bearcats1983: ongbok: They should just trick them into thinking the Rapture has started by blasting trumpets over a loud speaker.

Really enjoyed that movie. I thought the ending was a little "thrown together", but, overall, thought it was a good watch.

That wasn't the original ending. In the original ending the Rapture starts and everybody is killed by angels except for John Goodman and the Four Horsemen descend. However there wasn't enough money in the budget for that ending.

gimmegimme: FatalDischarge: I still cannot believe religion is still around.

If there is no god, then people will have to be responsible for what they do and they'll have no way to atone for the harm they cause on this planet.

That's why so many terrible people are so terribly religious.

I always thought of it as terrible people wanting others to be religious.

Many religions include the idea that people will get what's coming to them in the afterlife (or the next incarnation, in the case of Hinduism) - and if people believe the powerful but evil will get their comeuppance in the hereafter, it blunts the urge to rise up and give it to them in the here and now.

Along the same lines, most religions tend to be bent to the support of the social order of the day ("Whatever is, is right," as Alexander Pope stated it), to encourage those on the low end of the pecking order to believe that them getting shiat on is according to some subtle divine plan beyond mortal comprehension - and to tie it back to your point, such a belief soothes what pangs of conscience the top dogs may occasionally suffer when they get too clear a glimpse of the plight of the underdogs.

austin_millbarge: ongbok: 2wolves: J. Frank Parnell: they used incendiary grenades

Citation please.

In other words they used flash bangs and smoke grenades, which is usually done to disorientate people before you try to breach a fortified compound. Those grenades inadvertently ignited stuff in the compound causing the fire. They didn't throw some type of fire grenades into the compound to purposely burn it down like some people want to believe.

I think the ATF should have tried more to talk people out, especially the children, instead trying to breach so soon, but in no way do I think they were purposely trying to burn the place down and kill everybody like some people want to believe.

A lot of people DO tend to believe the truth, except you obviously.

I guess you believe in the Bilderberg group also.

austin_millbarge: sunlion: I think the Bush Admin really screwed up when they targeted Koresh. That's one the Bush people will never be able to live down.


What bush people might look like.

Are those more of Obama's sons?

fanbladesaresharp: "He was to be feared," said former member Isaac Alexander. "You didn't talk to him, you didn't even look at him."

Just trip him or throw rocks at him. What is he going to do about it?

Smite you?

2wolves: J. Frank Parnell: they used incendiary grenades

Citation please.

Ok.

J. Frank Parnell: 2wolves: J. Frank Parnell: they used incendiary grenades

Citation please.

Ok.

From your link: "Officials of the FBI and Justice Department admitted Wednesday that tear gas grenades with potentially incendiary effect were used"

Not the same thing at all.

Wish to try again?

2wolves: Fark It: if the FBI burns the women and children to death this time, too.

Nice troll attempt.

4.5/10

Yeah. Some of the women and children were shot or run over by the tank.

ongbok: 2wolves: J. Frank Parnell: they used incendiary grenades

Citation please.

In other words they used flash bangs and smoke grenades, which is usually done to disorientate people before you try to breach a fortified compound. Those grenades inadvertently ignited stuff in the compound causing the fire. They didn't throw some type of fire grenades into the compound to purposely burn it down like some people want to believe.

I think the ATF should have tried more to talk people out, especially the children, instead trying to breach so soon, but in no way do I think they were purposely trying to burn the place down and kill everybody like some people want to believe.

Ummm... they didn't want to talk them out. When Koresh heard that the FBI/BATF was looking for him, he offered to go down to their office. They declined. Their budget hearings were coming up and they had to put on a show.

ongbok: 2wolves: J. Frank Parnell: they used incendiary grenades

Citation please.

In other words they used flash bangs and smoke grenades, which is usually done to disorientate people before you try to breach a fortified compound. Those grenades inadvertently ignited stuff in the compound causing the fire. They didn't throw some type of fire grenades into the compound to purposely burn it down like some people want to believe.

I think the ATF should have tried more to talk people out, especially the children, instead trying to breach so soon, but in no way do I think they were purposely trying to burn the place down and kill everybody like some people want to believe.

Then you obviously don't know what happened. See the documentaries "Waco: A New Revelation" or "Waco: The Rules of Engagement"

Trance750: This is why all religions need to be policed and survailenced, if not outright banned

bingo! after a lifetime of observing i've come to the same conclusion. people are too easily manipulated. that is why governments get away with what they do - that, and the multiple levels of armed thugs they have surrounded themselves with.

What? Again?!

The doctrine is that the leadership is put in place by God himself and speaks authoritatively, as speaking the very word of God," Beechner said.

Before gaining acceptance, adults go through several months of screening and ultimately must sign a covenant of silence.

According to Homestead's membership contract, the aspiring members agree "to never bring before the public outside our church... any accusations or wrongdoing or any charge, lawsuit or court action." Agreeing "that all disputes be settled within the confines of the church."... and in return... "the church agrees to never expose a member's shortcomings and sins to any outside it's covenant."

When you have any religious group or cult which not only requires screenings, but demands secrecy dealing with outsiders, deals in assorted severe punishments to unfaithful members and the leader mainly rules like a dictator -- common sense should tell you NOT to join.

I have a vague theory why some folks just march into such cults, but it's incomplete and too long to go into here. Usually such cults have a core group which acts like storm troopers to keep the flock in line. All refuse non-members and outsiders from finding out about internal operations and guidelines -- and some, like the Mormons, refuse all but the most senior and loyal members access to the church archives.