture (especially in red states).
 
2012-04-29 09:57:52 PM  

cptjeff: jaytkay: 1) Choose lame-ass suburban home in a lame-ass subdivision with an HOA
2) Willingly sign the HOA's contract
3) Break the contract cuz you're a rebel! not a lame-ass suburban dork! by golly!
4) Complain when they remind you of the contract you signed

You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.



You're completely clueless. I've been making mortgages for 26 years all over the country and your statement is completely incorrect. Please gain some facts and try again.

I've never seen a gun at a closing.
 
2012-04-29 09:57:57 PM  
regarding the "you should just rent" derping - there are lots of areas of the country where rent/mortgage is backwards. The house I live in - $1600 a month goes to the bank. Same place would rent for nearly $3k. In exchange for saving $1400 every month, I get to build a little equity (maybe), write off home office improvements, install solar (zero upfront, "agree to pay" less than I currently pay...), and write off interest payments. Plus, on weekends that I'm bored, I can get a bit of my DIY out of my system...just built a retaining wall and a terraced garden, pretty cheaply. Even if house prices go down, the place should stay the same - all because of the weekend entertainment it gave me.

You think instead I should rent, just because I only plan to be here 5-7 years? Really? Sure, there's no HOA. Sure, I waited until really recently to get back in - sold, waited, rebought elsewhere. But to blindly say people should just rent...silliness. Even with HOAs it makes more sense to "own" in a lot of areas.

//all that, despite being in San Diego...
 
2012-04-29 09:58:37 PM  

archichris: He filled gallon jugs with urine and stores them in the house. Somehow there are HUNDREDS of jugs in the house.


content8.flixster.com
Yeeeeees?
 
2012-04-29 10:02:39 PM  

jmr61: cptjeff: jaytkay: 1) Choose lame-ass suburban home in a lame-ass subdivision with an HOA
2) Willingly sign the HOA's contract
3) Break the contract cuz you're a rebel! not a lame-ass suburban dork! by golly!
4) Complain when they remind you of the contract you signed

You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.


You're completely clueless. I've been making mortgages for 26 years all over the country and your statement is completely incorrect. Please gain some facts and try again.

I've never seen a gun at a closing.


and you're in west virignia.. there aren't exactly housing developments in west virginia. how about you go look in a market where people actually live

(caveat: my wife is from west virignia)
 
2012-04-29 10:07:38 PM  

vudukungfu: I printed out this entire thread just to burn in effigy in my trash barrel out back.


HEY!!! You can't do that!!! Didn't you read the HOA rules?! What is wrong with you?
 
2012-04-29 10:09:02 PM  

namegoeshere: In 2010, Spector was unapologetic about how the association is dealing with the challenge.

"I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune.


Translation: I bought the "houses never decrease in value" schtick hook, line, and sinker, and am now butthurt that I overpaid by such a large amount for my house which is now completely under water, and I am going to take my anger out on those who didn't fall for this trap and are therefore paying much less.


That's almost exactly what I was going to say. In Fark parlance, THIS ^^^^^.
 
2012-04-29 10:10:34 PM  

namatad: The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.


That's the downside: the very unlikely chance that a worst-case neighbor moves in and tanks your property values. . .and assuming you give a fark about property values (i.e. intend to sell your home, instead of intending to live there for the rest of your life and see a plummeting property value as just cheaper property taxes to pay).

Weighed against the very likely chance of a crypto-fascist HOA. . .I'll go with the odds and trust random neighbors than quasi-governmental HOAs that can steal my property and tax and fine me for not making my house look like something out of Pleasantville.
 
2012-04-29 10:14:33 PM  

IamAwake: You think instead I should rent, just because I only plan to be here 5-7 years? Really?


If you don't have a big downpayment, you'll be farked if the market tanks again. Better make sure you're saving that difference between the mortgage and rent in that area. 5-7 is a borderline area in buy vs. rent timeline and of course there's lots of other factors, one of which the rent/mortgage difference seems to go for you in that area, it doesn't everywhere.

Some of the just rent can get a little derpy but the real herp derp is on the buying side. "now has never been a better time to buy. talk to a RealtorTM today"
 
2012-04-29 10:16:35 PM  

Silverstaff: Weighed against the very likely chance of a crypto-fascist HOA


actually i thinnk the HOAs that act like asses are overexposed compared to the (almost certainly) million+ HoAs that do next to nothing.
 
2012-04-29 10:17:30 PM  

Cuchulane: Bathtub Mary anyone?


Full of grace!

/obscure?
 
2012-04-29 10:18:10 PM  
There's only one way to bring an insane HOA back into line...

a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

Pimp slap biaaaaatch!
 
2012-04-29 10:27:46 PM  
I was visiting my friend's parents in their neighborhood. As we pulled off the main road a crazy guy from the HOA was putting out cones next to the curb in front of the pool area with "no parking" signs. They were gone the next day. The reason? Apparently someone parked there for 5 minutes earlier in the day and that guy had to make sure that no one else was going to make the same mistake. It was the middle of a Tuesday and I don't think I saw more than 2 cars on the road at any point driving through that neighborhood, not that a car there would be blocking anyone or causing a problem.

Once the mailman scraped their mailbox with his mirror and broke the door. By the time anyone living in the house came home there was already a warning notice about what would happen if it wasn't fixed. Those are just the stories that I witnessed. Some that I heard were completely unbelievable. Those people are nuts.

I wonder how many of those HOA jerks had heart attacks when their homes were worth half as much despite all of their petty acts and ridiculous behavior. The people I knew there moved away right before the housing prices took a dive and were staying in a rental before buying something new, so they lucked out.
 
2012-04-29 10:32:52 PM  

generallyso: Bunnyhat: You know, I try to feel sorry for people who buy a house in an HOA, but I can't.
They know what they're getting into. The stories have been told for over a decade now.

It's getting to the point that not living under HOAs is as practical as finding a telecom without a binding arbitration clause.


Pretty much this. And a lot of these stories on fark concern new rules that end up being passed after a person moves in, as well.
 
2012-04-29 10:34:19 PM  
Some of you have really weird ideas about older homes..Not every home older than 1990's is falling
apart and need new everything. My house is over 80. It's brick, not new house "brick" veneer on 1/3 of
the front side, ALL BRICK..The electricity works, the plumbing works, etc.. It's absurdly solid. Sure the
floors squeek..It's 80 years old..But at 160, I bet it's still here when the newer houses become unglued and
fall apart. As it was mentioned before. Most new houses in developments are thrown together and cheap.
At the height of the building boom, the new houses in my are were being thrown together so quickly
that they just seemed to appear. These are the same houses that went to pieces in 50mph wind.
Windows fell out, the ubiquitous tan siding flew, and garage doors blew in. The "Castles in a cornfield"
are just a veneer over poor construction. When all the buyers care about are granite counters, the "exclusive"
area, and a culda-sac, construction standards don't matter..

For me, I just view myself as a caretaker passing through my house..I try to improve it, keep it up and
live in it..I know it's going to be here long after I am..
 
2012-04-29 10:34:48 PM  
Was his middle initial M?

/RESMPECT
 
2012-04-29 10:34:56 PM  
For every HOA that is fairly reasonable, is only concerned with keeping the area looking decent and property values up, and making sure that everyone in the neighborhood contributes to the maintenance of common areas and that it all doesn't devolve onto one person or the city...I'm sure there's at least one where the HOA has fallen under the control of one petty asshole (or a small coalition of same) who are using their power to recreate their corner of the world in their own image.

And it rarely happens that even the most fascist HOA sits down to write completely asinine rules; it happens over time and by default. Someone suggests that, for instance, lawns need to be kept to a certain standard and maintained a certain way. Everyone agrees at first this is a good idea, (because who wants lawns to look like crap?) and it gets written into the bylaws. Over time and for a variety of reasons, lawns start to decay, and instead of rewriting the bylaws, because this would require getting together and discussing things, the HOA levies fines for the unkempt lawns. This engenders bad feelings, leading to even more uncared-for lawns, and so it goes. Maybe someone moves, and either forgets or "forgets" to tell the new tenant about the HOA regs, and the new owner tears out the lawn to put in a sustainable yard...now a new lawsuit ensued.

This all starts because HOAs are not themselves regulated by anyone--any batch of people can sit down and make an HOA; and people like to think everything will be nice and happy forever, and nobody remembers to put clauses into their regulations like "What do we do if there is a prolonged drought" or "what happens if somebody moves and the restrictive clause isn't in their deed" and there are never easy methods for altering the HOA regs like mail-in votes or phone votes. Kind of like how partnership agreements always agree to share the profits but forget that means they'll be sharing the losses.

At the end of the whole process, you've got one or two power-mad lunatics like this one who know enough about small-claims and real estate law to pull these kinds of shenanigans.
 
2012-04-29 10:35:25 PM  

Cuchulane: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich:
/I know, I know Fark Independents, more government is never the answer

I think it is interesting that the more conservative states have more HOA's. It makes me think conservative angst is a lot less about "freedom" and a lot more about class segregation. Here in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts (as red states would have you believe), I could paint my house neon green and cover my yard with all of the banners, signs, and decorations I want. Bathtub Mary anyone?


You know, that diversity makes life fun; not all this cookie cutter home designs and shiat with a golf course. And the housing market going to hell didn't save home values one damn bit, especially if the homebuilders or development owners went out of business.
 
2012-04-29 10:35:54 PM  

Kazan: jmr61: cptjeff: jaytkay: 1) Choose lame-ass suburban home in a lame-ass subdivision with an HOA
2) Willingly sign the HOA's contract
3) Break the contract cuz you're a rebel! not a lame-ass suburban dork! by golly!
4) Complain when they remind you of the contract you signed

You don't sign the HOA's contract willingly. It's included when you buy, and it's virtually impossible to buy a house without one attached in some parts of the country.

Stop being an idiot and try again.


You're completely clueless. I've been making mortgages for 26 years all over the country and your statement is completely incorrect. Please gain some facts and try again.

I've never seen a gun at a closing.

and you're in west virignia.. there aren't exactly housing developments in west virginia. how about you go look in a market where people actually live

(caveat: my wife is from west virignia)


Fark Translator™: "Something is the case in the area I live in, therefore it is the case everywhere."
 
2012-04-29 10:36:28 PM  

12349876: Some of the just rent can get a little derpy but the real herp derp is on the buying side. "now has never been a better time to buy. talk to a RealtorTM today"


Not to mention a lot of people don't want to admit to being scammed or taken in, and push buying with the same thought-terminating cliches like 'you're throwing your money away.' Because the housing market is FULL of savings, even when the whole thing collapsed.

That said, with HOAs, what is the benefit of owning? You're basically renting on a 15-30 year basis without any of the benefits and subject to any asshole with a power complex coming in and telling you what to do with something you own. Why farking bother with shouldering the costs of repair and taxes when you're still a tenant?
 
2012-04-29 10:37:47 PM  
ANYone who would buy a home that has an HOA doesn't have the God given sense they were born with. HOA's suck - there are other places to live. Save yourself, time, money, hassle, and you will be a happier home owner!
 
2012-04-29 10:42:03 PM  
rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

We'll leave the "willingly" aside. Our HOA recently banned VEGETABLES. But ignore that moranhood: an HOA is an unlimited financial liability against your property. If your HOA decides to persecute (your favorite minority), you are financial liable. Ours went after a homeowner over their farking trees --- and lost $1.000 per home in the court case.
 
2012-04-29 10:44:21 PM  

Guntram Shatterhand: That said, with HOAs, what is the benefit of owning? You're basically renting on a 15-30 year basis without any of the benefits and subject to any asshole with a power complex coming in and telling you what to do with something you own. Why farking bother with shouldering the costs of repair and taxes when you're still a tenant?


You could say the same about property taxes and government. You're still "renting" because the government can take it if you don't pay your taxes. But to answer the question, you're still building (or losing) equity in an HOA which you aren't doing in a rental.
 
2012-04-29 10:50:42 PM  
My masters thesis research this summer is in a suburban community that is trying to incorporate into a town, but is full of HOA neighborhoods. The HOAs themselves aren't that important to my work, but with stories like this one I might have to carry out a little side project.

/csb
 
2012-04-29 10:51:15 PM  
I don't care if I'm offered a mansion for $100K. HOAs are freaking evil. Never never NEVER will buy a house where an HOA gets to have a say in how I live in my own damn home.
 
TWX
2012-04-29 10:56:43 PM  

Cuchulane: When does the shooting start?


That's what I was thinking. I've never been driven to take the life of someone, but I could imagine a circumstance like this hypothetically making that a lot easier of a decision.
 
2012-04-29 10:57:12 PM  

cosmiquemuffin: I don't care if I'm offered a mansion for $100K. HOAs are freaking evil. Never never NEVER will buy a house where an HOA gets to have a say in how I live in my own damn home.


except the government.
 
2012-04-29 10:57:17 PM  

Dahnkster: No HOA for me!

[you-are-here.com image 640x363]

'Fort building' as a child is now a survival skill.


A lot more waterproof if you coat it with a $6 oversized tarp.
 
