Chinchillazilla: I never really understood the existence of these crazy HOA's. My house is technically in an HOA, but I don't think they ever do anything except make sure common areas get mowed, replace dead trees at the front of the neighborhood with saplings, and stuff like that. There are dues but I don't think there are penalties if you don't pay them. There are also rules about what you can and can't build, but no one follows them and no one cares. You can't have a shed that isn't attached to your house, but almost everyone has one.

It's been that way as long as I can remember. Thank god. I can't imagine living somewhere like the hellhole in the article.

Your little paradise can disappear like Keyser Söze and its replacement can force you to tear down those sheds and start mucking about in every other aspect of property management.

Sleep well.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: No offense, but you're mentally retarded if you think the only options are apartments, underpasses, or HOA neighborhoods. The vast majority of houses for sale are in non-deed-restricted communities. People are attracted to the "good houses" in HOAs for the same reason they're attracted to religion: it makes them feel safe and special, until they realize that they're unable to pick and choose the specific details of the religion/HOA rules to serve their particular tastes/interests. Then they get all pissy and biatch on the internet.

If you don't want to abide by HOA rules, don't live in an HOA neighborhood. It's really that simple. Sorry, but, "I like the idea of no trailers on the front lawn, so I bought in a deed-restricted community, but I hate the idea of mandatory mowings, so I hate my HOA boo hooooo" is a farce.

You are wrong, plain and simple. As a practical matter, in this area (Northern Virginia, near DC), if you want to buy a decently priced home, you're going to be in an HOA. It's as simple as that. Are there alternatives? Maybe in your area, but not around here. And since the significant number of jobs that fit my education/skills are located in this area, it isn't practical to move.

One of my friends bought a bank repo home. 4,500 sq. ft, 3 level McMansion for $235,000. Everyone else in the neighborhood has paid $450-500,000 for their homes. Their HOA harasses them, that's really the only way to describe what they do to my friends. Every week they are in their yard inspecting the fence, inspecting the rock garden, quite literally measuring the lawn. They've been given warning for having 7 weeds in their rock garden. Seven. They counted them and writ them up for it. They wrote them up for the yard not being edged within parameters or the grass being half an inch too tall, window dressings not being the correct shade of 'off-white'. They just try to make life miserable for my friends because they got their house 50% off and it brought the market for their neighborhood down. He drives an Acura, not a BMW or Mercedes like everyone else in the neighborhood, so he's the scum of the neighborhood.

66dude: Kazan: Nuclear Monk: I feel bad for anyone who wants to buy a brand new home though...unless you are building a custom home out in the woods, most new homes are part of this breed of overpowered HOAs. You really don't get a choice for new homes.

I think when we were buying this last round, only one new home wasn't part of an HOA. And it was way out in the sticks. I ended up getting an older one in probably the last neighborhood built before HOAs took over.

i close on a house in 2 days.. the HoA rules are nearly non-existent. and i'll make sure to get on the board when we gain control.

unless you have cash-on-hand it is impossible to get a new home without an HoA. and for electrical, structural and chemical reasons i don't trust anything older than 2004. (and i don't trust anything 2006 till the crash)

I'm in the process of purchasing a townhouse with an HOA with 5% down, so I'm getting a kick out of this.

i close on a fully detached craftsmen-style single family house with a very minimalistic HoA tommorow.

Skarekrough: So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.

don't be a douche

Jefepato: That said, since when does the officer have to cite you?

most cities have codes about grass height because an unkept yard is actually a refuge for disease carrying rodents. because of that many of them have it as a must-cite.

Jefepato: That said, since when does the officer have to cite you? They rarely have an actual obligation to do much of anything.

To paraphrase Bill Cosby: "Parents The Police don't want Justice, they want Quiet"

They'd cite him just to keep the HOA from pestering them.

66dude: Nice! Mine is an attached end unit single family house built in 2007 that overlooks a golf course. It is probably the cheapest townhouse in the 16-unit development. The only thing that the HOA does is mow the lawn, plow the driveways and "street", and save up money for any roof replacement that could occur. I had a chance to visit the new place several times, just to see what kind of cars are in their driveways and garages. Mostly economy to mid-sized cars so far, like a Prius, a Ford Fusion, a Chevy Malibu. I did see a cheap new Mercedes. I think I'm in good company :)

our HoA has some very basic rules, and a silly Architectural Approval Council or whatever. but once the builder transfers control to the owners i'm going to try to make sure to get on the Board and just stonewall any attempts at new rule making.

Skarekrough: Kazan: Skarekrough: So I started bringing out my acoustic and doing drunken renditions of Rolling Stones tunes.

don't be a douche

I'm a gigging musician. On a good night a bar pays me a few hundred to do what I'm giving to them for free.

i was referring to doing something just to annoy your neighbors.. don't do that.

HST's Dead Carcass: One of my friends bought a bank repo home. 4,500 sq. ft, 3 level McMansion for $235,000. Everyone else in the neighborhood has paid $450-500,000 for their homes. Their HOA harasses them, that's really the only way to describe what they do to my friends. Every week they are in their yard inspecting the fence, inspecting the rock garden, quite literally measuring the lawn. They've been given warning for having 7 weeds in their rock garden. Seven. They counted them and writ them up for it. They wrote them up for the yard not being edged within parameters or the grass being half an inch too tall, window dressings not being the correct shade of 'off-white'. They just try to make life miserable for my friends because they got their house 50% off and it brought the market for their neighborhood down. He drives an Acura, not a BMW or Mercedes like everyone else in the neighborhood, so he's the scum of the neighborhood.

And yet those very same people would be biatching if the house stayed empty and unmaintained, and had no one paying the dues.

