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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Area man discovers that when investing in the Franklin Mint 401(k), past performance is not indicative of future results   (heraldnews.suntimes.com) divider line 224
    More: Fail, Franklin Mint, Benz, Princess of Wales  
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18279 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2012 at 8:40 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



224 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-04-29 09:39:47 AM  

nicoffeine: Somebody should write a book about Area Man. He's everywhere.


Someone did,
Link
 
2012-04-29 09:41:57 AM  

edmo: I have mint condition Jimmy Carter Inaugural coin from the Franklin Mint. I've seen these on Ebay for nearly $300 dollars. And as low as $12.95. Don't remember what I paid for it new.


When my neighbor died a few years ago they had an estate auction. One of the items listed was a pair of commemorative glasses from Queen Elizabeth's coronation. No idea what they went for.
 
2012-04-29 09:42:46 AM  

BunkyBrewman: Wait until he realizes how much his Beanie Baby collection is worth.


That's hilari-sad to me because my wife's cousin has a stack of plastic tubs full of Beanie Babies in her garage as here retirement plan. (I'm probably gonna end up supporting her wacky ass in a few years)

And, by the way, "Area Man" would be a pretty lousy supper hero.
 
2012-04-29 09:47:20 AM  

tetsoushima: StoPPeRmobile: [www.michaelarnoldart.com image 500x375]
lol

I used to work at a curio shop that sold these things. I always thought they were about as classy as a dixie cup toast during a frozen pizza dinner in a double-wide trailer.


This is a thread about coins, why you gotta try to make us jealous with your high-fallootin experiences.
 
2012-04-29 09:48:59 AM  
Limited edition to The Franklin Mint means it's limited to the number of buyers for that item.
 
2012-04-29 09:49:36 AM  
That Guy: There are two kinds of people: sheep and sharks. Anyone who is a sheep is fired. Who is a sheep?
Dr. Zoidberg: Errr, excuse me... which is the one people like to hug?
That Guy: Gutsy question. You're a shark. Sharks are winners, and they don't look back because they have no necks. Necks are for sheep.


www.pequepuzzle.com

Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor.
 
2012-04-29 09:54:25 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: And, by the way, "Area Man" would be a pretty lousy supper hero.


Japan "Local Hero" disagrees:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
pla
2012-04-29 09:57:05 AM  
Bit'O'Gristle :"Clad in 4mm of .9999 gold" should have tipped you off

I think you mean 4μm - An old-style (Eisenhower) US silver dollar only measures 2.6mm thick. Even 0.4mm would contain a considerable amount of the metal in question.
 
2012-04-29 09:57:38 AM  

DrippinBalls: Obviously, had the idiot in the article invested in sure-fire collectables such as the full line of velvet Elvis paintings and the complete NASCAR plate line, he would be frolicking in the Bahamas right now. Or, Ripley West Virginia.


Spencer, WV is where the real money goes.
 
2012-04-29 09:58:03 AM  

leevis: I save any coin I find from before 1960, I needed a hobby. I probably have more than 1,000 bucks in face-value but I doubt I'll ever be retiring off of them. An early Jefferson nickel probably wouldn't go for much more than 25 or 30 cents unless it's an error coin.


The good thing is all the denominations dime and above are actual silver.
 
2012-04-29 09:59:43 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: No shiat? There's a news flash. "Clad in 4mm of .9999 gold" should have tipped you off, as well as the statement "not affiliated with the US Mint or US government". It's like buying a crappy tv from rent-to-own, you end up paying 10 times what it's worth, and are getting farked, and they are getting rich. These items don't have ANY worth except for collectors, and their silver/gold, which is usually at 4mm, which is almost nothing. They will not appreciate in value, and nobody wants them. You got screwed with your pants on.


Hmm....

Assume a coin about 1 inch in diameter.