2012-04-29 11:00:40 PM  

Omnivorous: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

We'll leave the "willingly" aside. Our HOA recently banned VEGETABLES. But ignore that moranhood: an HOA is an unlimited financial liability against your property. If your HOA decides to persecute (your favorite minority), you are financial liable. Ours went after a homeowner over their farking trees --- and lost $1.000 per home in the court case.


csb...

My parents just bought what will be their last house they ever own bein that they're in their 70s. Got out of a diving market in Seattle on a home with no mortgage (but values dropping) and traded for a home on a bank owned development and golf community. They made a straight trade dollar for dollar on a 4 year old custom home that went for less than half of the builder's price. It has an HOA, but overseen by the bank, and not the builder's anymore. I had the discussion with my pop on how does one do all this work to stay OK with all the covenants on that theory or faith that it keeps home values artificially high? You scored on a helluva deal, but the family that had it first bought the farm (and half the neighborhood) no matter what they did?

It completely discredits the idea of forcing people to take care of their homes, and not have paint flaking and keeping the grass at 2" where there isn't any naturally with an HOA. But if home values creep up again, and we have another bubble in 15 years and values crash again for no apparent reason. My sister and I will inherit it at some point, but not sure I'd keep it if there's some dicky HOA running the show and it loses value AGAIN later anyway.
 
2012-04-29 11:06:53 PM  
Winktologist: If people are so worried about a crack den in their neighborhood, shouldn't they call the farking cops?

I would never live anywhere with an HOA. Ever. And this is a prime example why.


This.

Why are you going to cough up 100K's of your hard earned money to give someone else the ultimate say in your home and your affairs? Zoning and municipal rules are one thing, as they're clear and not draconian, they're in the public interest. A HOA on the other hand is is just handing over your balls in a jar (and your wallet), with rules that can change whenever the board decides to do so.

Frak that. I'll never live in one. Even if you're in a good one, all it takes is one or two douches to move in, fell they're entitled to take it over from everyone else who has been pretty apathetic, and cause a shiatstorm of issues that are 100% legal.
 
2012-04-29 11:08:03 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: Some of you have really weird ideas about older homes..Not every home older than 1990's is falling
apart and need new everything. My house is over 80. It's brick, not new house "brick" veneer on 1/3 of
the front side, ALL BRICK..The electricity works, the plumbing works, etc.. It's absurdly solid. Sure the
floors squeek..It's 80 years old..But at 160, I bet it's still here when the newer houses become unglued and
fall apart. As it was mentioned before. Most new houses in developments are thrown together and cheap.
At the height of the building boom, the new houses in my are were being thrown together so quickly
that they just seemed to appear. These are the same houses that went to pieces in 50mph wind.
Windows fell out, the ubiquitous tan siding flew, and garage doors blew in. The "Castles in a cornfield"
are just a veneer over poor construction. When all the buyers care about are granite counters, the "exclusive"
area, and a culda-sac, construction standards don't matter..

For me, I just view myself as a caretaker passing through my house..I try to improve it, keep it up and
live in it..I know it's going to be here long after I am..


how many amps is your electrical service, how about the siesmic building code where you are at (most places don't have to worry about that) i doubt you'd pass that. how about the chemicals in your paint, what materials were used in your floors?


not every old house is crap.. out here the ones that aren't crap cost obscene amounts.
 
2012-04-29 11:09:41 PM  
HOAs: not even once.
 
2012-04-29 11:13:02 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Fark Translator™: "Something is the case in the area I live in, therefore it is the case everywhere."


actually i didn't claim that.. if you go back and read i've just been calling out the people who have been doing that.

Guntram Shatterhand: You're basically renting on a 15-30 year basis without any of the benefits and subject to any asshole with a power complex coming in and telling you what to do with something you own.


you know how i know you don't know a damn thing about HoAs besides the few news reports of ones run amok in florida or arizona you've read.

TyrantII: A HOA on the other hand is is just handing over your balls in a jar (and your wallet), with rules that can change whenever the board decides to do so.


you do realize that you have a say in your HoA right?
You do realize that the vast majority of HoAs are not dictactorial?
You do realize in some states it is easier to tell a dictatorial HoA to go pound sand, right?


Would i rather not have an HoA? absolutely
Are HoA's as evil as we get the impression of them? No


like this most things created by humans... for everthing there is a perfectly horrid example.
 
2012-04-29 11:14:13 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: Some of you have really weird ideas about older homes..Not every home older than 1990's is falling
apart and need new everything. My house is over 80. It's brick, not new house "brick" veneer on 1/3 of
the front side, ALL BRICK..The electricity works, the plumbing works, etc.. It's absurdly solid. Sure the
floors squeek..It's 80 years old..But at 160, I bet it's still here when the newer houses become unglued and
fall apart. As it was mentioned before. Most new houses in developments are thrown together and cheap.
At the height of the building boom, the new houses in my are were being thrown together so quickly
that they just seemed to appear. These are the same houses that went to pieces in 50mph wind.
Windows fell out, the ubiquitous tan siding flew, and garage doors blew in. The "Castles in a cornfield"
are just a veneer over poor construction. When all the buyers care about are granite counters, the "exclusive"
area, and a culda-sac, construction standards don't matter..

For me, I just view myself as a caretaker passing through my house..I try to improve it, keep it up and
live in it..I know it's going to be here long after I am..


Fark yeah. My house is an experimental Sheetrock palace from the late 1930s, built by an architect who was dying of TB, and even it is holding up better than ricky-ticky boxes built by developers.
 
2012-04-29 11:19:01 PM  

grimlock1972: Even more evidence why HOAs need to either be severely reigned in or preferably be banned.


They have a reason for existing. Usually it's so you can't park your meth trailer in the back of the house, hoist up a nazi flag, or something more realistic like you have a lake that needs yearly maintenance because you don't want it flooding the neighborhood right next door if the dam fails. The idea that they can EVER kick you out of your own house is what needs to be banned. Don't pay the fees get ding on your credit and get taken to court, not get kicked out of your place.

HOAs aren't all evil
 
2012-04-29 11:25:40 PM  
And the reason not to ban HOAs is. . .?
 
2012-04-29 11:26:25 PM  
I've lived in three separate homes with HOAs and so far, they've been fairly benign. Keep the weeds in the front yard down, replace any plants in the front yard that die, no garden gnomes in the front yard, bring your garbage bins back in by the end of the following day of pickup, no cars on the sidewalks, take the Christmas lights off the front of the house by February, no cars on blocks and use sane color schemes for your house's paint job.

I keep hearing about these Nazi HOAs, but I have yet to deal with one. I've found that when an issue comes up, sometimes you have to jump through a couple of hoops, but they're generally reasonable. OTOH, I live in a sunshine state that isn't completely batshiat insane. Our state actually passed a number of laws to limit the amount of power HOA governing boards have.
 
2012-04-29 11:33:15 PM  

pueblonative: And the reason not to ban HOAs is. . .?


they have legitimate purposes.. we just need to make it the law that they cannot exceed those legitimate purposes as the poster just before you was saying.
 
2012-04-29 11:36:00 PM  
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marketingaficionado?_mSplash=1

I'm thinking this is the same Mark Spector. A marketing twat. What a surprise.
 
2012-04-29 11:38:12 PM  
We did this to a tenant in my Condo building this weekend.

In 6 years, she's been current on assessments for only 6 months. This was the third time we've had to use an attorney to collect fees from her and the last time, we almost got to eviction before she coughed up a $5,000 check. This time, she ignored all correspondence. So the Sheriff's came on Friday morning to boot her out over $6,000 in unpaid assessments. It was $7,000, but she had sent a check randomly a few weeks ago to the old Board President's home, I'm assuming to try and thwart what was already in motion.

While the locks are being changed, I get a call from our management company. He said she wants to stay and promised she'd get us a $3,500 cashiers check that afternoon and another for $1,500 on Monday. Since that would practically put her back in the black, we said sure. An hour later, she shows up with the $3,500 cashiers check.

If she had just called the attorney and asked to pay down half and arrange a payment plan, she'd have avoided this, as well as the additional $1,000+ in fees that will now be tacked on for the locksmith, Management Company and Lawyer. Obviously she had access to the money. But this is someone whose unit reeks of weed morning and night & has had their electricity and gas turned off over the last six months.

Before I lived in a Condo building, I'd have been appalled that this exists. But after dealing with this moron, I understand why the law exists. I not about to jack up assessments on the rest of the units so this freeloader can have their common elements covered at our expense. She's more than happy to work the system and screw whomever she can.
 
2012-04-29 11:38:33 PM  

Kazan: Mr. Shabooboo: Some of you have really weird ideas about older homes..Not every home older than 1990's is falling
apart and need new everything. My house is over 80. It's brick, not new house "brick" veneer on 1/3 of
the front side, ALL BRICK..The electricity works, the plumbing works, etc.. It's absurdly solid. Sure the
floors squeek..It's 80 years old..But at 160, I bet it's still here when the newer houses become unglued and
fall apart. As it was mentioned before. Most new houses in developments are thrown together and cheap.
At the height of the building boom, the new houses in my are were being thrown together so quickly
that they just seemed to appear. These are the same houses that went to pieces in 50mph wind.
Windows fell out, the ubiquitous tan siding flew, and garage doors blew in. The "Castles in a cornfield"
are just a veneer over poor construction. When all the buyers care about are granite counters, the "exclusive"
area, and a culda-sac, construction standards don't matter..

For me, I just view myself as a caretaker passing through my house..I try to improve it, keep it up and
live in it..I know it's going to be here long after I am..

how many amps is your electrical service, how about the siesmic building code where you are at (most places don't have to worry about that) i doubt you'd pass that. how about the chemicals in your paint, what materials were used in your floors?


not every old house is crap.. out here the ones that aren't crap cost obscene amounts.


200 Amp. 80's era re-wire in a new box with breakers. Plumbing was updated sometime in the 60's or 70's too, it's plastic..Seismic isn't really an issue..I have earthquake/subsidence insurance anyway.Paint is all
latex, my floors are mostly wood, pine, stained and polyurethane, the rest of the areas are tile. The
basement has a couple of very minor leaks when it when wind drives heavy rain against the house..But
i'm working on that..Most I ever get in is like a 1/2 measuring cup tops..And that's when we get like 3 inches
of heavy wind blown rain..
 
2012-04-29 11:43:12 PM  
I'd rather have neighbors with cars up on blocks in their front yards than live under an HOA that has the power to tell me not to put a car up on blocks in my front yard.

The organization that has the power to make other people do what you want them to has the power to make you do what other people want you to.
 
2012-04-29 11:44:12 PM  
I'm curious as to how the hoa could evict her tenant with 24 hour notice? Where is there legal standing to try to force a tenant to pay them rent when the lease was presumably not an agreement with the HOA? It was my understanding that in FL the law says you have to give 30 days notice to evict and that is after it goes through the court.

/the owner of the townhouse next to mine lost the place to foreclosure. The bank had to give the renters in there 30 days to vacate.
 
2012-04-29 11:44:46 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: 200 Amp


nice

Mr. Shabooboo: 80's era re-wire in a new box with breakers


so not quite modern 200 amp service.. but it should be good.

Mr. Shabooboo: Plumbing was updated sometime in the 60's or 70's too, it's plastic..Seismic isn't really an issue..I have earthquake/subsidence insurance anyway.Paint is all


plastic? probably PVC.

where are you at? most of the country is fortunate not to have to worry about seismic.

Mr. Shabooboo: latex, my floors are mostly wood, pine, stained and polyurethane, the rest of the areas are tile. The
basement has a couple of very minor leaks when it when wind drives heavy rain against the house..But
i'm working on that..Most I ever get in is like a 1/2 measuring cup tops..And that's when we get like 3 inches
of heavy wind blown rain..


sounds in pretty good condition.

if i wanted that house out here and an hour or less commute I'd need to drop $600k minimum
 
2012-04-29 11:48:32 PM  
If your dumb enough to buy into an HOA can't really feel sorry for you.
 
2012-04-29 11:54:46 PM  

cockgoeshere: "I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune.


Translation: I bought the "houses never decrease in value" schtick hook, line, and sinker, and am now butthurt that I overpaid by such a large amount for my house which is now completely under water, and I am going to take my anger out on those who didn't fall for this trap and are therefore paying much less.


PURE WIN^^
 
2012-04-29 11:54:57 PM  

Omnivorous: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

We'll leave the "willingly" aside. Our HOA recently banned VEGETABLES. But ignore that moranhood: an HOA is an unlimited financial liability against your property. If your HOA decides to persecute (your favorite minority), you are financial liable. Ours went after a homeowner over their farking trees --- and lost $1.000 per home in the court case.


I'll bet the HOA president was sick of getting tons of zucchini left on his doorstep every year.
 
2012-04-30 12:00:03 AM  
Ya'll seem to have made some wild assumptions about which house I was referring to.
 
2012-04-30 12:05:45 AM  
One more case of Hall Monitors Gone Mad.
 
2012-04-30 12:07:38 AM  

stuffy: If your dumb enough to buy into an HOA can't really feel sorry for you.