Go figure.

junglegoddess: archichris: It all changes when some smarmy little asshole convinces some friends to vote them into control of the HOA. Then they have the authority to do all the things the current HOA doesnt bother doing, like putting liens on your property. I've even seen a neighborhood association go bad like that. We are talking about a group with no legal authority to do anything, just neighbors who agreed 40 years ago to work together making the neighborhood better. And all it took was one person obsessed with controlling their neighbors and poof, three years of anger and bitterness that nearly ruined the organization. And not that it matters but yes the person was a rabid democrat, a licensed social worker, union member, etc......in the last year of her 'reign' she was walking the neighborhood with a clip board and camera writing down code violations on our homes. She would send you a copy of the letter she was sending to the city with photos of your peeling paint and leaky gutters. Absolutely went insane on the small amount of power she had. Spend the budget on traffic studies and parking studies and then tried to use the resu ...


My subdivision has a "voluntary" homeowner's association (HOA-free homes do exist! But I don't live in Florida or Georgia, so YMMV.) that is always sending out little notices trying to get people to join. They have zero authority, and that's the way I want them to stay. I have no intention of ever joining, no matter how many guilt trips they send out, because I don't want them to ever have every house join and somehow become legit. Because that's how it starts.

Besides, I'm not sure I trust them with money. Last year they sent out a letter to everyone in the subdivision asking for money to replace the entry sign. I can't remember the exact figures, but the "lowest estimate" they gave in the letter was ridiculously high when you did the math on each home, and they stated several times that they needed "every home" in the subdivision to contribut ...



Who says a couple fallen letters is even a liability?

sycraft: $10 says all the "OMG you are such an idiot for buying a property with an HOA!!" people either rent or live in mom's basement (or maybe in the sticks in rare cases). They've promised themselves that when they finally get that promotion to assistant manager at Burger King and get their own place it won't have some tyrannical HOA, no sir. They know better than everyone else and well easily be able to find a place without one.

Turns out kids it is pretty hard to have a place that doesn't have an HOA in the city or suburbs. They are just real popular. If you live in a condo, which is also popular these days on account of more housing units in less space, they are mandatory because you have to have something to deal with the common areas. So if you are saying "No HOAs," you immediately write off any condos. Then you discover that most neighbourhoods have one. Low end, high end, doesn't really matter, they all seem to have them. Your options become extremely limited.

Just because they are ubiquitous doesn't mean people must like them or be happy about them.

Here in the UK HOA's are more or less unknown. Even in apartments the management company just don't have anywhere near the control or pettyness that happens in the US.
But generally houses are maintained, gardens are mowed, cars aren't left on blocks, and if they were so what?
Serious matters are dealt with by the local council, who have due process and accountability and have to follow the rules, not some neighbour on a power trip who will be knocking on your door with a fine within minutes of some "violation"

I visited a friend in Vegas a few years ago, who lived in a gated community inside another gated community and was utterly surprised and shocked that I required to park my car inside the garage overnight, rather than on her drive. You own your own house but cannot park a car in your own drive overnight? WTF?

I also just don't get this "Every house much look exactly the same" thing. In the UK a modern development will deliberately try to make houses look different to the ones next door.
Example. And there is no HOA there. See any cars up on bricks? This development was built about ten/twenty years ago. See any places falling down? Any lawns not mowed? Look around long enough and you will find something, but it's hardly an epidemic, Property prices are also far, far, higher in the UK, and didn't fall through the floor in the last few years, though that's almost certainly due to lack of land here.

Xcott: I don't understand the weird aversion to old houses that I see in this thread---people saying, "but but you have to join an HOA if you don't want to live in a house that's decades old! Old wiring! Lead paint! You might need a new roof!"

If the house actually needs any revamping like a new roof, you negotiate with the seller for a price that reflects this expense, and you have someone put on a new roof.

The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

And the comment that you'd have to rip out the entire electrical system is silly. What, just in case you disconnect the old wires and they spontaneously patch themselves back into your new electric service?

True. I grew up in a house over 200 years old. Still had the original roof, windows etc. Of course electrical stuff and central heating were added far later. I think the plumbing was mostly about a hundred years old.

I bought my present home twenty years ago, and it was over ten years old then. In twenty years I have spent maybe $500 on maintenance, excluding cosmetic redecorating, new kitchen etc.
I have had several Americans say that modern US houses just are not built to last, and that is why you have to spend thousands of dollars a year replacing stuff. My roof, foundation, walls etc are built the exact same way the 200 year old house was so I think I've got a few years left in it. Of course it helps that we generally don't have tornadoes or earthquakes.

CliChe Guevara: meanmutton: DrRatchet: That's what you get for living in Florida. (Or anywhere with a HOA)

It occurs to me that developments with HOAs are the Tea Party ideal. A community with a fully privatized government!

2/10

I don't see that as a troll. Thats pretty much just straight up truth. For the ones I know, including an ex-girlfreind running around flying Gadsden flags from her truck, that really honestly is their ideal.

It's a confusing contradiction. A group of people getting together and working for the community is "good" and "privatized" but once you get bigger, and become a government, it's "socilasim!" and bad! Apart from the size, what do they think is different?

Xcott: The rest is just dumb. "Old" wiring? If the inspector tells you the wiring has to be replaced, that's one thing; but if it's just "old"? Are wires like eggs? OMG 40 year old wiring! That's like 1972! Did they have refrigerators and TVs back then?

You mean you've never heard of problems that progress over time in houses with aluminum wiring?

Mechanical contacts (wire nuts etc), wires deform, oxidize becoming higher resistance. All of a sudden power is being dissipated at a junction where it is not expected. Heat. In the wall.