Volume = pi * r2 * h
3.14*12.52*4 = 1962.5mm3

Two sides to the coin = 3925 mm3 = 3.925 cm3
Density of gold is 19.32 g/cm3
Price of gold as of Friday is $53.39 per gram
3.925 cm3 * 19.32 g/cm3*53.39 $/g = $4048.62

Wow Franklin mint has gone uptown.

// Just being a pedantic asshole... I know you meant mg.
// too lazy *cough* hungover *cough* to calculate value for the coin sides
 
2012-04-29 10:01:27 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club:
And, by the way, "Area Man" would be a pretty lousy supper hero.


www.pequepuzzle.com

Sees what you did there.
 
2012-04-29 10:02:41 AM  
I'm glad my grandfather collected real silver and gold coins as opposed to this clad crap. He kinda got me into it as well. I still have a bunch of old silver coins as well as large cents.
 
2012-04-29 10:04:52 AM  

Raider_dad: Limited edition to The Franklin Mint means it's limited to the number of buyers for that item.


I thought production was limited to the amount of stuff in the world they could melt down to make them?
 
2012-04-29 10:11:46 AM  

tetsoushima: StoPPeRmobile: [www.michaelarnoldart.com image 500x375]
lol

I used to work at a curio shop that sold these things. I always thought they were about as classy as a dixie cup toast during a frozen pizza dinner in a double-wide trailer.


Oddly enough, we were thinking of getting just that painting, along with a 'snow-white' looking scene, but I couldn't care less if it was by Kinkade though.

The 'snow-white' house would look cute in my 4yr old daughter's room, and my wife and I spend every other weekend at Longwood Gardens, where you literally have the scene that Kinkade ripped off for that painting.

ie:

farm4.staticflickr.com

The gardens were a former arboretum started by the Pierce family and preserved/enhanced by Pierre DuPont. Growing up just down rte 82, I had a permanent pass, and would go there whenever I had to read or study for college. It felt like my own personal estate.

I'm under no impression that Kinkade's work will appreciate or is of any particular value from a critical standpoint, but you have to admit that it would be the perfect decoration for a 4yr old girl's room.


(Though I am considering just taking a good photograph like the one shown above, and printing THAT out and framing it, probably much cheaper)
 
2012-04-29 10:12:51 AM  
FlashHarry
i kind of want a brace of those john wayne commemorative .45 cal revolvers, though...

Every few issues Guns & Ammo gets a letter from somebody with a "commemorative" gun wanting to know what it's worth now.The answers are invariably the same: "It's not worth any more than a regular (insert gun model),even though you paid 3 times retail for some crappy machine engraving & fake gold plating".
 
2012-04-29 10:14:30 AM  

Eirik: I remember a brief fad in the 90's was to collect original animation cels, primarily from Warner Brothers since they sold them in their studio stores. There were a few folk who thought they would go way up in value, but most people I knew who were buying did it because they loved the art. IIRC, most lost value pretty fast since they were usually not that old.

/Wouldn't have minded an original Pinky & The Brain
//Couldn't afford $500
///Collect only what you love


Amen to that.

I actually have the opposite problem. I collected something I love that for years was worthless to most everyone else. Now, old video games are anything but worthless, and my collecting budget doesn't go nearly as far as it used to. Dang it.
 
pla
2012-04-29 10:19:19 AM  
John Buck 41 : It's wheat pennies for me. Some of those little farkers are worth 3 or 4 cents.

Technically, you can say that all of them have a value of 3 or 4 cents - Because they contain 3x their face value just in copper. :)


SkunkWorx : I collected something I love that for years was worthless to most everyone else. Now, old video games are anything but worthless

Heh, same here, except I only cared about the functional part, the game cartridge itself - Which gives me yet another beatdown from the icy hand of reality, since collectors of classic games mostly want the box and random packaging, not the games themselves.
 
2012-04-29 10:23:08 AM  

lenfromak: PsiChi: Speaking of results and performance, Drew, you might want to reconsider having American Apparel ads on your site. The guy in the jeans is not doing you any favors.