I imagine that folks like YOU are so stupid, that you can't even appreciate the stupidity of your own statement. If you live in a condo, there's a maintenance fee and rules of governance, etc... Apartments have similar restrictions, a house in a named subdivision - at least in my county, can't exist without an HOA, and if we don't have one, we're forced by municipal governments to get together as neighbors and appoint one or get tickets, which will lead to fines and ultimately forclosure by the county, and the same results as if we had HOA's in the first place.

But you wouldn't know anything about that crap would you. After all, I'm sure you live in co-op with some smelly hippies and underfed "vegetarian" chickens, where you bathe once a week and keep chickens for pets.

Retard. I'm no defender of HOA's believe me - I hate mine as much as the next guy, but like car insurance, income taxes, property taxes, vehicle registration and title surcharges, jury summonses, and soon health insurance, HOA dues are just part of living in the "Land of the Free".

Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen...
 
2012-04-30 12:11:58 AM  
This HOA appears to be a criminal enterprise.

RICO!
 
2012-04-30 12:12:49 AM  

ShabazKilla: For all the Florida bashers - I would refer you to a previous article about this development and HOA douchebag:
Link

"We were expecting a real nice, clean community," Spector said. "We'd moved from California, and we were expecting the planned communities to be similar to the planned communities we'd lived in in California."

California Nazi...figures.

And then this gem...
"These are the people who are going to move in and actually live in the community," Spector said.
"These are the people who are going to take care of the community. It doesn't matter if they had a $200,000 discount from what I paid."

What a difference four years makes huh


Isn't Florida just full of all the people the other states (and Canada) don't want anyways?
 
2012-04-30 12:13:56 AM  

RobertBruce: Was such a possibility in the contract? Then they should be upheld in court.
/same with mortgages


Yeah, I didn't RTFA long enough but if the buyers didn't read the contract and it's in there then fark 'em. I live in an "HOA" community, but our HOA membership fee is optional, cannot place a lein on my property, and hasn't done anything worse than telling people to mow their freakin yard every now and then, nothing like these ones you read about on FARK. Still, before I bought the place, I read the contract myself then paid an attorney to look it over and make sure there wasn't anything silly in there to surprise me later. If you plan on living there, you need to do your homework. No pity for those who don't.
 
2012-04-30 12:14:45 AM  
I'm in a POA (Hoa) that was established by Austin hippies in the 60s. There are just a few requirements (one shed, no oil drilling, no garbage dump, one boat visible) but they don't even really enforce it. The bylaws say that the fee is $35 a year so that is all they get aside from building permit fees and boat launch fees. We have a few parks and trails. One park is on waterfront land worth well over a million dollars. It is a steal compared to paying city taxes.

The alternative is summed up by a house not in the HOA where construction stopped after the housing crash. Someone bought it on auction and for the last 4 years it has been a junk yard. It is nothing but dried out weathered studs and RVs in the back. The county can't do anything because this crazy guy adds a new window or door every 6 months. The neighbors have no recourse because we believe in and have property rights. An HOA could have more flexibility in that situation and the guy camping in the RV wouldn't be allowed unlike with the county.

I hear a lot of you trashing HOAs and that is fine because some of them are horrible, but so are a lot of the cities I have dealt with. Cities can and do put liens on houses. They charge you for sidewalk clearing, special assessments, ordinance violations, zoning violations, parking regulations, snow removal, water, sewer, garbage, they write you a ticket if your lawn isn't mowed. Then they jack up your taxes and utilities every year... Most all of them waste millions on pet projects and silly half baked transportation ideas or corporate welfare. They have a system of zoning and permits with ample red tape and corruption. Frankly what is the difference between a city and a bad HOA?

I've lived in 4 cities and 1 HOA... I will take the HOA I picked any day.
 
2012-04-30 12:16:13 AM  

namegoeshere: In 2010, Spector was unapologetic about how the association is dealing with the challenge.

"I'm paying on a $400,000 mortgage when someone else walks in and pays $140,000 for the same house," Spector told the Tribune.
Translation: I bought the "houses never decrease in value" schtick hook, line, and sinker, and am now butthurt that I overpaid by such a large amount for my house which is now completely under water, and I am going to take my anger out on those who didn't fall for this trap and are therefore paying much less.


Sounds like he should buy one of his neighbor's foreclosed houses for 140K and mail the keys of his current house to his mortgage company. If he lives in the new place long enough, his credit will recover.
 
2012-04-30 12:19:32 AM  
Well, I read every single comment in this thread and I'm surprised that nobody mentioned this gem: "There is no legal requirement to notify a property owner when a lien has been imposed." The lien was placed, near as I can determine from the article, after the homeowner failed to pay her dues once shortly after her mother died. But rather than attempt to collect the missed payment directly and accept the fact that mistakes sometimes happen, the HOA decided to be passive-aggressive jerks about it and place a lien on her property and not bother to mention it to her since they didn't legally have to (which is BS in and of itself). She (the homeowner) even acknowledges that she owes them that money, but isn't willing to pay up as long as there are exorbitant extra penalties attached to it.
 
2012-04-30 12:26:01 AM  

MayContainHorseGluten: Isn't Florida just full of all the people the other states (and Canada) don't want anyways?


Yes.
 
2012-04-30 12:30:41 AM  
i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-30 12:38:47 AM  

MayContainHorseGluten: ShabazKilla: For all the Florida bashers - I would refer you to a previous article about this development and HOA douchebag:
Link

"We were expecting a real nice, clean community," Spector said. "We'd moved from California, and we were expecting the planned communities to be similar to the planned communities we'd lived in in California."

California Nazi...figures.

And then this gem...
"These are the people who are going to move in and actually live in the community," Spector said.
"These are the people who are going to take care of the community. It doesn't matter if they had a $200,000 discount from what I paid."

What a difference four years makes huh

Isn't Florida just full of all the people the other states (and Canada) don't want anyways?


It's called the land of the newlyweds and nearly deads for a reason. Plenty of military newlyweds wind up stationed there and the nearly deads keep showing up.

/born there to the military newlyweds
 
2012-04-30 12:47:31 AM  

jaytkay: Kazan: actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

Ewww, you mean socialize and talk to people?

Why do that when you have an HOA-protected enclave with cable TV and an Xbox.


Judging by the snout house in the article, you're probably right. This is an architectural style invented for people who fear or hate any human contact. Notice how the garage is the most prominent feature of the house: no front porch, you don't even see the front door from the street. This is the house for people who want to drive between home and work and interface with an airlock at each end so that they don't die from exposure to society.
 
2012-04-30 01:07:03 AM  

Xcott: jaytkay: Kazan: actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

Ewww, you mean socialize and talk to people?

Why do that when you have an HOA-protected enclave with cable TV and an Xbox.

Judging by the snout house in the article, you're probably right. This is an architectural style invented for people who fear or hate any human contact. Notice how the garage is the most prominent feature of the house: no front porch, you don't even see the front door from the street. This is the house for people who want to drive between home and work and interface with an airlock at each end so that they don't die from exposure to society.


It's a very condo-looking house as well. The garage is there, but there's absolutely no character to the house or the yard. No hedges, no trees, et cetera. Most of the people defending HOAs go on and on about hoarder types who turn their yards into garbage dumps. While this is a problem, it's not a problem that deserves giving all sorts of power over your property. Why anti-governmental types support this is especially baffling since it's just a government-by-proxy.

But this whole thing seems to be a fear of other people, which you describe brilliantly: all of these rules and regulations are couched in bullshiat hypotheticals. Yeah, you could get a crazy who packs their yard with old cars. But how often does that happen? Not enough to create a body that can ripoff your house. It's this kind of fear that has gotten America into plenty of shiat in the past forty years if not longer. Just because someone can happen doesn't mean we should start bolting everybody down. It's a sad, pathetic way to view the world. Not to mention it undercuts the same property rights that people claim they want to save.

What these HOAs seem to want is very uniform and sterile living environments. They want to push the suburban experience with a minimal effort at talking to people and actually dealing with anybody outside of a screen or a door.
 
2012-04-30 01:10:31 AM  
What this thread boils down to is this. . . . Some people are willing to sacrifice personal freedom to live in a newer home that doesn't have lead paint in it. Some people would rather drink the lead paint straight from the bucket than give up any personal freedom whatsoever. Does that about cover it?
 
2012-04-30 01:17:21 AM  

StormChaser: What this thread boils down to is this. . . . Some people are willing to sacrifice personal freedom to live in a newer home that doesn't have lead paint in it. Some people would rather drink the lead paint straight from the bucket than give up any personal freedom whatsoever. Does that about cover it?


There's a third group that will do either, provided they don't have to buy the paint. These are the ones who generally do what the HOA wants but then biatch about it on Facebook.
 
2012-04-30 01:26:19 AM  
I admit that the it's a poorly written article, but the anti-HOA derp and ignorance in this thread is astounding. I don't even know where to begin.

Nutshell: If you don't pay your HOA fees on time the HOA can place a lien on your home, and subsequently foreclose on your property. Doesn't mean they own the property outright, the bank is still the primary lien holder. But the HOA can now kick you out, hopefully before you strip the property, and then rent the house out to cover delinquent HOA fees. Happened to my next door neighbor last year. They stopped paying their mortgage AND their HOA fees, essentially leaving everyone else who was paying on time to pick up their slack. So they got the boot, like others in the neighborhood, and rightly so.

Yes, there are HOA horror stories, but for the most part, living in an HOA is not the bad deal Fark know-it-alls make it out to be. HOA fees combined cover landscaping, maintenance of the common grounds, basic cable, security, clubhouse and rec areas, water sprinkler systems, etc. Stuff that would cost the homeowner more if they had to pay individually.
 
2012-04-30 01:37:04 AM  
As an architect there is no way in hell that I would build a house in an HOA that did anything more than provide for assistance in mowing lawns in case of injury and holding an annual Christmas lights celebration. More than likely I'll wind up with a ranch anyway so fark your tinpot dictator HOA bullshiat. I won't even design the houses knowing there will be a naziesque HOA involved. I flat out refuse to have my name associated with fascism.
 
2012-04-30 01:44:04 AM  
There are plenty of nice neighborhoods from the 1900-2000s that don't have HOA.

You are better off buying an old house and ripping it down and putting up a new one instead of moving into a HOA development.

I hear nothing but bad things from my friends who live in them. One got a call about being in violation because they had mud on the side of their home from a storm and were out of town and were told they had a few days to get it off or face a fine. Others get fines over fences not being painted every X amount of years, things in their yards that are not unsightly but because some HOA power hungry HOA president doesn't like it, they fine them, etc.

America wasn't founded on this shiat...HOA are evil (and to the person that says it's the ideal tea-party place, you're a ass clown..this would go completely against what the republican tea party stands for..which is government like control over a part of your life).
 
2012-04-30 01:49:08 AM  
Oh, in VA, at least in the condo I lived in an rented from an owner, you cannot evict nor sieze the property due to unpaid condo fees/HOA fees. The only thing they can do is stop you from using communal property like the common room, swimming pool, etc.

My owner was some guy from China and his son ran the property but was pocketing the rent checks. I got a call one day about something like $3k in condo fees being late and I basically told them don't look at me. They were cool about it and said they just had to cut off the pool use and fitness room and TV/Business room. I asked them about other things and they said they had no power to do anything in the unit nor to the renter due to VA laws. In fact, due to the housing crash, most states now have laws that require even foreclosed units to finish out their leases so the renter has some control/safety.
 
2012-04-30 01:55:44 AM  
I bought my home, cash, for $37k. Hour commute to downtown, and it was built in 1988 with 2 bed/2bath with a basement on an acre of land. People who bought theirs for 400k and spend 30 years paying it off.....lol
 
2012-04-30 01:57:10 AM  
The State of Florida needs to step in and assert itself.

HOAs that go insane with backing from local politicians and law enforcement are digging a deeper hole for tbe real estate market there.

I sure wouldnt buy in a development that took possession of houses illegally. In fact, without legal protection, I might not buy in that state.
 
2012-04-30 01:57:21 AM  
Oh yeah I forgot to mention, no HOA but the neighborhood is clean enough that you'd think there was one. And the house is nice, solid, cedar siding with a 2-car garage and other shiat. Its not a pos, it sold for $150k in 2006.
 
2012-04-30 02:03:15 AM  

JC22: America wasn't founded on this shiat...HOA are evil (and to the person that says it's the ideal tea-party place, you're a ass clown..this would go completely against what the republican tea party stands for..which is government like control over a part of your life).


i'm not that guy, but I think you are an 'ass-clown', as you so elegantly put it, if that is your understanding of the tea party.

'government like control over a part of your life' is exactly what they espouse. just not from a federal government. make no mistake, those people are authoritarians to an extreme - they just don't want it coming from a centralized power. they want their brand of fascism, which is far more regional and local in nature. as it is now, things like jim crow laws, womens rights, abortion access, criminalization of gays, criminalization of athieism and non-christains faiths, religious law, etc. (all things official tea party leaders and/or candidates have lobbied for recently, btw) are kept from happening by a 'meddling' federal government. thats what they want gone, so they can go back to the middle ages wherever they hold sway.

make no mistake, they are fascists, just grassroots fascists. hoa's are their utopian dream.
 
