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(Some Guy (links to WSJ op-ed))   Your state taxes are going up (way up) because the guy who dropped out of high school at 17 to work on a garbage truck got to retire at 37 with pay and benefits for life. Move along, citizen   (volokh.com) divider line 277
    More: Asinine, Manhattan Institute, Steve Malanga, garbage trucks, property taxes  
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5857 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Apr 2012 at 6:08 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-28 06:34:42 PM

quatchi: GOP says Pensions are bad but golden parachutes, multi-million dollar payout for a couple weeks work and excessive CEO salaries are good.

Fark the GOP for that and also the WSJ for becoming a total caricature of it's former self since Murdoch got his corrupt old mitts on it.

/DNRTFA.
//Read too many like it before.


Before Murdoch bought it out, I knew the WSJ's reporting was trustworthy, even though I disagreed with its editorial page. If I saw someone reading it, I assumed he had to be a somewhat intelligent person. Then, Murdoch bought it. And it started publishing sh*t like this:

Link

Now when I see someone reading WSJ, I think to myself, "that guy probably also considers Fox News 'fair and balanced.' Prima facie and conclusive proof he's an idiot."
 
2012-04-28 06:36:04 PM

cig-mkr: Is the military still doing the 20 and out?


It can depend on rank and what you're doing. I have an uncle who did almost 30; ended up being a Command Sergeant Major.

/Not bad work if you can deal with it
 
2012-04-28 06:36:42 PM
Looks like Fark won't let me link to WSJ anymore. Here's the URL for the article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121755336096303089.html

It's an editorial masquerading as a news article opining that Obama would lose in 2008 because of his physical fitness. It is beyond stupid.
 
2012-04-28 06:37:36 PM

Arthur Jumbles: No subby...... the garbageman and most other government workers paid into their pension with every paycheck they earned. Instead of having money taken out for social security, which they don't get, the money was placed into a pension fund for their retirement.....

Well..... it was supposed to go into a pension fund..... however a lot of cities and state governments thought they could use that money for other things and so they paid the funds with IOUs, which are now coming due as workers start to retire. The workers did nothing wrong and they deserve to get their full pensions


fark EM
arrest the people who stole from the pension funds and fark the people who let them steal from teh pensions
 
2012-04-28 06:37:51 PM
GOP retirement plan:
Work until you die. Or go to prison and die.

/this will be known as the "fark you, I got mine" century.
 
2012-04-28 06:43:29 PM
No ss here.

Enron stole most of the teacher pensions, also.
 
2012-04-28 06:46:20 PM

Giltric: NJ teachers and NY cops pay into both ss and pension funds and get to collect both.


If you pay in you should get it.


I agree; I'm a public employee and have been paying both retirement (mandatory, taken out of my paycheck whether I want it or not) and SS for nearly 30 years now. Fortunately our retirement fund manager didn't p*ss it away in some hedge fund, but I won't be able to access SS until I'm in my 60's.
 
2012-04-28 06:49:15 PM

Ennuipoet: You know what Subby, if the guy was farkin' garbage man for 20 years, he showed up to work and picked up shiat five days a week for 20 frakin' years...he deserves every dime he gets. Jesus, people saying mind boggling stupid shiat like this really make we want to cockpunch every Republican I meet, which mean I would have to cockpunch my Dad and I am pretty sure he can still kick my ass.


I'm not a Republican, but... no. Public pension plans in this country are farked beyond reason. The Oregonian had an article today about the number of employees who receive Oregon state employee pensions but ALSO work. Their pension DOES NOT DECREASE. MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE RETIRED FROM THE STATE, BUT CURRENTLY WORK STATE JOBS. Being able to walk and chew gum does not mean you deserve a retirement that exceeds the salary of the majority of workers in the state.

And, no, Wisconsin is not doing it right, either.
 
2012-04-28 06:51:34 PM
And, yes, if you pay into a pension plan, you should reap any rewards. Clearly, that's not the issue in states where pensions are really, really hurting the bottom line. In those states, the problem has to do with how much the STATE pays into the plans, not the employees.
 
2012-04-28 06:51:52 PM

bugontherug: Before Murdoch bought it out, I knew the WSJ's reporting was trustworthy, even though I disagreed with its editorial page. If I saw someone reading it, I assumed he had to be a somewhat intelligent person. Then, Murdoch bought it. And it started publishing sh*t like this: Link

Now when I see someone reading WSJ, I think to myself, "that guy probably also considers Fox News 'fair and balanced.' Prima facie and conclusive proof he's an idiot."


Too fit to be President?

[wtfamireading.jpg]

Wow, just wow. That's farked up.

I used to read the WSJ as well but after Murdoch bought it I had to stop.

It didn't take very long at all to go straight to hell.
 