What guy in jeans? I'm getting two barely-legal girls in swimwear who alternate from time to time. Must be your cookies working.


Ugly biatches too. BRING BACK SNORG!
 
2012-04-29 10:23:11 AM  
Where were this guy's family and friends while he was blowing $50k on fake coins? You don't just let somebody do that. I hope at least one person in his life slapped the shiat out of him and told him "you are going to regret the fark out of this".
 
2012-04-29 10:23:15 AM  

proteus_b: i too question whether anyone can be as dumb as the letter-writer, but apparently there are such folks out there, since the franklin mint is in business.

/yes, the coins will be valuable to "collectors"
//who the fark is collecting them, other than rubes like you?
///you're better off believing a stripper when she says she's never jerked off a cock as big as yours before...


You hurt my feelings with that stripper part.
 
2012-04-29 10:24:30 AM  
Yeah but my Roy Clark commiserative plate is priceless and I still eat my mac and cheese with cut up hot dogs on it.

/sometimes a pot pie
//Banquet with double crust
 
2012-04-29 10:25:28 AM  

Riche: Damn,
[i181.photobucket.com image 352x526]

The poor bastard is out his life savings and all this columnist can do is mock him.

I don't buy into that "never give a sucker an even break" crap.

I belileve the government has a responsibility in keeping businesses and individuals from taking advantage of the desperate and foolish.

Companies like The Franklin Mint must be forced to put up huge disclaimers stating YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY in their ads if they in ANY way imply their crap is an "investment."


Oh My God......I'm off to click the voting buttons.
 
2012-04-29 10:30:46 AM  
I collect books on collecting books.
 
2012-04-29 10:32:58 AM  

Lone Stranger: Yeah but my Roy Clark commiserative plate is priceless and I still eat my mac and cheese with cut up hot dogs on it.

/sometimes a pot pie
//Banquet with double crust


Now I want a freaking pot pie. Thanks
 
2012-04-29 10:33:56 AM  
And all of you who bought animation cells 20 years ago from that place in the mall that disappeared years ago...how they working' out for ya?
 
2012-04-29 10:40:23 AM  

Devolving_Spud: And all of you who bought animation cells 20 years ago from that place in the mall that disappeared years ago...how they working' out for ya?


Previous owner of my house left behind a box of Spider-Man cartoon cels. Never priced them, but they're kind of cool.
 
2012-04-29 10:40:42 AM  
What an idiot.
he spent $47,000 on coins?!!!

The only thing I've ever collected worth any value was comics. I've been collecting for the past 40 years and have around 10,000. Some are worth absolutely nothing but I do have quite a few that are worth more than I paid for. For instance, I have a near mint copy of the first appearance of the Punisher in Amazing Spiderman which I bought way back in '74. I also have the first appearance of Mysterio. All my comics are first print.

I also have coins dating back to 1900's but those are worthless.

Yes, I am old.

/Get of my lawn.
 
2012-04-29 10:41:57 AM  
Certainly, you can sue the Franklin Mint. Frankly, it's their fault you purchased those coins, it's their fault you overpaid for the coins, it's their fault the coins did not increase in value and it's their fault the coin dealer in Troy won't give you $47,000 for your collection or the dealer in Detroit doesn't know a soul who would pay you at least $23,500 for your collection. And because it's the Franklin Mint's fault, I can't help you recover your costs. But some lawyers will do their best to get you a settlement, demanding an advance fee before they pick up a pen. However, that settlement will probably be a 20 percent discount on your next Franklin Mint purchase and no shipping charges. But any attorney I know will tell you that you don't have a chance in China for recovery.

holy crap that's a lot of snark.
 
2012-04-29 10:46:34 AM  

John Buck 41: leevis: I save any coin I find from before 1960, I needed a hobby. I probably have more than 1,000 bucks in face-value but I doubt I'll ever be retiring off of them. An early Jefferson nickel probably wouldn't go for much more than 25 or 30 cents unless it's an error coin.