2012-04-30 02:03:47 AM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


You go 50 feet down the road into non-HOA area and guarandamtee there is a goddamn car on blocks within 10 houses. Then another. Then a bunch off shiat.

Weird!
 
2012-04-30 02:03:47 AM  
I may have old plumbing and a foundation built sometime before 1900, but damn if it doesn't feel good not to have anyone but the village board making rules. The only one they've made that I object to is the 'no livestock' rule, BUT, considering many people have yards as tiny as mine, it does make sense. I just want 1-2 chickens so I wouldn't have to buy eggs, but I can live without as long as no ego maniac tries to tell me I have to treat my lawn or something...
 
2012-04-30 02:05:32 AM  

MayContainHorseGluten: Isn't Florida just full of all the people the other states (and Canada) don't want anyways?


That had enough of a nut to get an apartment or a house. Then there is rich and trash.
 
2012-04-30 02:23:09 AM  

namatad: The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.


Exactly how does a HOA prevent that scenario?
 
2012-04-30 02:27:13 AM  

remotecody: I'm in a POA (Hoa) that was established by Austin hippies in the 60s. There are just a few requirements (one shed, no oil drilling, no garbage dump, one boat visible) but they don't even really enforce it. The bylaws say that the fee is $35 a year so that is all they get aside from building permit fees and boat launch fees. We have a few parks and trails. One park is on waterfront land worth well over a million dollars. It is a steal compared to paying city taxes.

The alternative is summed up by a house not in the HOA where construction stopped after the housing crash. Someone bought it on auction and for the last 4 years it has been a junk yard. It is nothing but dried out weathered studs and RVs in the back. The county can't do anything because this crazy guy adds a new window or door every 6 months. The neighbors have no recourse because we believe in and have property rights. An HOA could have more flexibility in that situation and the guy camping in the RV wouldn't be allowed unlike with the county.

I hear a lot of you trashing HOAs and that is fine because some of them are horrible, but so are a lot of the cities I have dealt with. Cities can and do put liens on houses. They charge you for sidewalk clearing, special assessments, ordinance violations, zoning violations, parking regulations, snow removal, water, sewer, garbage, they write you a ticket if your lawn isn't mowed. Then they jack up your taxes and utilities every year... Most all of them waste millions on pet projects and silly half baked transportation ideas or corporate welfare. They have a system of zoning and permits with ample red tape and corruption. Frankly what is the difference between a city and a bad HOA?

I've lived in 4 cities and 1 HOA... I will take the HOA I picked any day.


It was hard, but I found a huge ass house made after 2000, in a nice development, 5 blocks, one entrance, each block is a cul de sac . I've had no problems. The neighbors seem like they try to outdo each other on plantings, everything is neat. If a garbage truck spills garbage accidentally (one of those automatic ones), the neighbors clean it up. No HOA.

Sure, the town will come down for not mowing your grass, but only after it passes 14 inches (most in my neighborhood mow at least twice a week). In my sisters in-laws house less than a mile away, it's something like 5 inches, plus you can't have a certain amount of weeds per area. I've got a ton of clover in my lawn, it's a biatch to get rid of, but I don't have to worry about being fined for it.

I put up a fence, no permit needed, they needed to get approval on style, height, color etc. They bought a wood shed, they had to sell it without opening the box because the HOA only wants steel or composite.We can put up a shed with a $50 permit and it just has to be 5 feet from the fence. Even then, most of the neighbors don't bother getting the permit, and the town doesn't bother them (and yes, they do come around to check, they just re-evaluated everyone's house for tax purposes, but they don't bother you)

My house can be any color I want, same with the neighbors. Guess what, there are no pink or purple houses anywhere. And worrying about abandoned house. The house I bought was empty for 2 years, the neighbors took turns mowing it and keeping it neat.

Get this, most people are not savages. There is no need for an HOA,

chewielouie: I admit that the it's a poorly written article, but the anti-HOA derp and ignorance in this thread is astounding. I don't even know where to begin.

Nutshell: If you don't pay your HOA fees on time the HOA can place a lien on your home, and subsequently foreclose on your property. Doesn't mean they own the property outright, the bank is still the primary lien holder. But the HOA can now kick you out, hopefully before you strip the property, and then rent the house out to cover delinquent HOA fees. Happened to my next door neighbor last year. They stopped paying their mortgage AND their HOA fees, essentially leaving everyone else who was paying on time to pick up their slack. So they got the boot, like others in the neighborhood, and rightly so.

Yes, there are HOA horror stories, but for the most part, living in an HOA is not the bad deal Fark know-it-alls make it out to be. HOA fees combined cover landscaping, maintenance of the common grounds, basic cable, security, clubhouse and rec areas, water sprinkler systems, etc. Stuff that would cost the homeowner more if they had to pay individually.


Guess what? If my neighbor stops paying their mortgage (and we don't have fees), it doesn't affect me one bit. And why should it.

What you live in is called a commune. I don't want to share a clubhouse or a pool, if I want one, I'll put it in my yard. Security?, you pay a schmuck to patrol around the neighborhood? Are you that afraid of life. If someone wants to get you or break into your house, they'll find a way. Probably while your schmuck patrolman is writing a ticket to your neighbor for having his grass too high.
 
2012-04-30 02:29:46 AM  

cman: Wow, thats insane.

Why are HOA still allow to operate with such extreme powers? This is something you would see in a communist system with common ownership, not a country that prides itself upon private ownership and due process of law


At least here in Indiana, HOAs were set up to keep out Blacks. They had to strike that from the covenants back in the day, but it is EXACTLY the type of mentality that continues in HOAs. It's all about keeping out "undesirables" who lower property values. That "undesirables" has been redefined really makes no difference to me. It's the same fascist thinking, that private profits and property of the powerful legally override the rights of those with less power. Because our Constitution doesn't permit local governments to operate that way, HOAs assume this role with the blessing of local government.

The very concept of the HOA demonstrates that the extreme right and the extreme left, when left to their own devices, are pretty much the same to the man on the street. Because HOAs are not officially government entities, "due process" with them is far different than "due process" as afforded by the Constitution.

It's one of those things that I thought we'd addressed decades ago when the US Supreme Court ruled that someone cannot sign away their Constitutional rights through a contract, but I've learned as an adult that "private organizations" can literally demand anything in their contracts and have it upheld regardless of what limitations have been placed on contract law in the past. Why they even bother teaching Civics in high school is beyond me, nothing taught there actually matches reality. If elected government can't do something, an unelected, unofficial government is appointed to get around the restriction.
 
2012-04-30 02:31:41 AM  
I've been listening to the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T LIVE THERE!!!" excuses for HOA for years as they get ever increasingly more abusive. HOAs should be illegal, period, end of freaking story. It's your property, not theirs.
 
2012-04-30 02:36:14 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: As an architect there is no way in hell that I would build a house in an HOA that did anything more than provide for assistance in mowing lawns in case of injury and holding an annual Christmas lights celebration. More than likely I'll wind up with a ranch anyway so fark your tinpot dictator HOA bullshiat. I won't even design the houses knowing there will be a naziesque HOA involved. I flat out refuse to have my name associated with fascism.


Hey how are you about designing non-primary homes with geothermal heating? No really. Found non HOA land (but with winter road maintenance association fee of $18 in Oregon I've been talking to a couple realtors about. This would be a while, like 7-8 years so I have time to build. Some already do it but the heat next to natural springs I'm looking at is 300 feet down, and I hope I'm not beaten to the punch But can you design natural springs into that for heat and water?
 
2012-04-30 02:37:24 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: MayContainHorseGluten: Isn't Florida just full of all the people the other states (and Canada) don't want anyways?

That had enough of a nut to get an apartment or a house. Then there is rich and trash.


I'm not following. Please explain further.
 
2012-04-30 02:43:46 AM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


Wait till this jackwad's little kingdom ends up becoming a neighborhood mostly full of empty houses. He's just gonna have a ball when all the copper thieves and meth labbers start showing up.
 
2012-04-30 02:47:17 AM  
I predict that soon, we're going to start reading reports of HOA members being shot and killed. Possibly of their own homes being burned down by arsonists.

You muck with a person's home and push them into a corner with a complicated legal maze, they're going to go ballistic, especially if they're under stress already. They're not going to bother with lawyers. You can have security cameras all over your home and they can be taken out easily. Pi$$ off a person enough and they just won't care.

I can tell you that there are times when revenge is so, so SWEET! I've known quiet, nice folks who, when their back was pushed against the wall, came out like Tigers. They often didn't care if their actions took them down as well.

This guy is making himself a target and someone is going to aim for the bull's-eye.
 
2012-04-30 02:50:08 AM  

jmr61: I've never seen a gun at a closing.


Because violence is the only form of coercion.

Seriously, what a moronic argument.
 
2012-04-30 02:54:18 AM  
photo.goodreads.com

That's right, a horror novel about an HOA.

/Great book
 
2012-04-30 02:56:38 AM  

pedobearapproved: grimlock1972: Even more evidence why HOAs need to either be severely reigned in or preferably be banned.

They have a reason for existing. Usually it's so you can't park your meth trailer in the back of the house, hoist up a nazi flag, or something more realistic like you have a lake that needs yearly maintenance because you don't want it flooding the neighborhood right next door if the dam fails. The idea that they can EVER kick you out of your own house is what needs to be banned. Don't pay the fees get ding on your credit and get taken to court, not get kicked out of your place.

HOAs aren't all evil


And why can't those things be taken care of with zoning laws?

Oh yeah, gubmint be ebil. Forgot.
 
2012-04-30 02:57:43 AM  

ChaffedTitty: All things considered, maybe this was the intent of Florida's "stand your ground law".

You want my house? Come get it motherfarker.

[www.tactical-life.com image 425x283]


I agree, I think this is what that law was intended for.
 
2012-04-30 03:02:37 AM  

remotecody: Frankly what is the difference between a city and a bad HOA?


The city is accountable. HOAs, especially the ones owned by the builder or bank with the goal of keeping values high, are not. A city is subject to a whole lot more restriction on what they do than a private corporation is- you can sue them under clauses in the federal or state constitution. The city is also run by professionals with expertise in the area who know how to develop rules and regulations that take into account your rights, things going wrong (ya know, the rule that says lawns have to be watered being applied in a drought), so on and so forth. They're working in the public interest, not in the interest of dicking people over who don't conform to their ideals. HOAs are often run by busybodies with no training whatsoever and a dictatorial fantasy.

It's a vast difference.
 
2012-04-30 03:05:26 AM  

Rik01: I predict that soon, we're going to start reading reports of HOA members being shot and killed. Possibly of their own homes being burned down by arsonists.


I bet the Pinkertons, sorry, the HOA's, will be having people who fight them burned out of their homes first.

I actually seem to recall reading it had already happened a couple times. pretty easy to understand actually; HOA gets sued, it costs the HOA, to which the cost is distributed between all the rest of the neighbors. How far does it have to go? Each neighbor gets 2000, 4000, 6000 in charges to pay off an extended legal fight. How much does it take before they can't take anymore? They start seeing the person doing the suing as the enemy, costing them their savings and being an open-ended liability on the HOA, which will often prevent their houses from selling.
Doesn't take an HOA telling people to go try to run the victims out of the area, as they let the legal costs run up the neighbors will just do it for them.
 
2012-04-30 03:15:39 AM  
remember the HOA a couple years back that told the guy looking at buying a house that he could park his pickup truck in his driveway? he did, and then one moron came back some time afterward and said he couldn't do it. they kept taking him to court, and he kept winning. they spent OVER $300,000 in HOA money fighting it over two years, then lost $187,000 on top of it to reimburse him for his legal costs.

his neighbors, and iirc there weren't more than a few dozen, have to pick up the cost. thats well into five figures per household. no one burned that guy out, but i am really surprised. his suit may well have cost others in the area their homes, and while it wasn't his fault, guess who was getting the blame from them the whole time. i can easily see stuff like that getting out of control.
 
2012-04-30 03:42:55 AM  
"Mark Spector"

ibethejewsdidthis.jpg
 
2012-04-30 03:48:03 AM  
As a rural type, reading shiat like this is downright bizarre. Out here something like that may well end guns blazing.

Had a mortgage once, ended in jungle mail. We bought our current lot, paid cash. We built our house ourselves, paid for building materials out of pocket. We pay our property tax, but that's all we're paying outside of utilities. Try to move us out and you'll be seeing the business end of a boomstick. No covenants on our lot, no zoning restrictions, no one to tell us what we can and can't do. I don't mean to get on a soapbox (like I just did), but I can't see how people voluntarily enter contracts with an HOA and risk putting up with shiat like TFA.

\from my cold dead hands
\\blah blah blah
 
2012-04-30 03:56:07 AM  
I recall the incident about 10 years ago where a guy set his own house on fire and killed himself after an armed standoff with police after an eviction attempt gone awry.

It seems that the HMO goons branded him a child molester, based on the "evidence" that in his house he collected Disney videos and had a Disney toy collection. To them, that was proof enough that he was a pedofork and he had to go. From that point on, they tormented the poor man mercilessly for months and then made a move to take possession of his house.