2012-04-28 06:52:55 PM
Most (like 95+%) of private businesses dropped pensions in the last twenty years because of the rigors and accounting requirements of conmplying with federal accounting rules to maintain the retirement fund balance.

Local, State and Federal rules didn't need to comply so that they could continue to maintain promises they knew they couldn't uphold but secure those sweet, sweet dem union votes.

Welcome home chickens.
 
2012-04-28 06:54:23 PM

puffy999: And, no, Wisconsin is not doing it right, either.


WI uses a deferred compensation system that has a zero taxpayer burden.
 
2012-04-28 06:54:25 PM
Also, Bill Gates has been paying into SS, as well. I do not believe he deserves to ever receive a Social Security check.

Obviously, if you have a $1,000/month tiny pension, you should be getting Social Security. But if your pension is around $5-$10k a month, or more, I can think of many others who are more deserving of Social Security.
 
2012-04-28 06:55:26 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: puffy999: And, no, Wisconsin is not doing it right, either.

WI uses a deferred compensation system that has a zero taxpayer burden.


I meant the Republicans' gross over-reaction to their perceived problems with unions, public employees, etc.

They went way, way too far.
 
2012-04-28 06:55:31 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Most (like 95+%) of private businesses dropped pensions in the last twenty years because of the rigors and accounting requirements of conmplying with federal accounting rules to maintain the retirement fund balance.


No, they did it because 401K's are a cheaper way to handle it. No need to make that anymore complex than it is.
 
2012-04-28 06:55:38 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Most (like 95+%) of private businesses dropped pensions in the last twenty years because of the rigors and accounting requirements of conmplying with federal accounting rules to maintain the retirement fund balance.


You have to do the same amount of accounting with 401K accounts, which is what took over the employee pensions for most people.
 
2012-04-28 06:56:40 PM

Lillith: What do you mean "Instead" I am fairly sure that they do pay SS and will get it in time.


The municipalities in Colorado that belong to PERA (which is not all municipalities either), which is the state retirement fund do not pay SS tax (I think CalPers is the same). Assuming that you don't also work another job long enough to qualify fo SS, you don't get it.
 
2012-04-28 06:56:54 PM

puffy999: And, yes, if you pay into a pension plan, you should reap any rewards. Clearly, that's not the issue in states where pensions are really, really hurting the bottom line. In those states, the problem has to do with how much the STATE pays into the plans, not the employees.


related to that is the fact that 1. many states are being crunched by corporations moving jobs overseas and 2. the housing market implosion thwacked housing prices quite a bit, which hurt property taxes which in turn reduced budgets all around the country.

that's part of the story nobody wants to mention though - when we let corporations move jobs overseas, we put younger workers out of work in droves. And people out of work don't pay taxes. don't pay taxes, the state can't make payroll, and it can't pay out pensions and it can't make budget. The housing market implosion didn't help matters any either...as property values took a nosedive and foreclosure rates went up, state and local governments made less in property (and other) taxes.

all of this rolls up into a giant ball of suckitude. states are getting hammered as corporations demand more and more tax breaks, revenue is shrinking, and budgets get tighter every year.
 
2012-04-28 06:57:26 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Local, State and Federal rules didn't need to comply so that they could continue to maintain promises they knew they couldn't uphold but secure those sweet, sweet dem union votes.


Meanwhile, the voting dynamic in this nation is controlled by conservatives in their sixties and above, who believe that minorities, gays, women, and younger people are evil and don't deserve any ability to chime in on how this nation should steer itself.
 
2012-04-28 06:59:37 PM

puffy999: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Local, State and Federal rules didn't need to comply so that they could continue to maintain promises they knew they couldn't uphold but secure those sweet, sweet dem union votes.

Meanwhile, the voting dynamic in this nation is controlled by conservatives in their sixties and above, who believe that minorities, gays, women, and younger people are evil and don't deserve any ability to chime in on how this nation should steer itself.


and again, there's also a corporate press that seems more interested in celebrity fashion than discussing touchy issues like the failed war on drugs and why the hell are we still involved in wars in the middle east?
 
2012-04-28 06:59:45 PM

puffy999: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Local, State and Federal rules didn't need to comply so that they could continue to maintain promises they knew they couldn't uphold but secure those sweet, sweet dem union votes.

Meanwhile, the voting dynamic in this nation is controlled by conservatives in their sixties and above, who believe that minorities, gays, women, and younger people are evil and don't deserve any ability to chime in on how this nation should steer itself.


You're stupid if you think this is age-based. Conservatives are not going to die off.

Conservatives come in all ages. There are fresh young crops of them being raised in every fundamentalist church in the country.
 