It's wheat pennies for me. Some of those little farkers are worth 3 or 4 cents.


I saw a really cool little US Mint wheat penny coin die on ebay. It's an actual die stamp thingie that the mint used to make wheat pennies. Too lazy to look for the link. Just search wheat penny coin die on ebay.
 
2012-04-29 10:49:03 AM  
Actually in this case past performance is indicative of future results. If the guy had investigated before investing he would have found out what a scam this stuff is.

FlashHarry:
see the bullshiat here.


That's classic bait and switch. Why are these people not brought up on charges?
 
2012-04-29 10:51:34 AM  
I remember a usenet thread on college (yeah, I'm old enough that those were actually used for discussion) about a "rare" book that was out of print for legal reasons and how much it was "worth". $25. $50. $100. More! So a few of us who had a copy tried to sell it - I got $12 for mine and was honestly happy to get it. Similar thing happened to my comic collection - I had maybe 3-4 books worth a few bucks, and even with popular titles in great condition during popular runs, I was happy to get face value - though even then people were insisting that comic books were this awesome investment - and again, happy to get it after I'd actually gone around to dealers.

An item is worth what you can get someone to pay you for it - just because some guy heard from some guy on the internet heard some ransom item is free money - it usually isn't. Sure, some times things like original Air Jordans or other items (usually only when sold during a short frenzy window, like Magic cards) will get you some actual scratch, but usually the wacky off-market investment is just a sucker's errand and even then you still have to locate a buyer and hope to get a fair deal. There's no "turn in site".
 
2012-04-29 10:56:40 AM  
Beanie Babies were creepy. I had a boss that would go through the drive through and buy 10 happy meals at a time to get the toys- then throw all the food out.

She would be circling the parking lot the day of each new issue and rearranged her work schedule to be there. I thought she was mentally ill.

My family was struggling financially at the time and I was really bothered by throwing out dozens of fresh meals- even if they were from McDonalds.
 
2012-04-29 10:59:53 AM  

kim jong-un: tetsoushima: StoPPeRmobile: [www.michaelarnoldart.com image 500x375]
lol

I used to work at a curio shop that sold these things. I always thought they were about as classy as a dixie cup toast during a frozen pizza dinner in a double-wide trailer.

Oddly enough, we were thinking of getting just that painting, along with a 'snow-white' looking scene, but I couldn't care less if it was by Kinkade though.

The 'snow-white' house would look cute in my 4yr old daughter's room, and my wife and I spend every other weekend at Longwood Gardens, where you literally have the scene that Kinkade ripped off for that painting.

ie:

farm4.staticflickr.com

The gardens were a former arboretum started by the Pierce family and preserved/enhanced by Pierre DuPont. Growing up just down rte 82, I had a permanent pass, and would go there whenever I had to read or study for college. It felt like my own personal estate.

I'm under no impression that Kinkade's work will appreciate or is of any particular value from a critical standpoint, but you have to admit that it would be the perfect decoration for a 4yr old girl's room.


(Though I am considering just taking a good photograph like the one shown above, and printing THAT out and framing it, probably much cheaper)



Let me 'Kinkade that for you.

i48.tinypic.com

Using your original and about 30 seconds worth of PS filters.
Perhaps I'm on to something here...
 
2012-04-29 11:00:26 AM  
*Sigh*

This is such a common story. I've been collecting coins since I was a little kid. I'm glad I was dorkly fascinated enough to get numismatic magazines/literature all along the way. You really have to be vigilant and buy quality if you ever want to see a return on your investment in coins. Mine have treated me well and have even held me up in times of unemployment.

I hate these private issue medallions with a passion. Don't ever buy a coin off of television. Ever. Period. The private mint stuff is always junk with no exceptions. The crap on home shopping networks may be numismatically worthwhile, but you will be charged at least three times the fair market value.