Yep, because of some batsh*t insane HMO tryant, a man's life was ruined and now he's dead.

No mention on whether the HMO ever was held responsible for this atrocity. Chances are they got away with it. HMOs always get away with it.
 
2012-04-30 03:58:54 AM  
Home owners associations are made up of dump-gutted, barrel shaped, menopausal bitterness farmers who are peeping out the window every day to see if your lawn is too overgrown. They are Hitlers and pissbags and disgruntled, skeevy little pricks ad that's why they wanted to be on the HOA board to begin with. If you actually think you'll "live better" or that they're keeping people from putting cars up on blocks in the cul de sacs or stopping people in lowriders from throwing drunken, 109 dBA barbecues on the median, you're stupid and gullible and a pansy and you should have known better than to sell your property control to a bunch of bed wetting ninnies, and Napoleon complex nincompoops.
 
2012-04-30 04:41:01 AM  

Bunnyhat: They know what they're getting into.


farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2012-04-30 04:55:05 AM  

jaytkay: archichris: HOA's are in no way a conservative dream.

The last thing a conservative wants is MORE GOVERNMENT.

HOAs are private entities. Also known as not-government entities.

/ Conservatives don't understand fundamental concepts of government and the economy.
// I am shocked, shocked


Government is other people who have authority over your life and property.

An HOA has authority over your property. How is that not government? Because you apply a label to it to call it something else so you can make it not the thing you love and adore so you can attach it to your enemies and make it hateful?

Gosh I am SO surprised that a liberal is using deceit and labels to obfuscate an issue.

Just remember kiddies, it aint terrorism caused by religious extremists who hate us because we work hard, noooooo, its a man caused disaster, which is a label we also apply to global warming, so see, we are causing global warming and that makes us just as bad as the terrorists.
 
2012-04-30 05:03:19 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

Wait till this jackwad's little kingdom ends up becoming a neighborhood mostly full of empty houses. He's just gonna have a ball when all the copper thieves and meth labbers start showing up.


It all changes when some smarmy little asshole convinces some friends to vote them into control of the HOA. Then they have the authority to do all the things the current HOA doesnt bother doing, like putting liens on your property. I've even seen a neighborhood association go bad like that. We are talking about a group with no legal authority to do anything, just neighbors who agreed 40 years ago to work together making the neighborhood better. And all it took was one person obsessed with controlling their neighbors and poof, three years of anger and bitterness that nearly ruined the organization. And not that it matters but yes the person was a rabid democrat, a licensed social worker, union member, etc......in the last year of her 'reign' she was walking the neighborhood with a clip board and camera writing down code violations on our homes. She would send you a copy of the letter she was sending to the city with photos of your peeling paint and leaky gutters. Absolutely went insane on the small amount of power she had. Spend the budget on traffic studies and parking studies and then tried to use the results as evidence that the city needed to remove all on street parking in our neighborhood for safety reasons. No, she did not own a car, she believed in buses.

Just farking crazy.
 
2012-04-30 05:08:03 AM  

archichris: Government is other people who have authority over your life and property.

An HOA has authority over your property. How is that not government?


lol funny.

Nice touch veering off on a rant about Muslims and climate change, too. Amazing.
 
2012-04-30 06:20:14 AM  

CliChe Guevara: Honest Bender: CliChe Guevara: rNightOwl2255: Everyone that purchased a home covered by an HOA did so willingly.

Not always.

Nowhere in your tl;dr rant did you explain how your folks were forced into the HOA.

Then you didn't read it.

It is treu they were in a different HOA, one that they didn't just join it, they helped found it.


Ok, so I did read your post, they weren't forced into an HOA, they helped found one. Got it. So... explain again how they were forced into an HOA?
 
2012-04-30 06:28:31 AM  

Kazan: Nuclear Monk: I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.

i close on a house in 2 days.. the HoA rules are nearly non-existent. and i'll make sure to get on the board when we gain control.

unless you have cash-on-hand it is impossible to get a new home without an HoA. and for electrical, structural and chemical reasons i don't trust anything older than 2004. (and i don't trust anything 2006 till the crash)


I'm in the process of purchasing a townhouse with an HOA with 5% down, so I'm getting a kick out of this.
 
2012-04-30 06:33:45 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: It's nothing a few feet of chain, a couple gallons of gasoline and a match can't solve.

/it's like C4 but with the option to roast hot dogs


Just make sure you let the gas burn off completely before cooking over it. No sense in ruining the hot dog.
 
2012-04-30 06:44:45 AM  

Intoxoman: namatad: Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

I have lived in a condo for 15+ years. A condo association is required. common roof, sidewalk, front door, walls, drains, water, etc ...
Makes total sense. Assuming that the board keeps the reserves in shape and doesnt run crazy spending money on BS.

The down side of NOT having a HOA is jerk moves, turns house into a crack den, lowers property values, everyone moves away, jerk buys property cheap, fixes everything up, makes a killing.
LOL

I'm one of those jerks who buy property to fix it and sell. I did not turn the place into a crack den first. The previous owners did not either though it was far from nice inside. So I'm a jerk for putting $20k+ into making it a livable house again. And I (and many others who do this) do much of the labor myself. Your're farking lucky jerks like us fix these houses. My first fix-n-flip goes on sale next week. Yea I'll make money but not killing. Jerk


Hey dumbass. You'll note that right away you excluded yourself from what he had said by saying you don't devalue properties first. Maybe next time you'll read. Hardly do I think he takes issue with people who fix up an ailing property for sale.
 
2012-04-30 07:50:31 AM  

archichris: a liberal is using deceit and labels to obfuscate an issue.

Just remember kiddies, it aint terrorism caused by religious extremists who hate us because we work hard, noooooo, its a man caused disaster, which is a label we also apply to global warming, so see, we are causing global warming and that makes us just as bad as the terrorists


What you are smoking
.. care to share ?
 
2012-04-30 07:55:50 AM  

Dahnkster: No HOA for me!

'Fort building' as a child is now a survival skill.


I see you only hold 2 Ph.D's. Sorry pal. You're not qualified to have a job or a home. Why? Well see, we ruined the previous generation's chances of ever retiring in their lifetime by destroying their 401k - a plan that we devised to get these people to give us back their hard earned money! Then we treated it like our own little playpen and wasted it away on shoddy investments and perks for our buddies. Completely legal - since none of us actually went to jail!

So you see, corporations are people too! Evil, twisted, spiteful, wicked, rotten people... but people. So vote for our buddy since we know the jobs carrot makes all you box dwellers crazy.

Sincerely,
Mr Rich Greedyass
 
2012-04-30 07:59:44 AM  

Void_Beavis: Dahnkster: No HOA for me!

'Fort building' as a child is now a survival skill.

I see you only hold 2 Ph.D's. Sorry pal. You're not qualified to have a job or a home. Why? Well see, we ruined the previous generation's chances of ever retiring in their lifetime by destroying their 401k - a plan that we devised to get these people to give us back their hard earned money! Then we treated it like our own little playpen and wasted it away on shoddy investments and perks for our buddies. Completely legal - since none of us actually went to jail!

So you see, corporations are people too! Evil, twisted, spiteful, wicked, rotten people... but people. So vote for our buddy since we know the jobs carrot makes all you box dwellers crazy.

Sincerely,
Mr Rich Greedyass


i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-30 08:18:30 AM  
About seven years ago me and the Missus bought a house next door to a bunch of condos that were just in the final phase of being built and sold.

Our house needed work; it hadn't been updated or maintained for awhile and was in pretty sad shape, but it had "good bones" as they say. It wasn't hard to notice the certain smugness about them when they saw me out there in the hot sun mowing the lawn or doing landscaping.

A few years ago it was discovered that the first home had never been hooked up to the town sewer; all the waste was just going to a pipe that ended. I was in the yard putting in the patio when the town vehicle came up and stapled the "Condemned" sign to the door. One of the families whom were from India and had lived there nine months packed everything up and just left it; they want back to India. The other family and the HOA had to fork out 100k to have the living rooms dug up and the sewer pipe attached.

I finished the patio around this time and enjoyed sitting out there in front of the firepit drinking beer and watching them congregate in the evenings in the road and try to figure out where they would get 100k from.

A few weeks later they managed to find the money to have a landscaper come in and plant a line of trees between my patio and them. So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.
 
2012-04-30 08:21:11 AM  

Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.


Your little paradise can disappear like Keyser Söze and its replacement can force you to tear down those sheds and start mucking about in every other aspect of property management.

Sleep well.
 
2012-04-30 08:26:31 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No offense, but you're mentally retarded if you think the only options are apartments, underpasses, or HOA neighborhoods. The vast majority of houses for sale are in non-deed-restricted communities. People are attracted to the "good houses" in HOAs for the same reason they're attracted to religion: it makes them feel safe and special, until they realize that they're unable to pick and choose the specific details of the religion/HOA rules to serve their particular tastes/interests. Then they get all pissy and biatch on the internet.

If you don't want to abide by HOA rules, don't live in an HOA neighborhood. It's really that simple. Sorry, but, "I like the idea of no trailers on the front lawn, so I bought in a deed-restricted community, but I hate the idea of mandatory mowings, so I hate my HOA boo hooooo" is a farce.


You are wrong, plain and simple. As a practical matter, in this area (Northern Virginia, near DC), if you want to buy a decently priced home, you're going to be in an HOA. It's as simple as that. Are there alternatives? Maybe in your area, but not around here. And since the significant number of jobs that fit my education/skills are located in this area, it isn't practical to move.
 
2012-04-30 08:40:29 AM  
Around here you are kinda stuck with an HOA anywhere with newish houses worth living in. But, I hear very few horror stories.

The only run in I ever had was when I was sick. I managed, in short order, to get West Nile followed by Staph. Needless to say I was sick as hell. When I was home just moving from bed to the couch was a chore. Mowing was completely out of the question and not exactly on my mind. I lived alone except for my 4 year old son, and I have zero family here other than him.

The HOA called code compliance and they came by. In that town code compliance is actually the police. He was very sympathetic but told me if he came back in 3 days and it wasn't mowed he'd have to cite me, but he would give me the 3 days. I was about to try to find a service to mow it when I heard a mower start up. The neighbor had sent his kid to mow it. To this day I don't know if he was told what was up and felt sorry for me or just hated living next door to the lawn from hell, but he took care of it for me.

I never heard another peep from the HOA the whole time I lived there.
 
2012-04-30 08:46:54 AM  
One of my friends bought a bank repo home. 4,500 sq. ft, 3 level McMansion for $235,000. Everyone else in the neighborhood has paid $450-500,000 for their homes. Their HOA harasses them, that's really the only way to describe what they do to my friends. Every week they are in their yard inspecting the fence, inspecting the rock garden, quite literally measuring the lawn. They've been given warning for having 7 weeds in their rock garden. Seven. They counted them and writ them up for it. They wrote them up for the yard not being edged within parameters or the grass being half an inch too tall, window dressings not being the correct shade of 'off-white'. They just try to make life miserable for my friends because they got their house 50% off and it brought the market for their neighborhood down. He drives an Acura, not a BMW or Mercedes like everyone else in the neighborhood, so he's the scum of the neighborhood.
 
2012-04-30 08:51:02 AM  
"You know how we're doing it, Manuel. We're stealing it," -Prof
 
2012-04-30 09:05:16 AM  

archichris: And not that it matters but yes the person was a rabid democrat, a licensed social worker, union member, etc


But you bothered to take the time to mention it anyway, Mister Fox News.
 
2012-04-30 09:10:16 AM  

Bucky Katt: This HOA appears to be a criminal enterprise.

RICO!


Suavé

/a joke for we older farkers
 
2012-04-30 09:26:04 AM  
$10 says all the "OMG you are such an idiot for buying a property with an HOA!!" people either rent or live in mom's basement (or maybe in the sticks in rare cases). They've promised themselves that when they finally get that promotion to assistant manager at Burger King and get their own place it won't have some tyrannical HOA, no sir. They know better than everyone else and well easily be able to find a place without one.

Turns out kids it is pretty hard to have a place that doesn't have an HOA in the city or suburbs. They are just real popular. If you live in a condo, which is also popular these days on account of more housing units in less space, they are mandatory because you have to have something to deal with the common areas. So if you are saying "No HOAs," you immediately write off any condos. Then you discover that most neighbourhoods have one. Low end, high end, doesn't really matter, they all seem to have them. Your options become extremely limited.
 
2012-04-30 09:33:25 AM  

66dude: Kazan: Nuclear Monk: I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.

i close on a house in 2 days.. the HoA rules are nearly non-existent. and i'll make sure to get on the board when we gain control.

unless you have cash-on-hand it is impossible to get a new home without an HoA. and for electrical, structural and chemical reasons i don't trust anything older than 2004. (and i don't trust anything 2006 till the crash)

I'm in the process of purchasing a townhouse with an HOA with 5% down, so I'm getting a kick out of this.


i close on a fully detached craftsmen-style single family house with a very minimalistic HoA tommorow.
 