2012-04-28 07:00:42 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Conservatives come in all ages. There are fresh young crops of them being raised in every fundamentalist church in the country.


lucky for us they're in the minority. not to mention that their politics doesn't play well outside of the GOP echo chamber.
 
2012-04-28 07:01:11 PM

puffy999: LouDobbsAwaaaay: puffy999: And, no, Wisconsin is not doing it right, either.

WI uses a deferred compensation system that has a zero taxpayer burden.

I meant the Republicans' gross over-reaction to their perceived problems with unions, public employees, etc.

They went way, way too far.


Agreed, but that goes without saying. They're republicans. That's what they do. The "deficit" Walker used as precedent to strip rights from working people was the hole he himself blew in the budget with his corporate tax giveaways, which have so far netted us negative job growth and placed us dead last in the country. He then declared the problem "fixed", then admitted to Congress that stripping rights does nothing to fix the budget, then declared it un-fixed to dodge new HCR laws.
 
2012-04-28 07:02:08 PM
I'm just going to leave this here....

graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2012-04-28 07:03:52 PM

bugontherug: Looks like Fark won't let me link to WSJ anymore. Here's the URL for the article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121755336096303089.html

It's an editorial masquerading as a news article opining that Obama would lose in 2008 because of his physical fitness. It is beyond stupid.


It's crap like that that created the "this is bad news....for Obama" meme.
 
2012-04-28 07:05:00 PM

puffy999: Also, Bill Gates has been paying into SS, as well. I do not believe he deserves to ever receive a Social Security check.

Obviously, if you have a $1,000/month tiny pension, you should be getting Social Security. But if your pension is around $5-$10k a month, or more, I can think of many others who are more deserving of Social Security.



And they get it if they paid into it. I too paid into my SS and I expect to get it regardless of my pension size (projected to be ~$6k a month when retire in 15 years). I expect benefits to be ~$3k a month and as such will constitute a significant portion of my expected income.


Or are you advocating means testing and a separate Senior Welfare program?
 
2012-04-28 07:08:47 PM
That said, I don't think public pension plans should allow for double dipping (especially when you leave one state job for another) and shouldn't use overtime as a factor when calculating benefits.
 
2012-04-28 07:10:39 PM
Remember kids, only Republicans are allowed to have any money at all.
 
2012-04-28 07:11:35 PM
This exemplifies the upside-down philosophy of the American worker with a crappy pension and pathetic benefits. Instead of fighting for a good pension and decent benefits he's rather tear down those workers who have good pensions and benefits and educe them to his level. It's time for the American worker to demand and receive a greater share of the profits that are earned on their backs.
 
2012-04-28 07:12:47 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: OK, I'll bite... is there a reason why subby didn't link straight to the WSJ article?


Linking to WSJ from Fark requires registration to read the article. That extra step prevented that requirement.
 
2012-04-28 07:14:01 PM

runwiz: This exemplifies the upside-down philosophy of the American worker with a crappy pension and pathetic benefits. Instead of fighting for a good pension and decent benefits he's rather tear down those workers who have good pensions and benefits and educe them to his level. .


...and then call the resultant mess 'equality', and scream bloody murder if someone dares suggest that maybe we might want to make sure corporations pay their taxes for a change.
 
2012-04-28 07:15:27 PM

Mrtraveler01: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Most (like 95+%) of private businesses dropped pensions in the last twenty years because of the rigors and accounting requirements of conmplying with federal accounting rules to maintain the retirement fund balance.

No, they did it because 401K's are a cheaper way to handle it. No need to make that anymore complex than it is.


No, they feds made sure that corporations (even when they weren't) couldn't underfund pensions but reserved that right for government.
 
2012-04-28 07:16:01 PM
Your state taxes are going up (way up)

I can't tell if this was intentional or not, but I'll call Rusty anyway.
 
2012-04-28 07:17:06 PM

puffy999: Ennuipoet: You know what Subby, if the guy was farkin' garbage man for 20 years, he showed up to work and picked up shiat five days a week for 20 frakin' years...he deserves every dime he gets. Jesus, people saying mind boggling stupid shiat like this really make we want to cockpunch every Republican I meet, which mean I would have to cockpunch my Dad and I am pretty sure he can still kick my ass.

I'm not a Republican, but... no. Public pension plans in this country are farked beyond reason. The Oregonian had an article today about the number of employees who receive Oregon state employee pensions but ALSO work. Their pension DOES NOT DECREASE. MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE RETIRED FROM THE STATE, BUT CURRENTLY WORK STATE JOBS. Being able to walk and chew gum does not mean you deserve a retirement that exceeds the salary of the majority of workers in the state.

And, no, Wisconsin is not doing it right, either.


You mean like Texas Govenor Rick Perry?
 