I also take a slight bit of umbrage at the lawyer's response that coin dealers will try to swindle as a rule. There are unscrupulous ones, sure, but no more so than in any other business. You can get a plumber that takes advantage of a lack of knowledge as in any other business.

I got to help out in a coin shop some when I was in college. The dealer and I became friends. People would come in with their TV-bought junk all the time thinking it was time to "cash out". They'd always have one of two reactions to the reality of their holding's value: 1) "You're trying to rob me! This is valuable!" 2) they'd just be crushed...

A few quick rules:
1) If you happen to have some coins, maybe passed down in the family: DO NOT CLEAN THEM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. You will destroy any value they may have. A particular coin worth $200 in original condition may only net you ten bucks if you decide it needs to be "shiny". Shiny is NOT "better".
2) Pick up an issue of CoinAge or COIN WORLD. Try to identify your coins. Once you have you can begin searching eBay for similar coins and get a ballpark for the grade of the coin (state of preservation) and thus, it's rough value.
3) When selling to a dealer, please realize you can never get the value printed in a price guide. That price guide is the "retail" value. Dealers have to make money... that's the whole idea. In the same vein, if you happen to have a coin that is rare enough, throw that price guide out the window and the sky is the limit. There are some things listed for $900 that you can't find for less than $2500.

Blah blah. Sorry for the long post. Coin collecting is a weird path and you really must invest the time in learning... just like the stock market or any other investment.

If you're just a hobbyist and like low value stuff, don't worry about it so much =)
 
2012-04-29 11:01:05 AM  
I can't pass up a garage sale because I love old records so much. Gotta get 'em for 25 cents so I don't feel bad on the money I'm probably losing.

Just got a huge haul of 5,000 freebies last year (4,000 of which were old 78s). The guy thought he could turn them around for a profit, discovered how difficult and time/space consuming that is, and needed to clear his storage space being paid for by his now ex-girlfriend. In I step to save them from the garbage dump! Maybe half of them were ones I'd like to listen to, so for free (and I have a huge basement), the price was right, and there were 2 first-pressings of Livery Stable Blues by the Original Dixieland Jass Band in maybe VG- shape. I might get $10 for each of them if I tried real hard? (I saw a NM- copy on e-bay go for $102.50.) I probably spent more on gas going to get these records over two trips one county away than they're worth...but at least I love them. LOVE them.

Coins and plates and shiat like that? I don't understand at all. At least I can play the stuff I hoard...
 
2012-04-29 11:01:17 AM  

Rapmaster2000: That was way too dumb to be real.


You'd be surprised. I've seen this story with my own eyes countless times. =(
 
2012-04-29 11:02:52 AM  
After reading the article, I dislike the author more than I dislike the Franklin Mint. It takes a real talented author to kick the elderly when they are down. Next he will up his game and critique a 4th grade debate team.
 
2012-04-29 11:05:57 AM  
There's a bald guy in Vegas who may be able to help in out.
 
2012-04-29 11:06:36 AM  
Speaking of coins, I found a bunch of US issued pesos dating from the 1800s in my grandfather's stash. Most look to be in pretty good condition with the only wear looking to be from sitting in his sock drawer for a couple of decades. I've now got them sitting in a safe at the bank.

They will probably sit there till someone cleans out my stuff 60 years from now unless I can find an appraiser I can trust.
 
2012-04-29 11:08:22 AM  
One of the bigger problems that we'll have in the next twenty to thirty years is more scams like this. A lot of people who fall for this grew up when television was a new thing and still have some perverse hold on believing that if it's transmitted via television that it must automatically be true. It's the same mindset that makes people watch Fox News and believe it without questioning a single thing. These are also the people who keep crowing about shrinking the government so these scams can go on for as long as possible, leaving the scammed without any legal recourse.

That said, the market for collectibles has always been downright strange. I happened to cash in on some of mine a few years back and often got more than what I paid for them and felt like I came out a bandit. That said, the reason I was selling them off was because I realized what a farking scam it was and wanted to recoup some of my losses. Moral: recognize the difference between actual collecting (with no hope of seeing that money back because you want the item), actual investing (which you shouldn't be doing in a retail establishment in the first farking place), and hoarding.
 