2012-04-30 09:36:57 AM  

SharkTrager: Around here you are kinda stuck with an HOA anywhere with newish houses worth living in. But, I hear very few horror stories.

The only run in I ever had was when I was sick. I managed, in short order, to get West Nile followed by Staph. Needless to say I was sick as hell. When I was home just moving from bed to the couch was a chore. Mowing was completely out of the question and not exactly on my mind. I lived alone except for my 4 year old son, and I have zero family here other than him.

The HOA called code compliance and they came by. In that town code compliance is actually the police. He was very sympathetic but told me if he came back in 3 days and it wasn't mowed he'd have to cite me, but he would give me the 3 days. I was about to try to find a service to mow it when I heard a mower start up. The neighbor had sent his kid to mow it. To this day I don't know if he was told what was up and felt sorry for me or just hated living next door to the lawn from hell, but he took care of it for me.

I never heard another peep from the HOA the whole time I lived there.


Your neighbor sounds pretty chill. Lucky break there.

That said, since when does the officer have to cite you? They rarely have an actual obligation to do much of anything.
 
2012-04-30 09:37:48 AM  

Skarekrough: So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.


don't be a douche
 
2012-04-30 09:39:06 AM  

Jefepato: That said, since when does the officer have to cite you?


most cities have codes about grass height because an unkept yard is actually a refuge for disease carrying rodents. because of that many of them have it as a must-cite.
 
2012-04-30 09:46:19 AM  
Get this, most people are not savages. There is no need for an HOA,

I think you fail to understand that something needs to exist to provide common use areas in the absence of a city or village. Without my HOA my hood wouldn't have parks, trails, or a boat ramp. They have a pool and a clubhouse as well but the point is that they provide these things for cheaper than a city can (I pay $35 per year and another $40 for a boat launch permit, the $35 is set in the deed, if anything we pay too little). The city is an unrestrained nightmare and money pit. My HOA, the one I read the deed for before buying, can't really do much. I can paint anything any color I want. Plant anything I want. I can tear my house down and live in a trailer if I still only have one main structure and one shed. It is a private way of getting some city like features. Some of them are ridiculous but most of them are trying to find a way to have parks and stuff without the city.

The city is accountable. HOAs, especially the ones owned by the builder or bank with the goal of keeping values high, are not.

Let me laugh for about 100 years if you think cities are accountable. The only time I ever ended up in court for something I was doing on my property was when I lived in a city. If my HOA f-s with me and the law is on my side, I'll take care of it, I'll hire a lawyer and get it handled. I would rather have the county government and courts as a neutral party to a dispute between my HOA and me any day. You can't fight city hall is a phrase that has a history.
 
2012-04-30 09:55:36 AM  

Kazan: 66dude: Kazan: Nuclear Monk: I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.

i close on a house in 2 days.. the HoA rules are nearly non-existent. and i'll make sure to get on the board when we gain control.

unless you have cash-on-hand it is impossible to get a new home without an HoA. and for electrical, structural and chemical reasons i don't trust anything older than 2004. (and i don't trust anything 2006 till the crash)

I'm in the process of purchasing a townhouse with an HOA with 5% down, so I'm getting a kick out of this.

i close on a fully detached craftsmen-style single family house with a very minimalistic HoA tommorow.


Nice! Mine is an attached end unit single family house built in 2007 that overlooks a golf course. It is probably the cheapest townhouse in the 16-unit development. The only thing that the HOA does is mow the lawn, plow the driveways and "street", and save up money for any roof replacement that could occur. I had a chance to visit the new place several times, just to see what kind of cars are in their driveways and garages. Mostly economy to mid-sized cars so far, like a Prius, a Ford Fusion, a Chevy Malibu. I did see a cheap new Mercedes. I think I'm in good company :)
 
2012-04-30 10:02:13 AM  

Jefepato: That said, since when does the officer have to cite you? They rarely have an actual obligation to do much of anything.


To paraphrase Bill Cosby: "Parents The Police don't want Justice, they want Quiet"

They'd cite him just to keep the HOA from pestering them.
 
2012-04-30 10:07:05 AM  
I'm not even sure that HOAs exist in the UK. I think you'd have to go out of your way to be subject to their ridiculousness.

Ha ha.

Any my neighbours help each other out rather than judge each other or call in violations of grass height.
 
2012-04-30 10:08:50 AM  
Here in Nevada, all new housing developments are required by law to have an HOA.

Also, you can't sue an HOA in civil court. You have to go to the Ombudsman, run by the real estate division, which is in bed with the property management companies, which run the HOAs.

These laws were written by HOA lawyers and passed through the legislature by senators who had cushy side jobs working for HOAs.

It's completely corrupt, at all levels.
 
2012-04-30 10:11:39 AM  
I have no experience with HOAs, so I have a question.

For all the HOAs that "went bad", it seems to me that there was a chance to prevent it or fix it in the early stages. If you're in an HOA, doesn't it kind of behoove you to make sure it stays the type of HOA you want?

/not a troll
//honest question
 
2012-04-30 10:15:54 AM  

66dude: Nice! Mine is an attached end unit single family house built in 2007 that overlooks a golf course. It is probably the cheapest townhouse in the 16-unit development. The only thing that the HOA does is mow the lawn, plow the driveways and "street", and save up money for any roof replacement that could occur. I had a chance to visit the new place several times, just to see what kind of cars are in their driveways and garages. Mostly economy to mid-sized cars so far, like a Prius, a Ford Fusion, a Chevy Malibu. I did see a cheap new Mercedes. I think I'm in good company :)


our HoA has some very basic rules, and a silly Architectural Approval Council or whatever. but once the builder transfers control to the owners i'm going to try to make sure to get on the Board and just stonewall any attempts at new rule making.
 
2012-04-30 10:18:33 AM  
For all the HOAs that "went bad", it seems to me that there was a chance to prevent it or fix it in the early stages. If you're in an HOA, doesn't it kind of behoove you to make sure it stays the type of HOA you want?

Yes, the case out here is that your HOA is effectively your city council since they do roads, parks, and the contract for garbage removal. If you lived in a big city you would have a city councilman and you might want to go to the meetings or write them letters etc. In an HOA you might want to do the same things.
 
2012-04-30 10:26:52 AM  

Kazan: Skarekrough: So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.

don't be a douche


I'm a gigging musician. On a good night a bar pays me a few hundred to do what I'm giving to them for free.
 
2012-04-30 10:27:54 AM  
Ok, thank you. I was getting confused at all the FrankenHOAs being talked about. If the little despots got voted in and were able to pass all these horrible rules, what's to stop the supposedly sane from getting themselves voted in and reversing them?
 
2012-04-30 10:33:09 AM  
 
2012-04-30 10:33:56 AM  

SweetSilverBlues: I have no experience with HOAs, so I have a question.

For all the HOAs that "went bad", it seems to me that there was a chance to prevent it or fix it in the early stages. If you're in an HOA, doesn't it kind of behoove you to make sure it stays the type of HOA you want?

/not a troll
//honest question


Here in Nevada we have a federal investigation going on. Some HOAs in Las Vegas were taken over by straw buyers using traditional dirty election tactics -- smearing opponents, intimidation,and simply stuffing the ballot boxes. Once the conspiracy insiders got on the boards, they voted to sue the builders for construction defects. Money for the lawsuits was collected from the homeowners, and went into the pockets of the lawyers, property managers and construction companies. No repairs were done. The scheme netted millions of dollars.

You can't fight that kind of corruption. Any HOA can be taken over by criminals interested only in taking money out of your pocket and putting it into theirs. Their actions were backed by crooked lawyers, realtors, property managers, ex-police officers, even judges. You can't fight when EVERYBODY conspires against you. You can die, though. Several witnesses in the Federal case have already died under suspicious circumstances.

This is an extreme case (though widespread in Las Vegas). More often, you are subject to petty crimes. A few hundred $$ here and there, making it easier to just pay up rather than fight. Because pretty much, when an HOA comes after you, you can't fight. The entire deck is stacked against you, and there is simply nothing you can do but pay and pay.
 
2012-04-30 10:38:46 AM  

SharkTrager: Around here you are kinda stuck with an HOA anywhere with newish houses worth living in. But, I hear very few horror stories.

The only run in I ever had was when I was sick. I managed, in short order, to get West Nile followed by Staph.


Sounds like East Texas.

I was about to try to find a service to mow it when I heard a mower start up. The neighbor had sent his kid to mow it.

This, however, also sounds like Texas.
 
2012-04-30 10:53:33 AM  

Skarekrough: Kazan: Skarekrough: So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.

don't be a douche

I'm a gigging musician. On a good night a bar pays me a few hundred to do what I'm giving to them for free.


i was referring to doing something just to annoy your neighbors.. don't do that.
 
2012-04-30 10:57:21 AM  

SweetMama: SweetSilverBlues: I have no experience with HOAs, so I have a question.

For all the HOAs that "went bad", it seems to me that there was a chance to prevent it or fix it in the early stages. If you're in an HOA, doesn't it kind of behoove you to make sure it stays the type of HOA you want?

/not a troll
//honest question

Here in Nevada we have a federal investigation going on. Some HOAs in Las Vegas were taken over by straw buyers using traditional dirty election tactics -- smearing opponents, intimidation,and simply stuffing the ballot boxes. Once the conspiracy insiders got on the boards, they voted to sue the builders for construction defects. Money for the lawsuits was collected from the homeowners, and went into the pockets of the lawyers, property managers and construction companies. No repairs were done. The scheme netted millions of dollars.

You can't fight that kind of corruption. Any HOA can be taken over by criminals interested only in taking money out of your pocket and putting it into theirs. Their actions were backed by crooked lawyers, realtors, property managers, ex-police officers, even judges. You can't fight when EVERYBODY conspires against you. You can die, though. Several witnesses in the Federal case have already died under suspicious circumstances.

This is an extreme case (though widespread in Las Vegas). More often, you are subject to petty crimes. A few hundred $$ here and there, making it easier to just pay up rather than fight. Because pretty much, when an HOA comes after you, you can't fight. The entire deck is stacked against you, and there is simply nothing you can do but pay and pay.


Yeek! That's insane!

I was more refering to the not-a-Tarantino-film HOAs, though. That situation is well and truly out of the control of the participating homeowners.

Hope you're not a victim!
 
2012-04-30 11:44:45 AM  

SweetMama: SweetSilverBlues: I have no experience with HOAs, so I have a question.

For all the HOAs that "went bad", it seems to me that there was a chance to prevent it or fix it in the early stages. If you're in an HOA, doesn't it kind of behoove you to make sure it stays the type of HOA you want?

/not a troll
//honest question

Here in Nevada we have a federal investigation going on. Some HOAs in Las Vegas were taken over by straw buyers using traditional dirty election tactics -- smearing opponents, intimidation,and simply stuffing the ballot boxes. Once the conspiracy insiders got on the boards, they voted to sue the builders for construction defects. Money for the lawsuits was collected from the homeowners, and went into the pockets of the lawyers, property managers and construction companies. No repairs were done. The scheme netted millions of dollars.

You can't fight that kind of corruption. Any HOA can be taken over by criminals interested only in taking money out of your pocket and putting it into theirs. Their actions were backed by crooked lawyers, realtors, property managers, ex-police officers, even judges. You can't fight when EVERYBODY conspires against you. You can die, though. Several witnesses in the Federal case have already died under suspicious circumstances.

This is an extreme case (though widespread in Las Vegas). More often, you are subject to petty crimes. A few hundred $$ here and there, making it easier to just pay up rather than fight. Because pretty much, when an HOA comes after you, you can't fight. The entire deck is stacked against you, and there is simply nothing you can do but pay and pay.


Yes, well, it IS Vegas. Vegas wasn't founded by the Quakers you know...

\Forget it Jake SweetMama, it's Chinatown Las Vegas
\\Vegas, baby! Vegas!
 
2012-04-30 11:46:59 AM  

archichris: It all changes when some smarmy little asshole convinces some friends to vote them into control of the HOA. Then they have the authority to do all the things the current HOA doesnt bother doing, like putting liens on your property. I've even seen a neighborhood association go bad like that. We are talking about a group with no legal authority to do anything, just neighbors who agreed 40 years ago to work together making the neighborhood better. And all it took was one person obsessed with controlling their neighbors and poof, three years of anger and bitterness that nearly ruined the organization. And not that it matters but yes the person was a rabid democrat, a licensed social worker, union member, etc......in the last year of her 'reign' she was walking the neighborhood with a clip board and camera writing down code violations on our homes. She would send you a copy of the letter she was sending to the city with photos of your peeling paint and leaky gutters. Absolutely went insane on the small amount of power she had. Spend the budget on traffic studies and parking studies and then tried to use the resu ...



My subdivision has a "voluntary" homeowner's association (HOA-free homes do exist! But I don't live in Florida or Georgia, so YMMV.) that is always sending out little notices trying to get people to join. They have zero authority, and that's the way I want them to stay. I have no intention of ever joining, no matter how many guilt trips they send out, because I don't want them to ever have every house join and somehow become legit. Because that's how it starts.

