Right we have no capabilities.....go ahead an think that.....it's EXACTLY what we want.

People should read up on the capabilities of what our attack/ballistic nuclear subs can do. You don't need to steam into the middle of the Arctic to launch a cruise missile.


Tom Clancy wrote a good about subs. Go read it and be afraid.

ciberido: steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

You forgot the Caribbean queen.

The phrase the 7 seas implies considering the Atlantic and Pacific to each be 2 oceans with a north and south half.

Even though the Equator doesn't make each of them 2 oceans oceanologically speaking, for military porposes I guess it kinda does (ie we have a shiat ton of bases in North Atlantic and north Pacific, South Atlantic and South Pacific not as much)

BronyMedic: The United States' fleet of nuclear hunter-killer and ballistic missile submarines balks at this article.

So does the U.S. Coast Guard

Translation FTA: We still rule the artic, but we have to rely on those damn coasties to do it and that's just unacceptable! Give us more toys!

Seriously. This is not going to keep me up at night.

scumshine: I'd like to point out that the US Coast Guard has the icebreakers Healy, Polar Star, and Polar Sea. The Healy takes scientists to the north polar regions annually. Because of their age, the Polar series ships are soon to be de-commissioned which will leave the US government with very few icebreakers left in inventory.For over 100 years, the USCG has gained plenty of cold weather operational experience, they have developed excellent cold weather clothing and the special communications equipment required for the region. Also, they have trained crews flying rotary and fixed wing aircraft adapted to cold weather operations and cold water divers and rescue teams.

The swab jockeys over at the Pentagon ought to vist with the Coast Guard and get schooled.

I think the USGS Polar Star is currently in the midst of being re-activated, after being deactivated in 2006.

steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

North Atlantic
South Atlantic
North Pacific
South Pacific
Southern (Antarctic)
Indian
Arctic

Just you wait.

Liberals agree. Kill America

BronyMedic: Tricky Chicken: Ummm, the Coasties aren't military. Para-military maybe, but not military. They have police powers unlike the military and are organized under the DHS not DOD.

In order to apprehend drug smugglers, Navy ships need to have a CG officer aboard to make it all legal like.

Not sure if troll or...

The men and women of the United States Coast Guard are considered uniformed services under Federal Law. They are military, subject to the same code of conduct and law as the military under the UCMJ, and able to participate in conflict the same as the United States Navy. Individuals in the coast guard are authorized to wear military awards and decorations the same as any other branch, and have done some pretty damn heroic things in combat.

The only difference is that they are exempt from Posse Comitatus because of their status as a DHS agency, not under the DOD. And Posse Comitatus does not prevent military forces from assisting Law Enforcement, only from enacting arrests.

And the USCG can be transferred to the DoD as a service in the Department of the Navy in wartime or whenever the President feels like. That last happened in WW2.

steerforth: ciberido: steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

You forgot the Caribbean queen.

The Caribbean Queen is better described as a sea, or in maritime terminology, an expanse of water that has made a lifestyle choice.

This made me laugh unreasonably loud and long.

Unoriginal_Username: Evilhippie: What the Danish Navy may look like:

[cdn.marineinsight.com image 400x300]

[www.demotivationalposters.org image 640x469]
Just a little cooler then the Canadian counter part

Haha! That's so farking hilarious. It never gets old. Really, never at all. Especially considering that the emblem on the side of that little boat is the mirror image US Coast Guard emblem. But yeah, it never gets old.

So now I guess that other meme, the one of the guy wearing the hockey helmet sitting in a canoe holding a rifle, can now be changed to read US Navy.

Seven oceans?

Ok, I have to go to Alaska to kick an editor in the nuts and biatch slap a writer.....

Nem Wan: Just you wait.

I initially read that lower left text as "Somali Pirate", and thought....whoa, those guys are persistent.

yeah because we never go to the arctic

JackCanuck: steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

North Atlantic
South Atlantic
North Pacific
South Pacific
Southern (Antarctic)
Indian
Arctic

Wrong again! There's no such thing as a Southern ocean.
It's called South Atlantic/Pacific.

It isn't so much about the "Northwest Passage" as it is about oil. Russia has been making aggressive moves there in order to get a jump on the rest of the countries in the region. The US doesn't really have the capability to counter that.

At some point our government might want the Navy to get into the area. That's why the planners have to consider things like this.

Hold a bake sale, dickwads

Obviously the US is not spending enough on its military.

McManus_brothers: Smackledorfer: McManus_brothers: Tricky Chicken: McManus_brothers: I like how the article thinks it's a big deal that the US Navy would have to rely on Coast Guard assistance in any Arctic operations. Uh, it's all one military, no? There is such a thing as inter-service operations. Plus, the USCG's active strength is about 42,000; the combined strength of the Canadian and Danish navies is about 12,000. (Russia is a different story.)