2012-04-29 11:08:57 AM  
Was watching TV yesterday and there was a programme where some "experts" go in and help hoarders clear out all their old stuff, sell it and makeover their house with the proceeds.

There was some poor middle-aged guy who basically wanted to be left alone but for some reason had agreed to be ridiculed by a TV crew and his brother. He'd been collecting everything and anything for years and had thousands of TV guide magazines which he thought would be worth money one day.

Expert: "This is the most valuable one in your collection. It's 50 years old and you can buy it on eBay for under £10. Everything else is worth nothing because nobody wants it. Is it really worth waiting 50 years for something to increase in value to £10?"
Sad guy: "That's just your opinion"

Guy clearly had some mental health issues. Don't know what the TV crew were thinking of.
 
2012-04-29 11:14:41 AM  
came for

28.media.tumblr.com


-or-

encrypted-tbn0.google.com

refrences...

/leaving dissapointed
 
2012-04-29 11:16:39 AM  
Anyone else remember ads from the 1980s for the "Bradford Exchange," a stock-market-like trading floor for collector plates--just like the ones the ad was selling--where plates were sold as commodities?

They made it sound like some of the collector plates were in desperate demand. All creepy.
 
2012-04-29 11:19:08 AM  
Fake letter is fake.
Amazing to me that it isn't obvious to everyone.
Sarcasm & joking don't work on the internet, apparently.
 
2012-04-29 11:19:13 AM  
I sometimes feel bad about gloating over these peoples misfortunes . They should have invested in Billy Beer cans like me . Then we could all lounge around the study and light our cigars with hundered dollar bills .
 
2012-04-29 11:23:10 AM  
dilbert.com

dilbert.com
 
2012-04-29 11:25:05 AM  
If you buy a product because of an ad you are a sucker. There are a lot of them out there. I count the magnetic (power balance) bracelets i see at the airport. Lots of suckers out there. Rich and poor. Greed is universal along with gullibility.

There are far worse scams. We have pyramid scams advertising in the open! Those are major scams that steal more than $49.99 plus shipping. Law, diet, medical and loan scams are common and seem to make up the bulk of ads today. I thought prescriptions were bad enough, but at least that has to be FDA approved. If the website changes as often as the ad, its a scam. Looking at you crazyfox, newamericanow, workfromhome1, etc. These often steal large amounts of money before the investigation is even started. Never mind the damage they may cause in the medical area and the disinformation they further. In addition to downright dangerous products like heaters that have never passed any standard safety tests.

The government agencies need to update their policies and bust ass on fraud. Rather than looking for the F-bomb the FCC should restrict advertising on TV and radio, the FDA needs to kick sham medicine and its quacks (DR. OZ and like) in the nuts, fallowed by the FTC going after these people as well as those that fund them. One reason I still HATE citigroup and anything to do with those crooks. It will never happen. It takes hard work, congress that can focus on real issues and policy making that takes on the flexibility of the scams. That's not counting the corruption.

/got some gold bricks in my trunk if you wanna see.
 
2012-04-29 11:25:33 AM  

Begoggle: Fake letter is fake.
Amazing to me that it isn't obvious to everyone.
Sarcasm & joking don't work on the internet, apparently.


I balk at the total amount spent in this story... but I've seen this happen so many times. Go to a coin shop. They can be like "Cheers" where the old farts sit around and talk coins. Sit there on any given Saturday and I guarantee you someone will come in with crap off of TV and that they'll be shocked that it's worthless.

Hell I'd be willing to bet a pure mil clad gold prooflike premium quality faux genunie replica double eagle gold piece tribute on it.
 
2012-04-29 11:29:57 AM  
mikeguyver
came for
refrences...

/leaving dissapointed


South Park hasn't been relevant for at least 3 years now..
 
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