Besides, I'm not sure I trust them with money. Last year they sent out a letter to everyone in the subdivision asking for money to replace the entry sign. I can't remember the exact figures, but the "lowest estimate" they gave in the letter was ridiculously high when you did the math on each home, and they stated several times that they needed "every home" in the subdivision to contribute in order to replace the sign. We're talking several thousand dollars would have been raised had everyone donated the "minimum" amount. They also claimed that a buyer pulled out of purchasing a home because of the condition of the sign. Riiiiggght. I'm sure that was it. FYI: The sign wasn't that bad. A couple of letters just needed to be replaced where they'd slipped off.

I didn't contribute (my opinion was to just remove the damn sign completely). The sign somehow got fixed anyway.
 
2012-04-30 11:47:41 AM  
Don't live in Florida or Nevada. Damn typing fail.
 
2012-04-30 11:54:35 AM  

junglegoddess:
Besides, I'm not sure I trust them with money. Last year they sent out a letter to everyone in the subdivision asking for money to replace the entry sign. I can't remember the exact figures, but the "lowest estimate" they gave in the letter was ridiculously high when you did the math on each home, and they stated several times that they needed "every home" in the subdivision to contribut ...


Well, I'm not one to defend HOAs, but most likely they had an estimate for how many homes would actually contribute and made the "minimum" payment based off that. For example, If you need $100 and you have 100 homes and you thought only 25% of homes would send money, you make the suggested donation $4. They might have done the math based on how many homes were a part of the HOA, not the number of homes total.
 
2012-04-30 11:55:48 AM  

HST's Dead Carcass: One of my friends bought a bank repo home. 4,500 sq. ft, 3 level McMansion for $235,000. Everyone else in the neighborhood has paid $450-500,000 for their homes. Their HOA harasses them, that's really the only way to describe what they do to my friends. Every week they are in their yard inspecting the fence, inspecting the rock garden, quite literally measuring the lawn. They've been given warning for having 7 weeds in their rock garden. Seven. They counted them and writ them up for it. They wrote them up for the yard not being edged within parameters or the grass being half an inch too tall, window dressings not being the correct shade of 'off-white'. They just try to make life miserable for my friends because they got their house 50% off and it brought the market for their neighborhood down. He drives an Acura, not a BMW or Mercedes like everyone else in the neighborhood, so he's the scum of the neighborhood.


And yet those very same people would be biatching if the house stayed empty and unmaintained, and had no one paying the dues.

Go figure.
 
2012-04-30 12:05:41 PM  

junglegoddess: archichris: It all changes when some smarmy little asshole convinces some friends to vote them into control of the HOA. Then they have the authority to do all the things the current HOA doesnt bother doing, like putting liens on your property. I've even seen a neighborhood association go bad like that. We are talking about a group with no legal authority to do anything, just neighbors who agreed 40 years ago to work together making the neighborhood better. And all it took was one person obsessed with controlling their neighbors and poof, three years of anger and bitterness that nearly ruined the organization. And not that it matters but yes the person was a rabid democrat, a licensed social worker, union member, etc......in the last year of her 'reign' she was walking the neighborhood with a clip board and camera writing down code violations on our homes. She would send you a copy of the letter she was sending to the city with photos of your peeling paint and leaky gutters. Absolutely went insane on the small amount of power she had. Spend the budget on traffic studies and parking studies and then tried to use the resu ...


My subdivision has a "voluntary" homeowner's association (HOA-free homes do exist! But I don't live in Florida or Georgia, so YMMV.) that is always sending out little notices trying to get people to join. They have zero authority, and that's the way I want them to stay. I have no intention of ever joining, no matter how many guilt trips they send out, because I don't want them to ever have every house join and somehow become legit. Because that's how it starts.

Besides, I'm not sure I trust them with money. Last year they sent out a letter to everyone in the subdivision asking for money to replace the entry sign. I can't remember the exact figures, but the "lowest estimate" they gave in the letter was ridiculously high when you did the math on each home, and they stated several times that they needed "every home" in the subdivision to contribut ...


www.visitingdc.com

Who says a couple fallen letters is even a liability?
 
2012-04-30 12:14:58 PM  

DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government! Choose your political leaders from the choices offered by the Free Market! And if you don't like it, just abandon your home and underwater mortgage and move under a bridge 'cause you aren't renting anywhere with what the bankruptcy did to your credit rating.


2/10
 
2012-04-30 12:18:29 PM  

sycraft: $10 says all the "OMG you are such an idiot for buying a property with an HOA!!" people either rent or live in mom's basement (or maybe in the sticks in rare cases). They've promised themselves that when they finally get that promotion to assistant manager at Burger King and get their own place it won't have some tyrannical HOA, no sir. They know better than everyone else and well easily be able to find a place without one.

Turns out kids it is pretty hard to have a place that doesn't have an HOA in the city or suburbs. They are just real popular. If you live in a condo, which is also popular these days on account of more housing units in less space, they are mandatory because you have to have something to deal with the common areas. So if you are saying "No HOAs," you immediately write off any condos. Then you discover that most neighbourhoods have one. Low end, high end, doesn't really matter, they all seem to have them. Your options become extremely limited.


Just because they are ubiquitous doesn't mean people must like them or be happy about them.

Here in the UK HOA's are more or less unknown. Even in apartments the management company just don't have anywhere near the control or pettyness that happens in the US.
But generally houses are maintained, gardens are mowed, cars aren't left on blocks, and if they were so what?
Serious matters are dealt with by the local council, who have due process and accountability and have to follow the rules, not some neighbour on a power trip who will be knocking on your door with a fine within minutes of some "violation"

I visited a friend in Vegas a few years ago, who lived in a gated community inside another gated community and was utterly surprised and shocked that I required to park my car inside the garage overnight, rather than on her drive. You own your own house but cannot park a car in your own drive overnight? WTF?

I also just don't get this "Every house much look exactly the same" thing. In the UK a modern development will deliberately try to make houses look different to the ones next door.
Example. And there is no HOA there. See any cars up on bricks? This development was built about ten/twenty years ago. See any places falling down? Any lawns not mowed? Look around long enough and you will find something, but it's hardly an epidemic, Property prices are also far, far, higher in the UK, and didn't fall through the floor in the last few years, though that's almost certainly due to lack of land here.
 
2012-04-30 12:21:48 PM  

Tman144: junglegoddess:
Besides, I'm not sure I trust them with money. Last year they sent out a letter to everyone in the subdivision asking for money to replace the entry sign. I can't remember the exact figures, but the "lowest estimate" they gave in the letter was ridiculously high when you did the math on each home, and they stated several times that they needed "every home" in the subdivision to contribut ...

Well, I'm not one to defend HOAs, but most likely they had an estimate for how many homes would actually contribute and made the "minimum" payment based off that. For example, If you need $100 and you have 100 homes and you thought only 25% of homes would send money, you make the suggested donation $4. They might have done the math based on how many homes were a part of the HOA, not the number of homes total.


I must be a suspicious person, then, because I just assumed they bumped up the minimum amount they wanted from each house in order to boost the amount of money they would have left over after paying for the sign. I have no idea what they are doing with the fees they collect from the homes that have opted in (and no clue how many people have done so. None of the neighbors I talk to on a regular basis have). We have no common areas like pools. There is a very small patch of grass leading into the subdivision, but it can't cost that much money to maintain. And I'm pretty sure the HOA "president" is the one cutting it on his own time.
 
2012-04-30 12:26:47 PM  
Shiela , they paid their tickets they knew what they were getting into I say LET 'EM CRASH
 
2012-04-30 12:32:28 PM  

SweetSilverBlues:
Hope you're not a victim!


I was a victim on the petty crime side of things. It cost me several thousand dollars before the storm passed. It was very stressful, to the point of affecting my health.

Besides the big conspiracy, there are tons of tiny conspiracies, where they just fine you for nonsensical stuff. You can't take them to court, because when we weren't looking, they took away our right to sue.

Some people have lost their homes because of liens they didn't know they had, based on fines they didn't know they owed. Others have faced various harassments such as having their water cut off. It is quite insane.

On our side, we are fighting back with a publicity campaign, naming names on television and putting corrupt HOAs in a "Hall of Shame". It sort of works, but only temporarily. The system is rigged in favor of the crooks, and the financial incentive is very high. People at all levels find the corruption irresistible. Everybody from low-level security guards to state senators have their fingers in the pot. It's crazy.
 
2012-04-30 12:48:34 PM  
I don't understand the weird aversion to old houses that I see in this thread---people saying, "but but you have to join an HOA if you don't want to live in a house that's decades old! Old wiring! Lead paint! You might need a new roof!"

If the house actually needs any revamping like a new roof, you negotiate with the seller for a price that reflects this expense, and you have someone put on a new roof.

The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

And the comment that you'd have to rip out the entire electrical system is silly. What, just in case you disconnect the old wires and they spontaneously patch themselves back into your new electric service?
 
2012-04-30 01:00:06 PM  

Xcott: I don't understand the weird aversion to old houses that I see in this thread---people saying, "but but you have to join an HOA if you don't want to live in a house that's decades old! Old wiring! Lead paint! You might need a new roof!"

If the house actually needs any revamping like a new roof, you negotiate with the seller for a price that reflects this expense, and you have someone put on a new roof.

The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

And the comment that you'd have to rip out the entire electrical system is silly. What, just in case you disconnect the old wires and they spontaneously patch themselves back into your new electric service?


True. I grew up in a house over 200 years old. Still had the original roof, windows etc. Of course electrical stuff and central heating were added far later. I think the plumbing was mostly about a hundred years old.

I bought my present home twenty years ago, and it was over ten years old then. In twenty years I have spent maybe $500 on maintenance, excluding cosmetic redecorating, new kitchen etc.
I have had several Americans say that modern US houses just are not built to last, and that is why you have to spend thousands of dollars a year replacing stuff. My roof, foundation, walls etc are built the exact same way the 200 year old house was so I think I've got a few years left in it. Of course it helps that we generally don't have tornadoes or earthquakes.
 
2012-04-30 01:46:18 PM  

meanmutton: DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government!

2/10


I don't see that as a troll. Thats pretty much just straight up truth. For the ones I know, including an ex-girlfreind running around flying Gadsden flags from her truck, that really honestly is their ideal.
 
2012-04-30 01:49:45 PM  

CliChe Guevara: meanmutton: DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government!

2/10

I don't see that as a troll. Thats pretty much just straight up truth. For the ones I know, including an ex-girlfreind running around flying Gadsden flags from her truck, that really honestly is their ideal.


It's a confusing contradiction. A group of people getting together and working for the community is "good" and "privatized" but once you get bigger, and become a government, it's "socilasim!" and bad! Apart from the size, what do they think is different?
 
2012-04-30 01:50:59 PM  

Xcott: The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?


You mean you've never heard of problems that progress over time in houses with aluminum wiring?

Mechanical contacts (wire nuts etc), wires deform, oxidize becoming higher resistance. All of a sudden power is being dissipated at a junction where it is not expected. Heat. In the wall.

www.yannielectric.com
 
2012-04-30 01:58:23 PM  
So I don't know much about how prevalent HOAs are down in the US, or how common they are here in Canada, but is it mostly a suburb thing or is it everywhere?

I'm just thinking that if you proposed such things in my smaller (~50k) home city, telling people where and what they can park or how to landscape, you'd get laughed right out of town.
 
2012-04-30 02:19:38 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I bought my present home twenty years ago, and it was over ten years old then. In twenty years I have spent maybe $500 on maintenance, excluding cosmetic redecorating, new kitchen etc.


$500 for a new kitchen? What part is new?

We have a 100-year-old house, and spent a lot of money on it. However, this is mostly elective stuff like putting in a nice patio, adding attic sunlights, putting a drainage system in the foundation---none of this was really necessary, and certainly not because the house is "old."

On the other hand, old houses in Binghamton have a lot of nice features that you just don't get on new construction, like grand front porches, camelback stairs, highly figured oak not just in the floors but in the wall trim, window sills, ornamentation, mantle, bult-in hutch etc. That stuff is wickedly expensive to add to a house that doesn't have it, and always looks just a bit fakety if you try.

I think we spent zero dollars because the house was old; if anything, we made money off it: under the carpet was an amazing 100-year-old oak floor (oak 1st floor, fir 2nd floor), and for $1000 in refinishing we had a floor that you just can't buy anymore, at least not without feeling a pang of guilt about the trees and your kids' college fund.

Then again, I guess we spend an extra few hundred dollars per year because old houses leak heat like you wouldn't believe---and this is something you can't really fix. That's the one true cost of an old house, and it probably isn't an issue in Florida.
 
2012-04-30 02:42:04 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Xcott: The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

You mean you've never heard of problems that progress over time in houses with aluminum wiring?


If you have an issue with Al wiring, or any other wiring issue, your inspector tells you and you factor the cost into your counter-offer. Our inspector checked for aluminum wires, just like he checked for radon and rotting wood and bugs.

The aversion to old houses seems to verge on the irrational. But then, the more irrational behavior in our economy, the more money the rest of us make on our portfolios.
 