2012-04-28 07:18:55 PM

Klippoklondike: Giltric: NJ teachers and NY cops pay into both ss and pension funds and get to collect both.


If you pay in you should get it.

Agreed. And what's wrong with being a garbage man? I realize it's not glamorous but occupations of all kinds deserve respect.


*fistbump*

Oh, and f*ck you, subby.
 
2012-04-28 07:19:16 PM
God forbid someone working and providing an essential service live comfortably. Every one knows about the "I got mine, fark you!" Mentality, but public sector employees get the mirrored "I didn't get mine,fark you!"

Just because the private sector feels they need to screw their employees it shouldn't transalte into screwing public employees.
 
2012-04-28 07:22:27 PM

cig-mkr: Is the military still doing the 20 and out?


The old saying went 30 if you like it 20 if you don't
 
2012-04-28 07:23:33 PM
fark THEM. TAX THEM UNTIL THEY SUBMIT!
 
2012-04-28 07:24:33 PM

insertsnarkyusername: What kind of society do we live in where it fine to declare unfunded wars and bail out private companies for crashing markets but we vilify a man who worked 20 years at a job most people wouldn't touch getting what he is owed?


One where a third of our populace went off the deep end in response to a black guy getting into the WH.
 
2012-04-28 07:25:35 PM

BSABSVR: Lillith: What do you mean "Instead" I am fairly sure that they do pay SS and will get it in time.

The municipalities in Colorado that belong to PERA (which is not all municipalities either), which is the state retirement fund do not pay SS tax (I think CalPers is the same). Assuming that you don't also work another job long enough to qualify fo SS, you don't get it.


And IIRC, if you do work at another job long enough to qualify for SS, anything you get is deducted from the amount you get from PERA.
 
2012-04-28 07:25:36 PM
I can't find anything online that shows a 37 year old trash collector eligible for a pension.

Anyone have a link?
 
2012-04-28 07:26:41 PM

Weaver95: so...I have a question. why is it bad when a union employee gets a cushy pension plan, but when a CEO rapes his company and investors to get an offensively large retirement package, nobody so much as blinks?

if we're going to say that retirement plans are out of control, then logic would suggest that we need to evaluate ALL pension plans and retirement payouts against some sort of objective standard. In that case, then we have to weigh the value of every employee in both public AND private sectors and determine what their work was worth and how much they should be permitted to have for retirement.

I mean I guess you could say it's different for public union employees vs anyone who retires from corporate america...but honestly, even private sector employees get f*cked over in retirement while CEO types can (and do and have) run entire multi-billion dollar operations into the ground at Mach 5, then retired on a payout of several million dollars. So even taking public sector retirees out of the picture, you STILL have wage slaves getting boned while CEOs walk away will millions and...nobody says anything about it? except of course if/when some lowly scrub son of a biatch gets one over on a company and makes it out of corporate america with something slightly better than the guy three cubes over managed to do. THAT's when we get outraged.

seriously...WTF man?


Hey Weaver, I got my macbook. Using it now. I went into a coffee house (like a ninja), found the fattest dude I could, and grabbed it and hauled ass! shiat was epic!
 
2012-04-28 07:27:17 PM

BritneysSpeculum: What municipality's pension plan allows you to retire at 37?


Some places you get a pension if you work there 20 years. I'm not sure of the specifics, so I don't know if you get it no matter when you retire, or only after "official" retirement age.
 
2012-04-28 07:28:22 PM
I saw philosopher kings. Those guys deserve pensions.
 
2012-04-28 07:28:48 PM

rnld: I can't find anything online that shows a 37 year old trash collector eligible for a pension.

Anyone have a link?


www.factspulledfrommyass.com
 
2012-04-28 07:35:08 PM
So, he's a job creator. Quit your QQ low-income-mitter and get a real job.
 
2012-04-28 07:35:53 PM
If any liberal or democrat does not acknowledge the problem of benefits to government employees they are partisan hacks. I have libbed as lib as lib can be libbed, but the way (some*) government employees are compensated is outrageous.

(*) public teachers are compensated far worse than, say, police. Anecdote: Neighbor of my coworker was a cop, retired, got more pay in retirement than he ever did as an active duty cop. WTF!!!!
 
2012-04-28 07:36:32 PM

coco ebert: I have never heard of this "not paying into SS" business. How widespread is this?


Most government employees (including everyone who works in education) here in Illinois do not pay into social security.
 
2012-04-28 07:36:48 PM
Social security is 12.4%. Half from the "employer" which is complete b.s.
Medicare is 2.9% for a total of 15.3%.

Governments cannot do anything right.
 
2012-04-28 07:38:21 PM
Also, in the Texas prison system, it is big to retire and collect and then get a job again As a prison guard.
 
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