Ummm, the Coasties aren't military. Para-military maybe, but not military. They have police powers unlike the military and are organized under the DHS not DOD.

In order to apprehend drug smugglers, Navy ships need to have a CG officer aboard to make it all legal like.

Ah, that's right, they're DHS now. I guess that renders my entire post pointless, because law enforcement and military are completely incapable of joint operations.

He didn't say it renders your post pointless. Don't get so upset at the inaccuracy in your post being pointed out.

Granted, it's a Sunday morning and I need coffee, but as others in the thread have pointed out, I'm technically correct in referring to the USCG as a branch of the US military.

To claim the CG is a military branch is misleading at best. They are a unique hybrid of para-military and police. They can detain civilians and enforce maritime laws. No Navy sailor can detain you (perhaps on a military base). If you break maritime law, the CG can take you into custody. The unique status of the CG has caused them no end of headaches. Currently, one of their major challenges is with procurement. They no longer get their ships the same way the Navy gets theirs, or the way the Army gets tanks. They use a civilian private company (ABS) to oversee their shipbuilding inspections, but ABS does not work with weapon systems. Their ships are more and more based upon commercial designs.

As far as interoperability, try taking a civilian vehicle and add on an AEGIS suite then coordinate with a military unit. Or take a Chevy Tahoe, and bolt a cannon to the roof and perform maneuvers with the army.

The CG has been screwed by lumping them in with the DHS. Their mission has been co-opted to be more police force than it ever was in the past. This will make it very hard for them in they ever need to focus on a more military function.

Oh noes!!! Now I'm scared!!! We must immediately cut funding for education, infrastructure, and research and funnel all monies to defense spending!!! Oh, and tax cuts for the job creators!!!

Master of his own.

Zombie-Tordenskjold sneers at your puny navy.

Lsherm: opiumpoopy: BronyMedic: The United States' fleet of nuclear hunter-killer and ballistic missile submarines balks at this article.

Fine while they're hidden in deep water. If the US navy wants to operate surface ships in Canada's waters, they need to ask. Politely.

Uh huh. Right up until Russia starts laying their balls all over the waterways they consider "theirs."

Then all the money Canada doesn't spend on its military is going to translate into the usual whiny request for Uncle Sam to come settle the situation.

/Canada: all talk because they hide behind the big dog
//The big dog spending all the money

I guess that makes you suckers.

What is the 'sad' tag for? because the only industry america has left is the military?

BronyMedic: Tricky Chicken: Ummm, the Coasties aren't military. Para-military maybe, but not military. They have police powers unlike the military and are organized under the DHS not DOD.

In order to apprehend drug smugglers, Navy ships need to have a CG officer aboard to make it all legal like.

Not sure if troll or...

The men and women of the United States Coast Guard are considered uniformed services under Federal Law.

Does this mean that the officers of NOAA and the US Public Health Services are military?? They're the two uniformed services that everyone seems to forget about.

Is the sad because there only 4 oceans?

Gough: BronyMedic: Tricky Chicken: Ummm, the Coasties aren't military. Para-military maybe, but not military. They have police powers unlike the military and are organized under the DHS not DOD.

In order to apprehend drug smugglers, Navy ships need to have a CG officer aboard to make it all legal like.

Not sure if troll or...

The men and women of the United States Coast Guard are considered uniformed services under Federal Law.

Does this mean that the officers of NOAA and the US Public Health Services are military?? They're the two uniformed services that everyone seems to forget about.

Coast guard is treated as a member of armed services by the DoD at least. They were at a tactical summit I was at and we've been sent out to help them do stuff under a DISA contract. 10 U.S.C. § 101(a)(4) Federal law also agrees they are military.

Trivia: There are 7 uniformed services, 5 are considered military. NOAA and Public Health are the non military uniformed services.

scumshine: I'd like to point out that the US Coast Guard has the icebreakers Healy, Polar Star, and Polar Sea.
The swab jockeys over at the Pentagon ought to vist with the Coast Guard and get schooled.

Back in the day of wooden ships and iron men, my Dad sailed on a CG cutter to McMurdo Sound. He was part of the new "helicopter groups" replacing the blimps during the late 50's/early 60's. The powers that be decided to send a group of helicopters to the South Pole but the only way to get there was by CG ships and icebreakers.

/my uncle was stationed in Nevada, laughing about my Dad freezing in the cold war while he was basking in the warm glow of American superiority.

xaldin: Gough: BronyMedic: Tricky Chicken: Ummm, the Coasties aren't military. Para-military maybe, but not military. They have police powers unlike the military and are organized under the DHS not DOD.