2012-04-30 02:43:29 PM  

Xcott: Flint Ironstag: I bought my present home twenty years ago, and it was over ten years old then. In twenty years I have spent maybe $500 on maintenance, excluding cosmetic redecorating, new kitchen etc.

$500 for a new kitchen? What part is new?



I have spent $500 excluding decorating, new kitchen etc. Things that, like you, I chose to do rather than the house needing doing.
 
2012-04-30 02:46:08 PM  
I started to care but i see this is a florida story, let the whole state sink into the water and the people fed to wild critters.

/Suck it Florida
 
2012-04-30 03:30:02 PM  

Xcott: I don't understand the weird aversion to old houses that I see in this thread---people saying, "but but you have to join an HOA if you don't want to live in a house that's decades old! Old wiring! Lead paint! You might need a new roof!"

If the house actually needs any revamping like a new roof, you negotiate with the seller for a price that reflects this expense, and you have someone put on a new roof.

The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

And the comment that you'd have to rip out the entire electrical system is silly. What, just in case you disconnect the old wires and they spontaneously patch themselves back into your new electric service?


My house was built sometime before 1900 and I like it, but it's also been relatively well updated. I won't go so far as to say 'professional quality' on the updates, but it's certainly in better shape than my in-law's house (lived with them 2 years so I have no problem with saying it sucks).

The foundation for both houses is cut local stone, and the original floors/beams are still in both, but that's where the similarities end. Mine has updated sewer, mostly well done wiring (previous owners had strange ideas about where to put some outlets and light switches, but otherwise it's fine), newer vinyl siding, decent quality roof cover, and double paned windows. The people who did the updates didn't buy the highest quality stuff but it's still leagues ahead of a lot of houses I saw that were 'flipped' when looking. Plus we have cable internet, actual sewer and water service, and the power doesn't go out every time it gets windy.

We won't stay here forever, I expect, but it's a nice place to live till we can save up enough for an even better place.
 
2012-04-30 03:43:18 PM  

SweetMama: SweetSilverBlues:
Hope you're not a victim!

I was a victim on the petty crime side of things. It cost me several thousand dollars before the storm passed. It was very stressful, to the point of affecting my health.

Besides the big conspiracy, there are tons of tiny conspiracies, where they just fine you for nonsensical stuff. You can't take them to court, because when we weren't looking, they took away our right to sue.

Some people have lost their homes because of liens they didn't know they had, based on fines they didn't know they owed. Others have faced various harassments such as having their water cut off. It is quite insane.

On our side, we are fighting back with a publicity campaign, naming names on television and putting corrupt HOAs in a "Hall of Shame". It sort of works, but only temporarily. The system is rigged in favor of the crooks, and the financial incentive is very high. People at all levels find the corruption irresistible. Everybody from low-level security guards to state senators have their fingers in the pot. It's crazy.


Owning your own home can be stressful enough without having every corrupt Tom, Dick and Harry sticking their fingers in your wallet.

Your post made me sad. I hope you recover and I hope your campaign of shame works!
 
2012-04-30 04:06:06 PM  
Unlawful eviction - All eviction notices in the state of Florida require a MINIMUM of 7 days for relocation unless actual intentional physical damage to the property is proven(it's also damn near impossible to prove)
Unlawful subletting on a property you don't own - No individual in the state of Florida is allowed to sublet any property they do not have full ownership of. This requires a title in hand. You can't even have a mortgage on a house and legally sublet.
 
2012-04-30 05:06:16 PM  

Kazan: Mr. Shabooboo: 200 Amp

nice

Mr. Shabooboo: 80's era re-wire in a new box with breakers

so not quite modern 200 amp service.. but it should be good.

Mr. Shabooboo: Plumbing was updated sometime in the 60's or 70's too, it's plastic..Seismic isn't really an issue..I have earthquake/subsidence insurance anyway.Paint is all

plastic? probably PVC.

where are you at? most of the country is fortunate not to have to worry about seismic.

Mr. Shabooboo: latex, my floors are mostly wood, pine, stained and polyurethane, the rest of the areas are tile. The
basement has a couple of very minor leaks when it when wind drives heavy rain against the house..But
i'm working on that..Most I ever get in is like a 1/2 measuring cup tops..And that's when we get like 3 inches
of heavy wind blown rain..

sounds in pretty good condition.

if i wanted that house out here and an hour or less commute I'd need to drop $600k minimum


There's no difference between 1980's 200 amp service and today.

My parent's ranch was built in the 1950's and it's built like a tank. Hardwood floors, stucco siding. This house will outlast 90% of the shiat being built out in the subdivisions.
 
2012-04-30 05:20:53 PM  

Xcott: I don't understand the weird aversion to old houses that I see in this thread---people saying, "but but you have to join an HOA if you don't want to live in a house that's decades old! Old wiring! Lead paint! You might need a new roof!"

If the house actually needs any revamping like a new roof, you negotiate with the seller for a price that reflects this expense, and you have someone put on a new roof.

The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

And the comment that you'd have to rip out the entire electrical system is silly. What, just in case you disconnect the old wires and they spontaneously patch themselves back into your new electric service?


LOL, so true. Reminds me of this: 30 years old, let's smash it to the floor and put a car park here!
 
2012-04-30 05:24:40 PM  
I'm just impressed that nobody's shot the sumbiatch. Maybe someone ought to get him a thank you gift for being the HOA president. I'd say a hoodie and package of Skittles would be appropriate.

/formerly from Florida
//will never move back
///knows right where the development in the article is
 
2012-04-30 05:36:11 PM  

coco ebert: HOAs seem like a way to privatize government services into the hands of residents. We see what the ideology of privatization leads to.


Pretty much their intent. Municipalities love HOAs. Now it (the municipality) doesn't have to worry about policing/punishing code violations, it now has a small, motivated army of control freaks to do it.
 
2012-04-30 05:39:18 PM  
If only there were HOAs back in Hitler's day, we wouldn't have had a World War 2.
 
2012-04-30 05:55:33 PM  

Artcurus: My parent's ranch was built in the 1950's and it's built like a tank. Hardwood floors, stucco siding. This house will outlast 90% of the shiat being built out in the subdivisions.


hardwood floors in my house, hardiplank siding, the roof has a 30 year warranty.. house has a 10 year structural, 1 year everything.. couple other warranties.

not all subdivisions are shiat.
 
2012-04-30 10:48:09 PM  

junglegoddess: A couple of letters just needed to be replaced where they'd slipped off.


hegemonyheights.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-01 01:30:11 AM  

archichris: The only thing worse is Historic Overlay Zoning. Our city is screwed right now because one neighborhood full of shiatty hundred year old tenement housing got historic status through the actions of about 4 people. Now we are in danger of losing our most important expressway exits into our business district because a new bridge cant exit traffic near that historic neighborhood because of federal law limiting how many homes you can demolish in historic areas. Trust me, the homes are crap, they are mostly falling off a hillside, are infested with bed bugs, and were never nice historic homes, just vernacular single story brick housing.

Community organizers should be run out of town on rails by anyone interested in a nice place to live.


This almost happened in Fresno. Fulton Mall was one of the first street closures to create an open-air pedestrian mall in the US, and a model for the rest of the country and world as a way to turn the clock on the suburbia revolution and bring people back downtown. And it was a complete failure, full of bums, seedy low-rent retail, and juvenile detention & CPS offices, and is basically where the illegals with no money go to shop. So the city council eventually decided things need to change, maybe traffic needs to be reopened, or building codes changed, or something. The most assholish of those who originally designed and pushed for the place decided that instead of defending its merits, he'd just do an end run and submit a federal historic place application to prevent any changes ever, no matter that it's now a dump. Fortunately he was overruled when it became obvious he was doing it out of pure arrogance and a desire to get his name in the historic register.

Still, nothing's been done about it yet. The momentum's gone, and once again a plan just sort of fades away and west downtown sits in squalor.

It turns out that the only real way to kill suburbia is to raise gas prices. Who'd a thunk it? The north downtown is a hipster commune now.
 
2012-05-01 03:20:14 AM  

Kazan: jaytkay: Kazan: the only houses old enough to not be in HoA's [and close enough to not have a 2 hour commute each way] start at $600k for a tiny ass old house that i would have to rip out the entire electrical of and redo to be able to live in. while i have the walls open i would probably find that the plumbing needs repairs, and that the roof needs redone.

NOBODY lives in those places.

Because it's too crowded!

actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

like what? bars? ridiculously overpriced little cafes? stores that i don't want anything from?

i don't want to live there because they're priced farking outrageously and they're hideously old.


Close proximity to skinny hipster girls, presumably.
 
2012-05-01 11:32:13 AM  

foxyshadis: Kazan: actually a number of my coworkers like those places around here.. "because there are things to do!!!"

like what? bars? ridiculously overpriced little cafes? stores that i don't want anything from?

i don't want to live there because they're priced farking outrageously and they're hideously old.

Close proximity to skinny hipster girls, presumably.


Either that, or proximity to SOCIETY.

Our county has a township in the southwest corner, near all the big-box stores, where the houses are new, fancy, expensive and in-demand among the upper middle class. We never understood why it was so popular, because once you look away from the house it seems like a terrible place to live. There's no main street, no sidewalks, no public infrastructure of any kind; but unlike living in the country, you have insane levels of traffic and congestion, and you can't leave your house without a car, because getting anywhere requires you to cross busy streets. Yet it is assumed that when you make your pile, you'll get a house there because it's where successful people live.

Against convention, we bought a "hideously old" house in the center of town (are we now conditioned to see old houses as hideous? I wonder how these people react when they see monuments, or mountains,) and we are probably the kind of people the poster is talking about. We wanted a house near lots of everything, and not so isolated that we can only interface with the world from inside a car. Thus we're across from a big park, and near enough to main street that we can walk (or bike) to: grocery stores, the drug store, a couple ice cream places, fast food places, a bowling alley, cafes, dry cleaning, the hospital, the dentist, an elementary school, middle school and high school, the post office, and about six bars.

However, we don't define "things to do" in terms of the businesses we can access. We don't really need to be near six bars or even one bar, and walking to the grocery store isn't really like a thing. And having a kid means that it's great to be across from a park, but you barely ever manage to get to your front porch, much less across the street. We manage to use the tennis court maybe once every two years, and we have never gone to the community pool despite continual resolutions to do so. So I can see the poster's logic: why do I need to be near a bunch of things I barely ever use?

Furthermore, if you take a lovely walkable downtown area versus a terrible knot of impassible highways, you'll find that they both have very high "walkability" scores because they both have a lot of businesses in close proximity. Thus it doesn't make sense to define "things to do" in terms of actual businesses.

What really matters, I think, is whether there's a civilization where you're at, and whether you're really in it rather than merely able to orbit it from within a metal craft. Whether you know and interact with people in the community aside from your immediate neighbors, whether you're living in a place where it actually makes sense to have a front porch, because there are other people outside.

For that matter, I like living in a place where it isn't weird for people to be outside. I once tried to walk from my workplace to a community center, separated by a bunch of sidewalk-free suburbia. Walking in the street was no big deal, but I got a lot of paranoid stares from homeowners, because WTF is anyone supposed to be doing there? In contrast, the old residential areas have street layouts designed for people to go through them, not around them, and the WTF stares are reserved for people who cut through your backyard, not people who walk in front of your house.
 
2012-05-01 12:54:08 PM  

Xcott: foxyshadis: Kazan: For that matter, I like living in a place where it isn't weird for people to be outside. I once tried to walk from my workplace to a community center, separated by a bunch of sidewalk-free suburbia. Walking in the street was no big deal, but I got a lot of paranoid stares from homeowners, because WTF is anyone supposed to be doing there? In contrast, the old residential areas have street layouts designed for people to go through them, not around them, and the WTF stares are reserved for people who cut through your backyard, not people who walk in front of your house.


My neighborhood apparently got going in the 40s (Zillow says the majority of houses around mine [pre-1900] were built then), so it's one of those and has sidewalks. I do wish it wasn't a main thoroughfare into town, but I am not from the area and didn't realize that before we bought the place - there's a TON of traffic and during motorcycle season all the bikers leaving the bars go past my house late at night. It is still nice to see a lot of people and kids walking/biking; as long as they don't actually stop in front of my house I have no problem with it. It is kind of weird though that most houses here have a porch but it is rare to see anyone sitting on them. Then again, the aforementioned traffic is pretty much the reason why I don't use mine either - other than the rare warm evening with a barleywine ale and the new Smithsonian magazine.
 
2012-05-01 01:56:30 PM  

Xcott: Either that, or proximity to SOCIETY.


I was just making a funny and drawing a comparison to the land whales that populate suburbia now.

I live in a downtown area, I'm even what some might call a hipster thanks to the great cycle of hipsterdom, maybe even a foodie (shudder), but I interact with people and occasionally like doing community things. I love it, but I'd also give quite a bit for a second house miles from the nearest neighbor up in the woods somewhere. Sometimes you just need to check out for a while.
 
2012-05-01 10:12:37 PM  
Screw HOAs. It's bad enough living in a normal neighborhood with nosy neighbors and smarmy code officers that snoop around your property and tell you to do this and that.
 
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