In order to apprehend drug smugglers, Navy ships need to have a CG officer aboard to make it all legal like.

Not sure if troll or...

The men and women of the United States Coast Guard are considered uniformed services under Federal Law.

Does this mean that the officers of NOAA and the US Public Health Services are military?? They're the two uniformed services that everyone seems to forget about.

Coast guard is treated as a member of armed services by the DoD at least. They were at a tactical summit I was at and we've been sent out to help them do stuff under a DISA contract. 10 U.S.C. § 101(a)(4) Federal law also agrees they are military.

Trivia: There are 7 uniformed services, 5 are considered military. NOAA and Public Health are the non military uniformed services.

Thanks, I hadn't seen the distinction between "armed forces" and "uniformed services" clarified as well as in 101(a)(4).

During the Soviet era, Arctic warfare was a big deal. A sub popping up through the ice above the Arctic Circle, launching an ICBM - just one of the Soviet ICBM missiles at the time could take out 20 cities/targets (it had 20 warheads) - and dropping back down again, was a scary proposition; considering from launch to impact was just minutes.

And sub warfare in the Arctic entails a whole different level of thinking - among other things you have the 3D topology of the underside of the pack ice to deal with.

Not arguing for/against, just pointing out it requires a special skill set, equipment and training. But if you actually read the article, their emphasis was not on some cold war scenario, but on:

search and rescue, oil spill response, maritime domain and maritime safety and security issues

If anyone is old enough - think 'Thresher' Link

Short version - the US lost a sub, and realized after the fact that: 1. their safety measures sucked, 2. there was nothing in place to effect a possible rescue if a sub was crippled and the crew were trapped.

My take: the article is saying there will be economic expansion in the Arctic - sooner rather than later - and that the US Navy is not ready for it. To understate the obvious: there are currently a lot of things broken in the Washington/Armed Forces relationship - changes in spending are typically not proactive.

/BTW some of the most squared-away sailors I ever had the privilege of working with were from the Canadian Navy.

superdude72: In other news: The American telecommunications network is incapable of delivering 5Mbps speeds to my house for less than $100 per month. This is far more detrimental than the Navy's lack of icebreakers, but the Navy has more political clout so I'll bet they get the fanciest icebreakers money can buy.



One is private industry and one is government. Would you like the government to upgrade the telecommunications in America? Good luck, because it would add to the debt and Republicans would pitch a fit.

steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy (but funny)
?

There are only 4 oceans. The "southern ocean" is part Indian, Atlantic and Pacific.

Oldiron_79: military porposes

theMagni: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: You just know the Navy's solution will be a carbon-fiber/unobtainium hybrid stealth icebreaker/drone shooter with railguns and transparent aluminum bridge, that'll do 80 knots through 10 feet of ice without leaving a trail, and the first time they deploy it, they'll find out that it can't be operated while it's snowing.

I see you've seen navy specs before.

"Admiral, once again, you cannot have a combined refueller / amphibious assault craft / command ship / hospital / helicopter depot.

"It's ridiculous, that's why!"

"Why the hell not? The Army got a combined APC/tank destroyer/amphibious scout car/command car, didn't they?

Oldiron_79: ciberido: steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

You forgot the Caribbean queen.

The phrase the 7 seas implies considering the Atlantic and Pacific to each be 2 oceans with a north and south half.

Even though the Equator doesn't make each of them 2 oceans oceanologically speaking, for military porposes I guess it kinda does (ie we have a shiat ton of bases in North Atlantic and north Pacific, South Atlantic and South Pacific not as much)

If only the Seven Seas was not referring to any of the Oceans. Then you might be right.

By the way, is it now possible for a ship to travel the northwest passage thru the Arctic ocean without icebreakers at some point in the summer season? If not, I'm tired of hearing about the new trade route.

yes, it is.
Here is more information.

FTFA:The game's conclusions: The Navy is not adequately prepared to conduct long-term maritime Arctic operations; Arctic weather conditions increase the risk of failure; and, most critically, to operate in the Arctic, the Navy will need to lean on the U.S. Coast Guard, countries like Russia or Canada, or tribal and industrial partners.

When the they have to go to Eskimo villages to ask for help, you can no claim our Navy is superior.

Fano: steerforth: Seven oceans?

Pacific
Atlantic
Indian
Southern
Arctic
Billy
?

La-otian

2 Naval Officers have been to the Ocean of Storms. Of course it's been around 40 years since anyone's been there. Since we were the last ( and only), I'd say that's our 7th ocean.

/That's until China decides to go.